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 No.5237[Last 50 Posts]

Comrades let's have a thread for martial arts, combat sports and self defense. Striking, grappling, all styles welcome (except fake ass shit). Let's talk about training, techniques, fights, fighters, etc. Here's a fun fact: One of the many achievements of the soviets was founding their own combat system, sambo, which proved to be extremely effective and is still widely practiced today. Also, Judo orange belt here (AMA if you want)


Excellent Idea my good chap. What use is fitness without being able to make use of it?


Indeed, the combination of exercising, growing stronger and learning how to fight is one of the reasons I love martial arts


Anyone have advice on increasing speed and endurance in fights?


For endurance practice your forms while holding weights


Any one hit that Jiu Jiu?


is it dumb to want to start martial arts off in something with little real sparring ?


It's not bad at all. I think sparring is the real deal, but it's better than not doing anything.


Muscle memory is essential for building up speed, and it requires practicing something over and over again. I trained with an olympic judoka once, and his throws were so incredibly fast I was baffled. Why is this? Simply because these guys practice each throw thousands and thousands of times. Their bodies are so used they go into cruise control and do it automatically. This is what muscle memory is all about. The same concept applies in boxing and other martial arts and many other things.


File: 1608525986247.jpg (45.15 KB, 636x434, 10,000 kicks.jpg)


So what exactly is so Brazilian about Brazilian Jiu Jitsu?


Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu is a variant of Kosen Judo (which is a variant of Judo, and Judo is itself a reform of "traditional" japanese Jiu-Jitsu) invented in Brazil by Mitsuyo Maeda (a japanese man who came to South America to spread Kosen Judo, but he settled with with the Gracie family, a brazilian family with scottish ancestry).
Maeda with the Gracies changed Kosen Judo to a new form of Judo/Jiu-Jitsu then spread their new martial art all over of Brazil, the "Gracie Jiu-Jutsu" but then other brazilian dojos had appropriate for themselves Gracie Jiu-Jitsu (like Machado) and then rename it "Brazilian Jiu-Jutsu".


RIP Adbulmanap Nurmagomedov


Nice trips and dubs… somethings fishy about this death TBH.


Thanks for the advice. I sort of knew this, but you've put it in a new perspective for me.


Also putting emotion into your punches helps them increase speed, that's how Tyson was so powerful.


>something fishy
who would have a motive for murder? Dagestani mobsters or something? Some enemy of Ramzen Kadyrov?


Unironically both would have a motive, but more likely he probably had some ailment, the doctors couldn't be assed enough to actually bother confirming WHAT caused the death, and just wrote COVID on the death certificate because it vaguely matched the results.
>inb4 that can't happen
several doctors have come out about being told by their higher-ups to just write off even a hint of COVID in a recent death as caused by it even if it could have been Pneumonia or cardiac arrest, basically its to rack up the numbers for the hospital budget so that they get more 'funding' and the media gets to fear-monger a bit more to keep people paranoid.
Its a big porky mess.


File: 1608526068889.jpg (52.13 KB, 900x500, mike-tyson-900x500.jpg)

Mike Tyson is 100% our guy. Tyson said he read works by Marx, Mao, and Che Guevara while in prison, and that he was so inspired by Mao he got a tattoo of him. Later he also visited his mausoleum and said he felt insignificant next to it. I also read in his autobiography that his legendary trainer Cus D'Amato was a socialist who loved Castro and Che. How many other leftists have there been in martial arts?


Was Muhammad Ali a leftist? I bet he sorta was.


He was a bit black nationalist, but he was basically Maoist. He really liked the USSR.


How about jackie chan? From what I’ve seen so far he seems to be a ccp loving billionaire porky. Is he a tankie or what


He's doesn't really have n ideology, he really only cares about his films and his martial arts, so politics are largely irrelevant to him, he just goes wtih the flow as long as he gets to do his work.


Jackie Chan is whatever the CCP is.



He smokes 40,000 dollars of weed a month and keeps trying to drop truthbombs on his guests lmao


>smokes 40,000 dollars of weed a month


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I'm planning to start seriously practicing a martial art (most likely kyokushin) once sports facilities open up, with the aim of possibly making it to a professional level. I'm quite serious about it, I don't have much else going on for me so I might as well pursue martial arts as a constructive hobby. But here's the problem: I'm 25 and have no experience in professional sports at all. I have a decent amount of physical strength from lifting on and off the last few years, but that is about it. Is it at all possible for me to make it, or it's too late?


>with the aim of possibly making it to a professional level
Karate has no real professional scene such as boxing/kickboxing/MMA, only amateur competitions. You won't make a lot of money with karate.


Anyone can learn a martial art at any age, and you can compete in plenty of amateur competitions and enjoy the sport. But I'd say becoming professional is another world. In stuff like boxing and MMA, most people who go pro at, say, 20 years old had amateur careers before that and had been training since childhood or teenage years. They train hard about everyday of the week, multiple times a day. You have to ask yourself if that's really what you want, if you can do it, if you have the time, the money, etc.


>at any age
Before the age of 6 most kids are not disciplined enough to learn anything of value… unless they're asian and thus strictly disciplined at home.


You don't say.



He grows his own weed, he doesn't need to BUY it.


what would be a good place to start once COVID goes away




is this serious?


Partially. I've been so physically inactive the last couple of months that I've noticed becoming way more stiff. If you're aiming for something involving kicks yoga could actually be a very good stating point, as yoga primarily involves stretching, stretching and more stretching.

Most men beginners in kickboxing classes aren't flexible enough to do head-kicks even after 12 months usually.


I'm actually pretty flexible as is… like more flexible that most of my women friends. Is there more to gain out of Yoga beyond improved flexibility?


>aren't flexible enough to do head-kicks even after 12 months usually.
That's cause traditional martial arts don't have stretches for shits and giggles. I used to be unable to do a split as a kid. As an adult I can quite literally knee myself in the face with no effort if I'm not careful and casually drop into a split and rise up again. How? Stretch warm-ups and excessive axe kicks. As well as pushing your body to its limit with each kick and punch.


Maybe in lessening anxiety problems? Next to stretching it's a lot of learning how to keep a cool head, breathing exercises, etc.

If you're not muscular maybe pick up swimming/gymnastics if you want to be really prepared.

>no sparring

This is a bit tricky. Maybe kali/eskrima or krav maga? Because I don't want to give bad advice either. Most martial arts that are good become good because the techniques they relay are tested through sparring. Martial arts with little to no sparring is usually more a kin to intricate systems of dance rather than intricate systems of combat. Since kali/eskrima and krav maga are systems involivng weapons and such they are very hard to spar in (but at very advanced levels they spar too), but I'm not sure this is the answer you were looking for.

The streamlined answer to what the best hand-to-hand combat systems are you'd get this as a response:
picking 2-4: muay thai, sanshou/kickboxing, submission wrestling, judo, BJJ
to then go on to bringing this style of yours into more generalized MMA gyms.


>Cont. (forgot one)
Another honorable mention is vovinam.


>muay thai, sanshou/kickboxing, submission wrestling, judo, BJJ
Okay I'll try to ease myself into something. Your whole spiel about sparring has kind of convinced me of its importance at least at some point in the future. Are any of these styles known for being more or less welcoming to new comers or does it really just depend on the gym in your area?


I was kind of nervous in the beginning too, but in my case the gym (x striking sport) was very welcoming, helpful and non-pretentiously educational (teaching like a learned peer rather than a Karate-Hirohito).
Just search out your age-/height-/weight-fraction of the group and acquaint yourself with them.
Also sometimes there will be one or two assholes with ego problems that might lowkey try to make training/sparring a fight, but as long as you have a backbone, communicate your boundaries loudly and clearly they'll get snapped back into reality. Narcissists usually prey on people with low self-esteem, so as long as such behavior is highlighted socially either indirectly or directly they'll either conform or eventually get kicked out (teachers usually don't tolerate it when they catch eye of it happening).


Choose the style with the forms you'd like to execute the most. Every other aspect is meaningless. Every other advice is bullshit.


Are you worried about CTE at all? Judoka don't get punch drunk like football players but I was just wondering. I'm going to start up again once quarantine ends.


If you want to do grappling and wrestling, go for Sambo - the Russian military self-defense martial art. That combined with kick-boxing or Tae Kwon Do is the best combo.

Essentially however, Jeet Kun Do is the best.


>I'm actually pretty flexible as is uwu… like more flexible that most of my women friends~


Do you know some Jeet Kun Do fighters who did kickboxing fights or at least full-contact karate fights?


