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 No.5237[View All]

Comrades let's have a thread for martial arts, combat sports and self defense. Striking, grappling, all styles welcome (except fake ass shit). Let's talk about training, techniques, fights, fighters, etc. Here's a fun fact: One of the many achievements of the soviets was founding their own combat system, sambo, which proved to be extremely effective and is still widely practiced today. Also, Judo orange belt here (AMA if you want)
274 posts and 37 image replies omitted. Click reply to view.

 No.18897

>>18444
The International Judo Federation is killing judo too. These fools banned leg grabbing in 2010, and have severely restricted unorthodox grips like double lapel and bear hugging. They want judo to look "different" from wrestling or sambo, but they're just killing the sport + reducing its effectiveness against other styles. Jigoro would be rolling in his grave.

 No.18898

>>18897
What's their explanation for those restrictions? Do leg grabs result in more injuries or something?

 No.18905

File: 1628396169543.png (1.1 MB, 1024x689, ClipboardImage.png)

>>18897
>leg grabbing
>double lapel
>bearhug
<banned/restricted
That's the most retarded shit to restrict, it's a standard practise of Jiujitsu and sambo and Russian Judo, heck even Tae Kwon Do practices this in grappling what kind of ban-happy crap is this?

>>18898
The International Judo Federation made no official statement with regards to the thought process which went into the ban in 2010 and onward. By the way, in 2013 it became completely illegal to even touch your opponent's legs or trousers during a standing grapple. Like in the 80s Foot Sweeps and Head Dives were banned in sports competitions for obvious reasons (risky and injurous), but this is stupid.

The main theories are the following
1 - Muh russkies use leg grabs too much so it's abusing the rules
2 - The (International) Olympic Committee was going to ban Judo for being too much like wrestling
3 - leg grabs made it too easy to counterattack
The IJF was fearful that Judo was resembling Wrestling too much, by restricting leg attacks it meant that scoring points had to be more elegant and airborne making for a better spectator experience.

A good article on the topic is
https://craftofcombat.com/why-are-leg-grabs-banned-in-judo/

 No.18911

I'm gonna beat the shit out of all of you anons. You can't stop me

 No.19369

>>6494
Speaking of Tyson, anyone remember Mike Tyson Mysteries?

 No.19700

File: 1632116257454.mp4 (3.2 MB, 480x902, Wzzgf8r6ScSFjRyB.mp4)

>England: Adult man attacks 16 years old BJJ kid on the street, gets taken down.

 No.19702

>>19700
If it is JJ its the og japanese style

 No.19708

>>19700
The guy picking the fight is clearly drunk or high as fuck, he's not moving like a sober person does.

 No.19709

File: 1632177768752.png (272.25 KB, 654x527, ClipboardImage.png)

I miss doing judo

 No.19713

>>19708
Probably, the guy tried to bite his ear off

 No.19716

>>19709
Me too. I'm returning soon, been watching lots of videos and gripping the judogi to restore the calluses

 No.20259

Where is Sidelnikov and Soltlsyk now?

 No.20260

>>20259
>30 lbs difference
Impressive

 No.20456

This is the real life version of when you spam the low kick in Mortal Kombat

Also I feel that Muay Thai is kinda similar to kickboxing and the fighters at the time just didn't have the adaptability they should have had.

 No.20457

>>20456
Because of this fight, all SEA martial arts get bunched under the Muay Thai moniker

 No.20459

https://www.reddit.com/r/fightporn/comments/q85np6/street_fight_in_china_with_bottles_and_chairs/

*China gets mentioned on Reddit*

Redditors: deee social score systemmmm!!!!

 No.20460

>>20459
>r/fightporn
>posts fight video that happens to be from China
>post is flooded with anti-China shills
It's like I'm on 4shit, full of /pol/yps

 No.20461

>>20459
>>20460
Holy shit you two need to get a grip. It's national jokes not fucking /pol/.

 No.20462

>>20461
I doubt those people don't make that sort of joke out of an anti-China sentiment. It's a reflection of all the modern anti-communist propaganda about China, not merely "national jokes", that's why it's so annoying. 12 years ago, the jokes would've been different.

