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/leftypol/ - Leftist Politically Incorrect

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How strong is the far-left in France? Is being a communist socially acceptable there?


The far left in France is and always has been retarded. Even in Marx's day, they were a bunch of imbeciles led by midwits like Proudhon or psychos like Blanqui. Nobody should take them seriously. Even their best intellectuals ended up quitting the left entirely. As they say in Africa, nothing good comes from France.


Althusser was not that bad tho


he did kill his wife though?


<best guy you could come up with afaik organized nothing of note, killed his wife and got asylum'd.


Not strong and it won't be. Communism is dying out everywhere.


Althusser was a batshit crazy schizophrenic. Foucault, Baudrillard, Deleuze etc. are all basically post-left and its easy to see why. Even fucking Satre abandoned the French left. Just look at the French Marxists and French Maoists. Those people were fucking insane. The 68 movement leftists won't STFU about was literally a bunch of students protesting for the right to visit the girls dorms and have sex and when they got that right they went back home to fuck. That's not a revolutionary movement.

French revolutionism gave birth to the left and its also the cancer that's eating it up from the inside too. The French revolution was a mistake and we need to stop fucking romanticizing it.


Althusser was basically just a western Maoist. Really after a short hegelian phase in the 50s, his whole project was rationalizing Mao's though with Marxism.


yeah he killed his wife when he was old and schizo as fuck, what gives? doesn't invalidate his theoretical work
almost like denying Marx because he basically lived on Engel's money


Since we don't have a /fra/ general board, this could be the one, where people talk french and shit talk their country left parties and stuff.


Althusser's theories are now mostly irrelevant anyway. Foucault practically replaced him.


Althusser's theories are now mostly irrelevant anyway. Foucault practically replaced him.


>That's not a revolutionary movement.
Could have been if the communist party weren't opportunist cowards and the Kremlin's little bitches, they joined late when the movement was already blossoming into a general strike and they refused to take power when they could.


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Have to return to tradition.
>The French Revolution was a mistake
>The revolution's model that made possible: the Haitian, Soviet, Chinese, and Cambodian revolution was a mistake.
Surprised your Napoleonic hands are large enough to use a keyboard.


>Is being a communist socially acceptable there?

I mean, kind of, it depends. At least calling yourself a Communist or openly identifying as one isn't illegal in the sense it is in Germany or the US, so you have to play some pretend game. The PCF is still pretty relevant nationally and even more at the local level despite selling-out a few times or slowly bleeding out. You have hundreds of 'Communist' mayors all over France, especially in the Banlieues of big urban centers.


so you don't have to play pretend games'



It never would have. Why did the Kremlin not support it? A revolution in France, which would have created a left government that was probably anti-Soviet, would still have destabilized NATO's dominance of Western Europe and forever removed France from ever playing a role in NATO and the EU. It was in the Kremlin's interest to support it or allow it to go ahead. So why did they not? Because the CPSU's foreign relations people knew that there was no real chance of a revolution there at all and sponsoring it or giving it a little push would have been a waste of money.

Why? Firstly, there was a lack of common leadership or networks across social groups that could effectively organize and mobilize people towards a revolution. Second, there were always tensions between the students and the workers' unions. Students just wanted to get laid while workers wanted better conditions. The students with their retarded sex obsessed avant-garde ideology decided the workers were retarded and they needed to lecture and preach the virtues of anal group sex to those dumb blue collar savages. Meanwhile, the workers simply wanted better conditions and pay and hated the students arrogant and foolish beliefs. It was clear that the protest movement was prone to collapse. Third, the French authorities had a strong autocratic state and a strong military that were in perfect position to coup or contain a revolution if it were to take place. 68 was never going to succeed and it wasn't even revolutionary because all the students cared about was having sex. That's a very easy demand to satisfy. Much easier than improving working conditions.

Napoleon was as much a product of the French revolution as Robespierre. And yes the French revolution's model was a mistake. You know why? Because leftoids and even Iranian Islamists took the French revolution as a model. They assumed that since the French did X, Y and Z then they also had to do it even if it was unnecessary. There were many purges in China, Russia, Iran etc. which were entirely unnecessary but the idea was "ah well this is how all revolutions are just look at France." This kind of schizo thinking is why Zhou Enlai was famously ambiguous about the French revolution. The whole reason the Soviet Union and China became autocratic guided democracy (aka dictatorships) with mass purges was because France did it and therefore we have to do it. It was totally insane and false and ultimately destroyed the USSR and nearly did the same thing to China.

Leftists have a really poor understanding of what the French revolution actually was. If the Jacobins were around today we'd call them fascists because that's closer to what they truly were.

The left will do much better if we just abandon this obsessive French revolution larping and get rid of the French model of revolution for a more sane approach to revolution founded on a better strategy and empirical observations of what works and doesn't work. Part of the left's backwardness is because they are just like those dumb French generals at the beginning of WW1 who had their soldiers dress up in Napoleonic uniforms and goose step across no man's land, not realizing machine guns, heavy artillery, and barbed wire exist. We need to stop this obsessive copying of the French.


Another glowanon trying to dictate what the Left should do…


>nothing good comes from France
Plenty of good and bad came from france. The red flag come from paris commune. And the guillotine ofc.
The french revolution was a shining example and inspiration for all progressives for decades.

>Even their best intellectuals ended up quitting the left entirely

no ? Sartre ? De Beauvoir ? Clouscard ? Debord ?
And post 1945, the PCF did gain absolutely massive concessions from porkies to the benefits of workers, the neolib still havent managed to completely destroy what was obtained there, especially social security.

>literally a bunch of students protesting
yeah, the movement won when the worker joined in a general strike though, and again significant gains for workers, with the added benefit of all porkies shitting their pants (de gaulle even ran to germany). There was absolutely revolutionary potential there. Dont worry though, the far left did do the criticism of 68, the libs are the ones wanking a lot about it

>its also the cancer that's eating it up from the inside

what the fuck are you on about.

>The French revolution was a mistake

no, fuck you

>we need to stop fucking romanticizing it.

no, fuck you

damn look at me getting all defensive and nationalist

>>1880090 (OP)
like everywhere, collapsed with ussr, but still we have few far left parties that carries the ideas in modern electoral spectacle, and our main left opposition party is on many things more radical than average euro socdem. And yes, its still completely socially acceptable in most circles, although many will separate themselves from (and/or denounce) real socialist projects.


