/hobby/ - Hobby

The circus members IRL are so fucking effay.

>>47700
>its in fucking portuguese
Who would have guessed lmao.

>>47702
latam got subtitled functions too bruh i hope it gets leaked with the original voices

>>47684
Yeah I've been watching all the "indie cartoons" coming out this past decade and TADC has been the only remotely interesting one so far.

>>47704
For the plushies, there is a company that agressively promote them to litterally everything related to video games, there was a dozen studios promoting plushies every week since the start of the year at least

>>47704
Watch Interface and Punch Punch Forever

>>47704
>>47706
Also I'm pretty sure plushies are the main way Glitch makes money

I had no idea regular show returned last week, that show was my childhood and I watched it all the time in middle school and I had no idea it came back, I never saw this shit advertised, I only saw the first and second episode so far but it actually seems pretty solid so far, I hope pops does not return to earth though because I don't want them to ruin the ending of the original series.

>>47704
The only other "Indie" show I liked was RWBY and even then that went to shit too (even if I still like the show).

>>47700
Kek. I told you it was bad
>4chin's /co/
I only lurk there for fanart and memes, and even then only because of TADC activity being high there.
Speaking of, anyone have a link to the NEW co-booru. I lost the link and can't find t.

>>47698
Gooseworx had no hand in that. I just feel bad for them. Twitter reaction to the leaks was liberals talking shit.

>>47681
>>47684
you know the show will be stenchy trucker ass if even the fucking rick n morty pilot had better pace and character introduction with less than 32 minutes at hand

>>47704
im ngl glitch indie shows are 80% bleak as fuck, story is barebones and they follow the same boring "commit arson" type of humor but their fans SWEAR its hype because a quirkchungus character has le dark backstory

actual experimental indie animation gems are underrated asf sadly

>>47683
ever so pervasive support le small businesses mentality

>>47712
https://co.llection.pics/post/list

>>47712
>The only other "Indie" show I liked was RWBY

"What? They picked RWBY over our show?!"

"Calm down, Grif. People are allowed to have opinions."

"Yeah, as long as their opinions aren't fucking garbage! That show was TERRIBLE!"

"Yeah, but, I mean…we don't really have room to talk, what with the last few seasons and all."

"That's bullshit and you know it. We gave people a great show for 15 YEARS before we ever shit the bed. RWBY was a bland action slopfest the moment it hit the internet!"

"Hey, don't talk that way about Monty's dream show!"

"Look, Simmons, I miss Monty, too, but a bad show is a bad show. Even HE didn't know where he was going with it."

"Whatever, you're just an asshole, Grif."

"I'm just saying, I know a good show when I see it."

"…"

"…"

"You seen that new Gameoverse show?"

"Oh, yeah, I thought it was neat. They got Jschlatt in it."

"Yeah, Jschlatt's pretty cool."

its important to look at the art books for shows you watch so you can imagine a better show in your head

tbf i dont think she should have died but at least something should have happened like she should have lost an eye or something. at the same time anne definitively dying but her memories being put in a clone is a crazy swing for the last 10 minutes of the show though

>>47704
between the ages of 16 and 21 kiddy power-of-friendship storybook tumblr stuff like steven universe and undertale was genuinely the only thing giving me joy through most of my days. most of the time i wasn't actively watching/playing them i was interacting with the fanbase because it was a way to be in touch with that feeling without having to watch the same thing 300 times. it's all too remote for me to understand in retrospect but basically for a kind of weak-willed soul these unassuming shows become a kind of necessary panacea that ends up engulfing most of our existence. that's why they are so popular (and glitchslop and its adult fanbase is really only a continuation of that). i am not kidding or exaggerating although i am obviously mentally ill.

>>47717
>slopfest
Grif would never say such modern buzzword garbage!
>RWBY was a bland action slopfest the moment it hit the internet!"
Take that back swine!
Seriously though, the show is very over-hated, especially given that up until that point… RvB wasn't much more than action "slop" too. I will say it has declined (severely in the case of V7 and 8).

>>47714
Thanks for the link!

>>47728
>the show is very over-hated
Honestly it's not, but it is hated for the wrong reasons. The main problems with RWBY are that the characters are one-note, it's full of clichés, the dialogue is awkward and stiff, it lacks focus, and looks/sounds awful in ways that aren't excused by its budget (especially now that we have much higher quality web animation to prove it).
But certainly the problems with RWBY are NOT that the wrong ships got made canon or that it's too dark and edgy or that it's not dark and edgy enough or that people's favorite characters got "slandered" or whatever. You kinda have to feel for the creators because at this point their most devoted audience are people who care way too much about all that shit.
And seriously, if RWBY was "action slopfest" that would actually be a good thing. Anything to make those bitches stop talking. They just keep talking and talking.

i'm watching tadc and yeah it's pretty good. the animation is fantastic, the mood is immaculately constructed, and it's genuinely funny at times which is honestly rare for high-budget internet content like this.
but like murder drones, which is the only other glitch thing i've liked, it feels like it can't just focus on its actual strengths because the creators are too set on their conventional idea of what a good story looks like, but the "normal story" parts are the worst by far. the dramatic writing of the show is not good, and every scene that's just the characters talking is awful. the problem is not that it has a real plot or even these sincere themes around mental illness, it occasionally does a good job of integrating that with the humor and the visual style, it's just the execution that falters. it should either be much lighter on dialogue or at least written with more refinement than "let's sit down and talk about our feelings". it's tolerable in the first few episodes but quickly gets unbearable. it brought the show's score down considerably for me.
and like yeah i get it, it wouldn't be nearly as popular if it didn't have drama and therapyspeak, but you'd hope that "indie animation" would be able to be more adventurous than that instead of ceding to the same pressures that make mainstream animation so boring. and if glitch's focus from now on is on even blander and less original pilots like gameoververse that's probably a sign that it won't get any better than this.

anyone tried lastman?
pretty amazing imo, the plot progress very fast, fight are short but impactful, style is neat, music gripping
some cyberpunk vibe in the universe but more 10 years in the future and not neon, some fantasy element, good cynicism, overall great

Enjoyed the TADC finale. Too bad all those millions Glitch is making from it is going to fund mediocre indieslop. Truly a lightning in a bottle.