>Are you worried about CTE at all?
Yes actually (and all of us should, considering our primary revolutionary task).
As long as you don't enter into competitions I think you could be fine. CTE can develop in association football players heading the ball, which is concerning.
If one wants to be really cautious then regular fitness / gymnastics + martial arts like escrima and/or more grappling-oriented arts such as judo like you mentioned + shooting ranges could be a good set of alternatives.
I looked upon martial arts as systems of techniques that are good to practice for a shorter period of time and to thus memorize (muscle memory) the basics, to carry on with you for an elevated base-level of defense.

Sambo I agree on, it's really good. With jeet kune do I'm a bit more cautious. It hasn't performed very well in matches (I blame its wing chun influence; their system of "boxing" and """blocking""" is atrocious).
I'd recommend vovinam or sanshou as more robust, well-tested alternatives for jeet kune do.


> their system of "boxing" and """blocking""" is atrocious
You have clearly never fought a wing chun master.




I do HEMA stuff which is pretty dope.

But if you're looking for variety, it ain't it.

All pretty much boils down to 32 similar techniques with local flavour (like Italian Style, English Style, German Style, etc.).

Also very limited ground work, but the essence "back in the day" seems to be if you were on the ground you were fucked. Either getting a beat down from the boys, drowing in mud, getting stabbed by a dagger or mashed by a hammer, or just plain ol' "not gentlemanly".

Still, its nice fun. Add in some meme stuff like pugilism, DDLR, and Bartitsu, and they're very nice concise systems.

If you want to practice but there are no HEMA places locally, just do judo both with and without gi, 60 hours class time each. And if possible add some free style wrestling and/or greco-roman.

Throw in some boxing and muaythai for kicks (savate if you can locally too) and that's about it.



LOL all this fake-master showboating shit. None of these faggots are masters. There's a channel made by an actual shaolin fighter who goes around debunking these people who claim to be "Masters".


Do these shaolin "fighter" do actual fights?


No. I think judo is pretty safe when it comes to that. Training and fighting are done on a protective mat, and the first thing they teach you when starting judo is how to fall correctly (ukemi) and to never ever land with your head. Of course I did hit my head a bunch of times during the first weeks, but generally it doesn't happen anymore.


I don't think they do


File: 1608526370995.jpg (368.05 KB, 3072x2048, DC.jpg)

So whoever wins this fight is the certified GOAT martial artist in human history, right?

My money's on Cormier, the strikes are too sharp and his wrestling is Godly.

Just look at how he ragdolls Hendo here (20:48 to 24:20 in the vid):

DC's most likely gonna ragdoll Stipe in a similar way come Saturday night. I just don't see any other outcome as particularly plausible tbh.

DC's arguably already GOAT anyway

btw crackstreams (dot) com to watch it free this weekend


DC is my personal favorite between the two, mostly because I really like wrestling as an ex pro wrestling fan.
But after I saw the second fight, I don't know
who will win the third one, they really are equal to me, they could do a fourth or fifth fight, the results would be different each times.


Here's an example of the style against a tried-and-true muay thai fighter from Thailand, fighting under kickboxing rules (18min)
>Vovinam (Vietnam) VS Muay Thai (Thailand) finals in China

I find it similar to Chinese sanshou kickboxing in that it utilizes very smart takedowns that aren't really a thing in 'normal' western kickboxing, muay thai, TKD, karate or mainstream teachings of MMA striking/takedowns (yet?…).


That some very cool takedowns but what do you do after? I see that in a kickboxing match the referee stand up your opponent and you get some points by the judges but what would a vovinam/sanshou fighter would do after the takedown in a MMA or street fight?


>what would a vovinam/sanshou fighter would do after the takedown in a MMA [fight]
Well my argument is that this is just a better striking style most probably, that is, better than the likes of muay thai, western kickboxing, TKD, karate, savate. Why? Because it transitions more smoothly to what I call different modules of fighting techniques. So let's say he did a takedown in MMA. Here he has several options. One is to allow himself to rest from a lack of barrages of attacks and for his opponent to expend energy to stand up. This has strategic consequences for later rounds. Or he could transition in-to the realm of submission wrestling, or of the opponent mounts him, BJJ.

>or street fight?

Now here's a completely different scenario. In real life fighting from your back is basically suicidal, so that eliminates one module of techniques (BJJ). What you're left with is striking and submission wrestling. Good thing most of the world's population lives in urban areas today, since that means you, with your throws, have an incredible advantage vs an opponent that took a more standard kickboxing style. The same goes for judokas. You are "punching" with concrete. This is an immense advantage in street fights. Often times it takes no more than one successful throw outside for an opponent to reconsider and exit the conflict.


>tfw contact sports and martial arts will be the last activities to come back after lockdown ends
Fucking why


>Since kali/eskrima and krav maga are systems involivng weapons and such they are very hard to spar in
Arnis and many other weapons arts actually do something that not many unarmed combat systems have picked up on (sadly to their detriment): they have dynamic context drills where blocks and counters are practiced in a continuous activity with a partner.


I'm trying to get into more social sports now that I've improved my cardio a bit but I'm torn between doing boxing and doing judo, there are good places for both in my area but I only have time for one and don't know which to go with

I get kind of nervous around people as well and all the boxing gyms in my area are pretty hard old school places so I'd feel kind of nervous going into one but it looks really interesting, I've done a little judo in the past as well and I'm tempted to go back but don't know

Which is better to go to if I'm going more for the social and combative bits rather than general fitness (already pretty fit cardio wise)?


Do you prefer striking or grappling?
Anyway, if you want to start easy I would say Judo.


I have no idea
I just want to do a group sport to meet people and get more excercise but I'm too old and clumsy to start football or other ball sports


Find one close to you doesn't matter what then
What it is isn't too important that you can get to it easily is


>I'm too old
I won't ask you how old you are, but usually "old people" do Judo instead of boxing.


Mid 20's, never played ball sports growing up and don't have much interest in them but that seems to be the main social sport other than combat sports so idk

All my other hobbies are hyper solitary or at least very small groups


>Mid 20's
That's not old at all, even for combat sports.


>That's not old at all
Then why do I feel so old and why do my knees make boomer noises


>Then why do I feel so old
You probably spend too much time on imageboards fill with teenagers and young adults.

>why do my knees make boomer noises

Because you don't walk enough regularly and probably don't exercise at all.


I started kickboxing when I was 30 with no experience at sports. I had basically been drinking alcohol, smoking cigarettes and eatin fast good for 10 years. I was in really bad shape. My age and shape didn't stop me. It should not stop you either.


I am already quite physically fit see>>9399
its more for the other benefits but thanks for the encouragement


Careful with grappling if you have bad knees or had previous surgery. I'd recommend using kneepads.


>Because you don't walk enough regularly and probably don't exercise at all.
Not him, but I regularly hike and my knees still crack whenever I squat. It's really troublesome because I'm a slav, I should be able to squat without issues.


Hey comrades
I’v been working out on and off for a while but it seems like a good martial arts could be a good replacement for physical activity. Also recent events got me thinking it’s somewhat necessary to prepare for the fascist shitstorm that is unfolding in our world.

My goals are

1.Building muscle(as to replace workout if possible)
2.Posture correction and building self confidence
3. Self defense, usually confrontation & street fight. Additionally, learning how to disarm someone may be helpful I guess.
I’m 21 male 5’9” 145lbs

I’ve been interested in Krav Maga not because I intend to throat punch or maim someone, but because I got the impression that it’s more of a modernized martial arts w/ a quick learning curve.

Also off question but do you wear masks while training during quarantine? I’m wondering how training would work and if it’s even open during quarantine. Thanks


Krav Maga is indeed a good idea for what you're looking for, but makes sure your Krav Maga gym does sparring, preferably a lot.


Krav Maga is a military art, it's not what you're looking for if self defense is your interest.


There's also Krav Maga for civilians, it's well known.


So what does the civilian variant teach then? Conservative punches and kicks? Staying within or outside of the melee range? Standing throws only? Does the civilian variant not emphasize horrible injuring or even killing people in a [b]self-defense[/b] scenario? Because it would have to change so much to be appropriate for civilian defense that I'd hesitate to call it Krav Maga anymore.

In case part of my argument is still unclear, here's a good article explaining the difference between civilian defense and horribly injuring people:


Yeah, I wouldn't recommend doing Krav Maga. When it comes to fighting, all militaries have some sort of hand to hand combat training. These courses are designed to build confidence and teach basic fighting skills because they don't want soldiers shitting themselves in a hand to hand fight. Militaries don't have time to train proficient fighters. It's not designed to create athletes or professional fighters. My recommendation would be to go with a proven and known effective martial art, like boxing, muay thai, judo, wrestling, BJJ, etc. Figure out what you like the most, striking or grappling.


