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File: 1608526502357.png (500.25 KB, 985x510, 329847238947923874.png)

 No.9852[View All]

Discuss.
Dune discussion general.

https://youtu.be/jJj2yHM3d3Y
264 posts and 58 image replies omitted. Click reply to view.

 No.21731

Making Spice Russia - birchpunk

 No.21909

>>21280
>Kynes must be a fucking joke of a character, literally introduced and then dies like 10 minutes later.

Yeah that one's weird. They genderswapped Kynes and then cut the meal scene(dinner) with the smuggler and arrakeen big honchos that would give a lot of context and worldbuilding with a small budget compared to fucking around with CGI.

Another thing that bothers me is that they seemed to have cut all of the eugenics out. That's what Dune is about. It's "What if humanity went full retard and took the (shittiest) path of solving every problem with eugenics, the story." So now the Bene Gesserit are just feminist witches holding out against unenlightened feudal patriarchy, the male "Kwisatz Haderach" cannot be explained because political correctness. And I suspect the rush through the betrayal arc is because political correctness would not allow the depiction of the protagonist as part of the feudal, deeply classist society with cynical aristocrats openly admitting it's all smoke and mirrors to keep the rabble busy, miserable and subservient. Oh and the Fremen need to be kept in the noble savage(but oddly progressive, instead of pragmatic) unexplored territory.

It's like they wanted to make a modern adaptation but in the process ended up gouging most of the meaty bits for political correctness until what remains is a generic story with winks to book readers that satisfy no one.

Book readers are reminded of all the movie does wrong by omission and non book readers don't get the reference at all because it's given no context within the movie.

 No.21914

>>21909
> So now the Bene Gesserit are just feminist witches holding out against unenlightened feudal patriarchy,
Wait
How the fuck did you get the notion that the Bene Gesserit were good in the film? They come off as devious as fuck, help to orchestrate the death of Paul’s house, Paul’s mother is shown as right to have gone against their wishes, and Paul himself despises them for setting him up to be their puppet.
> the male "Kwisatz Haderach" cannot be explained because political correctness
Or….crazy thought…they’re saving the explanation for the second film? Like ffs in this movie they only even vaguely hinted at what is supposed to make Paul special, all they have given thus far is that he has some Bene Gesserit abilities and can also see the future vaguely
From what is shown it’s pretty clear they’re going to explain his abilities in the next film since the ending shows Paul having visions of multiple possible futures
> And I suspect the rush through the betrayal arc is because political correctness would not allow the depiction of the protagonist as part of the feudal, deeply classist society with cynical aristocrats openly admitting it's all smoke and mirrors to keep the rabble busy, miserable and subservient.
Again, it’s pretty damn clear the Atreides are not truly liberators to the Fremen, Leto’s men clearly see the Fremen as savage subjects and nearly murder the first few Fremen they encounter who they had specifically contacted to come for diplomatic negotiations, and Leto himself is only contacting the Fremen to have an edge against the Harkonnens and the Emperor who he knows are trying to kill him
Also why the fuck do you want to watch a movie that’s 90% exposition exactly? You realize a film adaptation is not a BOOK? Film is a visual medium, most people do not want to see a film consisting of people constantly explaining shit to other characters who should already understand the situation in-universe
Like did you want a scene where Paul is directly told what spice is used for even though he should already know? Paul isn’t exactly on a hero’s journey here.
> Oh and the Fremen need to be kept in the noble savage(but oddly progressive, instead of pragmatic) unexplored territory.
Again, how exactly did you get this interpretation? The second the Fremen encounter Paul and his mother traversing the desert, they sic sandworms on them and then plan to murder them for their water, afterwards Paul is forced into a duel to the death against a guy he just met, and again, there is going to be a second film that depicts the Fremen jihad
> It's like they wanted to make a modern adaptation but in the process ended up gouging most of the meaty bits for political correctness until what remains is a generic story with winks to book readers that satisfy no one.
It’s almost like they’re making a sequel and most people actually enjoy twists, revelations, and no bland exposition in a movie

 No.21915

>>21909
You are a retard

 No.21918

>>21914
>Film is a visual medium, most people do not want to see a film consisting of people constantly explaining shit to other characters who should already understand the situation in-universe
Excuse me, without the knowledge of the Butlerian Jihad, which is mentioned in the book in the first fucking chapter, you won't even get why their tech is so weird and why they use swords.