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I met a pretty well-informed left-wing journalist who spoke French and spent time there and asked him about it and he said it's not very strong. Really it's that France is roughly split three ways between left (Melenchon), center (Macron), and the right (Le Pen).

>The French revolution was a mistake
Woah, hey!


>The students with their retarded sex obsessed avant-garde ideology decided the workers were retarded and they needed to lecture and preach the virtues of anal group sex to those dumb blue collar savages
the fuck are you on about. Theres plenty of reasonable criticism to make, but this aint one of them. Far left was strong among students, and sex was far from the only thing they wanted, even if the movement started by wanting to stop segregating schools (which was still a good thing to ask btw).

>The whole reason the Soviet Union and China became autocratic guided democracy (aka dictatorships)

oh you're a retard, ofc

>was because France did it

yep, nothing to do with material reasons and real political struggle, just cargo cultism
what a dumb fucking post


>let's just bargain with porky for the share of our own exploitation
Kys rightoid and tell your friends at A More Perfect Union to gas themselves


They are a faction of the radicals of France. Anti-status quo, at least in rethoric. I would say France has the highest ammount of "radicals" in Europe.


France is probably the most class conscious country in all of the European core atm


>Leftists have a really poor understanding of what the French revolution actually was. If the Jacobins were around today we'd call them fascists because that's closer to what they truly were.
I think Napoleon is closer to being fascist than they were

You are correct the French Revolution was living rent free in the heads of all these subsequent revolutionaries though, and they thought their revolutions were going to play out exactly the same way and acted accordingly

Saying the whole thing was a mistake is going too far though. Maybe they should have stopped before purging the girondins


Including the French capitalist class though. lol


yes they were such fascists that all that fascists talk about is how much they hate the enlightenment and the french revolution


>Because the CPSU's foreign relations people knew that there was no real chance of a revolution there at all
Yeah this is it and totally not because the USSR had completely abandoned internationalism at that point!


CPSU did not throw away internationalism. In the 60s they supported multiple communist and national liberation movements. More crucially outside the imperial core that benefitted from colonization. France was likely not going to succeed compared to Angola for example.


weird how they were actively supporting revolutionaries in every other continent


The student movement in 68 was not a revolutionary movement period. Sure, they did have legitimate grievances (as well as illegitimate ones) but they were not going to overthrow the state anytime soon. What made May 68 different was that workers got involved and there were grassroots strikes and occupations on a huge scale. But these workers and protesters/rioters in working class districts weren't all leftists bent on revolution. They had different aims, different beliefs, and different objectives. There was no common revolutionary thread that held all of these groups together. The idea that there were months long mass protests led by students and workers all coming together around a new left ideology is a myth created by the student 68ers themselves. They wrote dozens of nostalgic books about May 68 that created an enduring myth of a great revolution that almost came but didn't.

>even if the movement started by wanting to stop segregating schools (which was still a good thing to ask btw)

I'm pretty mixed about this. Some of the changes brought about by student movements in the 60s were harmful to the academic establishment in negative ways. Its one of the contributing factors for why academia so god damn corrupt, dysfunctional, and anti-intellectual these days. Neoliberalism has played a role but so did a psychotic student movement high on their own avant-garde bullshit.

>yep, nothing to do with material reasons and real political struggle, just cargo cultism

I hate how you dogmatic Marxists do this. Just wheel out "material conditions" like a chatbot whenever anyone brings up ideological motivations as if people don't think and have ideas which go on to shape how they respond to material circumstances. Communists and anarchists, as far back as Marx's own days, idolized the French revolution to an unhealthy degree. They believed the French revolution was this amazing event in human history and the most recent example of a total transformation of society. They looked to the French to develop strategies and models to guide their own behavior and develop a theory of revolution and their view of that period was rose-tinted and extremely self-serving. This cultish obsession with re-enacting scenes from French revolutionary history directly fed into how they made political decisions and responded to material conditions on the ground.

The Soviet Union might have survived had they not insisted on copying and re-playing a script handed down by the French. Why carry out unnecessary purges? The French did it. Why launch top down social engineering projects to change culture or launch crusades against religion? The French did it. Why establish authoritarian committees of technocrats to circumvent and "temporarily guide" the revolutionary democracy you'd just built? Because that's what they did in France. The Bolsheviks even named a god damn battleship after Jean Paul Marat, a guy who was basically a tabloid writer and shit stirrer who whipped up mob violence against mostly innocent people.

And before any smug anarchists get any ideas, you do this too with Catalonia. I've seen anarchists get upset that say the Zapatistas or "the Kurds" haven't replicated X or Y policy from Catalonia, and even the anarchists cult worship the French revolution.

There is little to no empirical studies of revolutions beyond France, Russia, and Catalonia circlejerk with the same poorly evidenced truisms repeated over and over again and evidence to the contrary is dismissed. "you have to purge people during a revolution" or "all revolutions are bloody and ruthless in ways that make them worse than war" etc. Its a great irony that the supposedly progressive left is so backward looking and conservative. Repeat the past, read the same books, rinse and repeat. Its shameful.

Napoleon was a pragmatist who was trying to balance the revolution while trying to bring France (and himself) back into the European fold and create a liberal monarchy. In that sense, he was conservative compared to the Jacobins and Girondans but still a radical in the eyes of Europe's established monarchies. He carried over many ideas from the revolutionary period and tried to integrate them into his own form of government creating a unique hybrid. But when you examine the rhetoric and behavior of the Jacobins you can see how proto-fascistic they were. The French Republic would be an ethnostate for a French nation where everybody would speak the same language, follow the same state mandated beliefs, where mass surveillance was used for the first time in its primitive form, and all who resisted were put to death. The ideologies of the French revolution was a mix of French Enlightenment liberalism of populist and aristocratic varieties, misinterpretations of Rousseau, and larping the Roman Republic combined with extreme xenophobic nationalism.

There is a lot more continuity between the radical revolutionary period and the Napoleonic era than most leftists would like to admit. Its strategic because you can then blame a ton of bad things on Napoleon and use him as a fall guy, which is what Trotskyists do with Stalin and anarchists do with Lenin, and then pretend everything was okay until the villain took over. Pretty ironic considering how the same people are sticklers for material conditions and oppose big man theories of history only to do it themselves when it suits them.

