No.5237[Last 50 Posts]
Comrades let's have a thread for martial arts, combat sports and self defense. Striking, grappling, all styles welcome (except fake ass shit). Let's talk about training, techniques, fights, fighters, etc. Here's a fun fact: One of the many achievements of the soviets was founding their own combat system, sambo, which proved to be extremely effective and is still widely practiced today. Also, Judo orange belt here (AMA if you want)
No.5238
Excellent Idea my good chap. What use is fitness without being able to make use of it?
No.5241
>>5238Indeed, the combination of exercising, growing stronger and learning how to fight is one of the reasons I love martial arts
No.5772
Anyone have advice on increasing speed and endurance in fights?
No.5774
>>5772For endurance practice your forms while holding weights
No.5816
Any one hit that Jiu Jiu?
No.5817
is it dumb to want to start martial arts off in something with little real sparring ?
No.5838
>>5817It's not bad at all. I think sparring is the real deal, but it's better than not doing anything.
No.5854
>>5772Muscle memory is essential for building up speed, and it requires practicing something over and over again. I trained with an olympic judoka once, and his throws were so incredibly fast I was baffled. Why is this? Simply because these guys practice each throw thousands and thousands of times. Their bodies are so used they go into cruise control and do it automatically. This is what muscle memory is all about. The same concept applies in boxing and other martial arts and many other things.
No.5878
So what exactly is so Brazilian about Brazilian Jiu Jitsu?
No.5937
>>5878Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu is a variant of Kosen Judo (which is a variant of Judo, and Judo is itself a reform of "traditional" japanese Jiu-Jitsu) invented in Brazil by Mitsuyo Maeda (a japanese man who came to South America to spread Kosen Judo, but he settled with with the Gracie family, a brazilian family with scottish ancestry).
Maeda with the Gracies changed Kosen Judo to a new form of Judo/Jiu-Jitsu then spread their new martial art all over of Brazil, the "Gracie Jiu-Jutsu" but then other brazilian dojos had appropriate for themselves Gracie Jiu-Jitsu (like Machado) and then rename it "Brazilian Jiu-Jutsu".
No.5995
RIP Adbulmanap Nurmagomedov
No.6003
>>5995Nice trips and dubs… somethings fishy about this death TBH.
No.6309
>>5854Thanks for the advice. I sort of knew this, but you've put it in a new perspective for me.
No.6411
>>5854>>5874Also putting emotion into your punches helps them increase speed, that's how Tyson was so powerful.
No.6480
>>6003>something fishywho would have a motive for murder? Dagestani mobsters or something? Some enemy of Ramzen Kadyrov?
No.6481
>>6480Unironically both would have a motive, but more likely he probably had some ailment, the doctors couldn't be assed enough to actually bother confirming WHAT caused the death, and just wrote COVID on the death certificate because it vaguely matched the results.
>inb4 that can't happenseveral doctors have come out about being told by their higher-ups to just write off even a hint of COVID in a recent death as caused by it even if it could have been Pneumonia or cardiac arrest, basically its to rack up the numbers for the hospital budget so that they get more 'funding' and the media gets to fear-monger a bit more to keep people paranoid.
Its a big porky mess.
No.6495
>>6494Was Muhammad Ali a leftist? I bet he sorta was.
No.6496
>>6495He was a bit black nationalist, but he was basically Maoist. He really liked the USSR.
No.6497
How about jackie chan? From what I’ve seen so far he seems to be a ccp loving billionaire porky. Is he a tankie or what
No.6498
>>6497He's doesn't really have n ideology, he really only cares about his films and his martial arts, so politics are largely irrelevant to him, he just goes wtih the flow as long as he gets to do his work.
No.6503
>>6497Jackie Chan is whatever the CCP is.
No.6507
>>6505He smokes 40,000 dollars of weed a month and keeps trying to drop truthbombs on his guests lmao
No.6552
>>6507>smokes 40,000 dollars of weed a monthSource?
No.6619
>>6618>with the aim of possibly making it to a professional levelKarate has no real professional scene such as boxing/kickboxing/MMA, only amateur competitions. You won't make a lot of money with karate.
No.6654
>>6618Anyone can learn a martial art at any age, and you can compete in plenty of amateur competitions and enjoy the sport. But I'd say becoming professional is another world. In stuff like boxing and MMA, most people who go pro at, say, 20 years old had amateur careers before that and had been training since childhood or teenage years. They train hard about everyday of the week, multiple times a day. You have to ask yourself if that's really what you want, if you can do it, if you have the time, the money, etc.
No.6655
>>6654>at any ageBefore the age of 6 most kids are not disciplined enough to learn anything of value… unless they're asian and thus strictly disciplined at home.
> No.6732
>>6730He grows his own weed, he doesn't need to BUY it.
No.6834
>>5838what would be a good place to start once COVID goes away
No.6838
>>6836Partially. I've been so physically inactive the last couple of months that I've noticed becoming way more stiff. If you're aiming for something involving kicks yoga could actually be a very good stating point, as yoga primarily involves stretching, stretching and more stretching.
Most men beginners in kickboxing classes aren't flexible enough to do head-kicks even after 12 months usually.
No.6839
>>6838I'm actually pretty flexible as is… like more flexible that most of my women friends. Is there more to gain out of Yoga beyond improved flexibility?
No.6840
>>6838>aren't flexible enough to do head-kicks even after 12 months usually.That's cause traditional martial arts don't have stretches for shits and giggles. I used to be unable to do a split as a kid. As an adult I can quite literally knee myself in the face with no effort if I'm not careful and casually drop into a split and rise up again. How? Stretch warm-ups and excessive axe kicks. As well as pushing your body to its limit with each kick and punch.
No.6842
>>6839Maybe in lessening anxiety problems? Next to stretching it's a lot of learning how to keep a cool head, breathing exercises, etc.
If you're not muscular maybe pick up swimming/gymnastics if you want to be
really prepared.
>no sparringThis is a bit tricky. Maybe kali/eskrima or krav maga? Because I don't want to give bad advice either. Most martial arts that are good become good because the techniques they relay are tested through sparring. Martial arts with little to no sparring is usually more a kin to intricate systems of dance rather than intricate systems of combat. Since kali/eskrima and krav maga are systems involivng weapons and such they are very hard to spar in (but at very advanced levels they spar too), but I'm not sure this is the answer you were looking for.
The streamlined answer to what the best hand-to-hand combat systems are you'd get this as a response:
picking 2-4: muay thai, sanshou/kickboxing, submission wrestling, judo, BJJ
to then go on to bringing this style of yours into more generalized MMA gyms.
No.6843
>>6842>Cont. (forgot one)Another honorable mention is vovinam.
No.6845
>>6842>muay thai, sanshou/kickboxing, submission wrestling, judo, BJJ Okay I'll try to ease myself into something. Your whole spiel about sparring has kind of convinced me of its importance at least at some point in the future. Are any of these styles known for being more or less welcoming to new comers or does it really just depend on the gym in your area?
No.6847
>>6845I was kind of nervous in the beginning too, but in my case the gym (x striking sport) was very welcoming, helpful and non-pretentiously educational (teaching like a learned peer rather than a Karate-Hirohito).
Just search out your age-/height-/weight-fraction of the group and acquaint yourself with them.
Also sometimes there will be one or two assholes with ego problems that might lowkey try to make training/sparring a fight, but as long as you have a backbone, communicate your boundaries loudly and clearly they'll get snapped back into reality. Narcissists usually prey on people with low self-esteem, so as long as such behavior is highlighted socially either indirectly or directly they'll either conform or eventually get kicked out (teachers usually don't tolerate it when they catch eye of it happening).
No.6876
Choose the style with the forms you'd like to execute the most. Every other aspect is meaningless. Every other advice is bullshit.
No.7620
Are you worried about CTE at all? Judoka don't get punch drunk like football players but I was just wondering. I'm going to start up again once quarantine ends.
No.7622
If you want to do grappling and wrestling, go for Sambo - the Russian military self-defense martial art. That combined with kick-boxing or Tae Kwon Do is the best combo.
Essentially however, Jeet Kun Do is the best.
No.7624
>>6839>I'm actually pretty flexible as is uwu… like more flexible that most of my women friends~L O N D O N
O
N
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N
No.7641
>>7622Do you know some Jeet Kun Do fighters who did kickboxing fights or at least full-contact karate fights?
No.7643
>>7620>Are you worried about CTE at all?Yes actually (and all of us should, considering our primary revolutionary task).
As long as you don't enter into competitions I think you
could be fine. CTE can develop in association football players heading the ball, which is concerning.
If one wants to be really cautious then regular fitness / gymnastics + martial arts like escrima and/or more grappling-oriented arts such as judo like you mentioned + shooting ranges could be a good set of alternatives.
I looked upon martial arts as systems of techniques that are good to practice for a shorter period of time and to thus memorize (muscle memory) the basics, to carry on with you for an elevated base-level of defense.
>>7622>>7641Sambo I agree on, it's really good. With jeet kune do I'm a bit more cautious. It hasn't performed very well in matches (I blame its wing chun influence; their system of "boxing" and """blocking""" is atrocious).
I'd recommend vovinam or sanshou as more robust, well-tested alternatives for jeet kune do.
No.7649
>>7643> their system of "boxing" and """blocking""" is atrociousYou have clearly never fought a wing chun master.
No.7656
I do HEMA stuff which is pretty dope.
But if you're looking for variety, it ain't it.
All pretty much boils down to 32 similar techniques with local flavour (like Italian Style, English Style, German Style, etc.).
Also very limited ground work, but the essence "back in the day" seems to be if you were on the ground you were fucked. Either getting a beat down from the boys, drowing in mud, getting stabbed by a dagger or mashed by a hammer, or just plain ol' "not gentlemanly".
Still, its nice fun. Add in some meme stuff like pugilism, DDLR, and Bartitsu, and they're very nice concise systems.
If you want to practice but there are no HEMA places locally, just do judo both with and without gi, 60 hours class time each. And if possible add some free style wrestling and/or greco-roman.
Throw in some boxing and muaythai for kicks (savate if you can locally too) and that's about it.
No.7666
>>7659LOL all this fake-master showboating shit. None of these faggots are masters. There's a channel made by an actual shaolin fighter who goes around debunking these people who claim to be "Masters".
No.7680
>>7666Do these shaolin "fighter" do actual fights?
No.7696
>>7620No. I think judo is pretty safe when it comes to that. Training and fighting are done on a protective mat, and the first thing they teach you when starting judo is how to fall correctly (ukemi) and to never ever land with your head. Of course I did hit my head a bunch of times during the first weeks, but generally it doesn't happen anymore.
No.8328
>>7680I don't think they do
No.8841
So whoever wins this fight is the certified GOAT martial artist in human history, right?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jY4tYBkz-FwMy money's on Cormier, the strikes are too sharp and his wrestling is Godly.
Just look at how he ragdolls Hendo here (20:48 to 24:20 in the vid):
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sY6LAEQ4pBEDC's most likely gonna ragdoll Stipe in a similar way come Saturday night. I just don't see any other outcome as particularly plausible tbh.
DC's arguably already GOAT anyway
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rf7H1w7JuGQbtw crackstreams (dot) com to watch it free this weekend No.8916
>>8841DC is my personal favorite between the two, mostly because I really like wrestling as an ex pro wrestling fan.
But after I saw the second fight, I don't know
who will win the third one, they really are equal to me, they could do a fourth or fifth fight, the results would be different each times.
No.8920
>>6843>VovinamHere's an example of the style against a tried-and-true muay thai fighter from Thailand, fighting under kickboxing rules (18min)
>Vovinam (Vietnam) VS Muay Thai (Thailand) finals in Chinahttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XSmSnbRUvc0I find it similar to Chinese sanshou kickboxing in that it utilizes very smart takedowns that aren't really a thing in 'normal' western kickboxing, muay thai, TKD, karate or mainstream teachings of MMA striking/takedowns (yet?…).
No.8997
>>8920That some very cool takedowns but what do you do after? I see that in a kickboxing match the referee stand up your opponent and you get some points by the judges but what would a vovinam/sanshou fighter would do after the takedown in a MMA or street fight?
No.9009
>>8997 >what would a vovinam/sanshou fighter would do after the takedown in a MMA [fight]Well my argument is that this is just a better striking style most probably, that is, better than the likes of muay thai, western kickboxing, TKD, karate, savate. Why? Because it transitions more smoothly to what I call different modules of fighting techniques. So let's say he did a takedown in MMA. Here he has several options. One is to allow himself to rest from a lack of barrages of attacks and for his opponent to expend energy to stand up. This has strategic consequences for later rounds. Or he could transition in-to the realm of submission wrestling, or of the opponent mounts him, BJJ.
>or street fight?Now here's a completely different scenario. In real life fighting from your back is basically suicidal, so that eliminates one module of techniques (BJJ). What you're left with is striking and submission wrestling. Good thing most of the world's population lives in urban areas today, since that means you, with your throws, have an incredible advantage vs an opponent that took a more standard kickboxing style. The same goes for judokas. You are "punching" with concrete. This is an immense advantage in street fights. Often times it takes no more than one successful throw outside for an opponent to reconsider and exit the conflict.
No.9379
>tfw contact sports and martial arts will be the last activities to come back after lockdown ends
Fucking why
No.9381
>>6842>Since kali/eskrima and krav maga are systems involivng weapons and such they are very hard to spar inArnis and many other weapons arts actually do something that not many unarmed combat systems have picked up on (sadly to their detriment): they have dynamic context drills where blocks and counters are practiced in a continuous activity with a partner.
No.9399
>>5237I'm trying to get into more social sports now that I've improved my cardio a bit but I'm torn between doing boxing and doing judo, there are good places for both in my area but I only have time for one and don't know which to go with
I get kind of nervous around people as well and all the boxing gyms in my area are pretty hard old school places so I'd feel kind of nervous going into one but it looks really interesting, I've done a little judo in the past as well and I'm tempted to go back but don't know
Thoughts?
Which is better to go to if I'm going more for the social and combative bits rather than general fitness (already pretty fit cardio wise)?
No.9406
>>9399Do you prefer striking or grappling?
Anyway, if you want to start easy I would say Judo.
No.9413
>>9406I have no idea
I just want to do a group sport to meet people and get more excercise but I'm too old and clumsy to start football or other ball sports
No.9414
>>9413Find one close to you doesn't matter what then
What it is isn't too important that you can get to it easily is
No.9415
>>9413>I'm too oldI won't ask you how old you are, but usually "old people" do Judo instead of boxing.
No.9417
>>9415Mid 20's, never played ball sports growing up and don't have much interest in them but that seems to be the main social sport other than combat sports so idk
All my other hobbies are hyper solitary or at least very small groups
No.9421
>>9417>Mid 20'sThat's not old at all, even for combat sports.
No.9436
>>9421>That's not old at allThen why do I feel so old and why do my knees make boomer noises
No.9439
>>9436>Then why do I feel so oldYou probably spend too much time on imageboards fill with teenagers and young adults.
>why do my knees make boomer noisesBecause you don't walk enough regularly and probably don't exercise at all.
No.9456
>>9417I started kickboxing when I was 30 with no experience at sports. I had basically been drinking alcohol, smoking cigarettes and eatin fast good for 10 years. I was in really bad shape. My age and shape didn't stop me. It should not stop you either.
No.9493
>>9439>>9456I am already quite physically fit see>>9399
its more for the other benefits but thanks for the encouragement
No.9502
>>9436Careful with grappling if you have bad knees or had previous surgery. I'd recommend using kneepads.
No.9503
>>9439>Because you don't walk enough regularly and probably don't exercise at all.Not him, but I regularly hike and my knees still crack whenever I squat. It's really troublesome because I'm a slav, I should be able to squat without issues.
No.9540
Hey comrades
I’v been working out on and off for a while but it seems like a good martial arts could be a good replacement for physical activity. Also recent events got me thinking it’s somewhat necessary to prepare for the fascist shitstorm that is unfolding in our world.
My goals are
1.Building muscle(as to replace workout if possible)
2.Posture correction and building self confidence
3. Self defense, usually confrontation & street fight. Additionally, learning how to disarm someone may be helpful I guess.
I’m 21 male 5’9” 145lbs
I’ve been interested in Krav Maga not because I intend to throat punch or maim someone, but because I got the impression that it’s more of a modernized martial arts w/ a quick learning curve.
Also off question but do you wear masks while training during quarantine? I’m wondering how training would work and if it’s even open during quarantine. Thanks
No.9597
>>9540Krav Maga is indeed a good idea for what you're looking for, but makes sure your Krav Maga gym does sparring, preferably a lot.
No.9599
>>9540Krav Maga is a military art, it's not what you're looking for if self defense is your interest.
No.9602
>>9599There's also Krav Maga for civilians, it's well known.
No.9622
>>9602So what does the civilian variant teach then? Conservative punches and kicks? Staying within or outside of the melee range? Standing throws only? Does the civilian variant
not emphasize horrible injuring or even killing people in a [b]self-defense[/b] scenario? Because it would have to change so much to be appropriate for civilian defense that I'd hesitate to call it Krav Maga anymore.