>>47756
>indieslop
>thingslop
the only quality entertainment is call of duty
thing can't be in the same level of what AAA mines out there produces

>>47757
>going insane over modern lingo
All other Glitch shows have nothing interesting to say nor do they even at least play with interesting concepts. Literally the only thing they've got going for them is being made by the same studio behind TADC and the whole "support small bus– indie creators no matter what" mentality.

The most recent one is some bullshit about fucking video games, the whole thing is something that should've come out at least 20 years ago, not today. Finger on the fucking pulse!

>>47759
>modern lingo
nah you're just gay for liking videoslop
what's next your going defend audioslop

>>47760
>doubling down on the insanity
Millennial imageboard dwellers are so fucking pathetic, lmao.

>>47761
Memento mori, it's gonna happen to us too.

>>47761
you're just a like eat mediaslop and not do tax maxing

>>47747
>NOT that the wrong ships got made canon
The only ship that got truly made canon was wrong because it not only got done like shit, but makes no thematic sense and writing it in actively damaged the writing. Take it out and a third of the issues with Volumes 6-9 disappear, that's how bad it is.
>the dialogue is awkward and stiff
Not really? Some of the 'motivational' moments don't land, but most of the dialogue isn't terrible.
>looks/sounds awful in ways
…You didn't watch any of the later Volumes did you? I LOATHE Volume 7 and 8 and definitely have criticisms of fight choreography and nerfing, but the animation has only improved over the years (as have sound effects) and although I have a soft-spot for Poser (and prefer the poser designs) the work with Maya has objectively improved. Most of the music is still up to par too, it's pretty difficult to live up to the impact the original OST did.
>full of clichés
That doesn't mean anything; like tropes, everything has cliches, there are cliches for things that go against 'common' cliches at this point.
>characters are one-note
You clearly haven't watched the majority of the show. For the first three Volumes, most of the main cast was developed and the secondary/tertiary characters like Team CFVY were one-note, but later on secondary characters (like the Ace Ops) were more fleshed out. The problem is A) how they were fleshed out And B) characters like Ren, Nora, Yang, Blake and even Weiss, being degraded, or like Oscar being pointless.
>people's favorite characters got "slandered"
Well to be fair, it's often for a good reason, character assassination by the writers basically fucks over story consistency. the >>>/anime/8783 RT thread has a lot about that regarding people like Adam basically made from an extremist revolutionary into this pathetic incel, or how Blake went from a person with a 'dark past' she wants to make up for her mistakes (and still makes new ones), to a literal nepo-baby island princess that LARPed as a Revolutionary and then got cold feet. Or Yang going from a brash brawler with a hidden bit of intelligence and protectiveness over her sister to a literal lesbian biker caricature. The only way to make her more blatant a butch-dyke would be to have her shave down one side of her head and literally eat a carpet a la Rocko's Modern Life. It's tiresome.
>They just keep talking and talking.
Eh, I admit that's true for later Volumes. Blame the death of Monty for that, dude's choreography was amazing.

>>47770
Going to be completely honest, I don't care. I don't care what new drama some twats drudged up. Unless he was screaming slurs and actually promoting neo-nazi rhetoric, Kovach's worst crime is being a liberal, which is meaningless in the grand-scheme of things.

>>47777
>7777
What a fucking waste of trips. Goddamn it.

So I guess in the end, the moral of TADC is "transitioning really would have saved her"

I watched the movie in theaters because I felt like having fun with the experience. It was okay, but honestly, compared to the rest of the series it felt extremely rushed and contrived in many places. No joke, most Caine-centric/Episode 8 based fanfics wrote far superior story endings.

>>47780
Spoilers:
1) That's stupid and gay (both literally and metaphorically) because the main fun of Digital Circus was the mix of it being essentially a video-game isekai with an ever-present god. Jax's shit should have been an episode or two at most, instead this side-character is given way too much focus for a very meh ending.
2) It's kinda contradictive since his real life self made friends, is surrounded by support and care, wasn't stuck in limbo for years and did not transition and is apparently happy. AND the fact that Caine himself states that their bodies are based on their mindfiles. Zooble reflects their body dysphoria by letting them change parts to find what they like. Gangle is the whole 'happy face masking depression' schtick made literal, Ragatha is soft and therefore can't hurt people, while being easily hurt herself, Scratch is a bitch etc. If Jax was actually trans/gender dysphoric, his body would probably default to a more feminine form at the start.

TL;DR: Jax isn't a poor widdle trans-girl in denial, he's just a fucking asshole with literal daddy issues and ineptitude. You don't need to be trans to have those.

>>47777
It's a shame that Gen A see nothing in highbrow works like this.

>>47778
nu.

