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File: 1608525915221.jpg (477.36 KB, 867x1120, Jigoro_Kano_and_Kyuzo_Mifu….jpg)

 No.5237[View All]

Comrades let's have a thread for martial arts, combat sports and self defense. Striking, grappling, all styles welcome (except fake ass shit). Let's talk about training, techniques, fights, fighters, etc. Here's a fun fact: One of the many achievements of the soviets was founding their own combat system, sambo, which proved to be extremely effective and is still widely practiced today. Also, Judo orange belt here (AMA if you want)
131 posts and 9 image replies omitted. Click reply to view.
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 No.12325

>>12324
To add, in more than half of your videos, i can bet my balls it's not even a boxer, judging by movement and striking techniques. Just because someone punched somebody else with a hand doesn't make him a boxer, even if the video on youtube says so.
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 No.12336

>>12167
No hook kick is among the swinging kicks that requires a lot of proficiency to use well. A wheel kick would be easier to be honest. The best use of a hook kick IRL is to strike the back of the leg of an opponent before coming in with an upper-body blow.
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 No.12341

>>12325
>To add, in more than half of your videos, i can bet my balls it's not even a boxer, judging by movement and striking techniques.
Look at just that first video of the guy knocking out multiple attackers. Notice his quick sideways and downward head movement when he evades the initial strikes from the first guy who attacks him, how he holds his hands up, his footwork, his timing, his distance management, the way he uses the jab to set up counters on the attackers charging in, the combos. That's not something you're born knowing how to do. That's something you have to learn by practicing the proper techniques with a coach and actually applying those techniques through sparring in a gym to gain experience.
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 No.12367

>>12166
>I assume this is a general statement for kicks like Wheel kick and Turning side. I have to say that this is is blatantly untrue. A wheel kick is devastating, I've seen it and done it. The same goes for Turning side kick or 360 roundhouse. Whether an individual is good enough to use this in practical fights is a different matter that depends on the physical limitations or circumstances of that individual. A former sparring partner of mine could do a mean turning side kick, but a workplace accident led to him being unable to do it properly anymore.

Of course the physical limitations matter, that’s why when I said it isn’t practical I was thinking more about an average taekwondo student or practitioner. A master of any martial arts would be better off in a street fight against a normie so that’s not really a point. And sparring is not the same as a real fight, in a real street fight you don’t have the luxury of miscalculating or wasting a move. I would not attempt a spin kick in a real street fight. Even the act of turning your head to spot the target is time that you are not looking at your opponent (however brief you may consider it to be).

>That's a load of bullshit. This only applies to swinging/spinning kicks and is countered by the fact that you use your body as part of the momentum and as a counter-balance; either bend back or bend forward with the kick.


Again I was speaking in terms of the average practitioner. Most people do not have the flexibility for high kicks and throwing a high kick would be putting them off balance.

Even then I wouldn’t throw high kicks either because they’re traveling a longer distance and are easier to catch. Just look at all the taekwondo matchups with a muay thai expert, tkd always gets BTFO’d because thais are very good at catching.

Also in a street fight with adrenaline pumping you’re more likely to overextend the kick and throw yourself off balance.

These are pointless risks that are not worth taking. Street fights happen fast and I would not be doing any flashy tornado kicks to their face. Also spin kicks are not that accurate and hard to land on a moving target.

Sounds like you need to spar with people outside your tkd circlejerk.
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 No.12449

>>12367
All your arguments are just basically
>hey you're just (somehow) super special because you're good at training
1) No-one says TKD would be picked up in a year, however I can definitely say that my flexibility, strength and balance improved within the first year I STARTED.
2) I wouldn't call myself a Master of TKD
3) Adrenalin overextensions, 'timewasteing' and other issues are literally nitpicking. This is what training is supposed to be for, to practice and improve abilities until they are applicable IRL. That's literally every martial art ever.
>spar with people outside tkd
I do. Probably the toughest opponents are kick-boxers who use grappling, for anyone inexperienced they're a pain… but that applies to literally anyone trained or not.