 No.20463

>>18445
You’re lucky I came back in here and saw your claptrap posted and you only responded because you were seething at how right I am. Let me disabuse and abuse you again then though I barely even remember wtf was said and not going to read it.

> comes down to who is more skilled, rather than what style is better


So that’s not saying much then, it always boils down to who is more well rounded. But “skilled” is a loaded word and involves style and other aspects of conditioning.

> This is a nigh-redundant claim

Not a redundant claim, some martial arts styles are better for the physical fitness and conditioning then they are for preparation in street fights/competitive fighting etc.

>They're almost the same thing you dipshit

Not surprised you’d say that. They are not even close.

>Like what? None of these "crucial mistakes" are any less likely in most Martial arts, unless those martial arts are focused on either fist-fighting or grappling with reduced leg-work.


Ok that’s partly true, you can do dumb shit in any martial arts, but that’s the whole point I was making with Muay Thai over tkd, tkd grappling and fistwork is weak.

>You make this sound like it's some massive problem, when you fix this with literally a couple days of practicing kicks and being corrected by a teacher, it's not that fucking hard unless you're either really fucking old or very inattentive.


That was just one problem of many I pointed out and no it can’t just be corrected with a teacher. Just look at any freaking olympic TKD match and you’ll see them fall down repeatedly on their ass doing overextended kicks because they can’t keep them under control and the opponent just dodges them. The higher and faster you kick the more momentum you’re pulling away from your center of gravity, you are literally being pulled by the weight of your legs which is 60% your bodyweight.

>Because that doesn't do jack shit against any opponent who isn't a total scrub, because they either don't hit hard enough or get dodged. I've lost count how many times people tried this shit with me and either I swept their feet, dodged and knocked them down or just took the hit and hit them with a haymaker.


Just fucking lol. I was talking about practical application a proper low kick to your knee joint will leave you crippled and they are fast and easy enough to happen in a flash. And you know what’s really easy to sweep? A dumbass tkd high kick

>No shit sherlock, that's why you train t do high and low kicks, and punches and elbows and knees and grappling, all of which TKD does. You're talking like TKD is only high-kicks. If you can't do high kicks train more and make do with other abilities, FFS, it's not that complex.


The original argument was about high kicks and its not about being able to do high kicks, its about their application. Like I said overemphasis on high kicks would lead to a higher chance on ending up on the ground and whatever grappling tkd has would not be enough to save you there.

>No it isn't, this is probably the most harmful statement. When you're doing a turning side kick, you're already spinning around when you look bac, because if you're "spotting" you're letting the opponent know "I'm spinning back" ahead of time. And yes it's a risk, because that's the point, a stronger technique comes with risks that rely on your skill and ability, which is the entire point of training.


If you don’t spot your just flailing your limbs and hoping they connect which can work, but its the luck of the draw. Also you cannot physically do a spin kick without turning your head so it will happen regardless sorry bud. Even if you spin first your opponent still would not know if its a punch a kick a fake or what.

>Fucking how LOL


Like every way, doesn’t protect vitals, high center of gravity etc.


>1) bouncing is done by numerous martial arts and it's usually done to keep the opponent guessing, it's not done always nor is it the default of TKD


Your opponent is not going to be guessing anything from a fucking bounce. Its just dumb and pointless. Yeah shuffling the feet is good, but bouncing is just dumb and throws you off balance far easier.

> 2) It only wastes energy if you're a dumbass who doesn't use the rebound to keep pushing

3) Fights, especially street fights, do not last long, so energy conservation is retarded unless you somehow convinced a street gang to have each member 1v1 you in a straight fight.

Derr muh rebound, doesn’t matter still waste of energy. Yeah and the point is if they dont last long then you shouldn’t be adding more risk factors like bouncing around, throwing high kicks, spins etc, to the mix.

 No.20465

>>20463
Goddamn it's too late for this reddit-spaced shit. I'll reply in a couple days, I've got things to do.

