Russia is importing the world proletariat to throw them in the Ukrainian meat grinder though
I mean, China is already utilizing capitalist methods in order to construct socialism. So why not import cheap labour to accelerate the construction process?
china self-reproduces its own proletariat while the west isnt (see birth rates).
Also, its about macroeconomics where more people = more sales = line go up voodoo economics.
This isnt the proletariat though, its the lumpen, since the western service economy is based on consumption rather than production (in global trade). China is the biggest producer. So a robust consumer base is being imported to subsidise the surplus product of industry.
Production and consumption work in ratio to each other like this.
And most immediately, migrants see the benefits of coming to the west, and their traffic has to be dealt with in some kind of way, same as the mexican border with america (although, human and drug trafficking also occurs there).
They have labor, they need capital- (high-tech) factories, machines etc.
>>1898127In addition to the points mentioned by other Anons, a potential diminishing factor for Russia may be its people's Ethnic-Nationalist culture. From what I've read and from speaking to native Russians, brown and black, asian, even non-Russian slavic whites are to be distrusted. If the people of this nation were to import these proletariats, I can't imagine they'd be employed outside fields of wretchedness.
>>1898132China have already a native migrant class to fill the role third world immigrants plays in Western countries.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MingongAnd Russia have lots of immigrants from Central Asia.
>>1898137China also use plsces like Djibouti in africa as colonies for their production
they were not white and they were dark-skinned peoples. unless there are cattle-breeding program for whites, then importing them would threaten the whiteness (which is bad). hence why we need a cattle-breeding program for whites.
>>1898141uygha what the fuck are you talking about?
>>1898141>why ?black and brown people can always have their skin turned lighter and their descendants turn lighter and lighter by generations. but white are different since they are significantly more white then others, is the whitest, born white, stay white, is white from birth until death. and with these characteristics all we need to do is overly produce whites so that we can end all the bad shit associated with cosmetics and fashion industry and also beauty, dating and sexual culture that are happening in the dark-skinned world.
speaking from a brown who live in a thirdy shithole country.
>>1898153hence why we need a global program for cattle-breeding whites so that they can be the over whelming majority on every nation.
>>1898136>Russia may be its people's Ethnic-Nationalist culture. You mean, they are racist and this is Ok, because this is russian culture?
>>1898134>china self-reproduces its own proletariatYeah, after a veeery long time of the one child policy.
>>1898160Yes, so it centrally plans its population, unlike the west's anarchy of re-production
>>1898161You are aware of the effects of the one child policy today? Doesn't seem very rational or planned at all…
>UBI + Open bordersCan we just admit we are neoliberals masquerading as commies?
Thats quite a perfect combination to push an increase off taxes that will lead to a generalized loss of productive power and increase of inmediate consumption.
It is quite literally the best enviroment for the capitalist, the population does not save because they have no hopes of ever achieving autonomy, thus will never attain control of the means of production.
However they will still use the few money they retain to buy essentials (food, clothes, etc) from proky, Rent (because property becomes unachievable), and buy luxury goods (because children become unsustainable and so does saving, may as well just buy tech that helps the capitalist mantain a technological uphand)
The migration grants a great potential recipient population for the minimum income for survival, and keeps the property pricing high because as the population increases the market values skyrocket both in housing and infrastructural investments
Thus the capitalist can keep amplifying his money by simply circulating it and keep spicking money from the working class preventing them from ever saving
This already happened in argentina and only led them to vote for an anarchopitalist after 20 years of fruatration
Repost
>>1895847("We")
> but not countries like Russia
They do THOUGH
>>1898168>the population does not save because they have no hopes of ever achieving autonomy, thus will never attain control of the means of production.retarded frogposter. japan has some of the highest savings in the world: do the japanese own the means of production? no, they overwork themselves to death.
>>1898160>>1898164Number of children go up, number of money goes down
>>1898127This filename is so weird, its like a langley thread
>mass importing immigrants
>importing
Not what is happening.
siberia has better discussion under random hentai than what is going on here
china and russia have migrant workers
thread has a dumb and wrong premise, sage
Western countries import people for purposes of ethnoslavery. You bump up the proletariat to middle class status and fill the working class jobs with disposable people from 3rd welt countries. Western countries are spiritually slave societies. They need black slaves and serfs so when they don't have them anymore they need disposable people of "inferior races" to fulfill the role. Western societies will have no revolution because the working class is now immigrants. That's why they have a jihadism problem in the same way they had an anarchist problem during the age of the working class or a messianic preacher problem in the age of peasants and serfs.
>>1898395You are a rube if you think the bourgeoisie organises on racial lines lol
>>1898136>Russia may be its people's Ethnic-Nationalist culture.We are the original mutts, westoids were scared shitless until the second half of the previous century.
No one is mass importing migrants you racist skitzo fuck.
