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 [Last 50 Posts]

Dune discussion general.



it better be better than the lynch one


Oh , the memories


Is it true that WarHammer 40k is heavily inspired by Dune novel?


chalamet is delicious.
The lynch one is kino campyness included.
It will most likely be very liberal at key parts.


I haven't watched anything from Villneuve yet, but I heard that all of his stuff is fantastic.


It’s a mix of everything the 4 dudes that founded GW loves: Dune, D&D, Star Wars, LoTR, weird sci-fi guns trending at the time and historical memes.


Awful music


I'm tired of it, though I used to like it. I want to watch new sci-fi for a change that talks about current problems.


I just want to see a God Emperor of Dune adaptation already so we can be done with it.


The film so far looks like generic hollywood sci fi, i dont put much hope into it. Not enough surrealism.
Movie trailers are usually outsourced to third party studios so I wouldn't make guesses on the soundtrack. Hence why they're all the same.


Could anyone properly explain what Dune as a series is about? I only watched the Lynch movie and read some plot synopsis, but it isn't too clear. So the main plot basically is about how Paul gets manipulated into becoming a genocidal monarch, realizes this and then has his son take over as an accelerationist tyrant with the goal of eventually destroying the current galactic system?


The Lynch movie was compressed, confusing and awful, you should have instead watched the 3 part Dune miniseries, it's much better and more faithful to the book. Frankly, you don't have to read the book if you watch that series.

As for what it's about… it's kind of long, but Dune is two books in one. The first is about a feudal galactic system, and within that system there's a noble family that is forced to take over a desert planet (Dune), who are then betrayed by the emperor and the former family that had owned the planet. The son escapes into the desert.

The second "book" is about how that foreign born son "dances with the natives," wins their trust, and twists their local religion to become the messiah of their prophecies and to wage a guerilla war to retake the planet. The desert planet matters because it's the only planet in the galaxy that produces the spice, which is a necessary ingredient for faster than light travel. It was an allegory for the dependency of foreign empires on controlling oil rich countries in the sixties/seventies, and a lot of the words in the book sound Arabic. The ending was that the war got so out of hand that the emperor came to Dune himself to try and finish it, and the princely protagonist has the natives launch a surprise attack, and then he forces the emperor to make him the new emperor of the galaxy.

There's a lot of other threads mixed in that end up in later books, but that's a summary of how the series began.


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>There's a crusade coming


ngl it's quite clever since that crusade is going to be called a jihad later in the story and the two terms are equivalent right down to them being highly triggering and problematic to populations that have been on the receiving end of a crusade/jihad


He's my favorite director and I'm a huge Dune freak so this is about the best possible combination to have me wig out.



Jodorowsky’s version is the only good one. Not this all gray bleached out garbage.
Good bless the frogs for spawning Moebius.


Deconstructed hero's journey. Dune is a hero's journey story as written by someone who explicitly hates heroes. The surface reading of Dune and what is actually happening are frequently opposites of each other.

It's also a reply to Asimov's Foundation trilogy. Interestingly there's a Foundation series coming out:

Foundation takes place in a declining empire. A "psychohistorian" named Hari Seldon has discovered a way to use mathematics to predict the historical development of human societies on large scale – which is now possible given the galaxy-sized scale of the empire. Seldon predicts the empire will collapse and plunge the galaxy into thousands of years of darkness. The solution is to create a "foundation" that will accumulate human knowledge, preserve it, with the hope of shortening the dark ages and allowing the galaxy to recover from this very long "depression" in a kind of behind-the-scenes planning.

Herbert, being more of a libertarian, didn't like this idea. A big part of Dune is that plans laid thousands of years in the past run out of control. Paul Atreides, the protagonist in Dune, is the result of a breeding program by an order of space witches named the Bene Gesserit to create a superbeing which they can control and take over the galaxy. It doesn't quite work out that way.


>Herbert, being more of a libertarian, didn't like this idea.
The anon who wants to know more here. But isn't this contradicted by the later novels though? From what I've read in the synopsis, his son specifically uses a really long-term plan that he predicted in order to eventually save mankind (Golden Path). Also from what I've gather this plan was highly brutal, so it also seems as if the books are saying that the ends justify the means as well.

>Asimov and Foundation series

I'm a bit of a booklet when it comes to OG sci-fi, but at least the premise sounds quite Marxist in its view of reality, that a person could in theory manage to predict the future historical developments by absorbing present material information. Was he somewhat of an /ourguy/?


You mean the comics? Have they been translated to english? I can only find downloads in the french


I heard that they gender bent Lyet Kynes, the leader of the Fremen. Thankfully he is a minor character but it's especially egregious that, out of all the characters, they would make him a woman. Because the Fremen are basically an arab mixed/berber civilization, and a woman being the leader of such a society? Yeah, it pretty much shows how completely out of touch liberals are with the exotic cultures they fetishize. They like the aesthetic and different skin colours of far-away people but they put under the rug all their cultural aspects which do not align with liberal ideology.

It's a cover of Pink Floyd, you philistine!


That's what he's saying, it's an awful cover/remix. Only thing worse is probably a blue monday remix from ready player one trailer.


Every Marxist interested in SF should read the first three books of the Foundation series. Psycho-history is basically historical materialism on steroids.


Aside from them changing Jihad to crusade it looks pretty cool. I'm going to reread the novel so I can be a bitchy little nitpicker when it comes out.


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>Only in cinemas
Maybe if it was Jodorowsky's Dune.
I'll wait for them to sell it to streaming services when nobody goes to see it. Bad luck that this was being made during Corona, eh lads?


Damn I didn't realize Villanueve did Sicario. Even more impressed with him now.


They are going to ruin it.


It certainly won't live up to the novel, but I don't see why it can't be a good movie. It couldn't possibly tank as bad as John Carter.


They use the term crusade in the books as well.


I went to a cinema to see Tenet a week or so after it released in my country and it was utterly empty, if you're scared about the corona you have nothing to worry about as most people have the same thoughts so you'll have a screen practically to yourself.


After what he did with Blade Runner he has my trust.



Is there a bigger enemy to cinema than this man? All of his “films” are bombarded with pseudo imitations of other directors: Prisoners is a blatant remake of David Fincher’s Zodiac. Enemy borrows elements from Alfonso Cuaron’s Prisoner of Azkaban, and Arrival, the biggest offender of all, plagiarizes the moody peril that comfortably resided in Christopher Nolan’s Insomnia. Don’t forget about Sicario either, which is a shamelessly nuanced attempt to hijack the cinematic language of Michael Bay’s Bad Boys 2.

Denis Villeneuve doesn’t contain a single original thought. Blade Runner 2049 was a culmination of hackery and evident of the intellectual dullness of his previous films. The man is simply a proficient illusionist. He knows who to surround himself with. For instance, he employs the likes of Roger Deakins to photograph his movies with IMDBlike sensibilities in order to hijack the approval of impressionable film buffs looking for the next piece of “cinema” to fawn over. Then he calls up Ryan Gosling, still enjoying the indie spoils of his Drive fame, in order to drown 2049 in arthouse approval.

And Dune is next on the menu.

Denis’s Dune will receive the same cultural reception as George Lucas’ Star Wars prequels, Timothée Chalamet as Paul Atreides having a strikingly similar casting notion as Hayden Christensen as Anakin Skywalker. The prequels can be forgiven as misguided art though. Dune will be the anti-thesis of that, a film crafted by a hack at the peak of his illusionist abilities.

Villeneuve is a miserable hack whose movies are propped up entirely by Deakins meme cinematography which gets the r/movies and IMDB pleb crowd all hot and bothered. It is the death knell of Cinema. One of the biggest trashmasters working today, a hack's hack. This is hot pocket the director. Cheeto dust: the man.

His flicks are a bad joke; an insult to the filmic medium; a gob of spit aimed at all that is good and great about filmmaking. Another polished post-fincher gritty popcorn director.


>Don’t forget about Sicario either
I bet that reviewer hasn't even heard of Heart of Darkness. They don't even have the decency to call it an Apocalypse Now! ripoff.


Say what you want but his movies are better then 90% of the movies that are being put out.


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That’s not a high bar to compare anything to mate. Almost all modern movies are complete commodified trash made to squeeze money out of ideas.


>plagiarizes the moody peril that comfortably resided in Christopher Nolan’s Insomnia. Don’t forget about Sicario either, which is a shamelessly nuanced attempt to hijack the cinematic language of Michael Bay’s Bad Boys 2
Excellent bait.


But to take the critique actually seriously for a moment, Dune is just a pulp sci-fi novel with an unusual intensity of vision, it's not worth starting a religion over. I'm going to enjoy being thrilled in the cinema while chomping on some popcorn and experiencing whatever new air circulation systems the theater chain has installed in the past few months.


I don't think anybody thinks Dune is like transcendent or anything, just that it's great material for a film adaptation.


Did he really twist their religion? Wasn’t he actually this supremely powerful god which was foretold by both the bene gesserit and the fremen?


I think it is transcendent.


Basically earth in 20 years. Well the political situation at least.


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So I started reading the first book and it's alright but I looked up some plot synopses beforehand and saw some of the series spoilers and uh… it sounds like the worst kind of fanfiction (pic related). ebin fan favorite space samurai gets cloned so much the plot revolves around his clones and he becomes the new messiah I feel like I'm being trolled that this is one of the greatest science fiction series.


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And cyberpunk that was very heavy at the time.


Only the first book is good


Most of the series is trash. That’s why most people in modern day never compare it to being “LoTR for sci-fi”. Lensmen is better than every way.


pretty worried, but heh, at least they can do special effects now
shouldnt be too hard
yes, the fact he was a godlike being wasnt known at first, the bene gesserit basically just make up useful legend/religions on all planets they send their agents on, so they can be used later as political tools if needed, in a very cynical view. They don't litterally spell out their plan of ultimate messiah as religions
hard disagree, although the first one is the best by far, the serie stay good and have plenty of great plot/philo until the death of leto. i'd even say you miss a lot dune concepts if you stop at first one


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How accurate is pic related? I want to read the good shit.


>just that it's great material for a film adaptation
It really isn't. Dune is frankly too cerebral and complex to be easily adapted, which is precisely why previous attempts have fallen flat.


It's a question of does Vinille have what it takes


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Honestly I didn't find anything about it "weird", it seems like a typical 70's era scifi with LoTR level worldbuilding. Dune + Messiah are basically one book and is a must read for any scifi fan, Children is a fucking slog and NOTHING happens except the last few chapters, and Emperor is Herbert trying (and failing) to write a smarter than human character, albeit with some really fun moments along the way. I tried reading Heretics and gave up around 100 pages in, it was just more of the same and it didn't really jive with me.

If you want some real fun, just read Emperor going in blind. If you like it, go back and read the first 3, if you don't then you've just saved yourself a lot of time.


>all the sequals tital's start with the word dune
this is dumb naming


thanks OP i was thinking of making this thread but i haven't read the books


oh it was unsearchable because d u n e


>LoTR level worldbuilding
It’s nowhere near that though. LoTR in a single book established almost the entire cosmology, history of every countries, their languages, and every known norms of the genres. While Dune is just a cool universe that have a lot of things kept vague on purpose by Hebert for later fleshing out through multiple sequels. And it’s legacy is much more limited, which has only Warhammer emulating it (GW stole from everybody because it started out as satire before retards and company shills ruined it with Space Marine wank).
How else are you going bait people into buying when they explicitly knows that their author is long dead.


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>before retards and company shills ruined it with Space Marine wank
Why does so much burger Sci-Fi try to copy him?


fashoid mindset?


His work has a lot of classic libertarian themes and an idealistic look at voluntarism, something fashoids and the US military love to emulate. It’s not a surprise when his work is party mandatory reading for them.
Also lots of his protagonists are super smart, ultra competent individuals. A great way for burgers to have a power fantasy.


>has a lot of classic libertarian themes and an idealistic look at voluntarism, something fashoids and the US military love to emulate
But why? Obviously libretarianism and voluenterism are on the political right. But, their core philosophical tenates are pretty different from fascism and jongoism.


Because for Americans especially, libertarianism got completely taken over and shaped by the ruling class from the start. It’s also the first place where the term liberal becomes the definition for petit bourgeois landlords and the people subservient to them rather than left wingers.
The opposition to tax became the opposition to keeping the private interests of small time capitalists rather than the opposition to a capitalist state in general.


but militerist nationalism and total war is incompatible with a peti-bourg libretarian utopia, thier is no place for small business in world wars


> LoTR in a single book established almost the entire cosmology, history of every countries, their languages, and every known norms of the genres.
Yeah, and that one book is dedicated entirely to lore/worldbuilding. If you take out the Silmarillion, the LOTR trilogy and Dune are pretty comparable in that regard.


>Some literary critics have described Asimov's psychohistory as a reformulation of Karl Marx's theory of history (historical materialism), though Asimov denied any direct influence.[11]
The wikipedia article goes on to misinterpret hist mat, so I won't copy it. Incredible how much marxism is misinterpreted.


I was expecting a delay but October 2021 seems a bit much.


Reminds me of a depressing pamphlet “Desert” by Unknown https://theanarchistlibrary.org/library/anonymous-desert


True. That’s why in most of Heinlein’s work, war is portrayed as a constant skirmish of small proxy wars that keep to military industrial complex going. Starship troopers is that wholesale, the other is The moon is a cruel mistress where it also emphasized a long war up until they started to bombard earth with mass drivers.



Looks pretty cool and a seemingly anti-imperialist message is nice; probably the only movie I've been excited to see in like a decade. Going to start reading the novels as well; can anyone comment on how the community views the books made after the original author died (the Dune novels after the 6th).spurdoSpurdo



the same way catholics view protestants


Intense hatred and scorn to the point of starting civil wars; before gradually mellowing out over the years and retreating into academia, coupled with a grudging resignation?spurdoSpurdo


Orientalist and queer-coded white savior trash. Why does every modern scifi movie be some shitty Pocahontas rip-off?


>Why does every MODERN scifi movie be some shitty Pocahontas rip-off
Anon, I…


>white savior
ok I could see why someone would think that but
How? Does Timothee Chalamet just have a gay looking face or something?


Different anon

I think the actor they hired for Paul Atreides doesn't fit, he is supposed to have been intensely trained in personal combat from an early age, he should look like he's got more stamina.

Also the Fremen should have leathery dried out skin because they are denied enough water.


The Baron being homosexual?
Him raping male family members being Canon?
Duncan Idaho losing his shit at the Lesbian Fishspeaker orgy?
Herbert disowning his own gay son?


agree about paul
the fremen is a little harder to pull off, and unlike the harkonnens they are supposed to be approachable to the movie audience so you can't make them too weird

i don't think you understand the "coding" part of queer coding


>the fremen is a little harder to pull off, and unlike the harkonnens they are supposed to be approachable to the movie audience so you can't make them too weird
But the Fremen are very weird, they have glowing blue spice eyes as well as strangely brutal social rituals and the book spends a lot of time unraveling their mysteries, almost like they're an alien species. Dune always seemed like it played with the concept of humans that aren't entirely human anymore, that they were changed by their environments in the dune universe.


Ok, guys I'm just baiting. I fucking love Dune and I've read all six books. It's just that as a relatively old scifi novel it suffers from the prejudices of its time and I just think there has to be some kind of of discussion about that.


I have watched the IMAX preview and let me tell you that this movie is very different from what I have seen in a long time. It doesn't feel like Star Wars, Star Gate, Star Trek or whatever with its scale and its modern and otherworldly aethetics, it is going to be completely overwrite of what was regarded as 'Dune' before, no one is going to ever talk about the Lynch film ever again. This movie IS Dune now. The Guild ships, the spice harvester scene, holy shit. I really can't wait to see the whole movie.


>no one is going to ever talk about the Lynch film ever again. This movie IS Dune now.
sounds depressing to me. Honestly if it wasn't for some of the better clips I've seen the MC and his interactions reminds me of Zuko from Shyamalan's Avatar movie.


