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 No.5237[View All]

Comrades let's have a thread for martial arts, combat sports and self defense. Striking, grappling, all styles welcome (except fake ass shit). Let's talk about training, techniques, fights, fighters, etc. Here's a fun fact: One of the many achievements of the soviets was founding their own combat system, sambo, which proved to be extremely effective and is still widely practiced today. Also, Judo orange belt here (AMA if you want)
229 posts and 24 image replies omitted. Click reply to view.

 No.15246

>>15244
Really note seeing the "square" aspect of it, we simply call that a relaxed fighting stance or "L" stance when most of the weight is on the back leg in my karate school. We usually discourage propping up the front leg like Muay Thai fighters because it gives away too much information about where your balance is.

 No.15250

>>15246
I'm an armchair striker so I can't really speak for the exact advantages or reasons for a particular stance over another, but I can offer you this link.
>inb4 r*ddit
https://www.reddit.com/r/MuayThai/comments/9xungi/bladed_kickboxing_vs_square_muay_thai_stance/

 No.15252

File: 1619332346443.png (18.07 KB, 419x507, front-stance.png)

>>15250
Oh I understand now, by "square" you're referring to the position of the upper body as perpendicular to the direction of your target. In karate parlance a basic front stance would be a very "square" stance. That's pretty strange to me, the Muay Thai fighting stance has always seemed fairly "bladed" to me I guess. Maybe I need to fix my eyes.

 No.15302

What's with Youtubers/celebrity boxing fights lately? I think they're ruining the sport.

 No.15303

File: 1619499058618.webm (1.22 MB, 720x720, 1619324415795.webm)

>>15302
The sports been dead for a long time buddy

 No.15335

KYA

 No.16191

>>15303
My god, it's actually happening. What a fucking joke boxing has turned into.

 No.16197

I understand why weight matters in a fight and skill might triumph everything

But how does height factor in as an advantage to fights? I'm curious
Is it better if you are taller or shorter than your opponent? And why?

 No.16198

>>15238
OH VMY FUCKING GO WHWAHT THE FUCK MAN

HOW THE FUCK DOES THAT HAPPEN, IS IT PERMANENT DAMAGE?

 No.16200

>>16197
Depends on the kind of fight. Height can be an advantage in terms of reach with punches and kicks, but it can be a disadvantage with grappling because it's easier for a shorter opponent to get under the taller person's center of mass and throw them.

 No.16201

>>16198
>kicking
>ever
JUST.

If I wanted to be an MMA champion, I would just spend 95% of my training in a good boxing gym, one that has boxing champs, former champs and highly touted prospects as available sparring partners. The other 5% I would spend it on wrestling gym, specifically takedown defense. And I would never, EVER throw kicks.

 No.16202

>>16198
It happens when you try to strike things with long bones like a dumbass who has internalized too much Muay Thai movie logic. Ever try to hit something with the middle of your forearms instead of your hands? No, you know instinctively that you'll probably hurt yourself. Same logic applies to trying to kick things with your shins.

 No.16203

>>16197
It really depends on the fighters.
For instance, if a short fighter is fighting a tall fighter in the same weight class, the shorter fighter's center of mass is lower.
This makes it easier for the shorter fighter to go for take downs. It also means he can shift around (and under punches) faster, making it harder to keep him in your vision.

However, the taller fighter has an advantage in striking. With gravity on his side, his punches hurt a lot more. Plus, he doesn't need to kick as high.

 No.16204

>>16202
this
It's best to think of your arms and legs as meaty whips. The tip is the most dangerous part :^)
>vidrel

 No.16206

>>16201
If you're a brilliant boxer they will just take it to the ground, inevitably. No smart fighter is going to trade punches with someone they could quickly submit on the ground.

 No.16212

File: 1622753932032.png (245.63 KB, 634x640, tenor.png)

>>16202
>Ever try to hit something with the middle of your forearms instead of your hands?
D-does trying to defend incoming attacks with middle of the forearm count as hitting
I watched too much batman and forget that I don't have forearm claws.

 No.16219

>>16212
It's a little different with defending. Obviously a broken arm is a better outcome than something lethal. But understand that all "blocks" in martial arts are never intended to be blocks despite the confusing English parlance, they are really parries or deflections. An overhead block for instance should always be done at an angle to guide and dissipate an incoming blow down your arm and away. Taking the full force of something on a concentrated point no matter what part of your body is going to give you a bad time.