>>1898455
low birth rates only matter when applied over a long period of time
organic/constant capital. the ratio of organic to constant capital is much higher in the west due to far greater mechanization, which is why so much of the domestic population is off-loaded into the service economy. it is higher because of the tendency of capitalists to adopt methods that maximize profits and efficiency, employing and negotiating with less laborers. this allows them to reinvest into finances and real estate. the more specialized workers that operate the greater proportion of constant capital are fewer and therefore can be paid more. the fundamental contradiction here is
1. constant capital does not produce surplus value that can be extracted because you cant work a machine longer than necessary to extract the value within it, but workers are made to and/or willing to work longer hours than necessary for the reproduction of their own bodies. this means that surplus value generation is off-loaded onto the third world, global south, w/e, hence imperialism and neo-colonialism
2. the entire circuit of production doesnt function if value is not realized in exchange, therefore all the cheap goods being produced both through 1st world mechanization and 3rd world exploitation need to be bought somewhere. this problem is to a large extent alleviated by the fact that under these circumstances 1st world workers are paid much more due to aforementioned reasons, and can recieve higher wages to purchase cheaply produced goods at much higher prices than those goods were produced. but the resultant increase in standard of living leaves gaps in the labor market, as people accustomed to a certain standard of living will push hard against its reduction and wont be willing to take on many of the "unskilled jobs" (low variable/constant ratio production methods) for the (low) market value of labor value accorded to them.
on one hand, the poor of the 3rd world are much more willing to work for these wages because it is still a large increase in standard of living for them, and the immiserating circumstances of imperialism that enable the overall dynamic also provide a strong push factor for 3rd world workers to leave their own countries. on the other hand, the higher wages and relative security of the 1st world also attracts 3rd world academics, specialists, petit-bourgeois, etc., for whom the wages themselves may not necessarily be strictly better in relation to cost of living, but they 1. are still more competitive (i.e. educated, specialized) than the majority of workers living in the country theyre moving to, and often have a (real or percieved) higher ceiling of class mobility in the 1st world 2. like the poor 3rd worlder, they are often trying to escape the chaos and immiseration of imperialism that makes this whole dynamic possible.
that is the marxist explanation.
>>1898137>China have already a native migrant class to fill the role third world immigrants plays in Western countries.China's economic growth is sometimes treated like it happened because of magic when they had hundreds of millions of people move to the cities and work in manufacturing producing for the world market or doing construction jobs (while being effectively exploited through the household registration system). A Maoist-era success here though is that a lot of these workers already had experience in basic industries and literacy.
>>1898158No..? More of its just a fact of life, and probably one of the reasons they don't import black ppl. I'm pretty anti-racism myself.
>>1898402Tell that to the Russkis, they're pretty damn proud of their mutt identity. Don't shoot the messenger.
>>1898137>China have already a native migrant class Bullshit, their birthrates are super low and are starting to get labour from central asian and southeas6 asian countries
>>1898127>importingNo one is importing anything. Mass migrations have happened throughout history. Like why there are Jews and Gypsies throughout Europe.
>By 2020, there is an estimated number of 500,000 Africans residing in China, with around 100,000 in Guangzhou.
>>1898623500k? in a country of 1.4b?
so 0.04% of the population?
>>1898153>black and brown people can always have their skin turned lighter and their descendants turn lighter and lighter by generations. lol thats not how it works dude… skin tone is genetically inherited
>>1898127Because immigration kills class struggle by diverting it into national and cultural problems. As well as driving down the cost of labor power, which in turn further destroys the domestic working classes living standards and ability to afford to have a family, causing the ruling class of each country to bring in more migrants to fill the places of the people who would have existed.
>Shouldn't a socialist state like China actually import the world proletariat into their country?Why the fuck would they do that? People in underdeveloped countries need development of their nations and lives, rather than fleeing to somewhere else. We are not cosmopolitans.
>>1898935
hilarious
>western countries are mass importing immigrants
yall are falling for obvious /pol/ bait
>>1898127except mother russia imports shit tons of central asian migrants
>>1899091
>Migrants are self interested and self-serving.
Whoa no way, you mean like literally every other person?
>They root for their own personal profit and want to gather it by doing proletarized jobs in the first world where they reap gibs
if they're doing jobs how can they be reaping gibs? any money they earn through work is surely fairly earned, right?
>So they try plugging weed on germany
are they working or not?
>Western media tends to ignore and endorse
they don't. they do the opposite actually.
>they actually want to benefit from an ever growing population of luxury good consumers
>luxury good
gr8 b8 8/8 ngl etc
>>1898127To maintain high GDP per capita. A country of ONLY working age adults will have a higher GDP per capita than a country that has both the kids at replacement levels and elderly
>>1899168>the best example are gingers, in the british islands where they are the most they still get picked on and gingers still feel allienated from the majority because they know they are perceived differently.is this as made up and ridiculous as it sounds or are gingers actually treated poorly in the UK lol
>>1898495this should be "LOW ratio of variable to constant capital", my mistake
>>1898127China literally uses outside labor, not necessarily from other countries because China is literally made up of one billion people. Russia just has a strong oil industry that’s about it.
>>1898465
Every single "migrant criminal gets spared jailtime" article is fake.
Easy to do when you can't speak European languages besides English and report fake news to an Anglophone audience.
>>1899187>is this as made up and ridiculous as it sounds or are gingers actually treated poorly in the UK lolBeat you like a red-headed step child is right up there like beat you like a rented mule, so probably pretty bad.
>>1898616They have the highest rate of automation.
>>1898127Give me the migration and immigration datasets for all relevant countries, together with age demographics, population growth percentages and GDP and GDP growth of these countries over the last 40 years and then we can start talking about who's migrating where and why.
If you cannot supply this data, you have fallen for reactionary culture war brainrot and you should stop posting and kys
>>1899200
That was a protest of about 300 people. German media on the other hand seethed about it for weeks.
Porky is right wing, the media is right wing, and the AFD is the second strongest party now because of full spectrum propaganda since about 2014, sorry.
You’re not the resistance, you’re porkies footsoldier.
