No.33648[Last 50 Posts]
Old thread (v1):
https://leftypol.org/hobby/res/7136.htmlThe practice and principles of Permaculture are one of the most important tools for not only creating a sustainable socialism, but also for repairing the damage done to the global ecosystem by capitalism, and lessening your individual reliance on the current capitalist system.Permacultural practice and socialism are two very powerful allies, and learning about permaculture should be necessity for modern socialists and communists.
No.33650
>>33648Anons I'm so proud we filled an entire permaculture thread, let's make v2 even better
No.33651
Archive of previous bread →
https://archive.is/8jNjO No.33653
>>33648 (OP)
Modern agriculture changes the land to allow growing huge fields of the same crop continuously. This isn't how plants grow in nature. In nature, it's a mixture of different kinds of plants, from large to small trees, and from grasses to fungi and wildlife.
This diverse ecosystem allows nature to maintain stability against changing climates rather than being vulnerable to adverse weather events like monoculture crops, or to being wiped out by swarms of insects.
It's more labor intensive, but it's also what we need. The working class is the leader of humanity's future destiny, since we are the most numerous and most productive. we must achieve permaculture, which is a mode of agricultural production only supportable by socialism
much like the bourgeois represses or fails to develop or fund technology which increases decentralization of the means of production, like torrent software, they must also suppress more productive ecologies capable of allowing robust and decentralized production and consumption of food
only through centralization of agriculture can food take on a commodity form, and communally maintainable and productive land would pose an alternative to needing commodified food at all, which breaks a vital coercive measure of capital to bind the working class to capitalist societies rather than decentralized ones maintained by the workers themselves
permaculture grants the working class, an extension of their skin and digestive system which they themselves can control. bourgeois control of food is much like biological slavery, only through each individual being able to control their own means of food production, through a community which itself can, through a town, principality, nation and entire Earth which can, can the working class be made free of bourgeois labor coersion efforts
No.33654
>>33653you may say, this monoculture lets you decrease harvesting and administration labor through linear scaling of human labor efforts through simple agricultural devices. to this the clear reply is that in the coming near future, and arguably present, we have the capability to achieve this same automation with permaculture at large scales, through advanced robotics and robotic aids of human labor.
historical arguments lay flat in the necessity of drastic reinventing at each present in time of the means of production through a scientific understanding of reality, and the latest reality requires stable ecological niches rather than mass genocide of exotic plant life in favor of just one plant chosen for some arbitrary metric like shippability, shelf life, or color. one woman's weed is another one's medicine, another one's building material. we cannot lose any more life, capitalism is a sick machine with sicker side-effects, that cannot be kept as the global coordinator of labor any longer, given the serious threats we face and the more advanced form of labor organization we must achieve, than crude wage-coerced and private forms
No.33655
>>33654the psychotic urge to destroy an entire forest, to harvest wood for some trivial use, generates profit, contrasted against the immense loss of the rest of the forest, its soil, mycelial networks, insects, small animals, and even apex predators, then water reservoirs, windbreaks, rivers, maybe lakes all protected by that forest. all aligned within a mesh of interactions maintaining a healthy ecosystem, utterly destroyed to create a series of inert tables with an expected lifetime less than even a few decades or years in many cases. this utterly deranged, alien behavior is the work of not just the owning class, but capital itself, this behemoth burden and simultaneous lifelink, how do we migrate over life from capitalism to something else? with food and water most foremost.
No.33656
>>33655in trying times, a man could look to the sky, listen to the rain, follow the eagle, and be guided to salvation among nature. capitalist enclosure of nature aims to prevent this. they dont want us living on big chunks of land with forests on them that have been sculpted over generations to provide for an entire person's nutrition needs and even some medicinal uses, along with water access, they don't want healthy environments allowing more makeshift and temporary living conditions with fewer materials, and conversely, they also really don't want reinforced cement commie blocks embedded within these self sustaining ecosystems, allowing large groups of people to live in a very sustainable and reliable way, without massive labor inputs required and without coerced wage labor. they do not want us to achieve communism in any way, and there are many avenues they use to oppress us to prevent us, which means there are many ways to do it or help reinforce it
No.33657
>>33656a return to primitivist living is clearly not the answer to class struggle under capitalism. and yet in many ways a return to nature and primitive ways of living is what we need regardless. because of the increased productivity of nature and persistent and decentralized means of production, socialism can allow stabilization of non-oppressive labor requirements and resource distribution scenarios, sidestepping the requirement to work divided in the way the capitalists would have us divide labor
through elimination of some forms of consumption, entire forms of labor become unnecessary. through local production of food the entire agricultural shipping industry is eliminated. through universalizing food and housing access, the entire landlordism and landlordism financing industry can be eliminated in its necessity of scale. but this is surely a decrease in complexity and a return to something more primitive. yet how is it eliminating so much labor by primitivizing? because it is socializing the means of production and organizing people at a higher level of advancement than before, beyond what is capable of being achieved by the anti-social instruments of capital
No.33658
>>33657the elimination of the commodity form must first mean the creation of non-commodity forms, grown from the pre-existing conditions of commoditization of all resources for creating other resources. only through direct relationships to the means of production, combined with socialized and decentralized distribution and access to the means of production, can the commodity form be eliminated. this does not have to mean a decrease in industrial efficiency. it can also entail a radical shift in value systems and necessity for material wealth to begin with, as we must note how many are themselves simply generated by the poverty of conditions under capitalism itself, driving weird compulsions to consume in one way or another, which would not otherwise be felt in a satisfying lifestyle, allowing yet more labor requirements to be eliminated. this re-primitivization simultaneously generates a richer and more robust life, and decreases how much we all must work.