>>47786
>nu.
The trips are mine, I didn't realize and borked it.

>Gen A see nothing in highbrow works like this.
Not even necessarily high-brow, people can't just enjoy things, they have to overanalyze everything, yet simultaneously have very shallow takes.

>>47788
It was more fun when people just did their best to do the voice with a voice changer or whatever if needed

>>47789
People still do that, some people are just good at voice acting and animating.

>>47781
>AND the fact that Caine himself states that their bodies are based on their mindfiles.
It is strongly implied, that making all of the bodies like this way was a mistake, because it directly exposes everyone's greatest personal hangups. If the recurring mirror motif, the shadows of themself in the torture scene and the comment about having "masculine" ears and tail (literal dysmorphia) are any indication, their body would at the same time be based on their mind and express the essence of something, which Jax could never get over.

Whatever their issues are, we see coldness towards others and wanton violence being the main coping mechanisms, which only begin to break down, when the others more heavily push back and become unified against Caine. The state of mind in which they press the red button must then be an intense fear of whatever they are failing to repress at this time. Because i believe the mental timeline of Jax does include memories of living on the streets after the traumatic event, the visions we are shown wouldn't indicate concrete fear of living through it again, but more likely a "flight response" to the real world. I don't see daddy issues or even abject poverty conferring the same kind of existential terror, while being mostly absent from the virtual world, hence having deep-seated issues with something like gender seems the most likely to me.

For in all of the variation and expressiveness in the digital bodies, there remains a conspicuous abence of most indicators of gender, which Jax must be aware of on some level. In fairness i did only watch most of the episodes after seeing the discussion in this thread, but the introduction of the maid outfit really sold me on this idea. For one it reflects again how Jax would actually be capable of making their appearance more feminine and they ostensibly did actively want to wear it at some point (if i correctly interpreted the vignette from e9). Maid outfits and crossdressing in general are also the subject of a well-known trope, where only someone insecure in their own gender identity would be uncomfortable with them. Crucially we see a Jax in their head wear it ironically, which would conversely signal a strong sense of masculinity.

>>47794
>making all of the bodies like this way was a mistake, because it directly exposes everyone's greatest personal hangups.
Yes, that's my point. Caine doesn't understand the nuances of human minds, he interprets things fairly literally. If Jax was actually trans then it would be a lot more blatant because Caine doesn't do subtle.
>the comment about having "masculine" ears and tail (literal dysmorphia)
That was just a joke. It's a meme; "You may not think it but 'X' is Peak Masculinity". Nothing to do with dysmorphia.
>the shadows of themself in the torture scene
What? The shadows in the 'torture' scenes are Pomni, Kaufmo and Ribbit, people he considers his friends, its about him being exposed and open to others, and a fear of being laughed at and tormented by his friends, thus why he pushes people away, that isn't trans exclusive, not even close.
Also the Mirror motif is mostly regarding Pomni and her dissociation with her cartoony body rather than dissociation with being male or female. Humans don't look like that, ergo dissociation, not sexuality related.
And again Real Jax didn't transition and Zooble is evidence of Caine taking dysmorphic mental issues very literally.
>The state of mind in which they press the red button must then be an intense fear of whatever they are failing to repress at this time
The fear is that he and everyone else in the Circus are real people, because it would mean that his toxic behavior drove at least two people to ego-death (as far as he knows).
>don't see daddy issues or even abject poverty conferring the same kind of existential terror
See the above, the terror is consequence of his actions being real, because he's a toxic asshole that doesn't own up to his shit, thus why he tells Pomni that he wouldn't care if she abstracted and that they were never friends, because allowing that would mean admitting to himself that he's a shitty person. Being trans is irrelevant to it.
>there remains a conspicuous abence of most indicators of gender
Because Caine, of his own volition disliked sex and other non-child-friendly aspects and therefore eliminated it. They're all toybox caricatures, sexual traits aren't going to exist for any of them, even someone who has a literal wife like Kinger.
>the introduction of the maid outfit really sold me on this idea
The maid outfit crossdress meme is a gag straight out of anime, literally since Gangle is the one that suggested it and they're a massive weeb.

If anything at most this would be Jax being a crossdresser, which is not inherently linked with being transgender. His identity crisis was not having an identity, and not knowing what constituted an identity, so he probably experimented with cross dressing, tried on different personas, and never felt comfortable as any of them because he's just "playing a character" which seems validated by his behavior in the episode where they all get guns. Jax wants to stay in the circus because his identity is clearer, he is now an antagonistic cartoon character so his persona only needs to be that, there is no longer a real "self" he has to create, Caine made the choice when the form was given to him, he just has to play the part but even then he's projecting his inner turmoil of a real self he rejects onto his digital self, there is no other reason he has to be antagonistic as he chooses to be and he knows it

Obviously at the end we get the Creators confirmation about transness but within the story we barely get anything even remotely indicating this and the majority is from the extremely rushed dump in Episode 9. On top of that the resulting message is almost anti-trans.
>"You had a neglectful and absent father, an abusive mother, and you ran away from home because you think you might have accidentally killed your mom and can't get closure about it? Become a girl! That will solve everything… Except it doesn't!"
It makes no fucking sense because his problem is that he can't cope with being loved due to trauma and repeatedly rejects people that show affection to him (hence what he says about Ragatha when stargazing). It's like having a plot thread about a person accepting they're gay rather than internalize it, only for it to turn out that they're not gay after all and it was just misattributed mental-issues.

