A thread focused on discussing the parasocial relationships cultivated by the
Almighty Algorithm to generate profit off of our atomization and society's commodification of petty internet drama.
Brace through the hyper-real lacanian void together!Reminder That None of This Is Real!™
ɢʀᴀʙ ᴀ ᴘᴀɪʀ ᴏꜰ sᴘᴇᴄᴛᴀᴄʟᴇs
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CORE THEORY >The Society of the Spectacle (1967) by Guy Debord📖 •
https://www.marxists.org/reference/archive/debord/society.htm📺 •
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0blWjssVoUQ
<The Work of Art in the Age of Mechanical Reproduction (1936) by Walter Benjamin📖 •
https://www.marxists.org/reference/subject/philosophy/works/ge/benjamin.htm📺 •
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=blq9sCIyXgA
>The Culture Industry from Dialectic of Enlightenment (1944) by Theodore Adorno & Max Horkheimer📓 •
https://www.marxists.org/reference/archive/adorno/1944/culture-industry.htm📖 •
https://libcom.org/article/dialectic-enlightenment-philosophical-fragments-theodor-adorno-and-marx-horkheimer📺 •
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5hSLdd8R8mY
<Understanding Media (1964) by Marshall McLuhan📖 •
https://leftypol.org/edu/src/1782045945238-0.pdf📺 •
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=09ML9n5f1fE
>One-Dimensional Man (1964) by Herbert Marcuse📖 •
https://libcom.org/article/one-dimensional-man-studies-ideology-advanced-industrial-society-herbert-marcuse📺 •
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9ZCoLbEkAqs
<Discipline and Punish (1975) by Michel Foucault📖 •
https://theanarchistlibrary.org/library/michel-foucault-discipline-and-punishment📺 •
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s82uU4iRuko
>Simulacra and Simulation (1981) by Jean Baudrillard 📖 •
https://leftypol.org/edu/src/1782045945238-1.pdf📺 •
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1Yxg2_6_YLs
<Manufacturing Consent (1988) by Edward S. Herman & Noam Chomsky📖 •
https://libcom.org/article/manufacturing-consent-political-economy-mass-media-noam-chomsky-and-edward-s-herman📺 •
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=34LGPIXvU5M
>The Sublime Object of Ideology (1989) by Slavoj Zizek📖 •
https://leftypol.org/edu/src/1782045945238-2.pdf📺 •
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TtIckkHsUQ4
<Postscript on the Societies of Control (1990) by Gilles Deleuze 📖 •
https://theanarchistlibrary.org/library/gilles-deleuze-postscript-on-the-societies-of-control📺 •
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hu4Cq_-bLlY
>Postmodernism, or, the Cultural Logic of Late Capitalism (1991) by Fredric Jameson📖 •
https://leftypol.org/edu/src/1782045945238-3.pdf📺 •
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_4k26xGx1zI
<Spectres of Marx (1993) by Jacques Derrida📖 •
https://libcom.org/library/specters-marx-jacques-derrida📺 •
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TJr0NwXWb6Q
>Capitalist Realism (2009) by Mark Fisher📖 •
https://libcom.org/article/capitalist-realism-mark-fisher📺 •
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6Cb5XJH4NMI—————————————————–
SUPPLEMENTARY MATERIAL
>Precursor Material to Post-modernity and Critical Theory📖 •
Karl Marx - Book 1, Chapter 4 of
Economic and Philosophic Manuscripts (1844)
https://www.marxists.org/archive/marx/works/1844/manuscripts/labour.htm📺 •
Why Marx Was Right: Alienation - PlasticPills
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gPRxxN4Kh30📖 •
Georg Lukács - Chapter 4 of
History and Class Consciousness (1923)
https://www.marxists.org/archive/lukacs/works/history/hcc05.htm📺 •
Marxism After Marx: Reification - The Marxist Project
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uZiI-QKxBKI 📖 •
Antonio Gramsci - Book 1, Chapter 1 of
Selections from the Prison Notebooks (1929)
https://www.marxists.org/archive/gramsci/prison_notebooks/problems/intellectuals.htm📺 •
Hegemony: WTF? An introduction to Gramsci and cultural hegemony - Tom Nicholas
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-LI_2-qsovo📖 •
Louis Althusser -
Ideology and Ideological State Apparatuses (1970)
https://www.marxists.org/reference/archive/althusser/1970/ideology.htm📺 •
Althusser's Concept of Ideology: A Discussion with Anthony Gavin - Acid Horizon
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gtOqXxkKwvw
<Documentaries•
The Society of the Spectacle (1974) by Guy Debord
