/hobby/ - Hobby

>>41639
I said a miniseries would be the best bet. A proper adaptation to fit a normal runtime would be the next best bet.

But ate we teally pretending chalamet isn't insufferable. 0 chemistry. I felt everyone was miscast. Paul, the duke, all his top men, his mom. Dunno if it is just because I read the book first but still.

>chalamet
Just sucks ass
>duke leto
Manlet didn't seem regal or cold or distant enough. Seens like a happy go lucky soft boy. He should be like bambi's father.
>lady jessica
Doesn't work as a femme fatale for me. Looks like a fucking nun instead. Too emotional.

So bad. Felt like a regional theatre play or something

>holywoodslop
Never watched it. Never will.
As an "oriental" from the "orient" I think you should kill yourselves

>>41641 (You)
Ok recasting.
>paul
Dunno there are few to none known young actors. Probably would end up with an unknown
>leto
Maybe even Brolin as Leto instead. He is kinda short too actually. Someone who can play an alpha hardass properly. Maybe Jon Hamm. Probably anyone but Oscar Isaac. The kind of silent hero of days of old like wayne or how bout not brolin but bronson(even if he is a manlet?) Or how bout liam niesen?
>lady jessica
A woman who has ever played a sexy role in their career. Maybe jolie or theron. I dunno. Someone that looks like a fucking succubus.

>>41644
I don't really remember the Duke as a complete alpha hardass. He literally wheeped over muh hierachies and inegality in one scene.

>>41654
He should feel inscrutable to Paul IMO. Well that is literally the story, to Jessica too. I don't mean he should be an asshole, talking about the outward face he brimgs to his role as duke. He should feel like a Ned Stark kimda IMO.

>>41655
Like Paul in the book is clossr to his surrogate daddies than "the duke." His relationship to his father is more formal than personal. His father serves as a role model for the sacrifice he must make of putting his duty before his feelingss and familyl

>>41642
"Orient" just means "east." "Oriental" just means "eastern."

Dune takes place on a desert planet, not somewhere east of Europe.

>>41641
I think Chalamet did a good job as "Paul" in the first movie.

I think he just struggled to be "Muad'Dib."

It reminded me of that one Pirates of the Caribbean movie where Keira Knightley suddenly has to be the leader of a crew of pirates and she just doesn't have the presence for it.

I thought Timmy did a good job.

>>41667
>I think he just struggled to be "Muad'Dib."
that fits though

Bro what the fuck?
I didn't like the first movie but the second one was just ass.

People are praising Rebecca Ferguson and Timothee Chalamet for how they play the characters differently after the Water of Life (which is deserved tbf), but nobody's talking about how Stilgar feels like a completely different guy. Hell he feels like he's from a different genre. He was giving "plucky dumb comic relief sidekick" like Benny in The Mummy. It was the most distracting thing in the movie for me because it's so constant and clashes with the tone so badly. He even has an exchange with Gurney that references No Country For Old Men. Do you 'member that movie? I 'member!

Denny straight up butchered the plot.
>the significance of the water in the Sietches isn't properly explained so the reveal doesn't land, and the stuff about Lisan al-Ghaib leading them to paradise just sounds like fanaticism when the audience is supposed to know better
>spacing guild not even mentioned or implied to exist, and by extension the reason spice matters to everyone is not established
>other houses have so little agency that they all trust the Harkonnens to come to Arrakis despite the Harkonnens just killing off House Atreides on Arrakis
>political intrigue boiled down so much it's essentially just one conspiracy plot by the Emperor
>but actually he did it because Reverend Mother Mohiam manipulated him
>not only is that very dumb and oversimplifying, it contradicts this version of the story established in the first movie: why did she beg the Baron to spare Paul and Jessica if she was the one pulling the strings to begin with and actually wanted to destroy House Atreides?
This last one is baffling. It's a small amount of dialogue that didn't need to be there and it only makes the story worse. I guess maybe the idea was to go along with the rest of the movie giving the women more agency (which overall was good), but this part is on the level of fanfiction writing.

>>42280
>He even has an exchange with Gurney that references No Country For Old Men.

what reference?

I like Dune

>>42280
>>spacing guild not even mentioned or implied to exist, and by extension the reason spice matters to everyone is not established
It was in the first movie, dumbfuck. Modern audiences really don't need much more lore behind why spice is important for it to function since its clear as day its an analogue for a resource extracted from the third world by imperialist powers for their own gain, like oil in the middle east. Its driven home pretty strongly that spice is fucking expensive and thats why they want control over it.

>>26165
>As anything but white
…..
My guy, dune litterally looks like the muslim population of the sahara. Mauritania, berbers, arabs. The muslim world is exactly "anything but white".

>>42280
But him acting like a completely different was the whole point? That's what religious fanaticism does to people.

After he succeeds his father Leto and takes up his title, he launches atomic warheads at the Emperor's forces.