>>47796
>If Jax was actually trans then it would be a lot more blatant because Caine doesn't do subtle.
>And again Real Jax didn't transition and Zooble is evidence of Caine taking dysmorphic mental issues very literally.
You're projecting the cliche that trans people have the "mind of the opposite gender" and taking it for granted in their self perception, when reppers can see themselves on a wide spectrum from failed male to "femboy". IMO for Jax to see themself as a woman at this time would be a genuine feat of cognitive dissonance. I'm also curious why you think their room looks the way it does.
>The maid outfit crossdress meme is a gag straight out of anime
Duh, that's why i said it's a trope. The point is men in anime will crossdress confidently as a joke, while otokonokos will blush like an anime girl, hence Jax is an otokonoko according to anime law.

>shadows in the 'torture' scenes are Pomni, Kaufmo and Ribbit
Right, i don't know why i saw something different.

>Humans don't look like that, ergo dissociation, not sexuality related.
<I look…. stupid.
is delivered with the mildest of disappointments, like if Jax had possibly already been dissociating before.
<God i look stupid.
contradicts your interpretation, since at that point Jax should have already gotten used to their body like the others.

>The fear is that he and everyone else in the Circus are real people
True for the breakdown in e8, doubtful for choosing to stay in the virtual world. Fear of and regret about being an abuser would be thematically consistent with the flashbacks also, yet it's not something that would be remedied by being trapped in a simulation. We know three things about their state of mind:

• They were right in thinking it was a trap.
  
• The possibility of returning to the real world made them care about something.
  
• They didn't return to their previous coping pattern afterwards.
  

It's pretty clear to me that Jax ultimately does care and engages in a cycle of bullying as constant distraction, to avoid facing any of it. The fact e7 ends with them more or less breaking out of it makes me suspect they did start caring after seeing the others as actual people, which they must have accepted when seriously considering the notion of escape and didn't renege on after the reveal. I conclude, that the thing, which drove them to convince themself of the button being a trap, must have been something else: Not something that hinged on the reality of the virtual world, but on the prospect of returning to the real world.

>It makes no fucking sense because his problem is that he can't cope with being loved due to trauma and repeatedly rejects people that show affection to him
Both can be true at the same time and it would make sense for one to be the cause of the other (like with a gay person turns toxic male plot https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moonlight_(2016_film)?useskin=vector). "Transitioning won't fix your problems" discourse is futile either way.
>His identity crisis was not having an identity
Again, in no way does this run counter to the trans experience.

>>47797
It's not cliche, it's science. Gender Dysphoria is a defining component of being trans, reflected in various levels of brain difference seen in MRI scans. There's multiple research papers on it. I won't get further into that on /hobby/ as I frankly have no interest in further discussing that aspect; The point is inconsistent writing.
>reppers can see themselves on a wide spectrum from failed male to "femboy".
And that's stupid because it's the same thing pretending to be special and different from one another; new-age terminology to split hairs on 'effeminate male', instead of just owning the latter. The spectrum is bourgeoisie psyche-bullshit.
>the room
his room isn't definitively effeminate in this day and age. It's at best childish and reminds me of a Pre-school playroom; bright colors and friendly playful motifs. And we don't see the entire room until Episode 9. Would Ribbits room mean they're a hippy? or actually a frog?
>men in anime will crossdress confidently as a joke, while otokonokos will blush like an anime girl
1) You mean bishounen, not otokonok; the latter are effeminate males that usually already dress as girls. Bishie's may blush because its also a gag about 'oh how pretty they are' but its not an indication that they want to be a woman or are secretly gay except in hentai.
2) You've seen too many slice of life moe anime. Most anime have non-effeminate males find it embarrassing, because it's so weird. This applies IRL too, for example there were some streamers who lost a bet and had to wear a maid costume on stream, and were mad about having to do that. A man being confident and unblushing about it is a subtrope, where-in they're so masculine that any effeminate aspect is utterly lost, OR its because its for a disguise or something. Jaune Arc crossdresses for the Beacon Dance because he lost a bet, he did it to cheer up Pyrrha even in spite of being embarrassed. That doesn't make him gay or a femboy.

TL;DR: People react differently to things like that and it could just as easily be Jax annoyed at having the jokes and gags of his 'bugs-bunny-esque' role turned on him, i.e. being a glass cannon, dishing out pranks and 'jokes' but unable to take them.