You only put bets on the horse that has a chance of winning. Whenever there was a revolutionary group undermining NATO or America, the Soviets and Chinese gave them generous support and competed with each other to back them. This didn't happen in May 68 because the Soviets knew that it wasn't going to lead to a full blown revolution. They were more concerned that Maoism was spreading in Europe than another French revolution. It was a storm in a tea cup.


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They suspended an MP for showing a Palestine flag so they just became the flag.



Communists are lolcows in the west, especially leninists, it's more socially acceptable than calling yourself a Nazi but still pretty leftfield


being a communist is ridiculed in france + no one knows what the fuck it consists of except stereotypes of rigid equality and staline, literally the only things they can think of.
the overton window is way on the right now, mélenchon is considered not far left anymore (extrême gauche) but ultra left (he's a socdem)
also people who vote mélenchon think they're marxist leninists and actual MLM tell people to vote socdem
shit's fucked up and retarded


same as everywhere else then


Insane to believe how right wingers managed to defeat leftists everywhere. Leftists ideas don't appeal to anyone anymore. Workers vote for their own enslavement in hopes of lower taxes


>"You did this to yourself"
Leftists have spent the last century or so doing their best to alienate and annoy pretty much everybody


You are right, vbut half of the workers don't vote. So hopelessness and apathy is a problem too.


This. The french bourgeoisie is very class conscious.
For the working class, it's not this though. There was the yellow vests movement which made people regain class consciousness, but since the left didn't make anything out of it (except for marginal people like Ruffin), it soon became a good electoral basis for the far right. Because the french are very anti-establishment - but not anti-authoritarian. There is a good tradition of anti-etatism and de-centralization, not in a libertarian or anarchist way, but rooted in anti-establishment as well. France also has a lot of (somewhat) communist institutions (Sécurité Sociale, intermittence).


No they're not. They're just gonna vote for the right-wing party waiting for their life to magically improve again.


D'ailleurs qui était à République ? C'était déprimant, que des jeunes et des étudiants, clairement pas l'ambiance 2002.


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For the anglo anons, LFI, PCF, EELV, PS, and their subordinates just agreed to a political alliance called the Front Populaire. There are literally spontaneous anti-fascist demonstrations celebrating it.



>I follow French politics closely, here are a few thoughts :

>First timing is definitely key here : Macron is calling the elections as soon as he can : in a mere 20 days. Most of his opponents are not ready : they have no candidates selected for many constituencies, there remain bitter rivalries between allies, etc.

>Second, this move is likely less intended against the far-right and more again his left. The socialist coalition made marked improvements in the European elections, coming very close to beating Macron's own Renaissance (14% to 14,6%). Macron is likely more vulnerable from the left than from the right, and the timing is quite bad for the left-wing parties due to internal disagreements and lack of a common platform.

>Third, more broadly, I believe he is trying to consolidate the French political landscape between the far-right and his party as the liberal alternative. This is the more striking results of his last 3 elections. Should there be but 2 parties, it is likely that the far-right won't get a majority soon.

>Fourth (a tad less seriously), the French team is the favorite to win the Euro 2024 football championship which will be played at the same time as the election (June, 14 - July 14, compare with the election on June 30, July 7). So he may intend to play on the French team's success for his own campaign…


cursed dubs for based news
(very impressed that the PS agreed to it so quickly)


how much support do they have?


10% of vooters (which is approx. 50% of people who are registered to vote)


>>1882122 (me)
Correcting with socdems and greens : ~30%


Are these commie orgs or just libs standing together with other libs for a few weeks for safe protests?


wtf, french elections only have like 20% turnout?


No he is coping about the majority choosing reactionary politicians over ones that would benefit them


Those are purely lib, reformist, electoral parties or movements. There are commie (mostly trotskysts) orgs which haven't signed this.
What do you mean by that? I was wrong on the total of the electoral left percentage (I first only thought of LFI)


Wait how, wasn't PS acting very annoying?


I think the anon meant that only 50% of people registered to vote actually do, and 10% of those vote LFI.


Trotzkyist splitters at it again.


<Marine Le Pen described Russian President Vladimir Putin as a "defender of the Christian heritage of European civilisation." The National Front considers that Ukraine has been subjugated by the United States, through the Revolution of Dignity. The National Front denounces anti-Russian feelings in Eastern Europe and the submission of Western Europe to "Washington's" interests in the region. Marine Le Pen is very critical against the threats of sanctions directed by the international community against Russia: "European countries should seek a solution through diplomacy rather than making threats that could lead to an escalation." She argues that the United States is leading a new Cold War against Russia. She sees no other solution for peace in Ukraine than to organise a kind of federation that would allow each region to have a large degree of autonomy.


In France? Literally the last time they did this which led to the establishment of labor rights in France. Have you ever touched a history book?


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PS not acting like total retards is extremely impressive. We are so fucking back. VIVE LE FRONT POPULAIRE


There's a pretty big gap between killing your wife and having your bff pay your rent, just sayin


There is shock and seethe in the media right now. It's funny to witness. Hell it suprised us that PS actually did this


Just realized PS just doing this because now they can be at the top of all lists and possibly the presidential candidacy because now they are nominally larger than LFI.


I doubt that they can get their way that much when LFI,especially Ruffin is pushing super hard for the Popular Front. It is clear Ruffin wants to be lead the effort and be the candidate in the next presidential election.


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Flood detected; Post discarded.


Watched some French Tv pundits and the center+right is going full-steam ahead with their smear campaign. Now the entire French left is anti-semitic and getting the Corbyn treatment apparently.


That means she is a populist and no doubt she will continue funding Ukrainian neo-nazis.


>empowering the far right to shut out the left
now where have i heard this one before


Lmao one of the succdem party (not PS) left the Popular front just hours after the agreed to it. What a joke. At least now the Popular Front is free from its cancers. All that is left now is to either intergrate NPA and LO or get them to stand down and endorse the Popular Front.


who left?


Can someone explain to me what this means?


Place publique is out. Mouvement Républicain et Citoyen, NPA, Les Radicaux de Gauche wants in.


