A thread focused on discussing the parasocial relationships cultivated by the
Almighty Algorithm to generate profit off of our atomization and society's commodification of petty internet drama.
Brace through the hyper-real lacanian void together!Reminder That None of This Is Real!™
ɢʀᴀʙ ᴀ ᴘᴀɪʀ ᴏꜰ sᴘᴇᴄᴛᴀᴄʟᴇs
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CORE THEORY >The Society of the Spectacle (1967) by Guy Debord📖 •
https://www.marxists.org/reference/archive/debord/society.htm📺 •
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0blWjssVoUQ
<The Work of Art in the Age of Mechanical Reproduction (1936) by Walter Benjamin📖 •
https://www.marxists.org/reference/subject/philosophy/works/ge/benjamin.htm📺 •
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=blq9sCIyXgA
>The Culture Industry from Dialectic of Enlightenment (1944) by Theodore Adorno & Max Horkheimer📓 •
https://www.marxists.org/reference/archive/adorno/1944/culture-industry.htm📖 •
https://libcom.org/article/dialectic-enlightenment-philosophical-fragments-theodor-adorno-and-marx-horkheimer📺 •
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5hSLdd8R8mY
<Understanding Media (1964) by Marshall McLuhan📖 •
https://leftypol.org/edu/src/1782045945238-0.pdf📺 •
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=09ML9n5f1fE
>One-Dimensional Man (1964) by Herbert Marcuse📖 •
https://libcom.org/article/one-dimensional-man-studies-ideology-advanced-industrial-society-herbert-marcuse📺 •
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9ZCoLbEkAqs
<Discipline and Punish (1975) by Michel Foucault📖 •
https://theanarchistlibrary.org/library/michel-foucault-discipline-and-punishment📺 •
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s82uU4iRuko
>Simulacra and Simulation (1981) by Jean Baudrillard 📖 •
https://leftypol.org/edu/src/1782045945238-1.pdf📺 •
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1Yxg2_6_YLs
<Manufacturing Consent (1988) by Edward S. Herman & Noam Chomsky📖 •
https://libcom.org/article/manufacturing-consent-political-economy-mass-media-noam-chomsky-and-edward-s-herman📺 •
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=34LGPIXvU5M
>The Sublime Object of Ideology (1989) by Slavoj Zizek📖 •
https://leftypol.org/edu/src/1782045945238-2.pdf📺 •
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TtIckkHsUQ4
<Postscript on the Societies of Control (1990) by Gilles Deleuze 📖 •
https://theanarchistlibrary.org/library/gilles-deleuze-postscript-on-the-societies-of-control📺 •
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hu4Cq_-bLlY
>Postmodernism, or, the Cultural Logic of Late Capitalism (1991) by Fredric Jameson📖 •
https://leftypol.org/edu/src/1782045945238-3.pdf📺 •
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_4k26xGx1zI
<Spectres of Marx (1993) by Jacques Derrida📖 •
https://libcom.org/library/specters-marx-jacques-derrida📺 •
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TJr0NwXWb6Q
>Capitalist Realism (2009) by Mark Fisher📖 •
https://libcom.org/article/capitalist-realism-mark-fisher📺 •
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6Cb5XJH4NMI—————————————————–
SUPPLEMENTARY MATERIAL
>Precursor Material to Post-modernity and Critical Theory📖 •
Karl Marx - Book 1, Chapter 4 of
Economic and Philosophic Manuscripts (1844)
https://www.marxists.org/archive/marx/works/1844/manuscripts/labour.htm📺 •
Why Marx Was Right: Alienation - PlasticPills
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gPRxxN4Kh30📖 •
Georg Lukács - Chapter 4 of
History and Class Consciousness (1923)
https://www.marxists.org/archive/lukacs/works/history/hcc05.htm📺 •
Marxism After Marx: Reification - The Marxist Project
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uZiI-QKxBKI 📖 •
Antonio Gramsci - Book 1, Chapter 1 of
Selections from the Prison Notebooks (1929)
https://www.marxists.org/archive/gramsci/prison_notebooks/problems/intellectuals.htm📺 •
Hegemony: WTF? An introduction to Gramsci and cultural hegemony - Tom Nicholas
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-LI_2-qsovo📖 •
Louis Althusser -
Ideology and Ideological State Apparatuses (1970)
https://www.marxists.org/reference/archive/althusser/1970/ideology.htm📺 •
Althusser's Concept of Ideology: A Discussion with Anthony Gavin - Acid Horizon
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gtOqXxkKwvw
<Documentaries•
The Society of the Spectacle (1974) by Guy Debord
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mjF6I6SYjgA•
Manufacturing Consent (1992) by Mark Achbar & Peter Wintonick, with Noam Chomsky
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Li2m3rvsO0I•
The Pervert's Guide to Cinema (2006) and
The Pervert's Guide to Ideology (2012) by Sophie Fiennes, with Slavoj Zizek
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FYuI4SFw4g0https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oBcFLmu_tlc•
HyperNormalisation (2016) by Adam Curtis
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4bv3Tr3jvZM&rco
>Easy-Bake Breadtube (for absolute beginners)•
We're All Fake Now - Wisecrack
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RTW1mPOJJ_Y•
Are Cell Phones Replacing Reality? - PBS Idea Channel
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8AXIAM7dTTg•
The Cultural Significance of Cyberpunk - Cuck Philosophy
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nvor7hhDKTs•
Introduction to Critical Theory for the 21st Century - Nathan Dufour
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e7stVZPGxIw•
The Work of Art in the Age of Surveillance Capitalism - Brendan Morris
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aNKiBJJFXZI
<Situationist Archives•
https://situationist.org/•
https://notbored.org/SI.html•
https://bopsecrets.org/SI/index.htm—————————————————–
RECOMMENDED OP-EDS•
I Don’t Want to Be an Internet Person by Ginevra Davis
https://www.palladiummag.com/2022/11/04/i-do-not-want-to-be-an-internet-person/•
Pluralistic: Tiktok's enshittification by Cory Doctorow
https://pluralistic.net/2023/01/21/potemkin-ai/#hey-guys•
Facebook's Threads is so depressing by Jason O. Gilbert
https://jogblog.substack.com/p/facebooks-threads-is-so-depressing>>2912666not really, no other actual leftist ideology made such impact in europe and america.
if you said Sucessful revolutions then you would be right.
A DOTP makes no sense because communism is the proletariat abolishing itself, the nature of any dictatorship is self preservation at all costs, in this case meaning the preservation of class distinctions lest the proletarian police put themselves out of a job by physically removing all the bourgeois and lumpen.
>>2912668Your own homeboy Lenin said “all else but power is illusory”, where have Leninists in the first world had power? A couple of elected seats? Being parliamentary remora on social democrats and trade unions that the Chinese broke?
>>2912666As opposed to other communist tendencies which have achieved plenty in the west…
>>2912671Perhaps it’s time for an entirely new tendency
>>2912245>china is socialistAnon, thinking that
is a quintessential example of leftoids hitting a total theoretical dead end. You are what you think your naysayers are, you are just to stupid/deperately ignorant to realize it.
>leftypol twitter capTop post is them stating a completely obvious fact.
Lower post is them is also stating a completely obvious fact: they are retarded.
>>2912671forgot about the ACP award
>>2912673In 50 years the US will be at war with canada, demoted to regional power, living in conditions that make post soviet shock therapy look like a joke, on the verge of civil war and balkanization, and still US leftoids will be wondering "why isn't socialism winning? Where is the revolution?"
Because they don't realize that the ongoing decline and destruction of their society *is* the revolution.
>>2912669>A DOTP makes no sense because communism is the proletariat abolishing itself, the nature of any dictatorship is self preservation at all costsDictatorship of the proletariat can be directly translated to proletarian democracy. It is the domination of the working class
as a class over the capitalist class. The self preservation of that class domination nessecitates the negation of capitalist class power, of capitalism, and thus the negation of the proletariat as a class. The DOTP dissolves not because the proletariat loose class power, but because the mechanisms of being a proletarian are no longer in operation.
>the proletarian police put themselves out of a job by physically removing all the bourgeois and lumpen.If you remove them physicllay but do not dismantle the
mode of production then those classes will reemerge. A class is not a physical set of people, it is a social relation. A class cannot be
abolished by decree, only by changing the mode of production. Communism abolishes the proletarian class because the mode of production has no capitalists. No capitalists = no proletarians.
>>2912667>implying that china can magically decide how much the workers are paidyou are not that different from the jacobin-magazine/verso-books type leftists that you're trying to criticize. both of you have dropped marxist economics in favor of vibe-guessing
>>2912643Azov Something's later youtube stuff strikes me as someone who creates content for the algorithms first.
It maps to a certain kind of audience,but only as a byproduct of the algo trends he chases. Redditor STEMlord stuff was trendyback then and now he aptly recognizes the boosting power of NAFO format propaganda and leftoid debatebro culture being in high demand, as we are plunged into apocalyptic, forever-neoliberalism.
It is no surprise that Adam gratuitously involves other tuber's faces and sprinkles "memetic"(from the point of view of the algo) videoclips around without much rhyme or reason. He's not speaking to you, the viewer, he's talking to the algorithm. And the algorithm understands.
He's doing SEO in video format.
>>2912705Do you think Americans would stop doing regime change operations if they became communist? Fuck no, they’d do it more and harder
>>2912682Are Chinese workers paid less than the value of what they produce? I'm talking about all the stuff that fills up McMansions in America. The U.S. consumes and China produces. So if you're thinking China is this alternative that zoomers have discovered after Mark Fisher roped after he got depressed, I question that because if China did not export that and Americans did not consume it, then the whole mess will blow up because it's part of the same system.
>>2912708Which is why china is doing controlled demolition of the US. Western workers should strategize on that basis, not on the delusions of first world socialist revolution
But westerners have a fixation on apocalyptic narratives. It feels vaguely family-annihilator adjacent, like let's destroy the whole world and go out with a bang while we're on top, so the history of humanity ends on the west, so it doesn't move on without them.
Too bad, the international proletariat is winning, and instead of epic mad max advrntures you're going to have to roll up your sleeves and build world communism with the rest of us
>>2912714> Western workers should strategize on that basis, not on the delusions of first world socialist revolutionAny hints wiseman?
>>2912705Western left has seemingly achieved since the fall of the USSR :
>Rivers of ink denouncing every form of AES>Renaming social democracy to socialism>Renaming (any amount of)welfare to social democracy>Then doing neoliberalism and imperialism for half a century instead anywayAnd now that the runway is running out, and it's our relative slice of heaven being told that actually 90s Russia was a model to emulate,they are like: "Alright, the time has come to start doing politics eh? The masses are just about destitute enough to fall in our lap and do
The Revolution (tm)." at best.
>>2912730Latin America is the west, they’re the ones that still have the Cuban revolution and ongoing guerrilla movements and the multiple pink tides
>>2912643>>2912698 (me)
That said I fully support youtube Drama involving Azov Something and BE(BadEmpanada is his content slop slave name).
I don't think Adam is as flatly stupid of a person as Ethan Klein was. But he's been cultivating the braindead NATOid viewership for so long that I can imagine something rubbing off of him, you know? Adam may just take the bait and get humiliated to tears live, out of hubris.
Though lets be honest here, anyone who parlays their way into a well paying internet job for posting low effort dogshit, can't be too stupid to begin with.
>>2912730Anyone who thinks revolution will come from masses tired of impovershiment needs to read about the Tocqueville effect.
And applied elite theory.
>>2909606Whenever Puddle of Mudd comes up I always think of the trailer for Ace Combat 5 where it completely ruins the mood set up by the rest of the trailer.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iWRdMX1VaZA >>2912760Dunno, man. He comes off really really stupid, and honestly he's like those sceptic channels from 10 years back that only debunked the dumbest flat Earthers, then went off course and turned out to be just as dumb reactoids
>>2912858>overcome elite theoryElite theory is not the same as Aristocracy.
Elite theory is study of how organized minorities rule over disorganized majorities.
In this case, Mao represented a new elite that replaced the old.