>The Duke felt in this moment that his own dearest dream was to end all class distinctions and never again think of deadly order.

Was Leto I based?



In that moment at the banquet, all the stress is going to him, I guess in the whole Aristocratic hierarchy, the atredies are pretty low, to be used and fucked over by the Harkonnens and the Emperor.

He sees how an end to class society could potentially alleviate his social ills and how he lives, all the important people he has to schmooze with, the expectations people have of him, etc…

At the end of the day at an individual level, it seemed to me Leto really loves his family and wishes Jessica was his wife.

Maybe the life of dukedom was never for him.


>the atredies are pretty low

But he was very popular and the other houses were looking up to him, I mean getting sent to Atreides was basically him getting exiled by the Emperor.



He is the perfect example of a good person in an evil system who cannot make changes due to the powerlessness of individuals-even powerful ones like nobility


>I mean getting sent to Atreides was basically him getting exiled by the Emperor
Not exactly. Arrakis is the only place where spice exists, to be governor of Arrakis is a big deal, cause you can make a lot of money and become prestigious. The Emperor sent him into a trap, to be killed by the Harkonnens. Leto is actually aware that this is a possibility, but denying the emperor would be tantamount to mutiny and it'd give the Emperor an excuse to destroy his house. So he has to go, hoping his guards and protection he had would be enough. But it turned out House Atreides had a traitor working for the Harkonnens very close to the Duke. Emperor even sent two legions of Sardaukar to fight in Harkonnen uniforms against Leto. So basically it all seemed like a House fighting another House, and the Emperor actually "helping" Duke Leto by giving him rule over a coveted planet.


Leto knows his standing with the other noble houses is an illusion and that none of them would lift a finger to help him if attacked.


So they won't be delaying this again even if covid gets really bad, right? They'll just release it on streaming I guess. Which will basically condemn it to not getting the 2nd part made.


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Dune 2 is in the bag boys.


Just bought an IMAX ticket for Monday. Stoked. Going for the afternoon matinee, when I was buying the ticket the theatre was empty, only 7 seats taken so far. It's gonna be maximum comfy.


Will we see Timothy Charlemagne's ass?


I think the pacing is too fast, but it is good.



Who the fuck cares if the author was a conservative or not. Tolkien was a conservative however his work never gets put under so much scrutiny even though its dogwhistles are much more on the nose than in Dune. Jacobin goes full clown show here:
<It’s a guilty pleasure for the more radical left, and there’s no shame in that. Nobody longs for a return to a hackneyed, bland socialist realism.
I'm glad Jacobin allows me to consume "problematic" fantasy and sci-fi, thanks Jacobin. And then out of nowhere making the jump to fucking socialist realism, are they fucking serious?




And bullyboys

Increase before

Each fall into darkness.


Just saw it. It was alright. As another anon said, it has problems with pacing, at times it seems very rushed and like the director just wants us to get to a certain point. As if someone is giving you a quick rundown on context before they tell you a story. That is its biggest flaw.

Some complaints and nitpicks:
>everyone wears black, both Atreides and Harkonnen. Harkonnens should be red, and the Baron should be wearing red, not black
>I don't like how agency is taken away from Paul. I can remember three instances of it. 1) in the pain test, it is Lady Jessica who recites the litany of fear, not Paul. 2) when Stilgar spits in front of the Duke (at the wrong point in the discussion, I might add), it is Duncan, not Paul who recognises the gesture and says thank you. They all spat, which was pretty stupid I thought. 3) when flying through the storm, Paul hears The Reverend Mother's voice tell him to "let go", after which he lets go of the controls, turns off the engine and goes to sleep. In the book, they go through it, thanks to his skills, plus effects of spice on his already sensitive mind.
>should have spent more time on exposition of Arrakis, and show how wasteful the Palace and outsiders are, not just reduce it to a "they oppress us monologue" at the beginning of the movie.
>not enough exposition of Paul's struggle within him.
>Kynes (casting choice was fine) gets killed by three Sardaukar, instead of being left in the desert. That monologue he has in his thoughts before he dies should have been included.
>when Sardaukar attacked the palace on Arrakis, they weren't wearing Harkonnen uniform, but Sardaukar uniform
>Princess Irulan subplot is completely left out, unless they're gonna do flashbacks in the 2nd movie
>Paul doesn't have an arc, really, neither do we feel "the fall" of Atreides because we don't really know how big they were. There's a throwaway line by Leto where he says "other houses look up to us", but we don't really see them settle in and rule Arrakis, it just seems that as soon as they get there, they're betrayed and attacked

overall 7/10


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>fast forward to year 2020
>the "gayest" US presidential candidate is also a bureaucrat and most likely works with the CIA


<another shit article complaining about "muh conservatives"
They've completely dropped the mask and are full retard radlibs tody.


I agree. It should have been 3 hours.
And another thing. Jessica is fucking crying almost all the duration of the movie. I don't remember Jessica from the book like that but maybe I am wrong.


Sounds like it should have been a miniseries.


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>rereading dune
>mainlining the Dune Messiah audiobook
>busting nuts to Behind the Dune
>reciting the litany against fear
>smoking weed laced with cinnamon and DMT
>recycling all my body fluids
how are you preparing for Dune?


how would Dune be different if a communist wrote it I wonder


RadLibs unironically believe that race-swapping Marvel protagonists is subversion or deconstructs white savior tropes and not what Dune is doing.


progress is when you signal that black people and women can only play roles if a white man does it first


Saw it yesterday. I liked it, surprisingly.
No naked Timothee, unfortunately.
Aesthetics on point. I saw the lynch movie and miniseries before this (many years ago), haven't read the book, but I generally agree with anon's points here >>19703
Some things it could have improved, other things it got right. The movie ends half way through the story compared to the miniseries.


Say what you want about the aesthetics but the ornitopters were fucking amazing.


So it's been a while since I've seen it and now that the dust has settled I have to say I really really liked the movie. Has the potential to become an absolute classic.


Are you aware of Hamilton by Lin Manuel Miranda or some shit.
It recuperates WHITE MALE american history and makes it woke. The founding fathers are reimagined as slave-owning PoC.


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>No naked Timothee, unfortunately.
We'll just have to wait for Wonka I guess.


The fremen do not look down on the women of their tribe what are you talking about? Gender bending the imperial planetologist turned fremen leader doesn’t change anything of the character in any way. Liet Kynes character essential nature wasn’t his manhood but his scientific dedication to the fremen and the planet Arrakis.


It’s essentially a cautious tale on political/religious/philosophical leaders. That’s the true essence of the Dune sage from Dune to Heretics of Dune. The main character isn’t even supposed to be a “good guy”. He’s a subject who’s been thrust into something he didn’t want to be a part of and by the end became a vengeful, hateful, blood thirty leader who wanted nothing but violence done against his enemies. The personal journey of Paul is a good kid who becomes a cold hearted and brutal religious leader.


I wouldn’t say Herbert was particularly an economic libertarian but he definitely had a massive distrust of governments. He was very much an environmentalist and a humanist I’m willing to bet; he would’ve made a good communist, maybe not of any Stalinist or statist kind.


He suffered from cold-war brain unfortunately


There’s no proof of this? I mean he has an interview where he calls Nixon his favorite president for revealing to the American public the corruption of the nation that was already there. It’s kind of like someone who would say today that they like trump because trump just openly shows how big of a shit America is to Americans.


I mean, he named the villian Vladimir Harkonnen because be thought it sounded Soviet.


Source? Also he was writing to an American audience in the 60s.


BBC misses the mark
>here is a scale to Denis Villeneuve's Dune that borders on the biblical. Monolithic spaceships hang like moons in the heavens. Worms the size of skyscrapers swim like sharks through the desert. Extreme wide shots frame the barren planet of Arrakis as a vast unknowable ocean of sand, its dunes fluttering in the wind like waves. And yet it is not only size that makes Dune one of the most striking science-fiction films of recent years. It is how it marries that grandeur with slow, atmospheric and considered filmmaking – where shots live long, and scenes breathe freely.
I think the writer just wanted to write that kind of article. I was myself ready to have that opinion because I liked Arrival. But Dune just fell flat.


IIRC the Harkonnens are of German descent.


I liked Dune better than Arrival because of the idealist kumbaya ending of Arrival. What a liberal movie.

Herbert thought that the name "sounded Soviet" at first but then in the official canon they go back to a Finnish noble family.


Sorry, I didn't mean to imply that he was a total boomer-brained war hawk. He opposed the Vietnam War and McCarthyism after all. I just meant to say that he wasn't a socialist because he was a product of his time which was the Cold War.


I liked the movie, I liked the aesthetic. My favorite scene is the sand crawler one but there is something about it that is lacking, I can't really put it into words, maybe it's because I read the book and have been 'spoiled' but there is a certain lack of tension, a true build up to the story arc. The audience doesn't learn the actual intentions of many characters or only as retroactive justification. It's really difficult to express. Still above average but there is something missing for it to be a masterpiece or something.


One of the largest issues with trying to translate book to film. The thrones series could do the perspective thing because the series translated well the character chapters of the books. But as regards Dune, this is a book where the internal dialogue is extremely essential in understanding characters and character motivation.


I know, like the betrayal just happens like most things in the movie. There are no hints, build up or tension arc. It's not clear what the Bene Gesserit are about, they are just some kind of prop. Like many things just felt like props and background aesthetic without explaining their importance to the overall story. You don't have to go into detail about every personality but when it pertained to the factions I found it lacking.


>the idealist kumbaya ending of Arrival. What a liberal movie.
First off, the movie was refreshing because for once Chinese people weren't the "bad guys", but in fact come out looking positive because they offer to exchange knowledge first. The "bad guys" were the white, Conservative Americans radicalised by TV personalities. I don't know what's liberal about it, because the only politics that are in the movie are internationalism and rejection of the capitalist "military mindset". After all, it is a sci-fi movie whose message is that worldwide cooperation to achieve a goal that is beyond our current understanding is a noble goal. This is antithetical to capitalism because there is no profit or benefit to helping an alien race 3000 years into the future.


You are reaching


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How are you watching it? Only the cam version is available.


It came out in Europe Ike a month ago, dud


kinogo.la has most movies the moment they come out (or even earlier sometimes) in HD


Everywhere it’s cam


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>this is dumb naming
Strange way of spelling "good branding". :-/

>space marines
Is not a question about IF but WHEN we'll see them. What I really liked about the Sardaukar was the scene where they silently inserts using anti-grav. Not the same thing as in the Dune-games where they are basically walking tanks.

I really like the E S T H E T I C S, and the wire from the rocket launcer to the breastplate is cute. Cute but probably useless.

But unless you really get the drop of someone and manages to hit ALL your targets AT ONCE, you're pretty much a walking target for a marksman with a 50-cal.

Also, does anyone please have a link to the sacrifical scene in DUNC?

You could substitute it with "Culture is for a man what maternity is for a woman." When a woman becomes a mother, her place in society is pretty much set. Men have no equivalent to maternity, so therefore they must constantly strive for something.


>agree about paul
>the fremen is a little harder to pull off, and unlike the harkonnens they are supposed to be approachable to the movie audience so you can't make them too weird
I lost it when they looked like some kind of corpo instant diversity starting pack. Yeah, those in the cities and the fremens in the desert could very well look different. But then it would be two discrete groups with a relative homogenization. What we saw here was something like "all people that have darker skin than a brown paper bag are all the same".


just saw it in burger theaters, my thoughts

>david lynch btfoed

>i love the quebecfag
>sound design was amazing
>the movie looked incredible
>I want to have sex with zendaya
>a lot of stuff was cut from the book, but nothing that was cut was vital
>scenes and moments that were added all fit in very seamlessly, especially with the art direction
>kynes gender swap wasn't important because the character was cut back so much anyway
>mamoa death scene was cool
>orinthropters were great
I will be majorly ass blasted if there is no part 2


What happened with the music? Everything else in the movie looked great and all the sound design was fantastic. For some reason the music was really generic and forgettable.



I wanna fuck zendaya so bad


Are you kidding me? This is cam? https://kinogo.la/27541-dune2022.html


lol yeah they did spell it dunc


Remember that there’s a lot of “analog” in Dune because of the Butlerian Jihad.


Even if they gave Liet Kynes the same attention as the books, that character still didn’t have its gender as an essential attribute. The essence of Kynes is their devotion to the Fremen and their dedication to the ecology of Arrakis.


Paul is literally described as quite thin in the books. Both Timothee and the actor for Dune 1984 looked as Paul should look but the 1984 one looked more like a guy in his twenties unlike Timothee who more appropriately looks like a teenager.


>The Baron being homosexual?


The Atreides are literally one of the more powerful and “popular” houses, not only in the books but the movie. The Duke Atreides is literally a Duke, the highest of the noble ranks.


>Paul is literally described as quite thin in the books.
post quotes


check top result for pirate bay


Lynch Dune is more based than the books.




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How the fuck do you take something as unique and interesting as Dune and make it feel like a cookie cutter Hollywood movie?
It sucked.
>no room for characters to breathe or get established
>seriously most of them get introduced and then die without more than a few lines
>not one of the story beats felt like it landed because the pacing is so rushed there's no time to properly set anything up
>you've heard of trimming the fat, but here they trim out the organs, skin, and most of the muscle leaving just bones and sinew
>it feels like you're watching a generic "second act where everything goes wrong" movie in a trilogy except without the first movie to set everything up and establish it
>worldbuilding barely exists, almost exclusively pointless cameos to be "I KNOW WHAT THAT IS!" moments for book readers
>the worldbuilding that's there is bland exposition, like some nerd telling you about how cool the world of Dune is
>some of the most important/unique concepts don't even get glossed over and go unmentioned, like the Butlerian Jihad (which probably makes the technology level seem confusing to the average audience)
>art direction is the most phoned-in embarrassing shit I've ever seen, like the designs for everything was filtered through several layers of studio executives telling them to make it more familiar to movie audiences
>The technology looks more like what average scifi would show for the 2100s not the 10100s
>The TV miniseries version is unironically less bland with design
>tries to hard to do the "dingy and used" look from classic Star Wars but applies it to things that shouldn't look like that, like Caladan (even Star Wars is better at this, compare Tattooine to Cloud City or the Death Star)
>action scenes are pretty much incomprehensible between the quick cuts, wild swinging, and flashing shields
>CGI shitfest in general. To be expected these days but if you can show us anything you want and you're making DUNE at least make it interesting. This is almost how I would expect Chris Nolan to make Dune. Actually it's worse.
>BORING cinematography for most of the film, only a few shots felt like they had careful thought put in, and they were almost all in the trailer
>none of the sequences felt like they were planned out well, or like too much had to be cut for time
>Paul's emotional low point breaking down in the tent has a really awkward cut that causes a continuity slip-up with the actor's facial expression and emotional state and it feels like a chunk of the scene was just chopped out
>rated PG-13 and boy does it show when they have to pointedly take the camera away exactly at the moments when seeing the violence would give the scene the weight it needs
>Dialogue feels too contemporary. It's almost Joss Whedon territory with the way they handle humor.
>performances are serviceable at best, but a few characters feel like the actors haven't quite grasped the characters and are just trying to read their lines with the right emotions *cough* Duke Leto *cough*
>In an unusual turn for him, even Hans Zimmer phoned in the score, and instead of something over-the-top or with a really memorable gimmick (the wailing woman thing is so overplayed), he just didn't fucking bother to score some of the most important moments at all and they're just awkwardly quiet. They don't even muffle the sound effects for dramatic silence – you hear the natural sound in the scene being all un-cinematic and it feels like you're watching a behind the scenes or something unfinished.
>ends on genuinely the most hackneyed shit I've ever seen in my fucking life, Chani literally turns to the camera and says "This is just the beginning" as Paul, Jessica, and the Fremen walk into the desert sunset.
Fucking embarrassing cringe adaptation tbh.
I watched this for free and I want my time back.
This material needs to be a miniseries format to even begin to do it justice.
Everyone saying it's good is higher on copium than the navigators are on spice.
It's not as bad as Suicide Squad but they should do the same thing and reboot this immediately with different people in charge, but this time as a miniseries.