They are literally the most neolib element. I. am not shocked.


Various left wing parties are joining for a unity ticket for the upcoming French parliamentary elections in order to avoid being crushed between Le Pen and Macron.


this, glucksman is basically early macron pretending to be leftist, Im glad they are not in the coalition, hope they crash and burn because they seriously thought a good score at euro election means anything


>neolib replaced marxist
in academia, yes


Big news


We are in a total RN victory path : with the PS refusing to uniting LFI if Mélenchon stay as the leader and Républicains submitting to RN, the parliament will be absolutely dominated by the RN (even if some Républicains will side with Macron)


>neolibs have cooties
Anything that demystifies social control is a valid addition to the Marxist reading list. Antyhing that doesn't can go to hell.




Holy fuck, huge news, this is the rump party of the French conservatives and part of EPP, formerly France's europhile right-wing. Big taboos are being broken right now.

Macron has pulled a Hindenburg and the Center-right is following suit endorsing fascism.


It seems Le Pen has given up on being anti Euro so it makes sense I guess


>It seems Le Pen has given up on being anti Euro so it makes sense I guess
Not that surprising, always seemed opportunist, there has always been a strong pan-european tendency within fascism.


>French Left: Fuck it, we ball. Popular Front 2.0!

>French Right: Two can play that game!

<Republicans imploding with members leaving literally a hour after >>1882693
<RN doesn't want to associate with Reconqueste for being too cringe

France is in chaos, the situation is excellent!


Now I got what kind of game Brigitte's husband is playing: he wants a chaotic, hung parliament so that he can carry on with his IVPITERIAN presidency for the next three years until he has to fuck off. Galaxy brain stuff at work here.


Let's not forget that in 2017 soCIAlist ministers had agreed on an unwritten plan in case Le Pen would have won those year's presidential election. Basically, they would have enacted a state of emergency to crush a possible leftwing uprising or something like that.


>Brigitte's husband
kek. i'm going to use this from now on.


Okay, we have a front populaire but what now? how can they take more seats than le pen in just 3 weeks?


Even if you simply add the results of the left and the succdems they don't reach the total of the RN, and it's probable that a not insignificant number of voters will not be down with the alliance for various reasons, chief among them that LFI's attacked every day from the right and there's enormous pressure for the other parties to distance themselves from them. Also there's been zero time to agree on anything so they'll have very little credibility for how they're planning to handle things after the election. Everyone knows they're gonna backstab each other at the first opportunity.

Two things can still somewhat work against the RN: European elections typically have a bigger part of protest votes so it's not impossible that they'll have a lesser score this time, and there might be a more energized vote against them following the current shitshow.

I wouldn't count on it though. RN can still win big just because every other party is in complete chaos.


The youngest French communist is 45 years old.


but has the proletarian gained class consciousness? Everyone talks about the vanguard until the popular masses revolt against the revolutionary minority.


Nothing ever happens


>Everyone talks about the vanguard until the popular masses revolt against the revolutionary minority.

Basically never happened, the vanguard is that good for the working class in an historical analysis.


>in an historical analysis
I'm gonna need an N for that whig shit, bot


it could also be just establishment realizing that Macron is probably done and best thing now ally with national rally to assert some leverage on them and eventually suffocate and subdue them.


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At the very least, their formation denies RN the majority.

>Also there's been zero time to agree on anything so they'll have very little credibility for how they're planning to handle things after the election. Everyone knows they're gonna backstab each other at the first opportunity.
They literally done this before with okayish results. Just redo the policies they wanted as NUPES. If anything what you said applies to the french right. They can accuse RN of wanting to keep the pension retirement reform coz they are willing to ally with those that do.


If they formed the NUPES during the first presidential round they would have handily won the presidency LFI alone only missed it by a few percentage points.


That's true but tbf the polling didn't suggest that at the time. Melenchon exceeded all expectation in that one.


It's incredible how disliked Melenchon is among the other party elites, down to the personal level, despite the fact that he is a brilliant political strategist and orator.


I guess because he is genuinely hostile to the establishment. Plus he doesn't seem like a nice man to hang out with.


Socialists used to dominate French politics for decades, you find a lot of communists on the local level still and quite a few commie mayors. They have gone down the absolute drain since 2012 though


But what happened?


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NPA joins the popular front.


this is such an embarassing larp
i wish it wasn't this way, but literally all of these parties except FI are completely irrelevant


Macron happened, he was a socialist party member and look where he is now


But how did the IVPITERIAN drag the french left down with him? Won't it make more sense that Hollande messed something up?


They've been dreaming of Corbyning him for years and they're gonna try their hardest this time.

Hollande's presidency, plus Mélenchon and Macron's parties eating into their margins. Same thing happened with Les Républicains and Macron/Le Pen. They were big tent parties so they don't know how to position themselves ideologically now that their voters can shop elsewhere and a guy who shares 95% of their ideas is in power.


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They should use this poster tbh



The guillotine took the nobility of a beheading and turned it into some goofy industrial bullshit. It's the early modern equivalent of how the US uses all sorts of goofy poisons and shit instead of just using a firing squad.


>> goofy industrial bullshit.
I like it industrial. :(


>Napoleon was as much a product of the French revolution as Robespierre
I'd argue Napoleon was a product of the 9th of Thermidor and the ultra-leftist refusal to temper the terror, leading to a collapse into the directory. Napoleon represented the kind of man Robespierre spent his life rooting out (although, it is known now Robespierre never even wielded absolute authority).
>Because leftoids and even Iranian Islamists took the French revolution as a model.
When I said model, I did not literally mean they copied every aspect of it. Cause they did not. What the Jacobins gave revolutionary movements was a guide on how to seize state power and hold it. Without Danton's insurrectionary commune there would be no Bolshevik revolution. "Purges" are the organic consequence of ideological struggle within a party and represent the sharpening of political contradictions.
>why Zhou Enlai was famously ambiguous about the French revolution
"it remains to be seen." Isn't ambiguous. It is just acknowledging that the aims of the French Revolution were never achieved and the torch was given to the communists.
> became autocratic guided democracy (aka dictatorships) with mass purges
With one revolution surviving 71 years before having its own thermidor and another still going strong. Thereby validating the Jacobin model as the only successful way thus far to seize and hold state power.
>Leftists have a really poor understanding of what the French revolution actually was
Evidently you do.
> If the Jacobins were around today we'd call them fascists
The Jacobin ideal was far too universal to be called Fascist. Historians today are even writing pieces like: Robespierre an old regime feminist? Or how Robespierre's statute still stands in Haiti because he defended the colonial people's right to revolt. Let alone his demand that Christians live like their savior and distrust of wealth in general. Doesn't sound very fascist. The Jacobins were petty-bourgeois revolutionaries and not communists but they still made one hell of an effort.
>The left will do much better if we just abandon this obsessive French revolution larping
There never was a larp. I find most leftists are ignorant of the French Revolution today, despite it being the only successful seizure of state power occurring in a Western colonial state besides Portugal. Toward the final months of Robespierre privately lamented to Saint-Just that he feared the terror would never end. But in those final months, Robespierre also lashed out at the merchants and large bourgeoisie. He spoke of the proletarian's plight as the class and spoke of the role of society was to support those who were poorest.
>Leftists have a really poor understanding of what the French revolution actually was
It seems you do.