This is the exact moment where Paul Atreides becomes Duke Nukem.

>>26165
https://neoencyclopedia.fandom.com/wiki/Fremen#cite_ref-1
>The Fremen /ˈfrɛmən/ are a group of people in the fictional Dune universe created by Frank Herbert. First appearing in the 1965 novel Dune, the Fremen inhabit the desert planet Arrakis and are based on the desert-dwelling Bedouin and Kalahari Bushmen
Oh no! A Black person! Must whine about muh race swapping!

>>42348
>>42353
not that anon, The point is that Fremen at the in-universe are descended from an Egyptian population, the problem the Fremen are too diverse, with actors of full African, mixed-race, and a few of European descent. Like if you were to gather a population from all corners of the world, within a few generations a degree of racial homogeneity would emerge, I'm not saying the Fremen should resemble an exactly an Egyptuan crowd but having more actually more middle-eastern actors would have been something

>>26163
>Herbert’s nuanced allegory of imperialism
Hahaha dude it's a pulp novel. It's not that deep. Just admit you're triggered by a Hollywood flick having people with melanin in it. Also if we're gonna be nerd lawyers about it, the Fremen are directly inspired by the tribes of some of the desert biomes of Africa. Their cultural traits are a mishmash of orientalism throwing together anything east of Greece. Their religion is closer to Buddhism than Islam as well.

>>42363
>Hahaha dude it's a pulp novel. It's not that deep.
"The drapes are just blue."

>>42361
>not that anon, The point is that Fremen at the in-universe are descended from an Egyptian population
It never says that in the book.

>>42361
the fremen's term for themselves is literally Misr

Well, "race" and categorizations like "white" or "black" are pseudoscientific concepts without support by genetics. "Race" is based on other people looking different and people falsely attributing difference based on just appearing to be different, not due to them actually being different (which they are not, at least appreciably, all human populations are very closely related). We do not look at evolutionary relationships with phenotypes for a very good reason. So, since race is not based on genetics, it is also not based on inheritence (it is correlated with inheretence however). If someone has the common phenotypes of X notion of "race", then they will for all intents and purposes be X, since X is not based on genetics (what is inherited), and is instead based on the phenotypes of X (not inherited, but is associated with genetics), which the person in question has (especially since phenotype is the cause of bigotry, not genetics).

>>42372
The question is consistency. The movies had no trouble giving the Harkonnens a consistent and distinct appearance. So why are the Fremen so diverse? You'd think the most diverse group would be the Saudaukar who are bred from prisoners sent to Salusa Secundus, not Fremen who are highly adapted to a single-biome planet.

>>42361
>The point is that Fremen at the in-universe are descended from an Egyptian population,
>>42374
>Actually, the Sardaukar are descendants of Iranians and Northern Indians.
Bro are you citing your own fan fiction? I can't find anything that said any of this.

>>42373
Actually, the Sardaukar are descendants of Iranians and Northern Indians. They were implied to be intellectuals instead of warriors and were placed on a cold hell world as punishment for some transgression. Over the centuries, the harsh environment and infighting between the groups changed them, transforming their culture and even their ethnic appearance into groups that appeared more

>>42376
Ok, but then doesn't this make the Sardaukar in the movies a case of whitewashing?

>>42378
not really, they just became white

>>42379
That's what "whitewashing" means in this context.

>>42377
>Zensunni
Exactly. Everyone is implied to be race/religion mixed in the Dune.
>Nilotic al-Ourouba was the probable original home of the Zensunni, the Misr. Nilotic al-Ourrouba is likely referring to the name of a location on Old Earth, encompassing the areas of Egypt, the Nile Valley and maybe some additional areas of North Africa, and/or the Middle East.
Complete speculation on the part of the wiki author. That's all it says.
> "our Sunni ancestors fled from Nilotic al-Ourouba"
Nothing about Old Earth.

>>42380
>>42379
You didn't give me a source for this Sardaukar stuff at all.

>>42382
its not that talked about in the first books, where its just name you gave to off on, but in the sequel books by his son they are explicity stated to be the descendents of the Sikhs

>>42383
>the sequel books by his son they are explicity stated to be the descendents of the Sikhs

This doesn't make any sense because they are recruited from a prisoner population from the imperial prisoner planet. They can't be the descendants of any single ethnic group. The crap the son wrote is shitty fan fiction and not canon.

>>42361
Fremen are also based on the Tuareg (that's where all the references to the blue color come from) and the Tuareg are a ethno-cultural group that extends all the way from the Northern Sahara to the Sahel and can look 'middle-eastern' to straight up Black.
One skin color = one culture is America-brained.


>Their cultural traits are a mishmash of orientalism throwing together anything east of Greece. Their religion is closer to Buddhism than Islam as well.