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mjF6I6SYjgA•
Manufacturing Consent (1992) by Mark Achbar & Peter Wintonick, with Noam Chomsky
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Li2m3rvsO0I•
The Pervert's Guide to Cinema (2006) and
The Pervert's Guide to Ideology (2012) by Sophie Fiennes, with Slavoj Zizek
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FYuI4SFw4g0https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oBcFLmu_tlc•
HyperNormalisation (2016) by Adam Curtis
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4bv3Tr3jvZM&rco
>Easy-Bake Breadtube (for absolute beginners)•
We're All Fake Now - Wisecrack
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RTW1mPOJJ_Y•
Are Cell Phones Replacing Reality? - PBS Idea Channel
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8AXIAM7dTTg•
The Cultural Significance of Cyberpunk - Cuck Philosophy
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nvor7hhDKTs•
Introduction to Critical Theory for the 21st Century - Nathan Dufour
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e7stVZPGxIw•
The Work of Art in the Age of Surveillance Capitalism - Brendan Morris
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aNKiBJJFXZI
<Situationist Archives•
https://situationist.org/•
https://notbored.org/SI.html•
https://bopsecrets.org/SI/index.htm—————————————————–
RECOMMENDED OP-EDS•
I Don’t Want to Be an Internet Person by Ginevra Davis
https://www.palladiummag.com/2022/11/04/i-do-not-want-to-be-an-internet-person/•
Pluralistic: Tiktok's enshittification by Cory Doctorow
https://pluralistic.net/2023/01/21/potemkin-ai/#hey-guys•
Facebook's Threads is so depressing by Jason O. Gilbert
https://jogblog.substack.com/p/facebooks-threads-is-so-depressing>>2891207Yeah delcy is opressing them selling out country
>>2891214delcy is being raped at gunpoint by uncle sam and being made to sign unequal treaties. you are a zionist covertly celebrating your win over the oppressed nations. begone scum
>>2891222Delcy is the Zionist selling out Venezuela
>>2890818erm based? total 1st world genocide NOW
>>2891077>Somebody will say something like "The DSA represents a major step towards class consciousnesslol yeah nothing says major class consciousness moment as socialists celebrating a bourgeois party winning elections so it can keep rulling over the working class with as little resistence as possible :)
any "somebody" that says something as retarded as that deserves to get clowned on
>>2891229Delcy and the PSUV sold out Maduro and Venezuelan people to get in Trump's good graces. Even NastyEnchilada acknowledges this.
>>2891293>Even NastyEnchilada acknowledges this.dont care what reactionary sexpests have to say on the matter TBH. unequal treaties are unequal treaties
>>2891262You're proving my point. The re-emergence of a social democratic movement actually capable of challenging and taking seats from the neoliberal establishment does represent an improvement in class consciousness. In what way is it not? Nobody is saying its anywhere near enough, the point is that it's some progress.
>>2891316Not when they immediately walk back all the socdem promises they campaigned on once in office and are brought to heel by the neolibs, which literally every DSA endorsed candidate has done
>>2891335>Not when they immediately walk back all the socdem promises they campaigned on once in office but by that point sheepdogs have already convinced many in the "movement" that these bourgeois operators are indeed advancing the interests of the workers, so they percieve anyone that attacks them as an "ultra" and start policing those that have actual class consciuesness, you know, like sabo anon does
>>2891335The degree to which promises are walked back depends on the strength of the movement and its ability to operate under its own power. Its simply not true that DSA candidates always retreat to the neoliberals once in power, at least not fully. Zohran has already pushed ahead with rent freezes, subsidized groceries, infrastructure spending, etc. The more of these candidates get elected, the less dependent they'll be on the neoliberal wing of the party.
>>2891364I wouldn't consider it ultra behaviour to criticize socdems or the DSA. I consider it ultra behaviour to dismiss the significance and benefits of these developments altogether because they aren't a fully formed class conscious worker's movement.