>>2912957Elite theory is retarded. Just mathematically it's impossible for it to be real. Every actual elite knows they're beholden to a mass base. They get overthrown precisely when the mass base rescinds support.
It's just cope by westoids to simultaneously deny spcialism is posdible + deny responsibility for their own countries' atrocities, like they're some smol beans snd can't be held accountable
>>2912973very vulgar understanding of elite theory
>>2912974>my geocentric model is actually very intricate, it's not *just* vulgar "sun revolves around earth"Who cares. Not every crackpot akkkademic navel gazing "theory" is worth giving a benefit of the doubt to
>>2912979Elite theory is a valid extension of class analysis, in fact some of the most influential and early writers are Marxists. The only naval gazing here is treating classes and the state as these hovering clouds that don't merit any further analysis, fundamentally non-materialist.
>>2912992It's the very intruduction of transhiatorical, ontol9gical category of "elites" that's a floating unjustified abstraction.
It's going *more* abstract from class, not more concrete.
The more concrete direction is the question of political organization and social reproduction of classes in society, conditioned by material and economic conditions, not dissecting some nebulous category of "elites"
Is there an actually good leftist online community anywhere?
xcancel dead again, the bourgeoisie took it from you
>>2913120literally yeah, elon musk took it down, and took down the nitter project too
I am greatly enjoying the crusade against Destinity Dave Explains is on.
>>2913118She's an evil bourgeois bitch but Joyce Messier deserves better than being forever associated with the most annoying user in lefttwt and original coiner of Treatlerism theory.
Who are some officially proved YouTubers by /ISG/?
>>2912730>Renaming social democracy to socialismStalinists did this, not the western left.
>>2913130>and original coiner of Treatlerism theory.like i said, a legend
>>2913132trvth svper nova
>>2912642>It's not even that, if you want to subvert the eugenicist ideology you can't just adopt its categories and flip the valence.See, this is a fair critique (a far cry from chatgpt generated bullshit), but I still think it engages with a single sentence from the 50 minute talk (which points me back to falling for enrage bait on xitter), and I still consider that the brunt of the talk to be fairly spot on
>The belief that capitalism is eugenic in the sense of trying to promote people attaining an ideal (instead of simply as a means to discriminate against people) is just wrong.She didn't even say this, she ties fitness under capitalism as tied to the production of the future workforce, and that MAHA stretches it to projecting "national strength" too
> To then position a positive programme for healthiness ("the fantasy of being fitter than the fascists") as simply going with the flow of that ideology rather than pushing against the current is to just get backwards what's happening.It's so funny because then you would be in agreement with her when she brings up "communists" ceding ground by "competing" in fitness competitions against fascists in xitter, you'd think this would be more in-line with current ideology than a single slightly cheeky comment about "the more dysgenic the better". it just doesn't seem like you're very fair or balanced with your criticism, and it seems like a post-hoc justification for falling for ragebait, which would still be embarrassing.
>>2912957>Neema ParviniPower comes and will always come from the masses btw
>>2913130>original coiner of Treatlerism theory.is this real? beast mode if true
>Punches Jesus
I do this
>>2913189It comes from the complicity or passivity of the masses.
Every day that capitalism stands is every day that the proletariat allow it to.
>>2913335I'm sure this will age well and she won't regret this in the least
>>2913335Okay but where's the toxic yuri fanart of the two of them
>>2913372iSSraelis should be unethically cleansed
>>2913356>zohranSo the other one is a zionist too? I'm confused.
>>2913395Yoo they got a Trot AI lmao
>>2913481her face is so weird
>>2913492The fact that normies cream their pants over her is proof that they are insane.
>>2913523>the jimmy dore showmakes me sick motherfucker, how far we done fell
>>2913492>her face is so weird>>2913510>The fact that normies cream their pants over her is proof that they are insane.You're being deliberate contrarians. She's easily +8/10 natural and the clip adds filters.
>>2913481Queen of the Pick Me's
>>2913546>Queen of the Pick Me'sI don't know about that. I'm fully convinced by the ad and she's well paid for it. I like her and she feels like a pretty cool person.
>>2913545She's obviously hot. I think the contrarianism comes from the fact right-wingers have decided she's the undisputed hottest woman of all time and basically the only hot woman on the planet right now and if you disagree you're a fag. It's weird.
>>2913481this is the trad aryan wife. I mean this in a semiotic sense.
>>2913549>She's obviously hot. I think the contrarianism comes from the fact right-wingers have decided she's the undisputed hottest woman of all time and basically the only hot woman on the planet right now and if you disagree you're a fag. It's weird.Yes, 100%
>>2913545>that is 8/10 in muttoidlandlol. lmao, even.
your standards have become nonexistent because so many of you are so fat that you all view any woman who isn't visibly obese as "hot".
Does anyone here actually watch sports?
>>2913563>lol. lmao, even. Okay, but do you watch sports?
>>2913549She is hot for sure, but like you're saying it's way exaggerated. Reminds me of the way people used to talk about Megan Fox back in like 2012, except in her case I think it was warranted.
>>2913545i think i'd find her face weird in reality as well. bet it'd be even weirder without makeup and professional lighting and filters.
>>2913569drooling and simping over celebs as arbiters of beauty has always been pretty retarded tho
>>2913576>drooling and simping over celebs as arbiters of beauty has always been pretty retarded thoToday was actually one of my more mundane days and this clip made my day.
>>2913578which is fine and dandy, i am the last one to judge for people taking joy in looking at naked bodies.
>>2913225>Anyone here follow Rob Ashlar (@RashmanTheHorse)? […] Sometimes I get a feeling he is pro-AQ and sometimes antiYeah I follow him. Idk either, he seems sympathetic to Sunni jihadists as a social revolutionary movement, but I've also seen him describe Osama Bin Laden as a rich clown playing revolutionary and Daesh-ism as a deranged nihilistic thing, but he is very knowlegeable. He wrote a long history of the Sunni insurgency in Iraq for Cosmonaut.
>Assad dead-enders call him "ISIS Rob" lol.Yeah that's a funny nickname too.
>>2913205>borders are evilit's true, jeezy did illegally immigrate to egypt as a baby to escape king herod the babykiller
>>2913563As a counter-point, could you post what type of woman would constitute an 8/10?
I know it's reddit but there has been a real obvious push of zionist rhetoric and bots all over, it's really fucking obvious.
>>2912245guy who thinks china is socialist and that capitalist realism (the book) was promoting capitalist realism (the ideology). probably also thinks Das Kapital is pro-capitalism.
>>2913607i think he correctly intuits that there's something wrong with Anthropic monopolizing access to information, but he has the kind of old-fashioned conservative brainworms where he thinks it is all in service of spreading the woke agenda. honestly it's a somewhat rare take because conservative boomers love AI, and i suspect he arrived there because he draws for a living.
>>2913696
>Every fucking kid in the West is subjected to these three ideas straight from birth
>China is not socialist
Actually it's "China is communist tyranny unlike the liberal democratic west"
>>2912673>Anon, thinking that is a quintessential example of leftoids hitting a total theoretical dead end.On the contrary, you have to fight hard against the propaganda and programming from childhood in order to recognize China as socialist.
Every fucking kid in the West is subjected to these three ideas straight from birth, via internet censorship and English-language or outright glowie controlled sites:
- China is not socialist
- China betrayed Vietnam/The USSR/Albania/etc.
- China is imperialist and threatening others, or even outright fascist (as has been repeated here before by certain posters who have no idea what fascism actually entails)
You are not immune to propaganda but the worst part about it is you claim that your stance, which lines up perfectly with what Western governments want, is the correct one. Even Russian government repeats the same smear (China abandoned socialism etc.) through its media. One would think it's odd that both Russia and America use the same talking points to denigrate China but that doesn't ring alarm bells amongst the "anti campists" for some reason.
Belarusian Communists actually visited the CPC for private discussions, and they came back reporting that in internal political communication the CPC characterizes people like Trump as far right fascist imperialists who are seeking to violently maintain their hegemony to the detriment of workers around the world, and that the far-right offers no real solutions to the problems confronting the working class. One of the Belarusian analysts noted that the idea of China "abandoning socialism" was repeatedly pushed on them by the Americans over the years, but they clearly saw first-hand that the CPC's officials had not abandoned ideology and the Americans were lying.
(repost since I accidentally cut off half of my original post)
>>2913707The West uses different narratives to unify hatred against China. Against retarded Conservatives and standard neoliberals they use the Communist tyranny line, but for the left they're clever enough to attack China from a purity standpoint and to use stuff like Vietnam's disputes or Hoxha/Albania or outright Maoist rhetoric to try to do so. Somehow leftcoms never catch on to this narrative discrepancy or how the Americans successfully managed to unite everyone around the idea of hating China.
>>2913714>China is not socialist Objectively true.
>China betrayed Vietnam/USSR/AlbaniaObjectively true.
>China is imperialistObjectively true.
Didn't read the rest of your Dengoid cope btw
>>2913731stinky rotten bait
>>2913756Biden? Didn't he die or something?
>>2913760No. Maybe there's something to those blood infusion longevity treatments because it seems like the worst people ever also live the longest. If you want to live to 100 you either need to be a Japanese farmer or a yankee war criminal.
>>2913714>Every fucking kid in the West is subjected to these three ideas straight from birth, via internet censorship and English-language or outright glowie controlled sites:>China is not socialistThat one is a double edged sword. It's socialist or not socialist depending on whether or not bourgeois propaganda wants to emphasize how evil and repressive they are or wants to handwave away its economic success. When talking about how repressive and unfree it is then this is shown as the inevitable result of communism. But when trying to explain why it's so successful then it suddenly becomes capitalist. In either case, any objective assessment of relations of production in China will show that it is a capitalist economy, even if this is just a stage in socialist construction.
>China betrayed Vietnam/The USSR/Albania/etc. They literally did though. They went to war with Vietnam and waged two proxy wars (in direct cooperation with the CIA) against the USSR in Afghanistan and Angola. China was objectively part of the Western geopolitical camp from 1976-1991. Also, the Sino-Soviet split is hardly featured prominently in mainstream discourse around China, most likely because the average normie wouldn't care if China betrayed the USSR. Also Western porkies probably aren't keen to advertise how closely they worked with China against the Soviets in the 80s given that they are now trying to demonize them.
>China is imperialist and threatening others, or even outright fascistI agree that this one is not true.
>>2913691there are only three e's, oh-ohhhh
there are only three e's, oh-ohhhh
>>2913846Asmon mostly reacts to the crazies on the left
>>2913752Saved. Real Marxists are anti-western. Forget about Marxism 200 years ago.
The real conflict of today is The West vs. The Rest. You are not a Marxist if you are not anti-Western.
>>2913848Was he reacting to the crazies on the left when he called for foreign children to be murdered
>>2913481truth nuke: every attractive woman or man that appears on a screen and bases the validity of his/her points on attractiveness is a prostitute
all marketing is also prostitution
only debate bros can talk politics and philosophy without being prostitutes, only workers that don't need to show their face or height to earn a living are prostitutes
I say this as a guy who got hired in a zoomcall/email type job due to having above average looks, if you depend on your looks for people to listen to you and/or pay you you are a type of whore.
therefore the true merit of an argument is shown only on anonymous internet forums.
>>2913900bad empanada is a superior intellectual specimen than Hasan the manwhore because bad empanada is ugly and balding, yet he annihilates Hasan every time.
>>2913481I will never understand how people thirst for women showing half a titty when deepthroat double penetration anal face slap porn exists
>>2913492This
If you already like gringo aesthetics already I can see forgiving the butter face, but I haven’t seen a white woman I’d miscegenate with since 2015.
>>2913901At least Hasan is useful for deflecting away the right’s obsession with transgenderism.
>>2913205Jesus was more of an apocalyptic preacher than a hippie. And modern religion is more of an ethnonationalist ideology than a set of principles, so this is actually very consistent.
>>2913481She'd be nowhere near as famous had she been non-white and had smaller tits.
>>2912643Tellingly, the Empanada won't touch the RF invasion of Ukraine, even if it gets shoved in his face by the shittiest of NAFOids for half an hour straight.