>water-fat off worlder shows up in our thread
I will take your water for sietch Quebec


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You have some points there if you watch that movie without having read the book before, it would be confusing why there are no computers, why they exclusively fight with melee weapons. And you are also right that it would take a mini series to get in all the world and character building in. But they kinda did get the Duncan character right, and they really nailed the ornithopters. And they showed how high frequency vibrations can liquefy sand, and that made a believable worm scene for the first time.


is this story an allegory for british imperialism lol?

did frank read hegel?


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you can have my piss bro

>But they kinda did get the Duncan character right, and they really nailed the ornithopters. And they showed how high frequency vibrations can liquefy sand, and that made a believable worm scene for the first time.
These are mostly true but they don't negate any of the problems.
Duncan like everyone didn't get enough time to properly establish his character. It felt like Jason Momoa shot his part in 2 weeks. What was there was fine and most of getting him right was the casting choice.
The method the Ornithopters use to fly is the right way to do it, but they're said to fly like dragonflies not to be dragonflies. They're described as being insect-like IIRC which seems pointedly different and implies that they don't look like dragonflies. Designing them as dragonflies is the laziest way to interpret them. IMO it's the best design in the film and still a great example of how uninspired everything is.
Yeah the sand effects look cool but it's the kind of stuff you can see from kids messing around in Blender. You mostly see that with isolated pockets where the characters are standing. I was expecting them to do bigger set pieces with sand considering the scale of the worms, but I guess they just didn't have the budget to run a computationally expensive physics simulation.

>but it was believable this time

This is what I mean by copium. The whole movie felt like checking boxes. They technically made a Dune movie and the effects looked real/convincing (as if that's an achievement lol). It's just lacking any of the inspirational elements or effort that you would expect from somebody adapting the story out of some artistic drive. It's unfair to compare to Jodorowski but he's a good example of somebody who wants to do it for the art and tries to make it unique. This feels like they did it for the money and tried to make it acceptable. It feels very standard and of its time, which is fine for some science fiction, but not appropriate for this. Hell, look at the color grading on the shots you posted. This is such a boring contemporary thing to do: make the whole shot one color. It might work for Arrakis, but that Caladan scene isn't under the sea. It's just overcast. Why does the forest look blue? They could have at least darkened it to give the shot more contrast. This is the same director who did Blade Runner 2049.

And still this is without rehashing the flaws. This is just a fundamental problem with the approach they took to the film.

>is this story an allegory for british imperialism lol?
yes, overtly (although there's more going on)
>did frank read hegel?
IDK, doubt it


>The personal journey of Paul is a good kid who becomes a cold hearted and brutal religious leader
also, a cynical, depressed, broken man
and also, how even with basically omniscient super power, he isnt able to fix shit because
1. on some level its not possible, things like the jihad cant be stopped without causing even worse shit, because the universe is so complex even a great man with a cheat code apparently cant solve everything
2. he just doesnt have the shoulders for it, and cope out to let his children bite the bullet for him and have to do the dirty work for tens of thousands of years

>he definitely had a massive distrust of governments

I mean, he also recognize their power, necessity and usefulness. The bene gesserit are pretty funny on that front ; nobody trust them, yet nobody can do without, and a lot of the best characters work for them


>is this story an allegory for british imperialism lol?
yes, spice could be considered literally as spice from India or figuratively as oil. Considering it is required for certain types of space travel, yet also consumed as a drug would be, you could say spice is a stand in for both.
>did frank read hegel?
Maybe, but you can obviously see the resemblance between the muadib and the ubermensch.


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the offworlder bookfag is a face dancer, do not fall for his tleilaxu tricks
denis is loyal fedaykin


>because the universe is so complex even a great man with a cheat code
One of my favorite things about Frank is how he wasn’t about that “great man” bullshit. People make history, as you said, the Bene Gesserit and the spacing guild and the entire Landsraad and as well as the many common folk, not “great men”. It was inevitable that with a planet like Arrakis, and it’s peoples and how important the spice is in the universe and of course their religion, that eventually the planet would elevate itself beyond the house that controlled it; quite literally, the productive forces were stronger than any other crap. The religious jihad was only as excuse for what was pretty much a class struggle of the Fremen.


Nick Land approves.


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>multiple dimensions of awesomeness


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>Worker of Arakis: Seize the spice factories !
Spoiler ahead:
The fremen don't do that, they release the water that they have captured with wind traps and turn their desert planet into a green planet, all the worms die, and spice production stops. The trading guild who has monopolized FTL drive, collapses because their navigators can't function with out spice, and the empire disappears.


The Dune imperium would get wiped the fuck out by any spacefaring civ that wasn't scared of using computers and ranged weapons


Well you can see the way the Imperium of Man in WH40k struggles against a much smaller empire like the Tau because they are spooked by advanced technology. However, similar to WH40K, they would probably still use some of the more advanced technology from before the Butlerian Jihad, they probably just don't know how it works. So once you smash their advanced tech from before, they are screwed.


Embedding error.
I'm really glad the recent film revived this thread.

Vid related is an excellent comparison of the 2000s and 1984 version of the films with English CC, by Red Cynic.


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Absolute KINO


>Imperium of Man in WH40k struggles against a much smaller empire like the Tau because they are spooked by advanced
I mean, sure. But more important reasons as to why the IoM hasn't completely genocided the Tau would be the former's never ending existential struggle against much more threatening foes


The class struggle is still correct, but I never said they necessarily seize the means of production.


po-tay-to po-tah-to
Maybe preserving the spice is a better option, but the desert an the worms are where the spice comes from. So while they don't seize the mechanical MoP they are controlling the original source and doing what they choose with it.
Also a based example of the relationship between base and superstructure.


finally finished it. fell asleep in the middle. Felt like I was watching the first half of lynch dune in slow motion with worse actors and a bigger budget.

I've been reading a bit of lore and can't help but think Jodorowsky was right. Some comments about how the lack of psychedelia in villinovo misses Herberts real point and that he was blatently into mysticism and gnostic kabbalah. Makes me feel like Lynch was actually on the right path by adding the weird voice guns and a lot(most) of sci-fi oriented dune fans actually don't get it. Kind of having a Starship Troopers moment.


>ne of my favorite things about Frank is how he wasn’t about that “great man” bullshit.
Can you explain this? Just because he says great men are bad doesn't mean he doesn't think history revolves around the actions of individual choices.

>Bene Gesserit

>matriarchal secret society that controls history from the shadows and invented messianic religion to manipulate the empire
how is this not blatantly anti-semitic.
>inb4 yeah but chapterhouse
nah he added late in his life as insurance against the claim


>>20666 (Hail Satan)
It's Dune made for today's generic sci fi audience. One of the worst things about it was how straightforward the visuals were. No interesting camera work. Nothing unusual done with the visual effects. The religious and psychedelic components are almost completely absent from this version. We'll see what part two looks like, though.


>One of the worst things about it was how straightforward the visuals were.
I don't know, they looked exactly how I imagined it when reading the book. If there is anything the movie did right it was the visuals. I am not a cinematography nerd so I don't know about the camera angles.


Someone said that this movie is "every frame a painting" and I'm like yeah I guess so if you mean a digital painting. I usually associate that with renaissance art idk. It felt like Batman.


Denny Veenoo is starting to feel really gimmicky with the cinematography, especially those "wide landscape with a random humongous thing slightly off-center" shots.
>Someone said that this movie is "every frame a painting"
Someone should remember that film and painting are different mediums, one of the key differences being the frame in film has all sorts of movement at its disposal. The camera in this film barely moves at all, and you literally never see any tilting, zooming, or other effects that could help convey the scale or shape of things better than a (mostly or completely) static shot. It's called a move-ie for a reason. I came to watch moving pictures not an art gallery.

>I don't know, they looked exactly how I imagined it when reading the book.
Hence "straightforward." For something like Dune they should have got more creative. Like >>20666 said Jodorowsky had the right idea.
>I am not a cinematography nerd so I don't know about the camera angles.
Not going to try to explain how all of it works but the gist is that they barely used any of the techniques available and stuck to a pretty limited set of looks. It's a bit like they wanted to make sure that in most shots you could clearly see the set and the actors clearly and sacrificed expressive or engaging camera work for the effect of looking at a (scenery) painting.


>Someone should remember that film and painting are different mediums, one of the key differences being the frame in film has all sorts of movement at its disposal. The camera in this film barely moves at all, and you literally never see any tilting, zooming, or other effects that could help convey the scale or shape of things better than a (mostly or completely) static shot. It's called a move-ie for a reason. I came to watch moving pictures not an art gallery.

>Not going to try to explain how all of it works but the gist is that they barely used any of the techniques available and stuck to a pretty limited set of looks. It's a bit like they wanted to make sure that in most shots you could clearly see the set and the actors clearly and sacrificed expressive or engaging camera work for the effect of looking at a (scenery) painting.

This sounds like Magic Realism, which I like. I assume it's not everybody's thing. But "The Underground Railroad" used a similar technique too and I loved that.


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giving me flashback to CGI Legolas bullshit


>is this story an allegory for british imperialism lol?
No, it's an allegory for Russian imperialism in the Caucasus: https://lareviewofbooks.org/article/the-secret-history-of-dune/


I think any filmmaker who takes influence from Terrence Malick should be taken out back and shot (and by "any filmmaker" I mean Christopher Nolan and Denis Villeneuve specifically). With that out of the way, I watched Dune 2021 last night and thought it was just okay. I liked the ornithopter designs and Duncan Idaho's escape sequence. Most of it is visually uninteresting, and this is coming from someone who likes watching paint dry. If I had to give it a rating, it'd be a 2/5.


>tries to hard to do the "dingy and used" look from classic Star Wars but applies it to things that shouldn't look like that, like Caladan (even Star Wars is better at this, compare Tattooine to Cloud City or the Death Star)
>Denny Veenoo is starting to feel really gimmicky with the cinematography, especially those "wide landscape with a random humongous thing slightly off-center" shots.
Denis Villeneuve's 'best' films (Prisoners, Sicario, Blade Runner: 2049) all had Roger Deakins on as his cinematographer. You know who he had on for Dune 2021? Greig Fraser, who's primarily known for his work on Rogue One.


Are you still thinking about Dune?


Nope; entirely forgettable film.


The movie makes me want to go read the books just to cleanse my palate.


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Kek the smiling edits always make me laugh



>Bene Gesserit
>it's da joooooos
this is in your head, it's not in the Dune novels
I read these novels, they don't contain any 1to1 allegories


Didn't know the Jews colonized entire people groups for colonization. In fact I didn't know Jews missionized at all. Thanks fir teaching me.



The Bene Gesserit are more like a Catholic church order.


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Dune is literally canceling the Marvel franchise.


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>a rather average adaptation of a sci-fi novel that's obscure in the mainstream is in such a high demand that it causes capeshit premieres to get cancelled for more screenings of it
Based as fuck, what can I say. Now if only Petroglyph could get a chance to make another Dune RTS, it would probably be one of the most glorious things to come out of this shitty decade.


Bene Gesserits can be compared to the spratan wives, vest virgins, or Catholic nuns. Maybe all 3.


>Gurney not edited
double kek
Slightly surprised they announced it this early. Would have expected them to keep a lid on to encourage more people to go to theaters on the "they will only make part 2 if there's enough demand!" logic
But I think Brolin already blabbed about starting principal photography next summer so it this was already known.

wtf I love Denny's Venue now




>Gurney not edited
What do you mean? He's also smiling.


He was already smiling in the original.


ah true


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wait he's actually doing the virgin walk lmao


Okay so that track from the trailer has been stuck in my head for literally over a year now it is killing me.


It was lightyears better than any music in the actual film, as some of the lines in the trailer which were at times wildly different from the film.

At this point trailers are a more developed form of art than movies. If you think about it, it's almost like the trailer is the real movie that you consume. Because you see the trailer and that's what convinces you to pay. Past that point the movie just has to exist and contain what the trailer shows so people don't cry foul and demand their money back. Trailers are a highly developed medium that's refined by psychologists and shit to maximize their effectiveness. It shouldn't be surprising that they are catchy and stick in your head. That's the point and the process has become extremely refined.

Going back and rewatching that trailer has made me realize that like many other recent movies, the trailer is actually a better piece of entertainment than the film. It's also pretty much a complete but condensed version. It handles the tension and payoff better, and you get practically the same level of characterization for everyone that you get in the actual movie (other than Kynes and Yueh who barely appear and Jessica who actually has some depth that's not in the trailer). They even blew their load by showing most of the worm scenes in the first trailer. The bones of the plot are all right there. It's not even a teaser, just a more compact and tightly paced version of the film. It's even got a bigger share of its running time devoted to characterization.

Imagine if movies actually made good on the experience the trailer promised.


There is some Adorno-Derrida style Capitalist critique in here and if I wasn a booklet I would better at vocalizing it but yeah you are right.


Speaking of lightyears and ebin trailer music covering a popular song for a scifi movie trailer…
Here comes a more visually interesting science fiction movie using infinitely weaker source material.
Is it a coincidence that this trailer dropped right after Dune's opening weekend in the US?
Maybe the upshot of the movie is that it encourages more space fiction.


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I know for a fact you’ve never read the books.


Capeshit except it’s buzzlightyear and it’s as “visually interesting” as a Michael bay shit storm of a film with loud music that copies some shots of Interstellar, a complete dogshit movie, uninspired and more Disney crap that steals shit from other movies and tries to “woo” retards with bright lights and le epic ship taking off. It’s basically stale capeshit, if that’s your idea of good then I’m sure any of your taste in movies is worth listening to lmao.


> if that’s your idea of good
no no no
not good
better than this shitty adaptation of Dune


Okay, so I just watched the New Dune last night and… I don't know, it felt really uninspired to be honest. If anything, the best way I can describe it is this - unecessary. It literally doesn't do anything better than Lynch Dune in terms of story telling appart from adding more bloat. So much bloat in fact that it had to be fucking split into two movies. It feels very Srar Wars E9 to me, where it seemed that the director decided to listen to the advice of the retarded YouTube film "critics" that rant about muh logic. This time specifically to those who shat on Lynch Dune because "it wuz confuzang" or "duzn't maek sens to me" and "lmao wut iz habbenin in dis zene". Idk, maybe I am just a transcendat being, but Lynch Dune when I watched it a few years back, made perfect sense, even though I had no prior context of what Dune series were. The new one just adds in a ton of unneeded crap where characters repeat ten times that "emperor is playing us", "Harkonens will attack", "you are the chosen one" and so on, which just makes it tedious. The only good thing it really did was the tent scene where Paul actually gets a glimpse of the future and we see the "oh shit, my life is fucked and I will become a monster" side of his character


The movie is absolutely fantastic. How can you compare it to Star Wars let alone to the sequel trilogy? It has superb acting, great consistency, outstanding cinematography and audio etc. meanwhile it is also loyal to the source material.


Everything in this post is wrong, like the complete opposite is true in every aspect, lmao

>literally doesn't do anything better than Lynch Dune in terms of story telling appart from adding more bloat.

Except for casting better actors, being more faithful to the book, not adding some shitty gimmicks, having better special effects and cinematography and having a coherent movie plot. The Lynch movie is fucking trash, he even said so himself but yeah if like 20 minutes of diffuse Wizard of Oz style monologs followed by 10 minutes of people standing in a room telling each other to shut up and be silent while wearing shitty costumes then I guess the Lynch movie is for you.

>The only good thing it really did was the tent scene where Paul actually gets a glimpse of the future and we see the "oh shit, my life is fucked and I will become a monster" side of his character

So you compare Dune to Star Wars yet the scene you liked the most is the one that is the closest to a Disney/Marvel-tier battle scene which only gets a pass (from my side at least) because it's literally supposed to be a. surreal nightmare scene.).


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So from the leaks we know that they shot parts of at least the following scenes but cut them.