>>1899363Porky pawn cope
When you enter any shape of western media you be it netflix, videogames, tv, the music promoted by algorithims in spotify and youtube, or even watch a sports team you will see an insane overrepresentation of porky future proletarized lumpen and gibs recipients
German media seethed more about the retards singing auslander raus (in favt the govt issued bans for the song in oktoberfest and banned videos featuring it online) while conveniently skipped the kalifat boys like a boss and of course doxxing no one.
They spend their entire budget glazing neoliberal progressive open borders parties while countersignaling AfD (who are as well neoliberals, btw, priorities first, the unlimited surplus of foreign workers and consumers they glaze with diversity slogans must never cease to arrive) as dangerous nazis for their position on inmigration, deplatforming them. The same AfD whose leader is a lesbian married to an indian woman.
When the manheim stabbing happened they hired a fucking imam to pray on the cop memorial and tried to hide the stabber being an afghan.
AfD is big only among zoomers and eastoids, not because of propaganda but because zoomers deal with syrian kids larping as thugs on school and because of tiktok (because its effectively lord Xi trying to destibilize the german politic landscape, AfD has ties to the chinese according to german media) propaganda (if we enter google instead we see liberal-progressive open borders propaganda)
Anyway, lets not pretend every party in germany is not the same neoliberal trash
It is by definition the american alligned EU neoliberals that promote open borders, diversity, and inmigration.
You need to be on fumes to believe in a country where the institutions are bond to supress migrants they would jail or make lose their job to any local on hate speech charges or even remotely come close to allow islamic manifestations like picrel (which only make it through some social media btw)
I will give you the reason when its the radlib progressives larping as commies in breadtube, not incels like nick fuentes that get banned from the entire conglomerate of western media or jailed on hate speech charges
>>1898602> Tell that to the Russkis, they're pretty damn proud of their mutt identity. Don't shoot the messenger.WHAT
Where are you getting these ideas and, more importantly, why do you think it is ok to spread absolute bullshit online?
There are literally two words in Russian: Russkiy (ethnic Russian) and Rossiyanin (citizen of Russian Federation). Most Russkiys are low-key "White" supremacists and do not trust or respect neither Muslim nor Turkic nor Finno-Ugric ethnicities of the "Federation".
They are proud of being a "multinational" country but that doesn't go further than that.
>>1899386Btw the Sylt porkies that got doxed are all upper class. Sylt isn’t the island of the poor, average income there is in the six digits. Theres atleast 20 cases of Nazis singing “Ausländer Raus” the last couple of months, the Sylt one just being one of them.
Höcke clearly states in his book “Nie zweimal in denselben Fluß” that he plans to deport all non-Germans. This is a trend of all the rightwingers that were pushed into other European governments. Remigration and all that.
And again, all German media is right wing, every single TV station has been constantly crying about the bad bad Ausländer the last couple of months.
>>1899399
Im obviously not. And i obviously do not vote for le antinmigration neoliberal bourgeois parasites.
But i am also realistic, western liberalism has fully merged morphed progressive liberalism, capitalism is ever shapeshifting its dialectical schikt but keeping the same essence.
replacing "civilizing the savage aboriginals by settling their land for the british bourgeoise" for "enriching the evil colonizers by settling their land for the american bourgeoise" is not communist as much as you might believe.
And recognizing that open borders and a global society are quite literally a liberal troupe endorsed by the media is not something that difficult to observe for literally anyone.
otherwise you wouldnt have a minority british london, the fact you can even contemplate the idea of "africans and arabs replacing you" in american hegemony times goes to show that.
And i dont either think "iz da conspirancy to kill da whitepypo".
The capital doesnt gives a flying fuck about race for anything other than blast class consciousness using it
>>1898495Where'd you learn this from, I would like to know more
>>1898495Where'd you learn this from, I would like to know more
The immigration question is actual mass hysteria
>>1899438Same with the sexual minorities
>>1899419>afd is voted by porkysLmao no.
Afd is voted by working class and eastern german stalinoids.
German media cant get a minute without blasting "muh afd nazis are a threat for democracy".
The capitalist meta on "democracy" is quite literally just calling neoliberal parties extremists so disconformed chinlet lumpen that is in constant friction with the migrants that act hostile towards them vote them
While the other useful lumpen votes neoliberals (gibs edition) to try and counter it.
>>1899419Here too.
Share of voters among workers and among people in poor economic situation
>>1899435>>1899436capital volume 1. as far as it applies to contemporary immigration i dont remember if i explicitly read it somewhere or its just an logical extension of whats described in capital
>NOOOOO WESTERN COUNTRIES ARE MASS IMPORTIN LE HECKIN MIGRANTORINOS
back to /pol/ /zion/
>Russia is not
how to easily spot uninformed western retard
If you call the migrant situation in Europe "mass importing" then I am wondering what you would characterize Russian bourgs bringing in migrants from central Asia for cheap labor.
>>1899519>mass importing migrantssettlers are being planted by american colonial dictatorships*
>>1899536Ah yes, Tajiks and Uzbeks are killing Russians and taking over their houses just like the west bank
>>1899445>>1899452going for vote share is cope to cover up their funding source, which is disproportionately "donations of 10k-50k euros by businessmen"
>>1898127They kinda are, but they have yet to exhaust their pesant population, something that the imperial core ran out of decades ago
>>1899567say mexicans are gypsies
>>1899544I didn't even imply anything like that, you coping retard
>>1899591The word "settler" means settler colonialism (like the early US or Israel), when you say settler on here it means those who are "settling" are stealing land and killing people
>>1899710Triggered. Should the left had done something about jews in Weimar Germany? Silence the histerics and mobilise the apathetic workers (which are the majority) against capitalism.