 No.16221

>>16202
Only someone completely ignorant of muay thai, but even moreso of human leg anatomy, could write something like this.

 No.16222

>>16221
Interesting, got an argument?

 No.16223

>>16206
hence why I said I'd train takedown defense also (Greco Roman)

 No.16234

>>16202
>>16222
1. The shin bone is big and thus relatively less likely to break.
2. The hand is fragile as fuck when you don't wrap and cushion it up.
3. If you had any idea about kickboxing or MMA you'd know that a roundhouse kick (with the shin) is among the most powerful and successful kicks in combat sports and that a fucking full-force foot-kick to a knee or a forehead without savate shoes ( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Savate ) would be exponentially more likely to break a multitude of bones within the foot, rather than the sole thick-as-fuck shin bone (aka tibia, picrel).
>>16204
sadly primate evolution didn't adapt horns on our hands and feet :(

 No.16235

File: 1622836978278-1.png (546 KB, 1109x600, The_toe_kick.png)

man this guy's an idiot, why would he kick with the base of his shin, where it meets his foot?
we all know the correct way to kick is with the point of your big toe

 No.16236

>>16234
Ah, so you're smartass who knows nothing about actual human physiology, physics, or mechanics parroting cultish trivia like they know shit.

1. Long bones are designed for tensile strength and longitudinal compressive strength, not transverse stress. When you hit with the middle of your tibia at its thinnest and weakest section you are putting stress on it from both sides through the momentum above it behind your foreleg and the momentum associated with your ankle and foot.
2. I don't have a clue why you're bringing hands up in your argument but obviously self-defense oriented martial arts emphasize avoiding bone-on-bone strikes for good reason.
3. If you had any idea about basic physics and mechanics you'd realize that striking with your foot presents mechanical leverage advantage over hitting with your shin and is always going to have the potential for more power. Stupid thing to bring up that suggests you're obsessed with macho power fantasies and haven't really thought through your position. As far as breaking bones in feet are concerned, this is the reasoning behind many styles' adoption of striking with the balls of feet for round kicks rather than the instep because it retains the whip-like power generation while allowing all the other bones in the foot to absorb force in line with the impact.
4. There are in fact theories that the human knuckles and fists did evolve from selection for hitting other humans. Our fists are very club-like compared to other primates and it isn't a necessary shape for finger dexterity.

>>16235
Nice straw man to cope with the insecurity behind your own crappy arguments.

 No.16237

>>16236
weird hill to die on

what kind of bullshido do you practice?

 No.16238

>>16237
Got any better arguments?

>video footage of people snapping their legs on four separate occasions in MMA from shin kicking

>akshually guys, don't believe your lying eyes, if you think shin kicking is dangerous you just don't know enough about MMA
What's the matter MMA cultist, I thought your sport was supposed to be a bastion of empiricism?

 No.16239

>>16238
Here's a quick history-lesson, ignoramus:
https://youtube.com/watch?v=EgYlQg0SFGM
of a thai guy breaking the legs and foot of the western kickboxing (amalgamation of karate and TKD) champion of the time.

Also multiple people are replying to you.

Can someone give this guy a napkin?

 No.16241

>>16238
Get out of your armchair and kick a heavy bag, please

 No.16248

>>16239
>>16241
Still waiting on arguments. Vague appeals to authority (which you don't have) aren't going to cut it.

 No.16256

>>16219
Hmm
So there deflection is different from defending

Redirecting the force

 No.16258

>>16248
>t.
Several strong counter-arguments against your bullshido appeal to mysticism (did you expect the human body to be infallible? Have you sparred a day in your life?) have been levied and you know it. Stop acting up, it's very cringe.

 No.16259

File: 1622897110008.gif (721.36 KB, 364x200, petulant-child.gif)

>>16258
<Missing file

 No.16261

>>16258
What has been presented are little more than anecdotes as if they prove something general (what they prove hasn't been stated), some sort of vague assertion about people just not doing it right (at least I think that's what you're trying to do by posting these videos, the point you're attempting to make with them isn't very clear), and lazy attempts to smear the credibility of your opponent (fun fact: I have multiple degrees in zoology and it's almost guaranteed I know more about physiology than you) or straw men (I haven't even said a thing about what martial arts I practice). You have completely failed to address the original point which is whether hitting things with the shin is a good idea at all. Start over and this time form an argument.