French comrades. Does the Popular Front have any chance of winning or is this yet another nothingburger?


>Anything that demystifies social control is a valid addition to the Marxist reading list.
His conclusion (pro-neolib) are tied up with his method.


Sure, just like every ideology arising out of the early 20th century made heavy industry into a god and the total consolidation of society in and out of the workplace into a social imperative. If your historical materialism were more developed that would be obvious. Instead you're a middle class lackey of the bourgeoisie still dickriding Taylorism-Fordism as the future of humanity.

If your immanent critique simply stands athwart history at the intersection of 1947 yelling "Lalalalala none of this is happening" then 1. it isn't immanent 2. it isn't critique 3. you are a larping boomer.


not a nothingburger, the far right gonna win which is a significant shift in electoral dynamics, although in practical terms this aint gonna change much in how shit is run
popular front hope of win is minuscule, they might even loose seats compared to last alliance


It's better then nothing but it is foolish to count on an institutional solution, go vote for them if you can but direct action is what is needed.

Seeing how openly fascist the cops are in france ,every protest will turn violent fast, so there is really no need to hold back at this point.


Some people in our country start praising the European right-wing when they see the National Rally (or a similar party) being unfriendly towards Ukraine. They seem to be unaware that this party once paid homage at the Yasukuni Shrine.



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fwiw the polling shows that the original NUPES is the floor for the fledgling Popular Front. The latter hasnt even formalized a policy agreement yet but it is looking good. So far they absorbed more parties than the original NUPES. The newly added regionalists could garner them much needed seats.


File: 1718220816803.png (384.85 KB, 553x680, ClipboardImage.png)


Marechal and Zemmour broke up, lul



What are dvg and r!?
literally who and literally whom?


marine's twice married "ultra-catholic" niece whose italian husband looks like an arab and and algerian jew that heads the extreme-right party and rails against the great replacement of white EVROPEANS®


lmaaao really? That's great.


DVG means 'divers gauche' meaning 'diverse' left, DVD 'divers droite' diverse right . This is a label in France chosen and given to (regional) independent candidates, alliances or electoral lists that are not part of a major or official party to put them in a political category.

R! is Reconquête which is a relatively new right-wing party founded by Eric Zemmour, an Algerian Jew and French Ultra-Nationalist former journalist (basically the French Tucker Carlson/Bill O'Oreilly) and Marie Marechal Le Pen the niece of the current leader of the National Ralley.


>an Algerian Jew
Aw man. Us Algerians really should know better.


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This and the Republican leader arguing with his party and their twitter account getting deleted is hilarious.

Say what you will about the French Left but at least they are not up to this level of hi-jinks yet.


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Lmao, french twitter begging Melenchon to not scare the hoes in his TV interview.


He should say fuck it and roll up with a Robespierre wig


She shouldn't be called Marechal. Her biological father is not some Monsieur Marechal, but a notorious French spy who also liked to work for I****l.


The racist minority is too common of a trope nowadays, it's just unfunny now.
>DVG means 'divers gauche'


Apparently RN refuses to take her back too lol


I heard that in Brittany they have communist parties in barns


that's a win for the french right though
zemmour fucking glows


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Nouveau Front populaire is officially formed.

fwiw, it doesn't seem like most voters of either right wing parties are as happy about any potential alliance as the left wing parties and their voters.

And it would makes sense, NPF can just accuse them of an alliance of convenience, asking why is a party who opposed the pension reform allying with a party that doesn't?


So basically the head of the French 'Republican Party' (center-right, gaullist, traditionally europhile but in recently years getting more and more unhinged) has barricaded himself in his office and staged a one-man lock-out despite the fact that his party has just expelled him. So today around noon the party secretary found a second and could enter the building with the disgraced president nowhere to be found.

But it's not over because there seem to be some legal issues surrounding the authority of the president and his presumptive expulsion. It seems like the Republicans will spend the next month in an internal legal battle instead of participating in the election. In the worst case the expulsion is ruled illegal and the president single-handedly ends up signing up the entire party to an electoral alliance with the Far-right, resulting in total implosion. This is all being reported in the French press.

This is the weirdest shit in French politics since the Dreyfuss affair.


why is french politics so schizophrenic


Tell us whether their policies and plans are based or not.


On the whole, it's because the Socialist Party has done shit, the center-right "Republicans" party has done shit and the bourgeois media is advertising for the far right by inviting them on and propagating the far-right discourse on "grand replacement" and "delinquent migrants".


Really? The other controversies that are ongoing as well such as R! spiltting apart and LFI MPs get accused of antisemitism coz they mocked a jewish presenter really adds on to the vibe that the election is a shitshow.

The policies comes out tomorrow.


You are without a doubt the biggest pseud on this entire forum.


Here is a good summary of the last absolutely batshit crazy 24h.

Turn on subtitles and. then autotranslate.


les pauvres youpins
est-ce que quelqu'un les sauvera des big bad cocos


>LFI MPs get accused of antisemitism
accusing leftists of antisemitism has become a staple for reactoids since the founding of the zionist entity


File: 1718356873561.mp4 (5.06 MB, 750x536, poutou.mp4)

I like it when poutou gets on tv


lol yeah I always love his interventions. He has become very good at answering those "do you condemn the violence" shit by striking right back. Easy to be prepared too, its always the same question.