>>1899445>eastern german stalinoidsThat doesn't exist. Socialism never took root in Germany and post-wall propaganda only accentuated the nationalism.
>>1898127America needs a mass base of low-wage workers to do agricultural and construction jobs which capitalism cannot provide a livable 1stie wage for. China has a legacy of Mao emphasizing the need for societal development and a big part of that is national industry, construction, and agriculture - those are all pretty well-respected and paid positions in Chinese society, whereas in the West those have traditionally been roles given to immigrants. China does try to import other kinds of workers (like say, healthcare workers) because they have a deficit there due to a still-developing institutional base for those fields, but overall the Chinese just have a greater capacity for national self-development than America does - capitalism is just too frail to provide livable wages for societally necessary labor.
>>1898160Reproduction of labor does not need to have positive birth rates because automation means the net amount of labor that effectively needs to be done is going down - it's just that capitalism cannot engage in automation in this way. Capitalism needs wage-earners to buy products or else the entire market relation crumbles. They need a lower class to preserve a reserve army of labor or else wages skyrocket and profitability fails. China does not need either of these things and thus can freely automate away jobs as needed.
>>1899445>>1899452Eastern Germany has been hit hardest by anti-communist propaganda retard.
Guess where the Nazis got their voters from back in 1933. Guess what makes up the majority of the population in every single country, protip it's not the top 1%.
AFD is also neoliberal, just read up on their privatization policy LMAO
>>1899429>The capital doesnt gives a flying fuck about raceStraight up wrong. If you think gigaporky is just as accepting of non-whites then you're gullible or a /pol/tard.
>>1898136Russia imports migrants from Central Asia and some ultra nationalist Russians run their mouth but it doesn't affect the policy of the Russian Federation. One minute the west says Russia is a "white supremacist state that hates minorities and want to kill them" to "Russians are actually uncivilized Finno-mongol mutts who masquerade as white". They don't know what narrative to go with
>>1899794Last time i checked gigaporky tends to be actual sociopaths that do not care even about their inmediate family less about the race of the people they exploited allthesame for centuries, so he can apoint indians and ceos and hire them for white collar jobs, or place them in the same cities as "whites".
Porky doesn't gives a fuck about race.
Maybe if porky had made a ethnostate in the middle east but idk about that
>>1899793Eastern germany is where the left and specially the "Socialists but сhuds" are the strongest.
All ex-soviets are сhuds, western europe and america who instead got hit by all anti-soviet liberal propaganda ecer since the 50s are the most liberal progressive factions.
And i literally called AfD neoliberals, you need to be dense in order to not notice all these neoliberals fearmongered as extremists are nothingburger. How many ethnic cleansingd, queer genocides and cocnentration camps for minorities and communiats meloni and that other retard from the netherlands came up woth (hint, none, in fact migration spiked with meloni)
Its all fluff because neoliberals can't get their economic gameplay without mass migration
>>1900064>like mf london, the sole and one economic core of england is minority britishLondon isn't minority British tho.
>>1900072British isn't an ethnicity.
>>1900032Racists and sociopaths venn diagram is a perfect circle.
>>1900072If you think capitalism is caused by lonely actors then you're not left-wing, sorry.
You're gonna pull up the jews in hollywood stats next?
>>1900076I think you must be if you think British is an ethnicity.
>>1900076he's right though
>>1900078so if i say "indians shit on the streets and smell like curry" or "chinese eat dogs" is not a racist comment?
don't be dense
>>1900081anon, have you suffered a severe head injury? that has nothing to do with anything. go see a doctor.
>>1900081or that crackas fuck dogs
>>1900081why arer you so slimy? stop deflecting.
>>1900064>how can you even deny the fact the entire corporate order and western governments are into mass inmigration and multiracial societies>and multiracial societiesI don't think this is really true but I do think they promote a very misleading concept of diversity
>>1900081>so if i say "indians shit on the streets and smell like curry" or "chinese eat dogs" is not a racist comment?What if you said Americans are fat?
>>1900092you would be right
>>1900097But is it racist?
>>1900099america is a multiracial colony since inception
>>1900103British history is marked for over 500 years of racial puritanism, multiracial and british is mutually exclusive conceptually
>>1900107the english race
>>1900109What about the scotch and welsh and irish race?
>>1900110they were underdogs of the english race
the british (black and pakistani people) colonized india
Thread quickly devolved into race identitarianism discussion, I guess /pol/ is in the name for a reason
>>1900118the british (pakistani) colonized pakistan (pakistani)
therefore the british empire was a vivid expression of paki supremacism
>>1900118Britain didn't colonize India, Britain created India. It's like saying Spain colonized Mexico.
>>1900124paki propaganda, Bharat always existed
>>1900124Anyways you have a fundamental problem understanding the difference between ethnicity and nationality soo…
>>1900125ModiGOD trvthnuke
>>1900126so settler colonialism is not real
>>1900128>so settler colonialism is not realWhy do you think that would logically follow from my statement?