>>2891462I think all tendencies of Goth subculture - from 80s British rock bands to gas mask wearing industrial raves to neofolk chansons - could agree that whatever it is, it is not a porn category.
And yeah, it's supposed to be counter-cultural. It derives from punk, but more about escapeism than social rebellion and commentary. Which feels antithetical to going on a whore dating show with Drake.
>>2891475Do you really think 90s Norwegian Black Metal was a commodity?
>>2891371Germany had a similar class consciousness in the 30s.
They wanted more treats, they elected a "socialist" and they got their treats, for a little time atleast.
>>2891478I dont know enough about it but probably.
>>2891482The old liberal lady with the boat is right
>>2891481Hitler wasn't elected bro.
>>2891482>>2891484I am not saying it didn't become commodified, I am saying it started out in an enviroment that was very hostile to the idea of it. The media back than didn't even view them as musicians first and foremost, but as militant satanists.
Art is a commodity, but it is a special type of commodity because it can only be reproduced by an artist who has a monopoly on his work. So just because they had a fanbase, and sold records, means that they commodification was generalized- this is how opposition to capital in the arts is even possible. Once that is over (with big mainstream metal festivals for example) they cease to be artists and become merely aesthetic technicians.
>>2891481>still milking the "social fascist" cow in 2026Bro even the Soviets immediately realized how retarded that shit was. Just let it go.
>>2891507Even tour brand of socialism is a commodity. Its a lifestyle created, curated, and sold to you.
>>2891529>hurr durr everything is a commodity Unless you are literally buying Che shirts, Kneecap records or Huawei Deng special edition phone cases, it's not. That doesn't mean that it can't be a commodified identity, or function as such in the free marketplace of lifestyles.
A ton of socialism nowadays is recuperated to sustain the domestication of radical ideas, but it is not literally a commodity, that's a post-Marxist error steming from thinkers such a Baudrillard and his system of objects, where what a commodity does or how it can he reproduced is secondary compared to what it signifies, leading to the simulacrum, etc. pp.
>>2891455>goth is about leaning into being ugly or fatthe e-girls are doing it better
>>2891567May Iran's icbm's fall like rain
>>2891455why even fight tho, both e-girl and average goths are hot.
By the way, who is amadeusbolshevik and what is his ideology?
>>2891597My girlfriend is into kogal fashion which is a subideology of gyaru is that something?
>>2891597Theres plenty that do. Tons of white girls try to look asain now with the anime craze.
>>2891597That's just cosplaying as a 90's western prostitute tho
>>2891613And? The problem being?
>>2891613Even hookers were better in the 90s
>>2891615Doesn't make sense as an aesthetic outside of conservative environments. (And the "traitional" gyaru look is even worse, because it's about looking ugly as fuck on purpose)
>>2891567As if we needed another reason to hate them.
Twitch now uses streams as training for generative AI by default. Streamers can opt out.
>>2891657I think a conspiracy theory about Kirk's murder is a "functional" messaging strategy (or at least that's his aim) if you're like Jimmy Dore and want to unite the left and right in some grand left-wing schizo populist coalition, and so he will push whatever narrative he thinks will help manufacture that. But it has reached a point where it's hard to tell whether he really believes his own manufactured bullshit (he probably does).
For instance, if Kirk was indeed killed by some normie lib-leftist nerd with a trans roommate, if you're a basic normiecon Charlie Kirk flame carrier, what conclusions can you draw from that? You might conclude the left is bad (which is what you already believed) and they killed Charlie because he believed in free speech, but also the solution isn't really to do anything but continue voting for Republicans and maybe moving to a red state if you don't already, get married, have kids, and go to church. That's probably not what Dore wants them to do. Also, the fact that there
are lib-leftists out there who would kill Kirk (statistically speaking in a big enough country) is bad for Dore because that's not what he wants leftists to do either, so it's better to believe he didn't actually do it, rather it was a conspiracy.
I don't think Dore's scheme here is going to work BTW. There are a lot of problems with it. But a lot of conspiracy theories work to try and unite people. The Islamo-leftist "third worldist" enemy hydra stuff on the right is another example, because Israel support is fracturing within the MAGA coalition, so they need to come up with a common enemy which binds together Zionists, nativists, normie Republicans, and so on. How do you get free-market biz conservatives on the same side as a psychotic Zionist like Laura Loomer with the retarded /pol/ racist (who could also be antisemitic) who shouts "turd world!" at videos of a right-wing influencer harassing a Somali daycare in Minnesota. Well it's all "race communism."
