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 [Last 50 Posts]

Old thread (v1): https://leftypol.org/hobby/res/7136.html

The practice and principles of Permaculture are one of the most important tools for not only creating a sustainable socialism, but also for repairing the damage done to the global ecosystem by capitalism, and lessening your individual reliance on the current capitalist system.Permacultural practice and socialism are two very powerful allies, and learning about permaculture should be necessity for modern socialists and communists.


Anons I'm so proud we filled an entire permaculture thread, let's make v2 even better


Archive of previous bread → https://archive.is/8jNjO


>>33648 (OP)
Modern agriculture changes the land to allow growing huge fields of the same crop continuously. This isn't how plants grow in nature. In nature, it's a mixture of different kinds of plants, from large to small trees, and from grasses to fungi and wildlife.

This diverse ecosystem allows nature to maintain stability against changing climates rather than being vulnerable to adverse weather events like monoculture crops, or to being wiped out by swarms of insects.

It's more labor intensive, but it's also what we need. The working class is the leader of humanity's future destiny, since we are the most numerous and most productive. we must achieve permaculture, which is a mode of agricultural production only supportable by socialism

much like the bourgeois represses or fails to develop or fund technology which increases decentralization of the means of production, like torrent software, they must also suppress more productive ecologies capable of allowing robust and decentralized production and consumption of food

only through centralization of agriculture can food take on a commodity form, and communally maintainable and productive land would pose an alternative to needing commodified food at all, which breaks a vital coercive measure of capital to bind the working class to capitalist societies rather than decentralized ones maintained by the workers themselves

permaculture grants the working class, an extension of their skin and digestive system which they themselves can control. bourgeois control of food is much like biological slavery, only through each individual being able to control their own means of food production, through a community which itself can, through a town, principality, nation and entire Earth which can, can the working class be made free of bourgeois labor coersion efforts


you may say, this monoculture lets you decrease harvesting and administration labor through linear scaling of human labor efforts through simple agricultural devices. to this the clear reply is that in the coming near future, and arguably present, we have the capability to achieve this same automation with permaculture at large scales, through advanced robotics and robotic aids of human labor.

historical arguments lay flat in the necessity of drastic reinventing at each present in time of the means of production through a scientific understanding of reality, and the latest reality requires stable ecological niches rather than mass genocide of exotic plant life in favor of just one plant chosen for some arbitrary metric like shippability, shelf life, or color. one woman's weed is another one's medicine, another one's building material. we cannot lose any more life, capitalism is a sick machine with sicker side-effects, that cannot be kept as the global coordinator of labor any longer, given the serious threats we face and the more advanced form of labor organization we must achieve, than crude wage-coerced and private forms


the psychotic urge to destroy an entire forest, to harvest wood for some trivial use, generates profit, contrasted against the immense loss of the rest of the forest, its soil, mycelial networks, insects, small animals, and even apex predators, then water reservoirs, windbreaks, rivers, maybe lakes all protected by that forest. all aligned within a mesh of interactions maintaining a healthy ecosystem, utterly destroyed to create a series of inert tables with an expected lifetime less than even a few decades or years in many cases. this utterly deranged, alien behavior is the work of not just the owning class, but capital itself, this behemoth burden and simultaneous lifelink, how do we migrate over life from capitalism to something else? with food and water most foremost.


in trying times, a man could look to the sky, listen to the rain, follow the eagle, and be guided to salvation among nature. capitalist enclosure of nature aims to prevent this. they dont want us living on big chunks of land with forests on them that have been sculpted over generations to provide for an entire person's nutrition needs and even some medicinal uses, along with water access, they don't want healthy environments allowing more makeshift and temporary living conditions with fewer materials, and conversely, they also really don't want reinforced cement commie blocks embedded within these self sustaining ecosystems, allowing large groups of people to live in a very sustainable and reliable way, without massive labor inputs required and without coerced wage labor. they do not want us to achieve communism in any way, and there are many avenues they use to oppress us to prevent us, which means there are many ways to do it or help reinforce it


a return to primitivist living is clearly not the answer to class struggle under capitalism. and yet in many ways a return to nature and primitive ways of living is what we need regardless. because of the increased productivity of nature and persistent and decentralized means of production, socialism can allow stabilization of non-oppressive labor requirements and resource distribution scenarios, sidestepping the requirement to work divided in the way the capitalists would have us divide labor

through elimination of some forms of consumption, entire forms of labor become unnecessary. through local production of food the entire agricultural shipping industry is eliminated. through universalizing food and housing access, the entire landlordism and landlordism financing industry can be eliminated in its necessity of scale. but this is surely a decrease in complexity and a return to something more primitive. yet how is it eliminating so much labor by primitivizing? because it is socializing the means of production and organizing people at a higher level of advancement than before, beyond what is capable of being achieved by the anti-social instruments of capital


the elimination of the commodity form must first mean the creation of non-commodity forms, grown from the pre-existing conditions of commoditization of all resources for creating other resources. only through direct relationships to the means of production, combined with socialized and decentralized distribution and access to the means of production, can the commodity form be eliminated. this does not have to mean a decrease in industrial efficiency. it can also entail a radical shift in value systems and necessity for material wealth to begin with, as we must note how many are themselves simply generated by the poverty of conditions under capitalism itself, driving weird compulsions to consume in one way or another, which would not otherwise be felt in a satisfying lifestyle, allowing yet more labor requirements to be eliminated. this re-primitivization simultaneously generates a richer and more robust life, and decreases how much we all must work.

socialism requires less labor than capitalism through these effects


and no wonder it is nature itself that developed the most self-transformative system, given the seasons imposing variable survival conditions. only through using nature itself, not attempting to take nature apart and use its inert pieces to build something new, no rather through using living nature, as it stood, for as much as possible. given all that it can offer and how utopian it is, why should the availability of some luxuries like jewelry be expected and yet not the availability of survivable forest refuges for relaxation? communism doesn't have to be kept on a clock forcing people to work at the right time, rather the systems on which we work should be designed entirely to accomodate us, not us accomodate them, as mere cogs in machines of diverse parts, as diverse as the facets of the division of labor imposed by the capitalist class, and as those are removed more and more over time through human advancement of our species and our ecosystem, we can achieve utopian primitivism, that most wholesome and natural form of living, out in nature as much as possible, and yet protected through advanced technological society


Permaculture is love


Post more informational content and hope pills.


What if I want turmeric and peppercorn, and my permaculture garden isn't in a tropical climate


i hab some of these things on permaculture


>use greenhouse techniques to grow tropicals in your region
>get it from somewhere else
spices in particular last well when kept dry, and take small amounts, so they're a perfect choice for international trade if it's hard to grow certain spices in certain regions. at the same time, local spices are often neglected and could be built up. maybe you have a replacement ingredient for those two locally that almost tastes similar, or good enough


What if I just don't want to operate a greenhouse along with a farm and want to live in a city instead


then do that?


Well, anons, I've recently become lucky enough to have the opportunity to purchase land where I can start a permaculture project. Does anyone have any beginner's resources? I've watched a few videos about basic permaculture principles, but a step-by-step guide to site selection and forest foundations would be sweet. My aim is for a 5-10 acre max land parcel located in a subtropical region.


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You don't have to source every food item from the local produce. The point is that a lot of it can be done closer to the point of consumption. You would do that for crops you eat a lot of, like potatoes, doesn't matter as much for things you eat less than a pound of per year.