 No.20467

>>20463
>>20465
Fuck it I'll do it now
>you only responded because you were seething at how right I am
<more yapping
Imagine being this self-absorbed. I responded because you actually spread some outright harmful claims and fallacious arguments that any aspiring martial artist may take to heart and get roflstomped for their trouble.
>I'm not goin to read [wtf was said]
<proceeds to reply based on wtf was said
Ok lol
>that’s not saying much then, it always boils down to who is more well rounded
So you're not actually arguing my point, just being contrarian, you've "abused"/"disabused" nothing
>some martial arts styles are better for the physical fitness and conditioning
Sure like Capoera, but not in the case of TKD, TKD is more rounded than Karate and Karate has held up in its abilities fairly decently. I'm also not talking about the rigid formalized TKD that you se on big TVs, that's not even close to actual TKD fighting because you're specifically discouraged to use hands in such matches. The same applies to Muay Thai in Japanese KD1 - they limit the movesets by taking points or outright banning certain moves. WTF TKD takes points for boxing or leg grabs meaning that 2/3 of the moveset is removed and that isn't enough against a grappling and boxing based fighter of a similar level, the same can be said of Muay Thai, if you remove grabbing you completely remove their main counter to kicks. The modern TKD competitive trains only to fight in WTF TKD competitions not against other style fighters.
>They are not even close
I took Kick-boxing and Muay Thai and the basic move sets are almost the same, the differences being in the variations of their use and sometimes stance, as seen in any MMA fight that has kick-boxers and Muay Thai. Obviously official Kick-Boxing matches have more limitations, but real fights do not have them. The same can be said of official Judo see >>18905
That's also the reason >>20456 exists - the kickboxer involved, though skilled was too rigid and set in fighting by the rules and so couldn't counter as he could have (and as later kickboxers did) but I digress. Point is you're splitting hairs.
>no it can’t just be corrected with a teacher
<I fucked up because I'm inattentive so the martial art is bad, not me!
Fuck off.
>look at any freaking olympic TKD match and you’ll see them fall down repeatedly on their ass
>doing overextended kicks
<Using Olympics as an example
<using outliers of people doing high performance demonstrative kicks as examples
Doing a tornado kick is not the same as a fucking actual combat application, it's an intentionally demonstrative flashy kick meant for events like the Olympics that specifically limit techniques, not actual combat nor is it a part of actual regular TKD training for anyone NOT on performance teams. That is the reason I say you're off, you base this off performances based in very confined rule-based settings; street fights do not have rules nor do regular full-contact matches.
Example: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VL5Cy33RWLo&ab_channel=mmablogger
The fight has TKD at a loss because he only uses his legs and moreover does not use ANY basic techniques less complicated than a turning side kick. The reason being point scoring. The Muay Thai fighter's only limitation is to stand straight and not get down as they usually do, but that is a far lesser limitation.
>the opponent just dodges them
Again it's an individual basis, it's a higher risk attack but the pay-off is a kick that can T.K.O an opponent.
Examples using full-contact sparring that has less limitations than Olympic shit: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KeQXmS24uyA&ab_channel=EVOLVE-ForRootKnowledgeofMartialArts

>tkd grappling and fistwork is weak.

That's not true, Muay Thai specializes in those areas so obviously it'll be better there, but it's lacking in legs compared to TKD that is more rounded. TKD is not SPECIALIZED but basic grappling is at least on the level of or above classic wrestling. At 145 lbs I managed to beat and pin a wrestler that had double my mass in a wrestling match in High School just using my TKD grappling. TKD also has better fist-work than Karate and bases itself off of boxing in a lot of the techniques. Hell my teachers regularly had us do no-leg sparring focusing on boxing-type situations to acclimate us to this. A lot of formal competitions exclude this despite punches and blocks being a major part of the original TKD in the ROK Army.

>practical application a proper low kick to your knee joint will leave you crippled