In case part of my argument is still unclear, here's a good article explaining the difference between civilian defense and horribly injuring people:
https://www.wayofleastresistance.net/2017/08/3-reasons-why-learning-to-horribly.html No.9623
>>9540Yeah, I wouldn't recommend doing Krav Maga. When it comes to fighting, all militaries have some sort of hand to hand combat training. These courses are designed to build confidence and teach basic fighting skills because they don't want soldiers shitting themselves in a hand to hand fight. Militaries don't have time to train proficient fighters. It's not designed to create athletes or professional fighters. My recommendation would be to go with a proven and known effective martial art, like boxing, muay thai, judo, wrestling, BJJ, etc. Figure out what you like the most, striking or grappling.
No.9626
>>9622I was just saying that Krav Maga can also be teach to civilians.
But to respond to your argument, some people want to learn "how to horribly injuring someone" when those people talk about "self-defense", they just mean street fighting efficiency. But I agree they should not use the word "self-defense" then.
No.9644
>>9599>>9623What about combat sambo? There’s a gym 25 minutes away, but looking at the sparring videos I’m already intimidated because they look like mma and idk if I’m ready for that kind of ouchie. It gets bonus points for having a soviet origin.
No.9647
>>9644"combat" sambo is a meme. It's just a PR. You are lucky if you have some oldie instructor that knows actual sambo, which is pretty useful in a fight. Most "combat" sambo gyms i visited just taught some basic strikes and mma-style grappling.
Just try to find some regular sambo gyms.
No.9660
>>9647https://www.sambotexas.com/copy-of-affiliate-levels-1This looks pretty legit though, don’t you think? thanks for helping out
No.9672
>>9660Well, it doesn't raise any red flags for me at least. Hard to say without looking at their training course, but you should try at least.
Sambo is probably the best wrestling style to learn for streets since it does teach you to always come back to your feet and doesn't focus on ground grappling, which is a very dangerous thing to do on a street for many reasons.
After some training i would recommend learning soft falling techniques on hard ground (don't start with pavement at first). Falling techniques that are taught in sport usually are taught with soft ground in mind and can be dangerous to implement on hard ground. Learn to fall and roll on actual ground. Try to always make every fall a roll.
No.9722
>>9719>what's the best kung-fu style?Sanda/Sanshou, if it counts.
>have the choice to learn hung-gar ,zui quan or shaolinBetween those I would say shaolin.
No.9740
>>9719Kung Fu isn't even a large overarching martial art like karate, it's just a generic name for Chinese martial arts, of which there is incredible variety. My focus has been karate (an external, "hard" style) for a long time, and the Chinese arts I would most like to learn more about are Wing Chun (an external "soft" style that makes extensive use of dynamic context drills to train interception reflexes), Xing Yi Quan (an "internal" martial art), and Southern Praying Mantis (which blends some internal and external aspects). I'm not very interested in the chi hocus pocus that a lot of internal styles peddle but I do think they have some legitimate ideas when it comes to short-range power generation.
No.9742
>>9719Don't look at the style, look at the teacher. He should be the guy who actually done some fighting in his life.
No.9743
>>9740>I'm not very interested in the chi hocus pocus that a lot of internal styles peddleActually chi is just proper breathing in it's essense, though it is a bit bigger than that. If you wanna hear scientific explanations here it is - your breathing is the only thing that is connected to both autonomic (vegetative) and somatic nervous systems. In most cases stuff like heart beating, body temperature and so on are controlled by autonomic system and you can't control it directly through the brain, but you can control your breath and through that you can learn to control some other things, making you able to push the limits of your body a bit farther than you would be able otherwise. It's a bit more complicated than that, but this is the general idea of what chi is.
There are of course some fake gurus who will tell shit about cosmic energy or something too.
No.9799
>>9694Is it because he's had his ears boxed anon?
No.9811
>>9799Cauliflower ear is an occupational hazard for wrestler. If he has them then you know that he at least did some on a serious level.
No.9813
>>9799Because the only effective martial arts this far proven to have efficacy are those that require active combat training, and if you practice any martial art with real training you're going to get the cauliflower ear. A cursory scroll through this thread has actual retards advocating karate/wing-tsun/krav maga shit that has never proven itself in cross disciplinary competition. They'll cry that their art is too dangerous for sport but that's bullshit. I did bjj for a while and Gracie-cels constantly cried that Dana White cucked the rules against their style because it's an easier cope than admitting that the meta evolved with the sport and away from their discipline
No.9859
>>9644I wouldn't miss a chance to at least try Sambo if it's close to you, since it's not very common outside former eastern bloc countries. Sambo is pretty based, it has a lot of judo throws from what I've seen. Its founder studied at the Kodokan in Japan under Jigoro Kano (founder of judo) and later created Sambo in the USSR.
No.9861
>>9813>They'll cry that their art is too dangerous for sport but that's bullshit.Cool macho straw man but no, my assertion is that karate is designed for [b]civilian self-defense[/b], rather than two guys fighting in an arena with rules. And I think it does rather well at that, though obviously there are large quality differences across styles.
No.9863
>>9813>only good martial arts fuck your ears upCope.
No.9870
>>9813>and if you practice any martial art with real training you're going to get the cauliflower ear.Not necessarily. Strikers have a lot less chance to get it, compared to wrestlers.
No.9871
>>9813>They'll cry that their art is too dangerous for sport but that's bullshit. I did bjj for a while and Gracie-cels constantly cried that Dana White cucked the rules against their style because it's an easier cope than admitting that the meta evolved with the sport and away from their disciplineBJJ is pure sport discipline. I would say it is least adapted to actual street fight. So trying to dab on traditional martial arts just makes you look like a salty looser.
No.9876
Is the presence of reactionaries in martial gyms overblown or i have to go out of my way to find gyms that say that are clearly antifa/no cops etc ?
No.9877
>>9876Depends where you go for what like everything else
I noticed that there were a lot of pretend tough guy rightoids in the mcdojo's I checked out a few weeks ago, but few to none in the more serious places for mundaner stuff like Boxing and Judo, don't know about Krav Maga and BJJ and the other stuff mentioned in this thread because there's nowhere here to learn that
Shit places attract shit people I guess
No.9881
>>9876It's a problem everywhere. Disciplines of violence are often used to glorify violence and reactionaries with inferiority complexes are strongly attracted to them.
No.9926
>>9881Only in some niche gyms. Besides, it's not like you have time to talk about politics or some other shit anyway if you go to real gym.
No.10582
Anybody got some good martial arts youtube channels?
This guy is really good:
https://www.youtube.com/user/Shigashi84 No.10587
>>10583If you practice martial arts, or at least in judo, you're going to come across a cop or former cop at some point almost inevitably. Personally I avoid talking politics in dojos.
No.11622
Anybody see the Khabib fight?
No.11632
>>11622I wanted to, cause he's a good fighter, but it's too expensive, so I'll wait until free recordings can be found.
No.11641
>>11633If you can do them on concrete without breaking something, go for it, i guess. Getting prone in a real fight is bad though. Always.
No.11644
>>11632I found an upload here, though its slightly cut
https://youtu.be/fYVYXdBTle4>>11633Looks powerful but really difficult to pull off in a combat
No.11658
what is a good form of hand-to-hand to learn for a smaller guy
No.11836
>>11658handshake and polite smile.
No.11932
>>11658Boxing, Mike Tyson peekaboo style
No.11939
>>11932Boxing is pretty shit for actual fights.
No.11951
>>11950Seriously?
Because it is a sport and very specialized one at that. First of all, for a sport that specializes strictly in punching it doesn't teach you how to punch properly by making you wear gloves. I have seen shitload of bozers busting their fists because they don't know how to even make one properly, not even mentioning knowing how to hit and where to hit so that you don't break your hand. It is something that you need to practice constantly. Second, it doesn't teach you anything except highly defensive sport style against single opponent who will only punch you into head and torso. It is not very good style to learn unless you already an experienced fighter and can adapt it's techniques to different environment.
Most of the sport styles are only good at getting you better conditioning and pain resistance. You can get that with just doing gymnastics. Some sports are especially retarded though and actually can endanger you in a real fight. Boxing and bjj are prime examples.
No.11952
>>11951Curious on thoughts of taekwondo or competitive kickboxing training applied in a real self-defense situation. How does for example a spinning kick or an axe kick compare to going to the ground or ignoring lower body defense like wrestler or boxer? A bit better or just as bad/worse?
No.11955
>>11952Not all wrestling have to go to the ground. A lot of traditional wrestling styles actually don't do that. Goung to the ground is a big no-no in the fight. The usefullness is very situational but danger is constant. Which is why i said that bjj is bad. In fact my opinion it is the shitties sport you can learn in regards to real fight.
A regular kickboxing is ok as far as sport can be ok in this matter.
If by spinning kick you mean something like ushiro geri, it is useful in the fight, but all big moves require setup for them to work. Effectiveness of the kicks depend very much on your stability and agility, so it is something you need to train for a long time before you can reliably use it in the fight.
No.12158
>learn Krava Maga
>knee Netanyahu in the balls and break his arm
>learn Brazilian jujitsu
>choke out Bolsonaro
>learn Maui Thai
>Kick the king of Thailand straight in his head
this is based.
No.12165
>>11952I’ve trained taekwondo for years, in terms of of practical application I would say it’s better for conditioning/training than actual fights. Spin kicks can be effective as misdirection, but they’re too risky to pull off. An axe kick I wouldn’t attempt in a real fight as the higher you kick the more you’re raising your center of gravity/throwing off your balance.
However, it’s excellent to practice as it makes your legs very agile. For a street fight though I’d stick to muay thai kicks and maybe a few low taekwondo side kicks to the knees or something.
No.12166
>>12165>in terms of of practical application I would say it’s better for conditioning/training than actual fights Also a long time Tae Kwon Do practitioner, I don't know what school your were taught in, but it's very much applicable to actual fights.
>spin kicksI assume this is a general statement for kicks like Wheel kick and Turning side. I have to say that this is is blatantly untrue. A wheel kick is devastating, I've seen it and done it. The same goes for Turning side kick or 360 roundhouse. Whether an individual is good enough to use this in practical fights is a different matter that depends on the physical limitations or circumstances of that individual. A former sparring partner of mine could do a mean turning side kick, but a workplace accident led to him being unable to do it properly anymore.
>the higher you kick the more you’re raising your center of gravity/throwing off your balanceThat's a load of bullshit. This only applies to swinging/spinning kicks and is countered by the fact that you use your body as part of the momentum and as a counter-balance; either bend back or bend forward with the kick.
This honestly sounds like a problem related to you specifically m8, most likely incorrectly doing the kicks habitually.
No.12167
>>12165>>12165Would you ever use a hook kick in a self defense context?
No.12310
>>12231What is it you think your videos prove? Do you have an argument?
No.12312
>>12310>What is it you think your videos prove? Do you have an argument?Gee, idk, that boxing is highly effective in actual fights maybe? Something that would be obvious if you actually watched even just the first video, where a boxer knocks out multiple attackers?
You're the one who argued that "boxing is pretty shit for actual fights" yet there are tons and tons of videos on the internet that indicate the exact opposite.
No.12321
>>12312>You're the one who argued that "boxing is pretty shit for actual fights"Not even the anon you're replying to. Videos can be found of people defending themselves with most fighting disciplines, anecdotes aren't really an argument one way or another for their relative effectiveness. You didn't respond to most of that anon's arguments. I would even venture to guess that some of those boxers in those videos hurt their hands in aiming for the jaw just as that poster claimed.
No.12324
>>12231Learn to read
>It is not very good style to learn unless you already an experienced fighter and can adapt it's techniques to different environment.Boxing as a style isn't good for fights. Boxers can be good at actual fights, more often than not, because they have actual experience of them and adapted techniques to different environment. It is not something everybody can do, so it's better to pick a style where you don't have overcome plenty of glaring weaknesses in the first place. Also, any sport will make you better at fights than untrained normies (especially drunk ones like in many of your videos), do we need to have an argument if powerlifting should be considered a fighting style?
No.12325
>>12324To add, in more than half of your videos, i can bet my balls it's not even a boxer, judging by movement and striking techniques. Just because someone punched somebody else with a hand doesn't make him a boxer, even if the video on youtube says so.
No.12336
>>12167No hook kick is among the swinging kicks that requires a lot of proficiency to use well. A wheel kick would be easier to be honest. The best use of a hook kick IRL is to strike the back of the leg of an opponent before coming in with an upper-body blow.
No.12341
>>12325>To add, in more than half of your videos, i can bet my balls it's not even a boxer, judging by movement and striking techniques.Look at just that first video of the guy knocking out multiple attackers. Notice his quick sideways and downward head movement when he evades the initial strikes from the first guy who attacks him, how he holds his hands up, his footwork, his timing, his distance management, the way he uses the jab to set up counters on the attackers charging in, the combos. That's not something you're born knowing how to do. That's something you have to learn by practicing the proper techniques with a coach and actually applying those techniques through sparring in a gym to gain experience.
No.12367
>>12166>I assume this is a general statement for kicks like Wheel kick and Turning side. I have to say that this is is blatantly untrue. A wheel kick is devastating, I've seen it and done it. The same goes for Turning side kick or 360 roundhouse. Whether an individual is good enough to use this in practical fights is a different matter that depends on the physical limitations or circumstances of that individual. A former sparring partner of mine could do a mean turning side kick, but a workplace accident led to him being unable to do it properly anymore. Of course the physical limitations matter, that’s why when I said it isn’t practical I was thinking more about an average taekwondo student or practitioner. A master of any martial arts would be better off in a street fight against a normie so that’s not really a point. And sparring is not the same as a real fight, in a real street fight you don’t have the luxury of miscalculating or wasting a move. I would not attempt a spin kick in a real street fight. Even the act of turning your head to spot the target is time that you are not looking at your opponent (however brief you may consider it to be).
>That's a load of bullshit. This only applies to swinging/spinning kicks and is countered by the fact that you use your body as part of the momentum and as a counter-balance; either bend back or bend forward with the kick.Again I was speaking in terms of the average practitioner. Most people do not have the flexibility for high kicks and throwing a high kick would be putting them off balance.
Even then I wouldn’t throw high kicks either because they’re traveling a longer distance and are easier to catch. Just look at all the taekwondo matchups with a muay thai expert, tkd always gets BTFO’d because thais are very good at catching.
Also in a street fight with adrenaline pumping you’re more likely to overextend the kick and throw yourself off balance.
These are pointless risks that are not worth taking. Street fights happen fast and I would not be doing any flashy tornado kicks to their face. Also spin kicks are not that accurate and hard to land on a moving target.
Sounds like you need to spar with people outside your tkd circlejerk.
No.12449
>>12367All your arguments are just basically
>hey you're just (somehow) super special because you're good at training1) No-one says TKD would be picked up in a year, however I can definitely say that my flexibility, strength and balance improved within the first year I STARTED.
2) I wouldn't call myself a Master of TKD
3) Adrenalin overextensions, 'timewasteing' and other issues are literally nitpicking. This is what training is supposed to be for, to practice and improve abilities until they are applicable IRL. That's literally every martial art ever.
>spar with people outside tkdI do. Probably the toughest opponents are kick-boxers who use grappling, for anyone inexperienced they're a pain… but that applies to literally anyone trained or not.
Also on the topic of looking behind and wasting time. You do that with the momentum of the kick. Even dismissing that, front-kick hopping front kick are no joke and definitely pack a punch.
No.12450
I played mortal kombat ever since i was in elementary school am i a qualified martial artist?
No.12477
>>12165>However, it’s excellent to practice as it makes your legs very agile.Karate guy here, I'd say I have exceptionally graceful, precise, and powerful kicks among my peers, but I don't actually use kicks too often while sparring because I've always felt like my legs are just a little too slow or obvious. What particular aspects of your training would you characterize as making your legs agile?
No.12501
>>12477> What particular aspects of your training would you characterize as making your legs agile?TKD dude here. The best training for leg speed is weights and kicking high as possible as hard and fast as possible every day. It makes your mid-body kicks and swings much faster. Also focus on technique. The small details like bending the knee before a sidekick, for example, become key as you progress, as it is a pre-requisite for maintaining your kick's power as you increase speed.
Also practise double kicks forcing your leg to move low then high at full power forces the muscles to adapt.
No.12505
>>12449The original anon asked about spin kicks being useful and you were trying to argue that they were and now in your response you’re implying front kicks are effective and you struggle with kickboxers.
That was the whole point, it’s better for conditioning than training. Front kicks are not unique to Tkd and Muay Thai technique is better.
> 1) No-one says TKD would be picked up in a year, however I can definitely say that my flexibility, strength and balance improved within the first year I STARTED. See above
>This is what training is supposed to be for, to practice and improve abilities until they are applicable IRL. There’s an element you can’t train in a street fight, tkd just makes certain crucial mistakes more likely to happen. Why train against overextension when you can just do some low kicks or something else in the first place.
I can throw high kicks very easily and very fast to the face, I still wouldn’t risk it in a street fight unless I saw the opponent was weak/slow.
> Also on the topic of looking behind and wasting time. You do that with the momentum of the kick.No that’s bad technique you spot first. I can still spot fast and kick high and fast but I would not chance it. Also the tkd stance is poor and bouncing wastes energy.
No.12506
>>12501I've tried to use ankle weights during martial arts routines before and it doesn't turn out like you'd think it might. They either shuffle around too much to be useful or you tighten them so hard they become painful and cut off your circulation.