>>2891657Israel killed Kirk
>>2891591Don't know but he makes MLibs seethe so he's based
>>2891720>surname is literally 'Lain'Based
>>2891455>turned into a porn subcategory>>2891462>can't decide whether it's primarily an aesthetic Gothic literature is all about women's relationships to abusive and alienating patriarchy, it makes sense. Twin Peaks is a gothic melodrama about a teen girl trying to fight against being possessed by a demon. Capitalism has universalized the condition of being a scary fairy tale Bluebeard vampire guy who grooms teens in his castle, so now every middle class guy can abuse women by turning them into sex objects and forcing them to get tattoos or piercings, or just wear a collar I guess
>>2891567what happens in bible to arrogant Jewish Baal worshipers who sacrificed children to their man-made pagan idols which they claim to be God (the "AGI" of AI cultists)
>>2891744>Twin Peaks is a gothic melodrama about a teen girl trying to fight against being possessed by a demonReminded me of Beetlejuice as well.
>>2891744One thing that tingles my brain is remembering that Marx was a victorian middle class man, so all those classic horror stories were pop culture to him. He was making pop culture references in his theoretical works.
And it's not that horror "seems to" make for good metaphors for capitalism, it's that the genre is the outgrowth of the disorienting alienation of capitalism.
Doesn't Dracula start with him doing a real estate scheme in order to acquire land to move to britain?
>>2891744Classic goth lit is actually about women jumping up the social ladder by taming a rich dangerous man by defeating his crazy wife living in the attic so that she can dominate the lower class servants.
Now it's all about the suburbanite teens pretending to be a tortured soul lol
>>2891455porn addicts are mad at you
>>2891455>it turned into a porn subcategory. Someone called it "OnlyGoth" which is a play on Onlyfans. It's hard to pinpoint it. Is it Goth Lite? E-girl Goth? E-Goth? Appropriated Goth? Neo Goth?
>>2891591Another ultroid retard
>>2890839It's like 5 flagschizos who do nothing all day but bounce on Putin's/Khameini's/leader of a random country they found out about 2 days ago's dick on the internet.
>>2891591Twitter leftcom guy who makes aura edits about Lenin. Recently lost his xitter account and had a meltie yelling at someone for being a transhumanist
>>2891805
You should continue posting, every new IP you bring gets us closer to triangulating your position
>>2890972>May allah curse and torture>May allah punish>May allah…Reminds this dude did a nude gay photoshoot and let other guys fuck his gf
>>2891808
If you ever get mail that seems a little heavy… well, let's just say that a little fentanyl powder in the mail is even more deadly than a letter bomb. Even breathing near a microgram is enough to kill you. So, we're just telling you to be careful with what you open!
>>2891816
Selling drugs is a good thing
>>2891819
why would I watch videos if I can just get high on meth?
>>2891797
schizo obsession with the mods.
>>2891825
>hebrew posting
>I'm not schizo u r
> antisemitism :'(
> islamist!
I love israelis, they're like a petridish of pure filth
>>2891825
touch grass. you are speaking in tongues.
and if you are not american, use the preem healthcare system you have to treat your schizophrenia.
>>2891749isnt this what quenten tarantino did?
>>2891831Dropped your flag:
>>2891764Not really. The 26th of July Movement was a big coalition that wasn't even fully composed of socialists.
>>2891779its a fashion fad like 'emo/scene' or 'hipsters', who the fuck cares
man, white usanian rightwingers are such a snowflakes.
it's been 10 years already since obama left and they still won't, can't, move on, from what they treat as a cataclysmic event in their lives.
if white rightwinger democrat libs somehow get a black hitler elected for president, someone who scolds black americans like biden did with his "you are not black" for not liking him, people like snowflake eagleman, who blocks on sight if you post his criminal record, will vote for the whitest greater satan they will find, call it a day, and gargle a 'OWNING THE LIBS' while having this white greater satan's cock in their mouths and burning in hell.
and this small facetious semi-rant is a small resume of the last 20 years of american politics.
>>2891475correct. under capitalism, all cultures are exploited for profit, all cultures will suffer from cultural appropriation.