-Duncan arriving and descending on Dune
-Yueh giving Paul an Orange Catholic Bible
-Yueh talking to Jessica about his wife
-The Banquet scene

There really needs to be an extended version of the movie. I think the Yueh scenes being cut, especially the one that supports Yueh's/Jessica's friendship and gives background on his wife hurt the most.


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They also cut the Baliset scene


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From the trailer vs the film we also know they shot different versions of some scenes, like the gom jabbar one has different lines and Timothee plays it differently when his hand's in the box.
>Do you often dream things that happen just as you dreamed them?
>[pause] Yes. Not exactly.
>What's in the box?

It's likely that a director's cut would significantly expand a lot of the movie. It's pretty obvious they were cutting things for time and some scenes just feel rushed or even incomplete.


>trailer I watched is totally awesome look at da bright lights
Capeshit brain rot when you think trailers represent the whole film because that’s what capeshit trailers do entice you with bright shit and explosions

Good job you are a capeshitter, hence capeshit opinions are nonsense.


What I wanted to see is more of Thufir, Liet, and Yueh. Those three have big parts to play especially in the first half of the book. Paul’s section, or at least when it truly focuses on him is mostly in the second half when he’s in the desert with his mom. There HAS to be a directors cut, because the film definitely felt like the studio wanted to cut some of the extra character stuff in favor of the plot moving.


>So you compare Dune to Star Wars yet the scene you liked the most is the one that is the closest to a Disney/Marvel-tier battle scene which only gets a pass (from my side at least) because it's literally supposed to be a. surreal nightmare scene.).

This only proves to me the zoomer capeshit brainrot here.


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You are just coping with the fact that a glorified toy commercial shat out by disney will probably have better visuals and more imagination (among other things like better pacing) than a huge budget blockbuster adapting a seminal science fiction novel with a bunch of talented people, likely because the studio wanted to keep it unchallenging for the normie audience.
>uninspired, copies appealing shots from other movies
Which is still better than the fucking NOTHING we got in Dune.
The real cringe is expecting anything of value from hollywood. It's all consoomer trash and it's more appropriate for them to make cash-in toy advertisements than to try adapting something actually good. Don't try to make the industry something it isn't.
I have no expectation that Denny will do anything interesting with the juicier second half of the book (or if they do a 3rd movie like he wants to), even though this movie should in theory have bought a lot of goodwill from the studio.

The only thing outstanding about the movie is the source material.

Notably almost all the political intrigue is completely absent.
Instead we get shit like Gurney and the Baron growling shit like "tHeY'rE nOt HuMaN tHeY'rE bRuTaL" and "KiLl ThEm AlL"
The adult characters get very little time or respect other than mom and dad because they want the zoomer audience to watch for Timothee and Zendaya (who is herself in the movie for about 2 minutes of screentime).



I'd like to retract my statement that Lynch Dune is better. This opinion is too popular on twitter and I must remain controversial and unique. Thanks for understanding.


Hope we get 12 hours or something like LoTR


Second Jacobin article on Dune, much more favorable than the previous white savior/orientalism one



kek nice webm

Kino scenes:
>Anything with the Sardaukar
>Anytime the Atreides house theme played
Cringe scenes:
>Mapes(?) screaming when handing Jessica the knife
seriously wtf was that I know it's in the book since I just read the first one recently but that's something that could have been taken out
>Chani's perfume commercials
literally doing nothing but filling space and showing off her hair and smile it was so pointless. once is ok but then they do it 10x more throughout the movie.
>Anytime Jessica cries
She's much weaker in the movie than she's portrayed in the book. In the book she's extremely focused and inner turmoil is quickly buried but here she breaks into tears every 5 minutes it was extremely disconcerting.

Everything else was kind of average. Not especially terrible but not amazing either.
Overall verdict: 7/10 mostly due to how well Denis managed to adapt the un-adaptable. I'm glad we didn't get Princess Irulan as a voiceover spoiling everything since that would be super cringe as well.


It's especially funny because the dream version of her is all ethereal and mystical and the real version is just like "niqqa you bout to die, here's a knife lol"
Yeah I feel like this is one of those things where in order for a woman to be "sympathetic" to the audience (in the producers' mind) she has to have the temperament of a child. It's a lot funnier because no other female character is like this. It might also just be for the really stupid audience who can't put two and two together
>gom jabbar scene
>Jessica establishes that she knows exactly who this is and why she's here
>it's explained to the audience exactly what's going on and the danger Paul is in
>Paul is suitably unnerved by the whole thing
>keep cutting to jessica outside, practically having a mental breakdown so you know you're supposed to be scared
>afterward Jessica talks about how it was unnecessary, establishing she understood what was happening
But oh no the audience might not understand the scene or her emotional state if you don't make it as obvious as possible. You can't just have her standing there acting stoic and reciting the litany (which by itself should make it clear how someone's feeling). No, she must be hyperventilating and on the verge of tears because the audience is dumb and she's a whamen with powerful emotions, so she can't be more stoic than Paul (a literal teenager an inch away from dying while under physical duress). Can we have even a couple minutes of ambiguity about how Jessica feels toward Paul? Can we trust the audience to handle that? No, the audience is too dumb. Forget that in like the next scene we get an on the nose explanation about what her feelings about him are and how that relates to the Bene Geserit's plans. We can't allow any tension in this 2 and a half our film. We need to telegraph exactly what's going on at all times.


Another cut scene


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a chapman stick?


The film never even says the word "mentat" or Piter's name.


What is there to cope about lol you’re the one coping with the fact that you enjoy capeshit and Disney shit and have no mind for art direction, filmmaking or cinematography. You’re kind of like those “people” that wanted the snyder cut and think Snyder is some film connoisseur. Fucking kek it’s the funniest shit.


Lol you just gave me an idea to blend all of Jessica's crying scenes into a short vid along with the credits and title screen while labeling it Dune.mp4.
The seething would be hilarious unfortunately I don't have yt might drop it on bilibili to see what the chinks think.


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yeah same energy as this lmao


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<"You've never met Harkonnens before. They're BRUUUUGHTUL"
>let's shoot this from an side where you can't see the scar he got from fighting Harkonnens, you know something that might give a visual hint why he feels this way
Bravo Denny


Despite being the baddies the Harkonnen aren't even brutal.
>Quickly kill all their enemies through swords/knives/bombs
>Technically holds true to all deals they make (in the letter but not the spirit lol)
>Supposedly oppress the Freman but the Freman are retards who will initiate random death duels for no reason at all and if left unchecked will start a galaxy wide jihad so who cares
>Allows the Duke to have his final words and speech out of respect
Besides being fat/ugly and dressing in all edgelord black is there a single thing the Harkonnens do that is particularly terrible? No.
Even executing Atreides prisoners makes sense because holy shit have you seen how loyal they are? One guy shouts Atreides and these NPCs will repeat it for a full minute; you don't leave zealots like that running around in your base even if they are prisoners.


Oh and I forgot to point out that technically it was House Atreides which violated civilized conduct first because the Duke unleashes a chemical bioweapon with his last breath against civilian noncombatants like Piter (the Harkonnen mentat/advisor guy) lol. Even the Sardaukar are more brutal than the Harkonnens (by the way did you see how the Harkonnen soldiers stood by passively and allowed the final Atreides line fighting on the stairs to have a 1v1 fair shot against the Sardaukar? If they were so brutal they would have just committed to the pincer and cut them down from behind when the Atreides line turned).


tl;dr if you think about it House Atreides are actually the villians for colonizing Harkonnen territory and if Jessica wasn't crying for 80% of the movie making you feel bad for them you wouldn't be rooting for them.


Critical support for House Harkonnen's Anti-Imperialist planetary liberation struggle against the settler-colonialist House Atreides.


I know that the "Harokonnens are good guys" posts are just trolling, but to be honest bugs me as well with how Atreides are supposed to be good. Bitch, all of the families are decadent shitter nobles who would see billions die during their petty squables (like how Harkonnens obliterate large parts of the Arrakis city). What they needed to do was show that Atreides were just as much bickering noble idiots as everyone else.


But Duke Leto risked his own life to save those spice harvester workers and prioritized lives over profits they are the lesser evil!!!!11


The worms are the good guys.


I dropped the book halfway through the first chapter where the main character gets "tested". I don't like really like these heavily concept based sci-fi books like Heinlein or Asimov or Le Guin. I feel like it's a cope for how unimaginative the genre really is.


Ok I regret including Le Guin in there. She does genuinely play around with the spess stuff.


I forced myself through Euphoria for whatever reason and it made me fucking hate her. Such an annoying, boring actress.


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I eat bugs for breakfast


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why yes i eat bugs how could you tell?


>Herbert was a strong critic of the Soviet Union.
He seems like a anarchist/libertarian with his politics just being anti-government


Didn't stop him from defending communist and Soviet-sympathizing workers when Joseph McCarthy's initiative went through. Make of that what you will.


Same. It doesn't really feel sci-fi it feels like medieval fantasy with science aesthetic. I always get the feeling that these authors have the Anglo brain and it makes me think it was written in a stuffy library with a bunch of bronze shit a globe and colonial maps, like they are the son of a Baron or a Prince who was educated in "ministering" a business and learned about geopolitics from an aristocratic perspective. Its like they view the world as an RTS video game.



*laughs in sandworm*


Based. Sci fi should be told from the perspective of the commoner who deals with the social consequences of the future world most directly, not somebody at the top who's merely overseeing things where reality is largely an abstraction and access to high technology is an assumed entitlement.
Dune is deconstructing this kind of mythos to be fair.


Ghost in the shell is NOT this and it is still remarkable. In fact, the cruelty and coldness of the police main character just make it better.


Kinokos sinss


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I've come to tell you how wrong you all are.

Very wrong. Oh so very wrong.


Huh? Did we watch the same GiTS? How is Motoko cruel? She sacrifices herself to stop a terrorist; GiTS has one of the most sympathetic portraits of AI police bots you can find in any fiction. Typical jap/anime bullshit glorifying militarism and ignoring all social conflicts and motivations to focus on muh cool gun fights and pseudo-Einstein protagonists.


Saw new Dune last night, I liked it, although it makes me want to go read the book(s) properly since my 5th grade teacher had me read it and I only vaguely understood it


It's got a lot of good aspects but it kinda lacks the more material 80s adaptation, and the ending and final third of the movie feels too similar to James Cameron's Avatar (and it's Cliffhanger).


I feel like Dune is a very confused series, or maybe it’s just how people interpret it that seems confused to me. A lot of people claim Paul is bad because of his jihad, but he continuously suggested the jihad was out of his control. He chose it over joining the Harkonnens, but ultimately the Golden Path was going to require immense misery and bloodshed. It seems like choosing to help the colonized Fremen conquer the empire and achieve their dream of terraforming Dune was marginally better than joining the Harkonnens.

But people say the Fremen lost their culture in the process! I don’t see how their culture was going to be maintained when it was based on the destitution of the desert planet, and terraforming Dune was upending the whole material basis of that culture. And then when you get into the actual fulfillment of the Golden Path by Leto II you’re talking about universal tyranny, but Leto II didn’t even want to do what he did. He wanted to die, he hated it and was immensely bored by his own presience. He only did it to stop the apocalypse, and the vision of humanity’s extinction was even independently corroborated by Siona’s presience, so it isn’t like he is definitely making it all up. All indications are that presience is very powerful, it’s the whole basis of space flight without computers.

So I dunno, I just don’t get it. It seems like Dune has themes of fate and the question of how individual will plays into history, but in terms of the many people who seem to want to construe it as condemning Paul and Leto II, I don’t see it. Paul and Leto II saved humanity from extinction at great personal sacrifice. Paul’s messianic status may have been a lie of the space witches spread on Arrakis a long time ago, but in a way the lie became a reality and Paul couldn’t do much about it. He never had much of a choice, neither did the Fremen, nobody did. At most they had the choice of just not participating, but through presience Paul and Leto II saw that doing that was it’s own kind of choice, the choice to allow the Fremen to be oppressed by the Harkonnens or even allow humanity to perish by killer machines. Presience made them experience the predicament of being unable to be truly free from consequence and causality. I know Herbert himself hated leaders and all that shit, but Paul only really subverted notions of the uniquely powerful or heroic leader by being largely powerless at the same time as being a messianic emperor. I don’t think the message was that what he did was “bad”, it’s that he wasn’t as powerful as he appeared. Leto II very explicitly taught Herbert’s philosophy that leaders and centralization were dangerous and humanity would be more resilient against catastrophe if it was more diverse, which was probably majorly based on ecological stuff he was interest in.


does anime tend to glorify militarism?


what anime? Anime is a medium - a certain style of the macrocategory of animated film/series - and has numerous genre, including culture specific ones endemic to Japan (Shounen, Shoujo, Seinein etc.)
Depending on this and on an individual basis of an anime and its creator, they can be pro or anti-military, see >>>/anime/10545 and the Attack on Titan thread and compare to Miyazaki media, communist anime (thread) and other stuff, there's no single tendency.
Shounen is expected to be pro-military, yet many of the most iconic anime of the genre such as Gundam or Naruto have an overall theme that, despite the cool action, war fucking sucks.


I liked it, but I think a series would be much better. I have three criticisms:

1. Not mentioning the Butlerian Jihad obscures to the viewer completely why their tech is the way it is, why you need spice melange for instellar travel, why hunter-seekers need nearby "operators", etc.

2. Many characters are killed off barely after they are established. Piter De Vries isn't even noticed by people unfamiliar with the book and has like 30 seconds screentime, despite him being such a depraved and villianous character. Feyd-Rautha should have been introduced already. Duncan Idaho and Gurney Halleck are barely introduced, there is zero emotional impact on Idaho's death unless you just like Jason Momoa. Kynes must be a fucking joke of a character, literally introduced and then dies like 10 minutes later.

3. The Bene Gesserit are barely explained. The spacing guild was not explained, although we might see that in part two. Generally, it feels like all the factions more act like an aesthetic backdrop without really explaining their roles and ambitions. Also, giving House Atreides fucking Nazi aesthetic was a horrible design choice.


Sorry but Jodorowsky turning Dune into Stranger in a Strange Land is hard pass for me. He would have been better off adopting that book instead of turning Paul into an actual Jesus figure. One of my biggest appeal for the novel was how cynical it was.


Jodorowsky's ideas about how to do the plot may have been wonky, but given the scope and influence of the story, it merits a radial interpretation of the material to make something bold and novel of its own. However, I think that anon was talking more about the psychedilic elements which were almost totally absent from Villynoov's version. It gets a lot of praise for feeling grounded and real but that's almost the polar opposite of what the story is dealing with. Maybe part 2 will make good on that part and cash in on the groundedness of part one by subverting it, but I doubt the studio would be ok with that.


On the contrary, the plot of SAC second season and Arise is that military bad!
I would not have minded Jodorowsky adaptation in the visual department. Big departure from books kinda works at times, as I like Veerhoven's take on Starship Trooper. But, IMO, the thing is in Dune people fuck. People are still human at the end engaging in all human desires despite a veneer of haughtiness.
The whole immaculate birth of Paul because Jessica converting blood of Leto into sperm and getting impregnated as Leto was castrated prior to Paul dying physically (getting killed by Feyd when it was the opposite) and spiritually becoming cosmic entity with everyone, I think it takes away that human element. The crux of the saga is humanity despite its tribulations endures with its all vices. That was point of Bene Gesserit's Gom Jabbar test. Which is why the Golden Path was such a brutal step. Despite having a larger than life figures, its characters are still human at the end.

Jodorowsky discards that for his larger than life vision, contorting the story into R.A Heinlein's Stranger in a Strange land. He was aiming for a visual journey that would alleviate the viewer into some religious frenzy. And he is aware of it, which is why in the documentary he uses rape analogy, which also ends up alluding to his own origin as a child out of marital rape.

Would I have mind that if it ever materialized? No.
Pretend that it would be adaptation of the book not something inspiring into something entirely different like Starship Trooper? No.


Well more generally imperialism in the middle east.