I was just saying that Krav Maga can also be teach to civilians.
But to respond to your argument, some people want to learn "how to horribly injuring someone" when those people talk about "self-defense", they just mean street fighting efficiency. But I agree they should not use the word "self-defense" then.


What about combat sambo? There’s a gym 25 minutes away, but looking at the sparring videos I’m already intimidated because they look like mma and idk if I’m ready for that kind of ouchie. It gets bonus points for having a soviet origin.


"combat" sambo is a meme. It's just a PR. You are lucky if you have some oldie instructor that knows actual sambo, which is pretty useful in a fight. Most "combat" sambo gyms i visited just taught some basic strikes and mma-style grappling.

Just try to find some regular sambo gyms.



This looks pretty legit though, don’t you think? thanks for helping out


Well, it doesn't raise any red flags for me at least. Hard to say without looking at their training course, but you should try at least.

Sambo is probably the best wrestling style to learn for streets since it does teach you to always come back to your feet and doesn't focus on ground grappling, which is a very dangerous thing to do on a street for many reasons.

After some training i would recommend learning soft falling techniques on hard ground (don't start with pavement at first). Falling techniques that are taught in sport usually are taught with soft ground in mind and can be dangerous to implement on hard ground. Learn to fall and roll on actual ground. Try to always make every fall a roll.


I will add that if your coach has ears like that, he is the real deal.


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what's the best kung-fu style?
i have the choice to learn hung-gar ,zui quan or shaolin


>what's the best kung-fu style?
Sanda/Sanshou, if it counts.

>have the choice to learn hung-gar ,zui quan or shaolin

Between those I would say shaolin.


Kung Fu isn't even a large overarching martial art like karate, it's just a generic name for Chinese martial arts, of which there is incredible variety. My focus has been karate (an external, "hard" style) for a long time, and the Chinese arts I would most like to learn more about are Wing Chun (an external "soft" style that makes extensive use of dynamic context drills to train interception reflexes), Xing Yi Quan (an "internal" martial art), and Southern Praying Mantis (which blends some internal and external aspects). I'm not very interested in the chi hocus pocus that a lot of internal styles peddle but I do think they have some legitimate ideas when it comes to short-range power generation.


Don't look at the style, look at the teacher. He should be the guy who actually done some fighting in his life.


>I'm not very interested in the chi hocus pocus that a lot of internal styles peddle

Actually chi is just proper breathing in it's essense, though it is a bit bigger than that. If you wanna hear scientific explanations here it is - your breathing is the only thing that is connected to both autonomic (vegetative) and somatic nervous systems. In most cases stuff like heart beating, body temperature and so on are controlled by autonomic system and you can't control it directly through the brain, but you can control your breath and through that you can learn to control some other things, making you able to push the limits of your body a bit farther than you would be able otherwise. It's a bit more complicated than that, but this is the general idea of what chi is.

There are of course some fake gurus who will tell shit about cosmic energy or something too.


Is it because he's had his ears boxed anon?


Cauliflower ear is an occupational hazard for wrestler. If he has them then you know that he at least did some on a serious level.


Because the only effective martial arts this far proven to have efficacy are those that require active combat training, and if you practice any martial art with real training you're going to get the cauliflower ear. A cursory scroll through this thread has actual retards advocating karate/wing-tsun/krav maga shit that has never proven itself in cross disciplinary competition. They'll cry that their art is too dangerous for sport but that's bullshit. I did bjj for a while and Gracie-cels constantly cried that Dana White cucked the rules against their style because it's an easier cope than admitting that the meta evolved with the sport and away from their discipline


I wouldn't miss a chance to at least try Sambo if it's close to you, since it's not very common outside former eastern bloc countries. Sambo is pretty based, it has a lot of judo throws from what I've seen. Its founder studied at the Kodokan in Japan under Jigoro Kano (founder of judo) and later created Sambo in the USSR.


>They'll cry that their art is too dangerous for sport but that's bullshit.
Cool macho straw man but no, my assertion is that karate is designed for [b]civilian self-defense[/b], rather than two guys fighting in an arena with rules. And I think it does rather well at that, though obviously there are large quality differences across styles.


>only good martial arts fuck your ears up


>and if you practice any martial art with real training you're going to get the cauliflower ear.

Not necessarily. Strikers have a lot less chance to get it, compared to wrestlers.


>They'll cry that their art is too dangerous for sport but that's bullshit. I did bjj for a while and Gracie-cels constantly cried that Dana White cucked the rules against their style because it's an easier cope than admitting that the meta evolved with the sport and away from their discipline

BJJ is pure sport discipline. I would say it is least adapted to actual street fight. So trying to dab on traditional martial arts just makes you look like a salty looser.


Is the presence of reactionaries in martial gyms overblown or i have to go out of my way to find gyms that say that are clearly antifa/no cops etc ?


Depends where you go for what like everything else
I noticed that there were a lot of pretend tough guy rightoids in the mcdojo's I checked out a few weeks ago, but few to none in the more serious places for mundaner stuff like Boxing and Judo, don't know about Krav Maga and BJJ and the other stuff mentioned in this thread because there's nowhere here to learn that

Shit places attract shit people I guess


It's a problem everywhere. Disciplines of violence are often used to glorify violence and reactionaries with inferiority complexes are strongly attracted to them.


Only in some niche gyms. Besides, it's not like you have time to talk about politics or some other shit anyway if you go to real gym.


Anybody got some good martial arts youtube channels?
This guy is really good: https://www.youtube.com/user/Shigashi84


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>What martial arts should police officers learn?


If you practice martial arts, or at least in judo, you're going to come across a cop or former cop at some point almost inevitably. Personally I avoid talking politics in dojos.


Anybody see the Khabib fight?


I wanted to, cause he's a good fighter, but it's too expensive, so I'll wait until free recordings can be found.


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Thoughts on rolling/falling heel strikes? Came across these recently when thinking about what would theoretically be the most powerful type of kick, and I think it's some variation of these. I've been doing karate for quite a long time and am surprised to have never learned these kicks formally. I guess they're popular in Kyokushin schools, a sport-oriented branch of karate not unlike taekwondo. My own style of karate is all about self-defense and we generally discourage overly complicated kicks you can see coming a mile away and especially sacrifice moves that leave you on the ground. We only do fancier stuff like flying kicks for fitness. But I have to admit I've fallen in love with this recently: cool acrobatic kicks are one of the reasons I got into martial arts in the first place. Trying to learn this from my apartment during the social isolation without access to a gym, but I just don't have enough space to avoid slamming into things. Video related:


If you can do them on concrete without breaking something, go for it, i guess. Getting prone in a real fight is bad though. Always.


I found an upload here, though its slightly cut https://youtu.be/fYVYXdBTle4
Looks powerful but really difficult to pull off in a combat


what is a good form of hand-to-hand to learn for a smaller guy


handshake and polite smile.


Boxing, Mike Tyson peekaboo style


Boxing is pretty shit for actual fights.




Because it is a sport and very specialized one at that. First of all, for a sport that specializes strictly in punching it doesn't teach you how to punch properly by making you wear gloves. I have seen shitload of bozers busting their fists because they don't know how to even make one properly, not even mentioning knowing how to hit and where to hit so that you don't break your hand. It is something that you need to practice constantly. Second, it doesn't teach you anything except highly defensive sport style against single opponent who will only punch you into head and torso. It is not very good style to learn unless you already an experienced fighter and can adapt it's techniques to different environment.

Most of the sport styles are only good at getting you better conditioning and pain resistance. You can get that with just doing gymnastics. Some sports are especially retarded though and actually can endanger you in a real fight. Boxing and bjj are prime examples.


Curious on thoughts of taekwondo or competitive kickboxing training applied in a real self-defense situation. How does for example a spinning kick or an axe kick compare to going to the ground or ignoring lower body defense like wrestler or boxer? A bit better or just as bad/worse?


Not all wrestling have to go to the ground. A lot of traditional wrestling styles actually don't do that. Goung to the ground is a big no-no in the fight. The usefullness is very situational but danger is constant. Which is why i said that bjj is bad. In fact my opinion it is the shitties sport you can learn in regards to real fight.

A regular kickboxing is ok as far as sport can be ok in this matter.

If by spinning kick you mean something like ushiro geri, it is useful in the fight, but all big moves require setup for them to work. Effectiveness of the kicks depend very much on your stability and agility, so it is something you need to train for a long time before you can reliably use it in the fight.