No.12509
>>12506>avoid pain>martial artsSrsly though if those don’t work there are other things you can do like focus mitt drills, or you can try ankle straps with resistance bands. Though resistance bands are kind of annoying. Target practice, speed practice switching around targets really fast develops reflexes.
Also if you’re like me and want to be a weirdo, try doing more household tasks with your legs and feet only like those cripplefags.
No.12578
>>12341And your point is? Nothing you said contradicts what i said.
No.12583
>>12506>it doesn't turn out like you'd think it mightThis sounds like a you problem
No.13707
Any strikers have any good shadow drills? It's so hard to maintain your skills with dojos closed and nobody to work with.
No.14238
I officially haven't trained for a year, bros…
No.14254
>>14238What's stopping you? Are you a wrestler? The great thing about striking arts is you can keep yourself fit in small spaces.
No.14255
>>5237I have been swinging punches daily
Is that something? Am I do martial arts?
No.14256
>>14255Until you wrap your fist and punch a bag, it is not martial arts tbh
No.14261
>>14256And what makes wrapping a fist and punching a bag a martial art?
No.14262
>>14261It makes your wrist more stable, allowing you see how to
really punch without it
No.14272
>>14256I don't have any punching bags anon :(
no money
what do i do
i have been thinking about doing weight training by grabbing heavy things and practicing punching in the air
at least that way my punches will be faster and swifter
No.14324
>>14321Wraps are only a useful and important thing if you're planning on competing in a sport competition with heavy gloves on. Gloves and wraps function to protect the fists and allow fighters to punch harder for knockout blows. But if you're to the point like this guy claims where "I can't imagine ever training on a bag without wraps now" then you have trained yourself to punch in a way that's has a high probability of hurting your hands in a self-defense scenario. So it's important to be mindful of what you're training for.
No.14325
>>14324>not including wrist wraps in your EDCngmi
No.14326
>>14325I don't understand the weird initialisms you just used.
No.14327
>>14326>edc >every day carry i do carry a bandana to wrap up my right fist if necessary.
though, in most cases, you'd be better off with palm strikes or jiu jitsu than a straight right to the head.
No.14328
>>14327So you're prepared to spend several minutes or longer before an unexpected physical altercation to lock your knuckles properly with wrapping? Anon, just carry a knife.
No.14329
>>14328>>14328>several minutesrelax bro, just because you've never used a wrap before just means you can't punch for shit
it doesn't take that long to tie a knot
>carry a knifenot possible where i live
No.14330
>>14329 (me)
what i mean is, just wrap it around your wrist a bunch to keep it stiff.
A weightlifiting strap is a common, cheap, and fast way to this
im just poor no h8
No.14331
>>14330I guess when I think of wrapping I'm thinking of carefully going around each finger and then the top to lock the knuckles in place. Regardless, it takes long enough that you can't possibly expect to do it when you're reacting to a surprise altercation (which is the vast majority of them).
No.14346
>>14254Grappling. I can't train with people and it sucks.
No.14350
>>14349 (me)
Also, for anyone interested, here's a good article on the vexed subject of "reality" in martial arts.
https://chinesemartialstudies.com/2015/09/04/costly-signals-credible-threats-and-the-problem-of-reality-in-the-chinese-martial-arts/Starts with an interesting quote
<“A sabre,” said my teacher, Szabo,”is a tool for changing your opponent’s mind.”<-“The Sabre’s Edge” by Rogan Winter No.14351
>>14350Here's some other good general writing on the pedagogy of "reality" vs scripting. This guy's writings actually convinced me to borrow, incorporate, and develop dynamic 2-person drills in my own school.
https://www.wayofleastresistance.net/2011/04/boards-dont-hit-back-missing-link.htmlhttps://www.wayofleastresistance.net/2011/04/boards-dont-hit-back-part-2.html No.14353
>>14349This guy is kinda an idiot.
"If this had happened we would've heard it by now". WTF with this argument? Heard how? Let's say a robbery happens, robber has a knife, the victim is too confident for his own good in his abilities and tries to make a move on a robber, gets stabbed. There is a police report about robbery gone wrong. I doubt there would be a newspaper article about "guy who was taugh wrong marital arts". How exactly do you imagine "we would've know" happening in such cases?
Also, i know at least two guys who were hurt because they thought they could fight but couldn't (maybe you heard about Systema bullshit, they did it). And one of them i hurt myself.
No.14354
>>14353Good point. The systema breathwork is good, but as self defence training it's crap. If they just did it like tai chi in the park for health it'd be alright.
, I have the slightly different problem. I've dabbled in various martial arts, but I don't know really how well they'd work, because my deescalation skills are really good.
I had one potential road rage incident the other day.
Him: do you want a fight? I'll fucking knock you out.
Me: No, I don't want a fight.
And we didn't fight!
When your blood is up all the good advice you've read about being the better man by walking away is useless, though.
You just can't think like that in the heat of the moment.
What works is "verbal judo" trickery. If you can make it clear to the other guy that (and any witnesses) that you're not the one starting the violence, you're just trying to stop the other person's violence. So basically, you're thinking to you're self I'm tricking him, if he starts it then he looses both ways. I can hurt him, but also, I won't get punished.
What would I fight for? I'd fight against predatory muggers, etc. I've done loads of knife training (kali), tested in the park with a mate trying to plug me with a rubber knife. (The only thing that worked reliably was pulling a weapon i. e. Ted lucaylucay-esque pocket stick
and chaining attacks with it myself.)
Basically, I can't afford to get mugged, financially or psychologically.
In these case, the story I'd tell myself is be a hero, really fight off multiple attackers or with weapons IRL,or go down fighting (my old age will probably be one of poverty, so won't miss living to an old age anyway.)
The problem is this type of training isn't as so testable as wresting or boxing a single unarmed opponent though.
There's an uncomfortable grey area between fights you can avoid and one's you are prepared to risk everything for. If someone is trying to bully you, if you don't do anything they'll do it more. Or someone is harassing your GF. You can't really do nothing. I work on some (mostly standing) grappling for this, grappling from clinches, double wrist locks. Not going a class, though I have done some wrestling . Just doing a few minutes sometimes with a grappling dummy in the morning sometimes. (Some wrist ties and underhooks from the video too, just to get some crossover between wrestling and knife defence)
No.14360
>>14354The thing is that in a street enviroment everything goes ,one time i charged a guy pushing him ,then he triped on a plastic bottle almost smashing his head on the pavement
It was my first street battle experiance and really changed the way i was seeing martial battles
No.14383
>>14379Boxing is better on a street situation cause as the asian martial arts teach us:" if you get on the ground , you die "
No.14385
>>14379Striking is always going to be better in a self-defense situation, but it should be noted that they are both highly sport-oriented combat systems. At least with boxing you can train yourself in an "outside fighter" style that is more oriented towards defense… against other boxers anyway.
No.14386
We really should divide this thread.
There should be
1. one martial arts thread that might as well include weapons and shooting techniques
2. one combat sports thread that might as well include fitness and nutrition
Just emphasizing that the difference between activities like kali and krav maga on one hand and kickboxing and submission wrestling on the other are great.
No.14388
>>14379>BJJ or boxing?Both are pretty bad, but i guess boxing is somewhat better because at least you don't learn to lie down in a fight.
If you are really a strong guy, like you say you are, i do suggest learning some throws. Sambo or judo would be my recommendation. A man thrown on a pavement rarely gets up to continue a fight. Or at all.
No.14422
>>14379>I'm 5'8 and 180~lbs with a 1010lb powerlifting total if that makes any difference.
>Boxing seems like something I would actually want to get good at, but I am relatively small in stature compared to most rightoids so I'm not sure getting into a fist fight with people taller amd heavier than me is a good idea.5'8 is barely below average height in USA (5'9") first of all.
Second, learning to box really well (with discipline and practice and staying in shape) can more than offset disparities in height and weight when the other guy (the guy taller or heavier than you) either doesn't know how to box at all or has a lower skill level in boxing.
Here you see retired lightweight (135 lb) pro boxer Scott Lawton clowning on the super heavyweight (320 lb) strongman Eddie Hall, who has set 1,000+ pound deadlift records:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9aIUrPrzEwULawton peppers him with jabs and wails on Hall with stinging shots to the body and head, which Hall has no answer for.
Even when the other taller or heavier guy is also an experienced boxer, a smart gameplan implemented with discipline and properly timed, well placed shots can more than nullify their height and reach advantage.
This past December 2020, the 5'8 Saul "Canelo" Alvarez (same height as you) completely dominated the 6'4" Callum Smith from pillar to post, winning every single round of the 12 round fight for the super-middleweight (168 lb) world championship and leaving him bloody and battered. Canelo even tore Smith's tricep from how hard his punches landed on Callum's arms.
No.14424
>>14379Canelo fought again this weekend against the 6'0" Yildirim and he just destroyed him, winning by 3rd round TKO after knocking Yildirim down in the 3rd and Yildirim's corner stopping the fight.
I mean, look at this guy. He's 5'8", for the past several years he's been shorter and/or smaller than every single one of his opponents and he still batters them. Observe how he times and places his shots and combos. Just turn up the volume and listen to how hard and how much pop Canelo delivers on his left hooks to the liver and head, his right cross, his short uppercuts etc.
Do you think there's anybody taller or heavier than him (who's not an elite pro boxer themselves) that would actually beat him in a fist fight? I doubt it.
Now obviously Canelo's the pound for pound #1 boxer in the world right now so you might counter that it's an extreme example, sure. But my point still stands that training consistently and at a high level in boxing (including heavy bag, padwork, jumprope, speed bag, sparring in the gym with headgear under a good coach) WILL help you offset height/weight disparities that you would encounter in self-defense fight situations, particularly bc these right-wingers you speak of (ProudBoys etc.) are highly unlikely to be pro boxers (or even amateur boxers) themselves and also are probably drunkards, so being sober + knowing how to box would both be in your favor.
No.14425
>>14379>>14422 (me)
>>14424 (me)
Final thought: Weight classes exist for a reason in boxing, yes. But this is between other (pro or amateur) boxers.
When it comes to a high-level (pro or amateur) boxer vs guys that don't specifically train to box, even a good 145 pound boxer can easily spark an untrained heavyweight (200+ lb) opponent.
No.14427
>>14422>>14424Your examples of a short wad of meat beating up a lanky toothpick actually aren't that surprising when we're talking about weight classes. A shorter person, having less mass invested in their bones, cartilage, and viscera than a taller person, has a larger "weight budget" in the same weight class to invest in musculature to land more powerful blows. Not really a good analogy to his real world concern since nobody thinks about weight classes before an altercation.
No.14428
In other words, a shorter person that weighs the same as a taller person is going to make up the difference in frame with either more fat or more muscle (or both).
No.14893
>>5237https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Uj8cNECHLeYHow would you defeat this bloated nazi?
What sort of martial arts technique is useful against opponents that are extremely bigger and heavier than you?
No.14895
>>14893Aim at their kneecaps son, smack that patella out and make the knee bend the wrong way
All that weight won't help them now
stalinStalin No.14896
>>14895I figured as much the knees seem to be the weakest if someone weighs too much.
Aim at the kneecap with feet kick or punches btw
No.14897
>>14896>aim at knee with punchesU wot son?
stalinStalin No.14898
>>14893Strength and size don't translate too well into fighting if you have no background or training. Have you seen powerlifters and bodybuilders trying out martial arts? Most of them suck. It's the guys who have both a background in martial arts and are big and strong who are the scary ones. That said, Stalin stache is probably right about kicking and keeping the distance. This guy is a whopping 200 kg, he'd get tired fast. I'm not a heavyweight but I've trained on the ground with people who are 120 kg. A heavyweight black belt in BJJ or judo could take out a guy like this on the ground.
No.14900
>>14897yeah it would be awkward to bend and punch somebody's knee
kicks are better
>>14898oh okay
how do expert fighters train their stamina for fights?
basic cardio or is it specifically practicing fighting techniques for several hours.
No.14901
>train your stamina for fights
Sports fights have all sorts of rules designed intentionally around dragging out fights. Real altercations are typically over in less than a minute. You don't train your stamina for those, you train it to be better at running away.
No.14906
>>14901i will attempt to do suicides everyday
that ought to build running stamina
i saw basketball players do it on CW
No.14911
>>14901>Real altercations are typically over in less than a minute. True. Then again, having great stamine means that there are less chances of being tired before the fight started. Unlike sport fighters you can't be sure that you will always fight in your best condition. Training physical and mental stamina is important.
No.14912
>>14898If your opponent is 200 kilos, chances are your kicks are not gonna be enough to push him back, unless they are really powerful.
>Have you seen powerlifters and bodybuilders trying out martial arts? Most of them suckIt is because they don't try martial arts, they try combat sports with shitload of rules and very specific environment. DO NOT underestimate powerlifters.
No.14918
>>14911>>14912what are your recommendations for defeating fat powerlifters?
how do i train to defeat everybody
No.14931
>>14918>how do i train to defeat everybodyYou fight everybody.
No.14937
>>14918First, drop the "I wanna fight people" act. People who learn martial arts to get into street fights don't last much, and this is something that's always looked down upon in dojos and clubs. Also, if anything, sparring and training with others made me realize the inherent danger and unpredictability of street fights.
No.14939
>>14937>>14931I don't want to fight people, but I want to be able to have more tactics other than running away
There's nobody near me to spar or train with.
No.14941
>>14939>There's nobody near me to spar or train with.You can't acquire practical skill without practicing them. This should be obvious.
You can't just read some board and learn how to beat someone several times stronger and bigger than you are. You do that by years of rigorous practice (including physical training) and fighting those kinds of opponents.
I dunno, buy a gun or something.
No.14943
>>14941I don't have money or the means to buy gun.
I just want some martial arts theory that I can read and understand or practice something basic alone.
A crumble of idea on what to do when forced to fight is better than having no idea
No.14944
>>14943>A crumble of idea on what to do when forced to fight is better than having no ideaNo. It is worse because it instills false confidence in you.
Buy a kettlebell and practice (not necessarily a new one). You can't practice martial arts alone, but you can train your body. So, do that.
No.14945
>>14944No.
Do you know any books about martial arts or not
No.14947
>>14944You can certainly practice strikes and blocks alone, you just can't get any real feedback without a partner.
No.14954
>>14948Asswipe
why are you so mean for no reason
No.14955
>>14954Get your vaccine and go rolling at your dojo. Learning to fight from a book is the most ridiculous leftcom shit I've ever heard
No.14958
>>14956thanks for the pdf
No.14973
>>14945You are either a troll or complete retard.
No.14974
>>14947>You can certainly practice SEX alone, you just can't get any real feedback without a partner.This is how dumb this sounds.
No.14988
>>14974Well no, in fact that's a retarded analogy.
No.14990
>>14988It is a perfect analogy. In both cases you can "practice" all you want alone, but the results will be laughable.
No.15002
Hi /ma/, I've been a couch potato for the last 10+ years, though I did karate until my early teens which I loved, and believe has helped me form much of the discipline that has aided me in my life.
I would like to start some martial art again, after COVID is over, but my body is totally fucked from being a couch potato. I mean real fucked. My shoulders - fucked, my neck-fucked, my legs-fucked.
I've been doing some exercises the last few months but I keep getting small injuries in like my shoulders and stuff from doing really simple things like pushups. I have noticed a vast improvement in my physical condition, but I'm not really confident that … my body is ready.
Any thoughts from you martialoids on this, or perhaps suggestions on what type of exercise program to follow to build up strength without fucking myself?
No.15003
>>15002Start with long walks and maybe some swimming
Remember to do your warmups and stretches before any intense excercise to reduce the risk of injury
No.15059
>>15002What do you mean your body is fucked? Do you have serious injuries or a medical condition? You should get that checked first. If you join a martial arts club or dojo they might require a physical exam by a doctor before letting you train. If you mean you're just tired and out of shape that's generally not a serious problem. Before I started doing martial arts I had not done exercise for many years.
No.15071
Kicking while retreating: good idea/bad idea?
No.15078
>>15071why would you kick while retreating
isn't the entire point to get away from the source and not make contact
No.15081
>>15078Front kicks are great while retreating, people run right into them all the time. They're fast and simple and don't sacrifice much footing. Other more complicated kicks on the other hand I've always had mixed feelings about sacrificing one of my footings while moving backwards. I've been doing a lot of hook kick practice in my routines lately though and I'm starting to wonder if a front hook kick while retreating might not be so bad after all.
No.15088
>>15081Okay, I'll work on my balance to be able to properly do front kicks.
No.15112
>>15071In grappling one of the worst things you can do is lift a leg and place all your weight on the other one. There's so many entries and throws you can do on someone raising their leg and going backwards.
No.15135
>>15131i don't think you got what i said. i'm just saying grappling is all about balance. if you lift a leg, you've already given up 50% of your balance
No.15239
>>15238>Or is it just a stupid idea in general to kick things with your shinYes.
Equal and opposite reaction.
If you hit something hard enough to hurt them, you are hitting yourself with the same amount of force.. Striking with a bone like the shin means that all the force is going to be concentrated at a small point of impact and there is not much give to absorb it (unlike in your hand or foot for instance). The move is dumb as fuck. It is very likely to break your leg eventually, especially if you do it repeatedly because you might unknowingly develop small fractures that weaken the bone further.