socialism requires less labor than capitalism through these effects
No.33659
>>33658and no wonder it is nature itself that developed the most self-transformative system, given the seasons imposing variable survival conditions. only through using nature itself, not attempting to take nature apart and use its inert pieces to build something new, no rather through using living nature, as it stood, for as much as possible. given all that it can offer and how utopian it is, why should the availability of some luxuries like jewelry be expected and yet not the availability of survivable forest refuges for relaxation? communism doesn't have to be kept on a clock forcing people to work at the right time, rather the systems on which we work should be designed entirely to accomodate us, not us accomodate them, as mere cogs in machines of diverse parts, as diverse as the facets of the division of labor imposed by the capitalist class, and as those are removed more and more over time through human advancement of our species and our ecosystem, we can achieve utopian primitivism, that most wholesome and natural form of living, out in nature as much as possible, and yet protected through advanced technological society
No.33660
Permaculture is love
No.33668
What if I want turmeric and peppercorn, and my permaculture garden isn't in a tropical climate
No.33674
>>33668>use greenhouse techniques to grow tropicals in your region>get it from somewhere elsespices in particular last well when kept dry, and take small amounts, so they're a perfect choice for international trade if it's hard to grow certain spices in certain regions. at the same time, local spices are often neglected and could be built up. maybe you have a replacement ingredient for those two locally that almost tastes similar, or good enough
No.33675
>>33674What if I just don't want to operate a greenhouse along with a farm and want to live in a city instead
No.33677
Well, anons, I've recently become lucky enough to have the opportunity to purchase land where I can start a permaculture project. Does anyone have any beginner's resources? I've watched a few videos about basic permaculture principles, but a step-by-step guide to site selection and forest foundations would be sweet. My aim is for a 5-10 acre max land parcel located in a subtropical region.
No.33678
>>33668You don't have to source every food item from the local produce. The point is that a lot of it can be done closer to the point of consumption. You would do that for crops you eat a lot of, like potatoes, doesn't matter as much for things you eat less than a pound of per year.
>>33675You can put permaculture production in cities in or alongside parks, so the stuff is nearby for your supply. And greenhouses for certain kinds of things can be put on rooftops. And also of course incorporated into the sprawl. Permaculture is not solely the agricultural aspect but (best case) incorporates architecture and city planning/engineering too. Permaculture combines well with better city planning in general, because higher density walkable urban centers mean more land becomes available for other things. It takes a significant amount of land per person to feed even with improved yields, so that's a plus. It would also enable growing back more forests for carbon sequestration, putting back trees where a lot of (redundant) farmland exists today, replacing suburban sprawls with permaculture types of farms, and reconfiguring cities to be more ideal for human habitation in terms of density, amenities, layout, etc. Less dense than super metropolises but much more dense than suburbs, you know, mid-rise multi-purpose mixed-zone buildings.
No.33720
You walk out of your apartment and exit the commie block. It looks like you just entered a forest. You take a walk, eating some wild berries and doing a bit of weeding that needs to be done, indicated on the digital work queue. You follow your augmented reality glasses to a beautiful clearing full of weeds and get to work.
Carrying your sacks of weeds back to the compost area you pick an apple and some berries for a snack. Then you take a few hour fishing break to catch lunch. At the edge of the forest you find a high speed rail node and take it to the city. Youre dropped off and grab an electric scooter to ride on the tree lined streets, meant for small vehicles only.
You love work because its free associative labor you chose to volunteer at, and since you got lucky and this form of work was in high demand , you receive thanks from the community and a beautiful pendant you proudly display
After work you meet your family at the village canteen where you cook together and share stories
Return home merrily, you dream of the next day. Tomorrows a farming day, where you'll be taken to the countryside to help sewing the seeds
All is good in the world
No.33832
Now is the time to grow plants comrades
No.33905
>>33867this looks amazing, however i am not paying. please, pdf, i cant find it on libgen
No.34117
someone convince me not to plant these non-native seeds I spent 80 bucks on
No.34118
>>34117Permaculture isn't necessarily against doing that. If the species isn't invasive there's not that much of an issue. Also worth considering that climate change is going to wreck a lot of ecosystems and we're going to have to adapt by introducing a lot of non-native species that are already adapted to the new conditions.
>>34109Depends on the soil you have. Some soil will drain faster than others. You may not need to do anything but dig a hole if the drainage is slow enough. The video seems on point if that's the kind of pond you want. If you don't have a natural source of clay nearby you might be able to find some natural clay at a pottery supply store.
No.34147
I bought a rotary cultivator today, plan on getting at least part of my land into shape to where I can at least plant 'taters. 5 horsepower. I have 4 ha of fields that has laid fallow for probably 20 years, I'll only be able to turn a fraction of it
No.34148
>>34109like what the other anon said look for low drainage, ion that much about permaculture but I do know a decent amount about wetland ecology, chances are a slow draining area might already have some wetland plants growing there or maybe even a vernal pool. point is find the area where collects the most and drains the least and start there, if your in the tidewater region and send lawns pics I could verify cuz you do have shit like eastern star eye grass and blunt spikerush randomly growing in poorly drained lawns.
No.34149
>>34148>>34109Also good advice.
Look up where there are wetlands near you and try to get some transplants form there maybe, they'll already be adapted to the conditions. If you do some research you might be able to find some information from your local wildlife department or something some material about local plants. If you're trying to attract particular animals you can probably find a guide specific to them. Frogs vary a bit so it depends on the species probably. If you find a plant that they like to lay eggs on that is probably a good one to go for since it's so important to them.
No.34150
>>34118>>34148>>34149Thanks. I have a few spots that flood after big rains and my soil has plenty of clay so I'll give it a try
Torn about whether to put it in the shade or sun.. I don't want to have to fill it manually so shade would cut down on evaporation but then I worry that the lack of sun will create a less then ideal habitat for the critters its meant for? Also will this be a breeding ground for mosquitoes?
No.34152
>>34150>I don't want to have to fill it manually so shade would cut down on evaporation but then I worry that the lack of sun will create a less then ideal habitat for the critters its meant forThat depends on what critters it's meant for exactly and what their environment prefers. If they like plants that need sun and you can put them in, they will provide the shade for example. Devil's in the details. A lot of permaculture is just learning specifics of the organisms and other features you incorporate into the system.
>Also will this be a breeding ground for mosquitoes?Mosquitoes will breed in any standing water they can find. If you already have puddles forming in the area they already have an opportunity to lay their eggs. If you're worried about it there are plants that repel mosquitoes. Citronella is a commonly used one that's often easy to get.