This is lazy superficial analysis. Actual middle eastern scholars that watched Dune comment on how they are impressed that Herbert integrated key elements of Islamic theology. While Dune obviously features orientalist elements calling every form of media that does featuree middle-eastern elements orientalist shlock is just intellectually lazy.

>>42352
>he launches atomic warheads at the Emperor's forces.

He doesn't, he uses the nukes for the shield wall in an attempt to have plausible deniability for a non-violation of the great convention to not undermine his legitimacy in front of the great houses for his coup to succeed.

>>42383
That garbage his idiot son "wrote" shouldn't be considered canon.

>>42389
Um actually, it's literally impossible for a white Western person to understand any sort of culture and religion from the global south. An Arab American who lived his entire life in America and studied English literature said it, so it must be true

>>42401
That is NOT what he said

>>42383
>the Sikhs will have the same phenotypes after 10,000 years in outer space
nah

>Prison Planet
The correct phenotype for the Sardaukar is Alex Jones.

>>42423
He's going to prison very soon after all.

>>42361
>baseless claim about the ethnic origin of a people's canonically twenty thousand fucking years into the future to try and make some race panic over how it's impossible and woke for an society covering a desert the size of an entire fucking planet to have multiple groups with distinct phenotypes welded together into a single culture through canon religious conquest by the bene gesuist and United in a fight against an overwhelming imperialist force bend to genocide them.

Light skin and all phenotypes are less than 10k years old irl, my guy.

>>42446
Unlike IRL the Fremen are shown to be in contact with each other across the globe and routinely travel across the planet, so the effects of genetic drift on them would not be as strong as they are on Earth in our real history and prehistory. Given that in the story the Fremen are said to have various adaptations specific to Arrakis (like resistance to bleeding), they have some common ancestry and have adapted to the planet. You would expect to see variations, and arguably more than in many other parts of the Imperium (especially the nobles are practicing eugenics).

What you wouldn't expect is pretty much the whole spectrum of what you see on IRL Earth. We have a lot more conditions than one big desert. Given how white-dominated the Imperium is in the movies (a handful of characters like Yueh and Thufir aside) it seems like a deliberate casting choice, to contribute to the geopolitical coding of the characters and reality subtext of the movies - making the Fremen more representative of the global south in general. That's a fine choice to make in isolation, but it does clash with the themes of Dune (which are themselves problematic at times). It's sort of trying to have your cake and eat it too between grounded worldbuilding and symbolic impact. In the source material, that was already done by having the specificity and uniqueness of the Fremen contribute to the representation of an oppressed people, rather than being more of a melting pot.

The movies don't have time to delve into much detail so the overall effect was always going to genericize the Fremen, and it seems like they leaned into that by intentionally casting the Fremen as much more diverse than the rest of the cast. IMO that choice would work better thematically if the movies had also leaned into the mythic elements or had used a framing device like Princess Irulan's quotations to make the story feel more symbolic than literal. But that potentially would have worked against the cautionary tale by romanticizing it. There's a lot on the table thematically, and it's challenging to balance those pieces against each other. The choices they make in that regard reflect the popular zeitgeist within Hollywood, which in terms of anti-racism tends to be pretty simplistic and surface level. Hollywood is not really the best place to go for anti-imperialist propaganda even if now and then you have somewhat exceptional examples popping up.

>>42448
Given that the Fremen are semi nomadic peoples they have similar interactions to the Taureg and Berbers irl over similar distances. Thats plenty of isolation to develop distinct phenotypes over distant, especially given the high selective pressure in such an environment.
15 thousand years is plenty time to develop "special adaptations" such as quicker blood clothing to prevent moisture loss given that such variation is already present in todays population and it just a question of selection and duplication of genes, which happens fairly quickly in an environmentally highly selective environment.

Also who care. Why aren't you talking about the erasure of the identity of the harkonnens.

>>42449
>Also who care. Why aren't you talking about the erasure of the identity of the harkonnens.

Ugh, the F*nns…

>>42449
>Also who care. Why aren't you talking about the erasure of the identity of the harkonnens.
I can. It makes the lineage stuff bizarre. If Jessica is half Harkonnen what happened to all the freaky Harkonnen traits? In the book they are redheads and she is a redhead. She's more closely related to the Baron than Feyd is lol. I guess because the rest of the characters didn't really get much attention on planetary adaptation, they went to the extreme with the Harkonnens (also because they're bad guys and making them more inhuman works for that purpose).

>Thats plenty of isolation to develop distinct phenotypes over distant
Yeah that's what I said. It's just a matter of degree. Arrakis doesn't have that much variation in environment compared to Earth. You would expect a lot more diversity on Caladan since the wetter climate allows more diverse environments. House Atreides is relatively diverse compared to the rest of the Imperium, but not compared to the Fremen. Giedi Prime being homogeneous pod people makes the most sense given they live in a mostly artificial environment. Being super fair skinned and fair haired fits with that in the original version too, but keeps them less alien.

paul is sort of like trump if u think about it