Take the scene with the hunter-seeker drone for example.
>the operator must be nearby!
Why? The audience is left clueless as to why we need mindslaves to operate things.

 No.21919

>>21914
>Film is a visual medium, most people do not want to see a film consisting of people constantly explaining shit to other characters who should already understand the situation in-universe
Ditching the internal monologues was unironically a huge mistake. They should have learned from what David Lynch did right instead of trying to be as different as possible in execution.

 No.21920

>>21918
>Excuse me, without the knowledge of the Butlerian Jihad, which is mentioned in the book in the first fucking chapter, you won't even get why their tech is so weird and why they use swords.
Why the fuck does the audience need to know? And furthermore, how the fuck would this be conveyed to people who should already know the history of their own universe without making the main characters look like retarded with a shit tier exposition scene? Like why the fuck does Paul need to be told shit he should already know as the heir to House Atreides? Idky book fans struggle to comprehend that films typically do not have an ongoing narration, and almost no well-done narration is a boring fag giving exposition about plot.

 No.21925

>>21920
Dude, there are core aspects of the entire story that you can't just guess or whatever. Should LotR have started in the Mines or Moria?

In the movie, Paul literally watches documentaries on Arrakis and they fit in nicely into the fabric of the movie, so come the fuck on.

I am usually a big fan of "show, don't tell" and Dune is already weird enough, but you do realize there is barely any substance left for non-book watchers to apreciate besides the visuals? Excuse me for expecting something a bit more high-brow than Star Wars which is just just self-explanatory fantasy transplanted into space.

 No.21926

>>21925
Also, they are covering like… 1/3rd or less of the first book of a saga. A first book which is itself an (in-medias-res?) introduction. There is so little meat in the movie. They have actors, they can have the actors speaking. AS I said before the book provides two scenes of motly dialogue to establish context without needing to verbalize the internal monologues. The meal scene with Kynes and the Arakeen VIPs and the verbal interactions with Stilgar's Fremen before the fight with Paul.

But they din't want to go there because the Fremen wont fit very well to politically correct sensibilities if reproduced faithfully and will get scorned by book readers if they don't. Apparently their budget is better spent on desert and explosion's CGI and fighting choreography. So much so that they skipped the whole "finding the traitor" arc and with it the entire in explainer for Hawat, Idaho, Jessica&Leto and their situation on Arrakis to rush to the fighting scenes.

I'm not asking for some stringent pedantic adherence to the books. I read the books after watching the movie and it's such a shame how little they did to condense the already sparse explanations given in the book. It seems to me that they went the other way, that they though it they remove just a little bit more context, they could pass it for a generic story that needs no worldbuilding.

 No.22086

I'm 80 pages into Children of Dune, why do people hate on this book? It's better than Dune Messiah so far, and even that wasn't a bad book by any means.

 No.22087

>>22086
Dune Messiah isn't even a sequel, it's literally more or less the conclusion of Paul's arc that began with the first book, it's a great book.

 No.22088

>>21926
After watching the Lynch version it's very obvious that they tried very hard to be as different as possible and it really suffers for it. The worst example is that where that version over-explains things the new version explains nothing.

 No.22090

>>22087
It's so cool that Paul can run the universe but the possibility of being a single father drives him to suicide, pimp as fuck

 No.22151

>>21203
>Golden Path
So I'm reading through God Emperor right now and the problem I'm having with the series is that the more things are explained the less sense they make. And the whole "Golden Path" that Paul didn't have the balls to take is like peak nonsense justified by prescience.

>Oh sorry the prescient character says so! x99

For everything.

Also the eugenics is starting to get on my tits. I get the eugenics as a plotpoint to illustrate the ass backwards, stagnation of an empire stuck in spice based technofeudalism. But even then technology is lampshaded as an easy way out the moment anyone develops a way around shield technology or brings back computers for FTL navigation.

It seems every plotpoint revolves around some part of "human nature" that needs to be bred in or out of the human species. So the threat to humanity justifying the Golden Path feels even more contrived. Like if there is genetic/psychic memory, what is the justification of the Bene Gesserit or the Tleilaxu or the guild navigators not to explore that memory to gain a massive edge with the scientific knowledge from before the Butlerian Jihad?