No.34153
>>34150your def onto to something cuz some species will prefer shade over sun, considering amphibians are exothermic but also need moisture a mix of both sounds ideal, if you wanna drop ur general region I could easily find what frogs live near you and what there ecological preferences are
No.34158
>>34147finally assembled it and manager to overfill the engine with oil because the instructions are badly translated from Italian. drained the excess oil, which had foamed a bit. letting it rest now to see if the foaming clears up
No.34159
>>34158spent about 2 hours tearing up part (about 1 are) of my 1 hectare "lawn", works pretty well. if I were serious about planting the entire thing I'd probably need a tractor
No.34168
>>34159Nice, are you planning on putting mulch down? I think it was you that mentioned potatoes. I did those for the first time this spring and man oh man did I fuck up. Everyone seen eyes on potatoes but I hadn't seen those long ass stems before so I broke them off like a retard before planting xd
>>34152>>34153Thanks guys
reading up on the frogs and wetland plants of central Ontario and I think a shallow ditch in the sun will be perfect. I live right next to a lake so there's plenty of viable habitat already anyway, I'm just giving them a place to chill. I might still give them a 3 feet deep section for hibernating but we'll see
No.34175
>>34168>Nice, are you planning on putting mulch down? I think it was you that mentioned potatoes. I did those for the first time this spring and man oh man did I fuck up. Everyone seen eyes on potatoes but I hadn't seen those long ass stems before so I broke them off like a retard before planting xdlol @ breaking off the shoots
it's probably too late to plant any annuals. there was snow on the ground into May this year. I need to look into more perennials
moose or deer have been grazing on one of my young apple trees >:(
picrel is the result of my cultivating efforts. managed to turn over about 140 m² in five hours
No.34176
>>34175 (me)
I already have some redcurrant bushes. perhaps I could clone them
strawberries would also be interesting
cabbage, swedes, sweet potato for carbs
I think I need to pay the local plant school a visit. I'd also need to set up a barrier of some sort. I know there's some barbed wire in the barn from the previous owner, and chickenwire on top would keep birds out
I also have hemp seed that I plan on planting, both to see how much biomass can be produced but also because CBD is legal here
No.34177
>>34176 (me)
speaking of perennials:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Land_Institute#Kernzaperennial grain is apparently an active area of research
No.34178
>>34176Strawberries are great for permaculture because you can easily co-plant them with other things and they propagate themselves. Just be aware of what they do and don't play nice with (look up companion planting info). But if you're as far north as it sounds like idk if strawbs grow too well. IIRC there are more cold hardy varieties though.
>I think I need to pay the local plant school a visit.This is a good idea, although they might have an ideological skew about agriculture to be aware of.
>I also have hemp seed that I plan on planting, both to see how much biomass can be produced but also because CBD is legal hereNice, you should be able to get plenty of biomass from that and be able to get a consistent source of mulch.
No.34179
>>34178plenty of people grow strawberries here, no problem in that regard
No.34180
>>34179Some advice for strawberries: the first season you grow them, pick off the flowers before they fruit. Growing fruit takes a lot of resources and if the plants can't fruit they will spend the resource they have on growing more and establishing themselves.
Less fruits = more roots.
No.34181
>>34175I have more perennials than anything. Put in two blueberries today and replaced a chokeberry that the rabbits nibbled to the ground
>I'd also need to set up a barrier of some sortYa something chewed the bark off of all of my fruit trees this year but they seem to be pulling through
>>34176I need to do currants still
>I'd also need to set up a barrier of some sortyour best bet is to plant more than you need. I gave up with barriers and the like
No.34182
>>34180oh and I forgot, you do this because the faster they get established the more productive they will be sooner. you lose out on fruits in the first season but then you get more production later.
more roots -> more fruits
No.34183
>>34180sounds a bit tedious to go and deflower (heh) the strawberries but I get the idea
>>34181>Ya something chewed the bark off of all of my fruit trees this yearcould be red deer
No.34184
>>34183>sounds a bit tedious to go and deflower (heh) the strawberries but I get the idea?
It's the same tedious as picking the fruit would be.
No.34188
>>33648What are you guys' thoughts on aquaponics? And is it possible to efficiently run a setup through a pond?
No.34189
>>34188I don't see why not but I've never seen an aquaponics setup that wasn't mostly PVC pipe and plastic containers for the fish. Something more organic would be ideal
Only possible drawbacks I can think of for the in ground setup would be that controlling temp and pH might harder and runoff from the pond might be bad for the environment
No.34190
>>34189>PVC pipesreminder that the phthalates used in PVC as plasticizers leaches out and is very carcinogenic
>>34188Aquaponics in a permaculture system is an emerging thing and has a lot of potential. You could argue that aquaponics conceptually is just extending permaculture to an aquatic ecosystem.
No.34202
>>34190>reminder that the phthalates used in PVC as plasticizers leaches out and is very carcinogenicwhat is the alternative? PTFE is hardly affordable. PP or PE maybe?
No.34204
>>34202PTFE is also bad, but for different reasons ("forever chemical"). I would recommend against plastics in general if you can. The effects of plastics are not well understood at this point. If you are serious about building piping you should be looking for metal in the long run. Cheap plastic tubes to get a proof of concept working is probably fine, but even putting aside health and environmental concerns, plastic degrades easier than you think, especially outdoors and being pumped with the kind of bio compounds that would be involved in aquaculture. Typical uses of PVC pipes for that are by hobbyists who aren't taking it that seriously or by companies that are trying to cut costs and skimp on building materials. Plastic pipes can be useful for things like managing wires (since they also function as insulators), but they're really a pretty bad solution for piping liquids.
No.34206
>>34204Which metal would be sufficient for piping? I'm looking to build a small setup as ancillary plant and meat production to a more traditional permaculture design, so I want something that isn't going to bankrupt me.
No.34207
>>34206Copper has been a solid standard although it's become more expensive in recent years. You should keep in mind though that none of this stuff is some iron clad rule. It's all tradeoffs. If you don't have the opportunity to get better materials, the less healthy/environmental ones will still work.
But you also might look into designing aquaponics without pipes. There might already be solutions using landscaping or other types of construction. Permaculturists tend to try to avoid relying too much on systems like pipes since they can require more maintenance. You can definitely set up an aquaponics system without needing pipes, but there would again be tradeoffs. It might require more space or it might be harder to isolate.
