Old thread (v1):
https://leftypol.org/hobby/res/7136.htmlThe practice and principles of Permaculture are one of the most important tools for not only creating a sustainable socialism, but also for repairing the damage done to the global ecosystem by capitalism, and lessening your individual reliance on the current capitalist system.Permacultural practice and socialism are two very powerful allies, and learning about permaculture should be necessity for modern socialists and communists.
>>40617I hadn't though of that, but I suppose you're right.
I volunteered with my local wildlife trust about 10 years ago to help coppice a patch of woodland near me. I've been back once or twice since then, but not recently. I might go there on Saturday to see if I can find the old patch. I'll take some pictures share them here
>>40614That's the problem! If you want to coppice it, you'll want to let it grow back up before cutting it again. At the moment the herbivores are essentially keeping it as a grove or field, so if you want any kind of taller vegetation you'll have to fence it off somehow.
Having said all that, I'm not sure what type of habitats Roe and Moose prefer to live in. Roe definitely hide in woodland during the day, and I see them feeding in fields too, but do they prefer high forest, or immature woodland with a low canopy, like you'd find in a coppice after a few years of growth?
>>40624>so if you want any kind of taller vegetation you'll have to fence it off somehowanon the entire point is to feed said herbivores. me and the neighbor have dubbed it "the buffet". I want them to become regulars, because my hunting stand is right next to it
>Having said all that, I'm not sure what type of habitats Roe and Moose prefer to live in. Roe definitely hide in woodland during the day, and I see them feeding in fields too, but do they prefer high forest, or immature woodland with a low canopy, like you'd find in a coppice after a few years of growth?they prefer border areas and young forests with saplings that are easy to graze (to the chagrin of forest companies). old forests don't provide much besides bark, which only red deer tend to eat, and we don't have any red deer where I live
>>40625Alright then, it sounds like you know what you're doing. When you've done it, be sure to let us know how well it works (if the website still exists then).
>>40638>if the website still exists thenwdym? also yeah I'll try to keep the thread posted on my land use shenanigans
>>40639Just that these things can take a while, and there's lots of talk about how about how we're hemorrhaging users. It'll probably be here for years to come, though.
I look forward to hearing about your endeavours!
Got my first compost pile up to 50C. Feels good anons. Won't use this pile in my veggies, but hopefully will make 70C with the next pile
>>41156naisu. I've finally had luck with compost for the first time and I think the difference was not using the black plastic container and instead just piling it up on the ground. I'm guessing the container in full sun got too hot and dried things out whereas the pile is in the shade most of the time. The container also made it pretty much impossible to flip/mix it up occasionally but that alone shouldn't have prevented it from breaking down but rather would just slow things down (hot vs cold compost). Still didn't make enough to replace imports but it's nice to get some use out of grass clippings and kitchen scraps.
Speaking of compost the county gave everyone a green bin for free and collects organics biweekly. On the one hand it's nice for those people that don't garden but it goes to show how valuable your biomass is and Ill be damned if Im going to give it away just to have the city sell it back to me. That bin will be collecting dust in the garage
Today I can finally contribute to this thread in more ways than just treating it like a generic gardening blog as this weekend I'll be making liquid fertilizer out of materials sourced entirely from my property which I think fits the permaculture theme. I'll say in advance that I'm still an utter novice so don't take this poor man's effort post too seriously and I'll happily be corrected on anything but for the sake of reviving this somewhat dead thread for the new season, here's the post:
It was in the previous thread way back in 2022 that I told yall that I purchased Bocking 14 Comfrey root cuttings and they are just now finally producing enough foliage that I feel comfortable harvesting it, for as the saying goes, first year plants sleep, second year they creep, third year they leap.
Comfrey is a neat plant as it's a "dynamic accumulator". There seems to be some debate as to whether this is even a thing–wiki claims there's zero scientific evidence to support it–but its such an accepted notion at least in the popular permaculture sphere that I'm running with it. The claim is that these plant put down deep tap-roots that pull minerals and nutrients up from the sub soil, where it's useless for a lot of other plants, and stores it in its leaves. By either waiting for the plant to die back in the fall or manually harvesting said leaves, these resources can be returned back to the topsoil for more shallow rooted plants to enjoy. Allegedly. This combined with the plants vigorous growing habits, allowing it to be harvested multiple times per season, means it's an extremely handy plant to have in the garden. It's potential uses are many, from companion planting to a source of nutritious biomass for mulch, composting or making liquid fertilizer. It's deep and thick tap-root loosens up the soil removing the need to commit the extremely destructive task of tilling the earth, at least in it's immediate vicinity, and it's flowers are an excellent source of pollen and nectar for our pollinator friends. Additionally, this particular cultivar of comfrey is sterile as I want to at least minimize the potential of introducing non-natives to the wider area. It can only spread through root cuttings.