Bombe nucléaire de vérité


most of them are unapplicable under the EU,or not decided by the national assembly.


according to some retard on 4chan tiktok is banning leftist accounts in france.
is that true or just rightoid delusion?


File: 1718474618324.jpg (372.62 KB, 1080x1059, poutou.jpg)

Poutou was accepted as a candidate by the NFP. RN won this one 53,5% vs. 46,5% during the last legislative election (2nd round).



is this a compromise with LFI? im totally ignorant as to this guy


Is this good or bad


This is a good thing. LFI has negotiated for candidates from more radical (and smaller) parties that joined the alliance to run as sole candidates under the Popular Front banner. They have also nominated a whole bunch of people from unions and extra-parliamentary anti-fascist orgs.


While a 7% point gap might seem large in 2022 Nupes wasn't as united as NFP is now and Poutou has national-level recognition while his one-term RN opponent is some unknown schizo climate-denialist small business winery owner fascist pieds-noirs prick.


Is it finally time to go from "Nothing ever happens" to "Maybe some things will happen"?


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>LFI has negotiated for candidates from more radical (and smaller) parties that joined the alliance to run as sole candidates under the Popular Front banner. They have also nominated a whole bunch of people from unions and extra-parliamentary anti-fascist orgs.


Here is a bad thing that has happened though: PS decided to surprise-nominate the former president François Hollande last minute for one circumscription lmaooooo



Not so based when Mélenchon purged soc-dem progressives from LFI and shielded a ginger wife-beater TWO WEEKS FROM ELECTIONS


He is a brilliant orator, politician and used to be Melenchon's designated successor before he went full retard and slapped his wife during a dispute, he basically has been completely rehabilitated by LFI but will likely never take on a significant public role again. Melenchon is shielding his closest loyalists and purging those that were critical of him.


>The revolution's model that made possible: the Haitian, Soviet, Chinese, and Cambodian revolution
>Cambodian revolution
You dont mean..


They're betting on nostalgia
If he purged the socdems then what remains on LFI?


>purged soc-dem progressives
how is this a bad thing?


French courts have suspended the expulsion of the leader of the gaullist, center-right party Republican Party(LR) who is moving forward with his one-man negotiations and selection process for a shared candidate list with the French far-right RN. The legal dispute between the LR party board and the president is continuing.



>how is this a bad thing?
Do you even know who were those "soc-dem progressives" that were "purged"?


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Front Populaire bros we got too cocky.


NFP supports a weapon's embargo against Israel and recognition of Palestine.


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> when you have 0 idea of how executions used to work before the guillotine


Man there are news of Alternative für Deutschland (literal neonazi party) going on an official visit over there last June and allegedly meeting with the Deputy Ministry of Foreign Affairs.
Honestly between that and Kissinger I would be really surprised if they did *not* know.


The relationship between China and Germany during World War II is not as sensitive as it is in Europe.

Given the current friendliness of the AfD towards China, many Chinese nationalists would likely be happy to see the AfD come to power. Whether they see it as the successor of World War II Germany out of admiration for German military power, or as the successor of East Germany out of communist sentiment, the goal is to 'unite all forces that can be united.'




they went to japan?


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Several members of BSW are supporters of the Friends of Socialist China platform.


'Diplomacy, exchange and cooperation, this was the maxime of my trip to China, invited by the national people's congress. I was a great honor to be received as the first foreign guest in the Great Hall of the People after the pandemic.'



Then those people are stupid


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The Figaro (conservative newspaper) has projected that, based on the results of the European elections, the second round vote in 93% of French electoral districts might come down to a duel between the RN-led coalition and the Popular Front which would virtually wipe out almost all openly centrist and liberal forces.


>which would virtually wipe out almost all openly centrist and liberal forces.


Macron might end up being a president without a party, lmao.


Do we have any French anons here voting for RN?




Yeah, I want to make fun of them


Squeezie, France's biggest YouTuber, basically the French equivalent of PewDiePie has posted several pages on IG condeming RN and echoing many points listed in the program of the Popular Front, without a direct endorsement. This was met with a swift reaction on Jordan Bardella's instagram and then even with him commenting on it during an interview, basically calling leftist social media figures a bunch of out of touch millionaires.

This is basically the equivalent of Donald Trump commenting publicly on Hasan Piker's social media posts.

Sage because /isg/ish content, however this is a new evolution in French electoral politics.



>Donald Trump commenting publicly on Hasan Piker's social media posts.

this would not even surprise me a little bit unfortunately


French ziggas I bet.


I see some green party in the Front populaire. Unless the anti capitalists actually made them fucking bow to their policies I doubt this is France crushing the centrists and libs.


That's why I said 'openly liberal and centrist'.

Obviously Greens and SocDems are part of the Popular Front and they managed to water down some positions, especially with regards to foreign policy.


Yeah, Trump has already done a lot to normalize the social mediatization of American politics.


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What kind of reading are you guilty of?


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Congrats, you just rediscovered by yourself almost one hundred years later that "popular front" means class collaboration and, in the long run, helping political structures that will inevitably kill the revolutionaries. There's a reason the third international was against this kind of strategy before becoming a mere vehicle for Moscow's geopolitical ambitions. I mean I will still vote for them (mainly because Bardella shat himself in the Amphi N of Tolbiac), but there is a reason a lot of principled Marxists oppose this kind of shit.


That's why they have been some of the most succesful leftists in history. History is written by Crazy people


What positions did they water down?


military aid to ukraine


>The Popular Front which would virtually wipe out almost all openly centrist and liberal forces.
>Is filled with openly liberal forces


Anything else? geopolitics is kinda insignificant anyway.


Outside of geopolitics, the only thing is that they decided to shut up about nuclear power retirement because some retards on the left still think it's a good idea to build new plants


What's wrong with Blanqui? From what I read of the French Commune it seems he did literally nothing wrong and had all the actual good ideas that were overruled, like marching on Vichy.


>geopolitics is kinda insignificant anyway.
Not in the case of France especially Françafrique. How France responds to its "backyard" will effect the economy and working conditions of France.