I mean the red hawk is their symbol and they look appropriately military.


Just watched it. I enjoyed it. Overall, it felt like a straightforward adaption but perhaps missing some of the more trippy and political aspects of Dune? Most evident in the costume design, where everything has a hard, military, efficient look in it. The anti-imperialist stuff is there, but not explored that much. Ecology is also there, but not really explored. I really liked the presentation of the Imperial officials, when they got off the ship on Arakis. That was fun and campy. The Sardaukar doing human sacrifice on a massive scale in a city designed for it was also very cool.
I like the presentation of Paul's ability to read the future, the flux and uncertainty of it. I don't think it was like that in the novels? All the characters were written how I remembered them from the books, and I was about to soyface when Keynes pulled out her hooks. Totally forgot about people riding worms. I liked Jessica, felt the actress did a good job capturing the conflicts of being a mom/doing a science experiment.
Overall, felt like it stayed very close to the source material. Looking forward to the next one.


Lots of people seem to agree it would have worked better as a miniseries. So here's a question for the thread: what would the ideal structure for a screen adaptation of the Dune franchise be?
>How far into the story should they go before stopping?
>How should they break the books into seasons?
>How long should episodes be (roughly) and how many episodes should each book/season get to do the material justice?


GEOD is a good stopping point.


Too bad. Another copy of Jodorowsky's Dune bible sold at auction recently and it looks like it'll finally be getting scanned soon. https://twitter.com/jamieswb/status/1462814157338775560


>finally be getting scanned soon.
ive seen a lot of it somewhere befor


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Yeah and its worth mentioning that in the 1984 dune they have a Tsarist Russia aesthetic.


Embedding error.
Making Spice Russia - birchpunk


>Kynes must be a fucking joke of a character, literally introduced and then dies like 10 minutes later.

Yeah that one's weird. They genderswapped Kynes and then cut the meal scene(dinner) with the smuggler and arrakeen big honchos that would give a lot of context and worldbuilding with a small budget compared to fucking around with CGI.

Another thing that bothers me is that they seemed to have cut all of the eugenics out. That's what Dune is about. It's "What if humanity went full retard and took the (shittiest) path of solving every problem with eugenics, the story." So now the Bene Gesserit are just feminist witches holding out against unenlightened feudal patriarchy, the male "Kwisatz Haderach" cannot be explained because political correctness. And I suspect the rush through the betrayal arc is because political correctness would not allow the depiction of the protagonist as part of the feudal, deeply classist society with cynical aristocrats openly admitting it's all smoke and mirrors to keep the rabble busy, miserable and subservient. Oh and the Fremen need to be kept in the noble savage(but oddly progressive, instead of pragmatic) unexplored territory.

It's like they wanted to make a modern adaptation but in the process ended up gouging most of the meaty bits for political correctness until what remains is a generic story with winks to book readers that satisfy no one.

Book readers are reminded of all the movie does wrong by omission and non book readers don't get the reference at all because it's given no context within the movie.


> So now the Bene Gesserit are just feminist witches holding out against unenlightened feudal patriarchy,
How the fuck did you get the notion that the Bene Gesserit were good in the film? They come off as devious as fuck, help to orchestrate the death of Paul’s house, Paul’s mother is shown as right to have gone against their wishes, and Paul himself despises them for setting him up to be their puppet.
> the male "Kwisatz Haderach" cannot be explained because political correctness
Or….crazy thought…they’re saving the explanation for the second film? Like ffs in this movie they only even vaguely hinted at what is supposed to make Paul special, all they have given thus far is that he has some Bene Gesserit abilities and can also see the future vaguely
From what is shown it’s pretty clear they’re going to explain his abilities in the next film since the ending shows Paul having visions of multiple possible futures
> And I suspect the rush through the betrayal arc is because political correctness would not allow the depiction of the protagonist as part of the feudal, deeply classist society with cynical aristocrats openly admitting it's all smoke and mirrors to keep the rabble busy, miserable and subservient.
Again, it’s pretty damn clear the Atreides are not truly liberators to the Fremen, Leto’s men clearly see the Fremen as savage subjects and nearly murder the first few Fremen they encounter who they had specifically contacted to come for diplomatic negotiations, and Leto himself is only contacting the Fremen to have an edge against the Harkonnens and the Emperor who he knows are trying to kill him
Also why the fuck do you want to watch a movie that’s 90% exposition exactly? You realize a film adaptation is not a BOOK? Film is a visual medium, most people do not want to see a film consisting of people constantly explaining shit to other characters who should already understand the situation in-universe
Like did you want a scene where Paul is directly told what spice is used for even though he should already know? Paul isn’t exactly on a hero’s journey here.
> Oh and the Fremen need to be kept in the noble savage(but oddly progressive, instead of pragmatic) unexplored territory.
Again, how exactly did you get this interpretation? The second the Fremen encounter Paul and his mother traversing the desert, they sic sandworms on them and then plan to murder them for their water, afterwards Paul is forced into a duel to the death against a guy he just met, and again, there is going to be a second film that depicts the Fremen jihad
> It's like they wanted to make a modern adaptation but in the process ended up gouging most of the meaty bits for political correctness until what remains is a generic story with winks to book readers that satisfy no one.
It’s almost like they’re making a sequel and most people actually enjoy twists, revelations, and no bland exposition in a movie


You are a retard


>Film is a visual medium, most people do not want to see a film consisting of people constantly explaining shit to other characters who should already understand the situation in-universe
Excuse me, without the knowledge of the Butlerian Jihad, which is mentioned in the book in the first fucking chapter, you won't even get why their tech is so weird and why they use swords.

Take the scene with the hunter-seeker drone for example.
>the operator must be nearby!
Why? The audience is left clueless as to why we need mindslaves to operate things.


>Film is a visual medium, most people do not want to see a film consisting of people constantly explaining shit to other characters who should already understand the situation in-universe
Ditching the internal monologues was unironically a huge mistake. They should have learned from what David Lynch did right instead of trying to be as different as possible in execution.


>Excuse me, without the knowledge of the Butlerian Jihad, which is mentioned in the book in the first fucking chapter, you won't even get why their tech is so weird and why they use swords.
Why the fuck does the audience need to know? And furthermore, how the fuck would this be conveyed to people who should already know the history of their own universe without making the main characters look like retarded with a shit tier exposition scene? Like why the fuck does Paul need to be told shit he should already know as the heir to House Atreides? Idky book fans struggle to comprehend that films typically do not have an ongoing narration, and almost no well-done narration is a boring fag giving exposition about plot.


Dude, there are core aspects of the entire story that you can't just guess or whatever. Should LotR have started in the Mines or Moria?

In the movie, Paul literally watches documentaries on Arrakis and they fit in nicely into the fabric of the movie, so come the fuck on.

I am usually a big fan of "show, don't tell" and Dune is already weird enough, but you do realize there is barely any substance left for non-book watchers to apreciate besides the visuals? Excuse me for expecting something a bit more high-brow than Star Wars which is just just self-explanatory fantasy transplanted into space.


Also, they are covering like… 1/3rd or less of the first book of a saga. A first book which is itself an (in-medias-res?) introduction. There is so little meat in the movie. They have actors, they can have the actors speaking. AS I said before the book provides two scenes of motly dialogue to establish context without needing to verbalize the internal monologues. The meal scene with Kynes and the Arakeen VIPs and the verbal interactions with Stilgar's Fremen before the fight with Paul.

But they din't want to go there because the Fremen wont fit very well to politically correct sensibilities if reproduced faithfully and will get scorned by book readers if they don't. Apparently their budget is better spent on desert and explosion's CGI and fighting choreography. So much so that they skipped the whole "finding the traitor" arc and with it the entire in explainer for Hawat, Idaho, Jessica&Leto and their situation on Arrakis to rush to the fighting scenes.

I'm not asking for some stringent pedantic adherence to the books. I read the books after watching the movie and it's such a shame how little they did to condense the already sparse explanations given in the book. It seems to me that they went the other way, that they though it they remove just a little bit more context, they could pass it for a generic story that needs no worldbuilding.


I'm 80 pages into Children of Dune, why do people hate on this book? It's better than Dune Messiah so far, and even that wasn't a bad book by any means.


Dune Messiah isn't even a sequel, it's literally more or less the conclusion of Paul's arc that began with the first book, it's a great book.


After watching the Lynch version it's very obvious that they tried very hard to be as different as possible and it really suffers for it. The worst example is that where that version over-explains things the new version explains nothing.


It's so cool that Paul can run the universe but the possibility of being a single father drives him to suicide, pimp as fuck


>Golden Path
So I'm reading through God Emperor right now and the problem I'm having with the series is that the more things are explained the less sense they make. And the whole "Golden Path" that Paul didn't have the balls to take is like peak nonsense justified by prescience.

>Oh sorry the prescient character says so! x99

For everything.

Also the eugenics is starting to get on my tits. I get the eugenics as a plotpoint to illustrate the ass backwards, stagnation of an empire stuck in spice based technofeudalism. But even then technology is lampshaded as an easy way out the moment anyone develops a way around shield technology or brings back computers for FTL navigation.

It seems every plotpoint revolves around some part of "human nature" that needs to be bred in or out of the human species. So the threat to humanity justifying the Golden Path feels even more contrived. Like if there is genetic/psychic memory, what is the justification of the Bene Gesserit or the Tleilaxu or the guild navigators not to explore that memory to gain a massive edge with the scientific knowledge from before the Butlerian Jihad?

But nope it's all about breeding the right prophets, warriors and administrators. Then ultimately traumatizing the entirety of interstellar humanity so that it's collective genetic memory will direct them unconsciously away from the timelines that result in extinction. At no point is this access to literally the entirety of human knowledge and experience, even mused to be of any use other than securing technofeudal power so that one can do interstellar level eugenics.

Why? Because some prescient dick that claims to be acting with the perspective and wisdom of every previously lived human despite never acting himself outside of character for the present times says so. and because of it every character and faction must be retards.


I've heard Dune is a big inspiration for HighFleet, can anyone confirm? It's got some of the aspects but reminds me more of STALKER and HOI4 TBH just in a more modernized setting (for the latter)


why did they design the orifice to look like a butthole…


Mixed feelings about the movies
I watched it in a cinema
>badly paced story
>characters youre supposed to be invested in hardly have any screentime
>weirdly religious in its visuals and music
>just a 2 and a half hour BWAAAAAAAAAAAAP Hans Zimmer music video with pretty CGI

>Lawrance of arabia will save the space arabs
But i heard from others that if you had read the manga you would know that its actually a brilliant deconstruction of the trope so meh

Movie could have been better tbh.


If there is going to be a directors cut with more story and less CGI i would be down
But after 2 hours of hans zimmer earrape my adhd brain was just 100% mush and i wanted to go home


No i agree

I never read the manga and dont plan to
Only thing so far in regards to the tech is:
>super shield tech that blocks high velocity shit but not slot stuff, so you can still walk and work, meaning the only weapons usefull are melee and shit

Why the fuck do they need spice
You dont even know the characters who die
The main character hardly has any dialogue.

Movie is shit. Looks pretty though. Nice Hans Zimmer music video


>Only thing so far in regards to the tech is:
>>super shield tech that blocks high velocity shit but not slot stuff, so you can still walk and work, meaning the only weapons usefull are melee and shit
Only thing i figured out by deduction i guess.


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Ya know, you've forced me… to come here and set things straight… [whispers] personally.


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>Bring in that floating fat man, the Baron


>ayyy i'm christopher walken over here, in DUNE 2 3D only in IMAX

i'll cry if they adapt that from the novellas


>Why the fuck do they need spice
Space travel. The Navigators need it to be able to chart a path through space. Also, most of the people you see who have seemingly super-human abilities, like the mentats and Bene Gesserit, use it to a greater or lesser degree. It's basically brain steroids that gives you low level psychic abilities.


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>Why the fuck do they need spice
They don't use computers after they had AI go crazy so they need brain enhancers that let enhanced humans do math. Not just the navigators, but you also have the mentats (the advisors you see with the mouth tattoos) and others who use it for extra power.


>they don't have computers
wait then what powers their systems? the planes?


Planes don't need computers to fly or have functioning instruments. How do you think they did it before we had small enough computers to do that? IIRC the vehicles are powered by fairly mundane means, some things like the space ships using the Holtzman effect that is used to handwave all sorts of stuff from folding space to the energy shields.


A plane is significantly different to a spaceship, and you cannot create a functional large scale plane comparable to a passenger liner and not have computers of any kind. Hell even the first manned aircraft had pilots bringing handheld altimeters and other devices to fly safer.


The Hughes H-4 Hercules, which is the second biggest aircraft ever built, didn't need any computer. You could theoretically make a spacecraft work with a compass a clock and a side rule, it would just be an extreme hassle. Hell NACA used women as computers before the technology was mature enough.


But even if the mentats can think fast enough, they can't send out motor movements fast enough to be equivalent to a flight computer. A computer can control hundreds of devices at the same time. How can a human do that?


Maybe I read it wrong or am not deep enough into the lore, but I thought the Butlerian Jihad was just a ban on all "thinking machines", meaning a ban on AI or anything that could be construed as AI or simply any machine whose function could be construed as doing your thinking for you, but not all computers in general. Like I said, I haven't read any extended lore about Dune, but from the books it didn't seem like they had any problem with "dumb" computers, ones that served a mostly mechanical function, and a lot of their technology implies some degree of computerization, just with any and all AI banned. Like I don't see how the hunter-seeker could possibly have functioned without computerization, but it couldn't make any decisions for itself. It needed an operator nearby.


The Spruce Goose had plenty of onboard navigational instruments and was a Flying Boat.


>any and all AI banned
That makes a heck of a lot more sense to me.


>Oh sorry the prescient character says so! x99
The good news is that Heretics and Chapterhouse don't share that problem because no-ships are spread enough that the True Prescience isn't a problem. It also helps that Odrade isb a way more developed and sympathetic protagonist compared to Paul, Leto, or Sionna


The bad news is that Frank's wife wasn't there to edit those last two books because she was dying of cancer, the villains, called the Honored Matres are very much sexually frustrated sci-fi writer bullshit


>the Honored Matres are very much sexually frustrated sci-fi writer bullshit

what do they have their tits out or something


They enslave men by getting them addicted and brainwashed to their pussies, they also glass any planet that doesn't immediately surrender to them. Duncan Idaho #363638484 does the reverse on one of them and gets her pregnant.


>They enslave men by getting them addicted and brainwashed to their pussies

I dunno dude if the game be insane some men lose they brain. This be like 40 thousand years in the future, bet they got positions and shit that we ain't even dreamin of. Hyper kegels, take the dick meat right off the bone.


>Sci-Fi literature
<sudden attack of lonely Japanese hentai artist syndrome
It's like TiTs but even randomer.


What's that?

I ask because there's no way that acronym is going to bring up what you're talking about.


Washington Post says that the movie removes a lot of the Islamic influences found in the book and also turns Herbert’s nuanced allegory of imperialism into generic “white people bad, brown people good” radlib crap. Kinda have to agree tbh.


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It's pretty funny that Hollywood didn't have the balls to make the Fremen seem Islamic at all and actually cast them as "anything but white" instead of some kind of consistent appearance, which is both silly and in contradiction with a lot of the major ideas in Dune.


The West is still scared of islam, even though the ones that are going to start executing people in the near future are christopussies.


Jihad is still a no no word in america because they're still obcessed with 9/11


would honestly be curious to find out if dennis has even read the sabres of paradise


The books also heavily imply (at least in children and god emperor) that the ban on AI is violated all the time, the elite just never mention it espstein-style.


>Maybe I read it wrong or am not deep enough into the lore, but I thought the Butlerian Jihad was just a ban on all "thinking machines", meaning a ban on AI or anything that could be construed as AI or simply any machine whose function could be construed as doing your thinking for you, but not all computers in general.
Technically speaking a calculator doing simple arithmetic is still doing thinking for you.
Maybe they banned computers emulating neural networks.