No.15240
>>15238>>15238>Is this common in actual Muay Thai matches too?Not really.
1) the square stance has a light lead leg
2) you don't want to kick the knee anyways, because all they have to do is check it to break your leg lol
No.15241
>>15240>1) the square stance has a light lead leg Really confused what you mean by this.
Attacking the knee is perfectly fine when you aim with your foot.
No.15242
Most of these guys appear to be aiming for the lower leg and not the knee anyway. Who are the idiots giving them training advice?
No.15244
>>15243It's called a square stance because your shoulders are square on with the opponent.
In muay thai, there is less boxing and more clinching and kicking, making a square stance marginally more illusive and headed to hit than a "knife" style.
No.15246
>>15244Really note seeing the "square" aspect of it, we simply call that a relaxed fighting stance or "L" stance when most of the weight is on the back leg in my karate school. We usually discourage propping up the front leg like Muay Thai fighters because it gives away too much information about where your balance is.
No.15302
What's with Youtubers/celebrity boxing fights lately? I think they're ruining the sport.
No.15335
KYA
No.16197
I understand why weight matters in a fight and skill might triumph everything
But how does height factor in as an advantage to fights? I'm curious
Is it better if you are taller or shorter than your opponent? And why?
No.16198
>>15238OH VMY FUCKING GO WHWAHT THE FUCK MAN
HOW THE FUCK DOES THAT HAPPEN, IS IT PERMANENT DAMAGE?
No.16200
>>16197Depends on the kind of fight. Height can be an advantage in terms of reach with punches and kicks, but it can be a disadvantage with grappling because it's easier for a shorter opponent to get under the taller person's center of mass and throw them.
No.16201
>>16198>kicking>everJUST.
If I wanted to be an MMA champion, I would just spend 95% of my training in a good boxing gym, one that has boxing champs, former champs and highly touted prospects as available sparring partners. The other 5% I would spend it on wrestling gym, specifically takedown defense. And I would never, EVER throw kicks.
No.16202
>>16198It happens when you try to strike things with long bones like a dumbass who has internalized too much Muay Thai movie logic. Ever try to hit something with the middle of your forearms instead of your hands? No, you know instinctively that you'll probably hurt yourself. Same logic applies to trying to kick things with your shins.
No.16203
>>16197It really depends on the fighters.
For instance, if a short fighter is fighting a tall fighter in the same weight class, the shorter fighter's center of mass is lower.
This makes it easier for the shorter fighter to go for take downs. It also means he can shift around (and under punches) faster, making it harder to keep him in your vision.
However, the taller fighter has an advantage in striking. With gravity on his side, his punches hurt a lot more. Plus, he doesn't need to kick as high.
No.16204
>>16202this
It's best to think of your arms and legs as meaty whips. The tip is the most dangerous part :^)
>vidrel No.16206
>>16201If you're a brilliant boxer they will just take it to the ground, inevitably. No smart fighter is going to trade punches with someone they could quickly submit on the ground.
No.16212
>>16202>Ever try to hit something with the middle of your forearms instead of your hands?D-does trying to defend incoming attacks with middle of the forearm count as hitting
I watched too much batman and forget that I don't have forearm claws.
No.16219
>>16212It's a little different with defending. Obviously a broken arm is a better outcome than something lethal. But understand that all "blocks" in martial arts are never intended to be blocks despite the confusing English parlance, they are really parries or deflections. An overhead block for instance should always be done at an angle to guide and dissipate an incoming blow down your arm and away. Taking the full force of something on a concentrated point no matter what part of your body is going to give you a bad time.
No.16221
>>16202Only someone completely ignorant of muay thai, but even moreso of human leg anatomy, could write something like this.
No.16222
>>16221Interesting, got an argument?
No.16223
>>16206hence why I said I'd train takedown defense also (Greco Roman)
No.16234
>>16202>>162221. The shin bone is big and thus relatively less likely to break.
2. The hand is fragile as fuck when you don't wrap and cushion it up.
3. If you had any idea about kickboxing or MMA you'd know that a roundhouse kick (with the shin) is among the most powerful and successful kicks in combat sports and that a fucking full-force foot-kick to a knee or a forehead without savate shoes (
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Savate ) would be exponentially more likely to break a multitude of bones within the foot, rather than the sole thick-as-fuck shin bone (aka tibia, picrel).
>>16204sadly primate evolution didn't adapt horns on our hands and feet :(
No.16236
>>16234Ah, so you're smartass who knows nothing about actual human physiology, physics, or mechanics parroting cultish trivia like they know shit.
1. Long bones are designed for tensile strength and longitudinal compressive strength, not transverse stress. When you hit with the middle of your tibia at its thinnest and weakest section you are putting stress on it from
both sides through the momentum above it behind your foreleg and the momentum associated with your ankle and foot.
2. I don't have a clue why you're bringing hands up in your argument but obviously self-defense oriented martial arts emphasize avoiding bone-on-bone strikes for good reason.
3. If you had any idea about basic physics and mechanics you'd realize that striking with your foot presents mechanical leverage advantage over hitting with your shin and is always going to have the potential for more power. Stupid thing to bring up that suggests you're obsessed with macho power fantasies and haven't really thought through your position. As far as breaking bones in feet are concerned, this is the reasoning behind many styles' adoption of striking with the balls of feet for round kicks rather than the instep because it retains the whip-like power generation while allowing all the other bones in the foot to absorb force in line with the impact.
4. There are in fact theories that the human knuckles and fists did evolve from selection for hitting other humans. Our fists are very club-like compared to other primates and it isn't a necessary shape for finger dexterity.
>>16235Nice straw man to cope with the insecurity behind your own crappy arguments.
No.16237
>>16236weird hill to die on
what kind of bullshido do you practice?
No.16238
>>16237Got any better arguments?
>video footage of people snapping their legs on four separate occasions in MMA from shin kicking>akshually guys, don't believe your lying eyes, if you think shin kicking is dangerous you just don't know enough about MMAWhat's the matter MMA cultist, I thought your sport was supposed to be a bastion of empiricism?
No.16239
>>16238Here's a quick history-lesson, ignoramus:
https://youtube.com/watch?v=EgYlQg0SFGMof a thai guy breaking the legs and foot of the western kickboxing (amalgamation of karate and TKD) champion of the time.
Also multiple people are replying to you.
Can someone give this guy a napkin?
No.16248
>>16239>>16241Still waiting on arguments. Vague appeals to authority (which you don't have) aren't going to cut it.
No.16256
>>16219Hmm
So there deflection is different from defending
Redirecting the force
No.16258
>>16248>t. Several strong counter-arguments against your bullshido appeal to mysticism (did you expect the human body to be infallible? Have you sparred a day in your life?) have been levied
and you know it. Stop acting up, it's very cringe.
No.16261
>>16258What has been presented are little more than anecdotes as if they prove something general (
what they prove hasn't been stated), some sort of vague assertion about people just not doing it right (at least I
think that's what you're trying to do by posting these videos, the point you're attempting to make with them isn't very clear), and lazy attempts to smear the credibility of your opponent (fun fact: I have multiple degrees in zoology and it's almost guaranteed I know more about physiology than you) or straw men (I haven't even said a thing about what martial arts I practice). You have completely failed to address the original point which is whether hitting things with the shin is a good idea at all. Start over and this time
form an argument.
No.16268
>>16236(Not the anon you're replying to.)
Your arguments do sound logical. Long bones don't sound ideal for blocking kicks, and sure some have got broken that way.
But at the same time, I remember myself blocking the kick of a savateuse that way in a savate class. by accident, shin blocks are illegal in savate. I'd been cross training in Muay Thai. It did work. Unfortunately she got hurt by the block. I wasn't meaning to do it, the cross training just came out.
(Another unrelated observation. First day beginners often do well in savate sparring! They tend to do unchambered kicks like football kicks which can be fast. They're like the old "defense dans la rue" system designed for street self defence.)
I guess a lot is going to depend of the angle of your blocking shin (if it's angled, knee forward maybe that's what dissipates the force of the incoming strike along the long bones of the blockers shin?), relative bone density, etc?
syndicalismSyndicalism No.16269
>>16236Apologies. I just realised you're discussing shin strikes, not shin blocks.
For self defence, I'm with you savateurs/savateuses on this. For self defence, great if you wear steel toecap footwear for work and remember to keep kicks lowish (ribs /solar plexus at highest, unless an expert) or set them up with something else.
syndicalismSyndicalism No.16270
ngl bros
i thought shin was just another name for the groins
No.16271
>>16270Haha no, anon.
The pubic bones are an entirely different set of bones. (Further up in the body from the shin bones.)
/hobby/! come for the recreation chat, stay for the anatomy and physiology notes
syndicalismSyndicalism No.16275
>>16271who needs school when internet strangers exist!??!?
No.18419
>>18417Oh dear god it's worse than I thought:
>In addition, the Karate kumite at the 2020 Olympics will be non-contact. “Competitors send tsuki, or punches, and keri, or kicks, with explosive force at the prescribed regions of their opponent’s body. However, a tsuki or keri never actually hits the opponent because competitors perform every tsuki and keri with absolute control, enabling them to stop the motion suddenly only millimetres before coming into contact with their opponent”.The Japanese government seems determined to embarrass one of their most iconic athletic pastimes. People are going to have a field day ridiculing this.
No.18443
>>18419The funniest part about this is that unless you fucking put on a gas mask and full body suit sweat and other water vapor is still going to go all over the competitors and nearby areas. Honestly I hope someone hides a speaker and plays sneezes and coughs at times just to make these morons twitch.
No.18444
>>18419Sounds like a load of horseshit to me. Judo is full contact this year (is there any other kind?), so I'm guessing there's a big presence of kata schools in Japan invested in promoting their ""style"" of tap dancing
No.18445
>>12505This post is so old but man does it annoy me that I missed it, mostly because the stupidity of it is downright harmful
>you were trying to argue that they were and now in your response you’re implying front kicks Not what was being said at all.
>struggle with kickboxersNo, I said they were tough opponents because it's a similar fighting style, so it comes down to who is more skilled, rather than what style is better
>it’s better for conditioning than trainingThis is a nigh-redundant claim
>Muay Thai technique is better They're almost the same thing you dipshit
>tkd just makes certain crucial mistakes more likely to happenLike what? None of these "crucial mistakes" are any less likely in most Martial arts, unless those martial arts are focused on either fist-fighting or grappling with reduced leg-work.
>Why train against overextensionYou make this sound like it's some massive problem, when you fix this with literally a couple days of practicing kicks and being corrected by a teacher, it's not that fucking hard unless you're either really fucking old or very inattentive.
>just do some low kicks Because that doesn't do jack shit against any opponent who isn't a total scrub, because they either don't hit hard enough or get dodged. I've lost count how many times people tried this shit with me and either I swept their feet, dodged and knocked them down or just took the hit and hit them with a haymaker.
>I still wouldn’t risk it in a street fight No shit sherlock, that's why you train t do high and low kicks, and punches and elbows and knees and grappling, all of which TKD does. You're talking like TKD is only high-kicks. If you can't do high kicks train more and make do with other abilities, FFS, it's not that complex.
>that’s bad techniqueNo it isn't, this is probably the most harmful statement. When you're doing a turning side kick, you're already spinning around when you look bac, because if you're "spotting" you're letting the opponent know "I'm spinning back" ahead of time. And yes it's a risk, because that's the point, a stronger technique comes with risks that rely on your skill and ability, which is the entire point of training.
>the tkd stance is poor Fucking how LOL
>bouncing 1) bouncing is done by numerous martial arts and it's usually done to keep the opponent guessing, it's not done always nor is it the default of TKD
2) It only wastes energy if you're a dumbass who doesn't use the rebound to keep pushing
3) Fights, especially street fights, do not last long, so energy conservation is retarded unless you somehow convinced a street gang to have each member 1v1 you in a straight fight.
No.18446
>>12506>ou tighten them so hard they become painful and cut off your circulation1) You're not supposed to use ankle weights that are too heavy
2) Use good quality weights that stay on snugly but comfortably, not all of them are the same
3) Pain is a part of martial arts and working through minor pains is also necessary.
No.18448
>>18446>2) Use good quality weights that stay on snugly but comfortably, not all of them are the same I'd be delighted if you could direct me to some of these. Maybe my weights are just shit for kicking.
>just cut off your circulation bro no pain no gainThis is cringe though. Blood vessels in your ankles aren't analogous to knuckle conditioning.
No.18449
>>18448Oh I'm not talking about Circulation pain, that shit is definitely a no-no in any type of weight training, what I mean is the pain you might get from the weights themselves.
>direct to good weights Personally I use 1-3kg All Pro ankle weights with Contour Foam. put them on over some socks (or your pants) and any pains or problems like tight grips is minimized. I do not recommend exceeding 5-7 pound ankle weights for anything except walking and slow-lift kicks (basically training how long your can keep your leg up in a kick rather than how fast and hard you can kick).
Also as an alternative go to the Ocean or a pool or lake and wade out to your chest height and just do line drills for kicks as fast and hard as you can, it's more subtle but does increase your speed and strength for kicks.
No.18897
>>18444The International Judo Federation is killing judo too. These fools banned leg grabbing in 2010, and have severely restricted unorthodox grips like double lapel and bear hugging. They want judo to look "different" from wrestling or sambo, but they're just killing the sport + reducing its effectiveness against other styles. Jigoro would be rolling in his grave.
No.18898
>>18897What's their explanation for those restrictions? Do leg grabs result in more injuries or something?
No.18905
>>18897>leg grabbing>double lapel>bearhug <banned/restrictedThat's the most retarded shit to restrict, it's a standard practise of Jiujitsu and sambo and Russian Judo, heck even Tae Kwon Do practices this in grappling what kind of ban-happy crap is this?
>>18898The International Judo Federation made no official statement with regards to the thought process which went into the ban in 2010 and onward. By the way, in 2013 it became completely illegal to even touch your opponent's legs or trousers during a standing grapple. Like in the 80s Foot Sweeps and Head Dives were banned in sports competitions for obvious reasons (risky and injurous), but this is stupid.
The main theories are the following
1 - Muh russkies use leg grabs too much so it's abusing the rules
2 - The (International) Olympic Committee was going to ban Judo for being too much like wrestling
3 - leg grabs made it too easy to counterattack
The IJF was fearful that Judo was resembling Wrestling too much, by restricting leg attacks it meant that scoring points had to be more elegant and airborne making for a better spectator experience. A good article on the topic is
https://craftofcombat.com/why-are-leg-grabs-banned-in-judo/ No.18911
I'm gonna beat the shit out of all of you anons. You can't stop me
No.19369
>>6494Speaking of Tyson, anyone remember Mike Tyson Mysteries?
No.19702
>>19700If it is JJ its the og japanese style
No.19708
>>19700The guy picking the fight is clearly drunk or high as fuck, he's not moving like a sober person does.
No.19713
>>19708Probably, the guy tried to bite his ear off
No.19716
>>19709Me too. I'm returning soon, been watching lots of videos and gripping the judogi to restore the calluses
No.20260
>>20259>30 lbs differenceImpressive
No.20457
>>20456Because of this fight, all SEA martial arts get bunched under the Muay
Thai moniker
No.20460
>>20459>r/fightporn>posts fight video that happens to be from China>post is flooded with anti-China shillsIt's like I'm on 4shit, full of /pol/yps
No.20461
>>20459>>20460Holy shit you two need to get a grip. It's national jokes not fucking /pol/.
No.20462
>>20461I doubt those people don't make that sort of joke out of an anti-China sentiment. It's a reflection of all the modern anti-communist propaganda about China, not merely "national jokes", that's why it's so annoying. 12 years ago, the jokes would've been different.
No.20463
>>18445You’re lucky I came back in here and saw your claptrap posted and you only responded because you were seething at how right I am. Let me disabuse and abuse you again then though I barely even remember wtf was said and not going to read it.
> comes down to who is more skilled, rather than what style is better So that’s not saying much then, it always boils down to who is more well rounded. But “skilled” is a loaded word and involves style and other aspects of conditioning.
> This is a nigh-redundant claimNot a redundant claim, some martial arts styles are better for the physical fitness and conditioning then they are for preparation in street fights/competitive fighting etc.
>They're almost the same thing you dipshit Not surprised you’d say that. They are not even close.
>Like what? None of these "crucial mistakes" are any less likely in most Martial arts, unless those martial arts are focused on either fist-fighting or grappling with reduced leg-work. Ok that’s partly true, you can do dumb shit in any martial arts, but that’s the whole point I was making with Muay Thai over tkd, tkd grappling and fistwork is weak.
>You make this sound like it's some massive problem, when you fix this with literally a couple days of practicing kicks and being corrected by a teacher, it's not that fucking hard unless you're either really fucking old or very inattentive. That was just one problem of many I pointed out and no it can’t just be corrected with a teacher. Just look at any freaking olympic TKD match and you’ll see them fall down repeatedly on their ass doing overextended kicks because they can’t keep them under control and the opponent just dodges them. The higher and faster you kick the more momentum you’re pulling away from your center of gravity, you are literally being pulled by the weight of your legs which is 60% your bodyweight.