>CPSU's foreign relations people knew
the soviets where retarded that why they dont exist no more


Let's be real there, the main thing affected would be shareholders profits, ultimately as long as the oil prices are stable it won't affect the economy much. If the France-African countries get the idea to nationalize French shit without paying it would also throw off every other capitalist and state willing to invest there Chinese included, and it they loose their grip the huge French MIC can still make a buck at the end of the day by selling weapons to people they like in the new regions taken by strife.
Ultimately, and it's sad, but the electorate does not care about that nearly as much about that as the war in ukraine or in the near east, mainly because of selective media coverage, and even that is kinda of insignificant because most people don't decide to vote in regard of these issues.


Okay how is the NPF gonna deal with territorial and ex-colonial situation?


>A revolution in France, which would have created a left government that was probably anti-Soviet
Soviet Union failed when they retreated to nation-bulding after Lenin. The Brest-Litovsk treaty wouldn't have been signed by any of post-Lenin soviet leaders cause they were too preoccupied in protecting "the nation" instead of advancing socialism, even if it lowered the USSR status in the world. See also the Greek debacle post WW2.


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>Could have been if the communist party weren't opportunist cowards and the Kremlin's little bitches, they joined late when the movement was already blossoming into a general strike and they refused to take power when they could.
Mark my words. In 30 years people will say the same thing about the BLM movement despite BLM being a democrat-Open Society funded operation to destabilise Trumps presidency to get disinterested people on side for Genocide Joe.

The 68 movement was a bunch of fucking retards


>posting irrelevant burger brainrot shit in reply to a two week old post
You're valid.


>Leila Khaled is "burger brainrot"


Bait of the highest degree. Biden got his own protests for the Palestine genocide and Magacommunists like you are still mad that it made the "BLM is a democrat psyop" point mute.


Can you provide a citation for a single one of those parties calling itself liberal? Thanks.


In the case of Kanaky they oppose any ongoing reform that would expand the voter lists in favor of settlers.


What's a big deal is that the NFP officially supports the creation of a constitutional convention with the goal to abolish the 5th Republic and that now all self-styled leftist political forces have signed up to that.


>dae le epic palestinians love my american brainrot?!
so true!!!


Imagine calling a non-American a "maga communist"
Maybe the retarded brainrotted burger is in your house


Haz's brainworms are international


There is no reason to distinguish among any conservative socialist movements. They are all protecting the ruling ideas and they will all be charcuterie.


Yeah man may 68, it's just like when BLM ended up a general strike where no American worked for two weeks, the president left the country by fear to seek refuge in a fascist dictatorship and the glowies were expecting and planning for a communist coup that never materialized


>on the left still think it's a good idea to build new plants
why is it not?


Mainly because renewables can get built a hundred times faster and cheaper and the more they get built the more they make nuclear completely non nonsensical as they negate the need for a baseload. Basically if we launched a big project now (not even happening) in 15 to 20 years when the fleet gets built nuclear will have no place on the grid so that's just hundreds of billions of euros and millions of man hours wasted on useless concrete edifices. By the time it comes online the old plants will be long shut down and replaced by renewables anyways unless someone really wants to risk a trillion euro clean up.
But also the EPR program is an utter failure, the engineering talent is lacking, the economical framework for such a project does not exists, the long term storage solutions are problematic, some of the fuel comes from neocolonies, and there is the whole proliferation thing and the military industry making weapons from it.
So it's just a bad idea all around that still gets pushed because of inertia; there is some amount of misplaced national pride but mostly a lot of capitalists are profiting from the nuclear industry and they want to get the maximum of money before they get shut down not unlike oil porkies.


>as they negate the need for a baseload
lmao, here we go again with the antiscientific bullshit

at least say that its actually about ownership and not any of the other scientifically discredited reasons, because its the only legit reason to be critical of nuclear at this point of a literal climate crisis. all of this renewable future predicting has failed all of its marks so far – growth, share of supply, you name it. aside from porky shit there's another reason why renewables aren't eliminating gas/oil/coal power in the west, and its precisely base load. you see countries like germany going from nuclear to coal (lmao) or others going from coal to gas (less dumb, but still pretty dumb), and not as much coal to solar/wind as greens would like.

then there's the people who always conveniently ignore the environmental/ecosystem consequences of maintenance and especially infrastructure production of most sources of renewable power also (read: solar panels are dirty as fuck to make, and the recycling is also piss poor because its expensive, instead they get dumped into africa so kids can get metal poisoning while sifting through electronic trash).

the base load will always be an issue as long as we are under capitalism. porkies owning the renewables will either have to make the majority of their profits from gigantic subsidies to justify to themselves and their investors why they waste a shitton of power for reasons of meeting base load targets on a bad wind/sun day, or they will start pushing for "energy diversification" as they always do because they wont be growing fast enough very soon. this is why the green liberal position is completely untenable, and why the green parties are all full of cranks.

green power proponents have three realistic moves to campaign for (all at the same time ideally):
1. go non proliferation nuclear to prepare for a mass shut down of ALL fossil fuel power at the same time, forget about hydroelectric dams. tell people what they need to hear: we will need at least 1 more generation of nuclear if we want to take carbon reduction targets seriously. anyone who disagrees is wrong.
2. start taking tidal/wave power seriously if you want renewable base load, as its the only non intermittent renewable.
3. focus on publicly owned (nationalise it!), at loss operated (fuck your growth and your profits), wind/solar and pay big bucks into battery and recycling research to make it actually viable in the future.


If you think RN will lose power because of inflation you're either stupid or a fascist


Parisians could throw them out?


Hyperinflation is being pushed as a reaction to a posible leftist win, retard.


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Capitalists don't give a shit about Macron, they will be thrilled to work with RN and to help them consolidate power as much is possible.

>letting fascists gain more power is good leftist strategy my man

We haven't heard that before, oh no, very first indeed.


what is the patronat?


bosses. Patron = boss in french.


The the collection of bosse, corporate, 'management' often used in a derogative context for political agitation.


Is that good? The kanuks don't want that too right?