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more like pune


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That dude looks Somalian or Ethiopian so he does have some Islamic influences on him.


Trials in Tainted Space by Fenoxo. It's a porny space exploration text game that has some interesting ideas but the sexual focus and basis kind of makes it go retarded at times.


kinda funny that he did that music video years ago with the dune reference and now he's going to be in the movie


>Technically speaking a calculator doing simple arithmetic is still doing thinking for you.
Yes, correct. They don't have calculators in the Dune universe. That's at least partially the role of the mentats.

I know that lots of computers are basically calculators, but (at least in Frank Herbert's original novels) the Butlerian Jihad was more of a philosophical restriction on computers based around the idea that humanity was becoming too intellectually dependent on them, and this dependence was preventing humanity from reaching its full potential. A potential realized in the likes of the mentats, navigators, and Bene Gesserit.

However, a lot of their technology is clearly computerized and it would have to be. I've always interpreted this to mean that they have some basic "dumb" computerization that neither has artificial intelligence of any kind nor performs any function that could be viewed as "thinking for humans".

So, for instance, the hunter-seeker is clearly a device that would require extensive computerization to function, but still requires a human pilot.

Also, there's a lot of spiritual and religious themes in the books, and one of the impressions I got was that the people of the Dune universe regard thought and consciousness as something sacred, and consequently not something to be given over to machines.


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They were never even called computers in the books, just "thinking machines" implying that non-thinking machines were OK.


Hold up, where is the Dune reference in Weapon of Choice? What did I miss?


"walk without rhythm and it won't attract the worm"
@ 2:04


oh and he's in the new trailer


Oooooh now it's coming together, I honestly never put that together and thought it was about a bird catching a worm or some shit.



Dune part 2 is coming out soon, is anyone interested to see it, because frankly it's not getting a lot of advertising or attention.


I hope we get a Dune Messiah movie because it's extremely important in understanding the story Frank Herbert wanted to tell. Dune Messiah is the fallout of Paul ruling and we see the universal genocide and his regrets. I fear some retard right wingers will be like "based religious leader takes over" after Dune Part Two.


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>I fear some retard right wingers will be like "based religious leader takes over" after Dune Part Two.
Paul Atreides is already in the Sigma Expanded Universe.


I agree. Although the message is already there in the first book.


nice digits this is fucking primo copypasta material anon


I mean your right but after reading the first two pics I think the point is that le epic clone eugenics leaders are actually a terrible idea and lead to the deaths of millions and religous reactionaries ruling the galaxy. If anything it fell victim to the common phenomena of media consumers seeing a character do awful shit and be like "holy shit hes just like me frfr" also funny jpg saved that shit


I know this comment is almost two years old now, but Jesus Christ, that compression. Also
Good old Hans. I actually liked the music in the film, though.


Are the books actually worth reading or am I going to be disappointed like when I read the Enders Game series and it’s all fairly reactionary bullshit with a couple cool moments.


Holy shit those gets.

I liked them, but I also know to separate my ideological principles from enjoying a story.


Yeah, they're good. All the ones Frank Herbert wrote anyway. His son couldn't write his way out of a wet paper bag.


First two books are very good, third is shitload of politics and then it starts going downhill from there and sixth is completly bonkers.
uyghas who read Chapterhouse: Dune and KNOW about space jews and bene gesserit plotting, speak up


>Liet Keynes
>a woman
I might be stupid, but this is pretty logical. What characters are not what they appear and have much deeper plans than it seems? Bene Gesserit.
Who are Bene Gesserit? Women.


So are they just cutting Alia altogether or


I like how after thinking about it for six books Frank finally decided that even though spice is objectively good for you it's still a drug addiction at the end of the day. [spoiler]I also like he straight up makes an avatar of himself and his wife a deus ex machina [/spoiler]


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>So are they just cutting Alia altogether or




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The first movie sucked ass so hard. I dunno if it's just because I read the book first but it really felt like they sucked the life out of the story. Literally just going through the motions. They did the story verbatim but somehow removed every ounce of substance. I really did not like the casting either. Nobody felt right at all.


How are they going to get a 27 year old woman to play Alia LMAO? So we're supposed to believe that 27 years transpired between Dune part 1 and 2 now?


So apparently Alia doesn't appear in the movie, only in visions of the future as her 27 year old self, which would be after Paul is already dead I guess. I don't know when this means Alia is born if she's not already born by the events of Dune part 2.


Ok so apparently she is still an embryo in the movie which means that Paul has only been living with the Fremen for less than 9 months vs the ~5 years in the book.


Watching it tonight. It's already in theatres in Yurop


Spoilers ahead.

Honestly it's a bit of a slog. There were times where is honestly just got really bored. The dialog is really campy, and the story so predictable that it can't carry the movie at all, and the movie just ignores all the world-building and exposition to drag the viewer into this universe. It's just sand and worms, and Arrakis is fucking inhospitable that you don't even get mountains, oases or any sort of settlements, just the capital which looks like a dead city as well. It's like someone tasked Todd Howard with creating an unfinished sandbox (no pun intended) for the next Elder Scroll. Cinematography was good, some scenes looked nice, costumes are so-so (not something you wouldn't see in a medium budget show on the SyFy channel) - the only cool segment was an arena fight that was shot in almost black and white.

All the characters were cardboard villains and heroes. The only romance of this film was Twilight-esque characters giving sultry looks to each other, in general the movie is terminally unsexy despite trying to be "gritty", it's like sex in the beach but all you get is sand in your peehole and vagina. The few good actors in this movie, like Skarsgart and the guy who played Thanos (forget his name) were underused, Ferguson was okay, but decided to play her character like a villian but she doesn't care about the book anyway (by her own words!). Hans Zimmer's score was okay but not a single new piece we already heard in the first movie, and at times very Hollywood-esque.

A movie that plays it safe, by the book. There is chosen one, his side chick, retarded cliche villains (who do stuff like creating a huge cloud of dust and charge into it without organization knowing the enemy is there).


It was good


As expected. Denis is a massive hack. Blade Runner was shit. Dune pt 1 was shit. Pt 2 is shit too but will have enough action scenes to make normies think it's not shit.


Arrival was alright, apart from the orientalism with the mad Chinese general who is somehow in charge of the PRC. But yeah, he is overrated.


The action scenes were shit. All of them happened in a sandstorm so you can't see shit, and there were tons of "idiotic villian charges at the hero with a raised sword exposing his entire front, hero just stabs him in the belly/chest" scene. I actually had to laugh out loud when I saw the Fremen and the Sardukaar SPRINTING at each other for the battle, IN A DESERT in FIFTY PLUS DEGREE CELSIUS.


Hollywood momento


the white savior trope doesn't outrage me. it just makes me roll my eyes. it's so predictable at this point.


That was in the book too, Frank Herbert was an anti-communist Republican with eugenic ideas, he just also had a huge imagination and inner life


Dune lends itself more to animation than it does live action, especially the stuff with Alia being a toddler speaking in full sentences.


>I fear some retard right wingers will be like "based religious leader takes over" after Dune Part Two.
you really overestimate their analytical abilities
theyre just mad that chani is played by someone with melanin


Bait. Not even gonna respond.


Alia is gonna spend 5 years in the womb.


I liked the first half of Dune part 2. It was amazing in pacing and visuals. After the introduction of Feyd, whose design I still don't like, it all accelerated to end the movie at 2h 30 min. I still loved it. It's difficult to adapt Dune into a movie. In a decade maybe we will get the Dune animated series that we need.


I am so conflicted lmao. Like every character besides paul is flat as a fucking plank, and he only gets better post-water of life.

The fact that Chani is such a bitch, because she is sulking when Paul has to take Irulana as a wife doesn't make any fucking sense. I mean it does in a movie, but doesn't make a sense if you know Chani. I believe that removal of Jamis' wife is huge reason for that.


As for the good parts. I would kill for Dune book with stills from this movie, they fit so fucking Good.


I liked it too but I'm still a little bit heartbroken that we didn't get my favorite part of the book, which is Janis' wife being a mother figure to Alia, telling her she's not a freak, it makes her downfall in Children of Dune hit much harder


Zendaya was the only weak part for me. She's always doing the same performance in every movie i've seen her in.


My theory is that a lot of the changes made in Dune 2 from the book are because it's The Prophet's propaganda.

If you don't know, after Chani is killed, Paul blinds himself and wanders off into the wilderness, becoming "The Preacher," a wondering blind prophet who preaches against his own religion and is ultimately and ironically killed by one of his own priests for blasphemy.

>My mom made me do it! It was her idea!

>I didn't even have those strong prescient visions until my mom made me drink the water of life. I couldn't have even played myself off as a prophet!
>I was also totally honest with Chani the whole time and she never believed all the religious mummery. I certainly didn't convince Chani I was a prophet almost right away and have her wrapped around my finger after we did psychedelic drugs together and I gave her the old "Muad-D"
>I also did not get Chani teen pregnant and did not get our child killed by taking him on campaign with us
>Also, it was me who killed the Baron! Stabbed that MF right in the neck! It wasn't Alia with a Gom Jabbar, we wouldn't let a child into an active war zone with a poisoned needle hahaha…
>Also, everyone knew Feyd Rautha was a psychopath and though I was cool for killing him. He was one tough bastard too, but I beat him fair and square in an honest duel! He was actually beating me before he insulted Chani and I went beast mode on him! The claims that I was using prescient vision to know his moves before he made them, or that he was too used to dirty tricks in duels and poisoned himself with his own hidden needle are total nonsense
>Also, I had the Emperor taken prisoner and totally at my mercy! My plan didn't hinge *entirely* on threatening to destroy the spice!


"Shitty writing is actually just unreliable narration" is a very weak cope unless there's actually something to indicate that.


Dune 2 was ok. Amazing visuals and great action scenes. Acting was mediocre, especially Zendaya's performance. Second half felt rushed, many characters feel one dimensional. I could stomach the changes to the story but I feel like a few important things were left out in favor of more fluff like yeah I get it Feyd is a bad guy, don't need 4 separate scenes that don't advance the story which show that. Also I don't know whether that's because I knew the story but I didn't feel like the tension was strong. Wonder what Denis will do with Dune Messiah and whether he'll tie up some lose ends. I wonder whether people who don't know the books understood the whole Bene Gesserit thing.

I have read the first 4 of the original 6 books.


You should read Heretics, it's a good book


Part 2 was better than part 1


true, her embittered but smitten character is pulled straight from her euphoria character


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>Your father…was a woke libtard
Didn't expect Denis to be so on-the-nose with this


is this the cowbell guy


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>This guy knows Christopher Walken as "Cowbell Guy"
For shame anon.


Btw, I liked the stronger highlighting of the Fremen into different religious factions with their frictions and the strengthened role of Chani in which maybe some people disliked because it diverts a bit from the book.

It stressed the agency of the Fremen and actually reinforced Dune's anti-colonial message as well as its critique on religion. I think that this was a great and modern choice on the part of Villeneuve. I just wished the aesthetics had been a bit more along the lines of speculative fiction, in the sense of 'what would Islamic aesthetics look like in 2000 years' like they did with some of thr costumes instead of 'ok it's a dessert planet so let's go with brutalism.

Will do probably.


>the strengthened role of Chani in which maybe some people disliked because it diverts a bit from the book.
probably more just disliking zendaya
>I just wished the aesthetics had been a bit more along the lines of speculative fiction
Probably my biggest gripe with these movies (maybe second to how much is lost by omitting all the internal monologue stuff). When we look back at these movies they are going to feel very of their time with the aesthetics. IDK where it started but I feel like Inception really set the stage for the current era of hollywood making everything drab and mundane even when you're seeing something fantastical. Also the BWAH music and trailers.


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I mean like I have already mentioned they did this with the costume design to a degree which I liked a lot, then why go with generic and plane Bladerunner2049-style brutalism? It works with the Harkonnen, I just don't get why they did this on Arrakis or even Caladan.


So are they going to address how the Spice is made or we just going to have to wait for the adaption of Children of Dune or God Emperor of Dune to know about the Worms and their role in the Spice.


Dune 1 was so mid I don't think I'll try to see this one in theaters.


The brutalism would have been a neat feature if the geometric shapes had been rounded down by erosion over time. Arrakis has been occupied for something like ten thousand years at this point, right?


It does well at accentuating the contrast between modern/sci-fi and medieval/supernatural elements. I agree that the architecture or what's more annoying to me the design of the military aspects of the film (simple modern officer's uniforms, generic spacesuits and non-ideological militarism) or just the entire Harkonnen homeworld are bland, but I think that also fits the source material. Like we are supposed believe that an ultra-advanced space-faring civilization will base its political structure on feudal customs. For a human being living in our world in the year 202x it's hard to make sense of how the societies depicted actually work, especially outside the Fremens. Dune only works when not everything is taken literally, as it's not a real sci-fi and it isn't based on real science, it's a mix of historical and contemporary political allegories (religion, feudalism, nomadic/martial cultures, Western colonialism, the Roman Empire, the Russian Empire, etc.) that somehow fit together.

Let's be fair dear comrades from 2020, despite psycho-history resembling historical materialism, the actual story of the book up until the introduction of the Second Foundation is an allegory for the decline and rise of a mythic, united West first as the Roman Empire collapsing into the clergy-dominated Middle Ages and its subsequent reclaiming of its technological prowess and expansion fueled by trade and secularized politics. This history omits almost everything that an anti-imperialist Marxist likes to critique: the Roman Empire's reliance territorial conqest for acquiring slaves, the reliance of early colonialists on trade and technology from the at the time still equally prosperous non-Western civilizations, the reliance of later European industries on wealth extracted from the colonies, the actual existence of any non-Western civilizations, the disunity of the West at least until WW2, and of course severe class conflict within the West.

The historical materialism that can be derived from psycho-history is at best an ultra-deterministic caricature version of Marxism where gigabrained Marx predicts the exact movements of every single grain of sand in the Sahara for the next 1000 years using science so advanced its indistinguishable from magic. This so-called historical materialism is only fit for leftcoms who spend every waking hour in their armchairs. The Second Foundation is even weirder it's about mind-controlling everyone in the galaxy while hiding in the shadows and it's also totally incompatible with Marxism except if you are Lyndon LaRouche himself, who, as your average late 20th century cult leader, probably based his praxis on these novels


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I really want to enjoy the Dune series, but it's hard to identify with any of the characters. How am I supposed to relate to any of these guys if they won't turn to the screen and tell me how they feel about sand?


The more I think about Villeneuve's Dune, the less I like it.




Frank Herbert is a Bene Gesserit. He depicts ideas being sowed in the Fremen of a white savior coming to lead them to victory. While his book serves to plant the same ideas in the Muslims of the real world. That was his plan.


>Oh look how smart I am deliberately misinterpreting a scene from a completely different film.
Every time I see people talk shit about the sand scene, I know they're pseudo-intellectual twits. 3/10 bait.


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>implying I was trying to unironically mock the sand scene instead of just making a funny reference to a franchise that Dune is often compared to


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Ah, in that case I apologize. This sort of shit is said unironically by all sorts of people and it's gotten tiresome.


It's not shitty writing, it's the changes made in the movie.


Tell me about how the sand scene was a brilliant piece of cinematography.


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Here's a sound version for future use.


Danke, I was going to download a version later but forgot.

Sure. The scene works because of the context of the characters, situation and depiction. As Lucas says it Rhymes, like poetry.

For the over-all character:
In the context of the story, Anakin is a young man, hormonal and who has reunited with an object of his obsession which has reawakened his ego and sexuality from its repressed dormancy. It had been repressed because of the incumbent Jedi Establishment's attitude towards emotional attachment. So when he's assigned as Padme's guard, he cannot help but have his feelings and teenage hormones magnified by constant presence around her.
So in summary, a boy, who has never faced his own hormones and emotions and essentially told to repress them, is suddenly confronted with the source of powerful feelings and memories which he doesn't know how to deal with on top of already being an awkward teenager stuck between boy and man.
We see this visibly in how his maturity and good relations with Obi-Wan sour and he begins to counter-mand and argue with him as soon as he meets Padme again.