>Because that doesn't do jack shit against any opponent who isn't a total scrub, because they either don't hit hard enough or get dodged. I've lost count how many times people tried this shit with me and either I swept their feet, dodged and knocked them down or just took the hit and hit them with a haymaker. Just fucking lol. I was talking about practical application a proper low kick to your knee joint will leave you crippled and they are fast and easy enough to happen in a flash. And you know what’s really easy to sweep? A dumbass tkd high kick
>No shit sherlock, that's why you train t do high and low kicks, and punches and elbows and knees and grappling, all of which TKD does. You're talking like TKD is only high-kicks. If you can't do high kicks train more and make do with other abilities, FFS, it's not that complex. The original argument was about high kicks and its not about being able to do high kicks, its about their application. Like I said overemphasis on high kicks would lead to a higher chance on ending up on the ground and whatever grappling tkd has would not be enough to save you there.
>No it isn't, this is probably the most harmful statement. When you're doing a turning side kick, you're already spinning around when you look bac, because if you're "spotting" you're letting the opponent know "I'm spinning back" ahead of time. And yes it's a risk, because that's the point, a stronger technique comes with risks that rely on your skill and ability, which is the entire point of training. If you don’t spot your just flailing your limbs and hoping they connect which can work, but its the luck of the draw. Also you cannot physically do a spin kick without turning your head so it will happen regardless sorry bud. Even if you spin first your opponent still would not know if its a punch a kick a fake or what.
>Fucking how LOLLike every way, doesn’t protect vitals, high center of gravity etc.
>1) bouncing is done by numerous martial arts and it's usually done to keep the opponent guessing, it's not done always nor is it the default of TKDYour opponent is not going to be guessing anything from a fucking bounce. Its just dumb and pointless. Yeah shuffling the feet is good, but bouncing is just dumb and throws you off balance far easier.
> 2) It only wastes energy if you're a dumbass who doesn't use the rebound to keep pushing 3) Fights, especially street fights, do not last long, so energy conservation is retarded unless you somehow convinced a street gang to have each member 1v1 you in a straight fight.
Derr muh rebound, doesn’t matter still waste of energy. Yeah and the point is if they dont last long then you shouldn’t be adding more risk factors like bouncing around, throwing high kicks, spins etc, to the mix.
No.20465
>>20463Goddamn it's too late for this reddit-spaced shit. I'll reply in a couple days, I've got things to do.
No.20467
>>20463 >>20465Fuck it I'll do it now
>you only responded because you were seething at how right I am <more yappingImagine being this self-absorbed. I responded because you actually spread some outright harmful claims and fallacious arguments that any aspiring martial artist may take to heart and get roflstomped for their trouble.
>I'm not goin to read [wtf was said] <proceeds to reply based on wtf was said Ok lol
>that’s not saying much then, it always boils down to who is more well roundedSo you're not actually arguing my point, just being contrarian, you've "abused"/"disabused" nothing
>some martial arts styles are better for the physical fitness and conditioning Sure like Capoera, but not in the case of TKD, TKD is more rounded than Karate and Karate has held up in its abilities fairly decently. I'm also not talking about the rigid formalized TKD that you se on big TVs, that's not even close to actual TKD fighting because you're specifically discouraged to use hands in such matches. The same applies to Muay Thai in Japanese KD1 - they limit the movesets by taking points or outright banning certain moves. WTF TKD takes points for boxing or leg grabs meaning that 2/3 of the moveset is removed and that isn't enough against a grappling and boxing based fighter of a similar level, the same can be said of Muay Thai, if you remove grabbing you completely remove their main counter to kicks. The modern TKD competitive trains only to fight in WTF TKD competitions not against other style fighters.
>They are not even closeI took Kick-boxing and Muay Thai and the basic move sets are almost the same, the differences being in the variations of their use and sometimes stance, as seen in any MMA fight that has kick-boxers and Muay Thai. Obviously official Kick-Boxing matches have more limitations, but real fights do not have them. The same can be said of official Judo see
>>18905 That's also the reason
>>20456 exists - the kickboxer involved, though skilled was too rigid and set in fighting by the rules and so couldn't counter as he could have (and as later kickboxers did) but I digress. Point is you're splitting hairs.
>no it can’t just be corrected with a teacher<I fucked up because I'm inattentive so the martial art is bad, not me!Fuck off.
>look at any freaking olympic TKD match and you’ll see them fall down repeatedly on their ass>doing overextended kicks <Using Olympics as an example <using outliers of people doing high performance demonstrative kicks as examples Doing a tornado kick is not the same as a fucking actual combat application, it's an intentionally demonstrative flashy kick meant for events like the Olympics that specifically limit techniques, not actual combat nor is it a part of actual regular TKD training for anyone NOT on performance teams. That is the reason I say you're off, you base this off performances based in very confined rule-based settings; street fights do not have rules nor do regular full-contact matches.
Example:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VL5Cy33RWLo&ab_channel=mmablogger The fight has TKD at a loss because he only uses his legs and moreover does not use ANY basic techniques less complicated than a turning side kick. The reason being point scoring. The Muay Thai fighter's only limitation is to stand straight and not get down as they usually do, but that is a far lesser limitation.
>the opponent just dodges them Again it's an individual basis, it's a higher risk attack but the pay-off is a kick that can T.K.O an opponent.
Examples using full-contact sparring that has less limitations than Olympic shit:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KeQXmS24uyA&ab_channel=EVOLVE-ForRootKnowledgeofMartialArts
>tkd grappling and fistwork is weak. That's not true, Muay Thai specializes in those areas so obviously it'll be better there, but it's lacking in legs compared to TKD that is more rounded. TKD is not SPECIALIZED but basic grappling is at least on the level of or above classic wrestling. At 145 lbs I managed to beat and pin a wrestler that had double my mass in a wrestling match in High School just using my TKD grappling. TKD also has better fist-work than Karate and bases itself off of boxing in a lot of the techniques. Hell my teachers regularly had us do no-leg sparring focusing on boxing-type situations to acclimate us to this. A lot of formal competitions exclude this despite punches and blocks being a major part of the original TKD in the ROK Army.
>practical application a proper low kick to your knee joint will leave you crippled<implying TKD doesn't have such kicks in spades<implying that raising your leg (or kicking out) doesn't just let the kick go under you and let you crush their extended foot You need to cool off bud.
>what’s really easy to sweep? A dumbass tkd high kick >sweep a HIGH kick You're not understanding, I mean literally snapping out and knocking aside a leg going in low and using the opponent's momentum to lay them out. You cannot feasibly do the same to a properly executed high-kick there's a reason you duck or catch higher kicks in ANY martial art that isn't pretending or being held back by Olympic rules.
>happen in a flashGiven any decently skilled fighter that can happen to just about ANY kicking type, you're arguing martial arts like they're an action character and not a MARTIAL ART that is learned and done by individuals of varying skill and ability.
>overemphasis on high kicks would lead to a higher chance on ending up on the ground and whatever grappling tkd has would not be enough to save you there. My experiences say otherwise and it's not an overemphasis, you're exaggerating, again, based on competitives.
>If you don’t spot your just flailing your limbs No, no you are not. The point of the technique is to do it so fast that you only tear your eyes away at the last moment. Use it right and you strike a massive hit
>its the luck of the draw No, it's technique, apply it the situation and fight properly. Maybe think of it like a video-game, you don't just do super-moves randomly.
>you cannot physically do a spin kick without turning your head<t.didn't read carefully I literally stated YOU LOOK BACK AS YOU ENTER THE SPIN, it's not like you're looking into space before this. You look over your shoulder as you turn, not before, using the momentum to turn your head faster instead of spotting like an idiot. Spotting results in 1 thing, getting side-stepped by an attentive opponent. I've done that before against Black Belts a rank above me that thought they'd fool around against me.
>if you spin first your opponent still would not know if its a punch a kick a fakeSpinning backfist is also in the TKD repertoire, and no martial art spots before using it because that's retarded. A fake is rare because it's a big risk and requires sufficient skill. I've pulled it off before, faking and then doing a wheelkick and KOd an opponent, but this requires training and is situational, like any martial art.
>doesn’t protect vitals That's 90% of martial arts, you keep your dukes up, and legs bent and your mid-section gets blocked or dodged. The Olympic and competitive TKD goes for a glass cannon approach and doesn't do hands up because point-counting.
>high center of gravity and wider legs to compensate, not to mention that boxing and most non-grappling focused martial arts do this, individual skill still matters, see McGregor vs Mayweather - personal opinions about them as people aside, MacGregor's grappling kick-boxing style should have beaten boxing, but didn't.
>Your opponent is not going to be guessing anything from a fucking bounce They are, they'll be risking that the next "bounce" is going to be a kick or a fakeout
>throws you off balanceThe hell are you on about. If anything it lets you take a charge easier because you can move in the air and not get dragged. This is basics of Wrestling grappling, let alone any full martial art.
>shuffling I suggest you observe Ali in his hey-day and the reason his shuffling didn't let him down, he had speed and practice, that's the key.
>durr muh energy Unless you're doing Olympic fights or controlled sparring energy conservation is unnecessary in a real bout, dragging it out is uncertain as fuck. Yemelyanenko and numerous heavy MMA fighters rely on this but inevitably one of them ends up losing the stamina race.
>if they dont last long then you shouldn’t be adding more risk factors They don't last long because it's usually a fast beat down after one good and sometimes risky hit takes the cake. Most streetfights just do punches but high kicks can be a game-changer, even a basic high front kick is major because you can keep people out of arms reach and lay out punishment.
>inb4 leg grab There is a reason you retract legs after a kick, Every leg grab I have seen is because of bad kicking discipline - using a kick too close or not retracting the legs. Even then, if you're not a dumbass you can use that to your advantage.
So TL;DR: You have said nothing of note, just contrarianism or just "Noooo". So fuck off.
No.20617
>>20597Damn "The Emperor" is back and I missed it. I Gotta see this.
No.20618
>>20597lol, remember this shit?
my money is easily on Fedor
No.20619
>>20618Oh lmao, the fight already happened. And Fedor
won the same way No.20621
>>20618I remember this, the guy is a beast
>>20619>Fedor [spoiler] Yeah I expected nothing else TBH and thanks for the link Curt.
No.21338
Israel Adesanya is an utter Naruto-chad, the guy is chill as fuck.
>>>/anime/510 Naruto thread
No.21388
>>21374>TKD is more rounded than Karate It is. Like I repeat, competitive TKD has nothing to do with actual combat applications - it specifically penalizes use of the hands to block or punch - leading to a lack of balanced combat.
>it focuses on self-defense over competition Most TKD schools in the USA are led by Americans that learn it competitively and so teach the competitive style, but my teachers came from South Korea and had previously been military instructors that grew up and lived for the martial art, so I learned the original style made for actual military combat. Their schools are located in many countries including China.
Unfortunately in the past 10 years or so they've kinda gotten lenient, mostly because of Burger parents complaining about it being "too hard" and the need to upkeep the school as a business or go bankrupt.
>I've sparred with many taekwondo people and their competence with their hands ranges from adequate to nearly non-existent. Again most anglo schools teach hand to hand like shit, that doesn't mean they've got no technique.
>karate Trust me, Karate is extremely basic, TKD definitely exceeds it in that regard.
No.21391
>>21388>I learned the original style made for actual military combat.I'm with
>>21374 my experience with taekwondo is all flashy high kicks and no hands. Do you have any videos of this "military" taekwondo in action?
>Most TKD schools in the USA….You can't get mad at people for thinking taekwondo is what you yourself admit most taekwondo schools teach.
No.21392
>>21391 >Do you have any videos of this "military" taekwondo in action?If you have a time machine to the 90s, I experienced this myself, I learned and observed and read books on the matter and faced people that kicked my ass until I got better. The ROK doesn't do sparring matches that are filmed in public often, and most of those are on the Korean net and I have no method of locating them anymore.
My point about military and ORIGINAL TKD vs modern sport shit is corroborated by those that studied the same original art.
https://www.quora.com/Is-taekwondo-effective-in-a-street-fight/answers/5841655 >taekwondo is what you yourself admit most taekwondo schools teach <implying America is "Most TKD" FFS, this is like saying American Judo schools are the same as Japanese ones. Taekwondo that you can find locally probably isn’t even Taekwondo, but rather a strange hybrid of whatever karate and kickboxing your master learned. Even better, some places call themselves Taekwondo dojos but they teach stuff like Judo and BJJ. Consider finding someone who actually learnt it, and be wary of McDojos.
No.21401
>>21392>the National Martial Art of Korea, based on thousands of years of influenceYou really need to find a better source than Quora. Like many other popular martial arts, Taekwondo as it is practiced today is a product of the 20th century and isn't even 100 years old. It was developed as a derivative of karate after WWII.
No.21402
>>21401I'm not using it as a source, I'm demonstrating an example of an opinion by other TKD users. And yes it is very old, the MODEREN iteration of TKD is from post WW2 but if you read carefully, it is based on thousands of years of INFLUENCE, not that it is thousands of years old as a martial art.
No.21734
>>21733
The only knife advice I ever heard was to not use a knife as self defense because it can be very easily turned against you. Unless however, you are trained and skilled with a knife.
No.22000
>>18898Like the other anon said, 1. The IJF wants Judo to not look like the japanese version of wrestling or just wrestling with a uniform. I don't know if the olympic committee threatening to ban judo is even true, and I do think both sports should have their differences, but it's ridiculous to ban elements that have been part of judo for so long without even an official explanation. Overly restricting things is harmful and deprives the sport of competitive movements and styles that have been used in judo for generations. Many people think a hidden reason they do it is because they're scared that wrestlers, sambists, non-judo grapplers, etc. start dominating judo. Countries with strong wrestling traditions like Russia, Georgia, Uzbekistan, Mongolia (and most former soviet republics) have serious judo contenders but they are known for using unorthodox grips, styles and movements that don't "fit" into Judo (plus lots of leg grabs). So it seems as if the IJF is cancelling things that could threaten Japanese hegemony of judo.
2. They want judo to be more offensive to make it more popular and more entertaining to spectators. Problem is Judo is not a spectator sport. It's boring to most people, the average joe doesn't know grip fighting or cares for it. People want to see throws not 3 minutes of gripping and clinching, so the IJF is trying to simplify judo as much as possible. However, Grip fighting is an essential part of judo and not really something you can cut down through new rules and penalties.
Pics are the current IJF rules. Any unorthodox grip is allowed only if immediately followed by an attack (up to 5 seconds iirc). Otherwise you get penalized.
No.22110
Guyss I have a question.
So I was training to be a stuntman for like 10 years now. I built up all my MA/athletic skills to a decent level. But I dont want to work as a stuntman wagecuck. It all seems like wasted effort and pointless now.
So what was the purpose of it all. How do I put my skills to use (bonus points for some commie purpose). Do I just make reels on youtube showcasing skills? It seems so dumb. Maybe indie MA type movies with a commie message?
No.22113
>>19700>Slams him>Lets him go>immediately tries to start shit againThat's why he should've choked him out as well.
No.22165
>>22110Wait, why did you train for 10 years if you didn't want to be a stuntman?
No.22265
>>22165I got passion for it too. But I only wanted to be a stuntman becuz thats like the only avenue for the skills i can think of. Im content just dying like a shaolin monk or whatever, but Id like to apply the skills somehow for some good purpose like communism or something
No.22989
>>22113Grounded fighting is a potentially disastrous idea on the street (you are susceptible to getting kicked in the head by a potential friend of his that just got back from the bathroom)
I think the way he fought in the clip was the way to go, the other guy took some serious impacts and I'm sure he wasn't as much of a threat / as energetic at the end of the video.
No.23885
>>22987>Whats his problem?Low IQ and a normie, same as 99% of the people in the world.
>>22989So what do you seggust if not to go to the ground? Boxing? Muay Thai?
No.23893
>>23885>So what do you seggust if not to go to the ground? Boxing? Muay Thai?Instead of focusing on styles I would recommend to train specific (counter-) techniques. It's not like ground fighting skills are useful, they actually are, but on the streets you want to survive without getting injured.
Here is one counter to a dive from Karate/ Wing Chun and here is another one from Taijiquan (
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a_-NOTh0wZI).
No.23895
>>23893>Instead of focusing on styles I would recommend to train specific (counter-) techniques. I don't understand what that means LOL. I go to a BJJ class, so the only "style" I learn is BJJ.
>on the streets you want to survive wihtout getting injuredI mean no offense, but have you been in many street fight?
No.23898
>>23897The times I've been beaten the worst were when I ran and then got chased and taken down and beaten bellied out on the ground
No.23899
>>23898Run faster and longer
No.23901
>>23895>I don't understand what that means LOL. I go to a BJJ class, so the only "style" I learn is BJJ.What I mean is that one should train for specific situations that you may encounter. I am sure your BJJ class teaches techniques against dives and similar things. For example, the most probable attack you encounter is a punch followed by a haymaker. So you find a defense against that and train it. Your BJJ class has probably techniques against punches too. If you think that I implied that ground fighting is useless then you are misunderstanding me.
>I mean no offense, but have you been in many street fight?No, I luckily have experience only one threatening situation in my life and that was years ago.