 No.16268

File: 1622960938093.jpg (Spoiler Image, 209.28 KB, 740x870, Point Blur_Jun062021_07103….jpg)

>>16236
(Not the anon you're replying to.)
Your arguments do sound logical. Long bones don't sound ideal for blocking kicks, and sure some have got broken that way.
But at the same time, I remember myself blocking the kick of a savateuse that way in a savate class. by accident, shin blocks are illegal in savate. I'd been cross training in Muay Thai. It did work. Unfortunately she got hurt by the block. I wasn't meaning to do it, the cross training just came out.
(Another unrelated observation. First day beginners often do well in savate sparring! They tend to do unchambered kicks like football kicks which can be fast. They're like the old "defense dans la rue" system designed for street self defence.)
I guess a lot is going to depend of the angle of your blocking shin (if it's angled, knee forward maybe that's what dissipates the force of the incoming strike along the long bones of the blockers shin?), relative bone density, etc?syndicalismSyndicalism

 No.16269

File: 1622962070028.jpg (Spoiler Image, 301.38 KB, 740x1373, Point Blur_Jun062021_07365….jpg)

>>16236
Apologies. I just realised you're discussing shin strikes, not shin blocks.
For self defence, I'm with you savateurs/savateuses on this. For self defence, great if you wear steel toecap footwear for work and remember to keep kicks lowish (ribs /solar plexus at highest, unless an expert) or set them up with something else.syndicalismSyndicalism

 No.16270

ngl bros
i thought shin was just another name for the groins

 No.16271

File: 1622969727155.jpg (Spoiler Image, 222.72 KB, 740x834, Point Blur_Jun062021_09483….jpg)

>>16270
Haha no, anon.
The pubic bones are an entirely different set of bones. (Further up in the body from the shin bones.)

/hobby/! come for the recreation chat, stay for the anatomy and physiology notessyndicalismSyndicalism

 No.16275

>>16271
who needs school when internet strangers exist!??!?

 No.18417

File: 1627248700443.jpg (26.16 KB, 300x378, karate chimp.jpg)

So apparently this is going to be the first time they have ever hosted karate at the Olympics. As a karate enthusiast, I think it's incredibly stupid that they're having kata "competitions", that's something that literally nobody but karate insiders would appreciate (and even I don't care for that stuff). I guarantee their scoring system is going to promote acrobatic leaps over fundamentals and degenerate into something that looks similar to floor gymnastics. I also think it's pretty silly to have both competitive taekwondo and competitive karate at the Olympics, they degenerate to similar combat systems in competitive sparring due to the pressure of rules and point systems. Maybe we'll see some exciting rolling heel kicks from kyokushin people though.

 No.18419

>>18417
Oh dear god it's worse than I thought:
>In addition, the Karate kumite at the 2020 Olympics will be non-contact. “Competitors send tsuki, or punches, and keri, or kicks, with explosive force at the prescribed regions of their opponent’s body. However, a tsuki or keri never actually hits the opponent because competitors perform every tsuki and keri with absolute control, enabling them to stop the motion suddenly only millimetres before coming into contact with their opponent”.
The Japanese government seems determined to embarrass one of their most iconic athletic pastimes. People are going to have a field day ridiculing this.

 No.18443

>>18419
The funniest part about this is that unless you fucking put on a gas mask and full body suit sweat and other water vapor is still going to go all over the competitors and nearby areas. Honestly I hope someone hides a speaker and plays sneezes and coughs at times just to make these morons twitch.

 No.18444

>>18419
Sounds like a load of horseshit to me. Judo is full contact this year (is there any other kind?), so I'm guessing there's a big presence of kata schools in Japan invested in promoting their ""style"" of tap dancing