No.34208
>>34204y not ceramic pipes?
metal corrodes
No.34210
>>34207copper has antibacterial properties which probably isn't good in an outdoors environment. I suspect iron might be best
No.34212
>>34208Ceramics are not as common or versatile but sure. There are a lot of water management methods that use pottery and so on.
>>34210Iron rusts easily. Steel might be better. Then again rust can feed the ecosystem in some situations.
No.34213
>>34212I use iron as a catch-all term here. but yeah iron ions are beneficial to most lifeforms
>picinteresting method
No.34214
still looking into permaquaculture.. some interesting links on this page
https://freshwater-aquaculture.extension.org/pond-culture/ No.34221
picked up some perennial seeds
>Oriental garlic (Allium tuberosum)
>rucola (Eruca vesicaria)
>wild strawberry (Fragaria vesca)
will get to planting tomorrow, and a bunch of annuals
No.34222
Found some permaculture books that touch on aquaculture but I'm going to stop now because I don't even live in a place where this is viable.
I did get a start on my wildlife pond and hit the ground water less than a foot down! We just had a rain so Im assuming this is temporary. The immediate vicinity is heavily planted out with wildflowers and this is the same area-ish that I put the swale in that I was talking about last thread so I guess these things are keeping the ground wet despite being on the highest part of the property. Its cool but now I have till its dry to dig more
>>34221nice. I've got those strawberries too. Sadly after many years now I've still not eaten any.. I guess the animals get them first but that's pretty much what they're there for anyway so oh well
No.34223
>>34212>picthat
is cool. I wonder what the "watering radius" of one pot would be? Im think 2-4 per 4x8 foot raised bed
No.34224
>>34223Depends on a number of factors, soil drainage probably being most important.
No.34225
>>34212this gives me too much flashbacks to that 'magic ceramic pot heater' that was going around social media last year
No.34233
it started to rain so enough yard work for today. planted so far:
>beans
>peas
>beets
>spinach
>salad
No.34241
>>34233managed to also plant
>carrotsand water the field before I had to leave
No.34358
>>34248ya im thinkin based
No.34400
rotocultivator anon here. no babies sprouting up just yet, and we had snow today…
No.34404
>>34403I already do this. keeping animals is labour intensive. participating in the yearly moose hunt less so
No.34405
>>34403"Rewilding" is kind of a deceptive concept. However "wild" you make the land, that process is artificial. That's not to say we need to micromanage things, but there's kind of an idealistic notion that we should just leave things completely alone, and it comes from misconceptions about indigenous people being "wild" and just living "according to nature" rather than actively managing the environment. Failure to understand this is part of why you have such a bad wildfire problem in California. People used to go through and do controlled burns of the understory in those forests to keep from building up too much flammable material and make large scale wildfires impossible. This also helped a lot of native species reproduce - redwood trees for example are famous for needing fire to complete their reproductive cycle.
That said,
traditional methods of animal husbandry are often overly labor intensive and destructive to the land. Doing something like the plains indians did with the bison can be a deliberate choice over direct husbandry while also promoting the ecological functioning. But it's important to understand you aren't just passively reacting to the herds - they were affecting their behavior and spurring their migration patterns when you follow after them. We can apply similar principles and turn "wild" regions into landscapes that are managed at a macro level where we use "wild" but managed species to shape the environment. Bison in particular are suited to this, because migratory ruminants are actually very important for maintaining grassland like the plains, as they put a check on the growth of certain plants and help produce fertilizer that will reinvigorate the soil. Failure to maintain a fertilization cycle there was one factor that led to the dust bowl.
No.34406
>>34405this but also there is still a need to produce enough macronutrients for the metropolitan population
an example of "rewilding" is the way arboriculture is heading in Scandinavia, where clearcutting is being replaced by selective logging and seeking a mix of species. lines of birch can halt the spread of the spruce bark beetle for example
No.34411
>>34405It's not deceptive, you just don't understand it.
>>34406That's not rewilding.
No.34412
>>34411different forests are used for different purposes. if you think that all of it should retvrn to some pristine condition then you are mistaken
No.34413
>>34412Did you reply to the wrong post?
No.34469
urban reforestation
based or cringe?
No.34471
>>34470thanks anon ur right its based, i knew it was
imagine every sidewalk and road chiseled up with trees and edible plants growing in them
No.34473
>>34469>>34470enjoy your bugs
No.34478
>>34473a small price to pay for maybe not dying of air pollution
No.34480
>>34478catalytic converters do more to prevent air pollution than any amount of trees have
No.34481
>>34480And yet we can still go farther. Besides the mental health benefits of greenery are proven.
No.34482
>>34469Growing plants in urban areas is good for a lot of reasons from improved mental health to more efficient heating and cooling.
>>34473>enjoy your bugsI do, yes.
No.34484
>>34483Don't they take in a certain amount of particulates and other nasty stuff?
No.34485
>>34483I know. "air pollution" typically refers to particulates and NOx and SOx, not CO2
>>34482>I do, yesnot inside your house you won't
t. has to vacuum up hordes of dead flies every spring
No.34486
>>34484That's not prevention either. Prevention is stopping the pollution from happening in the first place.
>>34485>not inside your house you won'tScreen or solid doors and put the things bugs like
outside the house so they'll want to be there instead of inside.
No.34490
>>34484They do. There's plenty of empirical evidence that trees do improve air quality, I am not sure why this troll is fixating so hard on prevention only.
No.34497
>>34490Do they retain the pollution in their mass or do they give it to the soil?
No.34499
>>34473nuisance bug populations go up at first when you introduce new host plants and then go down when you have stable habitat for predators
No.34553
plants, intertwined, have you ever had a dream about a plant you once lost, plants, intersected, a planet connected, plants, have you ever had a dream of a world of plants, intersected, plants connected, living like we could in a world respected, plants, interconnected
No.34580
>>34109Cool ass idea
>>34485>not inside your house you won't>t. has to vacuum up hordes of dead flies every springGet screens on your windows and doors buddy. And throw out garbage before it piles up, don't leave mess out, tuck your food away properly etc
>>34553Can you please explain deleuze to me?