You can put permaculture production in cities in or alongside parks, so the stuff is nearby for your supply. And greenhouses for certain kinds of things can be put on rooftops. And also of course incorporated into the sprawl. Permaculture is not solely the agricultural aspect but (best case) incorporates architecture and city planning/engineering too. Permaculture combines well with better city planning in general, because higher density walkable urban centers mean more land becomes available for other things. It takes a significant amount of land per person to feed even with improved yields, so that's a plus. It would also enable growing back more forests for carbon sequestration, putting back trees where a lot of (redundant) farmland exists today, replacing suburban sprawls with permaculture types of farms, and reconfiguring cities to be more ideal for human habitation in terms of density, amenities, layout, etc. Less dense than super metropolises but much more dense than suburbs, you know, mid-rise multi-purpose mixed-zone buildings.


You walk out of your apartment and exit the commie block. It looks like you just entered a forest. You take a walk, eating some wild berries and doing a bit of weeding that needs to be done, indicated on the digital work queue. You follow your augmented reality glasses to a beautiful clearing full of weeds and get to work.

Carrying your sacks of weeds back to the compost area you pick an apple and some berries for a snack. Then you take a few hour fishing break to catch lunch. At the edge of the forest you find a high speed rail node and take it to the city. Youre dropped off and grab an electric scooter to ride on the tree lined streets, meant for small vehicles only.

You love work because its free associative labor you chose to volunteer at, and since you got lucky and this form of work was in high demand , you receive thanks from the community and a beautiful pendant you proudly display

After work you meet your family at the village canteen where you cook together and share stories

Return home merrily, you dream of the next day. Tomorrows a farming day, where you'll be taken to the countryside to help sewing the seeds

All is good in the world


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Now is the time to grow plants comrades



.pdf plox


this looks amazing, however i am not paying. please, pdf, i cant find it on libgen


What's the organic way to put in a pond? Importing clay? I just want a small one for the frogs so I'm hoping vidrel will work


someone convince me not to plant these non-native seeds I spent 80 bucks on


Permaculture isn't necessarily against doing that. If the species isn't invasive there's not that much of an issue. Also worth considering that climate change is going to wreck a lot of ecosystems and we're going to have to adapt by introducing a lot of non-native species that are already adapted to the new conditions.

Depends on the soil you have. Some soil will drain faster than others. You may not need to do anything but dig a hole if the drainage is slow enough. The video seems on point if that's the kind of pond you want. If you don't have a natural source of clay nearby you might be able to find some natural clay at a pottery supply store.


I bought a rotary cultivator today, plan on getting at least part of my land into shape to where I can at least plant 'taters. 5 horsepower. I have 4 ha of fields that has laid fallow for probably 20 years, I'll only be able to turn a fraction of it


like what the other anon said look for low drainage, ion that much about permaculture but I do know a decent amount about wetland ecology, chances are a slow draining area might already have some wetland plants growing there or maybe even a vernal pool. point is find the area where collects the most and drains the least and start there, if your in the tidewater region and send lawns pics I could verify cuz you do have shit like eastern star eye grass and blunt spikerush randomly growing in poorly drained lawns.


Also good advice.
Look up where there are wetlands near you and try to get some transplants form there maybe, they'll already be adapted to the conditions. If you do some research you might be able to find some information from your local wildlife department or something some material about local plants. If you're trying to attract particular animals you can probably find a guide specific to them. Frogs vary a bit so it depends on the species probably. If you find a plant that they like to lay eggs on that is probably a good one to go for since it's so important to them.


Thanks. I have a few spots that flood after big rains and my soil has plenty of clay so I'll give it a try
Torn about whether to put it in the shade or sun.. I don't want to have to fill it manually so shade would cut down on evaporation but then I worry that the lack of sun will create a less then ideal habitat for the critters its meant for? Also will this be a breeding ground for mosquitoes?


>I don't want to have to fill it manually so shade would cut down on evaporation but then I worry that the lack of sun will create a less then ideal habitat for the critters its meant for
That depends on what critters it's meant for exactly and what their environment prefers. If they like plants that need sun and you can put them in, they will provide the shade for example. Devil's in the details. A lot of permaculture is just learning specifics of the organisms and other features you incorporate into the system.
>Also will this be a breeding ground for mosquitoes?
Mosquitoes will breed in any standing water they can find. If you already have puddles forming in the area they already have an opportunity to lay their eggs. If you're worried about it there are plants that repel mosquitoes. Citronella is a commonly used one that's often easy to get.


your def onto to something cuz some species will prefer shade over sun, considering amphibians are exothermic but also need moisture a mix of both sounds ideal, if you wanna drop ur general region I could easily find what frogs live near you and what there ecological preferences are


there U go you tards u_u


thank u n_n


mmm :3


finally assembled it and manager to overfill the engine with oil because the instructions are badly translated from Italian. drained the excess oil, which had foamed a bit. letting it rest now to see if the foaming clears up


spent about 2 hours tearing up part (about 1 are) of my 1 hectare "lawn", works pretty well. if I were serious about planting the entire thing I'd probably need a tractor


Nice, are you planning on putting mulch down? I think it was you that mentioned potatoes. I did those for the first time this spring and man oh man did I fuck up. Everyone seen eyes on potatoes but I hadn't seen those long ass stems before so I broke them off like a retard before planting xd
Thanks guys
reading up on the frogs and wetland plants of central Ontario and I think a shallow ditch in the sun will be perfect. I live right next to a lake so there's plenty of viable habitat already anyway, I'm just giving them a place to chill. I might still give them a 3 feet deep section for hibernating but we'll see


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>Nice, are you planning on putting mulch down? I think it was you that mentioned potatoes. I did those for the first time this spring and man oh man did I fuck up. Everyone seen eyes on potatoes but I hadn't seen those long ass stems before so I broke them off like a retard before planting xd
lol @ breaking off the shoots
it's probably too late to plant any annuals. there was snow on the ground into May this year. I need to look into more perennials
moose or deer have been grazing on one of my young apple trees >:(
picrel is the result of my cultivating efforts. managed to turn over about 140 m² in five hours


>>34175 (me)
I already have some redcurrant bushes. perhaps I could clone them
strawberries would also be interesting
cabbage, swedes, sweet potato for carbs
I think I need to pay the local plant school a visit. I'd also need to set up a barrier of some sort. I know there's some barbed wire in the barn from the previous owner, and chickenwire on top would keep birds out
I also have hemp seed that I plan on planting, both to see how much biomass can be produced but also because CBD is legal here


>>34176 (me)
speaking of perennials: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Land_Institute#Kernza
perennial grain is apparently an active area of research


Strawberries are great for permaculture because you can easily co-plant them with other things and they propagate themselves. Just be aware of what they do and don't play nice with (look up companion planting info). But if you're as far north as it sounds like idk if strawbs grow too well. IIRC there are more cold hardy varieties though.
>I think I need to pay the local plant school a visit.
This is a good idea, although they might have an ideological skew about agriculture to be aware of.
>I also have hemp seed that I plan on planting, both to see how much biomass can be produced but also because CBD is legal here
Nice, you should be able to get plenty of biomass from that and be able to get a consistent source of mulch.


plenty of people grow strawberries here, no problem in that regard


Some advice for strawberries: the first season you grow them, pick off the flowers before they fruit. Growing fruit takes a lot of resources and if the plants can't fruit they will spend the resource they have on growing more and establishing themselves.

Less fruits = more roots.