Also on the topic of looking behind and wasting time. You do that with the momentum of the kick. Even dismissing that, front-kick hopping front kick are no joke and definitely pack a punch.
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 No.12450

I played mortal kombat ever since i was in elementary school am i a qualified martial artist?
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 No.12477

>>12165
>However, it’s excellent to practice as it makes your legs very agile.
Karate guy here, I'd say I have exceptionally graceful, precise, and powerful kicks among my peers, but I don't actually use kicks too often while sparring because I've always felt like my legs are just a little too slow or obvious. What particular aspects of your training would you characterize as making your legs agile?
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 No.12501

>>12477
> What particular aspects of your training would you characterize as making your legs agile?
TKD dude here. The best training for leg speed is weights and kicking high as possible as hard and fast as possible every day. It makes your mid-body kicks and swings much faster. Also focus on technique. The small details like bending the knee before a sidekick, for example, become key as you progress, as it is a pre-requisite for maintaining your kick's power as you increase speed.

Also practise double kicks forcing your leg to move low then high at full power forces the muscles to adapt.
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 No.12505

>>12449
The original anon asked about spin kicks being useful and you were trying to argue that they were and now in your response you’re implying front kicks are effective and you struggle with kickboxers.

That was the whole point, it’s better for conditioning than training. Front kicks are not unique to Tkd and Muay Thai technique is better.

> 1) No-one says TKD would be picked up in a year, however I can definitely say that my flexibility, strength and balance improved within the first year I STARTED.


See above

>This is what training is supposed to be for, to practice and improve abilities until they are applicable IRL.


There’s an element you can’t train in a street fight, tkd just makes certain crucial mistakes more likely to happen. Why train against overextension when you can just do some low kicks or something else in the first place.

I can throw high kicks very easily and very fast to the face, I still wouldn’t risk it in a street fight unless I saw the opponent was weak/slow.

> Also on the topic of looking behind and wasting time. You do that with the momentum of the kick.


No that’s bad technique you spot first. I can still spot fast and kick high and fast but I would not chance it. Also the tkd stance is poor and bouncing wastes energy.
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 No.12506

>>12501
I've tried to use ankle weights during martial arts routines before and it doesn't turn out like you'd think it might. They either shuffle around too much to be useful or you tighten them so hard they become painful and cut off your circulation.
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 No.12509

>>12506
>avoid pain
>martial arts

Srsly though if those don’t work there are other things you can do like focus mitt drills, or you can try ankle straps with resistance bands. Though resistance bands are kind of annoying. Target practice, speed practice switching around targets really fast develops reflexes.

Also if you’re like me and want to be a weirdo, try doing more household tasks with your legs and feet only like those cripplefags.
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 No.12578

>>12341
And your point is? Nothing you said contradicts what i said.
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 No.12583

>>12506
>it doesn't turn out like you'd think it might
This sounds like a you problem
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 No.13707

Any strikers have any good shadow drills? It's so hard to maintain your skills with dojos closed and nobody to work with.
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 No.14238

I officially haven't trained for a year, bros…
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 No.14254

>>14238
What's stopping you? Are you a wrestler? The great thing about striking arts is you can keep yourself fit in small spaces.
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 No.14255

>>5237
I have been swinging punches daily
Is that something? Am I do martial arts?
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 No.14256

>>14255
Until you wrap your fist and punch a bag, it is not martial arts tbh
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 No.14261

>>14256
And what makes wrapping a fist and punching a bag a martial art?
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 No.14262

>>14261
It makes your wrist more stable, allowing you see how to really punch without it
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 No.14272

>>14256
I don't have any punching bags anon :(
no money
what do i do
i have been thinking about doing weight training by grabbing heavy things and practicing punching in the air

at least that way my punches will be faster and swifter
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 No.14276

File: 1613669973857.gif (5.26 KB, 202x381, makiwara.gif)

>>14262
You can accomplish the same thing with knuckle push-ups. I have never in my life used wraps but I know exactly how to align my wrist when punching.
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 No.14320

File: 1613926700533-0.webm (2.87 MB, 1280x720, 1613880709718.webm)