BE is still convinced that if he waits long enough, he won't need to backtrack on his early takes, because the RF will eventually "lose". Which is a safe bet to make because these things come with totalizing propaganda on all sides proclaiming their victory at the end. Same reason why he hasn't even touched the Nordstream sabotage or the economic rearrangement of NATO allies, in the context of the cold war. It's the elephant in the room when he talks about Venezuela, (or S Smerica and MENA). Or when he wears the third-worldist hat and rails about the privileged first worlders and western imperialism. BE can't acknowledge the cold war, without inviting unfortunate conclusions.
I think BE is waiting for the official narrative to drop, so he can follow the compatible left spinoff. Which may be an inflection point for this miniature version of the "dirtbag left" that has formed around BE's disruption antics. Many people (chiefly, the NRS funded and China adjacent left) are holding this hope that such crisis of globalized capitalism will eventually give way to more regional conflicts, and those to pockets of socialism. I have a feeling those people will yet champion many Rojavas, "student uprisings", "XYZ Activists" and "leaderless/horizontal movements" before they get blackpilled to something worse.
>>2913980Idk. I think people overrate how much this is a thing in Star Wars for example, where the rebels still have military uniforms and are pretty professional. In the original trilogy they are a proper army.
You definitely have a point about films and games a whole though in recent years, and this is especially so with 'woke' films or games.
On the other hand there has also been a militarisation of the good guys, turning them into the U$ marines basically. Loads of films in the last 20 years have done this. Terminator turned the human resistance from scrappy, dirty rebels into the U$ army. The competency of the good guys faction is basically tied to what American ideology the creators follow. If they are conservative, the good guys are marines. If they are liberals, the good guys are spiritual eco-anarchist freedom warriors.
It makes sense why leftists don't want to make the good guys soldiers (in stories where they should be), because they are afraid to glorify the military. But this also a large propaganda mistake. Socialist art should glorify revolutionary soldiers and guerrillas, while also being realistic in its depiction of war and armed struggle.
>>2913928Of course AOCIA came in to defend Ed Sheeran of course
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KOy6MegaMdQ One Battle After Another is one of the worst films ever and is a demoralisation op. It uses 'realism' as an excuse to make fun of revolution, and shows revolutionaries as weak and pathetic. Like legitimately I can't think of a more counter-revolutionary film than this one, and the ending is especially bad (with energy channelled into liberal actions).
>>2914008Would it surprise you to find out that its director is a zionist
>>2914008Its loosely based on a Pynchon novel called vineland which is about leftist revolutionaries on the eve of reagans reelection in 1984
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vineland
>Vineland is a 1990[a] postmodern novel by Thomas Pynchon set in California in 1984, the year of President Ronald Reagan's reelection.[6] Through flashbacks, its characters, who lived through the 1960s, account for the free spirit of rebellion of that decade, and describe the traits of the "fascistic Nixonian repression" and the war on drugs that clashed with it. The book portrays transformations in U.S. society from the 1960s to the 1980sthe book of course is much smarter than the movie
>>2913846"all i wanted to do was play video games"
>>2914008>>2914009>>2914010I haven't read the book, but the movie literally makes them a billion times more capable than the groups they were based on(the SLA and WU.) In the movie, they're liberating immigrant detention camps and killing off conservative politicians. In real life the highest-ranking political figure these groups managed to kill was a local black superintendent. they also got themselves blown up when they tried to make a bomb and all died/got arrested in their only shootout.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marcus_Foster#Deathhttps://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greenwich_Village_townhouse_explosionhttps://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Symbionese_Liberation_Army#Police_shootout >>2914011>"all i wanted to do was play video games"They made all the women in my games ugly and then I got recommended Asmongold. A lot of his videos are just common sense.
>>2914018>This is what I mean when I say that these guys are not ideological RWers, their political views begin and end with the goonslop they prefer. I have more respect for RWers who are consistent with their politics.Not sure about any of that but whatever is going on, it's working.
>>2914018Idk I think it's more consistent fascism to just be like "yeah women shouldn't be able to read their porn books but men should have 100% access to porn games, because it's not the same". Kind of shit Plato would have said
>>2914034I'm not talking about fascism, I'm talking about the right wing thought general and even left-wing thought. the ACP guys are against smut as well.
>>2914007What's going on with these interviews where AOC just walks down the stairs of Congress, gets immediately confronted with some specific popcultural issue (last time she was asked about fucking Clavicular) and she knows exactly all about it?
Seems surreal, something really feels off about her during the last couple of months
>>2914042also thinking "Plato is Fascism"
>>2914044Getting ready to lose the next big election. Pokemon Go to the polls and such
>>2914052Tries to deflect from him losing his cases
>>2914052I don't think macklemore is antisemitic but that outfit was crazy lol
>>2914018>>2914034>>2914042>>2914046Sirs, I have a humble question. What do you think about the theology in W40K?
>>2914061Weird question, but like pretty much everything in 40K, it was “inspired” by other media the writers liked. In this case Leto II from Dune and King Huon from Michael Moorcock were mixed together with the aesthetic of Catholic imagery, especially Jesus on the cross. I don’t think there was ever any serious theology considered beyond it looking metal, but of course it evolved over time into mostly pseudo-Catholicism, Orthodoxy, or Islam depending on the character and chapter.
The followers of Chaos criticism of him is basically 1:1 what an edgy Nietzschean would say about Christianity, while the way his followers believe in him is also very Christian-like.
>>2914061God awful. WH is like taking Dune and remove all its smart commentary about religion and power and turn it into dualistic slop.
>>2914061>W40Kfascistic culture
>>2914088How is it dualistic slop?
>>2914104If the Tau manifest the Greater Good as a warp entity then that would officually be /ourguy/.
>>2913870I am so glad that cultural era has mostly passed. Not that we have anything better; its a different kind of shit, but just because we are fed horseshit now doesn't mean I am not happy that we are fed a lot less dogshit.
>>2914251
>Of course you're a Warhammer fan. Leftypol continues to make the most reactionary choices possible in any given situation.
Oh, let's not describe half of what's real and just focus on the other half and call it all of reality. Is that what this is?
>>2914251
who is leftypol
>>2914274If you're not not a bot on a shelf, how would you know?
>>2914274What's sad about it?
>>2914291never mind, it's not sad. the purpose of a system is what it does.
>>2914391Extremely rare Poland W
>>2914104I think WH40k pigeonholed the C'Tan into generic eldritch evil.
C'Tan, are superintelligences old as the universe's first steps, evolved from the medium of celestial energy . C'Tan are masters of the material and reject the warp. The physical universe is a canvas with scarce secrets to them. And they have demonstrated the power to seal the warp.
Non eldritch rolecasted C'Tan could uplift the whole of sentient life with optimal technology, ultimate understanding and true immortality beyond the need for the warp or "souls". It would literally be a god of materialism, if the writers hadn't made up all that nonsense about devouring souls and discarding their cosmic insight to become retarded cliches as soon as they are given an physical body.
>>2914104Malhal before it was retconned was claimed to be the god of anarchy for what it's worth.
>>2914445thats how he gets those clicks and his brainwashed followers donate money
>>2914445>but when there is a report that Netanyahu might have known about October 6th?i wont watch this video but this is neighboring conspiracy theories about HAMAS being some sort of israeli psyop, which is an openly liberal zionist talking point, and i would at least raise my eyebrow at someone peddling it because there's also no real practical reason to bringing it up or debate it, really. israel was committing a genocide before oct 7th too.
>>2914455>conspiracy theories about HAMAS being some sort of israeli psyopMust be refering to how Israel propped Hamas against Fatah 3 or 4 decades ago. But that's just a case of shortsightedness just like how the US propped the talibans against the Soviets.
>>2914459>Must be refering to how Israel propped Hamas against Fatah 3 or 4 decades ago.yeah but it's extended it to make it seem like it's entirely a netanyahu project culminating in oct 7
>>2914230Funniest thing about wh40k is that you have all these objectively evil factions from barbaric space fascism to aliens whose culture is based on rape-torture, to omnicidal robots to space locusts to fungus with guns
And then you have the Tau, who represent the grimdark horrors of a vaguely problematic collectivist government as perceived by a western liberal.
>>2914484I thought the tau were a vague parody of NATO's rainbow imperialism?
>>2914463>yeah but it's extended it to make it seem like it's entirely a netanyahu project culminating in oct 7People can genuinely believe in these theories but I think there's a lot of motivated reasoning going on, like trying to get others to detach their support for Palestine from Hamas (because they're Islamists), but they don't want to say that attacking Israel is bad per se, so they'll say the attack was an Israeli plot. Partisangirl also said stuff like that (before 10/7) because Hamas didn't like Assad so actually they were an Israeli psyop or something. A lot of people have certain established beliefs and affinities and then they hunt around for "facts" that support it so if you don't like Hamas for some reason, but you're not a Zionist per se because of the people you're socializing with, then the motivation is stronger to advance a conspiracy theory about Hamas, whereas if you were just a Zionist you'd just consider them to be terrorist enemies. So there can be an internal logic to conspiracy theorists even if it's some bullshit that people just made up.
Is it possible though that Netanyahu was warned in advance and did nothing because he wanted to react heavily and exploit it? Idk, it's possible but he could've also fucked up or not expected the attack to be as bad as it was.
>>2914459>Must be refering to how Israel propped Hamas against Fatah 3 or 4 decades ago. But that's just a case of shortsightedness just like how the US propped the talibans against the Soviets.Shortsightedness is also very characteristically Israeli. Right now they're in a whole sweat about Turkish influence in Syria and how alarming that is so LET'S ATTACK TURKISH INTERESTS IN SYRIA. I really think Americans in D.C. sat down with them and were like what the fuck do not do that, stop being idiots.
>>2914488It's WH40K. They're whatever they need to be, just like everyone else.
>>2913686>capitalist realism (the book) was promoting capitalist realism (the ideology)It does that by conjuring up the mystifying notion of "capitalist realism" which rests on the premise that
- USSR and China are not "real alternatives"
- Westerners are "ideologically brainwashed" rather than being mini hitlers
>>2913900I'm reading the Elric books now and they're kinda cool.
>>2913686Communism is pro-capitalism
>>2911853>One of these people said that fat people are being genocided by glp-1s, a completely ridiculous take that is maybe even harmful as leftists need to be able to clearly call out actual genocides happening due to imperialism without seeming like dupes who call everything genocide. The "Socialism Conference" has hosted and promoted regime change apologism back in 2019. Shouldn't be suprised that a conference that promoted regime change and the "Uighur Genocide" and "Free Hong Kong" also believes that "Fat Genocide" is a thing. Only in America could "Fat Liberation" ever even be a serious topic. You do not hate these people enough.
https://thegrayzone.com/2019/07/06/dsa-jacobin-iso-socialism-conference-us-funded-regime-change/>Socialism is now apparently brought to you by the US State Department.>From July 4 to 7, thousands of left-wing activists from across the United States are gathering in Chicago for the 2019 Socialism Conference.>At this event, some of the most powerful institutions on the American socialist — but avowedly anti-communist — left have brought together a motley crew of regime-change activists to demonize Official Enemies of Washington.>Another longtime ally who has spoken at every single annual Socialism Conference since 2009, Anand Gopal, works at a liberal foundation that is directly funded by the US State Department. He is headlining a panel this year to provide “A Socialist View of the Arab Spring.”>Yet another 2019 conference panel rails against the socialist governments of Nicaragua and Cuba — two-thirds of John Bolton’s “troika of tyranny” — with outspoken proponents of regime change. One of the speakers, Dan La Botz, hosted an event in 2018 that featured right-wing Nicaraguan activists wearing masks and disguised as students, who were junketed to meet with Republican lawmakers in Washington by the US government-funded right-wing organization Freedom House.>>2911847>She still said that being dysgenic is good, actually.BTW, "dysgenic" doesn't exist.
