>>2608629I don't have a problem with jews actually
>>2608810>A little girl diedShame on her parents for bringing her to the Hitler youth beach party.
Though, considering what they believed…
one less potential settler.
>>2608749>a career boost>he realized ghat "feuding" (one sidedly) and anklebiting bigger ecelebs works just as wellhe predicted he would lost subs for shitting on Hasan over the Platner thing and thats exactly what happened
>>2608629>Yeth, and? What a madlad
>>260882115 million of my kids died in your mother's stomach last night.
>>2608829>one less potential settlerCareful with the anti-semitic comments
>>2608886Engagement farming final boss: sluts and Islam.
Guaranteed to get 17462882635 comments on your post.
>>2608886don't see the problem desu
>>2608899i forgot leftoidpol got filled with retarded theists these days for culture war reasons
>>2608909The Seething Sunni Republic or the Coping Shia Commune, you must choose, leftist man.
>>2608793>What do they even have to fight about?If you really have no idea you could watch the video.
>>2608888So every jew in the planet is a potential settler? Jawohl, mein Führer
>>2608956>So every jew in the planet is a potential settler?Only those sympathetic to Israel, which I reckon is the vast majority, at least within NATO. But regardless, this was a Zionist event by a settler and IDF supporting organization. That child's parents declared her a settler by attending a Chabad event.
Personally, I find it irresponsible to use children like that, but what do I know? I don't hold views by which my children are means to further some divinely ordained mission for racial supremacy in the holy land.
>>2608821haha I remember this kid. He was a sakaist who used to apologize about how his grandpa was a racist settler lol. He did a podcast with a fat black autistic lesbian who ate it up. She spoke fluent Chinese. This was in the Marxism-Maoism-Lesbianism days. Funny days lol.
>>2608779Haz is still alive?
>>2609027why is this pic so accurate tho?
>>2609227Why would BadEmpanada say this?
>>2609231N for Nimrod, libtard.
>>2608956>So every jew in the planet is a potential settler?yes? that's literally how Israel works. even more so with people born into Zionist families. your best bet for taking out Zionists and future Zionists is at Zionist events
>>2609248>fedpostingyour best bet for taking out zionists and future zionists is finacial, consumer, and social boycotts. sanctioning israel. dissolving the apartheid state.
we oppose terror, and that's why we want to focus on the fascist terror of the israeli state and settlers. they are infinitely more destructive than some random bozos even ISIS has disavowed.
>>2609241Evidence America is a failed society. The state needs to delouse him and his house to make sure pests don't infest the neighborhood.
>>2609263I only oppose terror for tactical reasons. I couldn't give a shit if zionists get murked. And ISIS is an Israeli asset.
>>2609275this would be 1000x more effective if chabad for israel didn't support israel, and israel didn't airstrike childrens hospitals.
nobody supports the terrorists, but if people rhetorically paint that little girl on the side of an idf bulldozer it's going to backfire.
>>2608993wtf are you talking about, jesse?
>>2609282kek. nice music choice.
so many important news to cover and hasan spends 4 hours stroking his own ego rehashing the one time that nicki minaj fans got angry at him.
i really think that democrat campaign agency he signed with has instructed him to focus on inconsequential shit.
>>2609241A strange personality straddling the line between lolcow,genuinely mentally ill and puppetmaster.
Asmongold's public persona embodies USian mediocrity, intentionally. He constantly appeals to the lowest of the low brow by acting the fool, on everything. Including politics now as well. And yet, Asmon seems to have positioned himself in a balance with regards to his main gig of gaming content, where nothing he says or does sticks to him. But his words still command loyalty among a following who seems to mostly "play along".
Kind of Trumpian
>>2609365bademp sees a 20 second clip from a 30 minute long video from an australian guy he's never heard of before, assumes he hasn't talked about palestinian deaths and israeli occupation enough, even though he's spent over a year and a half attacking the australian israel lobby, and antagonizes him because he's a content farmer who can only stay relevant by instigating drama with other people
>>2609402wrong wrong wrong: tom tanuki is massive for an australian far left channel, fired the first shot, and used zionist talking points to do it.
this is only the first time he's taken shots at BE on main. him and saltyjordies were referring to BE when the media shilling israeli conscientious objectors. five solid misguided minutes talking about
>solidarity with the israeli working classon their rolp podcast; israel abandoned the bundist kibbutz propaganda decades ago you fucking dickheads. they import a racialised working class from india, bangladesh, and thailand to avoid enfranchising palestinians through labor.
>>2609427old mate didn't stop the genocide, didn't inspire a popular movement against the genocide, didn't change a fucking thing. if anything it's just sad. one look at the homeless veterans pissing their pants fented out in the street should have taught him what yanks really think of their soldiers.
>>2609427I mean, does Bushnell matter?
If he does, why does Bushnell matter and not all the other one's who immolated themselves for Palestine but don't get any memory?
And if his immolation matters, what did it achieve? (nothing)
>>2609457>aussie far leftLmao
>>2609427I have completely forgotten about it until reading this post. Looks like BE is right.
>>2609402Wrong. You cannot call yourself leftist and call the deaths of zionists bad. The australian humanizes zionists so he is a fascist. Bad Empanada has exposed these zionist tendencies of the fake left imperialists. All who attack Bad Empanada for being right are crypto-zionists, or their misinformed idiots
>>2609316he's right insofar as jewish children are worthy of media outrage even though israel murders dozens of children on a daily basis, what's so controversial about this? is this board going to walk the zionist line just out of sheer bad empanada derangement syndrome?
>>2609518that's the only thing he's ever been flat out wrong about, but to be fair no one was prepared for how undignified charlie kirk's death was. kids literally film themselves saying "can you pass me the kirky" at thanksgiving because they think it's hilarious
>>2609518>>2609522Bad Empanada is not wrong in this case. He is playing 4d chess by being sarcastic to trigger liberals
>>2609518I won't blame him for this because frankly I'm surprised at how even despite the liberal media at the time saying the "we disagree with him but he was a champion of debate and hearing both sides blah blah blah" people really just forgot about him.
>>2609427wheres the lie lmao. propaganda of the deed is a fucking sham and i wont forget how mods were on damage control 24/7 those days banning anyone who said anything that wasnt praise for some depressed mentally ill person killing himself
>>2609533Proof that superstructure has real effects is ghat bushnell killed himself instead of fellow american soldiers
Secular christianity
>>2609522He was also flat out wrong that Americans would support the genocide
Guess the gentrifying Australian edgelord can get things wrong :^)
>>2609541Americans DO support the genocide.
>>2609518Once more, further proving Third Worldists have more in common with right wingers than leftists.
>>2609548go fetch your meds
>>2609548>OMG stop saying potd doesnt work!!!!! think of the optics!! the morals!!! solidarity!!!!!!!you have a lot more in common with third worldists than you realize brah
>>2609548>Third Worldists have more in common with right wingers than leftists.TRUKE
>>2609552He dismissed a guy immolating himself outside of the Israeli embassy but then started sweating “oh God, Kirk got shot, this is bad!” He clearly values the lives of right wingers more.
>>2609427>muh edgelordIs this too far for you? You were all about calling people "moralists" the other day, what happened?
>>2609555the kirk takes pissed me off but he came off it when it unravelled maga instead of galvanizing it and excusing donald X jeffstein.
ICE raids are still a daily occurrence though so it's pretty clear that no matter what stance you take on kirk it doesn't fucking matter.
>>2609555nazis started literally making lists out of people laughing at charlie kirk, tons of people were unfairly fired. we're lucky they're tremendously incompetent and their efforts were wasted. reading rightful concern for right wing blowback as "valuing their lives" is an interpretation so forced, it could only come from a retarded cpusa member. now hand your dues so that the cpusa leadership can continue living cozy lives.
>>2609555>He clearly values the lives of right wingers more.but when people tell you not denouncing Platner is putting the lives of US americans above everyone else you cried about moralism, shit goes both ways, no crying now
>>2609557His edgelordism is a symptom of moralism, not a repudiation of it.
>>2609564He dismissed a guy who was willing to die publicly and painfully for Palestine. Beyond dismissing it he had clear contempt for the man, “the world shouldn’t stop just cause some guy killed himself”, then Kirk dies and apparently the world
should stop because some guy was killed.
Besides he already says we’re all Nazis and the like, why should we care if this is their “Reichstag Fire moment”? What, we’ll go from 99% Hitler to 100%?
>>2609548This is the most schizo attempt at rebranding horseshoe theory I have ever seen, sometimes you make Felix seem like a normal dude, you both need to be locked up.
>>2609577>Besides he already says we’re all NazisHe says that about liberal zionists doe, are you self-reporting as one?
>>2609577You are the most boring fuck in this shithole board
>>2609539It's only a matter of time before one of these freaks transhumanistjakpost on an official goverment account
>>2609577Wrong. You are moralist. Your moralism has rendered you unable to grasp anti-imperialist post-irony and sarcasm. Yoy just dont get that the response you exhibit is what BE wants to provoke from chauvinists
>>2609577what % hitler was graham platners totenkopf tattoo?
>>2601769if this seems shocking to you, you should try reading plato
>>2609566>”people”You mean Felix, and there’s no need to denounce someone you didn’t endorse. Playing some moralists game isn’t something I’m gonna do.
Secondly I’m pointing out hypocrisy, not talking about him refusing to confine himself to moralistic standards. Before Bushnell was even cold he was sneering that nothing he did mattered, and I’d seen people say that if Bushnell really wanted to do something good he could’ve tried shooting someone at the embassy instead of “meaninglessly killing himself”
But someone actually shot Charlie Kirk and he starts sweating “Oh no guys! This is bad!” But now with the Bondi Beach shit he’s laughing at it and scolding anyone “on the left” for calling it a tragedy. Whether it’s intentional or not he’s basically doing the job of demoralizing the Left and creating propaganda for the Right. I don’t know all that much about the Bondi Beach shit but wasn’t one of the victims a little girl? So in comes some “pro palestine” guy laughing about it. So he doesn’t want people killing right wing propagandists, he doesn’t want people killing themselves to bring attention to Israel’s crimes, but he
does think murdering a bunch of random people in such a way that Israel can milk it for sympathy is great and don’t you dare publicly say it’s bad.
He’s literally the type of “pro palestine” activist that Israel would want. He’s more of a boon to the Right than the Left.
>>2609592>But now with the Bondi Beach shit he’s laughing at it and scolding anyone “on the left” for calling it a tragedy. Whether it’s intentional or not he’s basically doing the job of demoralizing the Left and creating propaganda for the Right.You are speaking like a zionist.
>>2609577>then Kirk dies and apparently the world should stop because some guy was killed.look, again, that's you putting words in some guy's mouth because you dislike him. i'd argue with you further but you're literally retarded if you think anyone is entertaining your clown show where you just literally invent strawmen from sheer air.
>>2609592>You mean Felixmedicate yourself, your obsession with a literally anonymous poster is embarrassing.
>>2609579Third Worldists love Nazis the same way Zionists do; it gives them something to point to and say “this is the norm, this is why we’re right in whatever we do”. When they see someone on the Left they’ll heap scorn on them for imagined deficiencies and declare them no better than fascists and when they see someone on the Right they’ll praise them or boost them in one way or another. Because ultimately they’ve substituted class struggle for racial or national struggle and they want the battle to fall along those lines.
>>2609592you're putting words in his mouth. he's not celebrating the bondi shooting. he's contrasting it with the response to palestine which is way worse and is flat out being ignored, and that the shooting was a gift to zionist censors. he didn't mourn kirk he warned people that shooting dumbass puppets like him would be handing martyrs to the fascists, who immediately tried to hoist kirk as a homegrown horst wessel. he didn't mock aaron bushnell (destiny did) he said that the US public was too callous and two faced to be moved by actions such as this and that activists should use their lives not kill themselves.
bondi was not perpetrated by the left. we don't need to apologise for it. the only miss was that any uptick of violence in the wake of charlie kirk has been imperceptible amongst the background chaos and daily shootings in the united states.
>>2609592>You mean FelixNot everyone who disagrees with you is Felix.
>He’s literally the type of “pro palestine” activist that Israel would wantYour party (in its current state) is literally the type of "communist" party the democrats that fund Israel want. Keep not denouncing Platner in the name of "pragmatism", you are doing great.
>>2609610is graham platner's fed posting and totenkopf tattoo a mere imagined deficiency?
>>2609610when third worldists want an example of left chauvinism, they point at you, retard.
>>2609617>left chauvinismNever heard this term before. Is this like the Social Imperialism Mao pulled out of his ass to explain why he didn't listen to Soviet engineers about the great leap forward?
>>2609617>when third worldists want an example of left chauvinism, they point at you, retard.Good I hope they do because it makes them look absurd by comparison. The seething they have for a guy for saying "The average American isn't an SS officer" shows where their priorities are.
