/labor/ - Labor

>>717
I knew a Teamster who had a kind of balanced view of the Hoffa mafia goons, like yeah they were corrupt but if the boss wasn't cooperating then he'd get the front door of his house blown off in the middle of the night.

The "worst" things I have seen union members actually do to apply pressure to negotiations was break a water main in the basement of a skyscraper and drive a big container handling forklift off a dock.
It would be great if we lived in a world where unions could simply make the case that the cost of living has risen and we need an adjustment but in this reality ruled by greed sometimes that isn't enough.

>>719
yeah maybe killing seems excessive tbh but at this point in time well

>>717
Unions are too weak, corrupt, ideologically retarded and (ironically) disunited for this. The state will crack down and win.

Personally wouldn't like to see violence committed unless it was self-defense.
There have certainly been cases in history where workers put in fatal conditions have rightfully responded with self-defense.
It's a complicated issue.

>>722
look at tesla. They just all got kicked out and replaced by indians. All of them.

>>723
I-indians. Mein gott.

>>724
NTA, immigration being used for wage supression is real and bad.

>>723
>>725
Well, it seems to just not have happened anon.
Other than this don't have a strong defense at the moment.
Wages fall to subsistent levels naturally, unless there's a fight.

>>726
>Wages fall to subsistent levels naturally
If it was naturally there wouldn't be any need to own the media, make political donations and change laws.
Real wages fall because a lot of people make a very deliberate effort to push them down, importing people that will work for less because the exchange rate means any small amount they can send home is a lot is just another way to force it down.

>>718
>yeah they were corrupt but if the boss wasn't cooperating then he'd get the front door of his house blown off in the middle of the night.
It was basically a protection racket.They were corrupt against rank and file union members ,as well.
https://jacobin.com/2019/10/jimmy-hoffa-the-irishman-martin-scorsese-film-teamsters
<sweetheart deals with management
<payments into the pension fund not being made
<no accountability to the rank and file
<troublesome anti-Hoffa workers getting sacked

>>727
>If it was naturally there wouldn't be any need to own the media, make political donations and change laws.
Most of this is to prevent a fight, or undo fights that have been won by those who came before us.

>Real wages.
It's not just real wages that are dropping, it's expenses that are rising.
A house, or college education for example cost three times more after inflation since they did in the 60s.

>Importing people.
Have never had to make this argument before, so know there are many people who could do a better job.
My understanding is the argument is basically that there have been empirical studies and there's limited effect on wages.
Not sure why this would be from a Marxist economics perspective.

>>729
(in fact real wages aren't dropping.)

>>729
>it's expenses that are rising
That's what real wages means, the amount you are paid increases but because prices have risen more real wages have decreased.
>empirical studies and there's limited effect on wages
Look at where those studies come from, it's unironically bankers and industry lobby groups most of the time.

>>731
>The meaning of real wages is inflation adjusted.
Didn't realize how technical this was. The index weights of the CPI used to compute the real wages don't align with actual household spending. It skews towards recreation, and other non-necessities. The real wages have gone up, but the statistics are skewed, so don't reflect the actual cost on households.

>The empirical studies are ideologically motivated.
Think the Marxist argument would be that they don't significantly increase the surplus army of labor, but am not sure. Would be interested in someone else, who's more knowledgable, giving it a go.

>>732
i dont know maybe the marxist interpretation is that theyre to exploit the working class cause thats what they do

>>732
So apparently Marx when it came to the Irish claimed that they drove wages down. He also argued that the most dire effect was in dividing (due to chauvinism, and material concerns) the working-class stifling their ability to organize together against their oppressor. He called this "the secret of the impotence of the English working class." They also dip into the literature and emphasize that being undocumented significantly depreciates wages, among other things.

https://monthlyreview.org/2017/02/01/marx-on-immigration/

Normalize kneecapping scabs again tbqhdesu

>>729
>it's expenses that are rising
When expenses rise all classes are affected, read Marx please.

>>717
Every compromise you make is just a betrayal against the self
Take me for example. I was so impressed with the takedown of 4chan i legitimately thought soyjak party could listen to reason. We'd prove mods just don't need to exist and I'd introduce beareaucratic socialism to them to ween them off the drug of transhumanist janny tyranny where like
>you just delete posts not ban
>someone oversees you before you delete the post and/or you pay crypto to permit the post deletion

Instead, i get jannied and defamed while so. Of course i do. All mods need a bat to the head. There's no reasoning with them, no bargaining, no prioritizing. That's how you have to face all challenges is a fucking bat until the thing against you stops moving

Mafia involvement in unions made them less effective, not more effective. The mafia are among the most bloodthirsty and reactionary cross-section of the petty bourgeoisie and lumpenproletariat. They take over unions in order to give their sons "no-show" jobs, spy on the labor movement for the FBI in exchange for reduced sentences for horrible crimes they did, and in general skim union dues for their coke and hooker habits. Cosa Nostra are scumbags who will kidnap and rape your daughter and then turn her out as a hooker. They're the worst of the worst. A lot of Mafia guys were pro Italian fascism. And they're in bed with the worst crooks in the film industry which constantly pumps out shitty media to make them look relatable and cool.

I wouldn't be surprised if mafia infiltration of unions was a long term goal of the intelligence apparatus in the US state in order to ruin the reputation of unions by associating them with organized crime.

Listen to these deconstructions of union depictions in Hollywood movies


https://citationsneeded.libsyn.com/ep-164-labor-union-depictions-in-hollywood-part-i-from-demonized-to-ignored-or-mafia-plot-cliche

https://citationsneeded.libsyn.com/ep-165-labor-union-depictions-in-hollywood-part-ii-the-rare-pro-worker-narrative