>>1900126no i don't, you are dense and picked up in a word that everyone knows what it means to derail, if i made a racist comment about "indians", "arabs" or "chinese" you wouldn't make these mental gymnastics
>>1900131>no i don't, you are dense and picked up in a word that everyone knows what it means to derail, if i made a racist comment about "indians", "arabs" or "chinese" you wouldn't make these mental gymnasticsBritish isn't a race. You should use the word you mean. Which word did you mean?
palestine was always a multiracial society, palestine-born jews (most of them) are just locals. the gen-i mean war on hamas is a civil war between palestinians of israeli political leanings and palestinians of hamas political leanings
>>1900140who traded slaves from africa into the 12 colonies?
>>1900145>who traded slaves from africa into the 12 colonies?A number of nations.
>>1900150It's not synonymous with White British. No one anywhere considers British a race. Nobody says they have British ancestry. They say they have Scottish or English ancestry perhaps.
>>1900154everyone thinks British is synonimous with white british
>>1900155Everyone always uses British only in reference to nationality because nobody considers British a race.
>>1900159>Everyone always uses British only in reference to nationality because nobody considers British a race.* or ethnicity for that matter.
>>1900159ask any ex-colonial subject of britain who were they colonized by.
then, once they tell you "the British"
then ask them if they mean people like Idris elba or Rishi Sunak
>>1900160the white british, why are they white?
more specifically, why are the irish, the scottish, the cornish and the welsh white?
>>1900161>then ask them if they mean people like Idris elba or Rishi SunakWhat about Benjamin Disraeli?
>>1900165mfs forgot white as a construct steems from geographic procedence
>>1898168>Can we just admit we are neoliberals masquerading as commies?>we How is ensuring that immigrant workers have a place to stay and have a future without fear of repression, genocide or their lives being ruined "neo-liberal"?
>>1900149i agree anon he is clearly scottish
>>1900108>nu leftypoldont pretend youre being an epic oldfag about this, a lot of this thread is exactly the kind of bickering that was happening in 2014.
>>1898141This is the future whites want.
>>1900102God I want to be him
>>1898141vgh the whvte farms of oklahoma
>>1900205workers arent imported, they walk and ride and swim. labor power is imported in the body and mind of the worker, who has the moral-historical concerns of a human being. the labor power of this worker is inseperable from these things, which is unfortunate for liberals and reactionaries, and therefore ultimately unfortunate for capitals reproduction.
>>1900220most of them actually go by plane and job visas or asylum laws, last time i checked western governments flash A LOT of ads to promote migration in third world countries. hence the canada-india and the england-south asia situation
they are quite imported, if you didn't wanted the workers to move you would militarize the frontier like egypt and isreal did to keep palies in their ethnic cleansing facility
>>1900223people walk onto planes, save your moralism
>>1900224the moralism here is believing that presenting a exponential increrase on the working age population inmediately is somehow not a capitalist measure because i appears to be charitative
>>1899580>They also in general get to do divide and conquer idpol distraction with the natives and the immigrants by pitting them against each otherAlso there's some dialectical yin yanging going on here. In the USA the "natives" are actually descendants of settlers, and the "immigrants" are often mestizo and therefore partially indigenous.
>>1900150People are British when they say "bottle of water" funny
>>1900227find where i called it charitable
Migration deprives counties of their workers when they should be building socialism in their own country.
Talking about "importing" human beings, as if they were commodities, is purposefully dehumanizing fascist lingo. The Nazis literally spoke of "jew import".
The question, more properly worded, is why countries allow immigrants from the global periphery to enter their lands and one part of the answer to that question is that for the absolutely most part, they don't.
China is in fact importing vietnamese workers + it has its own untapped impoverished population
Same for russia, it entire hinterland + its allied states is fulled of underdeveloped countries to pull workers from and its still poor itself.
>>1900399>Talking about "importing" human beings, as if they were commodities,Gastarbeiter are litterally imported as commodities for their labour, treated as near slaves. Western europe is full of poles and romanians being used as slaves, raped, beaten, exploited, dumped on the street as soon as they arent needed anymore.
The language used is less dehumanizing than the reality of capitalism.
>>1900300They're entitled to live wherever the fuck they want, there's no such thing as borders or a country under socialism and if you think otherwise you're a fascist piece of shit, and you probably are as an euroach
>>1899438Only fascist scum get salty over immigration, and yes, most euroach peasants are fascist
>>1900419Fuck off back to pol
>>1900453>Dude… those north africans, congolese and syrians are like… wet puppies.Half of them are unemployed btw
>>1900449>they are entitled to live wherever they wantNo?
>no borders under socialismSocialist states tend to militarize their borders in fact. The revolutionary pulses are expansive, not compressive.
Migration is a neoliberal troupe
>>1900420They literally aren't imported, they move on their own accord and sometimes at great cost and risk in a bid to improve their material conditions. The rest you're saying is of course partly true but certainly not the whole picture.
>>1900101>america is a multiracial colony since inceptionyes but that doesnt mean the races were equal. Property owning white men were on top, then all white men, then white women, then everyone else including natives and blacks
>>1900072indians parking their money in london real estate are probably doing it for the same reason any rich thirdie does it, basically tax evasion.
>>1900647They "move on their own accord" based on lies, are held in camps in s country they don't speak the language of, paid fuck all and in practice nothing because they have to pay back all of it in rent and shit, and end up homeless constantly because they can't even afford a 100 euro ticket back home.
>>1900883The countries: America and Canada
>>1900902>The countries: America and CanadaGerman and English, or Italian and English mostly.
mexicans are retards
>>1900937They're smarter than any American by virtue of voting for AMLO then Claudia
>>1900938I was going to crack a joke about them being stupid enough immigrate to shithole north of them to improve their life, but in reality they actually don't because they know it's a shithole.