If this reform goes through it will give settlers an electoral majority and thus further Kanaky's colonial status, likely forever.


depends which kanuks you're talking about,but everybody here thinks they all want to become independent because of their third worldist boners. (pro tip: they will just become an australian colony if they become "independant")


settlers are already a majority in the legal electorate. it's why the referendums kept being voted down
ferme-la, connard


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LFI and the NFP is really doing their best, but it doesn't look they will break RN's strangehold. Even when they are the only one with an electoral program and the CGT supporting them. There would be a three way debate soon so that is the final hope of things changing.


any chance there will be a debate stream with english subtitles somewhere? would be very interested in seeing that


France24(eng) might have a subtiled version


idk man. I don't speak French well anyway.



Thing is it's not a proportional system like in the UK, so results can shift greatly depending on some local circumcriptions. It's still anyone's game.


when is the debate? where can i see it?
also what is the >debout la france soutient le RN referencing?


Yea but the vote % is still so high for RN. It seems like NFP's radical economic policies isn't enough to convince a third of France to not be racist. Especially when the RN kid can't even make a full commitment to reverse the retirement reforms. RN voters are running out of reasons except being racist.


It is in 25th June.

>debout la france soutient le RN referencing?

Some small far right party that RN picked up. They are copying the NFP's strategy of forming a coalition.


>it's not a proportional system like in the UK
>a proportional system
>like in the UK


Franceanons, say that the polls are right and RN wins but NFP puts in a great show. What do you think are the chances they immediately shatter after the elections? Is there any hope that a RN government would fuck things up enough to make LFI more popular?




Unfortunately there were some reports and revelations (in the newspaper express) that the mainstream left parties (this also includes the pcf btw, since it's a former governing party) were already planning to freeze out LFI for a long time leading up to current events and form a center+left alliance and especially dislodge Melenchon and his inner circle during the next election before they got taken aback by the sudden election.

Due to the strong results of the socdems, LFI had to cede way more circumcriptions to them. Right now LFI doesn't have an absolute majority when it comes to candidates anymore like during the last election . There is the latent fear on the side of LFI and ongoing conflict within the coalition that the non-LFI groups might force a vote on a non-LFI candidate together to head NFP and ultimately the prime minister, even if LFI wins a plurality.

Their ultimate goal has always been to decapitate LFI and get rid off Melenchon and his inner circle because they are based and the real ones as far as it comes to French politics. They would also favor an LFI member not from Melenchon's clique. That's also partly what the controversy of LFI getting rid of some MPs was about that was characterized as a small purge in French media.


The actions of the PCF are especially disappointing in my personal. I know there is competition between political orgs but here has been a comtinous pattern of Eurocommunist parties that have a past history of governance who have sabotaged the newly emerged 'populist' leftist political forces that came about as a result of the financial and austerity crisis acting as a sort of henchmen for the mainstream SocDems.


France as a nation itself began with the french revolution, which is the inception of leftism


>They are copying the NFP's strategy of forming a coalition.
doesn't seem to be doing much for them


But the american revolution was first


Thomas jefferson was a jacobin
They were synonymous events in world-history


anyone wanna read this hilarious article from the nytimes about the "plight" of jews having to vote for the RN because it's the only party that unconditionally supports the homeland they've never been in?:


who is the guy debating for the NFP?
how "problematic" were the people that were kicked out?


its so demoralizing to see left parties just purposely destroy those with the most momentum and most principles. kind of similar to UK labour but theyve been a lost cause for a long time and thats one party fighting over leadership, this seems worse. it doesnt even make sense to me from a practical opportunistic standpoint


So I don't know all the specifics and I am not saying that Melenchon should by immune from criticism but 4 out of 5 immediately announced a dissident candidacy and as far as I remember some of them were among the most critical when it came to LFI pro-Palestine line (many prominent LFI members and deputies wouldn't even give in to denouncing Hamas as a terrorist org).

LFI is under constant attacks for that. You have to know that French media has morphed to something that is arguably worse than American media. Like 3 billionaires now own all TV channels. Many new right-wing politicians and demagogues were constantly pushed or even started out as 'journalists' and commentators at those media channels like Zemmour.

Like 2 years ago a 12 year old Jewish girl was raped and any time an LFI candidate was on like two ceyrons were constantly flashing the news about the rape for example, implying that it's LFI that bears responsibility for their Palestine support.


Like 2 days ago"


The current leader of LFI.


Fuck i hate these people so much. i'm not a stalinite, but fuck me if i wouldn't do purges from day one all around


Someone needs to start 🔥 🚪 of media execs 🏠's iykwimf.


Here is a supercut of France's most viewed politics talk shows. Either turn on captions+auto-translate or count how often they are saying 'anti-semitic'. This is what you see when you are turning on any news or talk show right now.


How is trust in media, both youth and general?


File: 1719174327863.jpg (569 KB, 1080x1080, GQxOWTpW0AAys4s.jpg)

Someone said that Melenchon was born deaf, is this true?

Also pic related is the debate. Weird placement of heads lol.


Lol, LFI's message has been 'RN is just Macron, just on steroids', so funny how Attal and Bardella have the same facial expression and suit combo. Almost looks like a gigachad/soyjak meme with Bompart smiling in the middle.


Bonjour mes amis
Comment trouves-te la Nouveau Front populaire? Est-ce que cela va être comme le dernier fois?
J'écoutais à un podcast sur Macron et je fus choqué à apprendre que Macron a fais celle gambit auparavant dans 2018 contre Le Pen
Aussi que il a trompé un gauchist président
Excuse mon foireux français


wonder how many of those are part of the chosen
i was watching french series and movies the other day to learn french and i was surprised at how many actors were part of the tribe


Utterly begging for ropes!


>Front Populaire agrees to elect a Prime Minister after the elections
>"We will decide after the…"
<other Front Populaire leaders makes snide comments on how Melenchon can't be prime minister

I swear to god if French people fall for this bullshit, they deserve whatever is coming to them.


Good thing Hollande publicly said that JLM should step down, everybody hates Hollande with a passion, so it might cancel out.


>Melenchon: I have no rancor for Hollande, what was said has been said with the past, I personally welcome any ally in this fight.

<Hollande: Melenchon should retire and stay away.



adolf hitler post


why would they decide after the elections? that's the dumbest thing ever, they need to decide now. the party with the biggest vote share in the coalition should get PM.


I think LFI and the others made a gamble that their bloc would have the most seats after the election.


People aren't going to want to vote for a coalition where they don't even know who the PM will be though

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