>>2891476that's sectarian unfortunately.
>>2891507you can commodify anything. lukacs and istvan meszaros developed Marxists theories about it.
>>2891764Except everyone rightwards of the Trot, is lobbying to genocide every single human being outside of NATO. While also being the main purveyors of this sort of rhetoric about "the left" "uniting" with literal fascism. Except the anarchist, who gets ganked by everyone else, for running a food bank and then becomes a druggie.
>>2891912Marxism itself got commodified and used as a weapon by the capitalists against the proletariat
>>2891955If you kill everyone outside of NATO then there’s no more scabs through immigration so now the proletariat has more leverage. It’s historically progressive just like colonizing India and taking Texas and Cali from le lazy Mexicans.
>>2891957elaborate. this could be some top notch schizo post
>>2891960It’s not schizo at all, proles don’t have time or energy to read or think critically because they’re in survival mode all the time and thus only get lumpen consciousness. The bourg have the money and the breathing space to read Marx, and make moves based on that to prevent unions, parties, revolution, and they did it with the help of China, the premier Marxist state and also the biggest single instance of scabbing in world history.
>>2891555I can literally pay 2 grand to become part of a Native American tribe to drink ayahusca and do peyote.
>>2891963Bottom of the barrel
>>2892313That’s literally what proletarians are
Regular reminder that SpoiledEthnicDumpling is a smug loser wrecker faggot mossad asset
>>2892410I mean it's literally true. the CIA also created Western Marxism and the Compatible Left via the Psychological Strategy Board
>>2892382You had your chance, so stop shitting up the thread
>>2892310You are american
>>2892468They’re literally just doing black American stuff stuff by fixating on ass
>>2892468East Germany had a state-ran gay bar. Anything is possible!
>>2892512Everyone in the world but prudish white bois prefers ass over tiddies
>>2892512and thats a good thing
>>2891817Bruh, what?
What'd the anon say before their posts got removed lmao
>>2892552Keep an eye out for Brazilian glowies from now on.
This is second time this happens by the way. This is after someone sent death threats to a bunch of politicians from left-wing party PSOL for being "identitarian"
>>2892552Huh. So that's what anon spamming threads about being persecuted in /latam/ was about.
What retard had the idea to give a board to fucking Brazilians? These psychos are going to get the site shut down
>>2892552They should have said "in minecraft" or in whatever video game they were playing
>>2892566It’s supposed to be for all of Latin America and The Caribbean but alas
>>2892568they shouldn't have said anything in the first place
BE is basically just an Argentinian nationalist
>>2892576So what? That’s a progressive position
>>2892577Supporting a Zionist settler colonial capitalist state is progressive, how?
>>2891862Think about it. The White House is basically one big white vagina and Obama is a powerful black man. That basically means BBC penetrated the greatest symbol of white supremacy that has existed in the US. The US itself got blacked and white men were forced to watch this for 8 years on their TV like cucks. Do you begin to grasp the violation?
>>2892576BE is basically just a sex tourist pedo
>>2892512I was there when the American media pushed the idea of big butts being good (bestial, reactionary compared to the progressive, Promethean boobs). They started with J-Lo.
Hasanoids sure hate BE
>>2892702Nowadays you post a picture of a woman with a butt that isn't flat and people go "gyatt !!!" no matter how small it is
>>2892423i was so hoping for some actually funny shitpost. instead he went for two lines of, as you so accurately noted, bottom of the barrel propaganda. sad.
>>2892682will Homer creampie his own butthole?
they could have cut that whole thing down by like 2 minutes and it would have been funnier >>2891847The difference is the question of whose/which theory leads
The movement as a whole can be a coalition, but "united fronts" are not big grey blobs that zerg rush the enemy. they are explicitly the revolutionary working class movement's attitude towards temporarily aligned currents.
in a time of vague socialist impetus but no theoretical clarity, the first task is to split theoretically, as in, articulate WHAT WE ARE, so that we can have a coherent strategy of how we work with those who are NOT WHAT WE ARE. it's dialectical n shit. I guess that would be my more nuanced qualification
>>2892710its funny because they have basically identical politics but BE is le bad just because he doesnt toe the DNC line kek
>>2892682ngl tempted to watch the movie just because it's theatrical handdrawn western animation which is non-existent nowadays
>>2892802He's just annoying and clearly posts about himself on here
>>2892818Good, death to transphobes
>>2892818It was leftists who codefied free speech in the Bill of Rights
>>2892818probably exaggerated or fake news but w/e based brasilians kill all phobes
>>2892818Brazilian here, in all of these cases, mfs can just hire a lawyer or pay something to bail then all with burocracy. Americans are just retarded.