>>2609615>is graham platner's fed posting and totenkopf tattoo a mere imagined deficiency?Your claiming we endorsed and support him sure is.
>>2609613>you're putting words in his mouth. he's not celebrating the bondi shooting. he's contrasting it with the response to palestine which is way worse and is flat out being ignored, and that the shooting was a gift to zionist censors. he didn't mourn kirk he warned people that shooting dumbass puppets like him would be handing martyrs to the fascists, who immediately tried to hoist kirk as a homegrown horst wessel.He posted mere hours after the shooting "don't ever let them force you to show sympathy to zionists" so it seems like he sure doesn't fucking care about optics or handing martyrs to Israel when it's not a right wing guy being shot. Oh, but some guy said "It's a shame what happened to the girl at Bondi Beach"? Rake him over the coals and call him a zionist manipulator. Somehow a viscerally repulsive man saying "don't mourn the Bondi Beach victims" isn't handing them a victory.
>he didn't mock aaron bushnell (destiny did) he said that the US public was too callous and two faced to be moved by actions such as this and that activists should use their lives not kill themselves.He stared dead-eyed at the camera and said "why should the world stop just cause some American soldier killed himself? He was completely casually indifferent to the man's death.
He can't have his cake and eat it too. He can't be publicly sneering at dead leftists or mass shooting victims as unimportant then panic about optics when some fucking racist douchebag gets a new hole in his neck.
>>2609613>bondi was not perpetrated by the left. we don't need to apologise for it. the only miss was that any uptick of violence in the wake of charlie kirk has been imperceptible amongst the background chaos and daily shootings in the united states.We don't need to apologize for it but we don't need to publicly state "who cares" either.
>>2609621Basically he'll say every single American is a little Eichmann and to the right of Himmler, blah blah blah, and if you say "that's absurd and you're insane" he decries you as a left chauvinist.
>>2609625i like how you went from "he cried over a dead fascists because he's a nazi like all third worldists" to "uhhm sweaty bad empanada does not have heckin good optics", just a paragraph or two away from accusing random people of calling you a nazi. you're the most ridiculous person on this board and no one should take you seriously
>>2609631He sweated over some dead right winger because “muh giving fascists martyrs” shit while previously showing contempt and disregard for a pro Palestine martyr and just not giving a fuck about Zionists being able to point to him showing disregard for a mass shooting. I’m not the one being contradictory here.
>>2609635>He sweated over some dead right winger because “muh giving fascists martyrs” shithe did so while fascists were already lionizing him, making blacklists of people who tweeted about charlie kirk, while trump was organizing a memorial on public TV. the bushnell comparison is completely irrelevant because, indeed, no one cared! like look around, are people singing "we are aaron bushnell"? the fuck are you even on about, why are you keeping tabs on this like your life depends on it, can you just hate e-celebs like a normal dude instead of doing it in a way that makes you look fundamentally dishonest?
>>2609637I personally know at least three people whose awakening to the Palestine issue was Bushnell’s death and since that death the U.S. public has grown more anti-Israel, but I understand it’s very important for third worldists to create apathy and contempt for anyone in the Western Left so they can keep grifting off “everyone around you is a Nazi”
>>2609639>I personally know at least three peopleI know six who were radicalized by bad empanada on israel-palestine, and he didnt even have to do self-immolation, i'd say he's winning this round.
>>2609640Okay, and? I’m certain there are just as many who were negatively polarized by his “you are all Nazis and nothing you do matters” attitude. I doubt all that many people became more pro Israel after Bushnell’s stunt.
>>2609642>Okay, and? I’m certain there are just as many who were negatively polarized by his “you are all Nazis and nothing you do matters” attitude.i dont think that's true because he has never said that, that's part of your invented strawman
>>2609625> don't ever let them force you to show sympathy to zionistsholds up. chabad's website has pages and pages of apologia for the genocide.
> we don't need to publicly state "who cares"thanks to "edgelords" eli schlanger has been quietly deleted from commercial broadcasts and propaganda. it's not even who cares, it's taking a principled stance to not participate in eulogizing zionist extremists or shamelessly waving their dead children in peoples faces. we know that chabad activists spend hours of thelr lives spamming
> amalek> pallywood> baby terroristunder photos of kids blown up in gaza.
> "why should the world stop just cause some American soldier killed himself?> He was completely casually indifferent to the man's death. so was the rest of the continental united states bro. they were also casually indifferent to the deaths of like 100k palestinians. the world didn't stop.
>>2609637this. CPUSAnon is acting like he wrote him a fucking eulogy.
>>2609645>it's not even who cares, it's taking a principled stancenot something CPUSA can do, they just anemically yield to war criminals like Platner, in a way that's just leaves enough room for them not to be responsible, until the stakes are inflated and it's lesser evilism all over. just a nothing organization with no backbone or credibility.
>>2609643His entire shtick is saying the average person in the west is essentially a Nazi and dismissing any attempt at political action here as pointless.
>>2609645>so was the rest of the continental united states bro. they were also casually indifferent to the deaths of like 100k palestinians. the world didn't stop.Literally Israel is more unpopular than ever before in the West and Zionists are resorting to more absurd measures to try and control public opinion. Fucking Kamala likely lost cause of Gaza. Whining “Durr there’s no point and you all don’t really care.” When there’s been months of protests serves no purpose other than to tell people to stop protesting because it doesn’t matter.
>>2609651now you're putting words in my mouth. I'm just telling anyone who celebrates aaron bushnell that they'll die in vain and they shouldn't kill themselves.
>>2609651>His entire shtick is saying the average person in the west is essentially a NaziI think I've been watching a very different e-celeb, are you sure it's bad empanada or one of your fun strawmen
>>2609652If you accept the notion that Bushnell’s death and the vast protests against Israel haven’t moved the needle on US public opinion on Israel then you’re basically saying it’s a completely pointless exercise to engage in any kind of anti Zionist activism. Theres no reason to actually try because it doesn’t matter, just go home and indulge in whatever you want because nobody cares if a bunch of Palestinians die, and if you actually give your life to the cause it still doesn’t matter because the cause is pointless from the start.
>>2609657>If you accept the notion that Bushnell’s death and the vast protests against Israeli like how you lumped in "vast protests" because you're not even convinced of your own claim.
>>2609657still putting words in my mouth. I cautioned against self immolation, when did I deride public demonstration?
I'll make an exception for ya: you're more than welcome to light yourself up mate.
>>2609651>Literally Israel is more unpopular than ever before in the West and Zionists are resorting to more absurd measures to try and control public opinionYou mean in a vibes kind of way. Or in a, people are not gonna vote for politicians who aid Israel in genociding kind of way?
Because the latter doesn't seem to gain much of any traction. And, if you haven't noticed pretty much everyone left of Trump is now some variation of liberal Zionist denouncing "Netanyahu" or coming up with their own pandering. Spain, Ireland, Turkey, UK, France, Sweden,Italy, (kind of)Germany… all have "denounced" the genocide in some way while doing literally the opposite and enabling it without interruption.
Everyone is on board with "the Trump Plan" in the real material sense, while hand wringing for the camera. The "protests" when they get big, are often co-opted by liberal zionists moving the goalposts to "peace" and "ending the cycle of violence" and "co-existence" and so on…
All BE does is point out the fact that Western states are run by and for the people of the West in a broad sense, not just a narrow ruling elite. They serve the broader Western nations over and above any class struggle that may exist there. Only with this can it be explained why imperialist countries have so much support from their working class and why there's never been any effective movement opposing them.
This is why imperial core marxists get so angry, because it pops the bubble they live in from reading 1800s political theory before the capitalist imperialist system solidified.
>>2609663
> Gaza is destroyed, Palestinians have been genocided
This, it's long over. Gaza is already a bunch of rubble and soon most palestinians will either be dead or displaced. In a decade or two someone like CPUSAnon will simply handwave the memory as something that only third worldists are concerned about, and that americans are currently not responsible for the mistakes in the past, or some other grand gesture like that.
Gaza is unlivable and the Judaization of the West Bank is going full steam ahead. All the US "left" did to oppose it was get some Turtle Island T-shirt wearing college kids to get themselves arrested for a day, and pretend as if a US infantry soldier burning alive was politically meaningful.
>>2609661 (me)
And more importantly, the deed is done. Gaza is destroyed, Palestinians have been genocided and continue being ethnically cleansed from the west bank at record pace. The occupation only gets more repressive with time.
A few wrinkling of noses when the genocide gets blasted in social media 24/7 is less than nothing. If NATO citizens weren't FORCED to stare at the carnage, as is the case for Sudan or was for Yemen, they would not give a flying shit. The "bad rep" that Israel and Zionism has is not on account of genocide, it's because Zionists are annoying fucks. And their extremely privileged status as a movement keeps being brought to the fore.
The moment all the EU socdems declare the matter solved and look to the future and the media can stop showing the gore, nobody cares. Because nuisance is gone. Give it a couple of years after the new Oslo.
>>2609661There have been plenty of polls showing even Republicans (young republicans granted) would vote for an anti Israel candidate who promised to cut funding to Israel to fund programs like Medicaid over a pro Israel candidate in general. But the problem with elections is that many of these options don’t even materially “exist” to people as an electoral option. Both parties establishments function as a lid to keep certain policies simply unavailable—through donors sure, but also economism. “Local politics” is how independent candidates would get their start but the jobs are both unglamorous and poorly paying if you’re honest, you will compete likely against two other candidates who have an infrastructure that’s truly national. American society as a whole has only become more atomized and individualistic in no small part thanks to the structure of capitalism here so retarded takes like this
>>2609662 presumes a kind of collective will and action that doesn’t actually exist out here. A collective will to act
can be built but it’s an uphill struggle that gets internally sabotaged by factions saying everything is pointless anyways.
>>2609668Already nobody cares. People who talk about Gaza today are seen as behind the times, the pro-Palestine movement was just a fad that is no longer "it". This is because the "Left" in the USA are just trend-chasers rather than people interested in internationalism as a principle. And it cannot be otherwise, since actual internationalism would be harmful to their self interest.
>>2609669They have ableist slurs but never opposing arguments.
>>2609670That third worldists dismiss arguments without addressing them doesn’t mean there is no argument.
>>2609674The glorious US internationalist revolution will happen any second now, the reason why nothing with any semblance to it has ever happened was just an accident without material reasons o algo.
>>2609670>internationalism as a principle. >actual internationalism would be harmful to their self interest.You must have some very particular idea of what internationalism entails because average American would massively benefit from global socialism.
>>2609678No better vindication of Third Worldism. So much of the West literally see the peoples of Africa, Asia, etc. as less than human. CPUSAnon and the Bordigoids can hue and cry about it.
>>2609670I don't even care about the USA, to be frank. The conditions will be forced upon them from outside anyway by the cold war. To me the gross liberal Zionism of the EU is much worse. I was just pissed at this "reputational damage" argument, about "moving the needle".As far as I'm concerned, the "needle" is an abstraction of a PR machine which has gotten very efficient at turning money into public opinion. Everything goes if you are willing to pay. So Israel taking "diplomatic damage" or opinion polls is saying nothing has happenedand nothing will happen.
But hey, we are getting a wave of fascists mirroring south america. So soon there won't be a need to even pretend to dislike Israel or concentration camps (for "migrants") are an unseemly thing.
>>2609681You don't understand how the livelihoods of average US Americans are propped up by the global financial system enforced via the dollar at the expense of the majority of the world population.
>>2609687>You don't understand how the livelihoods of average US Americans are propped up by the global financial systemThis is also something that americans intuit, which is why they're voting for Trump who is promising pain abroad to "fix" the economic woes within the US. So called communists here understand less than random-ass people on the street
>>2609678These people are fucking disgusting.
>>2609677Not sure what you’re trying to get at here. Revolutions are born from conditions at home and fought by domestic workers predominantly. I can’t think of any historical case of a revolutionary upending of the political status quo based purely on foreign policy.
>>2609689>fought by domestic workers predominantlyTheres your problem
>>2609687Maybe 50 years ago. Cardboard houses, plastic crap, corn syrup food, lead water, medical debt, worthless jobs and homelessness doesn't add up to much benefit. Global socialism gives guarantees worth more than whatever cheap bullshit the average American has.
>>2609688No, Trump promises a dream of a better life that most don't have. Some people think that's better than the Democrat's offer of nothing.
>>2607218>thinking machines ruined the videoThey still cannot delay the Butlerian Jihad
Reminder that Nabokov is Epsteinian.
>>2607218warhammer avatar dune pluribus baldurs gate
consooooooooooooooooooooooooooooomLe epic wholsome chungus CPUSAnon just wants free healthcare and watch his slop and play his vidya
consoooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooom >>2609718>you must be miserable until The RevolutionFuck off.
>>2609817>americansThere's your answer.