I have more perennials than anything. Put in two blueberries today and replaced a chokeberry that the rabbits nibbled to the ground
>I'd also need to set up a barrier of some sort
Ya something chewed the bark off of all of my fruit trees this year but they seem to be pulling through
I need to do currants still
>I'd also need to set up a barrier of some sort
your best bet is to plant more than you need. I gave up with barriers and the like


oh and I forgot, you do this because the faster they get established the more productive they will be sooner. you lose out on fruits in the first season but then you get more production later.

more roots -> more fruits


sounds a bit tedious to go and deflower (heh) the strawberries but I get the idea
>Ya something chewed the bark off of all of my fruit trees this year
could be red deer


>sounds a bit tedious to go and deflower (heh) the strawberries but I get the idea
It's the same tedious as picking the fruit would be.


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What are you guys' thoughts on aquaponics? And is it possible to efficiently run a setup through a pond?


I don't see why not but I've never seen an aquaponics setup that wasn't mostly PVC pipe and plastic containers for the fish. Something more organic would be ideal
Only possible drawbacks I can think of for the in ground setup would be that controlling temp and pH might harder and runoff from the pond might be bad for the environment


>PVC pipes
reminder that the phthalates used in PVC as plasticizers leaches out and is very carcinogenic

Aquaponics in a permaculture system is an emerging thing and has a lot of potential. You could argue that aquaponics conceptually is just extending permaculture to an aquatic ecosystem.


>reminder that the phthalates used in PVC as plasticizers leaches out and is very carcinogenic
what is the alternative? PTFE is hardly affordable. PP or PE maybe?


PTFE is also bad, but for different reasons ("forever chemical"). I would recommend against plastics in general if you can. The effects of plastics are not well understood at this point. If you are serious about building piping you should be looking for metal in the long run. Cheap plastic tubes to get a proof of concept working is probably fine, but even putting aside health and environmental concerns, plastic degrades easier than you think, especially outdoors and being pumped with the kind of bio compounds that would be involved in aquaculture. Typical uses of PVC pipes for that are by hobbyists who aren't taking it that seriously or by companies that are trying to cut costs and skimp on building materials. Plastic pipes can be useful for things like managing wires (since they also function as insulators), but they're really a pretty bad solution for piping liquids.


Which metal would be sufficient for piping? I'm looking to build a small setup as ancillary plant and meat production to a more traditional permaculture design, so I want something that isn't going to bankrupt me.


Copper has been a solid standard although it's become more expensive in recent years. You should keep in mind though that none of this stuff is some iron clad rule. It's all tradeoffs. If you don't have the opportunity to get better materials, the less healthy/environmental ones will still work.

But you also might look into designing aquaponics without pipes. There might already be solutions using landscaping or other types of construction. Permaculturists tend to try to avoid relying too much on systems like pipes since they can require more maintenance. You can definitely set up an aquaponics system without needing pipes, but there would again be tradeoffs. It might require more space or it might be harder to isolate.


y not ceramic pipes?
metal corrodes


copper has antibacterial properties which probably isn't good in an outdoors environment. I suspect iron might be best


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Ceramics are not as common or versatile but sure. There are a lot of water management methods that use pottery and so on.

Iron rusts easily. Steel might be better. Then again rust can feed the ecosystem in some situations.


I use iron as a catch-all term here. but yeah iron ions are beneficial to most lifeforms
interesting method


still looking into permaquaculture.. some interesting links on this page https://freshwater-aquaculture.extension.org/pond-culture/


picked up some perennial seeds
>Oriental garlic (Allium tuberosum)
>rucola (Eruca vesicaria)
>wild strawberry (Fragaria vesca)
will get to planting tomorrow, and a bunch of annuals


Found some permaculture books that touch on aquaculture but I'm going to stop now because I don't even live in a place where this is viable.
I did get a start on my wildlife pond and hit the ground water less than a foot down! We just had a rain so Im assuming this is temporary. The immediate vicinity is heavily planted out with wildflowers and this is the same area-ish that I put the swale in that I was talking about last thread so I guess these things are keeping the ground wet despite being on the highest part of the property. Its cool but now I have till its dry to dig more
nice. I've got those strawberries too. Sadly after many years now I've still not eaten any.. I guess the animals get them first but that's pretty much what they're there for anyway so oh well


that is cool. I wonder what the "watering radius" of one pot would be? Im think 2-4 per 4x8 foot raised bed


Depends on a number of factors, soil drainage probably being most important.


this gives me too much flashbacks to that 'magic ceramic pot heater' that was going around social media last year


it started to rain so enough yard work for today. planted so far:


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true, theres too much clay in my area for this. I did find these if anyone else is interested. They're called Ollas


managed to also plant
and water the field before I had to leave


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>mfw fertilizing plants with used coffee grounds from Chiapas coffee beans


incredibly based


ya im thinkin based


rotocultivator anon here. no babies sprouting up just yet, and we had snow today…


I wonder to what extent we could replace animal husbandry with hunting/fishing after extensive rewilding efforts.


I already do this. keeping animals is labour intensive. participating in the yearly moose hunt less so


"Rewilding" is kind of a deceptive concept. However "wild" you make the land, that process is artificial. That's not to say we need to micromanage things, but there's kind of an idealistic notion that we should just leave things completely alone, and it comes from misconceptions about indigenous people being "wild" and just living "according to nature" rather than actively managing the environment. Failure to understand this is part of why you have such a bad wildfire problem in California. People used to go through and do controlled burns of the understory in those forests to keep from building up too much flammable material and make large scale wildfires impossible. This also helped a lot of native species reproduce - redwood trees for example are famous for needing fire to complete their reproductive cycle.

That said, traditional methods of animal husbandry are often overly labor intensive and destructive to the land. Doing something like the plains indians did with the bison can be a deliberate choice over direct husbandry while also promoting the ecological functioning. But it's important to understand you aren't just passively reacting to the herds - they were affecting their behavior and spurring their migration patterns when you follow after them. We can apply similar principles and turn "wild" regions into landscapes that are managed at a macro level where we use "wild" but managed species to shape the environment. Bison in particular are suited to this, because migratory ruminants are actually very important for maintaining grassland like the plains, as they put a check on the growth of certain plants and help produce fertilizer that will reinvigorate the soil. Failure to maintain a fertilization cycle there was one factor that led to the dust bowl.


this but also there is still a need to produce enough macronutrients for the metropolitan population
an example of "rewilding" is the way arboriculture is heading in Scandinavia, where clearcutting is being replaced by selective logging and seeking a mix of species. lines of birch can halt the spread of the spruce bark beetle for example


It's not deceptive, you just don't understand it.

That's not rewilding.


different forests are used for different purposes. if you think that all of it should retvrn to some pristine condition then you are mistaken


Did you reply to the wrong post?


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speaking of coffee grounds, I just noticed this morning that Starbucks gives away big bags of the stuff for free.. Usually cafe's are happy to give away their grounds but Im surpised a big chain bothers. I suppose it's less waste for them+good PR


urban reforestation

based or cringe?


Why would it be cringe? They help a lot with microclimate, no?


thanks anon ur right its based, i knew it was

imagine every sidewalk and road chiseled up with trees and edible plants growing in them


enjoy your bugs


a small price to pay for maybe not dying of air pollution


catalytic converters do more to prevent air pollution than any amount of trees have


And yet we can still go farther. Besides the mental health benefits of greenery are proven.


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Growing plants in urban areas is good for a lot of reasons from improved mental health to more efficient heating and cooling.

>enjoy your bugs
I do, yes.