>delivered with the mildest of disappointments
That's an extreme reach, I'm pretty sure Zooble thinks they look stupid too, Pomni also dislikes how she looks etc.
>God i look stupid
Again, nothing to do with transness, and more to do with how he's feeling bad about what happened between him and Pomni in the same episode, when he's obviously trying and failing to dissociate himself with having an attachment to her, ergo why she is among the shadows that later torment him. Dissociating from people and dissociating with your sex is completely different. Yes, you can have both, but we see very little indication of the latter (in fact we see none of that in the show prior to Episode 9)
>doubtful for choosing to stay in the virtual world.
He literally chooses the option to stay and even in Episode 9 doesn't want to go back, afraid of what happened between him and his mom and the consequences. The Circus and the caricature he plays at being "I'm the funny one!" is a convenient escape.
>it's not something that would be remedied by being trapped in a simulation
No, but I never said that, it's a cope, the same way crack-whores do blow to forget their horrible life; it's an escapism, a destructive coping method for his issues and the worse he gets the more he doubles down. Again not even close to a trans exclusive issue.
>The possibility of returning to the real world made them care about something
It made him afraid, he actively did not want to participate or engage it and thus disbelieved its validity. He went along with it because he's not a sociopath and has conflicting feelings, ergo why he rejects friends as a coping mechanism and not because he genuinely doesn't care. Again, being trans or not changes none of this.
>didn't return to their previous coping pattern afterwards.
He never had a chance to, because Caine got tired of all the humans being convoluted fucks and started making adventures in anger. After Caine is killed Jax goes right back to self-isolating and being a pissant to others around him.
>both can be true
Not my point, it's utterly vague and disconnected to the rest of the character we've seen up to this point. The closest we get is the Maid Dress thing and that's a gag that is very much up for interpretation when its used. Being trans and Jax's issues are utterly disconnected in how its portrayed. Even the shit about Ribbit giving him her bow is vague because its little different from a dude giving a girl his jacket or sweater or something.
It comes off as a last minute self-insert when until Episode 6/7 Jax was a one-note asshole background character. He's still not very interesting. Literally any of the cast is superior. Fucking Zooble is more interesting and I dislike Zooble as much as I dislike Jax.
>run counter to the trans experience.
The trans experience is "a bad home life and an inability to open up to friends means you should transition?" Because that's the conclusion especially with what Gooseworx posted right after the Episode aired on youtube. It's jarring and dumb. Without Episode 9s disconnected insertions, almost all the backstory for Jax is fairly universal. Inadequacy in the face of your father, parents having difficulty separating their children from themselves and the other parent, fear of being vulnerable with others, fear of consequences for actions etc.
It's basically the general plot of a coming of age story for a large number of people. Being trans just gets slapped on top but doesn't intermix enough to make sense, given the rest of the series.

>>47819
I just don't see what is the point in arguing something which is so blatantly stated by the actual show. Even if we ignore Gooseworx and say what she says outside the show is not canon, the final episode makes it INCREDIBLY clear that Jax is trans. What is your alternative explanation for the things presented? Being serious now, not just like, "uhh it doesn't mean anything".

>>47820
I see it as an argument about the text in isolation and by extension on whether the interpretation Gooseworx intended was well executed.

>>47819
>brain difference
Agree to disagree on that pseudo-scientific, gender essentialist bullshit.
>The spectrum is bourgeoisie psyche-bullshit.
Whatever you want to call it, a lot of trans people have been vocal about indulging in hypermasculinity or other things as a cover before their transition.
>his room isn't definitively effeminate in this day and age
Compare it to what we see of Kaufmo's room, which is mostly just colorful. Apart from the color scheme, the amount of furniture is also extremely girlcoded (i'm reading Kanon rn where the mc remarks on sth like this).
>That's an extreme reach, I'm pretty sure Zooble thinks they look stupid too, Pomni also dislikes how she looks etc.
What i meant was, that Jax seemed only mildly displeased, far less horrified of their appearance than what we are lead to believe the others were (Pomni excepted).

>Dissociating from people and dissociating with your sex is completely different.
True. For one thing i don't think people disassociating from outside circumstances tend to get hung up on their mirror image. And while the tail thing cannot definitively connected to any characteristic of Jax, it's a pretty obvious meta-textual nod to body dysmorphia.
>he actively did not want to participate or engage it and thus disbelieved its validity.
<YOU DIRTY LIAR! YOU SCUMBAG! You- You made me- [hisses through teeth] You got in my head. You just- You just lie about everything, don't you?!
Getting them to participate took barely any convincing. And based on the emotional fallout, they did seem to genuinely consider the idea.
>Even the shit about Ribbit giving him her bow is vague because its little different from a dude giving a girl his jacket or sweater or something.
Why then would they be mortified of being seen with the ribbon or saying Ribbit is reading into things, if there wasn't anything more to it. Is the notion of having a deep interpersonal connection to anyone supposed to be inherently offensive to someone with trust issues? If it was about anything Jax explicitly said, no reading would be required.

>After Caine is killed Jax goes right back to self-isolating and being a pissant to others around him.
Do they return to treating the others as disposable characters in an imaginary world though? I think not.
>Jax was a one-note asshole background character
Up to e5 they were just sort of… there. Then they get progressively more nuanced interactions with the rest of the cast and, despite the character dump in e9 ruining the narrative economics, i think it's fitting, that it happens when everyone else has pretty much already wrapped up their arc.
>The trans experience is "a bad home life and an inability to open up to friends means you should transition?"
I do personally believe masculinity as a concept to be unsalvagable, because it frequently creates, amplifies and fastens these kinds of issues. For Jax specifically, i think this experience just neatly slots into queerness and any identity except transfem feels contrived given the remaining characterization. While your position of rejecting anything Jax hasn't stated themself appears solid, it is equally hard to disprove the trans interpretation and i would argue it leaves the whole far more indeterminate than does accepting this one leap of characterization.

Since this is an enormous post, I want to preface this that none of this is written in anger, with malicious intent or discrimination; I am discussing a topic seriously.

