>>2585555>Claims to be Orthodox Christian>Catholic Crusader flag>Corinthian helmet used by pre-Christian pagans.There's plenty of writing and discourse out there about how 80% fascism is just pure aesthetics instead of an actually coherent ideology, but goddamn.
>>2585753Wrong. Israel is not a fascist state, it's not at all comparable to Nazi Germany. Israel is a democracy of and for Israeli Jews, and as such they have all sorts of socdem parties, protesting rights, and independent trade unions to act as guarantors of their benefits. Israelis don't need any sort of Gestapo because they simply fully agree with Zionism.
No such freedoms existed in Nazi Germany because it was a government first and foremost for the interests of conglomerates like Krupp, IG Farben, etc.
Why BE says the Nazis were so concerned about German labor conditions when empirically German labor deaths dramatically increased under Nazi rule even in peacetime is beyond me.
>>2585753>BE's response is literally just "They would have gotten no support if they didn't offer benefits to their people."Hitler literally got put on a leash by Hindenburg who died and used political maneuvering not votes, he got backing from major enterprises, BE's entire post rests on the idea that you and his viewers are historically illiterate enough to forget this but focus on some quote from some book that claims this.
>Germany is similar in arrangement to IsraelNo, did he mean to say it's as bad as Nazi Germany in many ways? Sure. Does he mean it benefits the people there? If he does, Nazi Germany didn't, it sent them to war and made them wartime commodities.
Awful response.
>>2585759I'm not calling any of the German people victims, I'm saying they're retards who fell for a scammer, fuck them and fuck all crackers, I don't give a fuck retard. The land had fuck all to do with it too which is how I know you're an idiot, Hitler was vying for control of Europe, he didn't need more land physically and literally.
Dumbfuck namefag.
>>2585760>I'm saying they're retards who fell for a scammerSo you consider them scam victims, got it.
>>2585760>Hitler was vying for control of Europe, he didn't need more land physically and literally. Wrong. Read lenin. monopolist imperialists always need to kill and expand
>>2585764They agreed with the lies which were already racist garbage so I would call them deserving victims.
>>2585758>Why BE says the Nazis were so concerned about German labor conditions when empirically German labor deaths dramatically increased under Nazi rule even in peacetime is beyond me.Source? This is pretty hard to find.
Even then even if you don't believe that they put corporate interest above workers they straight up just put military interests above workers, this is like the breaking point of anyone who ever said they gave a fuck about labor.
>>2585766I didn't say Lenin was wrong, or that Hitler wasn't trying to turn the war machine outwards, I said his reasoning wasn't valid at all, neither is Israeli, but you also indirectly support Hitler if you agree with his retarded notion that they needed living space, in Hitlers eyes they needed influence and land was an excuse.
>>2585760>Hitler literally got put on a leash by Hindenburg Put on a leash by being made chancellor of Gemany? Lmao now that's actual whiteashing of history.
>>2585769german capital needed to invade and capture land and resources to feed the whole reich. that is mechanically how imperialism works
>>2585758And the liberal zionist has pulled of their mask revealing that the whole trans thing was just a dishonest front, in reality this person agrees with the brand of liberal zionism of people like contra in principle.
Imperial conquest benefitting even the working class of the nation carrying it out is something Marxists have understood going back to Engels. The problem is saying that therefore Imperialism is with the wellbeing of the national proletariat in mind (it's not, it's done for the sake of bourgoeis investors, and benefit to the nation's proletariat is simply because the two share an economy) or that the imperial government as a whole is beneficial to the proletariat (even in the example of Britain, which enslaved half the world, this was not true).
>but Israel is beneficial to Israelis
WHY is this? It's because Israel guarantees land to Israeli Jews and excludes competitors to Israeli Jews in the labor market. It's not as if Nazism prevented some grand influx of slavs into Germany, in fact if you know anything about Nazi Germany they were constantly trying to entice Slavs to work in Germany.
And yes many farmers especially in the East supported Hitler for the promises of Polish lands. That is true. But most Germans even with the encouragement of settlement were still within post-WWI Germany.
>>2585769What sort of idealist bullshit is 'influence' lmao?
>>2585770Give me the book that says otherwise, that's what modern history says.
>>2585772And yet Hitler chose to get as autistic as possible about invading East instead of West.
It's now about why he did, it's about why he went that way.
>>2585773Liberal Zionism is an ideology held by so many Israelis specifically because Liberalism is not at all contradictory to how Israel functions.
>>2585750The Nazis treated their own well. That's the whole reason why people supported it
>>2585777>Give me the book that says otherwise, that's what modern history says.Modern history said that this was a motivation but not what actually effectively happened. What the fuck are you on about this is some crazy historical revision happening here. lmao
>>2585775The same kind of idealist bullshit Hitler was huffing when he started WW2, you guys suck ass at being able to think like the enemy without agreeing with them judging by how many of you are either idiots or full on homophobic crypto fascists.
>>2585776Considering the conservatives helped Hitler up the ladder yeah unironically, but that's besides the point, the point is they didn't even agree with him until after he won, the ones who remained compliant and didn't go silent or get executed all ended up falling for his bullshit after to get sent to war like idiots. They deserved it.
>>2585779I hate you uyghurs so fucking much.
>>2585774>Nazi Germany they were constantly trying to entice Slavs to work in Germany.That's some crazily euphemistic language for forced labor.
>>2585758You have a libtarded understanding of fascism as an ideology or a fixed checklist rather than a stage of capitalism, same reason why some people here were saying Pinochet was not "real fascism" and just an "authoritarian liberal".