But nope it's all about breeding the right prophets, warriors and administrators. Then ultimately traumatizing the entirety of interstellar humanity so that it's collective genetic memory will direct them unconsciously away from the timelines that result in extinction. At no point is this access to literally the entirety of human knowledge and experience, even mused to be of any use other than securing technofeudal power so that one can do interstellar level eugenics.


Why? Because some prescient dick that claims to be acting with the perspective and wisdom of every previously lived human despite never acting himself outside of character for the present times says so. and because of it every character and faction must be retards.

 No.23509

I've heard Dune is a big inspiration for HighFleet, can anyone confirm? It's got some of the aspects but reminds me more of STALKER and HOI4 TBH just in a more modernized setting (for the latter)

 No.23510

>>21006
why did they design the orifice to look like a butthole…

 No.23877

Mixed feelings about the movies
I watched it in a cinema
>badly paced story
>characters youre supposed to be invested in hardly have any screentime
>weirdly religious in its visuals and music
>just a 2 and a half hour BWAAAAAAAAAAAAP Hans Zimmer music video with pretty CGI

Also
>Lawrance of arabia will save the space arabs
But i heard from others that if you had read the manga you would know that its actually a brilliant deconstruction of the trope so meh

Movie could have been better tbh.

 No.23878

>>23877
If there is going to be a directors cut with more story and less CGI i would be down
But after 2 hours of hans zimmer earrape my adhd brain was just 100% mush and i wanted to go home

 No.23879

>>20596
No i agree

I never read the manga and dont plan to
Only thing so far in regards to the tech is:
>super shield tech that blocks high velocity shit but not slot stuff, so you can still walk and work, meaning the only weapons usefull are melee and shit

Why the fuck do they need spice
You dont even know the characters who die
The main character hardly has any dialogue.

Movie is shit. Looks pretty though. Nice Hans Zimmer music video

 No.23880

>>23879
>Only thing so far in regards to the tech is:
>>super shield tech that blocks high velocity shit but not slot stuff, so you can still walk and work, meaning the only weapons usefull are melee and shit
Only thing i figured out by deduction i guess.

 No.24902

File: 1652384291849.png (472.72 KB, 1400x700, ClipboardImage.png)

Ya know, you've forced me… to come here and set things straight… [whispers] personally.

 No.24984

File: 1652586660433.jpg (48.95 KB, 448x594, chrisopher walken.jpg)

>Bring in that floating fat man, the Baron

 No.24985

>>24984
>ayyy i'm christopher walken over here, in DUNE 2 3D only in IMAX

i'll cry if they adapt that from the novellas

 No.24987

>>23879
>Why the fuck do they need spice
Space travel. The Navigators need it to be able to chart a path through space. Also, most of the people you see who have seemingly super-human abilities, like the mentats and Bene Gesserit, use it to a greater or lesser degree. It's basically brain steroids that gives you low level psychic abilities.

 No.24989

File: 1652591178936.png (78.85 KB, 597x487, ClipboardImage.png)

>>23879
>Why the fuck do they need spice
They don't use computers after they had AI go crazy so they need brain enhancers that let enhanced humans do math. Not just the navigators, but you also have the mentats (the advisors you see with the mouth tattoos) and others who use it for extra power.

 No.24991

>>24989
>they don't have computers
wait then what powers their systems? the planes?

 No.24992

>>24991
Planes don't need computers to fly or have functioning instruments. How do you think they did it before we had small enough computers to do that? IIRC the vehicles are powered by fairly mundane means, some things like the space ships using the Holtzman effect that is used to handwave all sorts of stuff from folding space to the energy shields.

 No.24998

>>24992
A plane is significantly different to a spaceship, and you cannot create a functional large scale plane comparable to a passenger liner and not have computers of any kind. Hell even the first manned aircraft had pilots bringing handheld altimeters and other devices to fly safer.

 No.24999

>>24998
The Hughes H-4 Hercules, which is the second biggest aircraft ever built, didn't need any computer. You could theoretically make a spacecraft work with a compass a clock and a side rule, it would just be an extreme hassle. Hell NACA used women as computers before the technology was mature enough.