>>2892837The laws shouldn't exist in the first place.
>>2892818>criminal transphobiabased brasil???
>>2892841I don’t care how annoying you think alphabet people are, phobes are worse
>>2892844It's not about "alphabet people", its about living in a free society
>you say bad word, now you go in cage for 1 yearMedieval idiocy.
>>2892841Who cares ? you freedumb of speech to call someone a transhumanist is not gonna heal you fentanyl addiction or you cure your cancer tumor uygha.
>>2892846And btw china has the same policy where they force you to apologize or get caged or lose social credit score. And thats based
>>2892846>Who cares?Me. It's primitive to punish people for saying le bad words.
>>2892852It’s far more primitive to use them in the first place
>>2892854The difference between the two is that either feelings are hurt, or the state enslaves you. They are not in any sense proportional.
>>2892855Words matter, you’re not in middle school anymore, stop acting like it
>>2892852>>2892855Proles here are more worried about paying their bills and putting food on the table, thats why they din't take arms for their freedumb of speech to say uyghur or transhumanist. And besides you would only get arrested for g
Hate speech here if you actually called someone here a "uyghur", "monkey" or "transhumanist" over and over again. Not over fucking jokes.
>>2892818Here in the UK our courts actually declared being a transphobe is a "protected characteristic" you can't discriminate against, on the same level as being black, gay, or disabled
>>2892860>Words matterWhy? Tell me the devastating consequence of using a bad word.
>>2892857>libtardAs opposed to a conservative moron like yourself, absolutely.
>>2892861Freedom of speech is an unalienable right of all free people.
Just say you prefer being enslaved and be done with it.
>>2892866Also, you dont have freedom of speech youself. You can very well go outside and act like a anti-social retard calling everybody uyghur, transhumanist and saying you want rape then. Instead of the state jailing you for it, you probably get shunned by proles or at worst get fucking beat up, how is that not so different for being a slave by your own logic ?
>>2892845Then rot away in the US. We do not want you anywhere else.
>>2892866>Freedom of speech is an unalienable right of all free people.Yeah surely I should have the freedom of speech to verbally threaten to maim and rape you, your family, and everyone else who has your skin tone
>>2892792>in a time of vague socialist impetus but no theoretical clarity, the first task is to split theoretically, as in, articulate WHAT WE ARE, so that we can have a coherent strategy of how we work with those who are NOT WHAT WE ARENothing wrong with that as such, but overemphasis on how correct and pure your theory is can lead to constant infighting and splitting. Theoretical clarity is important but it should be combined with recognizing where others are right even if you think they're wrong overall or on other questions, and working together on points of unity. For example I would agree that the DSA's overall strategy is fundamentally flawed, but it would be very foolish to refuse to work with them on anything because of it.
>>2892869>you dont have freedom of speech youselfI agee - but that's the problem. See how I resent my enslavement, while you submit to it. That's the difference betwee us.
>You can very well go outside and act like a anti-social retard calling everybody uyghur, Why would I be so impolite, disorderly and moronic?
>you probably get shunned by proles or at worst get fucking beat upCorrect - that is natural justice.
>how is that not so different for being a slave by your own logic?Because people also have a right to defend themselves.
>>2892873Do you not have these freedoms?
Threaten away. I promise I won't snitch on you, like you would to me.
>>2892877Actually I do not think it's reasonable to send rape and death threats to anyone. Thankfully for you there's a nation on Earth that allows people to wear swastika shirts and sieg heil with no legal repercussions, I think you'd feel right at home there.
>>2892884>I do not think it's reasonable to send rape and death threats to anyoneNeither do I. Just because you can do something doesn't mean you should.
>>2892877>I agee - but that's the problem. See how I resent my enslavement, while you submit to it. That's the difference betwee us.If you think being "slave"=not being able to call someone a uygha or transhumanist. You are a retarded
>Why would I be so impolite, disorderly and moronic?Because you have freedom of speech to do that, so do it right now. You are not a slave as you say, do it pussy.