No.34585
>>34581mushroom is love
mushroom is life
No.34611
>>34580>Can you please explain deleuze to me?never read him dont care to
No.34612
>>34486>>34580>they think mere screens will keep these fuckers outbelieve me I've tried. every autumn they crawl in, somehow
No.34613
>>34612check for vents/cracks
No.34614
>>34613I suspect they live in the walls, meaning there's a bajillion ways for them to get in from there. in my living room I do know they get in from one of the corners, and applying an anti-fly pen there helps. in the remaining rooms it is less clear. I keep all doors closed when I'm not there (winter) yet they still get in
everywhere No.34651
watered my fields today, to the point that my water pump seems to have taken damage from it. I'd rather not have to replace it.. on the upside, peas have started peeking up
No.34654
>>34648thanks for ur post anon
No.34655
>>34469Looks like normal urban design to me, how is this reforestation? Would be more based if it was actual forests being built in cities, forests several kilometers wide crossing cities.
No.34664
>>34663the left side is the field I have already posted, and the right side has the hemp I've planted without bothering to make nice rows, to see what happens. I also "planted" some hemp by just throwing the seed on uncultivated grass
I might plant some fast growing taters too, but other than that my plan is to cultivate some more small fields for next year. I'm thinking of leaving strips of grass between the fields
No.34666
>>34665part of it is actually covered with grass clippings. I'm not really sure how I'm supposed to squeeze two seasons worth of growth in there. we still have plenty of snow in march and april. maybe that's another reason to keep strips of grass - just have the mower throw the cut grass into the fields
interestingly I mowed a thick patch of grass under which was a cover of dead tall grass. I have patches of this where I've burned heaps of worthless broadleaved trees and branches. maybe I should burn more of that in strategic places, say on the aforementioned grass strips
germinating certain seeds might be useful to get them going earlier without having to actually plant them indoors. sadly this doesn't work for hemp in my experiments so far, but mung beans might be worthwhile..
I also have oh another 4 hectares of fallow fields that I could "harvest", except the hectare that the local moose population uses for grazing
No.34668
>>34666call every local tree woodchipping company and ask them to dump woodchips on your property, just give them your address. otherwise go buy bulk woodchips. dont mix them into the soil, just leave them sitting there. plant trees. its more longterm approach
No.34669
>>34668anon I have 9 hectares of trees. I could get a chipper maybe, because there's oodles of what we call
sly, worthless young deciduous trees like salix and sorbus
No.34670
>>34664>I'm thinking of leaving strips of grass between the fieldsBad idea. The grass will wander into the fields. Strip away the entire grass+grassroots layer and cover with whatever, such as wood chips.
No.34673
>>34670May not need to strip it away, and it's better for the soil not to. If you just dump a layer of woodchips on top that can kill the grass while preserving the integrity of the soil. But you may see more success if you cover it first with something biodegradable like old newspaper. Ofc if it's a lot of space that's easier said than done.
No.34674
>>34670>The grass will wander into the fieldsthat's why I cultivate
>>34673>Ofc if it's a lot of space that's easier said than doneit's only 200 m² or so at the moment
No.34687
ancient permaculture
luxurious ruins
built by the people for the people
all it takes is a block of land
for a paradise to be created
even the bible told us
No.34688
bottable
permaculture
No.34790
ALWAYS
BE
PLANTING
No.34945
>>34942Neat. Always go for the native species option if you can because they will do better in the local conditions and not potentially threaten other native species.
No.35163
A few years ago I built 4 2'x4' raised beds out of the old fence we had replaced. Filled them with dirt. Never planted anything. Now it's just weeds I pick out every few months. They are located on the side of the house next to an 8 foot fence. So they get decent indirect sunlight and shade, unlike the rest of the yard that's basically the south texas sun death rays all the time.
What should I plant there? What do I need to do? Do I just grab a few bulbs of garlic and plant them now in july and wait? I feel like the cost of new soil, labor, storage, and water would outweigh the cost of just getting more garlic at the store?
No.35164
>>35163cost usually isn't the motivator here. you could aim for planting various cash crops like chilli and herbs
No.35168
alternatively, you could create shade in those sunnier spots by growing trees
No.35169
>>35163also focus on perennials for the biggest bang for you buck
No.35733
>>35671Beautiful thank u anon
No.35884
>>35752forestry mostly focuses on producing lumber. this might change as we move to more biofuels
No.35931
>>33653>>33654>>33655>>33656>>33657>>33658>>33659does any1 agree with my unhinged potsmoking rant from earlier in the year,…?
No.35932
>>35931I obviously don't agree entirely, however I did and do appreciate them.
No.35933
>>35932your a real one, tank sister :praying hands:
No.35949
Most of my yard is dead. I just bought a thatch rake. I’m gonna be so swole with so much hay for compost in my little garden beds. Call me Johnny apple sneed. Call me green buns. Call me, please. Just call me. I’ve raked so much.
No.35961
>>35949update: Oh fuck this is exhausting. There's so much fucking thatch. My hands are blistering at the metacarpals.
No.35962
>>35961I hope you're wearing gloves for that.
No.35963
>>35962I am but I was still getting blisters from the glove rubbing on the internal side of the metacarpal base of the thumb. Like I’m literally raking wrong or that my grip was wrong. I have it in the same spot on both hands so presumably my technique is just wrong.
No.35967
>>35949They call me Johnny Appleseed, they call me Green Thumb, they call me Big Rake, they call me Shed, they call me Peanut Seedbuckle
No.35969
>>35963You may just not be used to it. Even with ideal grip and technique you will still develop blisters if you aren't used to that kind of repetitive movement.
No.35973
>>35967I am the Thatcher. I thatch thatch.
>>35969I’m used to slowly growing callouses from guitar and lifting. This is just in such a weird spot I’m not used to.
No.35974
>>35973Different grips will put friction different places in your hand, so yeah.
No.36046
>>35974I’ve been trying to do thumbs along the shaft as a grip now, it makes shovel and pitchfork work just fine but I haven’t tried thatching again. Thanks for the tip, senpai.
Blog post time. Basically no one has cared for the yard since my grandad died a decade+ ago. Things have slowly died and been removed over the years.