>>2910925so a literally who who stalks another literally who
>>2914602they wouldn't even let scooby doo into the courthouse with him.. amerikkka is a cruel nation
>>2914447>Malhal before it was retconned was claimed to be the god of anarchy for what it's worth.Malal? That's… an interesting choice? The anon
>>2914104 asked if you had to invent one to represent the left or leftist things. You don't have to invent one for greed because we've got that culturally as the Mammon.
Others who don't get W40K can watch a video on the Warp to get what we're talking about.
>>2914488>I thought the tau were a vague parody of NATO's rainbow imperialism?The Tau don't know about the Warp yet
>>2914445>when there is a report that Netanyahu might have known about October 6th? A crazy conspiracy!>>2914455>i wont watch this video but this is neighboring conspiracy theories about HAMAS being some sort of israeli psyopIsrael supported Hamas against PLO the same way the USA supported mujahideen against Taraki, Iranian clerics against Tudeh, and Al Jolani against Assad.
How hard is it to understand that imperialists support jihadists against secular nationalist and/or socialist forces, as a precursor to supporting zionists against jihadists? All support is conditional and predicated on later backstabbing.
Anyway zionist and neocon imperialists knew both about 9/11 and 10/7 in advance. both events were highly beneficial to their hardliners and foreign policy strategists. someone like BE hates recognizing this because the israeli and us civilians are ontologically evil and deserve to die… therefore anyone who does mass killings of them cannot possibly be useful idiots of the most bloodthirsty factions of the imperialists looking to rally the population for more war.
>>2914505Same. It's been cool to see the origin of alot of the tropes and worldbuilding that may seem cliche now, but were new then and handled in a surprisingly thoughtful, even-handed way by Moorcock those decades ago. Like I very much appreciate that while Elric is a quintessential "i'm not like the other guys" guy with a crazy background, he is actually quite human, fallible, and sympathetic. A good blend of capable, aloof, and utter goober. Handful of moments I straight laughed out loud at Elric's corny ass. Fun series.
>>2914622>picalways makes me laugh
>>2914391This guy's crowdwork is always really funny. I do wonder how you stumble into his show as a Trump dickrider though lmao
>>2914391>what's your favorite war<whichever is the most profitablethe burger is honest and bloodthirsty
>>2914445Didn't watch the video award
> say that bombing gays is bad
> you have been banned from reddit
Lmao
>>2914512based and historical progression pilled?
>>2914663the straights should be bombed too, chud
>>2911853>The other one basically said that disabled people have revolutionary potential and should not be left out. An entirely obvious conclusion to anyone who spent 30 seconds engaging in mass politicsWhat's insidious about it though is that it's trying to spin the recent pro-fitness trend on the left as reactionary. The issue isn't just what she said (though that was pretty retarded given she literally said that being ugly and unhealthy is a good thing), but how she's trying to make you view fitness, strength, and discipline as inherently reactionary or fascist coded.
>>2914602Bro's not gonna pull any femboys looking like that. Luckily he'll have time in prison to get swole and learn the art of gay sex.
>>2914700they're not really wrong. the state is just another firm. this is a point one can throw at Austrians
>>2914700Yes, this is pretty basic Marxism actually. I'd only split hairs over 2 aspects of what the posters there said. There's a little bit of confusion over the objective mechanics of capitalism and what the bourgeoisie do - i.e. the bourgeoisie carry out the tyranny of capitalism, but they are beholden to capitalism rather than singlehandedly responsible for reproducing it, which falls on society as a whole, including the working class. Secondly, the distinction between socialism/DoTP and communism is not clearly drawn here, which could lead one to accept what Marx calls "crude communism" - the community as universal capitalist - to be the goal.
For further reading see:
Marx - 1844 Manuscripts - Private Property and Communism
Kautsky (1902) - Social Revolution
Lenin (1918) - State and Revolution - The Economic Basis of the Withering Away of the State
>>2914722>Yes, this is pretty basic Marxism actually. No it isn't. Marx doesn't use communism to refer to a "socialism with a mixed economy". I didn't even read the rest because that statement was so monumentally wrong it can only go downhill from there.
>>2914700I do wonder how Midwestern Marx fell into this cult because a lot of points he raises in his videos are pretty alright
>>2914725You've misread, he said
>socialism with markets is not a mixed economyIf you wanted to make an uncharitable reading here, you could say that's a justification for Dengist style revisionism. I took it to mean that markets are not the sole issue with capitalism or inherently capitalist, which is true
>>2914727I can't with these guys man.
>DSA are reformist libs! We're the only true revolutionary communists!<Btw markets and corporations will totally continue to exist under socialism guys, only libs want to get rid of themThey're arguably more reformist than DSA, they just posture as more radical.
>>2914728Taken in context with other statements its obvious that he's trying to portray mixed economies and social democracy not just as socialism, but as communism. It's blatantly revisionist.
>>2914729>more reformist than DSA, they just posture as more radical.Damn you just described +85% of the posters here
>>2914728>Dengist style revisionismDeng saved the PRC from revisionism
>>2914700it's a case of sophistry vs sophistry
yes, saying "corporations" instead of "capitalists" is radlib coded
but it is obvious that when dsa opposes corporations, they are opposing private enterprises, not the concept of a productive body
so to say that they oppose any productive body by arguing about the semantics of the word "corporation" is pointless and disingenuous
the part about republican rule of companies is actual revisionism; marx wrote multiple times about the incompatibility of such arrangements with the demands of modern productive technologies. the part about private companies being merely extensions of the capitalist state also goes against the marxist position. that is, unless you do the most generous reading possible and assume that he's talking about democratic control through the proletarian state, rather everything being a coop
but even if you (foolishly) take that generous interpretation, it is still sophistry; marxism is a very down-to-earth craft, which doesn't mean it is anti-intellectual, but whenever someone starts talking in platitudes and complete abstracts like these, your first assumption should be that they are being cryptic on purpose because their theory is weak
>>2912667their per capita consumption is through the roof and outpaces the USA. yo can't get 2nd hand shit there because they buy everything new. everyone has an electric car already. their consumer electronics market is absolutely on fire, fully a generation ahead of the west if not more. food is plentiful and cheap. workers are taking long leases on multiple homes easily.
this mentality that the chinese are poor is 30 years out of date. the 996 foxxconn tech worker stuff is a decade out of date. they have better jobs, better conditions, and relative to the cost of living are paid better than you.
china won, the west is fucked, wake the fuck up samurai.
>>2914729>>2914753The thing is, it was a response to a question about how communism would look like on a subreddit (r/asksocialists) that is not specificly for Americans, but belongs to the ACP.
These kinds of posts just seem like a long-winded obscurantist justification for showing up at socialist events with an American flag and a cowboy hat - especially the reference to Sir Edward Coke (lol) and the "democratic-republic".
It also seems like they tend to believe that everything is determined by the political superstructure, because corporations are an extension of the state anyway (weirdly right-libertarian thing to say), and we just need to apply our glorious all-American values of the Founding Fathers to our economy and democratize it (what this exactly means stays obtuse) and
revolutionarize the mode of production (what this exactly means stays obtuse). None of this is antithetical to imperialist monopoly capitalism btw.
>>2914798I guess it goes without saying that it was supposed to be appealing to chuds
which, funnily enough, ended up being way more harmful, embarrassing, and useless than anything a socialist has ever said to appeal to liberals
>>2914700>MarketsTo Marx, markets mediate commodity exchange through the private ownership of the means of production. In his writings, he clearly advocates for centralising all means of production in the state, and establishing a planned economy, with direct distribution, not trade:
<Centralisation of credit in the hands of the state, by means of a national bank with State capital and an exclusive monopoly […] Centralisation of the means of communication and transport in the hands of the State […] factories and instruments of production owned by the State; the bringing into cultivation of waste-lands, and the improvement of the soil generally in accordance with a common plan.https://www.marxists.org/archive/marx/works/1848/communist-manifesto/ch02.htm<The life-process of society, which is based on the process of material production, does not strip off its mystical veil until it is treated as production by freely associated men, and is consciously regulated by them in accordance with a settled plan. https://www.marxists.org/archive/marx/works/1867-c1/ch01.htm<Within the co-operative society based on common ownership of the means of production, the producers do not exchange their products […] in contrast to capitalist society, individual labor no longer exists in an indirect fashion but directly as a component part of total labor.https://www.marxists.org/archive/marx/works/1875/gotha/ch01.htmSo, like many others, this person projects themself onto Marx.
>CorporationA corporation is the formation of a body (e.g. incorporation):
https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/corporationThis person seems much more like a Syndicalist than a Marxist.
>>2914798I've said it before but I think that the ACP has a lot in common with the very early Italian fascists, who often tried to portray themselves as the "real socialists" and "true revolutionaries" in opposition to both the ruling class and Marxists. The only difference is that instead of representing their break from Marxism as the true revolutionary path, they're taking a revisionist route and diluting the meaning of Marxism into something non-communist. Their positions contain the same kind of appeals to petty bourgeois interests and sentiments.
>>2914729DSA are reformists because they believe they can reform capitalist society through electoralism and worse by reforming the democratic party lol. ACP, whatever can be said about them, are not reformist as they believe revolution is required in order to bring about said change in society. This is basic stuff
Whatever particular position you have on the longevity of markets under the dictatorship of the proletariat, doesn't factor into it that much
>>2914819In that case Lenin was criticizing a policy only to later learn it's useful once you've actually taken power. Here you have the ACP denouncing the DSA as "reformist" while openly saying that they have no intention of actually abolishing markets or corporations.
>>2914827>ACP, whatever can be said about them, are not reformist as they believe revolution is required in order to bring about said change in society.ACP is reformist because they don't believe in changing society but continuing under the current mode of production.
>>2914827The idea of markets under the DotP is a revision of Marx.
Lenin called it "State Capitalism".
>>2914728>ACP is reformist because they don't believe in changing society but continuing under the current mode of productionThat's not what reformism is though, nor do they believe that they are continuing the current mode of production. It basically just comes down to if you think China is socialist or not
>>2914833>The idea of markets under the DotP is a revision of MarxIt's not.
<Will it be possible for private property to be abolished at one stroke?<No, no more than existing forces of production can at one stroke be multiplied to the extent necessary for the creation of a communal society.
<In all probability, the proletarian revolution will transform existing society gradually and will be able to abolish private property only when the means of production are available in sufficient quantity.
>Lenin called it "State Capitalism".State capitalism made to serve the people is socialism, as per Lenin. Only trotskkkytes and ultroids have a problem with this
>>2914836>That's not what reformism is thoughMy mistake, they want to seize power in a revolution and then not do anything with it. So that creates the absurd situation where they're more radical than DSA in their methods but less radical in their goals.
>nor do they believe that they are continuing the current mode of productionThey may not believe it but they are.
>It basically just comes down to if you think China is socialist or notChina claims to be using markets as a stage in socialist construction moving towards communism. They don't claim to have achieved communism or any sort of end state. Meanwhile these mfs are literally claiming that Marx's concept of communism allowed for markets and private property.
>>2914836>It's not. It is in they way they are portraying it. Marx says that the DotP cannot abolish private property and markets immediately, but he also says that it must move inexorably towards their abolition and that socialism won't be achieved until they do. They are effectively arguing that the DotP doesn't need to eliminate them at all and simply needs to regulate and reform them. It's just social democracy.
>>2914842Well it’s a good thing then that communists aren’t interested in “achieving socialism” or other utopian fantasies but rather being the real movement
>>2914841>My mistake, they want to seize power in a revolution and then not do anything with itI don't think that's what they want to do
> So that creates the absurd situation where they're more radical than DSA in their methods but less radical in their goalsThe goal of the DSA isn't market abolition either though, it's to reform the democratic party to a more soc dem aligned position
>They may not believe it but they are.Not really, they want to "sublate" the current mode of production. To them that means establishing a dotp and managing the economy through that. If you want to consider that to be continuing the current mode of production that's fine, but then china and the ussr didn't do anything either
>China claims to be using markets as a stage in socialist construction moving towards communism. They don't claim to have achieved communism or any sort of end state. Meanwhile these mfs are literally claiming that Marx's concept of communism allowed for markets and private property.The question is whether you consider China to be socialist or not. If they are in the early stages of socialism then the existence of markets and private property is not antithetical to that stage, as they are included in it.