File: 1613926700533-1.webm (2.89 MB, 1280x720, 1613880646698.webm)

File: 1613926700533-2.webm (4.99 MB, 1280x720, 1613880363522.webm)

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 No.14321

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 No.14324

>>14321
Wraps are only a useful and important thing if you're planning on competing in a sport competition with heavy gloves on. Gloves and wraps function to protect the fists and allow fighters to punch harder for knockout blows. But if you're to the point like this guy claims where "I can't imagine ever training on a bag without wraps now" then you have trained yourself to punch in a way that's has a high probability of hurting your hands in a self-defense scenario. So it's important to be mindful of what you're training for.
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 No.14325

>>14324
>not including wrist wraps in your EDC
ngmi
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 No.14326

>>14325
I don't understand the weird initialisms you just used.
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 No.14327

>>14326
>edc
>every day carry
i do carry a bandana to wrap up my right fist if necessary.
though, in most cases, you'd be better off with palm strikes or jiu jitsu than a straight right to the head.
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 No.14328

>>14327
So you're prepared to spend several minutes or longer before an unexpected physical altercation to lock your knuckles properly with wrapping? Anon, just carry a knife.
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 No.14329

>>14328
>>14328
>several minutes
relax bro, just because you've never used a wrap before just means you can't punch for shit
it doesn't take that long to tie a knot
>carry a knife
not possible where i live
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 No.14330

>>14329 (me)
what i mean is, just wrap it around your wrist a bunch to keep it stiff.
A weightlifiting strap is a common, cheap, and fast way to this
im just poor no h8
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 No.14331

>>14330
I guess when I think of wrapping I'm thinking of carefully going around each finger and then the top to lock the knuckles in place. Regardless, it takes long enough that you can't possibly expect to do it when you're reacting to a surprise altercation (which is the vast majority of them).
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 No.14346

>>14254
Grappling. I can't train with people and it sucks.
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 No.14349

>judo taught in the West,
>my dad trains at the Budokwai in london
>karate schools open up in the west, on the back of the Bruce Lee kung fu boom
>teaches punches in the air
>gets criticised by guys like Geoff Thompson, Marc "Animal" Macyoung,
<this karate block will get ya killed in a real knife fight
<who popularise "reality based martial arts" , pressure testing
<anecdotes about street fights becomes important in marketing
<BJJ and MMA come along
<grapplers do well against kickboxers in the cage
<cage/octogon success becomes an important driver of the grappling boom
<icy mike gets in street beefs against ninja Ron Collins,
<defeats him with basic grappling
<ninjitsu Community denounce Ron Collins as a fake
<icy Mike says at least ninja Ron rose to the challenge ,
<but after a year or so comes up with vid related in any case arguing even bad martial arts is better than no martial arts - which rings true for me, most street fights I've seen have been between people who would have been toast against anyone with any ability whatsover
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 No.14350

>>14349 (me)
Also, for anyone interested, here's a good article on the vexed subject of "reality" in martial arts.
https://chinesemartialstudies.com/2015/09/04/costly-signals-credible-threats-and-the-problem-of-reality-in-the-chinese-martial-arts/
Starts with an interesting quote
<“A sabre,” said my teacher, Szabo,”is a tool for changing your opponent’s mind.”
<-“The Sabre’s Edge” by Rogan Winter
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 No.14351

>>14350
Here's some other good general writing on the pedagogy of "reality" vs scripting. This guy's writings actually convinced me to borrow, incorporate, and develop dynamic 2-person drills in my own school.
https://www.wayofleastresistance.net/2011/04/boards-dont-hit-back-missing-link.html
https://www.wayofleastresistance.net/2011/04/boards-dont-hit-back-part-2.html
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 No.14353

>>14349
This guy is kinda an idiot.

"If this had happened we would've heard it by now". WTF with this argument? Heard how? Let's say a robbery happens, robber has a knife, the victim is too confident for his own good in his abilities and tries to make a move on a robber, gets stabbed. There is a police report about robbery gone wrong. I doubt there would be a newspaper article about "guy who was taugh wrong marital arts". How exactly do you imagine "we would've know" happening in such cases?