>>2609518BE looks and acts Israeli
How many Hail Maos do i need to say for my sin of consooming trans breakcore music while playing BG3
>>2609610You really shouldnt use the name of your party when you post your schizophrenic victim complex bullshit, I'm sure there are good but misguided people there who are not mentally ill like you, its not fair for them.
>>2609998you are beyond salvation, sorry
>>2609518>He was not worth itHe was worth it for the memes alone, dork
>>2609998To cure your Ultraism you must play Wukong on a Huawei PC.
>>2609670>Talking about principles and moralityMiddle class pearl clutching petit bourgeois socialist
>>2610027 (me)
Joking aside its kinda ironic that that anon talk about internationalism while subtly implying that American workers cant oppose imperialism because of their national interest.
If you think like that then you don't believe in internationalism. You believe that Marx is wrong regarding internationalism because if internationalism is true then 1. American workers would feel more attached to oppressed workers than to their bourgeois state and 2. Third World workers would materially benefit from sabotaging their respective bourgeois states in the name of internationalism.
There is no way to believe in a world systems theory and then believe in proletarian internationalism. At best you can only believe that in some far off future workers will benefit from espousing international worker solidarity, when productive forces are even across the world, but for the now and here the material interest of workers have more in common with their respective world systems and thus respective national states and national governments. So do not be a coward and say that you are a true internationalist, say it loudly that you think that Marx is wrong
>>2609674>>2609674Are the third worldists in the room with us right now?
>>2609670>since actual internationalism would be harmful to their self interest.Hail ᴉuᴉlossnW
>>2610136at least he's honest
>>2609669>A collective will to act can be built but it’s an uphill struggle that gets internally sabotaged by factions saying everything is pointless anyways.Daily reminder that the Treatler discourse is being spread in a glow op to prevent any attempts of building a movement through sowing infighting, doomerism, and making socialists look like self-hating psychos.
Even if someone isn't a glowie (like BE), they're partaking in it albeit unaware.
>>2610163You guys on /USApol/ call anyone who thinks dickriding the democratic party is bad or counter productive an "ultra" or "TWist" or "Felix", if anyone glows here is you.
>>2610163Divide and conquer, the #1 CIA tactic
>>2610175Yes dude, I totally love the DSA/CPUSA and Democrats. Absolutely 100% will jump to defend them from critique.
Have any other words you'd like to put in my mouth? Anymore stuff to make up about me ?
>>2610035None of them ever consider that this would also mean it is in all third world workers interest to only liberate themselves, while helping to maintain the oppression of others, so they can benefit from it. The ultimate conclusion would be that the SPD made the right call at the start of WW1.
Thinking of creating a podcast / show called 'String Them Up' where every week I make the case for why some billionaire / politican should be hanged. The entire thing would be rage-bait listening to work people up and to get them to play along.
I'd roleplay as the MC of a new Terror and play devil's advocate on the individual's behalf, listing the crimes of the individual and their disgusting wealth along with bits of humour. The listeners would be an audience at the gallows pleading with the MC to execute them, just tuning in to hear about the vile injustices they commit in the name of wealth.
The show would end after every mock trial with the words "String Them Up" and the sound of a gallows drop.
I'd also release a side episode every week explaining out-of-character what role said person plays and the political context for their existence to educate the listener.
Good idea or no?
>>2610316>Good idea or no?It's a great idea if you want to be door knocked by the feds
>>2610316im reporting you to Kash Patel RIGHT NOW
>>2610323Relax, it's a fictional portrayal of a dystopian world in which the evil proletariat have seized power and are carrying out their crimes of
liquidating murdering innocent
bourgeois cockroaches entrepreneurs
>>2610324>im reporting you to Kash Patel RIGHT NOWOn it
I'm engraving(sharpie) their bullets as we speak, boss!
michael from pah is currently crashing out at BE
>>2610359forge the evidence while the donut is still hot
>>2610397oh it's that central_committee retard
fuck him
fuck BE
michael from pa says BE encourages people to do nothing and that dirty disgusting foreigners are wrong and not allowed to criticize the USA left.
he says to vote real hard.
>>2610397>michael from pa says BE encourages people to do nothinghe is right in this part, despite all the bemoan by BE of what people should do he never does or points to somewere to make anything he says real, all he wants is more views for that sweet youtube cash.
>michael from pa says BE encourages people to do nothing
No lie detected
sneed
>>2610471>he never does or points to somewere to make anything he says realYes he does, he often repeats that building an independent third party even if it means ignoring electoralism in the short term is what he considers the correct move and often points out that other countries actually managed to break two party systems this way, the only problem is that it can take decades. If he is correct or not thats another subject.
>all he wants is more views for that sweet youtube cashIf that was his endgame he would pander to the Hasan audience. Pic related.
>>2610397>michael from pah*googles*
Ah, so another Hasan orbiter.
It's so funny that, they have to tail Hasan and the man himself has to do whatever the Dems tell him. So now these leftoids have "decided" to die on the hill of a literally-who, MIC plant, proud imperialist veteran, first time candidate for senate who used to gloat about *loving* killing poors and got a Nazi tattoo to commemorate it.
If I didn't despise these sellouts I'd pity them. For they are clearly being given a suicide mission to discredit "the left", by their handlers.
>>2610555An now liberal Zionism. And once the orange man is out and some (D) takes his place, all the wars become righteous again.
post
>>2610547>If that was his endgame he would pander to the Hasan audience. Pic related.First, the two aren't necessarily mutually exclusive. You can have deeply held political views while also being motivated by fame and fortune. In fact, the former often leads to the latter, because activists want larger platforms, and so they'll end up seeking popularity because of that.
Second, in a lot of cases, a more niche audience is actually better for your bottom line. Because they feel they have more of a personal stake in your output, they tend to provide more support for longer. For an example on the right, Sam Hyde's content is deliberately unpalatable and inaccessible to a mass audience. But he's been able to maintain his cultural relevance significantly longer than most of the other rightoids who got popular around GamerGate, and it's because his followers feel deeply attached to him personally.
My impression with BE is that he makes a spectacle out of himself, being such an unremitting asshole about everything he thinks, is because he wants to expand his audience while also curating it. He wants a cult audience of people who he knows are not only truly receptive to his talking points but also going to be with him for the long-haul.
>>2610037I can't think of a quicker way to rot your brain than spending a week watching some smelly dipshit who can't clean his house endlessly shake his head with every syllable as he says the most fascist shit he can think of.
>>2610175You think calling out people saying "americans aren't genetically proletarian and are subhumans" is dickriding the Dems lmao. Contrarian pussy.
>>2610647i dont think anyone is saying this anon. you should receive your daily medication
>>2610020Like clockwork
>>2609714>No, Trump promises a dream of a better life that most don't have.Intentionally bad misread or stupid? His own words is "everyone is scamming america" or whatever, what do you think this sort of rhetoric implies? That the US is naturally exceptional and the only reason your life is so miserably is because of foreign actors having it too good. You're fucking retarded, stop excusing treatlerites.
>>2610647You only "call out" all people who evaluate the "amerikans" on scientific material basis of their collective existence, history, and actions. amerikans have no proletarian history, but history genocide and colonialism and slavery as the majority of the settler mass were european petite-bourgeois and indentured lumpen convicted felons.
The ultimate lesson of the 20th century is merely that the struggle for the liberation of humanity will be waged against, not alongside, the first world "working class". Failure to acknowledge this is simply failure to properly analyze history.
>>2610743Yes. To advance further as humanity, the 3rd world proles need to avoid becoming 1st world treatlerite cargo cultists. We need cucktin to nuke the west but he is too cucked for that.
>>2610631I dont know, I would agree with you if he leaned more into parasocial BS like Hyde does but he doesnt.
All political content creators want to expand their audiences if possible and have a loyal audience, its his income source at the end of the day and the idea is to get your message across as many people as possible while not getting audience captured by people whose ideas you dont share but would end up having to pander to them for money, because thats what happens if you not "curate it" as you put it. If not, whats the point? But he doesnt seem driven just by that, or at least doesnt put it above his principles. As long as it stays that way I think he isnt doing anything wrong really. I dont even agree with him on everything (Ukraine for example) but his reasoning is always pretty consistent.
>being such an unremitting asshole about everything he thinksI think this is an exaggeration, maybe thats the way it looks if you only see his social media posts.
Third Worldist!!
Campist!!
Tankie!!
Authoritarian!!
Stalinist!!
Commie!!
I wonder what term they'll come up with after TWist has run its course
>>2610761Invoking the past like a puppet and making it dance isn't an argument.
>>2610761Gibberish
>>2610793No. No one does.
>>2610778>>2610801Are you having trouble figuring out the argument presented in my post? It's pretty straight forward guys
>>2610800You disagree with my inclusion of campist on this list? How so?
>want to create a reddit account for a niche fandom posting
>account globally shadowbanned at first post, presumably as "spam bot"
>create a second account on my reserve email
>account globally shadowbanned at first post
>create a teritary email and create another account with VPN off (I usually have VPN on when browsing)
>account globally shadowbanned at first post
>create yet another email and create another account from reddit's phone app
>write to my friend living in a DIFFERENT COUNTRY and ask him to create an account from his home PC on my behalf
>friend reports that the account was globally shadowbanned before he could even transfer the control to me
>account globally shadowbanned at first post
>enlist mom's help by asking a temporary access to her email account
>create a reddit account on mom's email using the reddit's phone app run on my PC from an Android emulator
>account globally shadowbanned at first post
AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA I JUST WANNA TALK WITH A FELLOW FANS ABOUT MY SLIGHTLY AUTISTIC OBSESSION WHY DO YOU ALLOW NEO-NAZIS TO EVADE BANS LIMITLESSLY REDDIT BUT WOULD NOT EVEN ALLOW ME IN????!!!!!
>>2610992just comment instead of making a post until like 100 karma I guess ?
>>2610996Actually I had tried doing just that on a couple of these attempts (commenting instead of posting). It didn't make any difference.
>>2610992Are you a fan of Zootopia?
>>2610761You forgot opportunist, falsifier, denier, modernizer, reactionary
>>2611031No. In fact, I had never even watched it.
>>2611035No, I did not. Most of those are mostly used by leftcoms, who would be more unlikely to use words like tankie or campist, it's a different category of retard. They are the same in that they're both anticommunist, but they're using more marxist coded language and zingers from the lasagnalord
>>2611090Leftcom retards thing workers will spontaneously just gain ultra class consciousness and just combust into internationalist revolution and seize the MoP and cease commodity production, when there has been zero signs of it for like a century now and 99.9% of workers do not even know what any of this shit means.
They will then their superb organic centralism which is supposed to oversee and supervise things but the leftcom parties barely have 12 people with no connections to real workers at all.
Leftcoms are mentally ill.
>>2611108Trvke. Leftcom retards are actually workerist tailists in denial.
first capists
>>2611111now
>workeristshow long till I see marxist used dismissively/perjoratively.
can we talk about some shit that's actually happening? coffeezilla dropped a vid on the epstein shit, the ipad kids running the justice department f*cked up the redactions, and all the stuff that's coming out is heinous.
>>2611155fuck your coffeezilla, all yank rich men ar epodes we know that already
>>2611155but we've already klnown that the ruling class are satanic pedophiles for decades now
>>2611177Go from unfathomably fat to hyper fat, then get shot, all the while being an illegal alien: mfw I'll never be this american.
>>2611173You are 2 days too late
>>2611170Say what you will but a Demonrat admin would never release anything
>>2610909Lassalean 𝑁𝑖𝑔𝑔𝑒𝑟
>>2611155>how long till I see marxist used dismissively/perjoratively.You see it every time you see someone call anyone a TWist or campist or tankie
I wanna know the tendencies in leftypol
Please quick vote in this poll:
https://strawpoll.com/Q0Zp7GDMDgM>>2611226
>she doesn't know about the wordfilters
typical jewish nigger
>>2611223
take your meds schizo
>>2611108Leftcoms don’t believe in “spontaneous revolution” or magic class consciousness. The basic Marxist point is that communism does not begin with a political seizure, but with the emergence of new social relations of production capable of reproducing society without capital.
That’s exactly how capitalism developed. Long before any capitalist state power, through concrete transformations in production (tenant farming, rent competition, market dependence) within feudal society.
Expecting communism to appear only after a party seizes power is the ahistorical error Marx explicitly criticised.
>“The mode of production of material life conditions the social, political and intellectual life process in general. It is not the consciousness of men that determines their being, but, on the contrary, their social being that determines their consciousness.” Marx, The German IdeologyPolitical organization does not create a new mode of production; it stabilizes and defends one that already exists.
A communist party, must derive its power from new economic subjects produced by new relations of production just as bourgeois parties arose from capitalists and wage workers generated by capitalism.
ML parties instead drew their base from workers (also soldiers and peasants) fully embedded in capitalist production, which is why their politics never escaped the capitalist mode of production in the first place.