>Meanwhile these mfs are literally claiming that Marx's concept of communism allowed for markets and private property.Who are "these mfs"? Some guy on reddit? Do you know he's even a party member? Where is this outlined in the party program?
>It is in they way they are portraying it. Marx says that the DotP cannot abolish private property and markets immediately, but he also says that it must move inexorably towards their abolition and that socialism won't be achieved until they do.And that is what people believe they are doing no? Also please provide said Marx quote about when socialism will or will not arrive
>They are effectively arguing that the DotP doesn't need to eliminate them at all and simply needs to regulate and reform them. It's just social democracy.A dotp can by definition not just be a social democracy and markets and corporations (private property) cannot be eliminated at one stroke. As far as I understand the ACP believe that the establishment of a dotp through revolution will eventually lead to the abolition of private property, just like what China supposedly claims. This is more revolutionary than the reformist DSA, which does not believe in revolution therefor the "democratic" in democratic socialists of america
>DSA vs ACP
days without inter-dengist nothingburgers on leftypol = 0
>>2914888Lassalle won unfortunately
>>2914852>The goal of the DSA isn't market abolition either though, it's to reform the democratic party to a more soc dem aligned positionDepends on the caucus. The DSA as a whole has no line on that issue, but numerous caucuses (including those with significant representation at the highest levels) say openly that they want to eliminate capitalism.
>If you want to consider that to be continuing the current mode of production that's fine, but then china and the ussr didn't do anything eitherChina and the USSR did abolish the existing mode of production because they expropriated private property and replaced markets with a planned economy, which is what the ACP is explicitly saying they don't want to do.
>Who are "these mfs"? Some guy on reddit? Try Haz and Hickel, who openly say that communism is compatible with small business ownership and landlordism. Even the party program makes no mention of a planned economy or eliminating private property even in the long term. They essentially propose an NEP style program and leave it at that.
>Also please provide said Marx quote about when socialism will or will not arriveTechnically it's Engels but:
<Above all, it will have to take the control of industry and of all branches of production out of the hands of mutually competing individuals, and instead institute a system in which all these branches of production are operated by society as a whole – that is, for the common account, according to a common plan, and with the participation of all members of society.<It will, in other words, abolish competition and replace it with association…<In fact, the abolition of private property is, doubtless, the shortest and most significant way to characterize the revolution in the whole social order which has been made necessary by the development of industry – and for this reason it is rightly advanced by communists as their main demand.So in other words, while you can say that private property and markets can exist under a DotP, they are inherently incompatible with socialism. Seeing as the purpose of the DotP is to construct socialism, then it follows that they can only exist in a transitional phase before being eliminated.
>As far as I understand the ACP believe that the establishment of a dotp through revolution will eventually lead to the abolition of private propertyI've quite frankly never heard any of their prominent members claim this and it doesn't appear in their program. The phrases "communism" and "socialism" appear nowhere in their platform or declaration.
>>2914832not even the USSR abolished the firm or the market to be fair
>>2914889why is Lassalle memed as a proto-Dengist on here?
>>2914892>Depends on the caucus. The DSA as a whole has no line on that issue, but numerous caucuses (including those with significant representation at the highest levels) say openly that they want to eliminate capitalism.Then they shouldn't be part of a reformist organization
>China and the USSR did abolish the existing mode of production because they expropriated private property and replaced markets with a planned economy, which is what the ACP is explicitly saying they don't want to doDo they though? And did they though? As far as I understand they look to china, thus the private property and the markets and yadayada. If you don't have a problem with China on these fronts then I don't think you should be worried about it
>Try Haz and Hickel, who openly say that communism is compatible with small business ownership and landlordism. Even the party program makes no mention of a planned economy or eliminating private property even in the long term. They essentially propose an NEP style program and leave it at that. They're talking about making money for the party as I understand, plus again landlords and small businesses exist in China. The party program talks about immediate actions they think are possible, not what they want the far future to look like, some stage of production that not even china has arrived at yet. It does talk about abolishing intellectual property I think lol
>So in other words, while you can say that private property and markets can exist under a DotP, they are inherently incompatible with socialism. Seeing as the purpose of the DotP is to construct socialism, then it follows that they can only exist in a transitional phase before being eliminated. Sure but I don't think that's incomparable to what that redditor was saying. They're basically just talking about socialist transition and sublation and other sematic bullshit
>I've quite frankly never heard any of their prominent members claim this and it doesn't appear in their programThey claim to be a marxist leninist party no? Maybe not so explicitly but that is ostensibly what they are
>The phrases "communism" and "socialism" appear nowhere in their platform or declarationIt appears all over their propaganda/content and is all they talk about though. I mean the propaganda of the party itself is pretty dry, but they call themselves the communist party lmao. This just sound delusional/dishonest tbh
>>2914674>episode 88I snorted
but this guy is the embodiment of r/neoliberalism and is too embarrassed about that to just be honest.
>>2914674I grew up with old guys around me who were WW2 veterans. I think the current generation of young guy grew up without much WW2 history being taught to them as relevant and so comparisons to hitler make less political sense and are taken less seriously by them. whether this makes them more amenable to fascism has yet to be seen, but especially in the wake of Israel accusing everyone who criticizes them as antisemitic, I feel that we are really entering a post WW2 era where the cultural currency of hitler comparisons are going the way of the dinosaur.
>>2914766>their per capita consumption is through the roof and outpaces the USA. No it doesn't.
>everyone has an electric car already.No they don't. Most Chinese don't drive. China's state statistics bureau reported last year that there are 182 million privately-owned cars in China:
https://www.stats.gov.cn/english/PressRelease/202502/t20250228_1958822.htmlThat's not really a "problem" because public transport is way more extensive. Also more people ride bicycles, scooters, and e-bikes. Or you can take a cab. Also in terms of household goods, they don't consume as much as Americans because their living spaces are smaller on average. China can't consume the entirety of its own production. But countries today also don't live in self-contained bubbles. That's all I'm saying, there is a relationship between the Chinese economy and the rest of the world and there's a relationship between why Western economies look the way they do, and why the Chinese economy looks the way it does, because it's part of the same system.
>this mentality that the chinese are poor is 30 years out of date.Compared to 30 years ago, obviously. But it's still a developing country. Also it's a really big country.
>>2914903>Do they though? And did they though?Yes. In the USSR and China (prior to Deng's reforms) virtually all industry and commercial property was in the hands of the state. Private enterprise only existed in highly limited and completely marginalized forms. These were planned economies and a different mode of production from what came before or existed in the West.
>They're talking about making money for the party as I understandYeah they propose to make the party bourgeois by tying its revenue to bourgeois enterprise. Frankly that's even worse, since it gives the party a direct stake in capitalist relations of production and an incentive to maintain them.
>They're basically just talking about socialist transition and sublation and other sematic bullshitNo they aren't. Their exact words were that "Socialism with markets is not a mixed economy. Marx refers to such a social formation as communism". In other words, they're saying that Marx considered markets to be something that could exist not just as a temporary transitional tool under a DotP, but actual communism.
>It appears all over their propaganda/content and is all they talk about thoughWhere do they talk about the actual substance of their long term goals? Where do they ever indicate any intention to go beyond an NEP style state capitalism? Historically speaking, most communists have presented a short term program and articulated how this is in service of longer term goals of eliminating capitalist relations altogether. This was what the Communist Manifesto does for example.
>but they call themselves the communist party lmaoYeah and the Nazis called themselves socialist.
>>2914827>reforming the democratic partyI don't know much about american politics, but afaik that's because political parties work different in the american system. electoral law doesn't really allow you to register a party and have it be on the ballot on most states. if you want to participate you're forced to run under one of the two big parties. it's quite literally like a one-party state, but there are two. and by that I don't mean that they share policies, but that
by law you're for the most part not allowed to run as a third party
>>2914892>HickelYou mean jACKson hinkle.
Ja
ckson Hickel is a completely different person, LMAO.
>>2915005its easy to get them mixed up. cant one of them change their name?
>>2915005Yes, I was referring to noted assclown and lolcow Jackson Hinkle. Not respected Marxist economist Jason Hickel.
>>2914988>prior to Deng's reforms>These were planned economies and a different mode of production from what came before or existed in the West.I see, so you think Deng's reforms changed the mop?
>Yeah they propose to make the party bourgeois by tying its revenue to bourgeois enterpriseListen, Im gonna level with you. I just don't think this really matters. A small scale business or even, dios mio let me lay a crucifix, a landlord operation on the scale of a few individuals using it to fund their local party chapter, it just doesn't compare to the heights of the large scale production of the global economy and the capital the bourgeoisie.
>Frankly that's even worse, since it gives the party a direct stake in capitalist relations of production and an incentive to maintain them.Like what are you saying? Communist party members should never own businesses or rent out houses and use those proceeds to fund the party? It's not like we're talking about some slumlord operation lol. I really don't think this corrupts the party unless it's some explicit operation or foundational component
>No they aren't. Their exact words were that "Socialism with markets is not a mixed economy. Marx refers to such a social formation as communism". In other words, they're saying that Marx considered markets to be something that could exist not just as a temporary transitional tool under a DotP, but actual communism.I mean idk, maybe. If you consider socialism and communism to just be one thing then the lower stages of it are immutable from the higher stages of it. What is this "actual" communism? some ideal to implement? Doesn't seem very dialectical to me
>Where do they talk about the actual substance of their long term goals? Where do they ever indicate any intention to go beyond an NEP style state capitalism? Historically speaking, most communists have presented a short term program and articulated how this is in service of longer term goals of eliminating capitalist relations altogether. This was what the Communist Manifesto does for example.Yeah I mean, if you're a communist part that's a bit self evident isn't it? "the goal of the communist party is communism" Ok? Thanks for that info?
>Yeah and the Nazis called themselves socialistI think the nazijacketing is a bit much tbh, like I don't have much of a stake in it either way, but stuff like that puts me off. I don't think calling yourself the (x) communist party is comparable to how the fascists used the, at the time incredibly popular, label of socialist for vulgar populist reasons
>>2915002Im pretty sure it's lawfully allowed, it's just the system doesn't allow for it due to the winner takes all type of construction. There's no coalitions and shit, it's just whoever gets the most votes rules kind of thing. But I might be wrong idk
Regardless, that's no reason to join or align yourself with the most imperialist political party (reps or dems) on earth
>>2915038>I see, so you think Deng's reforms changed the mop?Yes, China has a capitalist economy. They are arguably engaged in a form of socialist construction, but I wouldn't consider their current society to have a socialist mode of production.
>Communist party members should never own businesses or rent out houses and use those proceeds to fund the party? If a handful of individual members do this of their own initiative then that's not a big deal. But making it part of your party policy and peddling revisionist ideological justifications for it? That's going to have far worse long term implications. It will have a similar effect to the labour aristocracy, where carving out a comfortable niche within capitalist society leads them to defend rather than overthrow it.
>If you consider socialism and communism to just be one thing then the lower stages of it are immutable from the higher stages of it. I don't, I stick with Lenin's terminology that identifies socialism with the lower stage and communism with the higher stage described by Marx. But regardless of semantics DotP isn't the same as socialism or communism. It's the means by which these things are constructed, and they are constructed by dismantling capitalist social relations and instituting new ones.
>What is this "actual" communism? some ideal to implement?It's not an ideal because we have actually seen it established, at least in its lower stage. However I think Marx's statement about communism being the real movement that abolishes the present state of things is horrifically abused. What "present state of things" was he referring to if not private property, markets, wage labour, and commodity production?
>Yeah I mean, if you're a communist part that's a bit self evident isn't it?You'd think so but
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Taiwan_Communist_Party>I think the nazijacketing is a bit much tbhMy point is just that their name is far less important than the substance of what they are saying. It's not just the Nazis though, there are plenty of other parties with "socialist" or even "communist" in the name that are effectively just social democrats. In fact, even the term "social democrat" used to refer to Marxists before the Russian Revolution. I don't think you can infer actual communist goals just from their name, especially when these are suspiciously absent from their actual statements and when the party is riddled with other right wing deviations.