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Trees don't prevent air pollution. They sequester carbon. Two different things.


Don't they take in a certain amount of particulates and other nasty stuff?


I know. "air pollution" typically refers to particulates and NOx and SOx, not CO2
>I do, yes
not inside your house you won't
t. has to vacuum up hordes of dead flies every spring


That's not prevention either. Prevention is stopping the pollution from happening in the first place.

>not inside your house you won't
Screen or solid doors and put the things bugs like outside the house so they'll want to be there instead of inside.


They do. There's plenty of empirical evidence that trees do improve air quality, I am not sure why this troll is fixating so hard on prevention only.


Do they retain the pollution in their mass or do they give it to the soil?


nuisance bug populations go up at first when you introduce new host plants and then go down when you have stable habitat for predators


plants, intertwined, have you ever had a dream about a plant you once lost, plants, intersected, a planet connected, plants, have you ever had a dream of a world of plants, intersected, plants connected, living like we could in a world respected, plants, interconnected


Pdf version if you want


Cool ass idea
>not inside your house you won't
>t. has to vacuum up hordes of dead flies every spring
Get screens on your windows and doors buddy. And throw out garbage before it piles up, don't leave mess out, tuck your food away properly etc
Can you please explain deleuze to me?


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Did you guys discuss mushrooms for permaculture yet?


mushroom is love
mushroom is life


>Can you please explain deleuze to me?
never read him dont care to


>they think mere screens will keep these fuckers out
believe me I've tried. every autumn they crawl in, somehow


check for vents/cracks


I suspect they live in the walls, meaning there's a bajillion ways for them to get in from there. in my living room I do know they get in from one of the corners, and applying an anti-fly pen there helps. in the remaining rooms it is less clear. I keep all doors closed when I'm not there (winter) yet they still get in everywhere


We have a short window of opportunity for us to be able to affect change in a timely manner the amount of just environmental degradation and loss of life the aquifers being pumped dry and everything else that is. if we fail on any one of those measures that is a wrap but we have the design science we have the technology to be able to model our landscapes and give marching orders to the 7 billion occupants of this planet and we could terraform this into in just a ridiculous state of abundance I can see it clearly I'm going to be talking about some of the situations that we need to face and more importantly ways that we can deal with them

it's just it's one of those things where as it's all playing out there's this sense of hopelessness because there's not a like a clearly defined path where this country's ship gets rided it's like I I just see a lot of chaos and and a lot of confusion and a lot of infighting and I don't know how this plays out it doesn't it doesn't seem like there's a real clear oh this is our path to sanity you're right and I think the first step towards that path though is people recognizing what the insanity is and and and the problems and I think that more and more of these things these things are coming to light the word agriculture comes from agrarian meaning the soil and culture the enrichment of soil yet today modern industrialized agriculture is a system that destroys soils extracts soils minerals and degrade soils and erode soils we have lost touch with the natural systems of the culture of soil

topsoil is the layer that allows plants to grow and is decreasing at an alarming rate because of soil erosion most of the main crops of the world are eroding soils at 200 tons per acre per year this cannot go on because topsoil is the basis of life on Earth if we look at the present world as a species we've lost touch with the natural systems an industrialized agriculture goes against the laws of nature and we are not separate from nature find a solution we have to look at nature and we have to build systems where Humanity lives that is 70 Forest cover because it's in the forest that we truly learn and it's the forest that help us to manage our soil's stability and enable that soil to maintain its fertility the word permaculture comes from permanence and agriculture but it naturally leads to permanence in culture it's a system that focuses on Solutions rather than problems it's the art of working with natural systems to create productive ecosystems that provide all the basic needs of humanity a design science that begins with ethics and mimics natural systems in any landscape in any climate anywhere on Earth permaculture is the way we go beyond sustainability and into resilience

I think small farms are the answer obviously it's going to be a long time before we can increase the size of farms in time I mean we just don't have enough time to get onto large Farms I think starvation's not far away famines are not far away I think we've got to take people through a new Narrative of transformational change so we have to literally run run new approaches where we need to take people through this transformational change where they support small farms and they become part of the movement even from small gardens to small farms and they need to sort of realize they're swimming in a toxic suit while they're hypnotized with everybody else and nobody realizes we're all hypnotized most people are hypnotized in masses are hypnotized and they're swimming like a big crowded shoulder fish all swimming in the same direction in a completely toxic fluid and I think you have to ask people just to step out of the water just get come with me on on an exercise where I can get you out of the water and you can look back and see what it is that you're how your existence actually looks

'''I think it's a mistake to ask if people and make all people the
same as one entity if they will understand it I don't care of all people understand it when you're faced with a with an overwhelming life-threatening crisis as in the Titanic being hit by an iceberg and you happen to be aware before anybody else's that the ship is going to sink and there aren't enough lifeboats and you know how to build lifeboats and you try to deal with that in however long the Titanic had before it went down you're likely to run across three types of Passenger on the Titanic you'll run across a type that's basically deer in the Headlights ship's been hit what does that mean what do I do I don't know what to do I don't know where to go should I do I don't know that's one group there's another group that says we get that the ship's going to sink we get that we're all going to die unless we make some lifeboats and do it fast show us what to do and then you have a third group that says this is the this is the Titanic it's absolutely Unsinkable Unsinkable and so we're going back to the bar for a drink and all you doomsday sailors can actually just take a hike now if you're the one who knows how to build lifeboats which group of people are you going to help'''

a very detailed game plan as far as how we could roll this out Nationwide so let's check that out this is a list of all of the community colleges that are found in my state there's 15 of them and what I've done is mapped them out circled their main campus locations with a 5 10 and 25 mile radius if we if we go after the Community College as the the main Central Hub to prop up they've got alumni funding State funding Federal funding they've got the structures there they've got the classrooms but what we could do is we could design and build them an edible landscape to where they can teach indoor and outdoor things that pertain to permaculture and other regenerative agricultural techniques there's plenty of things that they could be teaching if they taught those things to those students and then those students then went out into their local communities and propped up their own jobs then we can then we can have a circular economy that's centralized around an agrarian lifestyle and it would be deeply healing to the planet it would ensure food security and I think it would build community and it would stabilize a very hostile situation that we find ourselves in so I think it's a good idea to to you know reach out to the permaculture designers that are out there in their communities that they might they may or may not have set up Homestead or a demonstration site but if we if we partner with those that are already embedded in their communities and we bring this technology in this Clear Vision of the landscape then they can advise their local their local government officials city planners they can team up with Conservancy efforts and Forestry efforts setting up nature corridors they could be working with everybody who has a tractor to go out and terraform their Landscapes so that we can start banking water in the ground instead of pulling it up so I mean we could be deeply impactful if each Community was to focus and proliferate inside of that 25 mile radius if every college campus in every state and Country then we could act in unison almost and rapidly change the situation


watered my fields today, to the point that my water pump seems to have taken damage from it. I'd rather not have to replace it.. on the upside, peas have started peeking up


thanks for ur post anon


Looks like normal urban design to me, how is this reforestation? Would be more based if it was actual forests being built in cities, forests several kilometers wide crossing cities.


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There's a based-cringe gradient, with large scale, effectively wild forests intersecting and blending with cities on the one side, and on the other side just sticking single trees on a median.