I guess they're not stupid after all.
>>1900945>>1900939mexicans were only smart enough to leave their feudal drug lords and chiappas alone. so basically being lazy and doing nothing. turns out some stereotype of the lazy mexican is real
>>1900469I wonder why they are unemployed… It must be their own choice.
Retard.
>>1900647>they move on their own accord and sometimes at great costKeep lying, everybody knows about the slave workers that get duped into moving to Western Europe or NA and then get sold into slavery or sexual slavery under threat of violence.
Then theres the wageslaves that work seasonally. Schengen Raum, NAFTA, they all work without paying taxes because porky tells retards like you to defend le borders so they literally cannot into the tax registry, as they are the hecking foreigner migrants!!!
This place is mostly Americans (of course) who clearly know nothing about conditions across the world other than a weird retarded crypto-Orientalism that revolves around whining about how especially evil and depraved Westerners are.
>>1900647>>1901027Actually it's way more perverted. They travel on their own volition in hope they'll escape misery, pay lots of money (borrowed from their extended family) to smugglers to have a relatively safe travel, actually get stuffed like animals in trucks or left on their own on unsafe boats in the middle of the sea
then thoses who survive get enslaved by the local human predators under constant threat of racists cops.
>>1901018They aren't really unemployed. They just do work like uber eats and selling drugs which they can get away with not registering to the government. That way they get to keep their state benefits and have an income on top that.
>>1901018They get gibs and work in shitty jobs for american apps (Uber, etc) or plug drugs, they are a net burden for the public finances, they drain money from the state and taxes paid by the working class and circulate it into the private sector for multinational companies on low taxation as they spend their welfare.
Migration is essentialy a de-estatization weapon that is only -seemingly- making the state bigger, wheb in fact is only widening the american private investor influence
Migrants are particullary not trustworthy of national industries and consume clothing and brands commonly associated with american conglomerates (adidas, gucci, mc donalds, whatever)
>>1901238Holy shit they are smoking weed in their free time instead of working in sulphur mines 24/7, the vvest has fvllen
>>1901378
Of course is not on them, the blame is always on the ruling class making the decisions.
Anyway i doubt is even possible to get rid of american interventionism as it is.
It would require to cull off private media outlets (financed by america). Possibly manage american social media from inside or block it like russia did and put insane taxes/expropiations on foreign companies so they fuck off.
However this would be impossible (bot commies nor сhuds would ever be able to) because as long as they own the media they will mobilize the other sector of the population to go full retard "omgggg the nazis/communists are trying to turn the country in a dictatorship by cockblocking these foreign megacorporations" with some delirious propaganda campaign
>>1901374>>1901374>>1901374You're a fucking nazi piece of shit and I unironically hope blacks and arabs become the nominal majority in the peninsula called euroachistan
>>1901399
Yes and no, both the migrants and the workers (whom in europe case are increasingly worsening their livelihood same as in america) are in a state of general dissatisfaction, yet, their disatisfaction tends to be opposed, migrants identify their opressors in a wide sense with the european nations and moreso with 18-20th century colonialism rather than modern economic activities coming from america, and as result take it out against the european proles and adopt this whole "ghetto" lifestyle, conversely europeans identify their issue with the migrants, whom they see as settlers that are also hostile and live on gibs, there is also a generalized anti-establishment feeling in both but they see the establishment in different places
In germany for example the AFD and the leftist party of more "conservative" affiliation are the most popular parties among the working class locals, similar with france where the lower class french tend to vote RN and other сhud parties
And bith of them are constantly fearmongered about fascism/communism to prevent the seemingly libera" american agents to be removed, as even suggesting it would stain their party and political credibility
>>1901424
What is the marxist explanation for racialized sexual fantasies already?
adopting vulgar anti-immigrant sentiment is a result of being too invested in the nation-state form. the idea that the only choices are repeating liberal rhetoric about open borders and free societies or reactionary populism comes from the double desperation the left of being over-invested in populist quasi-electoralism (e.g. "fuck all the existing parties but we need to find the right way to be popular in the same way they are") and/or mixing up the commitments of basic anti-imperialism with fidelity to the nation-state as the historical form subject to imperialism (e.g. "we wouldnt expect china to bring in so many immigrants so why should we!")
both are deviations from marxism. you dont need to "choose" between being "pro" and "anti" immigrant, you need to recognize that the proletariat has no country and you only intervene by actively organizing to give the proletariat leverage in the way you can. i'd be more sympathetic to these nominally socialist critiques of immigration if they were ever accompanied by strong and tangible demands to stop the imperialism and neocolonialism that is the major push factor for migration, and if they included strong demands and active efforts to organize and defend migrant proletariat currently in the country. as it is its almost without exception tailing the momentum of reactionary anti-immigrant populism, which is pathetic and weak, its a politics based on resentment and competition. communists are globally weak and its a sign of insecurity to attach yourself to this reactionary populism. and totally inconsistent. on one hand youre talking about how the poor domestic workers understandably oppose immigration because it hurts their jobs prospects and liberal propaganda shoved down their throats patronizes them, and on the other hand youre talking about how these migrant workers are opportunists who want to get by on benefits and the black market. it just gets reduced to the good but naive domestic workers vs the tricky opportunist foreign lumpens.