Yesterday I took some rocks and mulch that were decorative and made cute little tree rings around the 2 trees that are left, making sure the mulch wasn’t too thick, the rest of it went in the front of house beds that still have some living stuff in it. With the back strip stuff removed I had room to move the 4 raised beds I made a few years back to along the back fence. Had to scoop out all the previous dirt and remove all the bricks I used to make walk ways. These beds were previously in the side of house garden bed so I tried to even out the soil and I covered it with fabric and boxes for whenever I get around to planting. Cool part is the dirt looks so much healthier than the rest of the dirt in the yard. With some of those leftover pavers I made a little platform along the driveway for the 3 garbage bins to stand on.
I really think I need to get a giant truck load of dirt for the whole yard, but before I do that I need to finish dethatching and get an aerator. hopefully the dirt plugs and dead grass can fill up the standing beds a bit.
I’d also like to xeriscape a bit of the front yard. Make a big island where the oak used to be and plant some big beautiful bushes that don’t need much attention. Maybe install rocks on the hell strip. This shit just gets so expensive. And my body is exhausted today from all those little projects yesterday. Part of the fun though is that I won’t need to go to the gym for a while, I guess.
No.36121
>>36046Went to chain store and found some sad plants on clearance so I got a Mexican heather and 2 little Japanese ferns. The Heather goes in the pond garden and the ferns went into little pots on the patio. New soil and mulch. It’s so fun to play in the dirt. Let’s see if I can keep them alive!
No.36228
>>36121There are four bushes in the front yard. The first is a beautiful stemmy thing that looks like it should be next to a Japanese pond. It’s doing fine. The other three are supposed to be some kind of box hedge thing. They are at least 40 years old and each one is dying in its own way. I spent some time today cutting off dead branches. The first I think is infected and getting too much sun. The second has ivy growing in it, stealing its resources. The third was humming and I was confused until I cut off a large dying branch only to have strange black wasps fly out of the dead tree. I quickly ran away. Later, I went to the back yard. A few years ago I let a weed grow into a tree, eventually cut it down. The stump is still in the garden bed. Today I pulled out an 6 foot long 4 inch wide root. Fun times. Tried to axe+hammer the stump a bit. Exhausting and didn’t do much damage.
I also tried out my manual aerator. It looks like a pogo stick that produces dog turds. It was fun to use.
No.36265
HOLY SHIT THE MEXICAN HEATHER IS SPROUTING LITTLE PINK FLOWERS. ITS SO FUCKIN CUTE. AAAAAAAH. ITS NOT DEAD!!!
No.36292
>>36265Today I went to a giant seed factory that works with the state government and universities to produce native seeds for farmers and such. I got a small pouch of native wild flower seeds I’m going to plant along the dead strip along the fence in the back yard. I will need to clear and til the whole area, maybe 4ft by 100ft. I’ll need to get enough dirt to cover it 1/4 inch or so. I’m excited to see if anything grows.
I also went to habitat for humanity and found some nice tools for dirt cheap. most all my grandfathers tools are rusted out and refurbishing them would be a whole project in itself. Anything I’ve bought in the past decade has also been pretty used, abused, and forgotten. So I got loppers, sheers, trowel, transplanter, cultivator, a rubber mallet, steel brush, watering can, sprinkler, nozzle, and a nozzle with a stake on it. All for less than 60 bucks total.
I am equipped.
No.36301
>>36292Bought some on sale, already opened soil from box store. Got a salvia plant and popped it next to the heather. It is very cute.
No.36331
>>36301I primed and painted the rusty ol wheelbarrow. It’s now a very cute orange and blue! I still need to replace the wheel.
I also kept working on that fucking stump. A few more roots clipped, but god damn is that hard work.
No.36333
>>36331Fuck this stump. I got a 2 inch blister that ripped off my skin from shoveling at the stump. God fucking damn it. I’m so close. It finally jiggles. Fuck stumps.
No.36335
>>36333Have you tried digging a wider hole and cutting from below?
No.36336
>>36335The stump itself grew into basically a spiked rock flowerbed that’s about 2 feet tall, I have been digging a wider and wider hole as I go but it’s been difficult to maneuver around. Today it finally started working when I hit it with a hammer or pushed it with my foot which leads me to believe there’s only a few more roots down there.
No.36337
>>36336What tools are you using? I find a good spade can be real helpful… that and really good rock music to work to.
No.36339
>>36337The injury was from a shovel from the 1970s. I was mostly using it because of the kinda pointed tip. The shorter newer spade(?) I have is flat so I thought it would be difficult to get into the hole. I also have a some mallets(?), some metal bars I was trying for leverage with, bigger saw that didn’t fit, one of those little Japanese style hand saws, two sizes of loppers, some tiny hand shovels.
Also I checked it just now after having it soak in a puddle all day, it now bends 45 degrees in one direction. I’ll have to look at it tomorrow in the sun or when I can use my hand again.
No.36340
>>36339SPLIT YOUR LUNGS WITH BLOOD AND THUNDER
WHEN YOU SEE THE WEED STUMP
WHIP YOUR BACKS AND CRACK YOUR HATCHETS MEN
IF YOU WISH TO PREVAIIIIIILLLL
I WAS SO CLOSE
No.36341
>>36340UPDATE: I FUCKING GOT IT OUT. YEET.
No.36346
>>36341I transplanted this weird spikey palm thing to where the stump was. I put the stump on a pike to warn other stumps and a lizard friend liked the view. I finished half the rock trim in the front, running out of easy rocks but I only have about 20 feet left, so it’s fine. Mulched more of the back garden. Things are slowly starting to come together!
No.36351
Do I blog that I got wasted instead of working on the yard? Well, I did. It rained yesterday so I don’t gotta water shit.
No.36352
What's a good ground cover for an orchard in a subtropical climate?
No.36355
>>36352depends on the trees, depends on the specific region, find a native local plant that has some symbiotic relationship with the trees of the orchard. not only that, use multiple plants. use bushes or something. dont do monoculture
No.36401
>>36400Are there any community gardens near you?
You can do a lot with house plants, my neighbor has one that he moves outside when it's warm and at first I assumed he was transplanting a tree. its huge. That oughta suck up some carbon also it looks nice
As for creating an ecosystem; do you have a balcony? I'd stuff it full of native plants for the birds and bees to enjoy. Maybe make a little rain garden. If not my next thought is to look into making terrariums but if you're only objective is to contribute to improving the environment however marginally than that might not satisfy you.