>>2611324>Political organization does not create a new mode of production; it stabilizes and defends one that already existsthis is undialectical nonsense. we can decide to change things, assuming there is fertile ground for such changes
>>2611352"Fertile ground” isn’t a matter of will or abstract decision making, it’s the material relations of production that define what can actually exist.
You can’t just decree new social relations, you can only intervene in, accelerate, or defend transformations that are already emerging materially. Political work is reactive and consolidating, not generative in the sense you’re implying.
Capitalists didn't create capitalism once they achieved political power, they were a product of a new economic model, political power was established afterwards.
>>2611407>You can’t just decree new social relationsno one is saying this. what is possible is to change the rules. just like how private property was made a thing via enclosure. the way you do this is by seizing power and indeed decreeing that private property is no longer a thing. shrimple as
>>2611447'private property' is a social relation you mongrel
>>2611447Is this really what stands for ML understanding of economics?
Enclosure didn’t happen because someone “changed the rules” in the abstract. It was the political codification of already developing material realities. Dissolution of feudal obligations, monetization of rent, market dependence, surplus rural labour. The state ratified a transformation that was already underway.
Decrees don’t create new social relations by themselves, they only have force when they correspond to material relations that can actually reproduce themselves. That’s why “abolishing private property” by decree, without new productive relations to replace it is impossible.
Seizing power can accelerate or stabilize a transition, but it cannot substitute for the emergence of a new mode of production.
>>2611772Trump really has overseen the Bumfights-ification of burger rightoids
>>2612103Not gonna watch this but I'm gonna go ahead and assume he accidentally redpilled himself doing research for his GLADIO video
>>2612136the video is about how he tips every worker he can and thinks that redistribution of wealth is virtuous. im not familiar with his content, but he seems massively popular.
>>2612139>new rev and reve!!Holy shit lets goooooo. Only YTer i ever patreoned, because of the gaza vid.
Fuck Jesus, Adi Callai is new best Christmas man from occupied Palestine!
>>2611698myes but still there were real actual changes to law and so on. if you broke them the state would ultimately have you murdered. just like we will murder porky. you're making it more difficult than it is
>>2612139The Gaza ghetto uprising was really good, I recognized him immediately in this thumbnail even tho I only watched that video once when it came out like a year ago. I will definitely watch this one, thanks for notifying us anon
>>2612202You are an idiot.
>>2611320I immediately recognized its revolutionary potential when I saw a video of Fidel Castro fighting Reagan in a WWE match.
>>2612228That was the first piece of media not from the usual suspects (EI, etc.) after Oct7 that made me think, damn were not just going to descend In to liberalism with this, and more than thst he was uncompromisingly radical in their positions and arguments.
All his content is informative, went thru after that video popped off and leaned/was better able to formulate and articulate thoughts on the topics.
>>2611324>A communist party, must derive its power from new economic subjects produced by new relations of production>>2611407>it’s the material relations of productionnew relations of production require sufficient productive forces, which is exactly what ML are building. communist productive relations are predicated on a lack of scarcity which is materially conditioned by a quantitative change in productive forces leading to a qualitative change in relations of production, just like how the solidification of bourgeois right over devine right of kings was predicated on the invention of the steam engine
>You can’t just decree new social relations>Decrees don’t create new social relations by themselvesexcept that is exactly what ultras are demanding when they critique the soviets for "not abolishing commodity production". they very much precisely do in fact believe that socialism is a matter of passing a bill that says no more commodities and that the soviets consciously chose to betray the revolution by not doing so
>>2612255The bolshevik revolution was premature and doomed from the start but they couldn’t have known at the time
>>2610992Had the same happen to me. Every account I create is shadow banned instantly with no clue as to why
>>2612264it would have been fine if not for revisionism after stalin. unfortunately khreschev didn't understand dialectics and tried to stick to dogma in rhetoric after the material conditions changed while also compromising the base with his actions
>>2612272Revisionism happened precisely because the political party form has no inherent blocks to it
>>2612302>the political party form has no inherent blocks to itwhat would that even look like
>>2612269>>2612241Like the Stalin fighting Hitler one
>>2612303People with bad thoughts would explode as soon as they thought of revisionism
>>2611324>Long before any capitalist state power, through concrete transformations in production (tenant farming, rent competition, market dependence) within feudal society.As you just pointed out Feudal states backed those capitalist processes before capitalists officially took power. Meaning it was feudal state power that facilitated capitalism. And so socialism can also be facilitated through state power.
>Expecting communism to appear only after a party seizes power is the ahistorical error Marx explicitly criticised.Yeah, because it doesn't happen automatically. The state needs to actively push to get the boulder rolling.
>which is why their politics never escaped the capitalist mode of production in the first place.Simply killing the capitalist class and having workers collectively owning the economy means the economic system isn't fully capitalist anymore. Yes, they need to go further than just that but it is still a step out of capitalism. This is not higher phase communism you want but it's the beginning of the lower phase of communism Marx talked about which MLs call socialism.
>>2612264But it wasn't doomed from the start. It took several decades of bad leadership to sink the USSR and it could have been turned around at many points. The fact the CPC successfully did avoid this doom means it wasn't destined.
>>2612303The problem was insisting Democratic Centralism included unanimous party unity over possible factionalism. After revisionist take a single misstep it then becomes next to impossible to reverse it unless you have a military coup. Fix this to where the party can reverse bad decisions instead of pretending everyone agrees 100% with all past decisions.
>>2612310ai slop but the names got a laugh out of me
>>2612255The real issue you’re avoiding is when productive forces are sufficient. A century ago, in largely agrarian and semi-capitalist conditions, it made sense to argue that the task was basic industrialization. Capitalism was not yet the dominant mode of production.
But that argument cannot be extended indefinitely. If political power is exercised through capitalist relations, even if the social base is workers rather than capitalists, then the power of the state still derives from and reproduces the capitalist mode of production. At what point does quantitative growth stop being preparation and start being reproduction of capital?
Historical qualitative breaks don’t occur because productivity hits some abstract level, but because new productive capacities no longer fit the old relations. The steam engine mattered because it reorganized labour, coordination, and surplus extraction beyond what feudal relations could contain.
What is the equivalent rupture now? One possible answer is that globalized communication networks already make large scale, non market organization of labour technically possible. The barrier is no longer productive capacity, but the persistence of capitalist social relations.
And yes, some ultras have made the retarded argument that socialism is just a law abolishing commodities. That critique deserves to be mocked, but it is not representative of leftcom analysis, especially the communization variant, has always focused on material reproduction, not legislative fetishism.
>>2612517Feudal states did facilitate early capitalist processes, but they did so because those processes were already materially underway and provided revenue, military capacity, and administrative leverage the feudal order itself increasingly depended on. The state didn’t invent capitalism, it selectively enforced and generalized relations that were already becoming dominant. This is an important distinction.
The point is that state action can accelerate, protect, or generalize new relations, it cannot substitute for their material existence.
Killing the capitalist class does not abolish the capitalist mode of production if wage labour, value production, and accumulation persist. In Marx, a mode of production is defined by social relations, not by which class occupies managerial positions. Collective ownership administered through value relations is still capital.
The “lower phase of communism” Marx describes is already beyond commodity production and wage labour, even if distribution still reflects scarcity. Calling capitalist reproduction under workers management “socialism” doesn’t make it a transition out of capitalism, it makes it a different political form of capitalism.
That’s the historical question ML theory never resolves at what point does developing productive forces through capitalist relations stop being preparation and start being the reproduction of capital itself?
>>2612629>it cannot substitute for their material existence.When the state is the totality of all society, why not? If Marx thought communism could happen in his lifetime then why is it suddenly impossible now?
>In Marx, a mode of production is defined by social relations, not by which class occupies managerial positions.But without the bourgeoisie to stand in the way there is nothing to stop the worker controlled state from changing the MoP
>The “lower phase of communism” Marx describes is already beyond commodity production and wage labourHe was actually very vague. When he talked about it he didn't mention the elimination of commodity production specifically but was going on about rights and equality:
<But these defects are inevitable in the first phase of communist society as it is when it has just emerged after prolonged birth pangs from capitalist society. https://www.marxists.org/archive/marx/works/1875/gotha/ch01.htm>That’s the historical question ML theory never resolves at what point does developing productive forces through capitalist relations stop being preparation and start being the reproduction of capital itself?It is basically impossible to eliminate commodity production when you need to deal with he rest of the world that still uses commodities. This is just an economic version of a similar argument anarchists have when they insist the USSR should have given up the state organization of economy and have no hierarchy in the military to achieve communism before actually winning.
>>2612693
Leftcom above just argued ML states are incapable of changing the MoP and need to wait for it to happen naturally. Your post seems to imply the opposite?
Bros does anyone have a good viedo essay to watch
Arlo, the Nintendo puppet, is now worried about the transfer of wealth from the poor and working class to the rich.
>>2612654Who said it's impossible? I believe it is possible. The state being "the totality of society", by this you mean the nationalization of industry. Has nothing to do with alternative social relations of production.
Political power reflects the economic mode of production and the class whom it represents, in ML States it unusually represented the exploited working class, but nevertheless the political apparatus is connected to capitalism and relies on it to maintain influence.
I'll agree he was vague on the lower phase of communism, but it is clear he believed it was a structurally qualitative transformation. Not the simple nationalization of industry.
>“Between the individual and society there stands only the producers’ association, and this association has the ownership of the means of production in common.” - Marx, Critique of Gotha Program >"In a society which has advanced to this stage of development, the producers do not exchange their products." - Marx, Critique of Gotha Program Yes we live in a global economy, communism is not a national project to be realized within the boundaries of nation states. I am not arguing some retarded anarchist moral point on abolishing hierarchy and military. I am substituting economic organization for political capture as primacy of the realization of communism.
Without underlying new communist economic relations of production, the party can do nothing but alter the rules of capitalism to be more favourable to workers, or in pre capitalist societies develop the means of production to the point a communist economic model is possible.
Neither of which constitute the desired transformation. New economic relations, which can sustain itself seperate from capital must be developed, the parties role is to accelerate and defend the growing economy, not to institute it from above by decree.
>>2612713I think you are talking to a different poster, but regardless in never claimed it will happen "naturally". Technological development alters the organizational capabilities of humanity. This can be planned, not just spontaneous.
Basically MLs get so caught up in political power questions they forget what communism is about. We are beyond the stage of needing to develop the productive forces in pre capital societies, adjust your strategies or remain irrrelevant.
>>2612689What the FOK does this greek-austalian-argentine bearded sloptuber know about anything anyway?
>>2612716We gotcha fam:
>>2612139Or watch the vid Gaza Ghetto Uprising vid if you didn't see it.
>>2612264Imagine being this much of a Menshevik in the year of our lord 2025 lmao
>>2612736Mensheviks won.
Seethe and cope Leninoid.
>>2612746Very funny anon 😂
Happy Xmas! Feeling nostalgic for the 420chan jingle and snow.
>>2612748<Long live our fraternal parties! (Prolonged applause.)
<Long life and health to the leaders of the fraternal parties! (Prolonged applause.)
<Long live the peace between the peoples!
<(Prolonged applause.)
<Down with the arsonists of war! (Everyone stood up. Stormy, prolonged applause that became an ovation. There were shouts of "Long live Comrade Stalin!" "Long live the great leader of the working people of the world, Comrade Stalin!" "The, great Stalin!" "Long live peace between the peoples!")Banger for sure
>>2612689It looks like by the end of this conflict they are gonna pull the rug under western audiences as they did with linguistic shibboleths and neonazi symbology.
if you go to places like:
https://www.kyivpost.com/https://www.pravda.com.ua/ or their hilarious "historical" Pravda project (picrel)(
https://www.istpravda.com.ua/articles/2021/01/27/158890/)
It's like they are replaying the iron curtain script in complete denial of the last half century and, like, all of modern information technology. They got all these people, who obviously I'm not academically qualified to critique, spouting Gehlen organization takes with the occasional woke slop to wash it all down.
Yous average MSM enjoyer is gonna talk like the Nazoids, but guilelessly, earnestly believing the cold war fascist slop because it's the new virtuous thing to say and more importantly, they never experience any of the tensions of upholding that stuff. The average "supOOOOrter" never goes to war, never gets "foreign policy-ed" by a greater power and never has to actually live with the fascists their governments install abroad.
Cockshott video be lyk audiorel
https://twitter.com/catastrop_h_ic/status/2003795353838272732#m>basic ass communist take on intellectual property<You cannot be older than 12 bruh<Some of the most exploited workers in the capitalist system are artists and musicians<The most stupid ppl saying they don't believe in IP so they can steal artists work, make porn of it, do irreversible ecological damage<The much-maligned profit incentive funds R&D departments to do all kinds of crazy expensive shit<A temporary monopoly in exchange for advancing humanity's interests is a good deallook at our leftoids dawg
>>2612759He thinks China is capitalist.