>learn Krava Maga
>knee Netanyahu in the balls and break his arm
>learn Brazilian jujitsu
>choke out Bolsonaro
>learn Maui Thai
>Kick the king of Thailand straight in his head

this is based.



I’ve trained taekwondo for years, in terms of of practical application I would say it’s better for conditioning/training than actual fights. Spin kicks can be effective as misdirection, but they’re too risky to pull off. An axe kick I wouldn’t attempt in a real fight as the higher you kick the more you’re raising your center of gravity/throwing off your balance.

However, it’s excellent to practice as it makes your legs very agile. For a street fight though I’d stick to muay thai kicks and maybe a few low taekwondo side kicks to the knees or something.


>in terms of of practical application I would say it’s better for conditioning/training than actual fights
Also a long time Tae Kwon Do practitioner, I don't know what school your were taught in, but it's very much applicable to actual fights.
>spin kicks
I assume this is a general statement for kicks like Wheel kick and Turning side. I have to say that this is is blatantly untrue. A wheel kick is devastating, I've seen it and done it. The same goes for Turning side kick or 360 roundhouse. Whether an individual is good enough to use this in practical fights is a different matter that depends on the physical limitations or circumstances of that individual. A former sparring partner of mine could do a mean turning side kick, but a workplace accident led to him being unable to do it properly anymore.
>the higher you kick the more you’re raising your center of gravity/throwing off your balance
That's a load of bullshit. This only applies to swinging/spinning kicks and is countered by the fact that you use your body as part of the momentum and as a counter-balance; either bend back or bend forward with the kick.
This honestly sounds like a problem related to you specifically m8, most likely incorrectly doing the kicks habitually.


Would you ever use a hook kick in a self defense context?


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>Boxing is pretty shit for actual fights.
>Because it is a sport and very specialized one at that. First of all, for a sport that specializes strictly in punching it doesn't teach you how to punch properly by making you wear gloves.
>Second, it doesn't teach you anything except highly defensive sport style against single opponent who will only punch you into head and torso.
>Some sports are especially retarded though and actually can endanger you in a real fight. Boxing…are prime examples.












What is it you think your videos prove? Do you have an argument?


>What is it you think your videos prove? Do you have an argument?
Gee, idk, that boxing is highly effective in actual fights maybe? Something that would be obvious if you actually watched even just the first video, where a boxer knocks out multiple attackers?

You're the one who argued that "boxing is pretty shit for actual fights" yet there are tons and tons of videos on the internet that indicate the exact opposite.


>You're the one who argued that "boxing is pretty shit for actual fights"
Not even the anon you're replying to. Videos can be found of people defending themselves with most fighting disciplines, anecdotes aren't really an argument one way or another for their relative effectiveness. You didn't respond to most of that anon's arguments. I would even venture to guess that some of those boxers in those videos hurt their hands in aiming for the jaw just as that poster claimed.


Learn to read
>It is not very good style to learn unless you already an experienced fighter and can adapt it's techniques to different environment.
Boxing as a style isn't good for fights. Boxers can be good at actual fights, more often than not, because they have actual experience of them and adapted techniques to different environment. It is not something everybody can do, so it's better to pick a style where you don't have overcome plenty of glaring weaknesses in the first place. Also, any sport will make you better at fights than untrained normies (especially drunk ones like in many of your videos), do we need to have an argument if powerlifting should be considered a fighting style?


To add, in more than half of your videos, i can bet my balls it's not even a boxer, judging by movement and striking techniques. Just because someone punched somebody else with a hand doesn't make him a boxer, even if the video on youtube says so.


No hook kick is among the swinging kicks that requires a lot of proficiency to use well. A wheel kick would be easier to be honest. The best use of a hook kick IRL is to strike the back of the leg of an opponent before coming in with an upper-body blow.


>To add, in more than half of your videos, i can bet my balls it's not even a boxer, judging by movement and striking techniques.
Look at just that first video of the guy knocking out multiple attackers. Notice his quick sideways and downward head movement when he evades the initial strikes from the first guy who attacks him, how he holds his hands up, his footwork, his timing, his distance management, the way he uses the jab to set up counters on the attackers charging in, the combos. That's not something you're born knowing how to do. That's something you have to learn by practicing the proper techniques with a coach and actually applying those techniques through sparring in a gym to gain experience.


>I assume this is a general statement for kicks like Wheel kick and Turning side. I have to say that this is is blatantly untrue. A wheel kick is devastating, I've seen it and done it. The same goes for Turning side kick or 360 roundhouse. Whether an individual is good enough to use this in practical fights is a different matter that depends on the physical limitations or circumstances of that individual. A former sparring partner of mine could do a mean turning side kick, but a workplace accident led to him being unable to do it properly anymore.

Of course the physical limitations matter, that’s why when I said it isn’t practical I was thinking more about an average taekwondo student or practitioner. A master of any martial arts would be better off in a street fight against a normie so that’s not really a point. And sparring is not the same as a real fight, in a real street fight you don’t have the luxury of miscalculating or wasting a move. I would not attempt a spin kick in a real street fight. Even the act of turning your head to spot the target is time that you are not looking at your opponent (however brief you may consider it to be).

>That's a load of bullshit. This only applies to swinging/spinning kicks and is countered by the fact that you use your body as part of the momentum and as a counter-balance; either bend back or bend forward with the kick.

Again I was speaking in terms of the average practitioner. Most people do not have the flexibility for high kicks and throwing a high kick would be putting them off balance.

Even then I wouldn’t throw high kicks either because they’re traveling a longer distance and are easier to catch. Just look at all the taekwondo matchups with a muay thai expert, tkd always gets BTFO’d because thais are very good at catching.

Also in a street fight with adrenaline pumping you’re more likely to overextend the kick and throw yourself off balance.

These are pointless risks that are not worth taking. Street fights happen fast and I would not be doing any flashy tornado kicks to their face. Also spin kicks are not that accurate and hard to land on a moving target.

Sounds like you need to spar with people outside your tkd circlejerk.


All your arguments are just basically
>hey you're just (somehow) super special because you're good at training
1) No-one says TKD would be picked up in a year, however I can definitely say that my flexibility, strength and balance improved within the first year I STARTED.
2) I wouldn't call myself a Master of TKD
3) Adrenalin overextensions, 'timewasteing' and other issues are literally nitpicking. This is what training is supposed to be for, to practice and improve abilities until they are applicable IRL. That's literally every martial art ever.
>spar with people outside tkd
I do. Probably the toughest opponents are kick-boxers who use grappling, for anyone inexperienced they're a pain… but that applies to literally anyone trained or not.

Also on the topic of looking behind and wasting time. You do that with the momentum of the kick. Even dismissing that, front-kick hopping front kick are no joke and definitely pack a punch.


I played mortal kombat ever since i was in elementary school am i a qualified martial artist?


>However, it’s excellent to practice as it makes your legs very agile.
Karate guy here, I'd say I have exceptionally graceful, precise, and powerful kicks among my peers, but I don't actually use kicks too often while sparring because I've always felt like my legs are just a little too slow or obvious. What particular aspects of your training would you characterize as making your legs agile?


> What particular aspects of your training would you characterize as making your legs agile?
TKD dude here. The best training for leg speed is weights and kicking high as possible as hard and fast as possible every day. It makes your mid-body kicks and swings much faster. Also focus on technique. The small details like bending the knee before a sidekick, for example, become key as you progress, as it is a pre-requisite for maintaining your kick's power as you increase speed.

Also practise double kicks forcing your leg to move low then high at full power forces the muscles to adapt.


The original anon asked about spin kicks being useful and you were trying to argue that they were and now in your response you’re implying front kicks are effective and you struggle with kickboxers.

That was the whole point, it’s better for conditioning than training. Front kicks are not unique to Tkd and Muay Thai technique is better.

> 1) No-one says TKD would be picked up in a year, however I can definitely say that my flexibility, strength and balance improved within the first year I STARTED.

See above

>This is what training is supposed to be for, to practice and improve abilities until they are applicable IRL.

There’s an element you can’t train in a street fight, tkd just makes certain crucial mistakes more likely to happen. Why train against overextension when you can just do some low kicks or something else in the first place.

I can throw high kicks very easily and very fast to the face, I still wouldn’t risk it in a street fight unless I saw the opponent was weak/slow.

> Also on the topic of looking behind and wasting time. You do that with the momentum of the kick.

No that’s bad technique you spot first. I can still spot fast and kick high and fast but I would not chance it. Also the tkd stance is poor and bouncing wastes energy.


I've tried to use ankle weights during martial arts routines before and it doesn't turn out like you'd think it might. They either shuffle around too much to be useful or you tighten them so hard they become painful and cut off your circulation.