No.23907
The only reason MMA fighters waste so much time with striking is that they have to spend a lot of time kickboxing to get their paycheck.
CMV
No.23908
>>23906Do you even run bro?
No.23936
>>22991>>23893based
in australia
No.23937
>>22000based Mongols making the ICO seethe
No.23955
Thoughts on ranking systems? I am seriously considering throwing them out altogether when I finally start my own club to teach karate.
No.23956
>>23955I think arbitrary reasons to buy a new color belt is just dumb. Let the dirt from training be your rank, the longer your train the dirtier your gi and belt. Just like when monke used to train.
No.23959
>>23955Ranking for novices can be good in that it leads to a sort of external validation and "proof" of their skill. A sort of self-actualisation ladder.
From "intermediate" up, they're pretty useless imo
No.23980
Has anyone got any opinions on this? His argument seems pretty crap to me.
>palm heels won't fit through their guard >if you damage your fists punching your opponent's head it'll be worth it if they get damaged more>it's an awkward angle to hit with palm heelsIf you're trying to punch through their guard it's going to be difficult anyway, if you use a bare knuckle guard e.g. Bec Rawlings
https://youtu.be/tIRpVqrHbmsI'd rather inadvertently hit a bony part like the elbow of someone's guard with my palm heel than my knuckles.
He might have a point if it was getting in one fight and maybe putting up with some damage from it. But It's long term training. It might be ok if you use tight wraps and bag gloves all the time, but if you want to train as much as you can how you're going to fight and not use wraps or gloves then what tool you hit with is going to make a big difference to whether you do your hands any long term damage I reckon.
I've found in pad training :
Punching pads "horizontal fist" (as in Western boxing) - hurts a lot after.
"vertical" fist (Wing Chun style) shorter reach but much on the hands
Palm heels - shortest range of all, but fine after.
And I reckon this is down to the various levels of knuckle and wrist joint alignment. If your hand is cocked back to hit with the heel of the palm, as long as you're able to keep the fingers out of the way, the wrist joint doesn't flex at all and the knuckles (obv) don't have to be kept tight/straight, because you're not hitting with them.
If you hit with a vertical fist you're hitting in an upward angle and you're wrist is taller in that position than in a horizontal position, so it's better than horizontal fist.
I didn't find it particularly hard to hit with the pad of the palm consistently (avoiding the fingers.) You just have to drop the elbow lower when striking.
Without gloves you just can't punch hard without damaging your hands. It was "Tank" Abbot who started using "MMA" gloves because he realised he could hit harder with them with less damage to himself.
Or maybe the solution is just to use wraps and bag gloves in training and punch? It might be different though punching someone in self defence without.
No.23984
>>23980I'm not a huge fan of palm strikes myself, but to start with he appears to be conflating sport fighting with self-defense. It's a typical but important mistake that leads to some of his erroneous conclusions about "street fighting", such as throwing weak punches to open up your opponent to the big ones with all your power behind them, and placing considerable emphasis on aiming hard, bony facial strikes. These are tactical considerations for a gentlemanly exchange with rules, but the point of self-defense isn't to win a street fight and prove your superior masculinity, the point is to
not get hurt. It's not generally a good idea to go into a self-defense situation expecting to stall for time looking for openings in your opponent because circumstances may not allow it. Likewise, there are better targets for your knuckles that don't involve potentially breaking them on your aggressor's hard bones. Finally, if you're really obsessed with knocking someone out in self-defense (this might be expecting too much), you absolutely can knock someone out without knuckle-on-chin contact–i.e., with a palm strike or even a slap–because what knocks people out isn't damage to the chin itself, it's the sudden jolt of momentum and twisting of the spinal cord from the skull being turned suddenly. Your palms are just as good at transferring the momentum of your arms as your knuckles.
One final point to bring it back to competitive fighting which he seems to be an expert in: historically, bare-knuckle boxers actually did not throw the kind of power punches with force directed right into their knuckles that gloved boxers use today. This was done quite deliberately to protect their knuckles from hard bone on bone contact.
No.24050
>>23984>I'm not a huge fan of palm strikes myselfYeah they dont fucking work
No.24058
>>24050Yeah they do, hell they can be more applicable than punches in many situations.
No.24077
>>24075(me)
Coach here is advocating punching the solar plexus, where the ribs separate, but using an open hand strike to the head in self defence - precisely because of the risk of busting your hand. And it's not some dodgy kung fu guy saying it, he's a former Olympic boxer. Maybe it's a long hook is more difficult to get the fist positioning right than a straight punch?
No.24078
>>24075I have that book, it's pretty good.
No.24150
>>24053>>24058They are not effective in an MMA or street fight. Have you guys used them in any MMA fights or street fights desu?
No.24151
>>24150In a pro-MMA fight? No shit, those people are bruisers that train to take hits. In the street? Of course it can. You catch a fucker in the chin and that's a damn good jolt to the head and you don't wreck your knuckles.
>used themYeah, once, it's not like anyone here is stupid enough to try and pick a street fight and it's not that common an occurrence.
No.24205
>>24151>Yeah, once, it's not like anyone here is stupid enough to try and pick a street fight and it's not that common an occurrence.Exactly. And there's the "problem" that once you know positioning and making yourself a hard target it makes assaults less likely. I've only got ring experience in savate. My "go to" if threatened is to subtle get my right foot back to chasse frontal Mr aggressives torso (sternum if lucky - I've seen this stop ring fights). But it hasn't ever got that point of resdyness, they always have backed up. You need a technique that isn't going to get you in too much trouble if used, otherwise you'll hesitate to use it. Sternum shot is unlikely to kill someone like the boxing coach says.
No.24206
>>24205 (me)
it's not guaranteed though, just a plan. I've seen a kickboxer try to front kick a homeless guy he got into an argument with late night outside McDonald's. He was too far out, homeless guy saw it coming, dodged, rushed the eater, grappled him down, like a v cruder and poss unintentional version of pic related sambo back trip
No.24209
>>24206>I've seen a kickboxer try to front kick a homeless guy he got into an argument with late night outside McDonald's. He was too far out, homeless guy saw it coming, dodged, rushed the eaterThis kickboxer sounds like such a piece of shit, goddamn. He was casually snacking on a hamburger while attempting a teep at a homeless guy?
No.24211
>>24209Ha no, he wasn't eating at the time. I'm just assuming he was a Mcdonalds diner,bssed on the location, London Victoria. It was probably just him being and arsehole and saying get a job when asked for change, or being thrown chips at, and then it escalated or something like that. Things often get a bit fraught there Friday and Saturday nights. I'm often in that area for work. In comparison, Kings Road McDonald's (site of the old "Chelsea Drugstore" of a rolling stones song) is an oasis of calm. Come the summer months a lot of the homeless guys head away down to the seaside. It looked more of a karate front kick than a muay Thai teep tbh,just from too far out and the guy probably wasn't used to kicking in jeans or with footwear.
No.24227
>>24226 (me)
This should be
>And from this he manages to conclude that it's better to punch with horizontal fist because with the =horizontal== fist you are supposed to punch with the first two knuckles. No.24231
>>24151>In the street? Of course it can. >it's not like anyone here is stupid enough to try and pick a street fight and it's not that common an occurrence.So you mean you haven't used them in a street fight?
No.24262
>>24227But vertical fists do that, like, it has 200 years of proof. You lose power, but gain fingers.
Also HEMA has some good grappling stuff, Marozzo's dagger against unarmed is just nice fast and simple:
https://wiktenauer.com/wiki/Achille_Marozzo#Fifth_Book_.28Dueling.2C_Unarmed_vs._Dagger.29 No.24271
>>24262>But vertical fists do that, like, it has 200 years of proof. You lose power, but gain fingers.I agree. I was summarising Armchair Violence's conclusion, which I think is bollocks.
It would seem obv, if you're punching with a vertical fist the knuckles are stacked on top of each other, so there's less chance of catching one of the small knuckles and breaking it. But if you punch bare knuckle with a horizontal fist your knuckles are in a line, it would be easier to catch one of the smaller knuckles if your target moves their head, or your accuracy is out.
<Also HEMA has some good grappling stuff, Marozzo's dagger against unarmed is just nice fast and simple:Thanks for the tip! I'll check it out, sounds interesting.
No.24476
why doesn't china ever promote in Sanshou compared to traditional Chinese martial arts
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sanda_(sport)#Military_Variationit has like the 10-15% of the few useful moves in wushu and shaolin and the rest is just copy pasted western kick boxing and some Judo and northern wrestling styles, but they can still claim it's a "authentic" Chinese martial art, instead of promoting basically glorified dances that will get people beat up or killed
No.24477
traditional martial arts bring in big money to china, especially through the movie industry. they can't ditch traditional martial arts even if they're fake because they'd be losing money. another reason china is capitalist.
No.24478
>>24477but what about pride though, no one but a handful of delusional weebs and Chinese nationalists actually think kung fu can beat modern martial arts and fighting styles, the illusion of "mystical eaastern arts" has been broken in the west and even the middle east due to the popularity of mma, you end looking ridiculous more then anything
No.24479
>>24478Casual audiences, boomers, etc. don't get the difference as much as you think
No.24480
>>24479yeah but there's a difference between Chinese martial arts in films compared to IRL, I love martial arts and so does my dad but we both know their fake and acrobatics to an extent
No.24483
Sport combat isn't any more "realistic" than glorified dances. The sooner you realize this, the sooner you'll be able to appreciate what all the variety of martial arts have to offer.
Also we have a martial arts thread, use the catalog faggot:
>>5237 No.24484
>>24483I posted this on siberia originally before it got moved to /hobby/
No.24486
>>24271They do not work in combat sports or a "real fight" therefor they do not work.
No.24489
>>24477>>24476Ulitanmetly its politics and profit, when people claim "the ebil Chinese government is suppressing mma" what they really should be referring too is the chinese wu shu association, which has a substantial amount of political influence. They are holding chinese fighters back. They are more interested in making movies and dancing rather than real fighting
remember Xu Xiaodong who was challenging traditional chinese masters, his whole career started cause of a dispute regarding funding, sanda clubs were angry they were getting much less funding and support from the wu shu association than people who practice forms that's what eventually lead to the fight with the tai chi master
The only reason he calls himself mma rather than sanda is to protect the sanda community from political and social backlash from regressives. His views are shared by the sanda community, its just that most fighters are poor and can’t speak up.
No.24491
>>24488didn't they see the video of that MMA guy beating the shit out of the old kung fu master
No.24492
>>24491Sorry this has already been mentioned plenty lol
No.24591
>>24488Kung Fu fans are stuck in the 19th century when the whole modernization vs tradition dialectic was happening. Jigoro Kano for example founded judo because he wanted to modernize jiu jitsu and make it an effective sport and combat system by removing the useless parts, and he came under attack by the martial arts conservatives who rejected change. Sambo was also a modernization of martial arts in soviet countries that took the best parts of many styles and removed the ineffective ones. They need to accept the truth and move on.
No.24600
>>24591>>24488>>24520so occasionally you'll see rightists online claim the Chinese government is suppressing MMA and actual effective marital arts in favor of tradition chinese martial arts, and thing is their only partially right, its actually a governing body that's semi-responsible for the current state of Chinese marital arts, the Chinese wushu association(CWA) is a governing body established to "preserve" Chinese marital arts as a form of cultural heritage and despite its name, its actually in control of promotion all martial arts in China, including MMA and Sanda, it was during the reform era where a lot of pseudo-mysticism became popular that there was a shift started happening, from preserving martial arts as a cultural heritage to actually promoting martial arts mysticism to basically scam people
https://blackbeltmag.com/chinese-wushuits literally telling their practitioners to not have public fights, cause they know they will lose
No.24783
>>24591conservatives are the losers in every medium
so did the guy do it? strip kung fu back to it's basic essentials and re-invent it?
No.24897
>>24591>make it an effective sport and combat system by removing the useless parts>not designed to excel in a one-on-one match with rules = Ineffective! Useless!If China is still stuck in this moronic dichotomous mindset like the West was for a while then that's really sad. Just because there's a lot of unempirical woo like chi in certain Chinese martial arts does not mean that the only useful applications are for sport combat.
No.24901
>>24897I think TACM should be preserved the same way Museum artifacts should be preserved, they aren't all effective for combat or even fitness
like I'm pretty sure a guy trained in Boxing or Muay Thai will have an easier time dealing with a fight then some guy who does wu shu or wing chun
No.24903
>>24901>a fightI assume you mean a self-defense scenario. That's a deceptive comparison first off because boxers and Muay Thai fighters are athletes who undergo rigorous conditioning. Of course a well-conditioned athlete is going to have an easier time defending themselves against a random assailant.
>wu shuWu Shu is basically just acrobatics so this is a given.
>wing chunWing chun has some very effective sensitivity drills that a lot of other martial arts could benefit from. In fact it's rather sad how few other martial arts utilize similar looping context drills, the only that come to mind are Philippino martial arts like up here
>>21424. Boxers are extremely overspecialized and I think a Wing Chun practitioner at the same level of fitness is in a better position to defend themselves in a broader range of scenarios. Muay Thai is a more contentious comparison.
No.24904
>>24600how tf did these guys survive the cultural revolution
No.24908
>>24904They quite literally didn't, they only were allowed back to their temples and centers during the early reform period, quite a lot of knowledge was lost becausae of this
No.24928
>>24591>>24591>>24600This is reminding me of Motobu Choki, another dude who tried and failed at removing the BS mystical stuff and creating a pure practical fighting style, he had beaten every big name karate master in public matches during his life(including the founder of Shotakan) and yet his school never had more then a few students at a time, the reason is cause he didn't teach "karate" as we think of it today
he taught his students just the basics of punches and kicks of karate and just made them spar with each in full contact matches, he even had them wrestle, it was just full contact sparring, conditioning exercise and lifting weights, his philosophy was do whatever move works in a fight, almost like an early form of Bruce Lee's Jeet Kudo do, he had a lot of detractors who tried to discredit him cause he publicly kicked their asses, most common was that he was an uneducated, illiterate, country bumpkin who only knew street fighting, which was very far from reality, cause he came from an aristocratic Okinawan family and had been taught traditional forms of karate by various masters, he just had a thick Okinawan accent which made it hard to communicate with others, overall his style is decribed as similar to an early style of Kudo karate
No.24931
>>24928I'm having a bit of trouble finding a source on your claim about removing "the BS mystical stuff" and I find it a bit dubious considering Motobu challenged Funakoshi to a match because he felt the karate Funakoshi was teaching wasn't proper karate, and that he later returned to Okinawa to study and preserve traditional Okinawan weapons systems.
Also he more than aristocracy, he was literally Okinawan royalty. Growing up pampered and expecting others to suck up to him was probably the biggest factor in his inability to spread his style much outside Okinawa.
No.25036
>>24903>it's rather sad how few other martial arts utilize similar looping context drillsGTFO with your dancing "martial art"
Other martial arts don't use your loopy shit because it doesnt work
No.25056
>>25055>all traditional masters do wing chun>sport = military = self-defenseAh, so you're a special kind of retard. You should start from the beginning and read through this thread, we've had a good discussion in here about the function and purpose of different martial arts.
No.25057
any type of martial artist refusing to fight and spar regularly just ends up creating a style of interpretative dance
No.25058
>>25056what are you trying to say? any fighting style that isn't practical in a fight shouldn't be called a martial art
No.25059
>>25058samefag can you shoe me even one video of proof of a traditional kung fu master beating a boxer, kickboxer or full contact fighter
No.25180
>>24928>it was just full contact sparring, conditioning exercise and lifting weightsThat's a pretty bad program for any martial art, sport or not.
No.25192
What's the best way to get out that punching urge inside a small apartment
Should I get a punching bag or ball for the ceiling or the ground
No.25196
>>25192Just find a gym. Even if you find something that won't damage your walls or ceiling (like a free-standing bag weighted with water), you're going to end up bugging the shit out of your neighbors from all the noise.
No.25214
Embedding error.
>>25084damn dcma
Here's the official upload.
Financial guru fight at 2:34:00
Guy who went to north korea to get a haircut at 1:23:00
No.25232
>>25180better then any thing at the time and would actually teach someone to fight
No.25233
>>25214>went to north korea to get a haircut at is this a thing now?
No.25384
>>5237On 4chan a lot of people believe boxing + jiu-jitsu is the best martial art / martial art combination. Does leftypol agree?
No.25388
>>25384>On 4chan a lot of people believe boxing + jiu-jitsu is the best martial art / martial art combination. Does leftypol agree?That would be pretty good combination. But it depends who you're fighting. Against another martial artist it can be a scissors-paper-stone game. It also has to be something you enjoy training in. Unless you're a pro and doing it for a living if you don't like what you're training in you're not going to keep up with it. Work and life is going to get in the way. Your body type is going to come into it as well . I'm tall and thin so for me it's long range savate + close range standing grappling/wrestling, with some elbows thrown in. Jon Jones stuff, basically.
<It feels like a cliché to write about how well rounded a fighter is, but Jones’ two best areas—the extreme outside game and the clinch—cover a lot of bases. If you want to box him and you can get inside the long game, he’s going to clinch you. If you want to wrestle him, he’s going to keep you on the end of his kickshttps://www.fightprimer.com/articles/2019/7/4/ktk No.25389
>>25384I would say kickboxing and krav maga.