>>1901461I think both issues are visual, there is clearly a proletarization of the european proles that were upheld by a slight period above the average income ito prevent cold war guerrillas inside it, this proletarization and discomfort comes together with a lot of inmigration (mostly as byproduct of neocolonial and imperialist activities, spearheaded by the current master of europe, America.) with migrants and a dialectic that instead of pointing out said imperialist activities in real time shitting their countries, tries to reframe their presence there as a punishment for, not the neocolonial bitching, but 18th century colonialism endorsed by monarchs and dictators, and not against the bourgeois, but against the nation as a whole, down to the ethnic and racial aspects of it
The popular idpol dialectic is deeply allienating for the european proles, moving them towards the right, and creates hostility and grievance among the migratory ones. That no longer show interest in class struggle but rather on reactionary notions of cultural/ethnic/racial revanchism, hardly if ever pointing and singling out the notion of a bourgeois class if not plainly aspiring to ascend into one as a payback for ethnic grievances.
There is indubitably a sector of the migrant population that does live by a generalized macho thug wannabe culture, rooting and grouping with their own actively, which does not mean that all of them do and that there is not a large proletarized sector of their population which ultimately is in that position because of neo-colonialism and imperialism
But as you mention, these issues steem from a major issue: nativism, ethnic nationalism and so forth.
Which are reactionary notions inherently opposed to marxism as they are transversal to class and do not hold meaning when it comes to the analysis of what relation this people holds with the means of production.
But rather archaic notions of land and identity inheritance through filial relations much more alligned with capitalist thought
The wheel is, nontheless, spoiled as it is, and there should be already someone pointing out this dialectial shift transfering blame from the bourgs towards entire races is insanity
Like, who is the "white bodied people" this retard lecturing kids is? The irish that were starved to death and treated as lower than animals by the english bourgeois for centuries, the very english whose great body were working class peasantry and factory workers doing 15 hours shifts in coal mines and factories sending their 7 years old kids to work as well to meet monthly ends?
Or "Sir Oliver Cromwell" maybe?
Shattering class consciousness by creating genuine ethnic tensions is a old and effective trick that even marx noted, precisely as it is in the case of england for example, how the english and irish proles were put against each other by presenting ones as opressors, the others as victims, and both as unworthy animals
They took pride in antagonizing each other identifying themselves with the classblind tnotion of nation, nativity and ethnicity.
These grievances wore off but the irish and the english are near identical, once the cultural background is forgotten there is no evidence of it whatsoever, how long would it take for similar grievances to wear off if people looks visually distinct and are aware of it?
>>1898168i don't support UBI, I support PPW
>>1900064Another
>How can we leftoids acknowledge the war of the cosmopolitan international financier possibly semitic elite to flood the nation and assault the volk with a heterogenous horde of foreign races!?God do I get sick of this white “leftist” shithole
>>1900119Remember leftypol is about 70% pasty surburban honkies that used to post on 8chan’s /pol/ if they’re an oldfag and regular /pol/ if they’re a newfag
>>1902463>>>How can we leftoids acknowledge the war of the cosmopolitan international financier possibly semitic elite to flood the nation and assault the volk with a heterogenous horde of foreign races!?By noticing that most of them are titled aristocrats or of that blood, there are a few jewish aristocratic families on europe, but nothing interesting unless you want to write a few aristocrat jokes
Why are you all so fucking stupid?
You fucking morons, you utter imbeciles.
Financial capitalism is imperialism.
Imperialism is financial capitalism.
Fuck america, fuck the aristocrats, and fuck every single one of you for being a bunch of stupid anarchists.
Death to America
>>1902466The problem starts with the retarded proposition that immigrants are being “imported” when in fact that imperial core has some of the strictest border policies in the entire world and has engaged in a campaign of violent aggression particularly against global South migrants for my entire life
The leftists helping the modern neo-Fascist movement spread this absurd and reactionary propaganda and essentially siding with the sort of state violence that makes migrants easily exploitable in the first place honestly ought to have their knees blown out by shotgun blast
>>1902470>The problem starts with the retarded proposition that immigrants are being “imported” when in fact that imperial core has some of the strictest border policies in the entire worldIt's almost like winning the lottery for the person getting in.
Play shitty games get shitty prizes, what fucking idiot would want to live in shitholes like America or Europe?
You think I'm joking, the USA have a literal immigration lottery.
Sick game. We kill all the sociologists after we kill all the lawyers who aren't members of the party.
>>1898168> the population does not save because they have no hopes of ever achieving autonomy, thus will never attain control of the means of production.when you ask a protestant to improv as a socialist
>>1902469Imperialism does not have to be financial capitalism thoughever
Industrial capitalism is equally as capable of creating horrors and wars. I worry in that amidst all this focus on financialization that people have forgotten the biggest wars of the previous century were set in motion by industrialist concerns.
>>1902470The imperial core has the most exploitative policies, but not the "strictest." Communist China has stricter border policies, such as how people are not allowed in period without visas.
A visaless, unaccompanied minor at Communist China's border will be turned to a relevant international or national organization; however, they will be inducted by capital in america. Various case studies have shown that the american immigration system has put visaless, unaccompanied minors into heavy industry on the very same day they're in custody.
https://www.axios.com/2024/05/31/migrant-children-map-immigrationNeoliberal border policies are exactly what enables the exploitation, makes it legal and all.
>>1902481Mate, the reason China does that is because they decide to let capital reign in their country anyway, however, the CPC isn’t open to labor exploitation of desperate migrants in the same way, if capital did not reign in that country the CPC would not uphold the international labor arbitrage
>Inb4 socialism = scarcity so a socialist society obviously cannot care for a single migrant outside of the auspices of waged labor :)
>>1902481I can't imagine why the most populous country on earth might have more restrictive policies than the US.