Speaking of the plants propensity to grow, it's currently still too early to do much and the trees are only just putting out their leaves yet the comfrey is in some cases several feet tall. Without having any experience with harvesting it to inform my speculation, judging by it's rate of growth so early in the season I suspect I'll get four or five cuttings out of each plant this year. Most of this will simply be used as chop and drop mulch for the garden but for this first batch, as previously mentioned, I'll be making liquid fertilizer.
So the plan, as derived from online guides, is to put half a dozen kilograms or so of this comfrey, coarsely chopped and left to wilt for a day, into some kind of permeable bag (don't have a plan for this yet but I've read even an old pillow case will do) to be placed into a 100L barrel of the rainwater I collect before letting it marinate for 2-4 weeks. After decomposing the resulting liquid, which I've read is extremely stinky so I'll be sure to place the barrel far away from the house, can be applied straight onto the garden and is capable of feeding even the most nutrient hungry plants such as tomatoes. One can also make a concentrate that can be diluted 1:100 by filling the aforementioned 100L barrel completely with comfrey and water but alas I don't have enough of the former to do so just yet. I'm hoping this will help to fill the void my inability to create sufficient amounts of compost and my unwillingness to use synthetic fertilizers has created.
In other news, the other stereotypical permaculture plant that I've got, the Egyptian walking onion, is one of the other few plants that is not only awake by thriving, having taken over an entire 4x8 raised without much intervention by myself. I mean I was tossing a lot of the bulbils that form at the tops of the plants into the bed as I harvested the bulbs and greens last year but I was expecting them to take that year and had more or less forgotten about them when they didn't, so to see so many germinate after the winter is encouraging. I'll probably experiment with companion planting tomatoes in the same bed as I started way too many indoors this year.
Finally the rain water harvesting project involving 2 IBC totes continues to amaze me. You really don't need much surface area or rain to fill those bad boys up. I've taken to draining them at the highest point of the yard just because I know it won't be long before they're full again, at least during the spring
finally started re-tilling the same field as last year
>>34175 using the rotary cultivator
I'm trying something new this year - tilling strips with grass between them. the idea is to run the ride mower inbetween, throwing grass clippings as cover and extra fertilization as it breaks down
due to time constraints I only got to making about 3 meters of a grow bed. the soil is definitely more "clay-y" compared to last year's clumpiness, probably from having been broken up yet more. this is promising. the more I till the less weeds and grass that can take root
sharp eyes will notice actual plants in the third picture. I pre-cultivated for 2½ weeks in my apartment this year, rather than sowing right in the ground. hopefully this gives my crops a better chance. I have more pre-cultivated plants to plant but I didn't have time
planted so far:
>squash>spinach>bell peppers>plum tomatoes>iceberg lettuce>three of last year's carrots that emerged when tillingvisible in the first pic is another experiment: I'm covering the ground with tarps and stuff to try and smother weeds in preparation for tilling next year
forming the bed from wet muddy soil definitely felt like vidrel
>dennis! there's some lovely filth down here!>>42244Be aware that the grass will try to take over the beds. You might want to put some kind of barrier to help avoid this. There are various barrier plants that will do the job, or you could use something like mulch.
>>42245oh, I think I was thinking of using the grass as mulch. maybe it's more sensible to just till a big 'ol square like last year
>>42246You can use grass clippings as mulch, but if it's growing next to the bed with no barrier you will have grass trying to grow into the beds. You are better off not having grass directly between the beds. You can drop cardboard on the grass to kill it without tilling though. Tilling will make the are more prone to erosion. If you're planting new things their roots will deal with that, but if you are leaving the area as a path you're better off just dropping mulch on top of the existing soil periodically (after you kill the grass).
>>42247>You can drop cardboard on the grass to kill it without tilling thoughI tilled it last year so it should be sufficiently loose to till it this year too. as I mentioned the soil is improving in looseness thanks to tilling
>erosionit's not a very large area though. but maybe I can make another experimental patch somewhere. I have over 4 hectares to play with
>leaving the area as a pathnah there's plenty of space to walk around
also I need a mulch collector I guess. after I fix the mower. the ignition is off ever since I replaced the generator stator. I even adjusted the magneto's airgap. no dice >_<
update: I planted some taters, beans and carrots. also tilled away the strip of grass visible in
>>42244 . forgot to take pictures. what I planted before seems to be surviving, but there were some yellow leaves. gave everything a good soak with the hose since there hasn't been much rain
there weren't any seed potatoes anywhere in town, so I had to resort to potatoes from the store. I've split them up into two groups: one that went straight in the ground and a second that I will sprout indoors before planting
oh and I bought a new machine key for the mower. turns out the old key had sheared which is why the ignition was off. unfortunately the new key was of the wrong size, so the motor backfired and the new key also sheared. ordering some new ones and will shim them in place if they don't fit perfectly
Figs are almost ripe. I wish tastier fruit grew in my area.