>>2585778Well said. Liberalism was compatible with such human atrocities, slavery, colonialism, imperialism all compatible even with the most progressive liberals of their respected times
And yet Netanyahu chose to get as autistic as possible about invading Gaza instead of the West Bank.
>>2585782>The same kind of idealist bullshit Hitler was huffing when he started WW2, you guys suck ass at being able to think like the enemy without agreeing with them judging by how many of you are either idiots or full on homophobic cryptoYou suck at being able to distinguish the material bases for historical events from their top-level bullshit idealism which for. some reason you take at face value which is something only a crazy person would do.
>>2585781>fascism is when the goverment does repression on the local populationlibtardlibtardlibtardlibtardlibtardlibtardlibtardlibtardlibtardlibtard
>>2585785You are the one who chalks fascism up just to ethno-supremacist ideology rather than an actual organization of the government. Maybe you live in a la-la land where Israeli Jews don't enjoy the rights they do in Israel, but most people live in a world where they do indeed have freedom of speech, press, the right to protest, go on strike, etc.
>then why don't they use that to fight the genocide?Because they don't care, and for no other reason.
>>2585790Fascism do indeed be a dictatorship of finance capital!
>>2585783>>2585789I don't give a shit if he won or not, the answer is simple, Hitler had to force the imperialist war machine outward to survive, he already had an alliance, I'm sure no one here in /leftypol/ believes the myth that Stalin was about to stab him in the back, why then did he turn eastward and open a double front instead of focusing on taking control of the most aryan populations of Europe to secure their leadership and resources and peoples?
The answer is because past a certain point it's no longer material, he's just retarded. We like to explain everything through material dialectics so it never happens again, but sometimes we forget these people are just retarded, genuinely and that's what there is to it.
Why are we arguing about this?
Who gives a shit?
What the fuck does this have to do with what BE said?
BE Point 1: Israel benefits Israelis. Sure.
BE Point 2: Nazi Germany benefits Germans. Why? How when every single major leftist from 1925 to a year ago has been trying to debunk this retarded claim? Benefit how? There is not a single thing that they did that is anywhere close to as beneficial as Israel, promises maybe, but they never delivered! And those promises are all still distinct from that of modern Israel!
What the fuck is this conversation going to?
Jesus Christ it feels like I'm in a mental asylum arguing with a bunch of schizoids, what the fuck is this?
Crazy how it just takes 5 posts and a user that initially claimed they disagreed with Bad Empanada because of his 'quasi-transphonic language' then jumps into making some crazily revionist claims on Nazi German history and starts posting Israeli apologia which was foreshadowed by the zionist what-about-sudan-talking point.
This just confirms that BadEm was completely correct on his call-out and that he correctly identified this festering pathology that is rampant among American socdems.
>>2585792it do be like that
>>2585795>This just confirms that BadEm was completely correctmany such cases
>Claiming Nazis weren't socialists is Israeli apologia
That's it I can't take it anymore.
I hope white genocide happens, I hope it does, 100% unironically, and I hope it eventually kills BE, Hasan, Agent Kochinski, and the 99% of these retarded bread tubers.
Then I hope Saudi Arabia and China kill everyone else in nuclear war.
Humanity does not deserve to live, and the best thing that can happen to us is extinction.
I'm leaving, fuck this shithole, and fuck this retarded species of literal shit.
>>2585800Go continue writing your thesis on Ludo-gothic bdsm or whatever before you start flashing your penis to everyone.
>>2585800You think what BE pointed out here
>>2585730 is saying the Nazis were socialists? LOL
Funny how all this defense of the Nazis (oh sorry, I mean, the anti-Nazis who were just TWO WEEKS AWAY from the great German Anti-Nazi revolution!) and this apologia for Israel as being a fairyland of freedom are of the same people.
>>2585800Damn bro chill and review the OP, nothing on social media is real
>>2585804>this is a trollYou are whitewashing treatlerites, chud, they really are like this.
>>2585804Sure, Nazi German conquests benefitted Germany and thus benefitted the workers within Germany, just like how Americans benefit from Imperialism in it securing dollar hegemony and how the British workers benefitted from Imperialism in it securing sources of cheap food among other things. The question was never, did Germans ever benefit from a particular policy enabled by conquest. Its, was Nazi Germany of and for the German working people and was its overall policy beneficial to German working people. You know real wages fell and the cost of living rose for German workers even during peacetime under Nazi rule? Doesn't that demonstrate Nazi rule was not looking out in their interest? Even if they supported enslavement of Eastern Europe since it brought cheap food to German markets, the overall architect of that policy was those who created their fall in real wages in the first place.
This pushing of First World workers to see their interest in defeating their ruling class and supporting internationalism not necessarily out of immediate self interest but rather from a broader overall self interest is a pretty foundational attitude of Communist anti-imperialist organization.
>>2585814>Sure, Nazi German conquests benefitted Germany and thus benefitted the workers within GermanyEndgame anti-imperialism lmao
>>2585814Your mistake is that you just assume first world workers have any self-interest in supporting internationalism. Fact of the matter is that the first world are not "potential allies to the world proletariat" as has been pretended for the past 150 years without any tangible evidence to back it up.
First world workers will be defeated, not aligned with. That is how history will be pushed forward.
>>2585799One last thing, what's the book source, Google refuses to give results when typing out the quotes exactly into the search bar.
Unique IPs: 16