>>47820
It's NOT blatantly stated by the actual show, that's my point. It's blatantly stated by the Author OUTSIDE the show AFTER it finished and alluded to/sortakindamaybe shown in Episode 9 but in a way that is both contradictive and extremely hamfisted. The final episode is NOT clear because there's no direct connection between "being trans" and Jax's issues, as all these issues are fairly universal and are not directly related to transgender problems. Being anti-social and trans is not causational or even correlational. Even if accepting Ep9's vagueness, that still ignores crossdressers exist as a separate thing from transgender. Gooseworx has made shitposts and various comics related to TADC they are not canon, or are disproven or contradict things in the show. Examples off the top my head: Musical numbers in the show and No ships will be canon: we get a musical number in Episode 8 and Zooble/Gangle outright confirmed in the end credits of Episode 9.
>not just like, "uhh it doesn't mean anything".
Are you joking? I wrote multiple paragraphs elaborating that outside of Episode 9 nothing in the show is directly trans or hinting at it specifically. TL;DR: Being mad about the person you bully forcing you into a maid dress as a joke isn't even a gag typical of trans characters but of straight males in anime being humiliated. Either we take it as the gag it is meant to be, or we take it seriously, in which case this is fucked up. Everything else we see is clearly cope and escapism.
In Episode 9 we get a lore dump and even then, without Gooseworx's twitter post, it could as easily have been a case of crossdressing.

>>47821
This. Gooseworx wrote an okay story, but making it about 'being trans' immediately makes it worse because it lacks the focus required. Zooble was already a character that fit this whole "uncomfortable with my body" idea and is the character the has the most problems with themselves. We see that they're also an asshole, just not as actively as Jax and while I may dislike their pettiness, it at least DEMONSTRATES issues that can be interpreted as trans while ALSO remaining vague enough to resonate with non-trans people as well without contradiction/disconnect. If they did the same shit but made Zooble the focus I wouldn't have had an issue with "accept yourself" as the conclusion, because it would make sense. The ending would still be ass, because Episode 9 is clearly rushed as fuck, but that would at least be consistent.

>>47822
>Gender essentialist
Gender is based on biological and material realities. Our bodies and environments influence our identities in general. Marx talks about this. To state otherwise goes against material dialectics. Gender essentialism would be to say that a woman can never act like or have male traits and vice versa, in which case by stating that all these vague aspects of Jax MUST mean he is trans, you're implying that some effeminate aspects MUST make a man actually transgender. Dysphoria comes in when the brain is incongruent with the biological sex of the person, which is why I say that if Jax was trans then the body program of Caine would make him a girl from the start, since it reads internal thoughts literally (thus Zooble being able to mix and match parts, or Gangle's masking).
Regarding Brains:
https://www.pnas.org/content/113/14/E1966
https://www.nature.com/articles/s41598-017-17352-8
<Two groups are perfectly separable when considering both variables but inseparable when considering only one variable at a time.
<“Our findings suggest that the neuroanatomical signature of transgenderism is related to brain areas processing the perception of self and body ownership, whereas homosexuality seems to be associated with less cerebral sexual differentiation.”
https://www.cam.ac.uk/research/news/males-and-females-differ-in-specific-brain-structures
Even if different male and female brains can have male or female traits doesn't mean that these differences do not exist but merely that some men or women have brain aspects more like the opposite sex, and there is correlation that those which have the most traits more reflective of the opposite sex tend to have dysphoria.
>a lot of trans people have been vocal about indulging in hypermasculinity or other things as a cover before their transition.
And a lot of non-trans people also do that, some effeminate or gay men will act macho because they're insecure, some normal men will do that too, ergo the termin toxic masculinity. Tomboys can act macho because they don't like to be girly, despite also remaining women and not identifying as otherwise. Again its too vague. The most direct thing we see of transness is Jax's freak out with Ribbit and the bow and the maid dress moment with Gangle, but even then that can be interpreted in many ways; With Gangle it can be seen as a straight crossdresser being 'deviant'. With Ribbit the bow could be as simple as a friend giving something personal and Jax not wanting to look uncool. The fact that even these things are vague enough to be open ended, makes the conclusion irritating. What's the point of being vague if you then go "lol akchually he wuz trans" afterwards anyway? Either commit or don't.
>what we see of Kaufmo's room
What we see is a clowns room, so is his entire identity that of a clown? Is Ribbit's room an indication that she's actually a frog at heart? The rooms aren't as much a reflection of them as their bodies are.
>girlcoded
This is gender essentialist. I am a fairly masculine dude, but I like some aesthetics that machos would consider 'girly'. There is no 'coded' to this. There are definitive aspects that are 'traditionally' female and male. Wearing a women's dress is obviously a female thing, but that doesn't necessarily make someone female for wearing it, or want to be female. Same as heavy athletics; heavy physical activity boosts testosterone production in women far above average which impacts body and mindset.
>Jax seemed only mildly displeased, far less horrified of their appearance
When he first arrives he's pretty damn frantic just like everyone else we see arrive. The disappointment is more that he finally sees himself and its neither good or bad, again really vague.
>it's a pretty obvious meta-textual nod to body dysmorphia
Actually it was a joke because the animators literally forgot to add the tail to the model in previous episodes. The fact that its never brought up again when he gets his tail back also indicates this.
>Getting them to participate took barely any convincing.
Jax is projecting here, but again this isn't trans exclusive. He didn't want to believe it, thus his panic and hitting the Red Button, but humans are contradictive and the other part of him that wanted to believe feels played and in conflict, and since he avoids responsibility for his actions, he projects it onto Caine and claims he's fucking with his head.
>being seen with the ribbon or saying Ribbit is reading into things
Because it's a girly object. I suppose a better parallel would be an girly-girl wearing something masculine and unladylike. Yes we know NOW that this was supposed to be 'trans' but at the time of viewing I just thought he was being a dumbass, because its not exclusive.
>notion of having a deep interpersonal connection to anyone supposed to be inherently offensive to someone with trust issues
Yes. I've had moments like this and again, I'm not trans or ever felt that way. You share something personal to someone and then agonize over what secret you've spilled and if it was a mistake, which can result in aggressive responses or distancing from someone. Nothing Jax even confides to Ribbit would prove that his issues with his mom were "I was effeminate" but merely that he was both too much and too little like his father. Being considered less masculine than his father isn't an indication ; in fact its a far more plausible explanation for his machoism than simply self-denial over being trans. Obviously you can have both, but my point is that these 'indicators' in Jax's backstory don't flow into him being trans, but eddy around it.
>return to treating the others as disposable characters in an imaginary world though
He doesn't 'cause his spiral hits rock bottom, it's just indication that his copium has run dry and he chose suicide over fixing things.
>it happens when everyone else has pretty much already wrapped up their arc.
Everyone else didn't get nearly as much wank as Jax and it wasn't something that needed to take up an entire MOVIE. And frankly Gangle and Ragatha never conclude their arcs, it's just left on the wayside.
>it frequently creates, amplifies and fastens these kinds of issues.
Masculinity has nothing to do with it. If you think girls can't be as toxic and create issues of bad home lives then I have a Bridge to sell you. THIS is gender essentialism; to lay all these issues on 'masculinity' is to remove all culpability from the opposite sex, it's the reason domestic abuse initiated by women isn't taken seriously as an issue.
>this experience just neatly slots into queerness and any identity except transfem feels contrived
I repeat; straight male crossdressers exist, effeminate, non-crossdressing males exist. Hell even people that aren't effeminate and are just confused youths can experience this, people who aren't macho can experience this, and in fact do so in far greater numbers purely through statistics; trans and gay people being an extreme minority of the population. The fact that such experiences are fairly universal and have existed since well before transgenderism was a thing would prove such. Also the ending where Jax's real life counterpart didn't transition.
>equally hard to disprove the trans interpretation
I'm not disproving it. Goosewonx confirmed it, my point is that its poorly written at best. Looking into this some more, Jax being trans was so random that his voice actor wasn't even aware of his issues until after Episode 5 and before that simply thought of him as a sleazeball character. It's such a massive leap that it feels very much like Gooseworx tried to do a Self-Insert but also not and ended up making a confused as fuck conclusion.