>avoid pain
>martial arts

Srsly though if those don’t work there are other things you can do like focus mitt drills, or you can try ankle straps with resistance bands. Though resistance bands are kind of annoying. Target practice, speed practice switching around targets really fast develops reflexes.

Also if you’re like me and want to be a weirdo, try doing more household tasks with your legs and feet only like those cripplefags.


And your point is? Nothing you said contradicts what i said.


>it doesn't turn out like you'd think it might
This sounds like a you problem


Any strikers have any good shadow drills? It's so hard to maintain your skills with dojos closed and nobody to work with.


I officially haven't trained for a year, bros…


What's stopping you? Are you a wrestler? The great thing about striking arts is you can keep yourself fit in small spaces.


I have been swinging punches daily
Is that something? Am I do martial arts?


Until you wrap your fist and punch a bag, it is not martial arts tbh


And what makes wrapping a fist and punching a bag a martial art?


It makes your wrist more stable, allowing you see how to really punch without it


I don't have any punching bags anon :(
no money
what do i do
i have been thinking about doing weight training by grabbing heavy things and practicing punching in the air

at least that way my punches will be faster and swifter


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You can accomplish the same thing with knuckle push-ups. I have never in my life used wraps but I know exactly how to align my wrist when punching.


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Wraps are only a useful and important thing if you're planning on competing in a sport competition with heavy gloves on. Gloves and wraps function to protect the fists and allow fighters to punch harder for knockout blows. But if you're to the point like this guy claims where "I can't imagine ever training on a bag without wraps now" then you have trained yourself to punch in a way that's has a high probability of hurting your hands in a self-defense scenario. So it's important to be mindful of what you're training for.


>not including wrist wraps in your EDC


I don't understand the weird initialisms you just used.


>every day carry
i do carry a bandana to wrap up my right fist if necessary.
though, in most cases, you'd be better off with palm strikes or jiu jitsu than a straight right to the head.


So you're prepared to spend several minutes or longer before an unexpected physical altercation to lock your knuckles properly with wrapping? Anon, just carry a knife.


>several minutes
relax bro, just because you've never used a wrap before just means you can't punch for shit
it doesn't take that long to tie a knot
>carry a knife
not possible where i live


>>14329 (me)
what i mean is, just wrap it around your wrist a bunch to keep it stiff.
A weightlifiting strap is a common, cheap, and fast way to this
im just poor no h8


I guess when I think of wrapping I'm thinking of carefully going around each finger and then the top to lock the knuckles in place. Regardless, it takes long enough that you can't possibly expect to do it when you're reacting to a surprise altercation (which is the vast majority of them).


Grappling. I can't train with people and it sucks.


>judo taught in the West,
>my dad trains at the Budokwai in london
>karate schools open up in the west, on the back of the Bruce Lee kung fu boom
>teaches punches in the air
>gets criticised by guys like Geoff Thompson, Marc "Animal" Macyoung,
<this karate block will get ya killed in a real knife fight
<who popularise "reality based martial arts" , pressure testing
<anecdotes about street fights becomes important in marketing
<BJJ and MMA come along
<grapplers do well against kickboxers in the cage
<cage/octogon success becomes an important driver of the grappling boom
<icy mike gets in street beefs against ninja Ron Collins,
<defeats him with basic grappling
<ninjitsu Community denounce Ron Collins as a fake
<icy Mike says at least ninja Ron rose to the challenge ,
<but after a year or so comes up with vid related in any case arguing even bad martial arts is better than no martial arts - which rings true for me, most street fights I've seen have been between people who would have been toast against anyone with any ability whatsover


>>14349 (me)
Also, for anyone interested, here's a good article on the vexed subject of "reality" in martial arts.
Starts with an interesting quote
<“A sabre,” said my teacher, Szabo,”is a tool for changing your opponent’s mind.”
<-“The Sabre’s Edge” by Rogan Winter


Here's some other good general writing on the pedagogy of "reality" vs scripting. This guy's writings actually convinced me to borrow, incorporate, and develop dynamic 2-person drills in my own school.


This guy is kinda an idiot.

"If this had happened we would've heard it by now". WTF with this argument? Heard how? Let's say a robbery happens, robber has a knife, the victim is too confident for his own good in his abilities and tries to make a move on a robber, gets stabbed. There is a police report about robbery gone wrong. I doubt there would be a newspaper article about "guy who was taugh wrong marital arts". How exactly do you imagine "we would've know" happening in such cases?

Also, i know at least two guys who were hurt because they thought they could fight but couldn't (maybe you heard about Systema bullshit, they did it). And one of them i hurt myself.


Good point. The systema breathwork is good, but as self defence training it's crap. If they just did it like tai chi in the park for health it'd be alright.

, I have the slightly different problem. I've dabbled in various martial arts, but I don't know really how well they'd work, because my deescalation skills are really good.
I had one potential road rage incident the other day.
Him: do you want a fight? I'll fucking knock you out.
Me: No, I don't want a fight.
And we didn't fight!
When your blood is up all the good advice you've read about being the better man by walking away is useless, though.
You just can't think like that in the heat of the moment.
What works is "verbal judo" trickery. If you can make it clear to the other guy that (and any witnesses) that you're not the one starting the violence, you're just trying to stop the other person's violence. So basically, you're thinking to you're self I'm tricking him, if he starts it then he looses both ways. I can hurt him, but also, I won't get punished.
What would I fight for? I'd fight against predatory muggers, etc. I've done loads of knife training (kali), tested in the park with a mate trying to plug me with a rubber knife. (The only thing that worked reliably was pulling a weapon i. e. Ted lucaylucay-esque pocket stick
and chaining attacks with it myself.)
Basically, I can't afford to get mugged, financially or psychologically.
In these case, the story I'd tell myself is be a hero, really fight off multiple attackers or with weapons IRL,or go down fighting (my old age will probably be one of poverty, so won't miss living to an old age anyway.)
The problem is this type of training isn't as so testable as wresting or boxing a single unarmed opponent though.

There's an uncomfortable grey area between fights you can avoid and one's you are prepared to risk everything for. If someone is trying to bully you, if you don't do anything they'll do it more. Or someone is harassing your GF. You can't really do nothing. I work on some (mostly standing) grappling for this, grappling from clinches, double wrist locks. Not going a class, though I have done some wrestling . Just doing a few minutes sometimes with a grappling dummy in the morning sometimes. (Some wrist ties and underhooks from the video too, just to get some crossover between wrestling and knife defence)


The thing is that in a street enviroment everything goes ,one time i charged a guy pushing him ,then he triped on a plastic bottle almost smashing his head on the pavement
It was my first street battle experiance and really changed the way i was seeing martial battles


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Asking this on an imageboard is a crapshoot since we're generally all loser nerds who don't actually do anything, but honestly for basic hand to hand self defence what is better: BJJ or boxing? I'm 5'8 and 180~lbs with a 1010lb powerlifting total if that makes any difference.

Besides radicalizing me into a red fascist the last year has convinced me that political violence might become more and more of a thing in the US and being a minority I'm realizing not know how to fuck someone up is putting me at risk. Of course owning and training with a gun is ideal (especially since Proud Soys and other wignats and rightoids never ever ever fight 1v1) but I'm wary of that due to mental health issues and living in a cucked state, so I'm left with learning a martial art.

Boxing seems like something I would actually want to get good at, but I am relatively small in stature compared to most rightoids so I'm not sure getting into a fist fight with people taller amd heavier than me is a good idea. The plus here is that I can stay standing, which is what scares me away from BJJ. BJJ seems like it's better for someone like me who looks unassuming (I'm a manlet and despite lifting I do not look strong) since most people might try to grab me and being physically strong seems like it would put me at a huge advantage against taller opponents here

wat do


Boxing is better on a street situation cause as the asian martial arts teach us:" if you get on the ground , you die "


Striking is always going to be better in a self-defense situation, but it should be noted that they are both highly sport-oriented combat systems. At least with boxing you can train yourself in an "outside fighter" style that is more oriented towards defense… against other boxers anyway.


We really should divide this thread.
There should be
1. one martial arts thread that might as well include weapons and shooting techniques
2. one combat sports thread that might as well include fitness and nutrition

Just emphasizing that the difference between activities like kali and krav maga on one hand and kickboxing and submission wrestling on the other are great.


>BJJ or boxing?

Both are pretty bad, but i guess boxing is somewhat better because at least you don't learn to lie down in a fight.

If you are really a strong guy, like you say you are, i do suggest learning some throws. Sambo or judo would be my recommendation. A man thrown on a pavement rarely gets up to continue a fight. Or at all.