Dropped
>>2613102You fucked up by going on twitter to begin with
The revolution happens in TruthSocial
>>2613182Brandon Overrated Kak Torres
>>2613183the revolution will be retruthed
>>2612517>After revisionist take a single misstep it then becomes next to impossible to reverse it unless you have a military coup. Fix this to where the party can reverse bad decisions instead of pretending everyone agrees 100% with all past decisions.but china is demcent
>>2612629>What is the equivalent rupture now? its computers. the global economy has been running on fumes since the 70s.
>>2612629>Historical qualitative breaks don’t occur because productivity hits some abstract level, but because new productive capacities no longer fit the old relations. its the same thing. sedentary agriculture leads to a surplus of food changing social relations, steam engine leads to surplus commodities changing social relations. computerized automation leads to changing social relations. the problem is uneven development and lack of revolutionary consciousness in the most developed countries and relative development of communist countries to hostile imperialist ones.
>The real issue you’re avoiding is when productive forces are sufficient.I'm not. Full communism is predicated on a post-scarcity economy.
>>2609682Sorry to say but the Third World is worse and has brought destruction upon itself.
t. Thirdie Pajeet
>>2613185resentful ACPoid detected
>>2613222You will still flee to the West, so I've still won, no matter how self-hating you are :^)
>>2612726>by this you mean the nationalization of industry. Has nothing to do with alternative social relations of production. I'm saying having control of industry (nationalization) is the first step to transformation (alternative social relations of production.) You can't actively change how production works without first controlling the MoP first.
>communism is not a national project to be realized within the boundaries of nation states. That's the issue. You can't completely change everything when most the world is still capitalist and we don't have complete control over human affairs. That was the reason Stalin explicitly gave for keeping commodity production in his 1951 pamphlet Economic Problems of Socialism. However he argues for continuing to move the economic system towards fully realizing communism step by step as was technologically and politically possible. It was Khrushchev who back pedaled with his market reforms.
>the parties role is to accelerate and defend the growing economy>not to institute it from above by decree.Not sure what the difference is exactly. If you control the MoP, the workers, the economy, society as a whole and you have the technological capability, then essentially it is "decrees" from the controlling part of the body that changes how the body functions.
>This can be planned, not just spontaneous.I fully agree with this statement. But it seems to clash with your earlier assertion economic change can't be imposed from above. Can you clarify?
>Basically MLs get so caught up in political power questions they forget what communism is about. Most anti-revisionist MLs agree things got off track long ago and often point towards Khrushchev. However I also point toward the structure of Democratic Centralism as being part of the blame allowing revisionists to hijack the Party in the fist place.
>>2613215Demcent makes policies harder to reverse. So when you are right you keep going correctly but when you are wrong you can crash.
Demcent lead to Khrushchevite revisionism being forced on the entire party, derailing USSR for decades allowing many weaknesses to pile up. All it took was Glasnost to show it. On the other hand CPC Demcent did not derail to the same extent because of Mao fighting Khrushchevite revisionism. They also didn't have Glasnost allowing them to hide weakness.
>>2613231Idgaf about ACP screeching retards
I also dgaf about your sloptuber
https://ofpatmos.substack.com/p/fight-jewish-exceptionalismBadEmpanada's first substack article.
Fight Jewish Exceptionalism
Anti-Zionists need to attack Israel as they would any other settler colonial ethnostate. This means treating Jews equally rather than as sacrosanct.
>>2613468billions must uphold the anti-Yakubian perspective
https://twitter.com/jacobin/status/2004190396109173179#m
>pic of marx and jesus together>tweet by jacobinoh no
<The conventional understanding of Marxism as doggedly anti-religious is wrong.oh no
<In fact, as philosopher (…) arguedoh no…
<Christianity and Marxism have at times inspired in humanity a radical sense of hope to build a more just worldbruh
>>2613259No I won't. I'll stay here and drown with this ship. At least I'll have the satisfaction of watching it all go down.
>>2613560Extremely weak Christoid tricknology.
>>2612139he spends a ton of time shitting on organizers of palestine protests for trying to identify agents provocateurs. anarchist try not to marginalize a mass movement by non-consensually escalating conflict with authorities in spite of the consensus of protestors challenge: impossible.
I'll never understand the anarchist impulse to infiltrate non-violent mass movements and use them as cover for vandalism. I don't even disapprove of vandalism, I just don't know why they don't just do it on their own time.
Eugenics kun might be a schizo but he is unironically right about Germanics. The more northern the European country the more depraved the people are. There's a hitler particle in all of them.
>>2613863>he spends a ton of time shitting on organizers of palestine protests for trying to identify agents provocateursCorrect though. If you're doing that you are playing straight into the hands of the state and its counterinsurgency strategies.
>>2613220>It's computers Yeah I fundamentally agree, but ultimately I believe it is social networking that ultimately enables alternative mass organization of productive labour outside market relations.
>It's the same thingSee this is where you have it backwards. The social relations of production that created sedentary agriculture, or the social relations of the factories (which was made possible due to rent price competition of tenant farmers in English agriculture) created alternate class structures, that later led to political ratification.
You have it that we invented some technology, which created surplus, that then changed the social relations. The social relations changed immediately, when people started practicing agriculture, it was a qualitative break.
>Full communism is predicated on post scarcity economyYes, and when do you arbitrarily decide it at that point? We are already there, the need to develop the productive further before a qualitative break has already happened.
>>2613318>Nationalization is the first stepWhy would that be necessary? Communist economic relations don't need to start on highly developed industrial productive technology, oppositely it should be practiced and developed in low stakes productive spheres, where capitalism is failing to provide adequately.
Capitalism did not start by seizing the feudal political apparatus, in fact, capitalism began with competitive rents in English agriculture. Driving productivity and market dependency on the increasingly proletarianized rural work force.
>Stalin, economic constraints No one is denying external constraints. The issue is how they are theorized. Stalin’s argument explains why commodity production persisted, it does not explain how it was supposed to be overcome. When capitalist relations are justified indefinitely on the basis of external pressure, the transition loses any internal orientation.
Marx’s point was not that communism requires “complete control over human affairs”, but that a communist society must be able to reproduce itself on non capitalist foundations. If internal reproduction (I don't mean within national project but general communist project) remains governed by value and wage labour, then external trade isn’t a constraint, it’s simply an excuse for reproducing capitalism domestically.
>Not sure what the difference is, spontaneity vs planningOkay long answer
Planning does not require the state to become the total owner of production. Planning means consciously organizing production and coordination on the basis of new material capacities, technologies and practices. Those can and historically do emerge within the prior mode of production, just as capitalist relations emerged inside feudalism.
When I say the party should accelerate and defend a growing economy, I mean it should generalize and protect new non capitalist relations that are already materially viable. That’s different from trying to impose them administratively while production still runs on wage labour, value, and accumulation. Control over the MoP gives administrative leverage, but it doesn’t itself create new social relations.
This doesn’t mean “waiting” or spontaneity. Technological development absolutely alters humanity’s organizational capacity, for me global networked communication is crucial in organization practices of 21st communism. The point is that these capacities can be organized before and beyond total nationalization. Making the state the universal owner can actually freeze those capacities into capitalist forms, because the state’s power is still derived from capitalist reproduction.
That’s also where the contradiction comes in if a party’s power rests on managing capitalist production, then instituting a new economic base means undermining the very source of its power. Nationalization isn’t neutral, it creates its own structural incentives to preserve capitalism.
Economic change can be consciously planned without being imposed from above. Planning coordinates practices, decrees substitute for them. Marx’s point is that social relations are transformed through how production is actually organized, not simply by who holds political control.
That’s why I’m saying ML strategy remains trapped in political capture, while communism is fundamentally about economic reorganization. We are past the historical moment where “develop the productive forces first” explains everything, clinging to it just reproduces capitalism under new management.
Attempting to impose new economic relations from above is unnecessary, structurally contradictory, and politically unpopular. A state whose power rests on managing capitalist production is unlikely to risk its position by instituting a new base; more likely it will shift the goalposts and stress external constraints.
>KruschevBlaming individuals for structural issues is idealism. "If only we had the right man for the job", similar to liberal framework.
>>2613893
Would you say theescelations to building occupations and factory decommissioning 'shits up the movement'?
Houngry
This article is excellent it has endless amounts of data to prove this. I feel some would get too butthurt to even read it but I hope one of you passerby people does. Bad empanada liked it btw. It has several other articles breaking this one down into pieces as well if you prefer that instead on this guy's sub stack.
https://tariqacknickulous.substack.com/p/no-jews-today-are-not-oppressed
>Jews Are NOT Oppressed: The Myth of Systemic Antisemitism
>Jews today are not a systemically oppressed group; they are extremely privileged. Antisemitism is not systemic oppression. This narrative only serves Zionism.Hope someone likes it
>>2613902
I can't really be clearer here. What doesn't help is that the original 'critique' is jut vageposting and seething.
If one would make decent arguments instead of pretending like were on twitter with Charlimits and 'le epic dunk and le based ratio'-culture then perhaps I could be clearer, having something to actually work with.
Mods, permaban chagos poster.
>>2613938>I feel some would get too butthurt to even read it Not exactly controversial or new information, at least for the left.
>>2614105i enjoy him but he is also surrounded by pseudo-intellectuals
>>2614105Emigre, dilettate-intellectual, unreliable.
>>2614124
>watched the video for maybe 30 seconds
>gimmick
Oh you mean the same language that's still used today in serious academic circles in an attempt to describe the mute, invisible, and unmeasured aspects and flows that actually lead to material change in society?
>>2614129MODS PERMABAN THIS DELEUZE GUATTARIAN NOMADIC WARMACHINE RHIZOMATIC MODERNIZER, NOW!!!
>>2614129>used in academic circlesThat's not a good thing
>>2614129GO BACK TO /DEAD/
>>2614129>>watched the video for maybe 30 secondsoh? is there a rule against commentating on a video you just started watching?
>Oh you mean the same languageby "zizek burying it under 30 tons of dirt" i mean that zizek has demonstrated that you can invoke lacan's ghost to say literally whatever, it's so choice that it's lingo that describes the "mute, invisible and unmeasured", don't you think? not saying that it's useless, but also that everyone will probably raise an eyebrow because it lends itself so well to fraudulent rhetoric. having said that, i feel genuinely respectful for anyone insisting on leveraging it.
fuck i deleted my other post i'm going back to sleep
>>2614146>is there a rule against commentating on a video you just started watching?Oh so we need rules now to avoid being rude to someone (me) who was legitimately stoked to see someone they follow giving a rare interview? Fascist…
>you can use lacan's ghost to say literally whateverI feel you there. It does come across as psychobabble bullshit but I think that when it's used in good faith to legitimately try and grasp the zeitgeist, it's permissible. Also she's a woman, and lacan is just astrology for girls who read theory. Let her cook.
>>2614161the co-host of Trueanon, pretty much the only significant/legitimate communist podcast for an american audience. This is ISG I would have expected you guys who know who she is but I guess you're all too cool for it or something
The problem with psychoanalytic bullshit is that it has no pathway to praxis
And any theory that has no praxis is wrong by defailt because how are you going to verify it?
>>2614169Aren't they radlibs like chapo
And wasn't it founded by a fed who was a mercenary for the US and killed syrians
>>2614173>aren't they radlibsno lmao. And chapo aren't radlibs.
>fed mercenary killing syriansyou really just believe whatever you hear don't you?
Man this website is full of the dumbest people who are irreverent for no reason lmao
Chapo are radlibs and true anon is opportunist.
>>2614178what does that make leftypol?
>>2614179Leftypol is an imageboard, not a podcast or influencer and therefore doesnt have a political line or ideology or whatever
>>2614181oh so the people here are even less relevant?
>>2614169Ah this shitty podcast
I tried to listen to it once but it was boring and uninteresting
And no im not american
>>2614177>P..pls care about my favorite podcasters!!Lol
>>2614177By what metric are truanon "communists"?
Also didn't chapo endorse that nazi tattoo guy a month or so ago
>>2614185Getting clout and stripes?
>>2614177Chapo certainly are radlibs, straight radical posturing. Just like all Americans.
>>2613889>Blaming individuals for structural issues is idealismOpportunism and revisionism are structural issues.
>>2614232No, they are doctrinal issues
i think chris hedges might be my favourite leftist
>>2614185US IMPERIALISM burger (imperial core) "leftism"
>>2614177>chapo aren't radlibsupvoted
>>2614245there are incentive structures that economically stimulate opportunistic and revisionistic elements
>>2614102Damn, I can’t believe doomscroll would interview the virulent anti-semitic polish nationalist, Liz Franczak
>>2613893I'd say that when there is a peaceful mass demonstration it's perfectly fine for protest marshalls to separate the edgy loner with no friends, no phone, a hammer, bottle of milk, zipties, and fox tail buttplug from families. the footage he found of PSL surrounding an anarchist was exactly that: fuck off tacticool weirdo we don't know you.
psl had an affinity group and unity of tactics. that wrecker did not.