>>2915040>There's no coalitions and shit, it's just whoever gets the most votes rules kind of thing.That's the main thing yes. Historically third parties have either been regional things or personalistic vehicles like Ross Perot's Reform Party in the 1990s. There can also be some success for third parties at the state level like the Vermont Progressive Party:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vermont_Progressive_Party
>Im pretty sure it's lawfully allowedIt's allowed but there are some legal obstacles to getting on the ballot, which they can be overcome if you collect enough signatures, although that's still a hurdle for small third parties. It doesn't help at any rate. In my state a party needs 80,000 signatures to get on the ballot in addition to some other things (holding a nominating convention, stuff like that), but they don't have to get the signatures again as long as one of their candidates gets at least 2% of the vote for a statewide office. But even that can be a challenge. Of course the Democrats and Republicans get on the ballot automatically because they are major parties.
The PSL got on the ballot in 19 states in 2024 but in reality they do this as a form of advertising so people see "Party for Socialism and Liberation" on the ballot when they vote.
>>2915044>Yes, China has a capitalist economy. They are arguably engaged in a form of socialist construction, but I wouldn't consider their current society to have a socialist mode of productionSo it was socialist for 30 years and then stopped? I would consider socialist construction to be socialism, it's splitting hairs tbh
>If a handful of individual members do this of their own initiative then that's not a big deal. But making it part of your party policy and peddling revisionist ideological justifications for it? That's going to have far worse long term implications. It will have a similar effect to the labour aristocracy, where carving out a comfortable niche within capitalist society leads them to defend rather than overthrow it. Ok but that's what it was/is though and not even, I haven't heard of any actual members being landlords or operating under some kind of policy induced initiative to be mandated to have private business and their priority. I mean idk what their internal policy looks like ofc
>I don't, I stick with Lenin's terminology that identifies socialism with the lower stage and communism with the higher stage described by Marx. But regardless of semantics DotP isn't the same as socialism or communism. It's the means by which these things are constructed, and they are constructed by dismantling capitalist social relations and instituting new onesI think you're too rigid/idealist in your preconceptions of these things. They're not such distinctly different things, they are all interconnected components of each other, flowing in and out of each other. I don't think Lenin would disagree with that
>It's not an ideal because we have actually seen it established, at least in its lower stage. However I think Marx's statement about communism being the real movement that abolishes the present state of things is horrifically abused. What "present state of things" was he referring to if not private property, markets, wage labour, and commodity production?Early china and ussr did have private property, markets, wage labor and commodity production to various extents though, because those things can't just be abolished at the press of a button. They were present in more or lesser extends depending on the position of the party, which manages the dotp
>TWPOk, but the founder of the party isn't exactly saying he's never read marx is he? Various higher ranked members openly state that's what it's all about
>I don't think you can infer actual communist goals just from their name, especially when these are suspiciously absent from their actual statements and when the party is riddled with other right wing deviations.That's fine enough, but I just think it's a bit of a reach in this case tbh. Not that I hold the ACP in particularly high regard, I do consider them preferable to a dem whipped organization like the DSA and I consider your concerns to be overblown in comparison to that
>>2915047>The PSL got on the ballot in 19 states in 2024 but in reality they do this as a form of advertising so people see "Party for Socialism and Liberation" on the ballot when they voteIf that's the extent to which electoralism can benefit the party that's fine, they should advertise themselves that way if they are able. It's not like parliaments automatically lead to some better electoralist strategy for the party
>>2915052im pretty sure the landlords thing was meant to be chapter owned housing that they could charge rent for amongst other options
>>2914977GDP is a piss poor metric. the chinese are living off the fat of the land in a way that defies quantification by these metrics. everyone that has a car has a late model electric. they eat out multiple times a week. you're delulu if you think bullet training around the map and using the metro isn't the shit wealthy people in wealthy nations do.
>>2910430This guy is an israeli spy who infiltrated the alt right in 2016 to make them less "antisemitic" i would take anything he says with a grain of salt
>>2915059I mean I'm pretty sure it was just haz offhandedly responding to some chatter while pinballing ideas for party funds, at least that's all I've ever seen posted here of this landlord idea
>>2915068the thing as well is that afaik cpusa still rents out property as landlords themselves but no one even gives them shit for it
>>2915040>lawfully allowedin some states, in some others they ask for ridiculous amounts of signatures (like 20% of the voting base)
that's also why americans are supposed to disclose "party" affiliation when they register as voters: party primaries are run by the state, the two parties are codified into the electoral process. anyone can register as a democrat and vote in their primaries, and anyone can run in the democratic primaries. it's not like political parties in normal countries. I looked this up a long time ago because as a non-american, the party-within-a-party thing that dsa does with the democratic party caught my attention
a weird consequence of this system is that, if dsa ran as an actual electoral party, everyone would be allowed to vote in dsa primaries, they would lose the right to vet their own membership and candidates
>>2914988>In the USSR and China (prior to Deng's reforms) virtually all industry and commercial property was in the hands of the state. Private enterprise only existed in highly limited and completely marginalized forms. Isn't it funny how a bunch of low tier firm managers overthrew the USSR, but china has all their billionaors and industrialisys by the balls.
Goes to show that political organization > economics
>>2915068Has any of this gone anywhere? I'm actually not opposed in theory to socialist parties owning property and making money from it. No "principle" involved here. But this is also very expensive and takes a lot of time and effort. My sense is that these guys just want to stream and make money so they don't have to get "real" job because that's awful. As much as they glorify that kind of work, it sucks and they don't want to do that.
>>2915073Yeah and their office is in a building they own and they rent out parts of it.
>>2915066Mike Benz is actually the ZOG guy who infiltrated the alt-right. I feel like Livia whenever I see his name come up saying something.
>>2915192Right it varies by states. Because I'm in Texas which has no party affiliation in voter registration but others do. I agree that they're not really political parties like in other countries. Arguably the DSA functions more like a political party than the Democrats or Republicans do.
>>2915192I should clarify about no party registration here in my state, you don't register as a Democrat or a Republican. You can vote in either primary. But you can't vote in the other party's runoff if you voted in the first round (when that happens). But in other states, they can have systems where you register as a Democrat or Republican, and this can get weird when you have a bunch of people switch sides because they want to vote for Trump or whoever in the primary but they're registered as Democrats.
On this business thing, there was apparently some tax disclosure about how the ACP makes money. This was interesting because they're not a political party in the U.S. legally speaking, it's some other designation (that I can't remember) which also makes their revenue relatively accessible for people who want to go looking. And most of their money comes from selling their magazine called "Red America," and most of that money goes to paying a salary for one of their members named Kyle Pettis.
That is a small business. But it's pretty small. The main thing is what are these people actually doing to pool their resources into a business that's not pulling directly from their own members? Like running a restaurant for the general public but there's a room you can rent privately and the party also has meetings in there. You can do that. The CPUSA used to do stuff like that in the 1930s. But they're not doing that.
>>2915202
>Has any of this gone anywhere?Not as far as I've seen, pretty sure it was just that one clip of Haz saying "yeah why not", but like most things with this party hysterical people don't care.
I don't even hold them to be particularly high regard, I prefer PSL, but the hysteria around them is so weird man. I mean they've got an odd media strategy sure, but it's just so overblown the way people turn it in into this big nazi fascist level threat because they don't like it. It's honestly not that serious
>I'm actually not opposed in theory to socialist parties owning property and making money from it. No "principle" involved here. But this is also very expensive and takes a lot of time and effort. My sense is that these guys just want to stream and make money so they don't have to get "real" job because that's awful. As much as they glorify that kind of work, it sucks and they don't want to do that.Sure, who wants a real job, but if their main goal had been to make money from streaming then founding this party and investing all these resources into it was a strange move. They could have just kept going around the content carrousels, going on more podcasts, signing up with agencies, etc. From that perspective founding a party is an insane waste of time and resources
I guess you can argue they're trying to build a cult or whatever, but again if you already have an audience that sustains you, there's probably easier and quicker ways to make more money
>>2915265>it's just so overblown the way people turn it in into this big nazi fascist level threat because they don't like it … It's honestly not that seriousI agree with you that it's not that serious. But I don't know how to describe it, there is something about them which is structurally similar to fascist organizations. But that also says something about those groups too, which are not very impressive.
I don't mean they are ideologically similar like espousing race hatred, which the ACP does not believe in, but in terms of certain patterns of thinking and activity or how they think about politics. As a subsection of that, they seem to think (at some level) that the revolutionary subject are alt-right guys and the main problem is that they're alt-righters instead of Marxist-Leninists. But if you talk to people who were members of these far-right groups, they will say things like how the members are a weird syncretic bunch of people who really have no clue what they're doing and don't have a political theory, but the whole thing is sustained at a low level by a taboo on talking about the fact that they have no idea what they're doing.
You mentioned them forming a party being a strange move if they simply were out to grift. But this recalls a very obscure organization called the National Justice Party, which is a neo-Nazi party formed by a group of podcasters, which didn't really make any sense, but they did it anyways. I'm not sure this group exists currently, and there were a lot of alt-righters who didn't like them because some of the leaders were dabbling in nazbol stuff. But were they grifters? Maybe I'm wrong and they don't want to just grift, because why form a party do that? Or maybe I'm right and they do want to grift and they formed a party anyways, for some reason.
I'm just workshopping this out right now. What I think is very common is trend-hopping style to these guys. Like this thing about Marxism = Islam? But this isn't just Haz. Sneako is now Malcolm X praying on a blackjack table. Milo is a Muslim now. These are all the same kinds of people who are doing the same thing at the same time. Maybe they've figured out that there's a market for scamming Muslims now so that's what they're doing. I hear about them because it gets interjected into my feed, and at one point I was more concerned that the ACP's communist schtick would mess something up, but now I don't give a fuck about any of these people or what happens to them. But it's somewhat interesting, like watching a car crash.
>>2915292I would say that's not a structural similarity but a formal, aesthetic similarity. More of a result of both these groups of people mainly dispersing their rhetoric though social media than some kind of built in structural formation of their organizations.
Patterns of thinking and activity are vague wordslop, do you mean the sexism/homophobia displayed by the top brass? I don't think they're necessarily thinking that the rev subject are alt righters, but rather that a large portion of the rev subs in america are being brought away into the false consciousness of this "alt-right", brofluencer bullshit sphere. Which idk, that does seem like an issue that I don't see many other orgs tackle or even try to address. Maybe it's wasted energy, but it's not like other orgs are spending their energy well elsewhere. In terms of party activity I don't really see how it's similar to rightists/fascists, it's all like pamphleting and community garden type shit from the looks of their party propaganda vids
Sure people make all kinds of obscure clubs and parties, neonazis do it, everyone is doing it. Im just saying if they really wanted to grift for that streamer money, it seems like they're wasting a lot of time and effort with the party larp thing.
The trend hopping thing is imo again mostly because these guys are all online and for the most part what they talk about follows the whims of the algo. Though Haz had been talking about the communist islam thing years ago already I think
I also find these phenomena interesting, but I don't care that much for these personalities either. Hinkle especially looks and sounds retarded to me, but I think Haz is pretty funny for the most part. Hinkle is far more popular with the normies though for some reason, maybe just cuz he's a typical looking handsome white guy idk
>>2915308>Le trotsky gud le stalin badImagine still being on this retarded "betrayal" line almost a 100 years post icepick. Sad stuff
Also it's always trotskyists bringing up Stalin out of nowhere, never the other way around. Why is that?