It must be because Communism is closed borders plus the deportation of all undocumented people.
>>1902545All undocumented must be deported because a slave-class of migrants is created if not. That's what Communist nations do
>>1902545>they do it because high populationVietnam does it as well. Cuba as well. The strongest borders are always Communist 💪
>>1902549Is this a joke post? Both countries are open for migrants.
>>1898127This thread is literally euroaches arguing how kicking brown and black refugees to bombed to stone age countries or nations literally starving to death due to sanctions and interest exploitation is communist
You're all fucking nazi scum
>>1902714You misunderstanding what I mean by "strong border." The border is open to migrants, but not undocumented. I outline the way imperialist nations treat unaccompanied, visaless minors in comparison to Communist nations to explain what I mean.
>>1902918Why do Communist nations not induct migrant-slave labor?
>>1902918your third worldism reeks
>>1902918The jannies make these threads to push-post and steer. You can only engage with them so much, when it amuses you. They do not really believe in the projects they advance because they know the immigrant issue are a way to bring people to their true causes. If anyone really wanted to stop the immigrants, the border would be closed, existing alien residents would be either repatriated. They don't want that though. They just want to screech like retards for ideology.
>>1902918The average Eurocommunist unironically thinks socialism is when you force out all the black and brown skins, they will unironically use racist historical quotes from socialists to justify it
You have to understand, socialism is not a real possibility in the minds and imaginations of Europeans, usually they actually just mean national socialism, hence why Europe honestly needs to be fenced in, every single euroid country must be occupied, every euroid home must have soldiers placed in every room, machine guns must face the entrance so no one can leave, no food goes in or out, no human goes out, and Europeans finally have their “racially pure” utopia, if they ever dare want out, every last centimeter of that peninsula gets hit, merry Christmas, pasties
>>1903030What about America? How does it differ from Europe?
>>1903037In America we voted Trump out over him caging Mexican children in concentration camps, in the Euroid peninsula politicians who promise to use live bullets against refugees and applaud Israel using white phosphorous at children become prime ministers.
That's the difference between an empathetic and anti-social society
>>1903037American socialists don’t think socialism is synonymous with ethnic cleansing and racial genocide? American socialists don’t happily quote Marx saying “Jewish nigger” to justify racism? American socialists don’t promote nationalism and social conservatism?
Americans don’t become possessed by Hitler particles because we saw a fucking Arab working at the bakery?
>>1903042
>In America we voted Trump out over him caging Mexican children in concentration camps, You are about to reelect him from the looks of most polls.
>in the Euroid peninsula politicians who promise to use live bullets against refugees and applaud Israel using white phosphorous at children become prime ministers.I do not believe you that they said they will shoot refugees. But American establishment pro Israel much more so. It’s America that primarily funds Israel, not Europe. And those refugees are the result of American led wars. Donald trump even in recent debate uses Palestinian as an insult against Biden.
>That's the difference between an empathetic and anti-social societyDo you really believe this? Does that include American whites? Are they really any different from British white for example?
>>1903047>American socialists don’t promote nationalism and social conservatism?CPUSA anon does, but he doesn't speak for us all.
>>1903047>American socialists don’t promote nationalism and social conservatism?CPUSA anon does, but he doesn't speak for us all.
>>1903056Yes we all know America has the most evil government in the world, the thing is, saying “US politicians support Israel” doesn’t mean, “the American people support Israel”, only the oldest generations do, young Americans despise Israel, and they also do not support the wars, not the same as ethnic violence being popular in Europe right now
>>1903047>American socialists don’t happily quote Marx saying “Jewish nigger” to justify racism? That's a leftypol thing. I don't have insider info on the nationalities of the 4chan vets most in favor of jewish nigger.
America is the true Roman and Byzantine succesor by by being a true multiracial globohomo empire. Racist crackers haven't been cool in a century or so. Globohomo is what made America the empire it is today.
http://us.china-embassy.gov.cn/eng/lcbt/sgfyrbt/202405/t20240514_11304155.htm<China's position on the issue of illegal immigration is consistent and clear. The Chinese government firmly opposes all forms of illegal immigration. In recent years, Chinese law enforcement departments have cracked down hard on crimes that harm the tranquility of national border, and maintained a high pressure against all kinds of smuggling organizations and offenders. Our work has produced good results. At the same time, Chinese law enforcement agencies have regular cooperation with relevant countries to jointly tackle cross-border smuggling activities, repatriate illegal immigrants and maintain the order of international flow of people.How is it that Communist China can raise real wages for everyone, especially migrant workers? Why do wages decline in the whole west?
https://english.www.gov.cn/archive/statistics/202405/05/content_WS6637246fc6d0868f4e8e6bd0.html
>>1903089>How is it that Communist China can raise real wages for everyone, especially migrant workers? Why do wages decline in the whole west?Starting from a low base retard. Things have a tendency to reach equilibrium. Western workers are insanely overpaid on the global average.
>>1903093In poor countries, gas is subsidized, not taxed. Think about it dummy.
>>1903047>American socialists don’t happily quote Marx saying “Jewish nigger” to justify racism?People only quote that because it's funny lol
>>1903107The White MLs that quote it find it funny largely because of the contempt they frequently hold for the marginalized communities in their own countries
>Inb4 I have to say not all white MLs Unique IPs: 106