 No.18445

>>12505
This post is so old but man does it annoy me that I missed it, mostly because the stupidity of it is downright harmful
>you were trying to argue that they were and now in your response you’re implying front kicks
Not what was being said at all.
>struggle with kickboxers
No, I said they were tough opponents because it's a similar fighting style, so it comes down to who is more skilled, rather than what style is better
>it’s better for conditioning than training
This is a nigh-redundant claim
>Muay Thai technique is better
They're almost the same thing you dipshit
>tkd just makes certain crucial mistakes more likely to happen
Like what? None of these "crucial mistakes" are any less likely in most Martial arts, unless those martial arts are focused on either fist-fighting or grappling with reduced leg-work.
>Why train against overextension
You make this sound like it's some massive problem, when you fix this with literally a couple days of practicing kicks and being corrected by a teacher, it's not that fucking hard unless you're either really fucking old or very inattentive.
>just do some low kicks
Because that doesn't do jack shit against any opponent who isn't a total scrub, because they either don't hit hard enough or get dodged. I've lost count how many times people tried this shit with me and either I swept their feet, dodged and knocked them down or just took the hit and hit them with a haymaker.
>I still wouldn’t risk it in a street fight
No shit sherlock, that's why you train t do high and low kicks, and punches and elbows and knees and grappling, all of which TKD does. You're talking like TKD is only high-kicks. If you can't do high kicks train more and make do with other abilities, FFS, it's not that complex.
>that’s bad technique
No it isn't, this is probably the most harmful statement. When you're doing a turning side kick, you're already spinning around when you look bac, because if you're "spotting" you're letting the opponent know "I'm spinning back" ahead of time. And yes it's a risk, because that's the point, a stronger technique comes with risks that rely on your skill and ability, which is the entire point of training.
>the tkd stance is poor
Fucking how LOL
>bouncing
1) bouncing is done by numerous martial arts and it's usually done to keep the opponent guessing, it's not done always nor is it the default of TKD
2) It only wastes energy if you're a dumbass who doesn't use the rebound to keep pushing
3) Fights, especially street fights, do not last long, so energy conservation is retarded unless you somehow convinced a street gang to have each member 1v1 you in a straight fight.

 No.18446

>>12506
>ou tighten them so hard they become painful and cut off your circulation
1) You're not supposed to use ankle weights that are too heavy
2) Use good quality weights that stay on snugly but comfortably, not all of them are the same
3) Pain is a part of martial arts and working through minor pains is also necessary.

 No.18448

>>18446
>2) Use good quality weights that stay on snugly but comfortably, not all of them are the same
I'd be delighted if you could direct me to some of these. Maybe my weights are just shit for kicking.

>just cut off your circulation bro no pain no gain

This is cringe though. Blood vessels in your ankles aren't analogous to knuckle conditioning.

 No.18449

>>18448
Oh I'm not talking about Circulation pain, that shit is definitely a no-no in any type of weight training, what I mean is the pain you might get from the weights themselves.
>direct to good weights
Personally I use 1-3kg All Pro ankle weights with Contour Foam. put them on over some socks (or your pants) and any pains or problems like tight grips is minimized. I do not recommend exceeding 5-7 pound ankle weights for anything except walking and slow-lift kicks (basically training how long your can keep your leg up in a kick rather than how fast and hard you can kick).
Also as an alternative go to the Ocean or a pool or lake and wade out to your chest height and just do line drills for kicks as fast and hard as you can, it's more subtle but does increase your speed and strength for kicks.

 No.18897

>>18444
The International Judo Federation is killing judo too. These fools banned leg grabbing in 2010, and have severely restricted unorthodox grips like double lapel and bear hugging. They want judo to look "different" from wrestling or sambo, but they're just killing the sport + reducing its effectiveness against other styles. Jigoro would be rolling in his grave.

 No.18898

>>18897
What's their explanation for those restrictions? Do leg grabs result in more injuries or something?

 No.18905

File: 1628396169543.png (1.1 MB, 1024x689, ClipboardImage.png)

>>18897
>leg grabbing
>double lapel
>bearhug
<banned/restricted
That's the most retarded shit to restrict, it's a standard practise of Jiujitsu and sambo and Russian Judo, heck even Tae Kwon Do practices this in grappling what kind of ban-happy crap is this?

>>18898
The International Judo Federation made no official statement with regards to the thought process which went into the ban in 2010 and onward. By the way, in 2013 it became completely illegal to even touch your opponent's legs or trousers during a standing grapple. Like in the 80s Foot Sweeps and Head Dives were banned in sports competitions for obvious reasons (risky and injurous), but this is stupid.

The main theories are the following
1 - Muh russkies use leg grabs too much so it's abusing the rules
2 - The (International) Olympic Committee was going to ban Judo for being too much like wrestling
3 - leg grabs made it too easy to counterattack
The IJF was fearful that Judo was resembling Wrestling too much, by restricting leg attacks it meant that scoring points had to be more elegant and airborne making for a better spectator experience.

A good article on the topic is
https://craftofcombat.com/why-are-leg-grabs-banned-in-judo/

 No.18911

I'm gonna beat the shit out of all of you anons. You can't stop me

 No.19369

>>6494
Speaking of Tyson, anyone remember Mike Tyson Mysteries?


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