>>34648Not to discourage you from gardening, but I find a lot of the discourse around permaculture is utopian nonsense. North Korea is a good case study on an actual de-mechanization of agriculture. It's doable, but not quickly, and ties up more labor in food production.
Can regular gardens play too? I planted root vegetables today!
>>43891My mom's planning to grow a potato. We had a tomato go pretty good for a year but got too much salt becuse we tried using sweat from washing a shirt with bottled water when the water cut off. Potatos seem hard to fumble.
>>43891Next thread should probably just be /grow/ or something. Permaculture is good but the barrier to entry should be as low as possible.
Almost time to plant for northern hemispheroids. What you growing this year?
>>45484still 1½ month away up here in the norf. I've figured out my soil is nitrogen poor so I'm thinking legumes this year. and taters. I'm not going to hope for seed potatoes to be available. if there are none then it's regular potatoes in the ground. I would like to plant some yams too I think
I'm also hoping the seeds I planted in trays last year will sprout
>>45484Some of my previous stuff is already coming back. I'm already seeing flowers on my plum trees and strawberries.
>>45484I've got tomatoes and peppers started indoors and I'm thinking carrots, celery, potatoes, spinach and kale come spring.
Semi excited this year because an epic ice storm took out a bunch of trees, giving me more sun
So far up for our main beds here:
- Two cultivars of cherry tomatoes.
- Moschatas (Butternut, Long Island Cheese, Seminole, Thai Kang Kob)
- Cucumbers
- Red Russian Kale
These all seem especially easy to get going.
We haven't had as much luck with other plants this year.
Hoping where we have multiple varieties growing for some interesting crosses.
north anon here. started turning over the soil in my potato patch. found a bunch of potatoes and carrots that survived the winter. I'll be replanting them, along with some early, mid and late harvest potato cultivars. I've also started pulling a bunch of dead wood towards it which I plan to set on fire to put ash and charcoal into the soil. might pick up some cow poop from a friend of mine
I also plan to plant beans together with hemp. the idea is to have the beans climb on the hemp. should be interesting
>>45792>tomatoes, squash, 'cumbers and kalenice
>>45857taters planted. put 2/3rds of them under silage as a no-till experiment, the rest of them planted as normal. nights are still around 0°C but with heat from the ground they should still be fine
All the perennials I planted last year at my grandma's house came back this year. Yay!
>>45884more progress: broad beans, carrots and bell peppers planted
>>45891cool! none of mine have taken :[
>>45910oh and bell peppers somewhere in the middle but it seems I forgot to jot down where
>>39606there anything sketchy about the UN doing all this? seems too good to be true
Perfect
Alright long story short, I used to be poor but rented a space with some gardenspace which was cool.
I moved and had to give that up (which really kinda depressed me) but now I have an easy, good paying job right now. I'm just planning to save some money and buy a field somewhere where I can put a small enough living space (or with a few people). With some luck I can turn this in a fully remote job too.
I'll love this thread. I used to work for am organic farm. It was pretty cool but I couldn't keep working there, also I want to go further.
Thank you for reading my blogpost.
>>46071The UN sometimes does good things. Not everything about it is the security council. They probably are taking advantage of the situation somehow but it's still good to slow down desertification.
>>46171Thank you for writing it. Good luck on turning it into a remote job and getting the field.
>>46071>there anything sketchy about the UN doing all this? seems too good to be truethere's nothing sus about it, they're just forced to respond to China's publicized success in reversing desertification. Some Western countries were forced to give their populations some succdem healthcare during the cold war because the USSR was doing it. Now China's advances in greening deserts is forcing the UN to finally follow some good policies.
>Ripe guaraná fruits resemble human eyesincredible plant, possibly divine
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Guarana >>46210Not anything wrong with what you posted but it's important to remind people on this point:
They are REVERSING desertification, not erasing desert environments. I have seen a lot of gigabrain professional contrarians arguing that it's bad because it's an ecocide against desert biomes but it's literally trying to hold back ongoing ecological catastrophes.
We've got two or three apple trees here, but they're too young to produce much.
Older varieties from around the area, and one which is just a ton of grafts.
We had a red russian pomegranate but we dug it up and moved if further south to my grandparents.
It's a very sturdy plant, to have managed to have been moved or died back to the ground three or four times.
It seems like it's doing much better at its current location though, it was just maybe a zone or two too cold here.
We've also got a small plot of russian kale.
Another very resilient plant that tends to do a little better in the fall when there's no butterflies to eat them.
Have a theory that the coloration of scarlet kale would make it undesirable to the green worms, and so would really like to cross them.
Getting something like a red russian kale!
I've never been able to get the scarlet kale to grow however. sad.