>I'm 5'8 and 180~lbs with a 1010lb powerlifting total if that makes any difference.

>Boxing seems like something I would actually want to get good at, but I am relatively small in stature compared to most rightoids so I'm not sure getting into a fist fight with people taller amd heavier than me is a good idea.

5'8 is barely below average height in USA (5'9") first of all.

Second, learning to box really well (with discipline and practice and staying in shape) can more than offset disparities in height and weight when the other guy (the guy taller or heavier than you) either doesn't know how to box at all or has a lower skill level in boxing.

Here you see retired lightweight (135 lb) pro boxer Scott Lawton clowning on the super heavyweight (320 lb) strongman Eddie Hall, who has set 1,000+ pound deadlift records:
Lawton peppers him with jabs and wails on Hall with stinging shots to the body and head, which Hall has no answer for.

Even when the other taller or heavier guy is also an experienced boxer, a smart gameplan implemented with discipline and properly timed, well placed shots can more than nullify their height and reach advantage.

This past December 2020, the 5'8 Saul "Canelo" Alvarez (same height as you) completely dominated the 6'4" Callum Smith from pillar to post, winning every single round of the 12 round fight for the super-middleweight (168 lb) world championship and leaving him bloody and battered. Canelo even tore Smith's tricep from how hard his punches landed on Callum's arms.


Canelo fought again this weekend against the 6'0" Yildirim and he just destroyed him, winning by 3rd round TKO after knocking Yildirim down in the 3rd and Yildirim's corner stopping the fight.

I mean, look at this guy. He's 5'8", for the past several years he's been shorter and/or smaller than every single one of his opponents and he still batters them. Observe how he times and places his shots and combos. Just turn up the volume and listen to how hard and how much pop Canelo delivers on his left hooks to the liver and head, his right cross, his short uppercuts etc.

Do you think there's anybody taller or heavier than him (who's not an elite pro boxer themselves) that would actually beat him in a fist fight? I doubt it.

Now obviously Canelo's the pound for pound #1 boxer in the world right now so you might counter that it's an extreme example, sure. But my point still stands that training consistently and at a high level in boxing (including heavy bag, padwork, jumprope, speed bag, sparring in the gym with headgear under a good coach) WILL help you offset height/weight disparities that you would encounter in self-defense fight situations, particularly bc these right-wingers you speak of (ProudBoys etc.) are highly unlikely to be pro boxers (or even amateur boxers) themselves and also are probably drunkards, so being sober + knowing how to box would both be in your favor.


>>14422 (me)
>>14424 (me)
Final thought: Weight classes exist for a reason in boxing, yes. But this is between other (pro or amateur) boxers.

When it comes to a high-level (pro or amateur) boxer vs guys that don't specifically train to box, even a good 145 pound boxer can easily spark an untrained heavyweight (200+ lb) opponent.


Your examples of a short wad of meat beating up a lanky toothpick actually aren't that surprising when we're talking about weight classes. A shorter person, having less mass invested in their bones, cartilage, and viscera than a taller person, has a larger "weight budget" in the same weight class to invest in musculature to land more powerful blows. Not really a good analogy to his real world concern since nobody thinks about weight classes before an altercation.


In other words, a shorter person that weighs the same as a taller person is going to make up the difference in frame with either more fat or more muscle (or both).



How would you defeat this bloated nazi?

What sort of martial arts technique is useful against opponents that are extremely bigger and heavier than you?


Aim at their kneecaps son, smack that patella out and make the knee bend the wrong way

All that weight won't help them nowstalinStalin


I figured as much the knees seem to be the weakest if someone weighs too much.

Aim at the kneecap with feet kick or punches btw


>aim at knee with punches
U wot son?stalinStalin


Strength and size don't translate too well into fighting if you have no background or training. Have you seen powerlifters and bodybuilders trying out martial arts? Most of them suck. It's the guys who have both a background in martial arts and are big and strong who are the scary ones. That said, Stalin stache is probably right about kicking and keeping the distance. This guy is a whopping 200 kg, he'd get tired fast. I'm not a heavyweight but I've trained on the ground with people who are 120 kg. A heavyweight black belt in BJJ or judo could take out a guy like this on the ground.


yeah it would be awkward to bend and punch somebody's knee
kicks are better

oh okay
how do expert fighters train their stamina for fights?
basic cardio or is it specifically practicing fighting techniques for several hours.


>train your stamina for fights
Sports fights have all sorts of rules designed intentionally around dragging out fights. Real altercations are typically over in less than a minute. You don't train your stamina for those, you train it to be better at running away.


i will attempt to do suicides everyday
that ought to build running stamina

i saw basketball players do it on CW


>Real altercations are typically over in less than a minute.

True. Then again, having great stamine means that there are less chances of being tired before the fight started. Unlike sport fighters you can't be sure that you will always fight in your best condition. Training physical and mental stamina is important.


If your opponent is 200 kilos, chances are your kicks are not gonna be enough to push him back, unless they are really powerful.

>Have you seen powerlifters and bodybuilders trying out martial arts? Most of them suck

It is because they don't try martial arts, they try combat sports with shitload of rules and very specific environment. DO NOT underestimate powerlifters.


what are your recommendations for defeating fat powerlifters?
how do i train to defeat everybody


>how do i train to defeat everybody

You fight everybody.


First, drop the "I wanna fight people" act. People who learn martial arts to get into street fights don't last much, and this is something that's always looked down upon in dojos and clubs. Also, if anything, sparring and training with others made me realize the inherent danger and unpredictability of street fights.


I don't want to fight people, but I want to be able to have more tactics other than running away
There's nobody near me to spar or train with.


>There's nobody near me to spar or train with.
You can't acquire practical skill without practicing them. This should be obvious.

You can't just read some board and learn how to beat someone several times stronger and bigger than you are. You do that by years of rigorous practice (including physical training) and fighting those kinds of opponents.

I dunno, buy a gun or something.


I don't have money or the means to buy gun.
I just want some martial arts theory that I can read and understand or practice something basic alone.

A crumble of idea on what to do when forced to fight is better than having no idea


>A crumble of idea on what to do when forced to fight is better than having no idea

No. It is worse because it instills false confidence in you.

Buy a kettlebell and practice (not necessarily a new one). You can't practice martial arts alone, but you can train your body. So, do that.



Do you know any books about martial arts or not


You can certainly practice strikes and blocks alone, you just can't get any real feedback without a partner.


I'd suppose in the age of the inyernet, you could watch fight breakdowns or analysis if you want to be a terminally armchair loser


why are you so mean for no reason


Get your vaccine and go rolling at your dojo. Learning to fight from a book is the most ridiculous leftcom shit I've ever heard


There are in fact a lot of things you can learn about fighting from books. And there are many more things that should be written in books but haven't yet been articulated or illustrated cleanly enough. That doesn't mean they can't be. No self-respecting martial arts expert would be without a single book on the subject. And does that mean testing those things on people isn't important? Of course not. But only a fool looks inwardly upon their own school a style and never attempts to get information from other sources.


thanks for the pdf


File: 1617567039679.pdf (22.08 MB, 233x300, Tao Of Jeet Kune Do.pdf)

Not the guy you respond but I have this one, I haven't read it though.


You are either a troll or complete retard.


>You can certainly practice SEX alone, you just can't get any real feedback without a partner.

This is how dumb this sounds.


Well no, in fact that's a retarded analogy.


It is a perfect analogy. In both cases you can "practice" all you want alone, but the results will be laughable.


thank you


Hi /ma/, I've been a couch potato for the last 10+ years, though I did karate until my early teens which I loved, and believe has helped me form much of the discipline that has aided me in my life.
I would like to start some martial art again, after COVID is over, but my body is totally fucked from being a couch potato. I mean real fucked. My shoulders - fucked, my neck-fucked, my legs-fucked.
I've been doing some exercises the last few months but I keep getting small injuries in like my shoulders and stuff from doing really simple things like pushups. I have noticed a vast improvement in my physical condition, but I'm not really confident that … my body is ready.
Any thoughts from you martialoids on this, or perhaps suggestions on what type of exercise program to follow to build up strength without fucking myself?


Start with long walks and maybe some swimming
Remember to do your warmups and stretches before any intense excercise to reduce the risk of injury


What do you mean your body is fucked? Do you have serious injuries or a medical condition? You should get that checked first. If you join a martial arts club or dojo they might require a physical exam by a doctor before letting you train. If you mean you're just tired and out of shape that's generally not a serious problem. Before I started doing martial arts I had not done exercise for many years.