Also, i know at least two guys who were hurt because they thought they could fight but couldn't (maybe you heard about Systema bullshit, they did it). And one of them i hurt myself.
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 No.14354

>>14353
Good point. The systema breathwork is good, but as self defence training it's crap. If they just did it like tai chi in the park for health it'd be alright.

, I have the slightly different problem. I've dabbled in various martial arts, but I don't know really how well they'd work, because my deescalation skills are really good.
I had one potential road rage incident the other day.
Him: do you want a fight? I'll fucking knock you out.
Me: No, I don't want a fight.
And we didn't fight!
When your blood is up all the good advice you've read about being the better man by walking away is useless, though.
You just can't think like that in the heat of the moment.
What works is "verbal judo" trickery. If you can make it clear to the other guy that (and any witnesses) that you're not the one starting the violence, you're just trying to stop the other person's violence. So basically, you're thinking to you're self I'm tricking him, if he starts it then he looses both ways. I can hurt him, but also, I won't get punished.
What would I fight for? I'd fight against predatory muggers, etc. I've done loads of knife training (kali), tested in the park with a mate trying to plug me with a rubber knife. (The only thing that worked reliably was pulling a weapon i. e. Ted lucaylucay-esque pocket stick
and chaining attacks with it myself.)
Basically, I can't afford to get mugged, financially or psychologically.
In these case, the story I'd tell myself is be a hero, really fight off multiple attackers or with weapons IRL,or go down fighting (my old age will probably be one of poverty, so won't miss living to an old age anyway.)
The problem is this type of training isn't as so testable as wresting or boxing a single unarmed opponent though.

There's an uncomfortable grey area between fights you can avoid and one's you are prepared to risk everything for. If someone is trying to bully you, if you don't do anything they'll do it more. Or someone is harassing your GF. You can't really do nothing. I work on some (mostly standing) grappling for this, grappling from clinches, double wrist locks. Not going a class, though I have done some wrestling . Just doing a few minutes sometimes with a grappling dummy in the morning sometimes. (Some wrist ties and underhooks from the video too, just to get some crossover between wrestling and knife defence)
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 No.14360

>>14354
The thing is that in a street enviroment everything goes ,one time i charged a guy pushing him ,then he triped on a plastic bottle almost smashing his head on the pavement
It was my first street battle experiance and really changed the way i was seeing martial battles
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 No.14379

File: 1614244033957.jpg (42.21 KB, 403x436, 1613850528468.jpg)

Asking this on an imageboard is a crapshoot since we're generally all loser nerds who don't actually do anything, but honestly for basic hand to hand self defence what is better: BJJ or boxing? I'm 5'8 and 180~lbs with a 1010lb powerlifting total if that makes any difference.

Besides radicalizing me into a red fascist the last year has convinced me that political violence might become more and more of a thing in the US and being a minority I'm realizing not know how to fuck someone up is putting me at risk. Of course owning and training with a gun is ideal (especially since Proud Soys and other wignats and rightoids never ever ever fight 1v1) but I'm wary of that due to mental health issues and living in a cucked state, so I'm left with learning a martial art.

Boxing seems like something I would actually want to get good at, but I am relatively small in stature compared to most rightoids so I'm not sure getting into a fist fight with people taller amd heavier than me is a good idea. The plus here is that I can stay standing, which is what scares me away from BJJ. BJJ seems like it's better for someone like me who looks unassuming (I'm a manlet and despite lifting I do not look strong) since most people might try to grab me and being physically strong seems like it would put me at a huge advantage against taller opponents here

wat do
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 No.14383

>>14379
Boxing is better on a street situation cause as the asian martial arts teach us:" if you get on the ground , you die "
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 No.14385

>>14379
Striking is always going to be better in a self-defense situation, but it should be noted that they are both highly sport-oriented combat systems. At least with boxing you can train yourself in an "outside fighter" style that is more oriented towards defense… against other boxers anyway.
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 No.14386

We really should divide this thread.
There should be
1. one martial arts thread that might as well include weapons and shooting techniques
2. one combat sports thread that might as well include fitness and nutrition

Just emphasizing that the difference between activities like kali and krav maga on one hand and kickboxing and submission wrestling on the other are great.
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 No.14388

>>14379
>BJJ or boxing?