<implying TKD doesn't have such kicks in spades
<implying that raising your leg (or kicking out) doesn't just let the kick go under you and let you crush their extended foot
You need to cool off bud.
>what’s really easy to sweep? A dumbass tkd high kick
>sweep a HIGH kick
You're not understanding, I mean literally snapping out and knocking aside a leg going in low and using the opponent's momentum to lay them out. You cannot feasibly do the same to a properly executed high-kick there's a reason you duck or catch higher kicks in ANY martial art that isn't pretending or being held back by Olympic rules.
>happen in a flash
Given any decently skilled fighter that can happen to just about ANY kicking type, you're arguing martial arts like they're an action character and not a MARTIAL ART that is learned and done by individuals of varying skill and ability.
>overemphasis on high kicks would lead to a higher chance on ending up on the ground and whatever grappling tkd has would not be enough to save you there.
My experiences say otherwise and it's not an overemphasis, you're exaggerating, again, based on competitives.
>If you don’t spot your just flailing your limbs
No, no you are not. The point of the technique is to do it so fast that you only tear your eyes away at the last moment. Use it right and you strike a massive hit
>its the luck of the draw
No, it's technique, apply it the situation and fight properly. Maybe think of it like a video-game, you don't just do super-moves randomly.
>you cannot physically do a spin kick without turning your head
<t.didn't read carefully
I literally stated YOU LOOK BACK AS YOU ENTER THE SPIN, it's not like you're looking into space before this. You look over your shoulder as you turn, not before, using the momentum to turn your head faster instead of spotting like an idiot. Spotting results in 1 thing, getting side-stepped by an attentive opponent. I've done that before against Black Belts a rank above me that thought they'd fool around against me.
>if you spin first your opponent still would not know if its a punch a kick a fake
Spinning backfist is also in the TKD repertoire, and no martial art spots before using it because that's retarded. A fake is rare because it's a big risk and requires sufficient skill. I've pulled it off before, faking and then doing a wheelkick and KOd an opponent, but this requires training and is situational, like any martial art.
>doesn’t protect vitals
That's 90% of martial arts, you keep your dukes up, and legs bent and your mid-section gets blocked or dodged. The Olympic and competitive TKD goes for a glass cannon approach and doesn't do hands up because point-counting.
>high center of gravity
and wider legs to compensate, not to mention that boxing and most non-grappling focused martial arts do this, individual skill still matters, see McGregor vs Mayweather - personal opinions about them as people aside, MacGregor's grappling kick-boxing style should have beaten boxing, but didn't.
>Your opponent is not going to be guessing anything from a fucking bounce
They are, they'll be risking that the next "bounce" is going to be a kick or a fakeout
>throws you off balance
The hell are you on about. If anything it lets you take a charge easier because you can move in the air and not get dragged. This is basics of Wrestling grappling, let alone any full martial art.
>shuffling
I suggest you observe Ali in his hey-day and the reason his shuffling didn't let him down, he had speed and practice, that's the key.
>durr muh energy
Unless you're doing Olympic fights or controlled sparring energy conservation is unnecessary in a real bout, dragging it out is uncertain as fuck. Yemelyanenko and numerous heavy MMA fighters rely on this but inevitably one of them ends up losing the stamina race.
>if they dont last long then you shouldn’t be adding more risk factors
They don't last long because it's usually a fast beat down after one good and sometimes risky hit takes the cake. Most streetfights just do punches but high kicks can be a game-changer, even a basic high front kick is major because you can keep people out of arms reach and lay out punishment.
>inb4 leg grab
There is a reason you retract legs after a kick, Every leg grab I have seen is because of bad kicking discipline - using a kick too close or not retracting the legs. Even then, if you're not a dumbass you can use that to your advantage.

So TL;DR: You have said nothing of note, just contrarianism or just "Noooo". So fuck off.

 No.20597

>Fedor Emelianenko, the man considered by some to be the greatest MMA heavyweight ever, will return to action after an absence of almost two years in Moscow on Saturday – and his American opponent feels it could be his last fight. The formidable 45-year-old headlines Bellator 269 at the VTB Arena, making his comeback on home soil in his first fight since his first-round win over Quinton ‘Rampage’ Jackson in Japan in December 2019.
https://www.rt.com/sport/538188-fedor-emelianenko-tim-johnson-bellator-moscow/

 No.20617

>>20597
Damn "The Emperor" is back and I missed it. I Gotta see this.

 No.20618

>>20597
lol, remember this shit?
my money is easily on Fedor

 No.20619

>>20618
Oh lmao, the fight already happened. And Fedor won the same way

 No.20620

>>20617
https://youtube.com/watch?v=zmPV-IkanIw&t=1h44m10s
praise be bellator for the free fights

 No.20621

>>20618
I remember this, the guy is a beast

>>20619
>Fedor [spoiler]
Yeah I expected nothing else TBH and thanks for the link Curt.