Sparring is the best part imo


Kicking while retreating: good idea/bad idea?


why would you kick while retreating
isn't the entire point to get away from the source and not make contact


Front kicks are great while retreating, people run right into them all the time. They're fast and simple and don't sacrifice much footing. Other more complicated kicks on the other hand I've always had mixed feelings about sacrificing one of my footings while moving backwards. I've been doing a lot of hook kick practice in my routines lately though and I'm starting to wonder if a front hook kick while retreating might not be so bad after all.


Okay, I'll work on my balance to be able to properly do front kicks.


In grappling one of the worst things you can do is lift a leg and place all your weight on the other one. There's so many entries and throws you can do on someone raising their leg and going backwards.


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>place your weight on the leg that's not standing on anything bro


i don't think you got what i said. i'm just saying grappling is all about balance. if you lift a leg, you've already given up 50% of your balance


Never realized how common this is until now. It's actually kind of hilarious. Is this common in actual Muay Thai matches too? Or do they have the sense to teach not to attack bone on bone? Or is it just a stupid idea in general to kick things with your shin, no matter how good a job you've done of deadening the nerves?


>Or is it just a stupid idea in general to kick things with your shin
Equal and opposite reaction.
If you hit something hard enough to hurt them, you are hitting yourself with the same amount of force.. Striking with a bone like the shin means that all the force is going to be concentrated at a small point of impact and there is not much give to absorb it (unlike in your hand or foot for instance). The move is dumb as fuck. It is very likely to break your leg eventually, especially if you do it repeatedly because you might unknowingly develop small fractures that weaken the bone further.


>Is this common in actual Muay Thai matches too?
Not really.
1) the square stance has a light lead leg
2) you don't want to kick the knee anyways, because all they have to do is check it to break your leg lol


>1) the square stance has a light lead leg
Really confused what you mean by this.

Attacking the knee is perfectly fine when you aim with your foot.


Most of these guys appear to be aiming for the lower leg and not the knee anyway. Who are the idiots giving them training advice?


File: 1619325303409.jpg (54.59 KB, 857x482, muay-thai-guard.jpg)

The light leg makes it easier to lift over a kick or pull away faster


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It's called a square stance because your shoulders are square on with the opponent.
In muay thai, there is less boxing and more clinching and kicking, making a square stance marginally more illusive and headed to hit than a "knife" style.


Really note seeing the "square" aspect of it, we simply call that a relaxed fighting stance or "L" stance when most of the weight is on the back leg in my karate school. We usually discourage propping up the front leg like Muay Thai fighters because it gives away too much information about where your balance is.


I'm an armchair striker so I can't really speak for the exact advantages or reasons for a particular stance over another, but I can offer you this link.
>inb4 r*ddit


File: 1619332346443.png (18.07 KB, 419x507, front-stance.png)

Oh I understand now, by "square" you're referring to the position of the upper body as perpendicular to the direction of your target. In karate parlance a basic front stance would be a very "square" stance. That's pretty strange to me, the Muay Thai fighting stance has always seemed fairly "bladed" to me I guess. Maybe I need to fix my eyes.


What's with Youtubers/celebrity boxing fights lately? I think they're ruining the sport.


File: 1619499058618.webm (1.22 MB, 720x720, 1619324415795.webm)

The sports been dead for a long time buddy




My god, it's actually happening. What a fucking joke boxing has turned into.


I understand why weight matters in a fight and skill might triumph everything

But how does height factor in as an advantage to fights? I'm curious
Is it better if you are taller or shorter than your opponent? And why?





Depends on the kind of fight. Height can be an advantage in terms of reach with punches and kicks, but it can be a disadvantage with grappling because it's easier for a shorter opponent to get under the taller person's center of mass and throw them.



If I wanted to be an MMA champion, I would just spend 95% of my training in a good boxing gym, one that has boxing champs, former champs and highly touted prospects as available sparring partners. The other 5% I would spend it on wrestling gym, specifically takedown defense. And I would never, EVER throw kicks.


It happens when you try to strike things with long bones like a dumbass who has internalized too much Muay Thai movie logic. Ever try to hit something with the middle of your forearms instead of your hands? No, you know instinctively that you'll probably hurt yourself. Same logic applies to trying to kick things with your shins.


It really depends on the fighters.
For instance, if a short fighter is fighting a tall fighter in the same weight class, the shorter fighter's center of mass is lower.
This makes it easier for the shorter fighter to go for take downs. It also means he can shift around (and under punches) faster, making it harder to keep him in your vision.

However, the taller fighter has an advantage in striking. With gravity on his side, his punches hurt a lot more. Plus, he doesn't need to kick as high.


It's best to think of your arms and legs as meaty whips. The tip is the most dangerous part :^)


If you're a brilliant boxer they will just take it to the ground, inevitably. No smart fighter is going to trade punches with someone they could quickly submit on the ground.


File: 1622753932032.png (245.63 KB, 634x640, tenor.png)

>Ever try to hit something with the middle of your forearms instead of your hands?
D-does trying to defend incoming attacks with middle of the forearm count as hitting
I watched too much batman and forget that I don't have forearm claws.


It's a little different with defending. Obviously a broken arm is a better outcome than something lethal. But understand that all "blocks" in martial arts are never intended to be blocks despite the confusing English parlance, they are really parries or deflections. An overhead block for instance should always be done at an angle to guide and dissipate an incoming blow down your arm and away. Taking the full force of something on a concentrated point no matter what part of your body is going to give you a bad time.


Only someone completely ignorant of muay thai, but even moreso of human leg anatomy, could write something like this.


Interesting, got an argument?


hence why I said I'd train takedown defense also (Greco Roman)


1. The shin bone is big and thus relatively less likely to break.
2. The hand is fragile as fuck when you don't wrap and cushion it up.
3. If you had any idea about kickboxing or MMA you'd know that a roundhouse kick (with the shin) is among the most powerful and successful kicks in combat sports and that a fucking full-force foot-kick to a knee or a forehead without savate shoes ( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Savate ) would be exponentially more likely to break a multitude of bones within the foot, rather than the sole thick-as-fuck shin bone (aka tibia, picrel).
sadly primate evolution didn't adapt horns on our hands and feet :(


File: 1622836978278-1.png (546 KB, 1109x600, The_toe_kick.png)

man this guy's an idiot, why would he kick with the base of his shin, where it meets his foot?
we all know the correct way to kick is with the point of your big toe


Ah, so you're smartass who knows nothing about actual human physiology, physics, or mechanics parroting cultish trivia like they know shit.

1. Long bones are designed for tensile strength and longitudinal compressive strength, not transverse stress. When you hit with the middle of your tibia at its thinnest and weakest section you are putting stress on it from both sides through the momentum above it behind your foreleg and the momentum associated with your ankle and foot.
2. I don't have a clue why you're bringing hands up in your argument but obviously self-defense oriented martial arts emphasize avoiding bone-on-bone strikes for good reason.
3. If you had any idea about basic physics and mechanics you'd realize that striking with your foot presents mechanical leverage advantage over hitting with your shin and is always going to have the potential for more power. Stupid thing to bring up that suggests you're obsessed with macho power fantasies and haven't really thought through your position. As far as breaking bones in feet are concerned, this is the reasoning behind many styles' adoption of striking with the balls of feet for round kicks rather than the instep because it retains the whip-like power generation while allowing all the other bones in the foot to absorb force in line with the impact.
4. There are in fact theories that the human knuckles and fists did evolve from selection for hitting other humans. Our fists are very club-like compared to other primates and it isn't a necessary shape for finger dexterity.

Nice straw man to cope with the insecurity behind your own crappy arguments.


weird hill to die on

what kind of bullshido do you practice?


Got any better arguments?

>video footage of people snapping their legs on four separate occasions in MMA from shin kicking

>akshually guys, don't believe your lying eyes, if you think shin kicking is dangerous you just don't know enough about MMA
What's the matter MMA cultist, I thought your sport was supposed to be a bastion of empiricism?


Here's a quick history-lesson, ignoramus:
of a thai guy breaking the legs and foot of the western kickboxing (amalgamation of karate and TKD) champion of the time.

Also multiple people are replying to you.

Can someone give this guy a napkin?


Get out of your armchair and kick a heavy bag, please


Still waiting on arguments. Vague appeals to authority (which you don't have) aren't going to cut it.


So there deflection is different from defending

Redirecting the force


Several strong counter-arguments against your bullshido appeal to mysticism (did you expect the human body to be infallible? Have you sparred a day in your life?) have been levied and you know it. Stop acting up, it's very cringe.