>>2915308>>2915321Actually, both stalin and trotsky were cool, what heappend between them was a tragedy, the ussr should have posthumesly reconziled them, have monuments, stamps and other such of them both
>>2915321>Also it's always trotskyists bringing up Stalin out of nowhere, never the other way around. Lmao
>>2915322That might have been the move, though trotsky was annoying and a factionalist, he did some pretty cool stuff here and there. The armored train and leather jacket went hard
>>2915323Laugh all you want, it's the truth
>>2915327>Laugh all you want, it's the truthACP politburo members are on record accusing the clintons, Rockfellers and Klaus Shwab of being trostkyites, Trotsky is to some MLs what jews are to hitlerites
>>2915321kill yourself beria
>>2915052>Not that I hold the ACP in particularly high regard, I do consider them preferable to a dem whipped organization like the DSA and I consider your concerns to be overblown in comparison to thatTbh I think they have similar problems but for different reasons. Both of them have *some* positive aspects and I think the potential to become something really worthwhile. But both of them need to undergo substantial changes before that can happen. In the case of the DSA they obviously need to unhitch themselves from the Dems and become an actual party, and one that is not solely committed to electoralism. The ACP on the other hand needs to boot their lolcow eceleb leaders and stop with all these weird and unnecessary right-deviations, trying to chase MAGA clout, etc.
>>2915322the only way one could consider stalin "cool" is if you are a liberal because thats the only type of party member that wasnt purged or executed during his goverment, if you identify as a communist and you think that guy is cool then you are even more retarded than cattle because even cows recognize when they are being lead to the slaughterhouse
>>2915345You want things to be what they are not. The DSA can't simply unhitch themselves and become a party, its function as an organization is to be lackeys for the dems. As for the ACP, I generally have my problems with their leadership, but those problems are really inconsequential at the end of the day compared to their independence as a party. I think ditching the leadership at this stage would be pretty much suicidal for them, they're basically the only reason anyone talks about them. The internet drama. I agree that trying to tail maga was probably their worst move as a party, but even that I feel like it's blown out of proportion. What was this magacommunism? Just some bullshit Haz and Hinkle would talk/tweet about from time to time, it's not really consequential either. Though it did bring them a lot of attention so what do I know
I remember way back the main issue most people had was with that they were "patsocs", yknow waving the american flag n stuff. Now I find this to be quite distasteful, but in the end its a matter of strategy, of reach, if they're trying something different then that's good because the same old shit hasn't been working, but people took it like they're literal nazis or something. To me that seems ridiculous
>>2915192yeah this is all different depending on how the state's primary. Like the "major" 3rd parties (Libertarian and Green usually get 0.5-2% in the popular vote) often aren't even on enough states ballots to win the presidency even if they won every single state where they ARE on the ballot. So 3rd party votes are a true protest vote; it cannot help your candidate win at all no matter what. A frequent argument 3rd partyists will deploy every year is urging people to vote for them to hit certain popular vote thresholds that are set into law that will make the next presidential run easier like getting some guaranteed funding or a place at the presidential debate or automatic ballot access in 4 years.
Hasan Piker derangement syndrome is funny as fuck
>>2915319>I would say that's not a structural similarity but a formal, aesthetic similarity … In terms of party activity I don't really see how it's similar to rightists/fascists, it's all like pamphleting and community garden type shit from the looks of their party propaganda vidsIt's a certain subjectivity or way of thinking about relationships. I'm reminded of groups like Patriot Front (and also earlier iterations, including the National Front in the U.K. in the 1970s) that would do a lot of stuff like this. Like the picking up trash in the neighborhood or charity work. The natural reply to this is what's wrong with that, that's good, or at any rate it's not a concern. But they want to look like good citizens. They also have a paternalistic attitude towards the population. I don't think that was really the goal behind the Black Panther Party when they did things that look kind of similar, they would try to get things going in their community in a way that ordinary people themselves would pick up, because their political subject was the organized population in black neighborhoods, to try to develop the population's capacity to do things themselves.
If you look at a communist newspaper like Fight Back News, you see it. The organization is the FRSO but they don't usually say "the FRSO did this" or "the FRSO did that," it's news about "people" doing something (which they're involved in). If they have a demonstration they don't say the FRSO went out and did that, but "St. Louis stands up / marches / speaks out."
There are aesthetic similarities as well of course. Like wearing hats with the logo on the forehead. But a group of guys like this show up somewhere and pick up garbage, take pictures of themselves, then post it on social media. The political subject is them at the end of the day while others are invited to watch and if you're sympathetic to it get some kind of satisfaction from the aesthetic or the spectacle. There's also a Fuhrer / supreme commander who leads them.
>>2915348>I think ditching the leadership at this stage would be pretty much suicidal for them, they're basically the only reason anyone talks about them. Which also tells you something!
>>2912643>I watched Azov Something's new video through BE. Jesus Christ, worse than I thought. This dude has completely lost his mindYou've realized that only now? Lol
Adam Something was never sane in the first place
>>2915348>its function as an organization is to be lackeys for the demsIf that were true the Dem leadership wouldn't be doing everything they could to get rid of them. As per what you were saying earlier about ACP and not seeing themselves as reformist, it's clear that the DSA sees the Democratic leadership as enemies, while the Democratic leadership sees them as an insurgent wing of the party that needs to be contained. I think a purge and split is inevitable at this point, either by DSA members realizing that working within the Dems is a dead end and leaving, or by the DNC booting the DSA from the party.
>Just some bullshit Haz and Hinkle would talk/tweet about from time to time,Seems like 90% of the party's existence is as some bullshut that those guys would talk or tweet about.
>>2915606You know im curious what the like and dislike ratio in adams recent video is considering the comment section has several negative comments, more than usual for these kinds of ”content creators” (god i hate that word)
>>2915606Damn that unshaved libvegan pussy at Heidelberg University during Erasmus must have been amazing for Adam Something to turn into a straight-up chud to a fanatist anti-communist liberal.
>>2915609>If that were true the Dem leadership wouldn't be doing everything they could to get rid of them. As per what you were saying earlier about ACP and not seeing themselves as reformist, it's clear that the DSA sees the Democratic leadership as enemies, while the Democratic leadership sees them as an insurgent wing of the party that needs to be contained. I think a purge and split is inevitable at this point, either by DSA members realizing that working within the Dems is a dead end and leaving, or by the DNC booting the DSA from the party.It's not the democrat "leadership" that's the problem, it's the whole apparatus of the party. I think your sketch of this intense enemy relationship is laughable, they're basically friendly and cordial with each other outside of some rhetoric. There might be some splits here and there, but then you're basically just advocating for the org to dissolve itself lol. What's the point of any of it other than waste time and dickride for the democrats?
>Seems like 90% of the party's existence is as some bullshut that those guys would talk or tweet about.duhdoi
>>2915609>If that were true the Dem leadership wouldn't be doing everything they could to get rid of them. As per what you were saying earlier about ACP and not seeing themselves as reformist, it's clear that the DSA sees the Democratic leadership as enemies, while the Democratic leadership sees them as an insurgent wing of the party that needs to be contained. I think a purge and split is inevitable at this point, either by DSA members realizing that working within the Dems is a dead end and leaving, or by the DNC booting the DSA from the party.I agree somewhat. It's hard for me to envision the DSA or its elements forming a new party to actually challenge the democrats, even though that is what needs to happen.
>>2915615>they're basically friendly and cordial with each other outside of some rhetoricThe DNC will literally back third parties/independents over their own nominees if those nominees have DSA affiliations. It's why the New York Democratic establishment backed Cuomo over Mamdani. If the leadership really saw the DSA as beneficial then why would they pretend to denounce them? They would just treat them as another component of the big tent.
>What's the point of any of it other than waste time and dickride for the democrats? Well their hope is to essentially do a bottom up coup of the party, which is not unlike what the Tea Party did to the Republicans, culminating in MAGA. I think this is deeply flawed because the DNC is obviously aware of this and has the tools and will to stop them.
>>2915658Who is this king?
>>2915707>>2915704The right has never lost this hard.
>>2915704Why is he like this?
>>2915684Gabe. He's done videos on reading Marx and Lenin recently. Breaks it down quite well.
fdpd
>>2915704>>2915712>>2915547>Life's all bread and circuses or looking forward to that unless you're sick in the head.<Only crazies want powerMoney? Power? Mental disorder?
>>2915704What if you have your revolution and then the leader turns out to have been this all along? What does the theory and praxis say then?
>>2915717>>2915690I can understand where the assumption of superhero comics, with their focus on empowered demigods, could almost be read as Fascist, especially given their emphasis on literal supermen. but superheroes are generally individualistic and liberal, the good they do comes from a personal desire to help others. They also humble themselves by adopting meek, mild-mannered identities.
I can understand where the assumption of superhero comics, with their focus on empowered demigods, could almost be read as Fascist, especially given their emphasis on literal supermen. but superheroes are generally individualistic and liberal, the good they do comes from a personal desire to help others. They also humble themselves by adopting meek, mild-mannered identities.
>>2915717I've seen some good analyses of that one. It was specifically created as propaganda for the Volksturm, since the entire concept was based on the Landsturm of the Napoleonic Wars.
>>2915779Obviously just a run of the mill 2010s /pol/tard
>>2915780>>2915783I am aware of that. It’s obviously mocking conservatives, but it’s not doing so from a libertarian position. It’s obviously far-right, yet also socialist and environmentalist, which wasn’t a position commonly seen in the 2010s.
>>2915662They probably don't like the entryism. That doesn't mean entryism is a valid strategy towards socialism
>>2915704>Ali is Stalin Wrong Ali is Trotsky and Abu-Bakr is Stalin
Sunni=ML
Shia=Trots
>>2915806based and ryepilled
MAUPIN'S CHANNEL GOT SHUT DOWN
MAUPIN'S CHANNEL GOT SHUT DOWN
MAUPIN'S CHANNEL GOT SHUT DOWN
MAUPIN'S CHANNEL GOT SHUT DOWN
MAUPIN'S CHANNEL GOT SHUT DOWN
MAUPIN'S CHANNEL GOT SHUT DOWN
https://www.youtube.com/@CalebMaupinTV/videosMAUPIN'S CHANNEL GOT SHUT DOWN
Holy shit motherfucker why???
>>2915811Ai detection software probably with how inane his content is
>>2915813Best guess is, it has to do with Maupin being so open about supporting the Houthis. That's what got his channel demonetized over a year ago.
>>2915811spanked by google
>>2915806Fucking americans
>>2915811Not a big loss for music.
>>2915811He'll claim either Israel or Ukraine was behind it.
>>2915835? Why? To what end?
I despise this 'I did irreverent thing and i'm such a narcissist i think you need to know about it' genre of youtube.
>>2915806>The same PMC retards worried about AI taking their jobs are also spending their savings on special breadlmao.
>>2915854You can't appreciate master craftsmanship?
>>2915857>Believing that an instagram hoe paid to advertise for an expensive bakery represents "the PMC"How did you fall for a marketing campaign? No, seriously, as a leftist, how the fuck did you get ragebaited by an advertisement?
>>2915920Dasha is a notorious whore.
>>2915806This is like 4€ at my local bakery. Wtf is wrong with Americans.
>>2915929It's not "Americans" in general, but yuppy New Yorkers
>>2915930What kind of income bracket do you need to be in to see a sign that says 60 dollars for a loaf of bread and not burst out in hysterical laughter? I knew New York gentrifiers had it well but 60 dollars???
>>2916198Evil communist dictator Xi Jinping killed everyone in China. And India too. And Pakistan and Bangladesh and Vietnam and Iran and Thailand, Mongol like devastation across Asia
>>2916198thanos snap, you didn't see it?
>>2915936if you can only buy $60 bread then i can see why someone would need 138,570 as a single person
nyc is fucked up man.
>>2915823Piero Scaruffi is mostly known for his music reviews but he actually has an impressive career in STEM, has taught classes at UC Berkeley and worked in several Silicon Valley companies.
My opps are many
My twizzies are none…
>>2916250such a banger trailer i swear
>>2916208bookshelves are Malthusian degrowthers
>>2915930Idk man, I went to the states once, and food was expensive as fuck. It wasn't even good, really shit food, even the British and dutch have better cooking then the yanks.
>>2915806you can say it is ragebait, but the store nonetheless exists
one thing I don't understand is that the video says that they make them in austria? so that's old bread?
is it socially acceptable to sell old bread in the first world? I always thought it was scummy to sell bread that wasn't made in the last 12 hours
>>2916601I mean what do you expect, it's a business.