>Because people also have a right to defend themselvesSo thats not freedom of speech then. Because anyone can just beat the shit out of you or shoot you for doing that. True freedom of speech that you belive is not real in any kinda of society.
>>2892891Being a slave is being a slave. The state locking you in a cage for saying bad words is unjust bondage. But if not, tell me how its justified. The other anon already gave up explaining how much words hurt
>you have freedom of speech to do thatSo what? You appear to misunderstand what freedom is.
>anyone can just beat the shit out of you or shoot you for doing thatThat's already the case, but people rightfully go to jail for violence. Yoi can get mad at people and hit them, but then you get in trouble.
>>2892895I shouldn’t have to put up with people calling me a fag, I’ve had enough of that shit, if it means you go to jail then fine
>>2892896So the crime is that your feelings were hurt?
If you hurt my feelings, should you go to jail?
See the problem?
>>2892898I’m not gonna call you a slur based on something you can’t control, if I’m gonna insult you it’s based on your behavior and decisions which are firmly in your control
>>2892906Yes, we both agree.
There is a difference between the freedom to something and our inclination toward actually doing it. My point is that if an idiot acts prejudiced, he shouldn't be kidnapped and put in a cage. As you have already said, he may be shunned, which is good enough, but I'm also sure he will find like-minded people, so all's well that end's well in the best of all possible worlds.
>>2892876solidarity is contingent on discipline from below, not from mere "critique"
look at how american "progressives" went from "ye, we should defund the police" to "woke 1 was crazzyyyy" messaging because they lost the fear of god
the theoretical split has to mean something in practice
>>2892992That's all she's got against haz? weaksauce
>>2892983He is a dumb moralistic cunt. You can't live in a modern industrial society in the West without at some point partaking directly or indirectly in some form of immiseration, imperialism, Zionism, etc.
He uses YouTube, so, wanna go down that road?
>>2892992A weird side story is that Helali left the ACP. Meanwhile, Andrew Korybko was claiming earlier this summer that Helali's colleague Sarah from "DD Geopolitics" is in cahoots with Loomer.
>>2893020thanks fro the update.
is it over for the ACP? or will they just downsize?
>>2892997>He uses YouTube, so, wanna go down that road?6:49
>You know, it's not like a YouTube situation where YouTube is the only viable like video platform. So, you kind of have to use it. This is an e-commerce website platform. There's like 20, 25, probably 30 different viable options for that. and he happens to choose like the worst possible option run by Zionists, open proud Zionists who donate to Israel. So yeah, I just wanted to bring attention to this because it seemed like no one was noticing the Shopify part. >>2893029Say what you will about BE but he's obviously smarter than 99.9% of posters here
>>2893030B8 used to be believable
>>2893031It's not b8, a huge portion of people here cant even comprehend posts and remain on-topic, let alone land a gotcha on a 5 month old youtube video. The absolute state of this place.
>>2892992Might as well merge this general with /USApol/. Online spectacle is just mainstream politics at this point.
>>2893020No way, have a credible source? Wasn't he in the leadership board, co-founder and their international secretary?
>>2893035no, because in /usapol/ posting loomer is stupid. she's an influencer, and does not hold any official public office position.
>>2893040He left the position, but is obviously still a member. He's doing a livestream with Hinkle tomorrow.
I searched Xitter for recent posts about Helali and the only ones I found that were recent were complete schizo posts about glowing accounts that want him banned from entering the US.
>>2893020>A weird side story is that Helali left the ACP.He left because he's in Russia trying to get a visa or citizenship.
https://www.rt.com/russia/640977-us-journalist-russian-citizenship/https://tass.com/society/2141289He's still buds with Jackson but he has some mental disorder causing bouts of mania.
>>2893050It's weird because giving the international secretary to Hinkle
who already lives in Moscow makes no sense if Helali fears that he could be barred from returning to the US.
Whether or not Hinkle could return to the US is also unclear, I guess. There are several government and state actors in the US that openly put him on lists, including Marco Rubio.
>has some mental disorder causing bouts of mania.Who says that?
>>2893063>Whether or not Hinkle could return to the US is also unclear, I guess.Most likely there's a risk because of OFAC sanctions. Like if he's a paid employee of an "entity" designated by the Treasury Department. That could be a real problem. Idk why Helali would go there really but the reason is probably really stupid.