>>2613867see above. speaking of counter insurgency why does this modern day lassallian finish up by calling to scope out the power grid like feds here and amongst the fascists do? is there some special counter terrorism law about the power grid?
>>2613900I don't disapprove of these tactics when activists engage them of their own volition. I do disapprove of "anarchist" wreckers deliberately baiting violent reprisals from the cops.
liz franczak is a fed.
>>2614173> mercenary for the US and killed syriansISIS but yeah.
>>2613889>I fundamentally agreeo ok. yeah i think computers seriously push down the rate of profit and increase contradictions
>The social relations changed immediately, when people started practicing agriculture, it was a qualitative break.i thought there was a lag. fuedalism hung on for centuries after industrialization. but how can u really know for prehistory
>and when do you arbitrarily decide it at that point?its not arbitrary. take china for example. they have to balance increasing qol with national defense from imperialism. it happens when all basic needs are met through surplus and distribution can occur according to need due to lack of scarcity. i expect it will happen sector by sector, like first food, then housing, and luxeries will remain market distributed until full communism
>We are already therei mean in a sense we are internationally, but not nationally, and the surplus is held by imperialists. if the west went commie tomorrow yeah we could plan a redistribution that fulfills everyone, but thats not what we have, instead the least developed nations went commie first and will likely have to prove themselves through trial by fire until the first world gets so jealous of abundance they revolt
we only think they can press the button now because they have just overcome absolute poverty, yes its in the cards but the priority is still defense
>Blaming individuals for structural issues is idealism. its less the individual and more what he represents
>>2614189well they are not chapo
though i do agree they have lost their edge due to patreon comfy
>>2614260I think he's easily the weakest kind of radlib, crying crocodile tears about how america has lost its way and abandoned it's laws and values to be a fascist empire. brother, when has the US ever applied its values universally? when has it not been the violent oppressor? what golden age of enlightened liberal democracy are you referring to chris???
posting some quality in this thread
Who Controls American Media and How is Israel Involvedby uncivilized
Four corporations dominate American media and influence the information consumed by the majority of the world. This video by Salem breaks down how consent is manufactured, how TikTok disrupted the system, and why it was forced back into line. From media consolidation to propaganda, this is how power communicates…and how Israel is connected to it all.
Follow uncivilized on social media:
IG: / uncivilized.media
TikTok: / uncivilized_media
Twitter: / uncivilmedia
Follow Tala on social media
IG: / tala_kaddoura_
Twitter:
https://x.com/talakaddouraFollow Salem on social media:
IG: / salem.d.barahmeh
TikTok: / salem.barahmeh
>>2614102That's crayzeeeee
>>2614447wow_mao and yugopnik crossover? a video about slurs? and they didn't bring nick mullen in? damn…
>>2614447The long awaited balaclava boys colab
>>2614447finally some good theory
>>2614179Knee jerk contrarian left
>>2614179The
REAL movement
>>2614434>Feudalism hung on for centuriesYou are confusing feudalism as an economic mode of production, and feudalist control of the political apparatus.
The distinction is absolutely massive and a huge reason current praxis fails so hard.
>>2614588they know their target audience. can you blame them?
>>2614531>You are confusing feudalism as an economic mode of production, and feudalist control of the political apparatus.no i dont think so. first industrialization, then consolidation of capital, then political power. its not a single factory is built and then suddenly the mode of production changes, especially if you still have most people as artisan craftsman or smallholders producing for use instead of for exchange.
if a nation like china still has most people producing for exchange, its not because of a bad political choice but because of the limits of production relative to the population and productive forces. they literally still had/have people living with dirt floors until like last week
>>2614592Mocking non-whites for worshipping Euroids is good actually.
>>2614177>some drunk deadbeat of a father who tells people to vote blue no matter who and biden is the lesser of the two evils is not a radlib Topkek
The Minaj is making a song on Der Kirk with Erikkka.
On the tune of the tradwife anthem, WAP, together:
There's some Zios in this house, there's some Zios in this house
I said JD's a freak, Erica or the Jeet
Wet Ass Charlie, make that Turning Point tweak!
>>2613889>Why would that be necessary? Because the state needs to fully control the thing before it can move the pieces around at will and create new relations. And just to be clear I understand nationalization is limited. Every industry in the world need to be controlled by the same body for a full transformation to take place. But nationalization is still the first step and many local aspects of an industry can be changed from that alone.
>Capitalism did not start by seizing the feudal political apparatusThe feudal political apparatus is what made the transition possible. The feudal state is what gave birth to capitalism. When Capitalists fully seized power it was the Feudalists who inadvertently gave them that ability in the first place.
>it does not explain how it was supposed to be overcome. By destroying the other capitalist states in the world and uniting all society.
>Making the state the universal owner can actually freeze those capacities into capitalist forms, because the state’s power is still derived from capitalist reproduction.The State is above the economic system. While it's true most states stay content sitting on top the economic system because of the class in charge is tied to that economic system. But as pointed out the feudal state inadvertently gave birth to new economic system of capitalism just as the slave state before it gave birth to feudalism. But this time when communists control the state they can push capitalism into socialism in full consciousness instead of inadvertently
>then instituting a new economic base means undermining the very source of its power. States don't get their power from the economic systems directly but from the people they control.
>Economic change can be consciously planned without being imposed from above. Planning coordinates practices, decrees substitute for them. This just seems like you think "decrees" are bad so you are running around trying to come up with reasons why commanding workers isn't necessary, that all you need to do is make plans then workers will just do them automatically. It's crypto-anarchist moralism, hoping you don't need the state to make those plans a reality.
>Blaming individuals for structural issues is idealism.I agree. That's why I said Democratic Centralism is a structurally flawed decision making system that allowed revisionists like Khrushchev to cause so much damage.
>>2614592>the left needs to validate my whiteness!Clown show shit lmao
>>2614619Yes and that means that capitalism as a new economic mode with distinct social relations existed long before the overthrow of feudalist political power.
Likewise communist economic organization will exist on some level, before achieving political power also.
I don't think you know what a mode of production is bro
>>2614969You’re treating the state as an autonomous agent that can create social relations by rearranging pieces once it has total control. That’s precisely the idealism Marx was rejecting. States don’t generate modes of production, they stabilize and manage the ones that already exist.
Nationalization gives administrative reach, not new relations. Commanding workers reproduces wage labour, it doesn’t abolish it. Calling this “planning” just confuses coercive coordination with material transformation.
At that point we’re not disagreeing tactically, we’re using two incompatible theories of how social change happens. I don’t think this is going anywhere productive. Go repeat the Soviet Union, have a look at China today and tell me how great communism is there.
>>2614969We’re talking past each other. You’re treating political command as the motor of social change, I’m treating production relations as primary. That’s not a tactical disagreement but a different theory of history.
>>2614980>That’s precisely the idealism Marx was rejecting.Except what made him different from anarchist is the use of the state.
>States don’t generate modes of production, they stabilize and manage the ones that already exist.Ignore the feudal state creating capitalism then. It was on accident but it happened.
>Commanding workers reproduces wage labour,Not when they no longer have a wage.
>Calling this “planning” just confuses coercive coordination with material transformation.No, I just pointed to a state as the organizational form that creates the new relations of production. You just vaguely point to workers and say they will magically figure it out after some plans are made up. You are an anarchist. Stop pretending.
>Go repeat the Soviet UnionI critiqued the USSR and CPC several times already…
>>2614983>You’re treating political command as the motor of social change,Political command is the process that workers use to enact the change. Again you vaguely point to workers magically just doing it with no coordinating body to facilitate it.
>I’m treating production relations as primary. No, you are pretending economics is separate from society like a liberal academic. But this is ultimately why leftcoms will never achieve anything. How they also came up with something as interesting as Organic Centralism is a mystery.
>>2614777>the fact of the matter is the USA ruling class unintentionally did the work of desensitizing and making cynical the USA public a long time ago … that is the reason people are making stupid crass jokes about the epstein situation.I think you're right, and also personalizing exploitation, abuse, etc. onto this one figure doesn't really change the system or wider structure that enabled him. Or at least it hasn't so far.
>>2614989This is such a good reply. I want to link every dumbass magical thinking anarchist who posts here pretending they're ""Marxists"" to this reply. It's so insane that these retards are allowed to have a computer
>>2614989I'm not rejecting the use of the state or party, I argue its role is to accelerate and defend new economic relations made possible with new technology. Exactly how capitalism came into being. New class formation led to new political operatives working on behalf of the economic mode to solidify and establish control. You claim to seize political power first, gimping yourself as this is a monumental and unnecessary step.
>No longer have a wageHow do you suggest that happens, seizing the state makes it easier to magically create communism? Why can't it be practiced on low stakes small scale production first. As a mode of production it should be suitable for producing all ranges of things, not requiring the whole of society.
>Workers will magically create it after some plans are made upCurrently no one even considers how we could create an alternative mode of production with today's technological capabilities. It is not spontaneous, and will not include all workers from the beginning. Most likely will appear in the areas where capitalism is failing to meet demand.
>Political command is the process that workers use to enact changeWithin the confines of capitalist production, yes.
>I'm treating economics as separated from societyYou are joking right? I say that politics as part of the superstructure is wholly connected and limited to the base mode of production. It is YOU who claims the state is above the economy and can alternate it at will. You literally said
>Power comes from the people not the economyAs if the people aren't economic units!
>Organic centralismIm with you there, it is damn retarded.
>OverallWe both agree that new economic social relations must begin at some point. You believe the whole world economy needs to be nationalized first, I believe it is unnecessary.
Analysis of
>Hunter gatherer to early agriculture>Feudal to capitalismSuggest this is both unnecessary and not how transition happens. Economic transition is a blurred process of completing economic systems, not the flick of a switch. New economic processes will arise amid the previous, establish itself as more effective, and finally challenge and establish itself as the dominant organizational form.
>>2615043>>2615033>Productive argument happening between two well read anons in good faithThis site has turned to shit
>>2614592Kyle got a lot of undue hate for using that image. Even BadEmpanada said something along the lines of, "Indians are poor therefore they pretend to be white for money", which is bs. Most of these people are part of coordinated troll farms and harrassment groups, largest of which is the BJP IT Cell. Also, the average poor Indian doesn't have the English proficiency to perfectly imitate native English speakers.
>The Bharatiya Janata Party Information Technology Cell is a specialized department of the Indian political party Bharatiya Janata Party, responsible for managing the party's digital and social media outreach. The cell has been alleged of spreading misinformation, causing mob lynchings and popularising stereotypical narratives against Muslims. It also coordinates online campaigns, promotes party narratives, and amplifies the voices of its leaders and members across various platforms.https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BJP_IT_Cell
>inb4 racistI am Indian.
>>2615072>BadEmpanada said something along the lines of, "Indians are poor therefore they pretend to be white for money"The sad part is BE isn't even funny enough to say it like this, which if it were the case, would make it the only likeable quality he possessed.
>>2615043>noo don't seize political power!>porky won't crush your nascent gommunist system because.. he just won't, ok?>please do not make use of the precise systems that have been shown to be effective in protecting against bourgeois sabotageit appears to be emitting visible light
>>2615043>I'm not rejecting the use of the state or party, I argue its role is to accelerate and defend new economic relations made possible with new technology. Yet you insist the state can't ackchyually do anything until after socialism is already around, but ackchyually the state doesn't need to do anything at that point anyway and ackchyually it's coercive and bad. That's why I keep on saying you are crypto-anarchist. You say you support the idea of a state but then come up with every excuse for why communists don't need it, why they can't use it and why it's morally bad to use it.
>You claim to seize political power first, gimping yourself as this is a monumental and unnecessary step.Capitalist stumbled onto capitalism but socialist don't need to stumble onto socialism in the same way. They were blind, we are not. That's why workers can use state power in a way that previous classes could not.
>How do you suggest that happens, seizing the state makes it easier to magically create communism? 100%. The power of the state allows you to order industries how to behave and interact. You can feasibly impose labor vouchers and eliminate money in one go.
>Why can't it be practiced on low stakes small scale production first.It can be t make sure it works. But when you scale it up you need some from of organization that can enact the change on a larger scale.
>Currently no one even considers how we could create an alternative mode of production with today's technological capabilities.While it's limited currently once you control of society you can assign engineers, scientists, economists to look at the problem and make those plans feasible.
>Within the confines of capitalist production, yes.Capitalist production is only possible within the confines of legal protection provided by the state. Which would no longer need to exist when workers take over.
>I say that politics as part of the superstructure is wholly connected and limited to the base mode of production.Both of those are controlled by a class. When workers control the state and the MoP they can change them both.