No.36411
>>36400Anon, depending on your skills, you can do A LOT
I suggest going down to Home Depot and buying about 20 small flower pots and lining them up against the bottom row of your window. fill them with INDOOR potting soil (not outdoor, and NOT "organic", you don't want bugs, get the most capitalist processed shit you can find like Miracle Grow. Just trust me
Then start planting seeds. Go to the seed store and buy like 20 little bags of seeds. Plant them randomly in your pots and see what starts growing. Start planting the seeds from your fruits and vegetables and seeing if they sprout. Start collecting seeds from your local environment and growing them. It will help you learn the life cycles of your local plants
Let me be real anon, that window space is basically equivalent to a plot of land of that size. Its just much more limited and you cant build interlinked root systems as easily unless you use long trough flower beds, which id suggest not doing when you start. using individual flower pots will help you understand the water requirements of individual plants better, and prevent pest and fungus spreading
You can also build shelving units upward, or create a hanging pot wire system, to have multiple layers of pots all the way up the window, as much as your heart desires
Do not let yourself think you can't grow a healthy thriving and productive garden in that space, because trust me you CAN do it.
Start with succulents and do NOT hesitate to go ahead and buy some plants which you can't practically grow from seed, nothing wrong with buying plants to learn this process. think of it like, you are growing the plants in your brain, moreso than growing them by your window. those plants by your window don't matter. you can start learning NOW
No.36413
>>36411Also, start small scale at first. Learning to deal with mold, fungus, and pest bugs is your first priority honestly. You'll also have to revise your cleaning habits significantly, and start regularly dusting and vacuuming. So start small at first or it will get overwhelming and you will more likely fail
No.36419
>>36355Mainly fingerlimes, some macadamia trees as well. Region is eastern Australia, but that's the extent I'll disclose. Have taken over a rundown 5-acre farmstead, so keen to figure out what to plant.
No.36433
>>36411Thanks comrade.
I've started with a few succulents because it's a warm environment and they're tough and low maintenance, and I've managed to keep them alive for a few months so I think I'm ready for some herbs.
>>36401Unfortunately no open area that a bird or bee would visit. There are a couple of community gardens I can try visiting now that you mention it, so I can go see what's up there.
No.36567
u ppl think asking random people in neighborhoods if you can garden on their lawn is viable?
No.36612
How did our resident gardeners do this summer?
I managed to get 25 pounds of cherry tomatoes, 15 pounds of potatoes (still harvesting these) and 20 or so heads of garlic (which I'll be replanting shortly) stored away on top of what i've already eaten. Unfortunately the weather around here was not ideal this year- bone dry spring followed up with a very wet June and a relatively cool August. I appreciated it personally but my plants didn't and it rendered the rain water harvesting setup I put together last year pretty useless. Everything else that was planted (peppers, beans, radishes) was a bust
Next year Im going to plant way more potatoes and I want to give artichokes a go, supposedly the latter grows like a weed around here and are very a good source of calories
No.36617
>>36612nice. I've got a small list of crops I plan to plant next year, though I'm unhappy because I know I've barely started.
No.36635
>>36612nice job anon. have u considered permaculture? are u growing trees? u can even just grow them in pots if u didnt choose a location yet
No.36636
>>36617Remember you can plant some stuff in the fall too. Garlic for example
>>36635>have u considered permacultureof course. Most of the yard is wild with the 2nd biggest share being my perennials and only a small part (where I actually get decent sun) is for annuals, and even there I do a lot thats inspired by permaculture. I could go on all day about that- no till mulched hugelculture inspired raised beds properly orientated to the sun with swales as paths, a rain water harvesting collection system, no artificial fertilizers, no herbicides/pesticides- yada yada yada
>are u growing treesthe property on all sides is practically shaded out by trees so Im just putting in understory trees and shade tolerant bushes and ground cover, but yes there are two trees that I cant bring myself to remove despite stealing what little sun I have left (Im sure they have other benefits anyway) and Im also planting native trees on the northern end of the property.
I would like to get some plants in pots though, some of the best sun I have is in places where I unfortunately can't have a garden, and I would love some more indoor plants as well. I have the token ones but nothing special. They really lighten a room especially in a cold climate like mine
No.37206
leaves are falling
fall is passing
winter is coming
warmth isn't lasting
what winter preparation plans do you anons have? how was your harvest?
No.37643
its time to start reflecting and planning. what will yall do different next year in your gardens?
No.37644
>>37643declare war on the squirrels who stole all my peanuts
No.37646
>>37644dont worry, they either buried them so they will become compost, or ate them and shit them out so they are compost, they played a part in the cycle of nature and you will be better off for it in the end
No.37669
>>37644total squirrel death
No.37672
>>37670speaking of beavers, they fell trees all over a friend's property, dangerously close to his buildings at times. but he's a landlord so critical support to our beaver comrades
No.37673
>>37643Adding Jerusalem Artichokes to the rotation. In spite of the name they are neither form Jerusalem nor are they an artichoke. Rather it's a sunflower(?) that produces a delicious tuber and it's native to north America so hopefully it'll be easy to grow. Not sure if I like the taste of either this or the artichokes it supposedly resembles in taste but we'll see.
otherwise wondering if I should drop garlic in favour of more tomatoes and potatoes. I love garlic but it's so cheap where I am I dont think it's worth growing.
No.37674
>>37673Garlic is one of the best companion plants. It is good at repelling pests, small enough to easily fit, and easy to propagate. It's particularly good to plant alongside tomatoes since it goes will with them in sauces, grows lower than tomatoes, repels common tomato pests, and can enhance the flavor of the tomatoes. Tomatoes will absorb some of the chemicals of the garlic if they're planted together.
Other plants that go well with tomatoes
https://www.thespruce.com/companion-plants-for-tomatoes-1403289 No.37675
>>37674true though I'm pretty sure this is the case with all alliums ya? In which case my walking onions will do the job of being a natural pest repellent. Still you raise a good point, maybe I'll just stick the garlic in with the tomatoes? Can't say I've done any companion planting. I mean i did it out of laziness this year as I planted flowers, then decided I wanted a tomato bed there but couldnt bring myself to pull the flowers out so I let them coexist and while it made it a pain to prune and harvest, neither plant really seemed to suffer for it
No.37676
in fact the flowers acted a trellis for the tomatoes!