 No.20740

New Jack Slack just dropped

 No.21216

Alright, karate is pretty cool

 No.21338

Israel Adesanya is an utter Naruto-chad, the guy is chill as fuck. >>>/anime/510 Naruto thread

 No.21374

File: 1637431925761.png (30.51 KB, 300x162, doubt.png)

>>20467
>TKD is more rounded than Karate
>TKD also has better fist-work than Karate and bases itself off of boxing in a lot of the techniques
Anon perhaps your school is an exception because it focuses on self-defense over competition, and while it's true that taekwondo originally derives directly from karate, this isn't the typical trend with modern taekwondo. I've sparred with many taekwondo people and their competence with their hands ranges from adequate to nearly non-existent. In my experience it definitely isn't better fist work than karate.

 No.21388

>>21374
>TKD is more rounded than Karate
It is. Like I repeat, competitive TKD has nothing to do with actual combat applications - it specifically penalizes use of the hands to block or punch - leading to a lack of balanced combat.
>it focuses on self-defense over competition
Most TKD schools in the USA are led by Americans that learn it competitively and so teach the competitive style, but my teachers came from South Korea and had previously been military instructors that grew up and lived for the martial art, so I learned the original style made for actual military combat. Their schools are located in many countries including China.
Unfortunately in the past 10 years or so they've kinda gotten lenient, mostly because of Burger parents complaining about it being "too hard" and the need to upkeep the school as a business or go bankrupt.
>I've sparred with many taekwondo people and their competence with their hands ranges from adequate to nearly non-existent.
Again most anglo schools teach hand to hand like shit, that doesn't mean they've got no technique.
>karate
Trust me, Karate is extremely basic, TKD definitely exceeds it in that regard.

 No.21391

>>21388
>I learned the original style made for actual military combat.
I'm with >>21374 my experience with taekwondo is all flashy high kicks and no hands. Do you have any videos of this "military" taekwondo in action?

>Most TKD schools in the USA….

You can't get mad at people for thinking taekwondo is what you yourself admit most taekwondo schools teach.

 No.21392

>>21391
>Do you have any videos of this "military" taekwondo in action?
If you have a time machine to the 90s, I experienced this myself, I learned and observed and read books on the matter and faced people that kicked my ass until I got better. The ROK doesn't do sparring matches that are filmed in public often, and most of those are on the Korean net and I have no method of locating them anymore.
My point about military and ORIGINAL TKD vs modern sport shit is corroborated by those that studied the same original art.
https://www.quora.com/Is-taekwondo-effective-in-a-street-fight/answers/5841655
>taekwondo is what you yourself admit most taekwondo schools teach
<implying America is "Most TKD"
FFS, this is like saying American Judo schools are the same as Japanese ones. Taekwondo that you can find locally probably isn’t even Taekwondo, but rather a strange hybrid of whatever karate and kickboxing your master learned. Even better, some places call themselves Taekwondo dojos but they teach stuff like Judo and BJJ. Consider finding someone who actually learnt it, and be wary of McDojos.

 No.21401

>>21392
>the National Martial Art of Korea, based on thousands of years of influence
You really need to find a better source than Quora. Like many other popular martial arts, Taekwondo as it is practiced today is a product of the 20th century and isn't even 100 years old. It was developed as a derivative of karate after WWII.

 No.21402

>>21401
I'm not using it as a source, I'm demonstrating an example of an opinion by other TKD users. And yes it is very old, the MODEREN iteration of TKD is from post WW2 but if you read carefully, it is based on thousands of years of INFLUENCE, not that it is thousands of years old as a martial art.

 No.21419

File: 1637566857746.jpg (9.49 KB, 181x245, baller.jpg)

take the eskrima/kali/arnis pill

judo:
>used by police forces and the US military
>segregated women from competition
>absolute dog shit sanctioning bodies
>i suck at it despite training extensively for six years

eskrima:
>used by working class filipinos to fight spanish colonizers, making it fundamentally anti-imperialist
>applicable with many different weapons including knives, swords, sticks, and even open handed
>many different styles to choose from to suit your unique needs
>cheap training materials (most start with rattan sticks)
>no stupid belt system, your belt is your street cred
>can be combined with different fighting systems easily
>im good at it