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rigged a thing for watering, and it even works without the pump. hopefully this should get more of the veggies going


the left side is the field I have already posted, and the right side has the hemp I've planted without bothering to make nice rows, to see what happens. I also "planted" some hemp by just throwing the seed on uncultivated grass
I might plant some fast growing taters too, but other than that my plan is to cultivate some more small fields for next year. I'm thinking of leaving strips of grass between the fields


looks good anon but you really ought to cover the soil somehow.


part of it is actually covered with grass clippings. I'm not really sure how I'm supposed to squeeze two seasons worth of growth in there. we still have plenty of snow in march and april. maybe that's another reason to keep strips of grass - just have the mower throw the cut grass into the fields
interestingly I mowed a thick patch of grass under which was a cover of dead tall grass. I have patches of this where I've burned heaps of worthless broadleaved trees and branches. maybe I should burn more of that in strategic places, say on the aforementioned grass strips
germinating certain seeds might be useful to get them going earlier without having to actually plant them indoors. sadly this doesn't work for hemp in my experiments so far, but mung beans might be worthwhile..
I also have oh another 4 hectares of fallow fields that I could "harvest", except the hectare that the local moose population uses for grazing


call every local tree woodchipping company and ask them to dump woodchips on your property, just give them your address. otherwise go buy bulk woodchips. dont mix them into the soil, just leave them sitting there. plant trees. its more longterm approach


anon I have 9 hectares of trees. I could get a chipper maybe, because there's oodles of what we call sly, worthless young deciduous trees like salix and sorbus


>I'm thinking of leaving strips of grass between the fields
Bad idea. The grass will wander into the fields. Strip away the entire grass+grassroots layer and cover with whatever, such as wood chips.


May not need to strip it away, and it's better for the soil not to. If you just dump a layer of woodchips on top that can kill the grass while preserving the integrity of the soil. But you may see more success if you cover it first with something biodegradable like old newspaper. Ofc if it's a lot of space that's easier said than done.


>The grass will wander into the fields
that's why I cultivate
>Ofc if it's a lot of space that's easier said than done
it's only 200 m² or so at the moment


ancient permaculture

luxurious ruins

built by the people for the people

all it takes is a block of land

for a paradise to be created

even the bible told us









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Thinking about free-ranging quail but they can fly so I'm considering getting a species that's native to my area (and endangered to boot) so that I can feel better about any escapes.


cute birdies


Neat. Always go for the native species option if you can because they will do better in the local conditions and not potentially threaten other native species.


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hemp, salad and peas are showing up. plenty of weeds in the fields because this is again the first year I'm tilling this soil. should hopefully get more and more pulverized every year and less grass in it


A few years ago I built 4 2'x4' raised beds out of the old fence we had replaced. Filled them with dirt. Never planted anything. Now it's just weeds I pick out every few months. They are located on the side of the house next to an 8 foot fence. So they get decent indirect sunlight and shade, unlike the rest of the yard that's basically the south texas sun death rays all the time.

What should I plant there? What do I need to do? Do I just grab a few bulbs of garlic and plant them now in july and wait? I feel like the cost of new soil, labor, storage, and water would outweigh the cost of just getting more garlic at the store?


cost usually isn't the motivator here. you could aim for planting various cash crops like chilli and herbs


idk how your climate is but that doesn't sound like much sun to me. Maybe grow leafy greens and herbs there and try growing stuff under shade cloth in other parts of the yard?


alternatively, you could create shade in those sunnier spots by growing trees


also focus on perennials for the biggest bang for you buck




Beautiful thank u anon


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The forestry industry needs to bring back coppicing and pollarding.


forestry mostly focuses on producing lumber. this might change as we move to more biofuels


does any1 agree with my unhinged potsmoking rant from earlier in the year,…?


I obviously don't agree entirely, however I did and do appreciate them.


your a real one, tank sister :praying hands:


Most of my yard is dead. I just bought a thatch rake. I’m gonna be so swole with so much hay for compost in my little garden beds. Call me Johnny apple sneed. Call me green buns. Call me, please. Just call me. I’ve raked so much.


update: Oh fuck this is exhausting. There's so much fucking thatch. My hands are blistering at the metacarpals.


I hope you're wearing gloves for that.


I am but I was still getting blisters from the glove rubbing on the internal side of the metacarpal base of the thumb. Like I’m literally raking wrong or that my grip was wrong. I have it in the same spot on both hands so presumably my technique is just wrong.


They call me Johnny Appleseed, they call me Green Thumb, they call me Big Rake, they call me Shed, they call me Peanut Seedbuckle


You may just not be used to it. Even with ideal grip and technique you will still develop blisters if you aren't used to that kind of repetitive movement.


I am the Thatcher. I thatch thatch.
I’m used to slowly growing callouses from guitar and lifting. This is just in such a weird spot I’m not used to.


Different grips will put friction different places in your hand, so yeah.


I’ve been trying to do thumbs along the shaft as a grip now, it makes shovel and pitchfork work just fine but I haven’t tried thatching again. Thanks for the tip, senpai.

Blog post time. Basically no one has cared for the yard since my grandad died a decade+ ago. Things have slowly died and been removed over the years.
Yesterday I took some rocks and mulch that were decorative and made cute little tree rings around the 2 trees that are left, making sure the mulch wasn’t too thick, the rest of it went in the front of house beds that still have some living stuff in it. With the back strip stuff removed I had room to move the 4 raised beds I made a few years back to along the back fence. Had to scoop out all the previous dirt and remove all the bricks I used to make walk ways. These beds were previously in the side of house garden bed so I tried to even out the soil and I covered it with fabric and boxes for whenever I get around to planting. Cool part is the dirt looks so much healthier than the rest of the dirt in the yard. With some of those leftover pavers I made a little platform along the driveway for the 3 garbage bins to stand on.

I really think I need to get a giant truck load of dirt for the whole yard, but before I do that I need to finish dethatching and get an aerator. hopefully the dirt plugs and dead grass can fill up the standing beds a bit.

I’d also like to xeriscape a bit of the front yard. Make a big island where the oak used to be and plant some big beautiful bushes that don’t need much attention. Maybe install rocks on the hell strip. This shit just gets so expensive. And my body is exhausted today from all those little projects yesterday. Part of the fun though is that I won’t need to go to the gym for a while, I guess.


Went to chain store and found some sad plants on clearance so I got a Mexican heather and 2 little Japanese ferns. The Heather goes in the pond garden and the ferns went into little pots on the patio. New soil and mulch. It’s so fun to play in the dirt. Let’s see if I can keep them alive!


There are four bushes in the front yard. The first is a beautiful stemmy thing that looks like it should be next to a Japanese pond. It’s doing fine. The other three are supposed to be some kind of box hedge thing. They are at least 40 years old and each one is dying in its own way. I spent some time today cutting off dead branches. The first I think is infected and getting too much sun. The second has ivy growing in it, stealing its resources. The third was humming and I was confused until I cut off a large dying branch only to have strange black wasps fly out of the dead tree. I quickly ran away. Later, I went to the back yard. A few years ago I let a weed grow into a tree, eventually cut it down. The stump is still in the garden bed. Today I pulled out an 6 foot long 4 inch wide root. Fun times. Tried to axe+hammer the stump a bit. Exhausting and didn’t do much damage.

I also tried out my manual aerator. It looks like a pogo stick that produces dog turds. It was fun to use.






Today I went to a giant seed factory that works with the state government and universities to produce native seeds for farmers and such. I got a small pouch of native wild flower seeds I’m going to plant along the dead strip along the fence in the back yard. I will need to clear and til the whole area, maybe 4ft by 100ft. I’ll need to get enough dirt to cover it 1/4 inch or so. I’m excited to see if anything grows.