Jax shouldn't have been the focus of the episode and so much is left up in the air or concluded in a way that leaves a bad taste in my mouth (not even about jax either) that it's just a mess. Caine's character arc is basically "lobotomize yourself lol! Fuck your agency, be a servant to man!" Zooble and Gangle may as well be wallpaper or NPCs and Ragatha's one moment with Pomni feels so disjointed that I swear it must have been "oh yeah we need to acknowledge her, lets have them hug and walk away from each other for 5 minutes and stare strangely.

>>47820
>Even if we ignore Gooseworx
i agree that jax's gender is hinted at since episode 5, but also gooseworx said that she didn't plan on explicitly exploring jax's gender until very late so everyone who perceives it as a hamfisted plot point is right and not just being transphobic, this seems very obvious and i'm not sure why people are so defensive over it

>>47832
>why people are so defensive over it
Because idpol topics seem to hijack most people's minds on both right and left wing. On 8/co/ there's a retard who cannot shut the fuck up about "muh transhumanistz" to the point that even the BO banned him multiple times, despite the board generally being more right-wing by userbase orientation. The fact of the matter is the "trans" subplot is poorly done, Jax is a fucking dirtbag and Ragatha and the other girls crying over his abstraction would be equivalent to abuse victims crying over the incel that tormented them for years. The 'trans' part feels more like an excuse than an actual plot.
Jax aside there's just so much else that sucks.

• Caine basically engages in another of Gooseworx's fetishes and essentially lobotomizes himself after the absolute cringe of the "social media exploration"
  
• Gangle's character arc goes nowhere and even regresses
  
• Ragatha's arc cuts off very awkwardly
  
• Kinger basically never speaks to Caine, despite being his 'father' essentially
  
• Pomni is almost as blank a character as she was at the start and even Gooseworx admits to having removed a huge portion of her character and their anger issues.

>>47834
>Jax is a fucking dirtbag
tbh I also don't understand why do people find issue with this. I think maybe it's because people who watch cartoons have infected their minds with quasi-pedagogical "after-school special" cautionary tale trash for babies and can't conceive of a show or movie portraying actual emotional conflict. Jax being an unlikeable dispshit was a good change of course, if abrupt, but it also was playing to her strengths by writing something that is actually personally meaningful, AND also something that was actually alluding to the mild existential horror because Jax's issue is literally "being judged by other people". It sounds fucking corny but it felt honest, it stood out from the rest of the indie animation slop and I appreciate what she was trying to do here. The only thing that I (maybe) lament is that gooseworx attempted to write an ensemble cast, even though she fucking sucks at leveraging lots of characters at once, when she actually wanted a more personal story all along, but I guess tweens wouldn't have clicked on the thumbnail if it was an introspective character study on the cartoon bunny. And also goddamn she's also fucking ass at building tension because she blew her load 10 minutes into a 55-minute episode. I hope whatever gooseworx does next she limits herself to a smaller cast, clearly what she does best.