>>2915704>Anti-LGBT masculinist traditionalist anti-American anti-Zionist ChristoIslamo Stalinism with Dengist-Heideggerian-Duginist characteristicsGee I wonder if there's a target audience for this outside of xitter
>>2915806I pay like 3-4 bucks at most here in germany for this and it's not even hard to make yourself lol
>>2916656>Gee I wonder if there's a target audience for this outside of xitterFell for it award. I can't wait for the comet to RIP THIS SHIT THE FUCK UP! ANITA MAX WYNN!! FUUUUCK!!
>>2915920>Watch some literally who react to two other literally whosthe internet was a mistake it's time to nuke all ISPs and start over.
>>2916664You could order an AI to behave like a cancerous growth and convert every piece of data in every single drive connected to the Interent into cat pictures.
>>2916676I just want AI to rape everyone. Rape is a holy verb of infinite transcendent echo.
>>2916639I assume she means the store is from Austria
We have to raise the age of consent to 25+. If under 18s are not getting exposed to things that age them through media then the next generations are not mature enough to be adults by 18 anymore.
>>2916697we should raise the age of consent by one year every year
>>2916697real adulthood begins at 40, anyone below that is a literal child with no accountability
>>2916703>>2916707Age is just experience though
>>2916656I don't think there is an audience even in twitter. stop visiting this site and you will never hear about haz ever again
>>2916962
What's geese magazine?
>>2916976The plural of goose magazine.
>jucheschizo is mad that leftypol got covered in an online magazine instead of them
What happened to taking this site offline with your epic Russian hacker friends?
>>2916980atp a MattPatt vs Paul Brothers presidential election is becoming more and more real.
>>2916962
>Leftypol alienates women
Does it?
>>2917093
>Edward Dutton's
Sounds like the guy has a perpetual lack of self-awareness. What happens when he 'gets' it?
>>2917047>MattPattYou're giving the left too much credit.
>>2916976Socialist magazine focusing on a critical review of american socialism and strategy
>DSA mag is named after a shitty “indie” trust fund CIA brooklyn hipster band
If I tried writing this as satire it would be hack
>>2917122>socialist candidatewhy can't socdems stop larping as socialists?
Why was >>2916962 geese deleted? huh? And Dutton too >>2917093 ? WTF?
>materialism
Is it the left that's entirely materialistic or just Marxism only? Wouldn't leftist materialism be a little circular to be honest?
>>2917348I moved Dutton to leftybritpol to make it more topical:
>>2917112 >>2917394>thoughts?Ugly, fat lesbian.
I am a man, after all.
>>2917394Natural end to liberal feminism
>>2917394>STOP HAVING SONSI don't disagree with her on that
>>>/siberia/821926If you're not planning on raising them into functioning adults, don't actually have the sons in the first place. Most of life is post-childhood and adult. Imagine leaving adults alone with zero economic opportunities or moral guidance and idle thumbs. They had no chance.
>>2917409>Natural end to liberalmisandrist feminismCorrected for you. Women's rights were long overdue.
>>2917418The USSR gave women rights without a Feminist movement.
>>2917422>The USSR gave women rights without a Feminist movement.I'll bite. How representative is the USSR to anything? What's accountable here?
I give up.
>>2917422*loud wrong buzzer*
there was a massive feminist movement in the ussr
there wasn't a conflict because the government just said
<yesif you want a parallel in bourgeois governments, think about how most industries have giant lobbying networks but you probably have never thought of those as political movement because for the most part the government quietly acquiesces to their demands and you never get the spectacle of liberal politics
>>2917445>Women are a giant lobbying networkWhoah, that's kinda big.
>>2917445>there was a massive feminist movement in the ussrCan you please present evidence of this?
>>2917422>USSRBit of a derailment from feminism
>>2917445"feminism" is usually understood to be bourgeois feminism in Marxism
What's the /ISG/ OFFICAL opinion on the Youtuber "President Sunday"?
>>2917521Is there a "proletarian" feminism?
>>2917552The better question to be asking is if there is a communist feminism
>>2917555Well, it depends on how we define feminism.
Feminism as far as I see it, places the sex war as primary to any class war; while in Marx and Engels, the sex war is secondary to class war. The aim of Communism thus is to end the class war, and so this will also end the sex war. Feminism on the other hand sees that if people are fundamentally opposed on the basis of sex, then the sex war can only end by the extermination of one race, meaning the extermination of humanity itself. So, I would say they're incompatible, but I may be wrong. Here, I would thusly separate women's equality with women's "supremacy". Is matriarchy not as oppressive as patriarchy?
>>2917394Sons MUST be loyal to their mothers FOREVER or else they are MISOGYNIST
>>2917568they are inherently misogynist no matter what. just kill em all.
>>2917571I've been wondering when Nasty Enchilada would weigh in on the shitbull debate.
>>2917582nasty enchilada haha
>>2917552it's called Marxist feminism. as
>>2917560 points out, you either put class first or you don't. you're either a Marxist first or you're not
>>2917571finally InferiorBerliner weighs in on the PQ
>>2917571if you dont like mr worldwide, youre racist. DALE!!!
>>2917523he's been popping here and there in my feed and he's takes are pretty milquetoast, but his voice is total fucking velvet ngl, slightly jealous.
>>2917394she had a whole book admitting this
>>2917418Rights are a bourgoise concept.
I agree the female sex was still hyper exploited then as they are now.
Liberals with their idealist Lockian view of natural rights will always lead to wild contradictions. Even Rawlsian liberalism is ripe with contradictions.
The solution to the female sex's liberation is socialism not begging to be "given" the same "rights" as men.
>>2917431Russian feminists end goal was the destruction of men
(USER WAS BANNED FOR THIS POST) >>2917571White chick's fuck dogs.
White people now drag dogs everywhere.
I like dogs but they dont need to be at the brewery.
Being anti dog is to be anti west.
Critical support for dog haters.
What if the women were the bigger and the hornier sex? Would gynarchy be better instead?
>>>/siberia/825404>>2917769>Sexless percentage?
>>2917774percentage of the cohort who had no opposite sex partner within the last year by year.
>>2917780>percentage of the cohort who had no opposite sex partner within the last year by year.Looks like the men had more trouble finding a partner after covid than the women did
>>2917780>Sexless percentage disparity in 2022-23Where did the extra men come from?
In summer topless men are everywhere where I live tf
>>2917800disgusting moids
>>2917394literally true and they will cancel you for bringing this up
>>2917804Notably they dont say anything about pants, so you can walk in with your dick swinging out but as long as you've got a shirt and shoes your gucci
The worst thing you can do is be candid, sincere and open online, they will destroy you for it. They will complain about the panopticon but be eager to enforce it.
>>2917783they also had more trouble before
>>2917697>>2917699That's just Russian feminists. Not other kinds of feminists. It's like that scene in Austin Powers where Scott Evil says he thinks his Dr. Evil is trying to kill him and the group family counselor says that's not right, the people in the group aren't actually trying to kill each other, they only say they want to do that some times because they're frustrated, and Dr. Evil says "no the boy is right I am actually trying to kill him but he's quite wily like the old man."
>>2917813Houdini you're a fan of Andrew Tate tier manosphere bullshit
>>2917864
>>2917872
how much money did you donate to haz i wanna know out of curiosity
>>2917864
> our
Bitch you're one dude
>>2917571This is anti-Semitic. My kids being mauled to death by big dog was promised to breadtubers 3,000 years ago
>wake up
>check /leftypol/
I see, real schizo hours again
>>2918003
Could you please go back to X - The Everything App xir
>>2918059
How so? Lmao. I don't think it is particularly relevant anymore despite Trump Term 2. I just can't imagine "chan culture" IRL.
>Insert these are good memes.
If you "chan culture" IRL you are asking to be got by anyone lol.
>>2918042We have a containment thread for schizos, USAPOL, but jannies are not awake and online until afternoon GMT, usually, unfortunately.
>>2918060>2026still the only thing /pol/ has is le frog.
Yes 4/pol/ and lefty/pol/ are dead boards, but where isn't dead?
>>2918064
Why not just make your own site?
>our comrade's infrastructure.
Don't imply Autistici/Inventati are your comrades, Juchecultschizo, we both know that is not true.
>>2918073
>The exact circle I stand in,
<t. some meth head reactionary yankee whos wrecked his brain so hard he can't even fake it to /leftypol/ of all places.
Come on.
Who wants to be Jucheschizo is one of those 30 year olds who screeches about sex scenes in HBO shows
>>2918079
>provide evidence for your claim
<REEEEEE REEEEE YOU ARE FEDS REEEEE
yeah bro you’re totally being honest
>>2918070One of my relatives took a vote in class for the national anthem and they voted for America The Beautiful. I agree with this decision.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/America_the_BeautifulO beautiful for spacious skies,
For amber waves of grain,
For purple mountain majesties
Above the fruited plain!
America! America!
God shed His grace on thee
And crown thy good with brotherhood
From sea to shining sea!
O beautiful for pilgrim feet,
Whose stern, impassioned stress
A thoroughfare for freedom beat
Across the wilderness!
America! America!
God mend thine every flaw,
Confirm thy soul in self-control,
Thy liberty in law!
O beautiful for heroes proved
In liberating strife,
Who more than self their country loved
And mercy more than life!
America! America!
May God thy gold refine,
Till all success be nobleness,
And every gain divine!
O beautiful for patriot dream
That sees beyond the years
Thine alabaster cities gleam
Undimmed by human tears!
America! America!
God shed His grace on thee
And crown thy good with brotherhood
From sea to shining sea!
>>2918083
>go into a chatroom
>start a fight over lolicon anime
>somehow this is proof of the site being run by a Zionist child trafficking ring
>>2918087
Motherfucker when? You’ve been bragging that you’re gonna take down the site for months over screenshots of one guy being dumb in a chatroom.
>>2918096
The message of America The Beautiful is better than The Star Spangled Banner which is just a war song.
>O beautiful for glory-tale
>Of liberating strife,
>When valiantly for man's avail
>Men lavished precious life.
>America! America!
>May God thy gold refine
>Till all success be nobleness,
>And every gain divine.
<O beautiful for heroes proved
<In liberating strife,
<Who more than self their country loved
<And mercy more than life!
<America! America!
<May God thy gold refine,
<Till all success be nobleness,
<And every gain divine!
I like both versions. I think it's a 'beautiful' song and speaks to the ideals of America.
>>2918098
>im gonna take the site down
<okay do it
>uhhh ACTUALLY im epic trolling to make the whole world know my schizo bullshit is real
>>2918102
>I was doing le bit
Ok LARPer
>>2918106
>spamming gore and scat, making Zionist pedo ring accusations over screenshots of a random chatroom argument involving morons, and generally act like a pretentious LARPer
Gee I wonder if people find that irritating
>>2918108
Hey, buddy, pal. Friend.
Grow the fuck up and stop acting like posting is praxis?
>>2915845watch the appearance he made on chill goblin live. fucking hilarious to hear this dipshit arguing with another dipshit like he's 12.
>>2918325I mean who cares? They've been trash since 343 Games anyways.
>>2918327>who cares?Halo fans.
>>2915704he is right tho, and you will see with time
>>2917560"Woman" is a class
>>2918548Nations as classes. Welcome back ᴉuᴉlossnW
>>2918327We’re about to reach levels of Halo slop like never before
>>2918548>nations are a le class >black people aren't oppressed because they get to join the department of arab bombing like everyone else rope NOW
>>2918548Badempanada is just another influencer pseud who says shit for attention. He’s no better than Destiny or Asmongold or Contrapoints or a thousand other grifters. Anyone who gets their opinion from YouTubers needs to grow up
>>2918616on this, he's right though
>>2918627not really. that has no bearing on the point he made about USians majority investment, participation, and/or indifference to the imposition of the imperialism that maintains their
relative (yes yes i know your rent is very high and you don´t like your job) privilege in the global economy. which is objectively true in itself.
>>2918330the real ones all stopped playing at least 10 years ago
>>2918638halo 5 was ten years ago anon
>>2918639IMO the series ended with Halo 3
>>291862793% of the US population don't join the military. just guillotine the 7% that do and call it a day already
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