 No.25000

>>24999
But even if the mentats can think fast enough, they can't send out motor movements fast enough to be equivalent to a flight computer. A computer can control hundreds of devices at the same time. How can a human do that?

 No.25001

>>25000
>>24999
>>24998
>>24992
>>24991
>>24989
Maybe I read it wrong or am not deep enough into the lore, but I thought the Butlerian Jihad was just a ban on all "thinking machines", meaning a ban on AI or anything that could be construed as AI or simply any machine whose function could be construed as doing your thinking for you, but not all computers in general. Like I said, I haven't read any extended lore about Dune, but from the books it didn't seem like they had any problem with "dumb" computers, ones that served a mostly mechanical function, and a lot of their technology implies some degree of computerization, just with any and all AI banned. Like I don't see how the hunter-seeker could possibly have functioned without computerization, but it couldn't make any decisions for itself. It needed an operator nearby.

 No.25002

>>24999
The Spruce Goose had plenty of onboard navigational instruments and was a Flying Boat.

 No.25003

>>25001
>any and all AI banned
That makes a heck of a lot more sense to me.

 No.25773

>>22151
>Oh sorry the prescient character says so! x99
The good news is that Heretics and Chapterhouse don't share that problem because no-ships are spread enough that the True Prescience isn't a problem. It also helps that Odrade isb a way more developed and sympathetic protagonist compared to Paul, Leto, or Sionna

 No.25774

>>25773
The bad news is that Frank's wife wasn't there to edit those last two books because she was dying of cancer, the villains, called the Honored Matres are very much sexually frustrated sci-fi writer bullshit

 No.25794

>>25774
>the Honored Matres are very much sexually frustrated sci-fi writer bullshit

what do they have their tits out or something

 No.25801

>>25794
They enslave men by getting them addicted and brainwashed to their pussies, they also glass any planet that doesn't immediately surrender to them. Duncan Idaho #363638484 does the reverse on one of them and gets her pregnant.

 No.25806

>>25801
>They enslave men by getting them addicted and brainwashed to their pussies

I dunno dude if the game be insane some men lose they brain. This be like 40 thousand years in the future, bet they got positions and shit that we ain't even dreamin of. Hyper kegels, take the dick meat right off the bone.

 No.25815

>>25806
>>25801
>>25794
>Sci-Fi literature
<sudden attack of lonely Japanese hentai artist syndrome
It's like TiTs but even randomer.

 No.25831

>>25815
>TiTs
What's that?

I ask because there's no way that acronym is going to bring up what you're talking about.

 No.26163

https://www.washingtonpost.com/outlook/2021/10/28/dune-muslim-influences-erased/
Washington Post says that the movie removes a lot of the Islamic influences found in the book and also turns Herbert’s nuanced allegory of imperialism into generic “white people bad, brown people good” radlib crap. Kinda have to agree tbh.

 No.26165

File: 1655854276869.png (86.16 KB, 320x240, ClipboardImage.png)

>>26163
It's pretty funny that Hollywood didn't have the balls to make the Fremen seem Islamic at all and actually cast them as "anything but white" instead of some kind of consistent appearance, which is both silly and in contradiction with a lot of the major ideas in Dune.

 No.26166

>>26165
The West is still scared of islam, even though the ones that are going to start executing people in the near future are christopussies.

 No.26177

>>26165
Jihad is still a no no word in america because they're still obcessed with 9/11

 No.26192

>>26163
would honestly be curious to find out if dennis has even read the sabres of paradise

 No.26194

>>25001
The books also heavily imply (at least in children and god emperor) that the ban on AI is violated all the time, the elite just never mention it espstein-style.

 No.26195

>>25001
>Maybe I read it wrong or am not deep enough into the lore, but I thought the Butlerian Jihad was just a ban on all "thinking machines", meaning a ban on AI or anything that could be construed as AI or simply any machine whose function could be construed as doing your thinking for you, but not all computers in general.
Technically speaking a calculator doing simple arithmetic is still doing thinking for you.
Maybe they banned computers emulating neural networks.

 No.26196

File: 1655926754396.png (342.96 KB, 687x720, konata smug.png)

more like pune

 No.26197

File: 1655926885467.png (315.27 KB, 636x595, konata cry.png)

true

 No.26198

>>26165
That dude looks Somalian or Ethiopian so he does have some Islamic influences on him.


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