I also went to habitat for humanity and found some nice tools for dirt cheap. most all my grandfathers tools are rusted out and refurbishing them would be a whole project in itself. Anything I’ve bought in the past decade has also been pretty used, abused, and forgotten. So I got loppers, sheers, trowel, transplanter, cultivator, a rubber mallet, steel brush, watering can, sprinkler, nozzle, and a nozzle with a stake on it. All for less than 60 bucks total.

I am equipped.


Bought some on sale, already opened soil from box store. Got a salvia plant and popped it next to the heather. It is very cute.


I primed and painted the rusty ol wheelbarrow. It’s now a very cute orange and blue! I still need to replace the wheel.

I also kept working on that fucking stump. A few more roots clipped, but god damn is that hard work.


Fuck this stump. I got a 2 inch blister that ripped off my skin from shoveling at the stump. God fucking damn it. I’m so close. It finally jiggles. Fuck stumps.


Have you tried digging a wider hole and cutting from below?


The stump itself grew into basically a spiked rock flowerbed that’s about 2 feet tall, I have been digging a wider and wider hole as I go but it’s been difficult to maneuver around. Today it finally started working when I hit it with a hammer or pushed it with my foot which leads me to believe there’s only a few more roots down there.


What tools are you using? I find a good spade can be real helpful… that and really good rock music to work to.


The injury was from a shovel from the 1970s. I was mostly using it because of the kinda pointed tip. The shorter newer spade(?) I have is flat so I thought it would be difficult to get into the hole. I also have a some mallets(?), some metal bars I was trying for leverage with, bigger saw that didn’t fit, one of those little Japanese style hand saws, two sizes of loppers, some tiny hand shovels.

Also I checked it just now after having it soak in a puddle all day, it now bends 45 degrees in one direction. I’ll have to look at it tomorrow in the sun or when I can use my hand again.







I transplanted this weird spikey palm thing to where the stump was. I put the stump on a pike to warn other stumps and a lizard friend liked the view. I finished half the rock trim in the front, running out of easy rocks but I only have about 20 feet left, so it’s fine. Mulched more of the back garden. Things are slowly starting to come together!


Do I blog that I got wasted instead of working on the yard? Well, I did. It rained yesterday so I don’t gotta water shit.


What's a good ground cover for an orchard in a subtropical climate?


depends on the trees, depends on the specific region, find a native local plant that has some symbiotic relationship with the trees of the orchard. not only that, use multiple plants. use bushes or something. dont do monoculture


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The only property I have control over is an apartment in the 10th floor of a building. It gets a decent amount of sunlight and warmth.

I could just fill it with typical isolated pots and houseplants on a shelf, sure, but is there any way I can create a little ecosystem, or a carbon-containing oasis?
I have legal control for the most part, I'm not a tennant, but I can't make a tiny grassland and backburn it or get my neighbors swarmed with pesty insects.
Preferably something that can look nice or at least intentional and not like I have an uncontained mold problem.


Are there any community gardens near you?
You can do a lot with house plants, my neighbor has one that he moves outside when it's warm and at first I assumed he was transplanting a tree. its huge. That oughta suck up some carbon also it looks nice
As for creating an ecosystem; do you have a balcony? I'd stuff it full of native plants for the birds and bees to enjoy. Maybe make a little rain garden. If not my next thought is to look into making terrariums but if you're only objective is to contribute to improving the environment however marginally than that might not satisfy you.


Anon, depending on your skills, you can do A LOT

I suggest going down to Home Depot and buying about 20 small flower pots and lining them up against the bottom row of your window. fill them with INDOOR potting soil (not outdoor, and NOT "organic", you don't want bugs, get the most capitalist processed shit you can find like Miracle Grow. Just trust me

Then start planting seeds. Go to the seed store and buy like 20 little bags of seeds. Plant them randomly in your pots and see what starts growing. Start planting the seeds from your fruits and vegetables and seeing if they sprout. Start collecting seeds from your local environment and growing them. It will help you learn the life cycles of your local plants

Let me be real anon, that window space is basically equivalent to a plot of land of that size. Its just much more limited and you cant build interlinked root systems as easily unless you use long trough flower beds, which id suggest not doing when you start. using individual flower pots will help you understand the water requirements of individual plants better, and prevent pest and fungus spreading

You can also build shelving units upward, or create a hanging pot wire system, to have multiple layers of pots all the way up the window, as much as your heart desires

Do not let yourself think you can't grow a healthy thriving and productive garden in that space, because trust me you CAN do it.

Start with succulents and do NOT hesitate to go ahead and buy some plants which you can't practically grow from seed, nothing wrong with buying plants to learn this process. think of it like, you are growing the plants in your brain, moreso than growing them by your window. those plants by your window don't matter. you can start learning NOW


Also, start small scale at first. Learning to deal with mold, fungus, and pest bugs is your first priority honestly. You'll also have to revise your cleaning habits significantly, and start regularly dusting and vacuuming. So start small at first or it will get overwhelming and you will more likely fail


Mainly fingerlimes, some macadamia trees as well. Region is eastern Australia, but that's the extent I'll disclose. Have taken over a rundown 5-acre farmstead, so keen to figure out what to plant.


Thanks comrade.
I've started with a few succulents because it's a warm environment and they're tough and low maintenance, and I've managed to keep them alive for a few months so I think I'm ready for some herbs.

Unfortunately no open area that a bird or bee would visit. There are a couple of community gardens I can try visiting now that you mention it, so I can go see what's up there.


u ppl think asking random people in neighborhoods if you can garden on their lawn is viable?


youtube people do it a lot. depends on what you mean by viable




How did our resident gardeners do this summer?
I managed to get 25 pounds of cherry tomatoes, 15 pounds of potatoes (still harvesting these) and 20 or so heads of garlic (which I'll be replanting shortly) stored away on top of what i've already eaten. Unfortunately the weather around here was not ideal this year- bone dry spring followed up with a very wet June and a relatively cool August. I appreciated it personally but my plants didn't and it rendered the rain water harvesting setup I put together last year pretty useless. Everything else that was planted (peppers, beans, radishes) was a bust
Next year Im going to plant way more potatoes and I want to give artichokes a go, supposedly the latter grows like a weed around here and are very a good source of calories


nice. I've got a small list of crops I plan to plant next year, though I'm unhappy because I know I've barely started.


nice job anon. have u considered permaculture? are u growing trees? u can even just grow them in pots if u didnt choose a location yet


Remember you can plant some stuff in the fall too. Garlic for example
>have u considered permaculture
of course. Most of the yard is wild with the 2nd biggest share being my perennials and only a small part (where I actually get decent sun) is for annuals, and even there I do a lot thats inspired by permaculture. I could go on all day about that- no till mulched hugelculture inspired raised beds properly orientated to the sun with swales as paths, a rain water harvesting collection system, no artificial fertilizers, no herbicides/pesticides- yada yada yada
>are u growing trees
the property on all sides is practically shaded out by trees so Im just putting in understory trees and shade tolerant bushes and ground cover, but yes there are two trees that I cant bring myself to remove despite stealing what little sun I have left (Im sure they have other benefits anyway) and Im also planting native trees on the northern end of the property.
I would like to get some plants in pots though, some of the best sun I have is in places where I unfortunately can't have a garden, and I would love some more indoor plants as well. I have the token ones but nothing special. They really lighten a room especially in a cold climate like mine


leaves are falling

fall is passing

winter is coming

warmth isn't lasting

what winter preparation plans do you anons have? how was your harvest?


its time to start reflecting and planning. what will yall do different next year in your gardens?


declare war on the squirrels who stole all my peanuts


dont worry, they either buried them so they will become compost, or ate them and shit them out so they are compost, they played a part in the cycle of nature and you will be better off for it in the end


total squirrel death


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We should domesticate squirrels and train them to plant seeds for us. Also beavers to help us reforest and increase the water retention of the land.