Both are pretty bad, but i guess boxing is somewhat better because at least you don't learn to lie down in a fight.

If you are really a strong guy, like you say you are, i do suggest learning some throws. Sambo or judo would be my recommendation. A man thrown on a pavement rarely gets up to continue a fight. Or at all.
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 No.14422

>>14379
>I'm 5'8 and 180~lbs with a 1010lb powerlifting total if that makes any difference.

>Boxing seems like something I would actually want to get good at, but I am relatively small in stature compared to most rightoids so I'm not sure getting into a fist fight with people taller amd heavier than me is a good idea.


5'8 is barely below average height in USA (5'9") first of all.

Second, learning to box really well (with discipline and practice and staying in shape) can more than offset disparities in height and weight when the other guy (the guy taller or heavier than you) either doesn't know how to box at all or has a lower skill level in boxing.

Here you see retired lightweight (135 lb) pro boxer Scott Lawton clowning on the super heavyweight (320 lb) strongman Eddie Hall, who has set 1,000+ pound deadlift records:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9aIUrPrzEwU
Lawton peppers him with jabs and wails on Hall with stinging shots to the body and head, which Hall has no answer for.

Even when the other taller or heavier guy is also an experienced boxer, a smart gameplan implemented with discipline and properly timed, well placed shots can more than nullify their height and reach advantage.

This past December 2020, the 5'8 Saul "Canelo" Alvarez (same height as you) completely dominated the 6'4" Callum Smith from pillar to post, winning every single round of the 12 round fight for the super-middleweight (168 lb) world championship and leaving him bloody and battered. Canelo even tore Smith's tricep from how hard his punches landed on Callum's arms.
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 No.14424

>>14379
Canelo fought again this weekend against the 6'0" Yildirim and he just destroyed him, winning by 3rd round TKO after knocking Yildirim down in the 3rd and Yildirim's corner stopping the fight.

I mean, look at this guy. He's 5'8", for the past several years he's been shorter and/or smaller than every single one of his opponents and he still batters them. Observe how he times and places his shots and combos. Just turn up the volume and listen to how hard and how much pop Canelo delivers on his left hooks to the liver and head, his right cross, his short uppercuts etc.

Do you think there's anybody taller or heavier than him (who's not an elite pro boxer themselves) that would actually beat him in a fist fight? I doubt it.

Now obviously Canelo's the pound for pound #1 boxer in the world right now so you might counter that it's an extreme example, sure. But my point still stands that training consistently and at a high level in boxing (including heavy bag, padwork, jumprope, speed bag, sparring in the gym with headgear under a good coach) WILL help you offset height/weight disparities that you would encounter in self-defense fight situations, particularly bc these right-wingers you speak of (ProudBoys etc.) are highly unlikely to be pro boxers (or even amateur boxers) themselves and also are probably drunkards, so being sober + knowing how to box would both be in your favor.
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 No.14425

>>14379
>>14422 (me)
>>14424 (me)
Final thought: Weight classes exist for a reason in boxing, yes. But this is between other (pro or amateur) boxers.

When it comes to a high-level (pro or amateur) boxer vs guys that don't specifically train to box, even a good 145 pound boxer can easily spark an untrained heavyweight (200+ lb) opponent.
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 No.14427

>>14422
>>14424
Your examples of a short wad of meat beating up a lanky toothpick actually aren't that surprising when we're talking about weight classes. A shorter person, having less mass invested in their bones, cartilage, and viscera than a taller person, has a larger "weight budget" in the same weight class to invest in musculature to land more powerful blows. Not really a good analogy to his real world concern since nobody thinks about weight classes before an altercation.
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 No.14428

In other words, a shorter person that weighs the same as a taller person is going to make up the difference in frame with either more fat or more muscle (or both).
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 No.14429


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