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<Missing file


What has been presented are little more than anecdotes as if they prove something general (what they prove hasn't been stated), some sort of vague assertion about people just not doing it right (at least I think that's what you're trying to do by posting these videos, the point you're attempting to make with them isn't very clear), and lazy attempts to smear the credibility of your opponent (fun fact: I have multiple degrees in zoology and it's almost guaranteed I know more about physiology than you) or straw men (I haven't even said a thing about what martial arts I practice). You have completely failed to address the original point which is whether hitting things with the shin is a good idea at all. Start over and this time form an argument.


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(Not the anon you're replying to.)
Your arguments do sound logical. Long bones don't sound ideal for blocking kicks, and sure some have got broken that way.
But at the same time, I remember myself blocking the kick of a savateuse that way in a savate class. by accident, shin blocks are illegal in savate. I'd been cross training in Muay Thai. It did work. Unfortunately she got hurt by the block. I wasn't meaning to do it, the cross training just came out.
(Another unrelated observation. First day beginners often do well in savate sparring! They tend to do unchambered kicks like football kicks which can be fast. They're like the old "defense dans la rue" system designed for street self defence.)
I guess a lot is going to depend of the angle of your blocking shin (if it's angled, knee forward maybe that's what dissipates the force of the incoming strike along the long bones of the blockers shin?), relative bone density, etc?syndicalismSyndicalism


File: 1622962070028.jpg (Spoiler Image, 301.38 KB, 740x1373, Point Blur_Jun062021_07365….jpg)

Apologies. I just realised you're discussing shin strikes, not shin blocks.
For self defence, I'm with you savateurs/savateuses on this. For self defence, great if you wear steel toecap footwear for work and remember to keep kicks lowish (ribs /solar plexus at highest, unless an expert) or set them up with something else.syndicalismSyndicalism


ngl bros
i thought shin was just another name for the groins


File: 1622969727155.jpg (Spoiler Image, 222.72 KB, 740x834, Point Blur_Jun062021_09483….jpg)

Haha no, anon.
The pubic bones are an entirely different set of bones. (Further up in the body from the shin bones.)

/hobby/! come for the recreation chat, stay for the anatomy and physiology notessyndicalismSyndicalism


who needs school when internet strangers exist!??!?


File: 1627248700443.jpg (26.16 KB, 300x378, karate chimp.jpg)

So apparently this is going to be the first time they have ever hosted karate at the Olympics. As a karate enthusiast, I think it's incredibly stupid that they're having kata "competitions", that's something that literally nobody but karate insiders would appreciate (and even I don't care for that stuff). I guarantee their scoring system is going to promote acrobatic leaps over fundamentals and degenerate into something that looks similar to floor gymnastics. I also think it's pretty silly to have both competitive taekwondo and competitive karate at the Olympics, they degenerate to similar combat systems in competitive sparring due to the pressure of rules and point systems. Maybe we'll see some exciting rolling heel kicks from kyokushin people though.


Oh dear god it's worse than I thought:
>In addition, the Karate kumite at the 2020 Olympics will be non-contact. “Competitors send tsuki, or punches, and keri, or kicks, with explosive force at the prescribed regions of their opponent’s body. However, a tsuki or keri never actually hits the opponent because competitors perform every tsuki and keri with absolute control, enabling them to stop the motion suddenly only millimetres before coming into contact with their opponent”.
The Japanese government seems determined to embarrass one of their most iconic athletic pastimes. People are going to have a field day ridiculing this.


The funniest part about this is that unless you fucking put on a gas mask and full body suit sweat and other water vapor is still going to go all over the competitors and nearby areas. Honestly I hope someone hides a speaker and plays sneezes and coughs at times just to make these morons twitch.


Sounds like a load of horseshit to me. Judo is full contact this year (is there any other kind?), so I'm guessing there's a big presence of kata schools in Japan invested in promoting their ""style"" of tap dancing


This post is so old but man does it annoy me that I missed it, mostly because the stupidity of it is downright harmful
>you were trying to argue that they were and now in your response you’re implying front kicks
Not what was being said at all.
>struggle with kickboxers
No, I said they were tough opponents because it's a similar fighting style, so it comes down to who is more skilled, rather than what style is better
>it’s better for conditioning than training
This is a nigh-redundant claim
>Muay Thai technique is better
They're almost the same thing you dipshit
>tkd just makes certain crucial mistakes more likely to happen
Like what? None of these "crucial mistakes" are any less likely in most Martial arts, unless those martial arts are focused on either fist-fighting or grappling with reduced leg-work.
>Why train against overextension
You make this sound like it's some massive problem, when you fix this with literally a couple days of practicing kicks and being corrected by a teacher, it's not that fucking hard unless you're either really fucking old or very inattentive.
>just do some low kicks
Because that doesn't do jack shit against any opponent who isn't a total scrub, because they either don't hit hard enough or get dodged. I've lost count how many times people tried this shit with me and either I swept their feet, dodged and knocked them down or just took the hit and hit them with a haymaker.
>I still wouldn’t risk it in a street fight
No shit sherlock, that's why you train t do high and low kicks, and punches and elbows and knees and grappling, all of which TKD does. You're talking like TKD is only high-kicks. If you can't do high kicks train more and make do with other abilities, FFS, it's not that complex.
>that’s bad technique
No it isn't, this is probably the most harmful statement. When you're doing a turning side kick, you're already spinning around when you look bac, because if you're "spotting" you're letting the opponent know "I'm spinning back" ahead of time. And yes it's a risk, because that's the point, a stronger technique comes with risks that rely on your skill and ability, which is the entire point of training.
>the tkd stance is poor
Fucking how LOL
1) bouncing is done by numerous martial arts and it's usually done to keep the opponent guessing, it's not done always nor is it the default of TKD
2) It only wastes energy if you're a dumbass who doesn't use the rebound to keep pushing
3) Fights, especially street fights, do not last long, so energy conservation is retarded unless you somehow convinced a street gang to have each member 1v1 you in a straight fight.


>ou tighten them so hard they become painful and cut off your circulation
1) You're not supposed to use ankle weights that are too heavy
2) Use good quality weights that stay on snugly but comfortably, not all of them are the same
3) Pain is a part of martial arts and working through minor pains is also necessary.


>2) Use good quality weights that stay on snugly but comfortably, not all of them are the same
I'd be delighted if you could direct me to some of these. Maybe my weights are just shit for kicking.

>just cut off your circulation bro no pain no gain

This is cringe though. Blood vessels in your ankles aren't analogous to knuckle conditioning.


Oh I'm not talking about Circulation pain, that shit is definitely a no-no in any type of weight training, what I mean is the pain you might get from the weights themselves.
>direct to good weights
Personally I use 1-3kg All Pro ankle weights with Contour Foam. put them on over some socks (or your pants) and any pains or problems like tight grips is minimized. I do not recommend exceeding 5-7 pound ankle weights for anything except walking and slow-lift kicks (basically training how long your can keep your leg up in a kick rather than how fast and hard you can kick).
Also as an alternative go to the Ocean or a pool or lake and wade out to your chest height and just do line drills for kicks as fast and hard as you can, it's more subtle but does increase your speed and strength for kicks.


The International Judo Federation is killing judo too. These fools banned leg grabbing in 2010, and have severely restricted unorthodox grips like double lapel and bear hugging. They want judo to look "different" from wrestling or sambo, but they're just killing the sport + reducing its effectiveness against other styles. Jigoro would be rolling in his grave.


What's their explanation for those restrictions? Do leg grabs result in more injuries or something?


File: 1628396169543.png (1.1 MB, 1024x689, ClipboardImage.png)

>leg grabbing
>double lapel
That's the most retarded shit to restrict, it's a standard practise of Jiujitsu and sambo and Russian Judo, heck even Tae Kwon Do practices this in grappling what kind of ban-happy crap is this?

The International Judo Federation made no official statement with regards to the thought process which went into the ban in 2010 and onward. By the way, in 2013 it became completely illegal to even touch your opponent's legs or trousers during a standing grapple. Like in the 80s Foot Sweeps and Head Dives were banned in sports competitions for obvious reasons (risky and injurous), but this is stupid.

The main theories are the following
1 - Muh russkies use leg grabs too much so it's abusing the rules
2 - The (International) Olympic Committee was going to ban Judo for being too much like wrestling
3 - leg grabs made it too easy to counterattack
The IJF was fearful that Judo was resembling Wrestling too much, by restricting leg attacks it meant that scoring points had to be more elegant and airborne making for a better spectator experience.

A good article on the topic is


I'm gonna beat the shit out of all of you anons. You can't stop me


Speaking of Tyson, anyone remember Mike Tyson Mysteries?

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