No.25473
>>25472the tattoo on the inside of ur mom's thigh
No.25487
>>25384Nah, people who make up those martial arts combination games are typically clueless and have never stepped onto a mat. If you want to know how good and effective a martial art truly is, go look up the most dominant styles in MMA and professional fighting, and what the champions practice, and you'll see they're always the same: Wrestling, boxing, BJJ, judo, kickboxing and few more like Sambo or TKD.
No.25490
>>25389krav maga is a scam by zionists
No.25493
>>25487Not that anon, but MMA is itself a combination? Or maybe more accurate to say it's a blend. But many of the pros do specialise in a one or two areas.
If it's for outside the cage/off the mat, you need some weapons defence as well. Otherwise you might get stabbed like pic- related. Or -"Lightning" Lee Murray was another one, though he did recover he wasn't the same after. Untrained scrotes use weapons for a reason.
https://youtu.be/CTwH-PS9ydMhttps://youtu.be/6aDi3KHkJjcAnd there's the problem of your attackers coming mob-handed.
<One of my younger brothers has just started law school in a medium sized city with a history of violence in the neighborhoods surrounding its university campus. A few weeks ago a classmate and his wife were surrounded by a group of seven attackers and viciously beaten while leaving a café near the campus. There was no particular economic, ideological or racial motivation for this crime. It was purely social, and one suspects territorial, in nature.
<I bring this event up only because I think that it bears on the question at hand. The victim of this crime was in some ways far from the average guy. He was young, healthy and a military veteran who had returned from combat service in the Middle East. He was familiar with many different levels of “reality based combat training.” And none of that mattered.
<Why should we expect it to? Getting ambushed by seven determined attackers is pretty much an impossible situation for an individual to recover from. I think that on some level we all know this. Yet many individuals join martial arts schools precisely because they fear such attacks.https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/chinesemartialstudies.com/2015/09/04/costly-signals-credible-threats-and-the-problem-of-reality-in-the-chinese-martial-arts/amp/?espv=1But probably best thing for that is some sort of Dog Brothers training i.e. with weapons.
But getting a sense of perspective as well. An accident is more likely to kill you than an attacker.
https://www.cdc.gov/injury/wisqars/animated-leading-causes.htmlOr cancer. Not much you can do about that.
Mortality gets us all in the end.
No.25496
>>25487Does Muay Thai come under that umbrella of dominant styles?
No.25502
>>25487Another clueless retard who thinks a competition in an enclosed space is the final word in martial arts. Of course you're going to find the sport-oriented disciplines that excel at sport-focused combat. That is not, however, the final word in human combat. Different martial arts have been developed for different goals and it's foolish to dismiss wide swaths of martial arts just because they don't share your fixation with sport. It requires the critical thinking skills of a child to think an MMA competition represents the sum totality of human combat scenarios.
No.25519
>>25496Muay Thai, in my opinion, is dominant, but not in the ways most people think.
It's not the leg kicks, which are present in every kicking discipline, it's the clinch work.
No.25524
>>25502The disciplines I mentioned are not just sports. Unarmed combat encompasses grappling and striking, and those disciplines have proven to be the best and most superior in their category. Which is why they came to dominate mixed martial arts in the first place. What MMA did was put all styles to the try in full contact and separated the real fighting from nonsensical techniques and martial arts that fail miserably when pressure tested.
So yes, as far as unarmed, one on one combat goes, MMA could be the final word. But if you're talking about gun defense or knife fights, no obviously not, it would be silly from me to think Mma magically gives you weapon skills.
No.25526
>>25525>I justt like it for it's methods of disarming someone with a knife or gun.Self defense propaganda fantasy made to sell self defense classes and also suicide. There's a reason no serious police force tries to disarm a man with a gun or a knife.
No.25533
>>25521mma biographer. he's come a long way imo
No.25534
>>25526I was trying to find a single vid of someone doing serious sparring between a shockknife vs unarmed. Can't find a single video. Everything is just 1/10th speed bullshit where the knife holder has to be a perfectly cooperative dance partner.
This is the closes I found in a cursory search. Even though they give a semiconvincing show at "sparring" look at this shit. This guy could easily kick this guy in the face so many times in this vid. But of course he doesn't because it's purpose is to sell a fantasy. Even though he grabs the knife arm immediately, he has to spend all his energy trying to control the guy's one arm with both hands while that dude has so many opportunities to strike him with his other limbs. Also this guy probably got crazed so many times which is enough to take his grazed arm out of commission and start him bleeding out.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DYGUoZyJs18Lol at the comments.
>of course this wouldn't work in real life!>It's still cool! No.25535
>>25534I mean think about it logically. Your only hope for surival is that the other guy can't even land a single near zero speed punch on your from their knife hand. How many fights have you seen where one opponent doesn't land even one strike? That's the level in skill difference you would need to take out a guy with a knife unarmed.
No.25536
>>25535>>25534This is a super common complaint amongst the hema community.
A rule of thumb is, for every action you take, your opponent can take an action at the same time. You don't get to freeze time to get two or three strikes while your opponent is standing still with a sword in his hand.
It's all bullshido meant to sell classes, and its dangerous.
For krav maga, I don't think many Israeli soldiers are getting into hand to hand fights lol.
No.25792
>>25490Since krav maga is a zionist fash martial arts. Which ones would be the most communist martial arts? Maybe some soviet self defense forms? Or dengist wushu or something lol.
No.25793
On a sidenote which books are the best for martial arts theory? Like wide concepts with a philosophical bent?
No.25795
>>25792Isn't the practical recommendation always something like MMA + boxing + kickboxing?
No.25851
>>5237A tip for scrambles in Jiu-Jitsu: its better to end up in top position of half guard with underhooks than side control without underhooks.
No.25882
I read OP as Marxist Arts.
No.25884
>>25882>Marxist Arts.Where would we even start?
I guess a scientific analysis, so the proverbial "High % Techniques".
I've come to think there are really only 36 total moves a person needs to practice to muscle memory and iterate on based on their physical stature and cultural/hobby background.
For example, I'd add a HEMA influence to my 36 techniques, but also I am short so I'd iterate and practice and research to test until I reached a sort of 80/20 ratio.
No.25885
>>25884>until I reached a sort of 80/20 ratioof probability of success.
No.25997
>>25490>>25525I don't understand why people are so surprised when military designed martial arts system often lack depth and quality.
these system were designed to quickly teach the basics of punching, grappling and bare bones hand-to-hand combat to 18 years olds who have never made a fist in their entire life, besides hand to hand combat isn't even a main concern in modern warfare, like it wasn't even a concern in evenMedieval warfare
from a 16th century Chinese Military text
>The last chapter of the Jixiao Xinshu, the Quanjing Jieyao Pian, covers the subject of unarmed combat. Qi Jiguang regarded unarmed fighting as being useless on the battlefield. However, he recognized its value as a form of basic training to strengthen his troops, improving their physical fitness and confidence. No.25998
>>25886>but did you get this from Patrick McCarthy? Well I'll be…
Never heard of him before, I just sort of deduced it from the number of ways a limb can move, the ranges one engages in (strike, grapple, out), and the "heights" and angles of attack (head, torse, legs, and front, side/angle, back), etc.
Kinda cool to be validated by convergent "evolution" of ideas, I'll have to check this dude out.
No.26000
>>25998And I just realised, the Chinese kung fu dude who focuses on it's practical use, this Patrick dude, and the savate dude are all:
a) Expats.
b) Based in Australia for decades.
wtf?
No.26002
>>25997The only military combat systems that also happen to be useful for unarmed combat (though not necessarily in a self-defense context) are those designed for unbalancing a heavily armored opponent, like jiujitsu. In jiujitsu's case, the original intention was to bring an opponent to the ground so they could then be easily killed with an edged weapon.
No.26008
>>26002Medival armoured combat was pretty much the same.
Get them on the ground
crawl on them
>no homostabe them in the visor or dick.
No.26627
>>26625Pretty good video from the man who rediscovered karate's secret grappling methods ××instead of just learning Japanese jiu-jitsu.**
He's basically right as far as it goes. But “self-defence" as he defines it isn't the whole picture.
Suppose you're in a bar and someone grabs your GF/BF? What are you going to do? Make for the exit? Or if you know some grappling, break their grip and apply a lock. Warning shot type of thing.
Or if someone's trying to bully someone you where you live? De-escalation won't work, because you haven't done anything to start it in the first place. You have to be able to call their bluff. Obviously, you want to do it in a way that isn't going to put you in legal jeopardy e.g. if they're trying to get in your face say don't come any closer or I'll take it as a threat.
No.26631
>>26627>Suppose you're in a bar and someone grabs your GF/BF? What are you going to do?Get a cheap pair of foldable pliers and always have it in your pocket. It's a generally useful item, so this is not a big sacrifice.
In case that situation you described happens, pinch the ear of the grabby ass-hat, if they don't let go or make a hostile move they'll loose an ear. These Bar-fight situations are low stakes social savagery, instigated by people that look for easy prey they can humiliate, they will not risk an ear.
>Or if someone's trying to bully someone you where you live? De-escalation won't work, because you haven't done anything to start it in the first place. You have to be able to call their bluff. Obviously, you want to do it in a way that isn't going to put you in legal jeopardy.Bullies usually won't stop unless they feel physical consequences. They tend to have wronged so many people that it's easy to find other people that will vouch for you.
No.26633
>>26627>instead of just learning Japanese jiu-jitsuThere's been extensive cross-pollination between the two from the beginning. Early Okinawan karate almost certainly borrowed ideas from Japanese juijiutsu during the Japanese occupation.
No.28423
>>26002>In jiujitsu's case, the original intention was to bring an opponent to the ground so they could then be easily killed with an edged weapon.Yep, in judo scoring a point represents the opponent's death.
No.28459
>>26440Always disliked this guy very much. Dirty cheater and certainly more than 1 of his fights were rigged in his favour. Too bad he never faced an angry Bas Rutten in his prime. Could've used some liver shots.
No.28573
is a thicker/bigger neck harder to choke? i mean if you need more than one hand to fully cover my neck then one hand, isn't that already better
i've been doing neck curls with 6 pound plates and it's grown but looks a bit too big, i want to know if there's any advantage physically
No.28574
>>28573I'm sure. You'll also be strengthening your veins probably which is the real thing that's going to get you in your neck, not your windpipe.
I dunno though, if someone has proceeded to choking you, you're probably fucked. You shouldn't get to that stage. I think the most vulnerable thing about the neck is getting your brain stem damaged through strikes. They outlaw "rabbit punches" in boxing because it's so OP(so obviously if you are seriously fighting someone you should rabbit punch them and be wary of getting rabbit punched yourself)
No.28575
>>28574I should post this story I read of this boxer who got rabbit punched into a paraplegic but it's one of the most depressing stories I even read no lie.
No.28576
>>28574>>28575Oh yeah and I didn't define rabbit punch.
>A rabbit punch is a blow to the back of the head or to the base of the skull.[1] It is considered especially dangerous because it can damage the cervical vertebrae and subsequently the spinal cord, which may lead to serious and irreparable spinal cord injury. A rabbit punch can also detach the victim's brain from the brain stem,[2] which can kill instantly.
>The punch's name is derived from the use of the technique by hunters to kill rabbits with a quick, sharp strike to the back of the head.[3] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rabbit_punch No.28583
>>28576So there's no amount of body building that can prevent that, I guess
No.28616
>>28583No. It will probably keep your neck from getting torqued as much probably. Yeah I think having a stronger neck will probably diminish the damage. But you asked about choking.
Choking someone from the front with your hands isn't a great way. You actually probably could get out of that depending. Out of a chokehold no. I know some martial arts stuff will sell you about how to get out of a chokehold but I think it's kind of impossible unless you're like ridiculous stronger than the person that put you in the chokehold, and then I'd question how you ended up in the chokehold in the first place. If someone is trying to choke you from the front with their hands you still have great leverage to strike them while both their hands are occupied. You could just gouge their eyes, kick them in the nuts, trip them, etc.
No.28617
>>28583>>28616But yeah your veins will get blocked regardless and you will lose consciousness from lack of blood flow to your brain. Like I said maybe it'd might make it harder/take longer but of course anyone can be choked out.
No.28623
>>28616>I know some martial arts stuff will sell you about how to get out of a chokehold but I think it's kind of impossibleThey do it by hitting pressure points or kneecapping
Good luck with the pressure points if the guys on a strong stimulant or a freak with high pain tolerance though
Knocking out the patella is always a good option in a real no holds life and death fight regardless if if you're in a chokehold anyway
No.28624
>>28623Crazy think I've been choked out in a chokehold and also in a frontal hands on neck lol.
Chokehold:
Me and my brother got in a fight. Pretty sure I was whipping his ass. Then he fooled me with some truce shit. Then as I was walking away he came up behind me and put me in the chokehold. I had to say uncle. I came at him later with the anime store dull katana lel. Then he called the cops on me and I went to jail. Lol. He dropped the charges though. Me and him are real cool for a longtime now.
Choked out by hands from the front:
I was with my friend who was kinda psychotic. I forgot what the confrontation was over. I was trying to be non-confrontational because I could sense he was getting angry. I dunno maybe I was doing passive aggressive shit. Anyways he flipped out and choked me out from the front while I was shotgun and he was in the driver's seat. Was also a real surprise. I also said uncle.
No.28625
>>28624The moment a choke is coming in chin down and shoulders up to cover the neck lad
No.28626
>>28625Chin should always be down to cover the neck fwiw
No.28627
>>28626>>28625Probably good advice but like I said I wasn't expecting the chokehold at all. I was walking away because I thought the fight was over.
No.28631
About the chokehold thing. Sure, train to get out of it, plan to get out of it lol. I wouldn't bank on it. If you got into a chokehold you fucked up IMO. Someone show me a video where someone got into a chokehold in a real fight and then broke out of it and won LMAO.
No.28727
>>28624what matters the most in a chokehold is to not let the opponent lock it with the other arm. as long as he is choking you with 1 arm you can escape/he cannot choke you.
No.28729
>>28622Telling people to kill is terrible advice. In most countries you'll just go to jail for manslaughter and ruin your own life in the process. Even if it was in self defense.
No.28748
Embedding error.
>>28729Exaggerating for dramatic effect. I don't endorse executions and curb stomping. I'm just saying you can't approach a fight like a slap fight. If you have to club someone over the head with something that could potentially kill them to incapacitate them, do it. Once they are knocked out or you can put them in a choke hold do that of course, but until that point.
KILL OR BE KILLEDBut you also missed the other part of my advice which is to walk away.
No.28749
>>28748>>28729Also mentioning legal stuff. You should be the one to call the cops. That's definitely going to work in your favor.
Fighting for ego victory is dumb. Many guys have won the fight and lost the war. You kick a guys ass and then he just comes back later with a weapon or he comes back later with more guys and jumps you.
No.28753
>>28748>>28749Revenge fantasy nonsense that likely stems from an inferiority complex.
No.28754
>>28753It's real life but you do you. I said fighting for ego victory is stupid. If it's not life or death don't fight.
No.28755
>>28754Or as a sport with rules and safety precautions. I also think all the popular fighting sports are pretty sus because they aren't actually safe. Something as safe as fencing is cool. Even wrestling can fuck you up pretty bad.
No.29403
>>25884>Where would we even start?Buy a gun. Or pick up a brick at the very least.
No.29404
>>29403>Buy a gun. Or pick up a brick at the very least.What's that move called?
>Dialectics. No.29676
>>28631>show me a video where someone got into a chokehold in a real fight In a real self defense situation i would never try to choke an opponent unless i'm sure that he doesn't carry a knife or sharp/pointy thing. If i'm choking he can slit my wrist and i'm dead within minutes.
No.30028
signed up for judo with my gf, what am I in for? (I haven't trained martial arts before)
No.30030
>>30028Lot of getting tossed around.
No.30215
>>30028You'll be learning 1. how to fall over and over again 2. the basic throws that are taught to every white belt, like ippon seoi nage and osoto gari 3. the basic ground holds, like kesa gatame
Forget about fighting for now, that doesn't happen until way later. Also your body will probably hurt from not being used to any of these things. It's normal, and always remember to not land with your head.
No.30216
>>30028Good thing you didn't do jiujitsu otherwise it would be sweaty 200lb dudes hugging and rolling around with your gf while you soyface across the room
No.30217
>>30216That also happens in judo, fam. Where do you think BJJ got it from?
No.30218
>>30028Hope you like getting strangled.
No.30644
>>30643Most martial arts is a kind of competitive dancing that is meant to simulate fighting while preventing injuries. A lot of these were invented in a time when many injuries were fatal and if your culture had a dance like that, physical aggression could be released with less damage.
So this is not a bug it's a feature.
No.31640
>>30643What exactly in this video can even be described as "effective"? And it's not like he is against people who are even remotely profficient in any kind of martial art or even just some sport like boxing.
No.31668
>>31640The fact he fought multiple attackers with seemingly little technique and combat training, if he had been the same size as his attackers but trained in marital arts, how do you think it would have went for him
No.31669
>>31668None of the "attackers" were even remotely competent nor did they seem to even seriously trying to hurt him. Looks more like children playin. Have you ever seen a real fight? The one where people actually trying to hurt each other?