 No.21424

>>21419
I've been attempting to adapt some unarmed escrima drills in my karate school actually. I'm a big fan of two-person looping drills like de cadena and it's shocking to me how few unarmed martial arts use them. This guy makes a great argument for them here:
https://www.wayofleastresistance.net/2011/10/dynamic-context-drills.html

 No.21537

File: 1637882413679-0.jpg (686.88 KB, 724x1024, SPD-1872.jpg)

File: 1637882413679-1.jpg (11.06 KB, 306x230, Nakamura-mangath_.jpg)

All hail Hideo Nakamura aka Kang Chang Soo, karate master from Pyongyang who founded the Kendokai dojo, trained DPRK agents through the Chongryon in Japan, got rid of throat cancer at 61 by burning it with a hot metal hook, kept practicing until his death at the age of 99 and was finally laid to rest in the Patriotic Martyr's Cemetery.
Nakamura was a friend of pro wrestler and fellow Korean Rikidozan and trained him, inspiring the "karate chop" move. Rikidozan called Nakamura "big brother".
Hatsuo Royama, a Kyokushin karateka and current head of one of the splinter groups of the original IKO, was taken under Nakamura's wing for a few year after he had been expelled by the IKO, but he was eventually readmitted and went on to win their Japanese championship and was runner up in the World Championship. Royama credited Nakamura for the development of his low kick technique.

 No.21579

>>21424
Dan Djurdjevic is a treasure trove of knowledge, especially his insight into form applications. I highly recommend his article on the use of blocks as deflections or interceptions.

https://www.wayofleastresistance.net/2011/07/hard-blocks.html

 No.21659

New jackslack in da house

 No.21734

>>21733
The only knife advice I ever heard was to not use a knife as self defense because it can be very easily turned against you. Unless however, you are trained and skilled with a knife.

 No.22000

File: 1640315603738-0.png (308.53 KB, 1280x698, Img-1640314065830.png)

File: 1640315603738-1.png (269.74 KB, 1280x710, Img-1640314038396.png)

>>18898
Like the other anon said, 1. The IJF wants Judo to not look like the japanese version of wrestling or just wrestling with a uniform. I don't know if the olympic committee threatening to ban judo is even true, and I do think both sports should have their differences, but it's ridiculous to ban elements that have been part of judo for so long without even an official explanation. Overly restricting things is harmful and deprives the sport of competitive movements and styles that have been used in judo for generations. Many people think a hidden reason they do it is because they're scared that wrestlers, sambists, non-judo grapplers, etc. start dominating judo. Countries with strong wrestling traditions like Russia, Georgia, Uzbekistan, Mongolia (and most former soviet republics) have serious judo contenders but they are known for using unorthodox grips, styles and movements that don't "fit" into Judo (plus lots of leg grabs). So it seems as if the IJF is cancelling things that could threaten Japanese hegemony of judo.

2. They want judo to be more offensive to make it more popular and more entertaining to spectators. Problem is Judo is not a spectator sport. It's boring to most people, the average joe doesn't know grip fighting or cares for it. People want to see throws not 3 minutes of gripping and clinching, so the IJF is trying to simplify judo as much as possible. However, Grip fighting is an essential part of judo and not really something you can cut down through new rules and penalties.

Pics are the current IJF rules. Any unorthodox grip is allowed only if immediately followed by an attack (up to 5 seconds iirc). Otherwise you get penalized.

 No.22110

Guyss I have a question.

So I was training to be a stuntman for like 10 years now. I built up all my MA/athletic skills to a decent level. But I dont want to work as a stuntman wagecuck. It all seems like wasted effort and pointless now.

So what was the purpose of it all. How do I put my skills to use (bonus points for some commie purpose). Do I just make reels on youtube showcasing skills? It seems so dumb. Maybe indie MA type movies with a commie message?

 No.22111

Take the palm strike pill and save your metacarpals.

 No.22112


 No.22113

>>19700
>Slams him
>Lets him go
>immediately tries to start shit again
That's why he should've choked him out as well.

 No.22165

>>22110
Wait, why did you train for 10 years if you didn't want to be a stuntman?

 No.22265

>>22165
I got passion for it too. But I only wanted to be a stuntman becuz thats like the only avenue for the skills i can think of. Im content just dying like a shaolin monk or whatever, but Id like to apply the skills somehow for some good purpose like communism or something


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