>It is YOU who claims the state is above the economy and can alternate it at will. Because it can if the class controlling it decides to change it. In practice though states don't try to change the economic system purposefully because the class in charge benefits too much. But that is clearly different with workers. They don't benefit from capitalism so they can use the state to change the relations of production.
>As if the people aren't economic units! They are but they are more than that. A state can potentially control the totality of a person not just their economic output.
>Im with you there, it is damn retarded.It was the only thing of value Bordiga wrote about. He noticed some problems with Democratic Centralism and tried to make his own fix. But then sat back in his chair and refused to do anything. Of course the only productive organizational issue he discussed is what you dislike of his lol
>>2614592Tried to watch the video to formulate an understanding of the messaging taken by this clown and the entire thing is one long incoherent diatribe designed to engage with audience stereotypes. The video is just designed to drive user interaction among a certain base through the same thoughtless content. How the fuck can you sit there for 40 minutes and listen to this shit is beyond me.
>report someone on the other site for saying a gamedev “should be killed” and calling on violence to them for making woke/leftist/worse RPGs, obviously violating global rules
>3 day global ban for “abusing report system”
Stochastic rightwing terror website
>>2615072> BJP IT CellThe name almost seems designed to farm anti-Hindu sentiment lmao
>>2615270I have never seen any example of spiritualism in a modern context that is not basically representative of fascist thinking. Always beware when you see someone into runes or paganism or any of that new age shit
>>2615270there's a tiny sliver of truth in that secularism is a form of repressed spirituality i think, it always comes back in some grotesque form.
>>2614747W.A.P. is a Cardi B song THOUGH
>>2615300is that threads? lmfao
>>2615287The belief people have an innate drive towards "spirituality", and that its absence is the cause of social ills is at best, a misdiagnosis of alienation, and at worst, reactionary drivel.
It's no coincidence that neopaganism started gaining popularity around the time of romanticism and the early upswings of bourgeois nationalism. Secret societies, heavily dominated by the bourgeoisie also took on an esoteric pagan character. Look at Rosicrucianism.
Today neopagan and spiritualist movements have dropped any semblance of a progressive character. They are movements of the petite-bourgeoisie.
>>2615300>Let's do better than thatHR is typing…
>>2615300>digital blackfacewhat's that?
>>26153002016 ahh ragebait.
Whatever happened to breadtube
>>2614974>communist economic organization will exist on some level, before achieving political power alsoi dont disagree im just saying thats exactly why you dont have full communism now
>>2614980>have a look at China today and tell me how great communism is therepretty good
>>2615322You mean NATOtube?
>>2615033>I want to link every dumbass magical thinking anarchist who posts here pretending they're ""Marxists"" fr they arent even leftcoms
>>2615322They became irrelevant
>>2615077>USSR>China>Protected against bourgoies sabotageYou have to be joking right?
>>2615084I said the states role is defence and acceleration of new economic relations. Not capitalist state nationalism and endless postponing of establishment of new economic models.
Never once have I said anything about morals.
>StumblingYes we don't need to stumble, I agree. I don't agree that part of the equation is capitalist state nationalization.
>Labor vouchersLet's get rid of "money" and replace it with "labor vouchers". Besides the ridiculous of this (I know Marx said something stupid about this), why has this never happened?
>Once in control science man will do itWhy can't that be done now? Why do you insist on political power being necessary? Perhaps you don't like the idea that so much time has been wasted on something completely unnecessary?
>Both of those are controlled by a classNo, classes are controlled by the structural incentives of the economic mode of production of which they are a product of.
>Clearly different for workersHow naive you are my friend, love how you shift the goal posts, first I believe the state is separate from economy, now you admit it's you but it's different if in the "name" of the workers. Once you become a representative of the workers and assume state power and control of surplus value extraction, YOU are the ruling class. Laughable to assume they didn't benefit from capitalism.
>They are more than that!A state receives its power from its control of surplus labour power extracted through social productive organization.
>BordigaI'm not an avid follower of Bordiga, read about "communization". But I have my own disagreements and ideas about applying this in practice with today's technology, in conjunction with state acceleration and defence.
>To sum it upme: Modes of production change through new material practices, which states may later stabilize or suppress.
You: Modes of production change through state command, because the right class holds the lever.
You insist I'm an anarchist because I refuse that political power can substitute for missing material relations.
You are an idealist, end of story.
>>2615345the PRC is still kicking
>>2615353>Let's get rid of "money" and replace it with "labor vouchers". Besides the ridiculous of this (I know Marx said something stupid about this), why has this never happened?we actually already have Marxian labour vouchers. they're called debit cards
>>2615300can I still watch bbc porn and jack off to it?
>>2615353>Not capitalist state nationalism and endless postponing of establishment of new economic models.You keep insisting the transition between capitalism and socialism can not have state support at all, ignoring all previous history of how the state actively pushed the next form of economic organization. This is despite the fact previous slave state actively supported the feudal relations and the feudal state actively supported capitalist relations. So why insist the state plays no role in the transition between systems when historically it already did?
>Never once have I said anything about morals.>>2612726<institute it from above by decreeThis phrasing about the state changing the economy is dripping with anarcho-libertarian moralism about freedom and hierarchy. And you also conveniently don't want the state to do anything until socialism just appears by itself…
>Besides the ridiculous of this It's not ridiculous at all. Simply put labor voucher cant buy farms and factories.
>(I know Marx said something stupid about this)Amazing you were lecturing me earlier about about what Marx said about commodity production and wage labor in lower phase communism but you don't understand the point of labor vouchers. Read Critique of the Gotha Programme.
>why has this never happened?Markets and market organization. Planing would eliminate the need for money which the USSR was moving towards before it pulled back after Stalin.
>Why can't that be done now? It can be done right now, but obviously the Bourgeoisie doesn't pay it's scientist and engineers to work out how to eliminate their class.
>classes are controlled by the structural incentives of the economic mode of production of which they are a product of. And the workers are incentivized to get rid of capitalist relations. That is why Marxists see the Workers as the revolutionary class.
>believe the state is separate from economyIn essence the state is the hierarchical use of power. It has existed in one form or another since the beginning of history through raiding economy, slave economy, feudal economy, capitalist economy. The state is above those things if it can exist through all of them. Not to say it is completely independent though as the most powerful class as created by the economy is what end up taking over those states.
>Laughable to assume they didn't benefit from capitalism.Considering most of them in the USSR got eliminated by the bourgeoisie in the end it turns out they didn't benefit. You are right, they were too conservative and they lost because of it.
>A state receives its power from its control of surplus labour power extracted through social productive organization. The state fundamentally gets it's power from violence imposed on people forcing them to obey commands. Control of surplus labor power is a benefit, not the source.
>me: Modes of production change through new material practicesAnd workers are the ones who implement those material changes. The state is an organizational from that controls those people and that forces them to implement those material changes.
>I refuse that political power can substitute for missing material relations.Who said anything about substitution? Political power can push the workers into making those new material relations.
>>2615402Why are white Unitedstatians so obsessed over saying this word?
>>2615500>my communitySo she is a s worker? Guys are really out there paying for lesbian cowboy cancer patients?
>>2615551So close yet so far
>>2615551tbh, hes got a point
can't claim pride in displacing natives and then play victims when some migrants move to your place
>>2615477Its the last thing that many black people heard before getting brutally lynched, so its funny in the mind of the average ameriburger. If you realize that most burgers are sadistic anti-social monsters, then you're a sakaist
>>2615477Because it was made taboo, gets you fired, blacklisted and justifies your execution. Amazingly it's the liberals biggest culture war achievement.
>>2615551Maori are Taiwanese invaders thoughbeit
>>2615557>Because it was made taboo, gets you fired, blacklisted and justifies your execution.Good ngl
>>2615477>>2615557when youre a communist instead of taking a stance on this made-up issue you realize right wingers just want to be racist bc of muh freedoms and left wingers believe banning a word means they solved racism
>>2615551>>2615555>>2615557>invaders/settlers/etc is some completely arbitrary categorytell me something new
>>2615508apolitical chad vs virgin conservative
>>2615551Ironically, Varg's (powerword: Kristian Vikernes) ideology would possibly, unintentionally lead to a proletarian revolution if only because he wants all whites to be expelled from the Americas, Africa, Oceania, etc. and it would finally end the US empires hegemonic influence on the world and the capitalist ideology it promotes, and I guess theoretically the surplus of resources the people outside of Europe have now could finally be used to their fullest potential to rapidly develop their countries on their own terms. Well that and the massive unrest it would cause in Europe from the flood of white expatriates leading to widespread revolutions in Europe because of the stress they would put on the systems now.
>>2615558Such overreaction is evidence the America's national unification project has only been partially achieved. If people weren't so insecure about black people's place in American society they wouldn't freak out about it.
>>2615563Those types have a one drop policy that excludes most Americans from being TRVE EVROPEANS
>>2615563Would could should
Marxism analyzes things as they actually function in the world rather than what they claim about themselves
>>2615414>So why insist the state plays no role in the transition between systems when historically it already did?The state, for example under feudalism tried desperately to prevent capitalist class power from dominating the state. Please read about the English civil war/revolution. The underlying economic relations had already started transforming. Only after they were already a formidable class power did they harness the states ability to accelerate capitalist expansion. Exactly as I say we should do with communist relations!
>dripping with anarcho-libertarian moralism about freedom and hierarchy.You only see what you want to see, it is easier for you to process that any critique of the state nationalization is from an anarchist, you are just looking for an easy explanation to get me to fuck off. This has nothing to do with morals, but a materialist and historical analysis of the process of transformation. State or political orginization comes as a result of defense of new or existing economic relations.
>don't understand the point of labor vouchers.I understand, I just think they are kind of retarded, and besides this is not something any socialist state has come even remotely close to installing.
>USSR was moving towards before it pulled back after Stalin.Pure idealist, if only the man at the top had done this! We should be extrapolating from development of productive forces, not talking about how if so and so has been the boss it would be communism now.
>Bourgeoisie doesn't pay it's scientist and engineersSo you believe the only way to replace capitalism is to use the incentives of capitalist production? Do you actually believe a mode of production beyond the profit incentive and commodity production is possible?
>workers are incentivized to get rid of capitalist relationsAnd this is the unfortunate idealism (worker fetishism) that existed in Marx. Workers interest very rarely go beyond simple improvements to their life within the bounds of capitalism. It is no secret the many of most ardent Marxists were not wage labourers themselves.
>In essence the state is the hierarchical use of power.And what even is power if not the ability to control the means of production/derive surplus, how does one in power eat if he is not producing the food himself?
>Turns out they didn't benefitAs if many corrupt officials didn't have a direct hand in orchestrating the collapse for their own benefit, Yeltsin being prime candidate.
>Control of surplus labor power is a benefit, not the sourceTheir armies are not doing much without food and resources, as I said before, defence is extremely important, but it is nothing without ability to seize the products of labour.
>forces them to implement those material changes.The workers ≠ the state. Also the state is essentially a manager of the internal productive relations of society, it's point is stability. Sure, in theory you could have some enlightened leaders of a state brute force it against the incentives inherent to their control of the political apparatus, but as I said this is unnecessary and not how economic transformations have historically happened. And contrary to all attempts at this exact method you are suggesting.
>push the workers into making those new material relationsI just don't understand why you insist complete control of world production is necessary to experiment with different organizational methods? If it can just be spontaneously pushed on the workers to do it differently, why do you require such a massive and basically impossible task as preparation? You postpone any experiment until it is achieved. This is just political fetishism.
>>2615794Anti AI hysteria is 100% PMC class anxiety nothing more. You would never see a warehouse worker or a security guard launching all these tirades against muh ai slop its always author, artists, lawyers, engineers, etc
>>2615805This also relates to my anger at libs smugly saying that rightoids are more prone to AI than leftists because they are dumber and more soulless, no you dumbass rightoids are more likely to use AI because their constituency tends to draw from the lower income class of the proletariat and thus less threatened by AI than you liberal arts degree holding twitter artist ass. This is why i applaud WSWS for launching their socialism AI which imo is a key way to educate proles on socialism
>>2615805Also as a closing addendum fucking hate when PMC treatler libleftoids masquerade their class interest as fighting for the truly marginalized. This reminds me of the passage from the book We Have Never Been Woke by Musa Al-Gharbi, where after Trump's victory Columbia University students, the treatleriest of all treatlers, applied for absent leave to campus administration because, and i am not joking, they are so mentally devastated by the harm that Trump will bring to the POC and other marginalized communities, and this request for leave was granted by the administration; while the proles working for Columbia uni, like the security guards, landscaper, and janitors, almost all of whom are POC and most of whom are migrants, did not receive any paid leave or higher wages or anything substantial to improve their lives. This is the same disgusting hypocrisy i saw when treatler libleftoids advocated their interests in the name of "protecting poor communities"
>>2615810That same johhny guy was accusing mamdani's anti-reformist critics of being ivory tower theorists and not caring about the real needs of the poor and marginalized.