It's harder for me to describe Padme's side, but it's a reflection of classical cursed love where an overly kind woman falls in love with someone deeply broken.

The sand scene in particular has the context of him and Padme hanging out and Padme - who was always rich and well-cared for (which is why she can afford to be so kind, empathetic and forgiving a person) - and she brings up her happy memories playing as a child on the warm, sandy beaches of Naboo, something she could enjoy because she lived on a watery planet in luxury, and not thinking about how it would appear to Anakin, who she knows was born into slavery. And so in marked contrast of their positions and upbringings Anakin, awkwardly and directly states his hatred for sand and all he associates it with, while indirectly reminding Padme of who he is, where he's from, and what he'd suffered. This slightly wooden dialogue works because it fits the characters and situation, and directly carry's across exactly what George Lucas wants to be seen.

Finally the scene homage's many of the corny, old TV-Shows and films like Flash Gordon.


NOTHING of this is remarkable. It is bog standard. What little symbolism there is, is obvious and superficial. It gives no further insight and exhibits no artistry.
It also doesn't go into the actual, filmographic execution of the scene, which is what the other Anon asked for. The lighting, the composition, the mise en scène. Which are all, typical of Lucas return to directing, typical and boring.

Just because something has reason behind it, is intended, does not make it good - let alone great. It is BEYOND SAD this has to be said.


interestingly the star wars the clone wars writers end up making this a running gag of sorts with Anakin complaining about sand and shaking it off him sometimes. also kinda off topic from the thread but is it me or is anakin/vader basically just bonapartism in spaaaaceeeee.


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>bog standard
Not an argument, at this point in human history, every trope and cliche and so on has been done before.
>NOTHING of this is remarkable
Not an argument, that's a statement and of a personal opinion at that.
>obvious and superficial
Nope, it's obvious because it's meant to be, it certainly is not superficial, because Lucas isn't trying to hide the symbolism. He has gone on record stating that what he cares about is the story and Pure Cinema, he doesn't bother beating around the bush with what he wants to demonstrate.
>exhibits no artistry.
You're just using psuedo-intellectual buzzwords to sound smarter, doesn't make what you're saying any more true.
>It also doesn't go into the actual, filmographic execution of the scene… The lighting, the composition, the mise en scène
Tell you're a pretentious pseud without telling me you're a pretentious pseud. The scene is exactly what is needed for the story moment. You're just using terms you've heard by people use when talking about film, without understanding them. None of what you're saying is true because that's what YOU want to see, but it's not what Lucas wanted to show. He is intentionally avoiding a subjective position and films them as if the viewer was there with them, listening into a personal, real scene.
If you genuinely think that Lucas, who studied film professionally and whose cinematography reflected his study, wasn't aware of the lighting and composition he was personally directing, then you're an entitled ignoramus.
>typical and boring
No anon. What you're stating is the same entitled burger-fan approach to media that feeds Hollywood's anti-artistic movie production system, you come to the film expecting to see what you want to see, and when you don't get that you call it bad. When analyzing art, especially in film, a main part of it is to see how well the artist achieved their goal in expressing their idea. The focus of the scene about sand isn't about the background or lighting, the environment is a tertiary factor here. The story and characters in it are the important part, and the scene does exactly what it needs to do - portray a moment of how different Anakin and Padme are and demonstrate Anakin's inner wounds, while also setting up what occurs on Tatooine. On Tatooine is where the environment plays a greater role and focus and we see this in how Anakin reacts to returning and the over-all visuals.
Just because it isn't what you like does not make it bad, just something that you do not personally enjoy and its BEYOND SAD that the difference between the meaning and execution of an art piece and one's own tastes needs to be explained.
>Just because something has reason behind it, is intended, does not make it good
Yes it is, if it carries across the intent it has succeeded. It's BEYOND SAD that you think you've stated something like this and assume it somehow makes your opinion fact.


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>the star wars the clone wars writers end up making this a running gag of sorts with Anakin complaining about sand and shaking it off him sometimes
It works in a more humoristic referential way because of that scene, but also works on 2 other levels. First, normal people would complain about sand like that, people do so all the time. Secondly it fits George Lucas's style of references. His films are full of references to other works of music, cinematography and dialogue and his own films. For example the scene where Obi-wan goes to a diner is visually referential to American Graffiti's similar scenes (pic rel).

>s it me or is anakin/vader basically just bonapartism in spaaaaceeeee.

Not really. People use Bonapartism without understanding the meaning of the term in either modern usage or in historical usage. The main idea was essentially creating/restoring a monarchy based around a charismatic militaristic leader-figure that had the people's support through populism. And while I'm dismissive of liberal whining about Russian Imperialism, Putin does fit the modern concept of Bonapartism.
Anakin does not. His story, role and actions are far more directly dictatorial, and not a widely known, populist supported figure. Palpatine MIGHT fit that role prior to the rise of the Empire, but even that is a bit of a stretch. Frankly Anakin although not directly is in some ways analogous to Jesus Christ (his mother's fatherless conception for example) but in a twist of reality and fate, the once peaceful religion of the Jedi had become a stagnant, arrogant group, blinded to the Dark Side by their traditionalism and inflexibility, and so essentially fulfilling the prophecy of balancing the force, by pushing the messiah into the arms of the devil and being destroyed as a result, balancing the Dark and Light side in that twisted way. But with the Empire's fascistic rise things are unbalanced again, and through Luke redeeming Vader and, as part of the rebellion, defeating the Empire, the story is brought to a close. The politics are far more centered around Palpatine and his game of Cat and Mouse between Republic and CIS, between himself and the Jedi, and is a depiction of Decaying Capitalism descending into fascism, reflecting the United States, Nazi Germany and Ancient Rome.

Further discussion should be taken to the current Star Wars thread >>15143 sage for offtopic


I have never read dune but I thought dune 2 was worth the ticket price. what I liked: the cgi and visuals were insane, costume designs and the scene with the arena fight. what I didnt like: the writing was meh, zendayas character could be cut and the story would still be the same and the fact that the emperor of the galaxy was defended with 8 dudes wielding swords and some machine gun helicopters


The problem with the prequels isn't that they're conceptually bad. There's actually a good story in there if George hired someone to edit his screenplays and he got someone else to direct. His dialogue is atrocious, and he reaches new lows in getting wooden performances from the actors. It's almost impressive how with everything the movies had going for them (core concept, setting, budget, all the talent involved) George almost single-handedly made the movies awful.


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Anon, like I said for >>40371
The dialogue is fine, it's just not what YOU wanted. From the point of view of the story it's great - it fits the character of Anakin as an awkward teenager with poor socialization, it's direct yet has depth and so on. You think its awful because it's not what your vision of those things is, but George's. You say how George made these movies awful…. without Lucas the story, the characters, the concepts, talents and budget would not exist.


>From the point of view of the story it's great
do you mean it fits the story? you would be onto something if the dialogue were authentically "awkward", as though it evoked an actual "awkward teenager with poor socialization", but it does not. the dialogue is awkward in the sense that it evokes adult actors on a sound stage reading dialogue written by a man who hasn't been a teenager for forty years.
that said, people probably wouldn't rag on the writing so much if the direction were worth a fuck. the actors in these movies look lost, especially the first two. by the third at least mcdiarmid and mcgregor are having fun with it.


Should have done this earlier with >>40404 but whatever, all further Star Wars discussion is moved to the Star Wars thread, my response to (you) is >>40412


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Dune is such a fun litmus test for who "gets it" and who would be easily led into committing atrocities by a sufficiently charismatic leader.


All muslim e-celebs are screaming about Lisan Al Gaib, so you are right.


I'm starting to think that there's a big chunk of the populace that just wants to be bullshitted into a grand narrative. Probably some kind of generational trauma from all the centuries of religious repression against pagans, heretics, and doubters.


worst part is that both the movies and books are incredibly in your face about it but people still dont get it


>Probably some kind of generational trauma from all the centuries of religious repression against pagans, heretics, and doubters.
99% of those people were not even close to "free thinkers," anon.


the villeneuve dune movies so far are just timothee chalamet and zendaya thirst trapping while fighting the evil black-and-white people


nobody said "free thinkers" but you, chvd


That's the implication, isn't it? If the reason that people want to be bullshitted into a grand narrative is because of generational trauma from centuries of religious repression against pagans, heretics and doubters, it stands to reason that said pagans, heretics and doubters must have been rational free thinkers generally freed from such nonsense.

Except that they weren't. For every Galileo, you had at least a hundred people like Montanists, Cathars and Hermeticists. Take a long watch of vid related if you want to see how supposedly rational the Hermeticists are.


i've seen lots of very, very emotive reaction to Dune, which usually fluctuates between "Villaneuve doesn't understand this franchise" and 'Dune is liberal progressive propaganda". Lots of people out there are very emotionally invested in the idea of adventurism under a heroic messianic figure.
Surprisingly i haven't seen any reaction from them, despite all the overt reference to Mahdism and the fact that this movie might as well be a documentary of the various apocalyptic Shia movements


>That's the implication, isn't it?
>it stands to reason that said pagans, heretics and doubters must have been rational free thinkers generally freed from such nonsense.
What it implies is that they weren't willing to believe any new thing they were being demanded to believe by an authority. You might instead believe in some spiritualist tradition tied to your locality (paganism). The particular characteristic you see in religious people today is a willingness to adopt a new (to them) ideology being pushed by people with power. Usually what you expect from people is to resist new belief systems like this (look at the history of colonialism trying to erase indigenous religions). There seems to be something specific in western cultures that opens people to embracing whatever new woo is being foisted onto them.


would u fug timothy chevrolet's dunccy


yes, if you took some spice you wouldn't need to ask the question


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This guy thinks, Harkonens are marxists. is he correct?



As a Muslim I recognize dune is art to express the artists criticism of Islam or religion in general and all of it whether fiction or debate and apologetics helps to push the conversation forward.


I mean the movie does hit different with the IsrPal conflict going on, all them terror attack on the harkonnen machinery really reminded me of some of these recent Resistance clips of destroying IDF tanks


so, Paul's jihad was basically Islamo-fascism, and the Harkonnens are actually the Soviets? Considering the Afghan war and how pivotal it was to islamofascism, it kind of makes sense… though really I fail to see how The Harkonnens are in any way communist.


>The Harkonnens are in any way communist.
nh is unironically a french cunt libby


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Why does "cultural criticism" attract so many pseuds?


ego and cope im guessing? your guess anon?


Easily accessible and lets people feel smart for doing basic readings of pop culture with Wikipedia-tier understanding of ideology.


Damn he got the exact same book that I've got, except mine looks kinda fatter for some reason.


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guilds are capitalist


infogalactic needs to get their shit together


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not too bad, guy is still a retard though


>What it implies is that they weren't willing to believe any new thing they were being demanded to believe by an authority.
Except the pagans were generally very willing to accept Jesus and the Christian God. What was difficult was getting them to drop the belief in their old gods and especially to get them to drop their old religious practices and festivals (which is partially why you see many Christian holidays which are essentially Christianized mock ups of pagan festivals).

The pagans weren't skeptics. It was quite the opposite. They were reluctant to give up their old beliefs, but were quite happy to accept new ones.


>guilds are capitalist
<the early basis for the formation of capitalism is capitalist
No, really!?


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Now that I think about it, Dune's initial story sort of resembles Cameron's Avatar, doesn't it? The whole traitor to his civilization joining the Noble Savages in defense of a a primitive, spiritualist society. >>31830


I mean that's not exactly an original idea, I'm sure there are stories from as far back as like the victorian era with that plot.


>13 13
> that's not exactly an original idea, I'm sure there are stories from as far back as like the victorian era with that plot
Probably earlier, I think there's at least a few Greek, Scandinavian and Chinese myths that have a similar idea. My point was more relative to modern media and just that it's resemblant.


It was a real thing that happened to many people, basically everywhere you had colonialism.


no avatar sucks, dune is a masterpiece


By the standards of the other people in the story they are savages, the same way even the most advanced human civilizations today would be seen as savages by Aliens visiting our planet.

I'm ambivalent to both. I liked the old Dune film better and Avatar was never a favorite of mine, though I liked it more than the sequel.


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the fremen are hamas
the emperor is biden
baron harkonnen is netanyahu


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>savage is a false term to castigate indigenous peoples invented by imperialist
<those that use it need to have their throats cut along with their wives and children and dogs
<"We're not savages, we're not savages!" He says while proposing to engage in savage behavior the Nazis did.
Liberal nonsense. They were called savages because the term existed to describe something wild and uncivilized, long before the New World was discovered, retard. It isn't a false-term because it was applied to people's that appeared savage to more developed societies. More importantly I'm speaking of savages relative to the Noble Savage trope, a trope in which your post is quite literally engaging in.


Frank Herbert Interview on Dune shortly after David Lynch's Dune came out in 1984. He passed away in 1986 which makes this one of his last filmed interviews. He discusses messiahs, cults, Leaders, technology, genes & religious commentary. From Great Ktca Read-A-Thon that aired 09/28/87. Filmed circa 1984, shortly before Herbert's death in 1986. Aired on PBS in 1987. Herbert opens by saying: "Well, my Arab friends wonder why it's called science fiction. DUNE, they say, is religious commentary… My own view of it is, 'Okay, we call it science fiction.'… I don't care what they call it."

For more context on what Herbert may have meant by this, see: Haris A. Durrani, TOR, "The Muslimness of Dune: A Close Reading of 'Appendix II: The Religion of Dune'"

Herbert does not appear to have made this statement as a way to simply say, "I have Arab friends" (as an apologetic or a claim to authority by proximity). It's a substantive comment, made in a somewhat amused offhand remark, about the core themes of the novels. Professor of Islamic history Ali Karjoo-Ravary, upon examining archives of Herbert's personal papers, told CBC the following:

>Q: These books were written in 1965. Frank Herbert's a pretty white American. Do we have a sense of why he chose to include these specific references in his books?

Karjoo-Ravary: One of the things that I realized in my research was that, even in the 1960s, English had been so intertwined with the Muslim world because of British colonialism, because the world was already pretty globalized. Herbert constantly said that he had Arab friends. He said he had Semitic friends, which I'm not sure what he meant by that, who helped him. Part of it was also me thinking, why are we so surprised? The world was actually already pretty globalized and pretty interconnected. So him just knowing English and French and having these friends was able to really dove deeply into the history of Islam and the Islamic world.

>Q: You mentioned that it sort of slips by some readers, but his editors certainly picked up on it. I'm assuming they weren't exactly keen on it.

Karjoo-Ravary: They weren't. One of them said, "You need to give us an explanation as to why there's so much Muslim flavour," in the editor's words. I think another editor also said, "What's up with all the Islam?" But also … his book, at first, it didn't do that well. And part of it was this insistence on the use of language, of using a lot of foreign words, not just Arabic. He's taking from a lot of different languages … and he was very adamant on using language to signify that you're not [in the present]. And he also really believed in slow build up and experimenting with different types of narrative and different types of sentence structure to give a slower pace than was usual in science fiction at that time.



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I was a bit disappointed by Dune : Part Two. I find it very slow-paced except the final which is just 30 minutes out of 165 minutes. The whole movie seemed like a big build-up for Dune Messiah.


really curious how they're gonna adapt Messiah. Shapeshifters and clones feel sort of out of place in Villenueve's Dune.


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PAUL ATREIDES flew his diesel ornithopter up to Sietch Tabr. “Damn I love being the Lisan al Gaib” he said, punching an imperial sardukar as he climbed out. “I think we should return Dune to the Harkonnens” said Chani. “Shut up libtard” came the reply from behind a cloud of spice melange. “Oh please Paul!” Said the shrewish atheist, “Northern Arrakis is the ancestral land of the Fremen people, where they have lived in an entirely irreligious utopia for thousands of years. They don’t even know what holy war is.”