>>47836 (me)
>And also goddamn she's also fucking ass at building tension because she blew her load 10 minutes into a 55-minute episode.
As an aside it reminded me of the avengers endgame movie (boss baby vibes, i know i know), in that for the first 10 minutes it's just the main cast moping around dealing with grief and finding out that killing purple shrek would bring no closure and i wondered "what would it be like if the whole 3-hour movie was this", well i guess gooseworks delivered on that little indulgence, thank you gooseworx

>>47781
>It's kinda contradictive since his real life self made friends, is surrounded by support and care, wasn't stuck in limbo for years and did not transition and is apparently happy.
this is a pet peeve of mine because i understand that the digital circus cookies are literal ghosts of your past stuck in an unresolvable limbo reliving their sins over and over with no means of closure or self-actualization because they are fucking ghosts and jax had it the worst because his ghostly snapshot was taken at a particularly terrible time, being haunted forever by the possibility of being a murderer, on top of not being able to transition proper because he's actually not an embodied entity, but since it's a show for kids, caine just shows them the instagram timeline of their real counterparts and everything's fine and they are all happy

>>47836
Because the conclusion of the story has his abuse victims cry over him and nothing gets actually resolved. That's why him being a dirtbag doesn't work.
> cautionary tale trash
No, but a story is supposed to have a point. Even IHNMS on which this is based has a small human victory to it; Ted won, even if he suffers eternally, AM can no longer torment him like before. Despite the much darker ending, it has way more to say about the valor of sacrifice, camaraderie in hardship and the unbreakable human spirit. TADC basically has them accept their fate, but at the same time, they have a happy ending where everything is okay in the end.

Like I get that "In reel laif" people will ignore or miss suicide flags and not pry enough and yadda yadda, but this isn't real life, it's fiction, suspension of disbelief and wishing for better is part of that.

As an aside; It still seems incredibly strange to me that Ribbit was wandering around the circus alone after Jax kicked her out. They were shown to be friends, but why did Kaufmo shut her out and make no attempt to talk, help, or even just socialize so she wouldn't be alone? Even Ragatha seemed to be ignorant.

It takes one fucking conversation
>"What happened?"
< "I had a fight with Jax."
>"Why?"
<"It's personal, I don't want to talk about it."
>"Oh well, screw him."

AND THAT'S IT. And why show her hanging out with both Jax and Kaufmo? Where did the compassionate and kind Ragatha go when she was alone, clearly depressed? Basically, drama for the sake of drama, for the sake of the amazingly snotty digital Jax, as far as I'm concerned. And then it repeats for Kaufmo; where was everyone? Why is Ragatha neglected in the flashbacks?

Ragatha is the one that is the most isolated on a deeper level. Gangle thinks she's fake, Jax openly dislikes her, Kinger is crazy most of the time, Zooble is an isolationist asshole most of the time, Pomni barely acknowledges her except when specifically prompted to by the plot and so on.

And furthermore other character development is just nixed too.

When Zooble is devastated by the revelation of mind scans, Gangle tries to pull them with her and when Zooble just stands there, instead of Gangle stepping up and showing character development by supporting Zooble this time, she just cries and runs away, as usual. Ragatha's conversation with Kinger; the character development to have a healthy ego goes nowhere, except that cringe, strangely long scene with Pomni after everyone 'bwaaaah's over Jax getting his comeuppance.

Rather than having an arc of becoming a better person Jax gives up and gets peaceful oblivion. This isn't just Jax either. Caine's arc is rushed as fuck, he just suddenly 'understands' humans from watching social media, fucking laughable, and then he pleads for forgiveness like a dog from the people who he thinks killed him intentionally and who drove him crazy… and they just… forgive him. No arc of getting past the entire fiasco, nothing. After Episode 8 it's almost offensive.

>Jax being an unlikeable dispshit was a good change of course
That's the problem, he was ALWAYS an unlikeable dipshit, him having issues doesn't change that.

I would even have preferred an ending with Caine coming back, instead of a wrathful god he's now a 'devil' and now they truly shall suffer in hell for eternity. At least then you can say its a tragedy. This is just… mediocrity.

>>47838
THIS. Not only is it a poor resolution to the human character's stories, but it's a very stupid way of ending Caine's arc too.

>>47842
>No, but a story is supposed to have a point.
It HAD a point, maybe you mean it's supposed to have some sort of catharsis? like i said i didn't mind that the ending was, for lack of a better term, thanatological. i agree it wasn't the exciting showdown against caine that fans expected it to be, and more like a bunch of weirdos dealing with grief, but like i said, i think they tried something different, something *I* had an itch for. even if the results are not perfect it resonated with the people it was intended to resonate with.

>, it has way more to say about the valor of sacrifice, camaraderie in hardship and the unbreakable human spirit.
mneh this idea fucking blows. i do not care for capeshit stuff. like there's any shortage of wow evil computer out there. it's also a misreading of what caine as a character would become. if taken literally, then the circus is some sort of afterlife built by a dying person. then, also, caine's redemption absolutely makes sense, the guy literally just wants people to enjoy his silly little adventures, and the adventures really do exist to occupy time indefinitely, ragatha was spot on. also, i just have no appetite for another black mirror-esque rokos basilisk bullshit. shit sucks!

> Not only is it a poor resolution to the human character's stories
i lament the resolution in terms of a wasted opportunity for characters to really explore their humanity, even when they themselves are not human, perfect excuse to really drill down the existentialist themes. like if i were told i'm the simulation of a real person out there, and the real person out there was living my best life, i would not take that news kindly i dont think. i think that's more a plot point for more adults viewers, like i think severance does this? i have not watched severance.