Speaking of hydration, new Andrew Millison video on pond design.


speaking of beavers, they fell trees all over a friend's property, dangerously close to his buildings at times. but he's a landlord so critical support to our beaver comrades


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Adding Jerusalem Artichokes to the rotation. In spite of the name they are neither form Jerusalem nor are they an artichoke. Rather it's a sunflower(?) that produces a delicious tuber and it's native to north America so hopefully it'll be easy to grow. Not sure if I like the taste of either this or the artichokes it supposedly resembles in taste but we'll see.
otherwise wondering if I should drop garlic in favour of more tomatoes and potatoes. I love garlic but it's so cheap where I am I dont think it's worth growing.


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Garlic is one of the best companion plants. It is good at repelling pests, small enough to easily fit, and easy to propagate. It's particularly good to plant alongside tomatoes since it goes will with them in sauces, grows lower than tomatoes, repels common tomato pests, and can enhance the flavor of the tomatoes. Tomatoes will absorb some of the chemicals of the garlic if they're planted together.

Other plants that go well with tomatoes


true though I'm pretty sure this is the case with all alliums ya? In which case my walking onions will do the job of being a natural pest repellent. Still you raise a good point, maybe I'll just stick the garlic in with the tomatoes? Can't say I've done any companion planting. I mean i did it out of laziness this year as I planted flowers, then decided I wanted a tomato bed there but couldnt bring myself to pull the flowers out so I let them coexist and while it made it a pain to prune and harvest, neither plant really seemed to suffer for it


in fact the flowers acted a trellis for the tomatoes!


You could grow whatever combination of garlic and walking onions you want based on what you intend to produce and harvest.


New Andrewism about 3 major crops useful for alternative sustainable industry: kelp, bamboo, and hemp.

Remember - permaculture isn't just about growing food.


>Jerusalem Artichokes
From my experience, they are really easy to grow. They are nice in a soup, maybe with a few potatoes and a bit of leek and then blend it all up with some cream. You can roast them in the oven as well.
But they spread very easily, and they'll keep coming back year after year unless you manage to dig up every last bit of the plant. Which can be a bit of a pain in the ass if you need the space for something else.


New Andrew Millison on the Great Green Wall


Spring is upon us, the bees are buzzing, the birds are birding. What will you plant? What have you planted? Are you ready for the harvest?

Have you planned well enough to make it through next winter?


Fascinating. I like the fact that they're not focusing on cash crops, either. I guess they could sell the excess millet and sorghum, but that's not the point.


True, but the wonderful thing about coppicing (and pollarding, but it's more limited) is that you can get so much usable timber out of a coppice. Everything from faggots (I mean bundles of sticks) to fence posts, if you're willing to wait long enough and have the right species. People even used to make houses out of wood derived from Coppices.

It's entirely sustainable too, and creates habitats mimicing Old-Growth or Ancient woodland. You can also have a Coppice with Standards, which is where you leave some trees uncoppiced (standard) and harvest them as and when. You could have these be big hardwoods or fruit trees, if you want to get some agroforestry going.


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If they allowed cash crops to influence this it would quickly corrupt the project and miss the point entirely. The cash crops would outcompete the alternatives since the people planting those would be able to reinvest the cash back into the project and grow the amount they were planting. Over time they would come to dominate and the ethos would shift towards typical cash crop production, which is to say maximally exploiting the land and failing at regenerative agriculture. Although this kind of project has a major defense against that dynamic: it's by nature using the least desirable land. Anybody trying to make money on cash crops would rather invest in growing somewhere more ideal. It might become a problem as the project continues if it successfully holds or pushes back the desertification.

IDK how viable coppiced wood would be for construction in the present day, at least for housing. It certainly has a lot of uses however, and would serve as a very useful component of a permaculture project, since the coppiced wood could be used for things like fences, trellises, retaining walls, hugelkultur, etc while being biodegradable.


>Spring is upon us
still about a meter of snow where I live
>What will you plant?
taters, sugar snaps, carrots, salad at the very least. none of the multi-year plants I planted took root. will try to pre-plant some raspberry and whatnot. I will also continue my hemp experiments
a friend of mine is interested in helping out this season. I told him he can plant however much he wants, I'm at no risk of running out of land that can be farmed with the tools I have


I'm going to arrange what is basically a coppice by cutting down about a hectare's worth of worthless leafy trees, but for the purpose of feeding the local game (deer, moose) once they start sprouting fresh branches at grazing height


Present day? Nowhere near uniform enough for moden construction, but I just brought it up as an example of how important it was in the past. Wattle and Daub was a popular building technique used by many cultures across the world, and in England the wood needed would have come from coppices. We could probably find a use for it in the present day.


make sure you divide the hectare up and do it on a cycle, then, as the wildlife will likely get through the patch you cut quite quickly, and probably wont give it time to recover if they aren't given another food source.


they already graze other parts of it quite heavily with no ill effect, other than there being basically a hectare of knee-high shrubs


also funny thing: I originally considered that shrub area to be completely useless and offered to sell it to some friends. but now that I'm into hunting I realize it's actually useful and I want to grow the local roe deer and moose population


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It's still used in some places but it's rare. It's also the same principle behind concrete + rebar.


I hadn't though of that, but I suppose you're right.

I volunteered with my local wildlife trust about 10 years ago to help coppice a patch of woodland near me. I've been back once or twice since then, but not recently. I might go there on Saturday to see if I can find the old patch. I'll take some pictures share them here

That's the problem! If you want to coppice it, you'll want to let it grow back up before cutting it again. At the moment the herbivores are essentially keeping it as a grove or field, so if you want any kind of taller vegetation you'll have to fence it off somehow.

Having said all that, I'm not sure what type of habitats Roe and Moose prefer to live in. Roe definitely hide in woodland during the day, and I see them feeding in fields too, but do they prefer high forest, or immature woodland with a low canopy, like you'd find in a coppice after a few years of growth?


>so if you want any kind of taller vegetation you'll have to fence it off somehow
anon the entire point is to feed said herbivores. me and the neighbor have dubbed it "the buffet". I want them to become regulars, because my hunting stand is right next to it
>Having said all that, I'm not sure what type of habitats Roe and Moose prefer to live in. Roe definitely hide in woodland during the day, and I see them feeding in fields too, but do they prefer high forest, or immature woodland with a low canopy, like you'd find in a coppice after a few years of growth?
they prefer border areas and young forests with saplings that are easy to graze (to the chagrin of forest companies). old forests don't provide much besides bark, which only red deer tend to eat, and we don't have any red deer where I live


Alright then, it sounds like you know what you're doing. When you've done it, be sure to let us know how well it works (if the website still exists then).


>if the website still exists then
wdym? also yeah I'll try to keep the thread posted on my land use shenanigans


Just that these things can take a while, and there's lots of talk about how about how we're hemorrhaging users. It'll probably be here for years to come, though.
I look forward to hearing about your endeavours!