> if he had been the same size as his attackers but trained in marital arts, how do you think it would have went for himAbsolutely the same i'd say since this probably wasn't an actual fight. Are you trolling or just stupid?
No.31673
>>31639Sounds like bullshit to me. How would one go about banning martial arts? People are always going to find ways of kicking the shit out of each other.
Forms or Kata are found in Japanese and Korean Martial arts too, and they're a training method. I expect they were a way of getting illiterate peasants to memorise basic movements without literary aids, although they could have doubled as drills for soldiers for the sake of discipline.
From the forms you kind of have to figure out the combat aspect for yourself, similar to how HEMA guys have to reconstruct fighting methods from old treatise and archaeological findings.
I should also point out that most of that is an uneducated guess, but idc because my competition is a YT comment
No.31676
>>31673There are modern examples of banning certain martial arts, for example capoeira was banned in Brazil during the early 20th century, kendo was banned in Japan for a few years after their surrender at the end end of the second world war. I'm sure there are more historical examples.
No.31677
>>31676Right, but they still exist, which means people must have been practicing in private or they wern't banned for long enough for it to have a serious impact. I'd imagine these bans were accompanied by restrictions on things like weapons and perhaps large gatherings of military-age men in general too, otherwise they wouldn't have been very effective.
On top of all this, there are only so many ways to throw a punch or a kick. What if you got busted for practicing some banned martial art and defended yourself by sayiing that "actually I was just making shit up" or "this isn't from Capoeira, it's a form of Wushu from Northern China"? Would the police let you off?
No.31687
>>31676>kendo was banned in Japan for a few years after their surrender at the end end of the second world warThe US occupation also banned judo
No.31691
>>31679Well the Chinese had enough 'practical' martial arts training that they used to hold competitions where they fought all comers
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lei_taiThis dates back to the Song dynasty at least, and is carried on today in the modern combat sport of Sanda. The MMA fighter Cung Le was a Sanda (or Sanshou) fighter, and he took it to the UFC with some success.
Pic rel is of some Chinese wrestling practitioners, and their sport is still practised today in China too.
What you're probably thinking of is Wushu, which is more of a dance derived from martial arts than a fighting style. That's the form with the fancy flowing movements. It's the form you're likely to see in Kung fu films.
No.31718
There's really no "best" martial arts. Lethwei, muay thai, sambo, kickboxing are all great. If you train hard and consistently in one of these styles and its not some dogmatic shit like kung fu then it will work. I did a bunch of tae kwon do as a kid and when i turned 14 i started at a gym with a bunch of kick boxing and muay thai guys and they all fucked me up. I stuck with it and now I can say I have a decent striking and grappling game
No.31719
>>31717Not really sure what the point of this reply is, since I never said that it was entirely Chinese or that the modern form was the same as the old forms. Just that there
was a history of people in China meeting up and beating the shit out of each other.
It's funny too, because the video you showed literally says that
>''there is a lot more Chinese martial arts influence to Sanda than a lot of non-lovers of Chinese Martial Arts are willing to give it credit for" and that they took both kicks
and wrestling (Shuai jiao, a sport in its own right which is still practiced today) from China. The video briefly mentions that the reason for the lack of sparring goes back to either the start of the Communist era or the Qing dynasty, and that's the primary reason they weren't "practical" anymore. Why this change took place, I'm not sure. I've read of at least one tournament held before in Repblican-era China (only on Wikipedia) where a load of people ended up dying in fights so it had to be called off.
It seems like what they were doing with Sanda was creating their own state-version of MMA for competitions years before it was concieved properly in the West, which is pretty cool.
No.31722
>>31719Sanda is the same as Sambo or even Army Combatives, kickboxing and some basic grappling, cause again that works
No.32008
>>31722What's the minimum combos and techniques?
No.32116
>>32100>so my question is why did Judo and Greco-Roman wrestling out of every other regional wrestling style in the planet, develop far more complete and technique grappling styles, to the point where every modern martial arts incorporates the two in some wayImperialism, world wars, colonisation, and The Olympics.
No.32767
>>32757>a MMA fighter wants to get on top of someone and use the good ol' ground-and-pound, a Karate guy in the same situation will do the sameAnd both loose their balls against an someone who experienced fighting in no holds barred situation. When you "get on top" of someone mma-style your crtoch is exposed in a way that you can't even properly defend it. Efen if i can't roperly strike it, i can grab it and twist and pull it in a way that you will forget your name, much less how to fight.
Both karate and mma are just some sports with almost no relation to actual fights. They are developed to fit the specific rules of the copetitions they are participating in. Of course doing them you develop some general skills and traits that are gonna be useful in any melee fight, like physical fitness, ability to endure pain, judging he distance, but you also get the baggage of "techniques" that are developed for very narrow conditions and that can be deadly. For example ground fight in mma style can be crippling or deadly on it's own on the street where the pavement is very hard, has a lot of sharp corners and shit like broken glass and sometimes metal rods busting through concrete. And that's in a simple one-on-one situation, when there is more that one guy aginst you, even if you are not alone by yourself, going to the ground is probably the worst thing you can do.
In short, anyone who argues which "style" of sport is better, doesn't know shit about actual fighting.
No.32768
>>32767first off friend, you are on imageboard no one here take your "I'm a badass boasts" seriously
second effective fighting styles come from competitions and sparring while all the hypothetical "muh deadly technique" are just that, pure hypotheticals
a trained kick-boxer, BJJ guy, MMA guy even a hardcore full contact karate guy will have a better chance then some dude whose willing to "the forbidden moves" also life isn't a fighting manga where guy will only use their exact style in the street they would do in a Gym
No.32774
>>32768From competitions and sparrings come the styles that are evolved to be maximally effective under the rules of those competitions, disregarding everything else. It isn't about "deadly styles" you stupid mf, it is about the fact that if you startmounting someone on the street, you are in no position to defend yourself when his fried walks up to you and kiks you in the head or take out knife and do something funny with your kidney. If you are standing on your own twos, then you can at least run away, but not if you are grappling. That's why we have regular news about ome champ being beaten by some hooligans and now needs a tube to breathe. Happened more than once where i live in. In fact i have a friend who did sambo and he crippled himself because he did same shit he usually does in competitions and sparrings but met with pavement instead of soft mat.
>pure hypotheticals I literally explained to you the specific weakness of the "mounting" position. You can go to your gym and try it out to see if i'm right.
>life isn't a fighting manga where guy will only use their exact style in the street they would do in a GymYeah and suddenly they are only slightly better than untrained person because instead of relying on reflexes, they have to think what to do. You can only effectively use moves that you have trained to the point where you don't need to think about them, otherwise your reaction time goes to shitter. That's like the whole point of training, otherwise you could've just read a book about some moves and instantly use them only bothering with physical training.
Have you actually sparred even or competed? Because even those from competitive sports understand that much. That's like fundamental shit about fighting.
No.32775
>>32768Also, you literally use pictures from some manga and then explaining to me that "life isn't manga". Kek.
No.32777
>>32775It was an image I had on my PC that I decided to use it to illustrate that Karate is better then most mumbo jumbo chi stuff but still worse then an actual comperative fighting style like Muay Thai, Kickboxing and MMA
>>32774>Have you actually sparred even or competed? Because even those from competitive sports understand that much. That's like fundamental shit about fighting.again I don't pretend to be a badass or whatever, I did some full contact Karate when I was a teenager(between 12-15) and joined a Boxing gym when I was older, I was never above mediocre or half way decent, but I know enough to know a fight is like, even when I was doing Karate I could still make a proper punch and hit, granted I live in Pakistan and people here are on the wimpy side, like there's no concept or recreation physical exercise or even school exercise, 90% of guys have never done a push up in their lives
No.32778
>>32777Well, if you use manga illustrations in your posts maybe don't say that other people think life is like a fighting manga. It looks like a projection.
Anyway, it's not about being badass. I lost more fights than i won and i run away from even more than that. But i survived and kept my health more or less intact in a 90s Russia. And i have seen many strong guys from competitive sports loose either or both because they have relied on the reflexes and assumptions they have acquired for those competitions. The simplest example would be boxer breaking his hand because he struck into hard part of the opponent's skull (or some other hard body part) and never learned how to actually strike with bare fists because he used gloves all the time. I know my sambo friend who broke a kneecap because he tried to grapple some guy's leg but forgot that he is not on a soft mat and busted it too hard on a pavement. And i heard about couple of grapplers who mounted some guy only for his friend to get behind them and break the head with pipe or stab with a switchblade in the back.
When you are used to fighting in the same way in the same environment using same techniques you are gonna use them in real situation before you can even think wherever you should. Real fights can happen in a vast variety of situation in multiple different environments. They also tend to resolve way faster than competitions where fighters have leisure to feel their opponents and formulate strategy, most of the real fights, if at least one of the fighters knows what he is doing, will happen in the timeframe of 5-10 seconds. There are many other differences, it would take a dozens posts to write about all of them in detail, but in short - real fights and competitions are vastly different, so there isn't any style that is used for competitions that would be much better than others in actual fight, since they are all pretty bad at it due to completely different environment.
I am not pretending to be some master of some Real (c) Effective (tm) martial art, just someone who dabbled in several styles of competitive sports and have an experience of fights where your health and sometimes life is on the line. In my opinion, actual martial atrs that would be used in those situations would require completely different training from what competitive fighting style offer. Traditional aren't much better because without actual use of those martial arts, in real situations on real people, all you have is cargo cult for "ancient techniques" where you don't even understand what situation they are made for.
From Russia, with love.
No.32779
>>5237How do I get into martial arts and self defense without risking being injured?
No.32784
>>32778like I said, in my country a lot of people just don't have any interest sports or fitness outside cricket, diet is shit as well(oiled up desi woods with lots of nann(bread) and 0 protein) and again no culture of recreation exercise
guys in the rural areas are usually fitter and not skinny obese cause of hard labor and better diets(mean, milk, vegetables and eggs) but they don't know how to exercise either
No.32785
>>24150People in MMA wear gloves.
No.32786
>>32784What, no one even tried to rob you or something? You don't have crime in your country?
Fighting is not really about excrcise.
No.32787
>>32786I have been mugged 3 times, but they all had guns right to my face so I didn't even think about doing shit, bike muggings are very common here and its more or less the same formula
2 guys on a bike just come right at you, the guy at the back holds a gun up to your face, demands your phone and wallet, you give them that and they leave in a flash
No.32788
>>32787So, you didn't even noticed them till they were right in your face? Gotta say, for a guy who laughs at bullshido and tries to teach other people about effective martial arts you are complete crap as a fighter.
No.32789
>>32788nta but that post drew me out of orbit with it's stupidity.
No.32790
>>32788thousands of motorcyclists pass by me and other guys daily, you can't predict who will have guns and try to mug you, I was robbed in board daylight mind you
No.32791
>>32790You can if you pay attention. They aren't just randomly riding like everybody else and then suddenly making you a target in a microsecond. They pick and choose their targets and locations. If you don't have your head up your ass and actually start looking around and analyzing people's behaviour and surroundings, you can see what's coming. At least watch the videos catching them doing that ad try to use your brain.
>>32789Perception and ability to make correct decision in a split second is way more important for martial artist than havgin a good mawashi geri.
No.32799
>>32788>>32791>muh videosShut up fag. I'm sure that anon has 10x more situational awareness than yourself being that he's experienced this IRL multiple times. I can say I've been blessed to never be mugged at gun point. I would fold too the second the gun came out. Maybe they won't shoot you maybe they will, a lot of idiots like you who thought they could action-movie their way out of situations got killed like that.
The best advice is don't go places where shit like that happens, but maybe that's not a luxury he can afford.
You sound like you're a bong thinking like how they do it there in your no guns land and how everyone is doing a quick grab and dash.
No.32802
>>32800Seems like every fight you can see the victor early on and just wait for the loser to slowly get worse over several rounds.
No.32809
>>32799At least learn how to read, shithead.
>I can say I've been blessed to never be mugged at gun point.So you admit you know nothing about it
>you who thought they could action-movie their way out of situations got killed like thaCompletely fucking opposite to the point i was making, retard
>You sound like you're a bongTwo posts earlier i said i was russian and lived through 90s Russia. You can read what it was like.
No.32810
>>32809So you were mugged at gunpoint?
>Completely fucking opposite to the point i was making, retardShut up fuckwad you made no point.
>Completely fucking opposite to the point i was making, retard.>two posts earlieryou couldv'e tagged that.
But still you never said when you had a gun pointed at your face and what you did.
No.32811
>>32810For the record I had a gun pointed at my head and I'll tell you what I did, I folded. No shame in my game. I'm still breathing.
No.32812
>>32810>So you were mugged at gunpoint?Gunpoint, knifepoint and someother points too.
>Shut up fuckwad you made no point. Just because you can't fucking read to save your life is no excuse for being this retarded. The whole point of the post you replied to, illiterate shitstain, is to be perceptive and analyze the situation and behaviour of the people around you to understand when you goona get in trouble. In fact just by doing that you reduce the chances of being robbed in the frist place because people who do that are not stupid and they target dumbfucks like you who walk around with earplugs and face attached to your iphone.
Just fucking try and find ANYTHING in my post the you replied to where i talk about fighting people with guns, faggot.
>you couldv'e tagged that.So i need to tag every fucking post i made here in every fucking post i make just because you are too stupid to follow a simple coversation between two people? Nah, eat shit, you mogoloid.
>But still you never said when you had a gun pointed at your face and what you did.I learned to avoid situations like that in the first place. By not putting my head into my ass and paying attention to my surroundings. So that solution is probably not for you, since you need a serious surgery to get your head out of your rectum.
No.32813
>>32812Lol ok, you still haven't given one illustration. So a man with a gun is approaching you to rob you, what do you do?
No.32814
>>32812>Just fucking try and find ANYTHING in my post the you replied to where i talk about fighting people with guns, faggot.Then what the fuck are you talking about? Guy was talking about being robbed at gunpoint and you're saying you have no idea how to deal with guns.
No.32815
>>32814Are you intentionally pretending to be retarded? Well, you succeded.
>Then what the fuck are you talking about? >>32799 This is you fucking reply to me, let's see what you have said.
<a lot of idiots like you who thought they could action-movie their way out of situations got killed like that.So, now either own up that you are an illiterate dumbfuck orquote me where i have said in my post that you have replied to that you should go all karate on someone who pointed the gun at you.
>>32813>Lol ok, you still haven't given one illustration.Well, if someone approaches you with a gun you should jump him and get yourself killed. Or kneel before him and ask him to end your suffering. The sooner the better. That would be my advice to you.
No.32816
>>32815Excellent advice faggot.
No.32819
>>32809>Two posts earlier i said i was russian and lived through 90s Russia. You can read what it was like.Not who your replying to, but I remember reading a piece in the Guardian newspaper (I'm a bong) about this. Piece by Duncan Campbell, the crime guy. He said the Russian mafia in the 90s recruited from boxers, martial artists, and bodybuilders. So this would make me think this stuff has value for self-defence as well? Would you agree with this? Or am I confusing street robberies with organised crime groups, who wouldn't be involved things like low level muggings? Being physically intimidating would be better for organised crime? Here in England most street level crime certainly seems to be from untrained, and unorganised, scrotes. They generally carry knives.
No.32823
>>32809you claim that, but I can claim to be American cowboy gangbanber but it doesn't change my reality, I'd be lying just like you are
No.32825
>>32819>So this would make me think this stuff has value for self-defence as well? Well, i did say earlier that it does have some skills and traits that are useful. Physical fitness, ability to endure pain and fatigue, ability to judge the distance. Compared to ordinary person a fighter from competitive sports is at an obvious advantage. Also well built person just looks more threatening which is also useful given that one of the main jobs for bratva would be racketeering, taking money for "protection".
Still if you look at their history they never shy from weapons, including firearms, on some occasion even military grade ones, like grenades and greande launchers (military was in a sorry state after the crash of USSR to the point where you occasionally would find them just selling their stuff on the black market). Obviously they have had more than just sports experience.
No.32826
>>32819 (cont)
So it wasn't necessarily martial artists they were looking for. Weightlifters were really popular. Many gang even set up their own gyms like infamous Luberets gang.
For a thugs being a former weightlifter would be no less or even more useful that being say a boxer.
No.33398
>>32799Even in this video it's pretty clear that more than half of the time they pick people who are too preoccupied with whatever happens in their smartphones to notice a fucking bike literally riding behind them. So the best advice would be to pay attention to your surroundings. It's not that hard to detect a bike suddenly changing direction and riding towards you if you don't walk with your head up your ass or in the phone.
No.33404
>>32826Fuck, Putin used to look like 'that'?! uwu
No.41272
>>40548I'd enjoy seeing watching Mike Tyson fight during my life time. Hope he beats the shit out of that kid tho
>>6654>In stuff like boxing and MMA, most people who go pro at, say, 20 years old had amateur careers before that and had been training since childhood or teenage years. Does my Shotokan Orange Belt count? did when I was like 12. I gave up on it because of money and shit and now kinda miss it, I'm now 24 and trying to get back into some more martial arts. People shit a lot on karate but I believe I've got decent kicks and punches because of my old training. I'm still interested in getting back into shotokan tho and been looking into Kyokushin aswell.
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