“Sounds like WOKE NONSENSE to me!” guffawed Paul, his very presence introducing precious water into the ecosystem as he cracked a Miller High Life. “This is MAGA (Make Arrakis Green Again) country now bitch” he proclaimed before shooting interred Harkonnen prisoners with an unregistered lasgun. The other camp inmates scattered in terror, sheltering their non-binary bald pleasure slaves from the beams and slurs that now ripped through the sand dunes. “Kek” said Paul, stuffing a family atomic into the bomb bay of the ornithopter. “This is based. Just wait until 4chan hears about this”


I thought pt 1 was dumb and didn't make for a full narrative.



>Now that I think about it, Dune's initial story sort of resembles Cameron's Avatar, doesn't it?

'Resembling' is a funny word for something that is literally the critique of the other.


There literally is action scene every ten minutes.

It's almost like it's the first half of one book.


thats how movie 2 of a trilogy usually goes. it was worth the ticket price I'd imo, as opposed to say the matrix 2


>the matrix 2
That's the problem, Dune is not supposed to be the fucking Matrix trilogy. Dune is the pillar of modern SF and the new movies adaptations are supposed to be the new cultural cinematic phenomenon of the 2020's much like the Lord of the Ring movie trilogy in the 2000's. So we should compraed Dune : Part Two to The Two Towers instead.


Almost like trying to make a single story into multiple movies is a cheap cash grab.

Looking at you hobbit, deathly hollows, and dune.


to be fair Dune is a long ass book, it's almost three times as long as The Hobbit


The issue is it wasn't really built to be two seperate stories. Like lotr is basically one story, but Tolkien structured it to work as three. Fellowship's ending was kind of weak too tbf. Twin towers is a better example of how you can make a complete narrative out of a part of a larger one.

I think they should've made it a Dune HBO show or something instead. They did such a piss poor job explaining the lore in the dune movie.


Oh yeah and they fucked up not putting all the stuff that happens before the time skip in movie one. If they wanted to make it two movies they should've broken the story at the time skip instead of just before it.


They are gonna do a Bene Gesserit HBO show lmao.


LotR was actually structured to be six books.


pavl atreideez nuts


Muad'Dib did nothing wrong


they should've crammed it all into one 2.5 hour movie, it worked great for Lynch!


this is supposed to be based on one of the Brian Herbert books too so it'll probably be ass


I said a miniseries would be the best bet. A proper adaptation to fit a normal runtime would be the next best bet.

But ate we teally pretending chalamet isn't insufferable. 0 chemistry. I felt everyone was miscast. Paul, the duke, all his top men, his mom. Dunno if it is just because I read the book first but still.


Just sucks ass
>duke leto
Manlet didn't seem regal or cold or distant enough. Seens like a happy go lucky soft boy. He should be like bambi's father.
>lady jessica
Doesn't work as a femme fatale for me. Looks like a fucking nun instead. Too emotional.

So bad. Felt like a regional theatre play or something


Never watched it. Never will.
As an "oriental" from the "orient" I think you should kill yourselves


>>41641 (You)
Ok recasting.
Dunno there are few to none known young actors. Probably would end up with an unknown
Maybe even Brolin as Leto instead. He is kinda short too actually. Someone who can play an alpha hardass properly. Maybe Jon Hamm. Probably anyone but Oscar Isaac. The kind of silent hero of days of old like wayne or how bout not brolin but bronson(even if he is a manlet?) Or how bout liam niesen?
>lady jessica
A woman who has ever played a sexy role in their career. Maybe jolie or theron. I dunno. Someone that looks like a fucking succubus.


I don't really remember the Duke as a complete alpha hardass. He literally wheeped over muh hierachies and inegality in one scene.


He should feel inscrutable to Paul IMO. Well that is literally the story, to Jessica too. I don't mean he should be an asshole, talking about the outward face he brimgs to his role as duke. He should feel like a Ned Stark kimda IMO.


Like Paul in the book is clossr to his surrogate daddies than "the duke." His relationship to his father is more formal than personal. His father serves as a role model for the sacrifice he must make of putting his duty before his feelingss and familyl


"Orient" just means "east." "Oriental" just means "eastern."

Dune takes place on a desert planet, not somewhere east of Europe.


I think Chalamet did a good job as "Paul" in the first movie.

I think he just struggled to be "Muad'Dib."

It reminded me of that one Pirates of the Caribbean movie where Keira Knightley suddenly has to be the leader of a crew of pirates and she just doesn't have the presence for it.


I thought Timmy did a good job.


>I think he just struggled to be "Muad'Dib."
that fits though



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Bro what the fuck?
I didn't like the first movie but the second one was just ass.

People are praising Rebecca Ferguson and Timothee Chalamet for how they play the characters differently after the Water of Life (which is deserved tbf), but nobody's talking about how Stilgar feels like a completely different guy. Hell he feels like he's from a different genre. He was giving "plucky dumb comic relief sidekick" like Benny in The Mummy. It was the most distracting thing in the movie for me because it's so constant and clashes with the tone so badly. He even has an exchange with Gurney that references No Country For Old Men. Do you 'member that movie? I 'member!

Denny straight up butchered the plot.
>the significance of the water in the Sietches isn't properly explained so the reveal doesn't land, and the stuff about Lisan al-Ghaib leading them to paradise just sounds like fanaticism when the audience is supposed to know better
>spacing guild not even mentioned or implied to exist, and by extension the reason spice matters to everyone is not established
>other houses have so little agency that they all trust the Harkonnens to come to Arrakis despite the Harkonnens just killing off House Atreides on Arrakis
>political intrigue boiled down so much it's essentially just one conspiracy plot by the Emperor
>but actually he did it because Reverend Mother Mohiam manipulated him
>not only is that very dumb and oversimplifying, it contradicts this version of the story established in the first movie: why did she beg the Baron to spare Paul and Jessica if she was the one pulling the strings to begin with and actually wanted to destroy House Atreides?
This last one is baffling. It's a small amount of dialogue that didn't need to be there and it only makes the story worse. I guess maybe the idea was to go along with the rest of the movie giving the women more agency (which overall was good), but this part is on the level of fanfiction writing.


>He even has an exchange with Gurney that references No Country For Old Men.

what reference?


I like Dune


>>spacing guild not even mentioned or implied to exist, and by extension the reason spice matters to everyone is not established
It was in the first movie, dumbfuck. Modern audiences really don't need much more lore behind why spice is important for it to function since its clear as day its an analogue for a resource extracted from the third world by imperialist powers for their own gain, like oil in the middle east. Its driven home pretty strongly that spice is fucking expensive and thats why they want control over it.


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>As anything but white
My guy, dune litterally looks like the muslim population of the sahara. Mauritania, berbers, arabs. The muslim world is exactly "anything but white".


But him acting like a completely different was the whole point? That's what religious fanaticism does to people.


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After he succeeds his father Leto and takes up his title, he launches atomic warheads at the Emperor's forces.

This is the exact moment where Paul Atreides becomes Duke Nukem.


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>The Fremen /ˈfrɛmən/ are a group of people in the fictional Dune universe created by Frank Herbert. First appearing in the 1965 novel Dune, the Fremen inhabit the desert planet Arrakis and are based on the desert-dwelling Bedouin and Kalahari Bushmen
Oh no! A Black person! Must whine about muh race swapping!


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not that anon, The point is that Fremen at the in-universe are descended from an Egyptian population, the problem the Fremen are too diverse, with actors of full African, mixed-race, and a few of European descent. Like if you were to gather a population from all corners of the world, within a few generations a degree of racial homogeneity would emerge, I'm not saying the Fremen should resemble an exactly an Egyptuan crowd but having more actually more middle-eastern actors would have been something


>Herbert’s nuanced allegory of imperialism
Hahaha dude it's a pulp novel. It's not that deep. Just admit you're triggered by a Hollywood flick having people with melanin in it. Also if we're gonna be nerd lawyers about it, the Fremen are directly inspired by the tribes of some of the desert biomes of Africa. Their cultural traits are a mishmash of orientalism throwing together anything east of Greece. Their religion is closer to Buddhism than Islam as well.


>Hahaha dude it's a pulp novel. It's not that deep.
"The drapes are just blue."


>not that anon, The point is that Fremen at the in-universe are descended from an Egyptian population
It never says that in the book.


the fremen's term for themselves is literally Misr


Well, "race" and categorizations like "white" or "black" are pseudoscientific concepts without support by genetics. "Race" is based on other people looking different and people falsely attributing difference based on just appearing to be different, not due to them actually being different (which they are not, at least appreciably, all human populations are very closely related). We do not look at evolutionary relationships with phenotypes for a very good reason. So, since race is not based on genetics, it is also not based on inheritence (it is correlated with inheretence however). If someone has the common phenotypes of X notion of "race", then they will for all intents and purposes be X, since X is not based on genetics (what is inherited), and is instead based on the phenotypes of X (not inherited, but is associated with genetics), which the person in question has (especially since phenotype is the cause of bigotry, not genetics).


The question is consistency. The movies had no trouble giving the Harkonnens a consistent and distinct appearance. So why are the Fremen so diverse? You'd think the most diverse group would be the Saudaukar who are bred from prisoners sent to Salusa Secundus, not Fremen who are highly adapted to a single-biome planet.


>The point is that Fremen at the in-universe are descended from an Egyptian population,
>Actually, the Sardaukar are descendants of Iranians and Northern Indians.
Bro are you citing your own fan fiction? I can't find anything that said any of this.


Actually, the Sardaukar are descendants of Iranians and Northern Indians. They were implied to be intellectuals instead of warriors and were placed on a cold hell world as punishment for some transgression. Over the centuries, the harsh environment and infighting between the groups changed them, transforming their culture and even their ethnic appearance into groups that appeared more


>Misr: The historical Zensunni (Fremen) term for themselves: "The People". Apparently the Misr Sunni ancestors fled from Nilotic al-Ourouba to become the Fremen and or Zensunni.


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Ok, but then doesn't this make the Sardaukar in the movies a case of whitewashing?


not really, they just became white


That's what "whitewashing" means in this context.


Exactly. Everyone is implied to be race/religion mixed in the Dune.
>Nilotic al-Ourouba was the probable original home of the Zensunni, the Misr. Nilotic al-Ourrouba is likely referring to the name of a location on Old Earth, encompassing the areas of Egypt, the Nile Valley and maybe some additional areas of North Africa, and/or the Middle East.
Complete speculation on the part of the wiki author. That's all it says.
> "our Sunni ancestors fled from Nilotic al-Ourouba"
Nothing about Old Earth.


You didn't give me a source for this Sardaukar stuff at all.


its not that talked about in the first books, where its just name you gave to off on, but in the sequel books by his son they are explicity stated to be the descendents of the Sikhs


>the sequel books by his son they are explicity stated to be the descendents of the Sikhs

This doesn't make any sense because they are recruited from a prisoner population from the imperial prisoner planet. They can't be the descendants of any single ethnic group. The crap the son wrote is shitty fan fiction and not canon.


Fremen are also based on the Tuareg (that's where all the references to the blue color come from) and the Tuareg are a ethno-cultural group that extends all the way from the Northern Sahara to the Sahel and can look 'middle-eastern' to straight up Black.
One skin color = one culture is America-brained.

>Their cultural traits are a mishmash of orientalism throwing together anything east of Greece. Their religion is closer to Buddhism than Islam as well.

This is lazy superficial analysis. Actual middle eastern scholars that watched Dune comment on how they are impressed that Herbert integrated key elements of Islamic theology. While Dune obviously features orientalist elements calling every form of media that does featuree middle-eastern elements orientalist shlock is just intellectually lazy.


>he launches atomic warheads at the Emperor's forces.

He doesn't, he uses the nukes for the shield wall in an attempt to have plausible deniability for a non-violation of the great convention to not undermine his legitimacy in front of the great houses for his coup to succeed.


That garbage his idiot son "wrote" shouldn't be considered canon.


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Um actually, it's literally impossible for a white Western person to understand any sort of culture and religion from the global south. An Arab American who lived his entire life in America and studied English literature said it, so it must be true


That is NOT what he said


>the Sikhs will have the same phenotypes after 10,000 years in outer space


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>Prison Planet
The correct phenotype for the Sardaukar is Alex Jones.


He's going to prison very soon after all.


>baseless claim about the ethnic origin of a people's canonically twenty thousand fucking years into the future to try and make some race panic over how it's impossible and woke for an society covering a desert the size of an entire fucking planet to have multiple groups with distinct phenotypes welded together into a single culture through canon religious conquest by the bene gesuist and United in a fight against an overwhelming imperialist force bend to genocide them.

Light skin and all phenotypes are less than 10k years old irl, my guy.


Unlike IRL the Fremen are shown to be in contact with each other across the globe and routinely travel across the planet, so the effects of genetic drift on them would not be as strong as they are on Earth in our real history and prehistory. Given that in the story the Fremen are said to have various adaptations specific to Arrakis (like resistance to bleeding), they have some common ancestry and have adapted to the planet. You would expect to see variations, and arguably more than in many other parts of the Imperium (especially the nobles are practicing eugenics).

What you wouldn't expect is pretty much the whole spectrum of what you see on IRL Earth. We have a lot more conditions than one big desert. Given how white-dominated the Imperium is in the movies (a handful of characters like Yueh and Thufir aside) it seems like a deliberate casting choice, to contribute to the geopolitical coding of the characters and reality subtext of the movies - making the Fremen more representative of the global south in general. That's a fine choice to make in isolation, but it does clash with the themes of Dune (which are themselves problematic at times). It's sort of trying to have your cake and eat it too between grounded worldbuilding and symbolic impact. In the source material, that was already done by having the specificity and uniqueness of the Fremen contribute to the representation of an oppressed people, rather than being more of a melting pot.

The movies don't have time to delve into much detail so the overall effect was always going to genericize the Fremen, and it seems like they leaned into that by intentionally casting the Fremen as much more diverse than the rest of the cast. IMO that choice would work better thematically if the movies had also leaned into the mythic elements or had used a framing device like Princess Irulan's quotations to make the story feel more symbolic than literal. But that potentially would have worked against the cautionary tale by romanticizing it. There's a lot on the table thematically, and it's challenging to balance those pieces against each other. The choices they make in that regard reflect the popular zeitgeist within Hollywood, which in terms of anti-racism tends to be pretty simplistic and surface level. Hollywood is not really the best place to go for anti-imperialist propaganda even if now and then you have somewhat exceptional examples popping up.


Given that the Fremen are semi nomadic peoples they have similar interactions to the Taureg and Berbers irl over similar distances. Thats plenty of isolation to develop distinct phenotypes over distant, especially given the high selective pressure in such an environment.
15 thousand years is plenty time to develop "special adaptations" such as quicker blood clothing to prevent moisture loss given that such variation is already present in todays population and it just a question of selection and duplication of genes, which happens fairly quickly in an environmentally highly selective environment.

Also who care. Why aren't you talking about the erasure of the identity of the harkonnens.


>Also who care. Why aren't you talking about the erasure of the identity of the harkonnens.

Ugh, the F*nns…


>Also who care. Why aren't you talking about the erasure of the identity of the harkonnens.
I can. It makes the lineage stuff bizarre. If Jessica is half Harkonnen what happened to all the freaky Harkonnen traits? In the book they are redheads and she is a redhead. She's more closely related to the Baron than Feyd is lol. I guess because the rest of the characters didn't really get much attention on planetary adaptation, they went to the extreme with the Harkonnens (also because they're bad guys and making them more inhuman works for that purpose).

>Thats plenty of isolation to develop distinct phenotypes over distant

Yeah that's what I said. It's just a matter of degree. Arrakis doesn't have that much variation in environment compared to Earth. You would expect a lot more diversity on Caladan since the wetter climate allows more diverse environments. House Atreides is relatively diverse compared to the rest of the Imperium, but not compared to the Fremen. Giedi Prime being homogeneous pod people makes the most sense given they live in a mostly artificial environment. Being super fair skinned and fair haired fits with that in the original version too, but keeps them less alien.


paul is sort of like trump if u think about it

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