Got my first compost pile up to 50C. Feels good anons. Won't use this pile in my veggies, but hopefully will make 70C with the next pile


naisu. I've finally had luck with compost for the first time and I think the difference was not using the black plastic container and instead just piling it up on the ground. I'm guessing the container in full sun got too hot and dried things out whereas the pile is in the shade most of the time. The container also made it pretty much impossible to flip/mix it up occasionally but that alone shouldn't have prevented it from breaking down but rather would just slow things down (hot vs cold compost). Still didn't make enough to replace imports but it's nice to get some use out of grass clippings and kitchen scraps.
Speaking of compost the county gave everyone a green bin for free and collects organics biweekly. On the one hand it's nice for those people that don't garden but it goes to show how valuable your biomass is and Ill be damned if Im going to give it away just to have the city sell it back to me. That bin will be collecting dust in the garage


Today I can finally contribute to this thread in more ways than just treating it like a generic gardening blog as this weekend I'll be making liquid fertilizer out of materials sourced entirely from my property which I think fits the permaculture theme. I'll say in advance that I'm still an utter novice so don't take this poor man's effort post too seriously and I'll happily be corrected on anything but for the sake of reviving this somewhat dead thread for the new season, here's the post:
It was in the previous thread way back in 2022 that I told yall that I purchased Bocking 14 Comfrey root cuttings and they are just now finally producing enough foliage that I feel comfortable harvesting it, for as the saying goes, first year plants sleep, second year they creep, third year they leap.
Comfrey is a neat plant as it's a "dynamic accumulator". There seems to be some debate as to whether this is even a thing–wiki claims there's zero scientific evidence to support it–but its such an accepted notion at least in the popular permaculture sphere that I'm running with it. The claim is that these plant put down deep tap-roots that pull minerals and nutrients up from the sub soil, where it's useless for a lot of other plants, and stores it in its leaves. By either waiting for the plant to die back in the fall or manually harvesting said leaves, these resources can be returned back to the topsoil for more shallow rooted plants to enjoy. Allegedly. This combined with the plants vigorous growing habits, allowing it to be harvested multiple times per season, means it's an extremely handy plant to have in the garden. It's potential uses are many, from companion planting to a source of nutritious biomass for mulch, composting or making liquid fertilizer. It's deep and thick tap-root loosens up the soil removing the need to commit the extremely destructive task of tilling the earth, at least in it's immediate vicinity, and it's flowers are an excellent source of pollen and nectar for our pollinator friends. Additionally, this particular cultivar of comfrey is sterile as I want to at least minimize the potential of introducing non-natives to the wider area. It can only spread through root cuttings.
Speaking of the plants propensity to grow, it's currently still too early to do much and the trees are only just putting out their leaves yet the comfrey is in some cases several feet tall. Without having any experience with harvesting it to inform my speculation, judging by it's rate of growth so early in the season I suspect I'll get four or five cuttings out of each plant this year. Most of this will simply be used as chop and drop mulch for the garden but for this first batch, as previously mentioned, I'll be making liquid fertilizer.
So the plan, as derived from online guides, is to put half a dozen kilograms or so of this comfrey, coarsely chopped and left to wilt for a day, into some kind of permeable bag (don't have a plan for this yet but I've read even an old pillow case will do) to be placed into a 100L barrel of the rainwater I collect before letting it marinate for 2-4 weeks. After decomposing the resulting liquid, which I've read is extremely stinky so I'll be sure to place the barrel far away from the house, can be applied straight onto the garden and is capable of feeding even the most nutrient hungry plants such as tomatoes. One can also make a concentrate that can be diluted 1:100 by filling the aforementioned 100L barrel completely with comfrey and water but alas I don't have enough of the former to do so just yet. I'm hoping this will help to fill the void my inability to create sufficient amounts of compost and my unwillingness to use synthetic fertilizers has created.
In other news, the other stereotypical permaculture plant that I've got, the Egyptian walking onion, is one of the other few plants that is not only awake by thriving, having taken over an entire 4x8 raised without much intervention by myself. I mean I was tossing a lot of the bulbils that form at the tops of the plants into the bed as I harvested the bulbs and greens last year but I was expecting them to take that year and had more or less forgotten about them when they didn't, so to see so many germinate after the winter is encouraging. I'll probably experiment with companion planting tomatoes in the same bed as I started way too many indoors this year.
Finally the rain water harvesting project involving 2 IBC totes continues to amaze me. You really don't need much surface area or rain to fill those bad boys up. I've taken to draining them at the highest point of the yard just because I know it won't be long before they're full again, at least during the spring


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finally started re-tilling the same field as last year >>34175 using the rotary cultivator
I'm trying something new this year - tilling strips with grass between them. the idea is to run the ride mower inbetween, throwing grass clippings as cover and extra fertilization as it breaks down
due to time constraints I only got to making about 3 meters of a grow bed. the soil is definitely more "clay-y" compared to last year's clumpiness, probably from having been broken up yet more. this is promising. the more I till the less weeds and grass that can take root
sharp eyes will notice actual plants in the third picture. I pre-cultivated for 2½ weeks in my apartment this year, rather than sowing right in the ground. hopefully this gives my crops a better chance. I have more pre-cultivated plants to plant but I didn't have time
planted so far:
>bell peppers
>plum tomatoes
>iceberg lettuce
>three of last year's carrots that emerged when tilling
visible in the first pic is another experiment: I'm covering the ground with tarps and stuff to try and smother weeds in preparation for tilling next year
forming the bed from wet muddy soil definitely felt like vidrel
>dennis! there's some lovely filth down here!


Be aware that the grass will try to take over the beds. You might want to put some kind of barrier to help avoid this. There are various barrier plants that will do the job, or you could use something like mulch.


oh, I think I was thinking of using the grass as mulch. maybe it's more sensible to just till a big 'ol square like last year


You can use grass clippings as mulch, but if it's growing next to the bed with no barrier you will have grass trying to grow into the beds. You are better off not having grass directly between the beds. You can drop cardboard on the grass to kill it without tilling though. Tilling will make the are more prone to erosion. If you're planting new things their roots will deal with that, but if you are leaving the area as a path you're better off just dropping mulch on top of the existing soil periodically (after you kill the grass).


>You can drop cardboard on the grass to kill it without tilling though
I tilled it last year so it should be sufficiently loose to till it this year too. as I mentioned the soil is improving in looseness thanks to tilling
it's not a very large area though. but maybe I can make another experimental patch somewhere. I have over 4 hectares to play with
>leaving the area as a path
nah there's plenty of space to walk around
also I need a mulch collector I guess. after I fix the mower. the ignition is off ever since I replaced the generator stator. I even adjusted the magneto's airgap. no dice >_<


update: I planted some taters, beans and carrots. also tilled away the strip of grass visible in >>42244 . forgot to take pictures. what I planted before seems to be surviving, but there were some yellow leaves. gave everything a good soak with the hose since there hasn't been much rain
there weren't any seed potatoes anywhere in town, so I had to resort to potatoes from the store. I've split them up into two groups: one that went straight in the ground and a second that I will sprout indoors before planting
oh and I bought a new machine key for the mower. turns out the old key had sheared which is why the ignition was off. unfortunately the new key was of the wrong size, so the motor backfired and the new key also sheared. ordering some new ones and will shim them in place if they don't fit perfectly


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I got three new machine keys. unfortunately my car decided to stop working so I can't get to my house to fix the mower, and I was planning on having guests over, and also my hot water heater broke and it's looking like I won't have time to get up, fix all this, get the lawn mowed etc etc. grrr

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