Ah yes, the poor and marginalized NYC gentrifiers. Children of the suburban middle class coming to the urban center for career opportunities.
The treats will trickle down you see
>>2615798>The state, for example under feudalism tried desperately to prevent capitalist class power from dominating the state.Yet It was it's own legal statutes that enabled capitalism. Yes. Nobles wanted to keep merchants down but the Feudal state de facto supported capitalism through it's own laws.
>The underlying economic relations had already started transforming.Right. With the states support. Economics is not independent of the rest of society. The State was an integral part of the transformation process itself.
>You only see what you want to seeWho are you fooling? As if people on this board haven't seen the same loaded language used by anarchists and libertarians before.
> it is easier for you to process that any critique of the state nationalization is from an anarchist, No, right-libertarians also believe in minimal state interference in the economy because they think it will help capitalism. You also want to keep the state out of the economy but you claim that it will help socialism instead. Same exact policy…
>I just think they are kind of retardedWhy? It's an easy way to get rid of money (one of the goals of communism) but still keep track of what workers want while giving them some choice in what they consume.
> if only the man at the top had done this!Using politicians to represent policy decisions of the faction or state they represent is normal. It's not literally about Stalin as a individual but his leadership of the USSR and the polices he represents. Were you really confused about that?
>so has been the boss it would be communism now.How many times do I have to talk about democratic centralism being flawed before you get it?
>So you believe the only way to replace capitalism is to use the incentives of capitalist production?Directing workers is what the class in charge does the specific way doesn't matter. Capitalist use payment and employee employer relations while a socialist state would just tell them what to work on.
>Workers interest very rarely go beyond simple improvements to their life within the bounds of capitalism. Just because capitalists kill workers who step out of line so the majority keep their heads low doesn't mean their interest in being free of capitalism disappears.
>And what even is power if not the ability to control the means of production/derive surplus,The power to kill. That is the essence of state power and why people obey.
> how does one in power eat if he is not producing the food himself? By threatening the producers.
>As if many corrupt officials didn't have a direct hand in orchestrating the collapse for their own benefit,The vast majority of USSR officials did not benefit in the end. The ones that managed to get some money out of the USSR were eaten up by the market, oligarchs, and gangsters.
>The workers ≠ the stateThe socialist state is wholly composed of workers.
>Also the state is essentially a manager of the internal productive relations of society, it's point is stability. That is only one function. And states throw out short term stability for long term gains all the time.
Only liberals idealize the state as non political entity that just sits on top of things doing nothing.
>Sure, in theory you could have some enlightened leaders of a state brute force it against the incentives inherent to their control of the political apparatusYes, that's the whole point of a socialist state. To force capitalism into socialism.
>but as I said this is unnecessary So you say. But what if it is necessary? You want to have everyone waiting for hundreds of years before they realizes it's not happening? So you have some sort of timeline or is it vague feeling you got?
>complete control of world production is necessary to experiment with different organizational methods?I'm not against experimenting. But when they find the best solution you don't keep it local.
>>2615818This is another lib talking point masquerading as pro working class activism. Studies have consistently pointed out that anti reformist/abolitionist demands are practically non existent among the working classes.
>>2615841To use an example: abolition of police and its replacement with community policing. Again, community policing works the best in neighbourhoods with high level of trust and high communal solidarity, which is absolutely not the case in diverse, majority immigrant prole neighbourhoods. Same with prison abolitionism, nobody in the working class want that. This is another case of treatlers advocating their class interests in the name of the marginalized
>>2615638It's funny cuz Trump is even more subhuman but Clavicular supports him.
>>2615843Prison and police abolitionists (literally just anarchists) are so upsetting to me.
I once saw an argument unfold where one side
sincerely chastised and berated a communist for serving on a jury to convict a fucking
rapist and send them to jail, simply because ACAB or something.
Absolutely fucking insane. We have a lot of work to do in the American left to excise this anarchist utopian bullshit after BLM (a movement which I admit did more good than harm, it just has a lot vistigial side effects that must be done away with after the fact)
>>2615841There are reformist strategies that benefit the working class, just that nobody runs on them.
And they dont6 last anyway without non electoral organizing.
Rule of thumb is that directly providing necessities is better for the working class than reducing costs.
>>2615873Also clarifying that this was between Americans (I am also a burger). I'm not in touch with how much the ACAB style lib-anarchists have sway in EU and other places
>>2615843In the US, the existing police and prison system has to be changed to the point where the prison population would effectively shrink by 90% and reach parity with civilized countries. Because it's literally just a make-work program for white police officers and prison guards that runs on the blood of black people, effectively functioning as a preventative counter-insurgency pacification strategy.
Call that reform or abolition, but the entire system woild have to be replaced at the root.
Crime is a red herring, you're 100 times more likely to die of covid thsn from random violence.
>>2615500>“S workers”can tiktok ppl not say “sex” or what?
>>2615901Real alphas don't care about any that health shit
>>2615838At this point you’ve abandoned historical materialism.
You’re arguing that political power can will new economic relations into existence, rather than those relations emerging from material practices. That’s political idealism, not Marxism.
If socialism is defined as “the state tells workers what to do,” then you’ve just reproduced class rule with different managers. Ordering production is not the same thing as transforming productive relations.
Every historical attempt to force capitalism into socialism has reproduced wage labor, accumulation, and capital. Not because leaders were flawed, but because decree cannot substitute for missing material relations.
You accuse me of waiting, I’m the one arguing for experimentation now, without postponing everything until total state control of society, a condition that has only ever produced bureaucratic capitalism.
Once political command is expected to stand in for missing material relations, the analysis stops being materialist and becomes political fetishism.
>>2615888When black people call the police the kkk, white people interpret that as "police has a racism problem".
Police doesn't have a racism, it's a feature. The police is the deputized klansmen
>>2615931Sexual minorities are a disease because they don’t fit in the anglo box
>>2615931How much of the people on this website are sexually normal?
>>2615931IT people are either on oestregen wearing high socks or rabidly bigotted assholes. The document theory is is bunk, the Nazis attacked this institute from the get go in 1920 because they were heavily homophobic, while the Soviets were friendly to it and studying their findings to formulate a proletarian policies regarding sex and gender before the stalinoids put a stop to it.
>>2616027They died upholding kayfabe like every pro wrestler
>>2615931>Hitler was secretly a pervertThat's what jolly ol' Otto Strasser told the OSS as well, lol
But if you want to read an absolute banger, the ultimate TRVTH NVKE on Shekkkelgrabber being a sex pest and also a jew then you should read Grigory Klimov, lmao
>>2616008is the minstrel show progressive?
>>2616027>>2616033It's not kayfabe the right is actually that stupid.
>>2616076Minstrels weren't an avatar expressing the creators' feelings like reaction images are. You're a fucking retard.
>>2616080posting pictures of black people making exaggerating facial expressions to appease white repression is part of the exact samr structure as minstrel shows.
There is a correlation between being a gooning porn addict and fascism. I can't place my finger on it exactly but it's there. No all gooners are fascists. But all fascists are gooners.
>>2615554I like this guy even though his brain is irremediably poisoned with kulturkampf bullshit and ended up making 3 videos back to back about Sydney Sweeney. Also he's hot I'm not even gay
>>2615843You're doing the midwit leftoid pundit hack shit of advancing obviously reactionary rhetoric by pretending to mediate for the TRUE salt of the earth
>>2616173well yes, why would the ruling class not do things that's popular among them?
>>2615915>rather than those relations emerging from material practices. The state is part of those material relations.
>If socialism is defined as “the state tells workers what to do,” then you’ve just reproduced class rule with different managers. You have just redefined class to mean a management position within an organization. Class is how you are connected to ownership of MoP not management. People on top of a hierarchy are not necessarily the owners. Slaves can be overseers and still be slaves. Workers can be managers and are still workers.
>Every historical attempt to force capitalism into socialism has reproduced wage labor, accumulation, and capital. I agree ML states didn't go far enough.
>Not because leaders were flawedI do not just point to flawed individual leaders but flawed organizational structures like democratic centralism that lead to flawed decision making process. The leader is just the representative.
>I’m the one arguing for experimentation now,I'm afraid that if you ever managed to make something good capitalists will use their state power to destroy it since you don't have your own state to defend your project.
>without postponing everything until total state control of society, I only meant communism can't be achieved until the entire world is controlled by socialists otherwise capitalists will use their own state power to destroy it.
>Once political command is expected to stand in for missing material relationsThere is no stand in. The socialist state is part of the process by which workers coordinate together to achieve new material relations.
>>2615638his reasoning is pretty funny
>>2616250AI generated youtube South Park is the funniest shit I've seen in months
>Randy puts CD into computer, the CD turns into a computer mouse, Randy is holding two mouses, keeps slapping one of them on the keyboard, suddenly the mouse turns into beer, has a sipMy sides
>>2616231
>The state is part of those material relations.Yes, the state is part of material relations, but it is a derivative form, not their generator. That’s the disagreement.
>People on top of a hierarchy are not necessarily the owners.When a political apparatus extracts and determines use of surplus, “on behalf of the workers,” it functions as the owner, regardless of how you label it.
How did you come to the conclusion class is a management position? I said the state functions as a manager for stabilizing the economy.
>I do not just point to flawed individual leaders but flawed organizational structures like democratic centralism that lead to flawed decision making process. The leader is just the representative.Okay I respect you are not so rigid in ML thinking. But consider that it goes deeper than just flawed decision making, perhaps it is command that can not substitute for material relations in general. Your critique still rests on ideas and not structural and material analysis.
>I'm afraid that if you ever managed to make something good capitalists will use their state power to destroy itWhich is why I argue for defence and acceleration once new relations exist, not abstention from politics. Defence is not the same thing as imagining political power can manufacture a mode of production.
Also a communist economy would be far more effective and efficient than capital, good luck putting that genie back in the bottle.
>I only meant communism can't be achieved until the entire world is controlled by socialists otherwise capitalists will use their own state power to destroy it.World control first. That’s exactly the postponement I’m criticizing. Historical transitions didn’t wait for total control, they advanced through uneven, partial, contested development.
>There is no stand in. The socialist state is part of the process by which workers coordinate together to achieve new material relations.Calling the state part of the process doesn’t resolve the issue. If people are coordinating to defend and accelerate new economic relations, great.
If political command is used to compensate for their absence, then it is standing in for them, regardless of the label.
Was Jesus a marxist?
>>2616399It's kind of crazy that it can't even replicate something as simplistic as the visuals of southpark.
>>2616400>it is a derivative form, not their generator. That’s the disagreement.I don't believe the state is the generator of material relations but it is an integral and key part of it. The state is the DNA of a society. DNA does not generate the body by itself but it's an integral part of cell machinery. Yes, normally its main function is to maintain itself but it can mutate and change the body into something else. If you control the DNA you control the resulting body. That is why workers can use the state to change productive relations.
>it functions as the owner, regardless of how you label it. Yes, managers can function as the owner, however mangers are not the owner. That is an important distinction.
>regardless of how you label it. It's not just a label. Managers can be replaced with other workers because they don't have legal ownership of the MoP. Bad manager can and should be kicked out. As a side note the USSR should have had a more vigorous system to keep it's leadership more accountable too.
>How did you come to the conclusion class is a management position? I did not, you did. I said ownership is what determines class. You just said the function of manager is the same thing as ownership. Therefore you conflate management with ownership and see management as the determining factor of class. Again if a slave is an overseer they are still a slave, their management position is not ownership.
>World control first. That’s exactly the postponement I’m criticizing. This is only for higher stage communism. Lower stage communism aka socialism can and should be implemented even while fighting capitalists.
>Historical transitions didn’t wait for total control, they advanced through uneven, partial, contested development.Completely agree. That is actually the reasoning behind Socialism in One Country policy.
>>2615931Gorky, the ACP and now dickblast. Dunno why but hardcore Stalinoids have this obsession with treating being gay into an inherently fascist trait.
>>2615931Cockshott's a guy who allowed his intellectual and ideological core to be eaten away at by raw emotions more and more the older he's gotten. Many such cases. Cockshott's decline bothers me personally because I like a lot of his older stuff, but in the grand scheme of things, he's actually one of the less extreme examples. If you want a real tragedy, check in on Richard Dawkins.
>>2616506The ACP guys are really just fascoids who dislike the racism ot the Nazis. They didn't go for Stalin because they respect what he did for the Soviet people, they decided that he was the next best thing after Hitler. They want to recontextualize history so that the Soviets were actually the ones who stood for reactionary and decadent ideals like organized religion, patriarchy, nationalism, and expansionism.
>>2615638I've reached the opinion that all political pundits and bloggers should be sent to work camps.
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