No.37677
>>37675You could grow whatever combination of garlic and walking onions you want based on what you intend to produce and harvest.
No.37756
>>37673>Jerusalem Artichokes From my experience, they are really easy to grow. They are nice in a soup, maybe with a few potatoes and a bit of leek and then blend it all up with some cream. You can roast them in the oven as well.
But they spread very easily, and they'll keep coming back year after year unless you manage to dig up every last bit of the plant. Which can be a bit of a pain in the ass if you need the space for something else.
No.40530
Spring is upon us, the bees are buzzing, the birds are birding. What will you plant? What have you planted? Are you ready for the harvest?
Have you planned well enough to make it through next winter?
No.40545
>>39606Fascinating. I like the fact that they're not focusing on cash crops, either. I guess they could sell the excess millet and sorghum, but that's not the point.
No.40546
>>35884True, but the wonderful thing about coppicing (and pollarding, but it's more limited) is that you can get so much usable timber out of a coppice. Everything from faggots (I mean bundles of sticks) to fence posts, if you're willing to wait long enough and have the right species. People even used to make houses out of wood derived from Coppices.
It's entirely sustainable too, and creates habitats mimicing Old-Growth or Ancient woodland. You can also have a Coppice with Standards, which is where you leave some trees uncoppiced (standard) and harvest them as and when. You could have these be big hardwoods or fruit trees, if you want to get some agroforestry going.
No.40555
>>40545If they allowed cash crops to influence this it would quickly corrupt the project and miss the point entirely. The cash crops would outcompete the alternatives since the people planting those would be able to reinvest the cash back into the project and grow the amount they were planting. Over time they would come to dominate and the ethos would shift towards typical cash crop production, which is to say maximally exploiting the land and failing at regenerative agriculture. Although this kind of project has a major defense against that dynamic: it's by nature using the least desirable land. Anybody trying to make money on cash crops would rather invest in growing somewhere more ideal. It might become a problem as the project continues if it successfully holds or pushes back the desertification.
>>40546IDK how viable coppiced wood would be for construction in the present day, at least for housing. It certainly has a lot of uses however, and would serve as a very useful component of a permaculture project, since the coppiced wood could be used for things like fences, trellises, retaining walls, hugelkultur, etc while being biodegradable.
No.40558
>>40530>Spring is upon usstill about a meter of snow where I live
>What will you plant?taters, sugar snaps, carrots, salad at the very least. none of the multi-year plants I planted took root. will try to pre-plant some raspberry and whatnot. I will also continue my hemp experiments
a friend of mine is interested in helping out this season. I told him he can plant however much he wants, I'm at no risk of running out of land that can be farmed with the tools I have
No.40560
>>40555I'm going to arrange what is basically a coppice by cutting down about a hectare's worth of worthless leafy trees, but for the purpose of feeding the local game (deer, moose) once they start sprouting fresh branches at grazing height
No.40611
>>40560make sure you divide the hectare up and do it on a cycle, then, as the wildlife will likely get through the patch you cut quite quickly, and probably wont give it time to recover if they aren't given another food source.
No.40614
>>40611they already graze other parts of it quite heavily with no ill effect, other than there being basically a hectare of knee-high shrubs
No.40616
>>40611also funny thing: I originally considered that shrub area to be completely useless and offered to sell it to some friends. but now that I'm into hunting I realize it's actually useful and I want to grow the local roe deer and moose population
No.40624
>>40617I hadn't though of that, but I suppose you're right.
I volunteered with my local wildlife trust about 10 years ago to help coppice a patch of woodland near me. I've been back once or twice since then, but not recently. I might go there on Saturday to see if I can find the old patch. I'll take some pictures share them here
>>40614That's the problem! If you want to coppice it, you'll want to let it grow back up before cutting it again. At the moment the herbivores are essentially keeping it as a grove or field, so if you want any kind of taller vegetation you'll have to fence it off somehow.
Having said all that, I'm not sure what type of habitats Roe and Moose prefer to live in. Roe definitely hide in woodland during the day, and I see them feeding in fields too, but do they prefer high forest, or immature woodland with a low canopy, like you'd find in a coppice after a few years of growth?
No.40625
>>40624>so if you want any kind of taller vegetation you'll have to fence it off somehowanon the entire point is to feed said herbivores. me and the neighbor have dubbed it "the buffet". I want them to become regulars, because my hunting stand is right next to it
>Having said all that, I'm not sure what type of habitats Roe and Moose prefer to live in. Roe definitely hide in woodland during the day, and I see them feeding in fields too, but do they prefer high forest, or immature woodland with a low canopy, like you'd find in a coppice after a few years of growth?they prefer border areas and young forests with saplings that are easy to graze (to the chagrin of forest companies). old forests don't provide much besides bark, which only red deer tend to eat, and we don't have any red deer where I live
No.40638
>>40625Alright then, it sounds like you know what you're doing. When you've done it, be sure to let us know how well it works (if the website still exists then).
No.40639
>>40638>if the website still exists thenwdym? also yeah I'll try to keep the thread posted on my land use shenanigans
No.40640
>>40639Just that these things can take a while, and there's lots of talk about how about how we're hemorrhaging users. It'll probably be here for years to come, though.
I look forward to hearing about your endeavours!
No.41156
Got my first compost pile up to 50C. Feels good anons. Won't use this pile in my veggies, but hopefully will make 70C with the next pile
No.41631
>>41156naisu. I've finally had luck with compost for the first time and I think the difference was not using the black plastic container and instead just piling it up on the ground. I'm guessing the container in full sun got too hot and dried things out whereas the pile is in the shade most of the time. The container also made it pretty much impossible to flip/mix it up occasionally but that alone shouldn't have prevented it from breaking down but rather would just slow things down (hot vs cold compost). Still didn't make enough to replace imports but it's nice to get some use out of grass clippings and kitchen scraps.
Speaking of compost the county gave everyone a green bin for free and collects organics biweekly. On the one hand it's nice for those people that don't garden but it goes to show how valuable your biomass is and Ill be damned if Im going to give it away just to have the city sell it back to me. That bin will be collecting dust in the garage
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