We've got some monstrous golden everglades tomatoes that grow like mad.
Most of them came back from unharvested fruits (this is because it's everglades).
Or fruits that went bad and so were composted.
I've selected one that was crossed so as to produce larger fruits (but still ripen on time unlike most of the crosses).
I'm hoping to grow it next year in a secondary plot somewhere.
Although for aesthetic reasons we've lost our previous secondary tomato plot.
A perennial battle!
Other crops include a large collection of thai kang kob mocshata pumpkins.
Only one vine of these really produced, so I'm going to select from this one.
Pumpkins are very resistant against over selection issues.
Have seem some really great Seminole derivatives, and would be very interested in crossing with these.
Some spaghetti squash grew from out of the compost, so we harvested several of these.
We planted a lot of half-runner beans, but not sure any actually produced.
A favorite from around the area.
We've also got a collection of jerusalem artichokes, we've never eaten them.
Overall it's tough to go wrong with local, or wild crops, gathered like folk stories.
Things like wild new jersey broccoli fascinate me, or eating wild mustard greens.
>>46749>like folk storiesor… you know… mass line.
>>46749pomegranates are very easy to root from cuttings. like so easy that fallen sticks will root themselves and in a couple years whole new tree
>Have a theory that the coloration of scarlet kale would make it undesirable to the green wormsme too. it works somewhat but you also want the waxy farina cuticle skin trait. they still eat it but prefer no wax, and the wax melts when you put it in a skillet and tastes the same. i have a lot of perennial kale and they regularly get to six feet tall and last around 4 years until the stem and root borers take them down. theyre all hybrids between galacian/jersey cabbage and purple tree collards
i picked loopers off mine yesterday and they were only on the plants in the shade which are all shorter and more delicate with floppy thin leaves. the ones in full sun have a full wax cuticle and no worms and very crisp firm turgid leaves. you could spray BT but im stress testing for drought and pests and selecting for purple
>>46751>waxy farina cuticleInteresting, have to dig into this sometime.
<Cabbage Leaf Epicuticular Wax Deters Female Oviposition and Larval Feeding of Pieris rapae
>The small white butterfly Pieris rapae is a major pest of brassicaceous crops, causing extensive damage to cabbage Brassica oleraceae[…] Wax removal treatments, in which the leaf surface was rubbed with cotton balls, significantly increased female oviposition and mid-stage (2nd–4th instars) larval feeding compared with untreated (intact) leaves. Spraying treatments with n-nonacosane standard on wax-removed leaves significantly suppressed female oviposition and mid-stage larval feeding[…]This suggests that young larvae are more susceptible to wax feeding inhibition than older larvae and that increasing leaf wax content enhances the resistance of cabbage against P. rapae. Acquiring these traits in cabbage leaves through improved breeding and cultivation methods may reduce and control the oviposition and feeding damage by P. rapae.https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC11937181/
<Environmental Conditions and Agronomical Factors Influencing the Levels of Phytochemicals in Brassica Vegetables Responsible for Nutritional and Sensorial Properties
>Anthocyanins were detected in Brassica vegetables and described by several authors [13,29]. They are present only in bright coloured species and varieties with red, orange and purple pigmentation, such as some kales, purple broccoli, and red and black cabbage[…] In particular, red cabbage possesses eight main types of anthocyanins (for a total of up to 190 mg Cyanidin−3-Glucoside equivalents/100 g of fresh weight) [30]; cyanidin−3-diglucoside is the most represented [31]. In broccoli, more than 17 anthocyanins were detected [29].https://www.mdpi.com/2076-3417/11/4/1927
<PLANT ANTHOCYANIN INSECT FEEDING DETERRENTS
>A few studies have determined that some anthocyanin compounds can reduce insect feeding. Of several anthocyanins tested, we found that delphinidin-3-O-glucoside added to insect diet at 1000 ppm significantly inhibited the growth of fall armyworms and cabbage loopers while cyanidin-3-O-glucoside only reduced the growth of fall armyworms. We also fed cabbage looper larvae leaves of an Arabidopsis thaliana transgenic mutant that accumulates cyanidin-3-O-glucosides. Leaves of the wild type control were more heavily damaged than the cyanidin-accumulating leaves. Lastly, we conducted insect feeding studies on floral tissues of Petunia hybrida, which can synthesize large amounts of different anthocyanins depending on the variety. Mortality rates of corn earworm and cabbage looper larvae were the highest on a lightly colored petunia flower that accumulates a precursor to the visible anthocyanin pigments. Together these results indicate that expression of relevant anthocyanin molecules at suitable levels may be an effective means to reduce insect predation of plant tissues. https://www.ars.usda.gov/research/publications/publication/?seqNo115=155544 >>46763update: the Queen Annes were good. could maybe have boiled them for a few more minutes
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