>>2893070<We were right about MAGA Communism and we were more advanced than the masses but also got that shit completely wrong because the masses did something else so we should go back to being Bernie supporters again except not really but also sorta (I guess) >>2893070wow i'm not even memeing anymore maybe the ACP are the true movement??
>>2892992>Laura Loomer beefing with HazI need a drink
>>2889202>bonbisecond this I wanted the video of the bald guy rambling about bonbibonkers but now i think I have dementia because I already request on another isg thread
>>2893094he's just like me
>>2893094The ACP insistence that they're both Muslim and Christian at the same time is very bizarre
I know nobody cares but the guy behind the death threats is some attention whore called Gabriel Astrogildo Dutra. He's trying to become a LOLcow like Marcelo Valle Silveira Mello, but he fails at even that because he's just not interesting enough.
His political beliefs are all over the place but he's not a leftist, more like alt-right (despite him being black). He's also filiated to Renan Santos' party so it's likely this was all a false flag.
>>2893180For non-Brazilians: Marcelo Valle Silveira Mello was the founder of Dogolachan, probably the most infamous Brazilian imageboard in history. He's currently in prison for being a massive edgelord.
>>2893253Actual radical centrism, just take a bit from every side
>>2893349That guy is such a hopeless propagandist. It's rarely worth listening to because you'll have to spend so much time afterwards parsing through the actual truth.
Interview i read with these guys, btw:
https://www.theamargi.com/posts/exclusive-interview-with-yasin-zia-the-rebel-general-fighting-to-overthrow-the-taliban >>2887489>Gazi Kodo LARPs as Joker>Haz use to LARP as BaneThe glow-in-the-dark left is united in its delusions of being a batman villain
>>2893442>he did land rights research for natives in ArgentinaTotally believable that some monolingual retard living as a sex tourist did land rights research for natives
>>2893456He speaks Spanish though?
>>2893143Is this about the stolen legos and the corruption of the mormon state
>>2893442lol wasn't he vocally decrying westerner youtubers/streamers going to cuba was performative nonsense? what a piece of shit
>>2893349Waow… the northeren alliance round 4? or 5 maybe? I'm sure this time it will all work out.
>>2893371>That guy is such a hopeless propagandist. I mean that was pretty obvious when 2 minutes in: "the long war journal a news website for the Foundation for Defense of Democracies…" Lmao
>>2893465Yes but it's different when he does it :)
>>2893473ah yeah i forgot, he's not a westerner
>>2893465he gave out big wads of benjamins in cuba to people on the street while Hasan piker was busy streaming in the hotel wasting electricity and sipping martinis made of tears
>>2893495This shit is cool, how AI art should actually be like.
>>2893479Even worse, he’s a bogan
>>2893495It sounded good at the time. I think we just lost interest is all.
>>2893495Nickelodeon is weird nowadays.
>>2893541All "politics memes" or "history memes" subs like this are fascist
>>2893442The fact that he doesn't stream every thing and keeps a low profile outside of youtube and shitposting is his #1 quality and it's clear that all these ecelebs really despise him for it
>>2893554Bro they're just improvising at this point
>>2893554Japanese should stick to making ugly bastard hentai.
>>2892808>He's just annoyingi think he is retarded sometimes but his antics make me laugh, i really cant see any reason to seethe at him like some people do here unless you are a Hasan fan or a DSA member or something like that
>>2893567literally who ever said she was anti-imperialist?
>>2893554They know their audience (netto-uyoku lolicons and Western alt-right weaboos).
How come even South Korea has a functional democracy (with the left-wing currently being in power) but Japan is dominated by the same conservative party for decades?
>>2893583The "left" (liberals) actually had a turn for a short time after the Fukushima disaster, but they were so incompetent they just returned to being a one-party state
Another notable thing to mention is that South Korean politics are probably the most gendered in the world. Men overwhelmingly vote for the right while women overwhelmingly vote for the left, it's basically incels vs. feminists.
>>2893495I loathe AI art but I will admit AI video is endlessly fascinating in its ability to emulate the feeling of a dream to an uncanny degree. I'd love to feed one prompts based on reoccurring themes I have in dreams one of these days.
>>2893590They don’t have ethnic minorities so gender is the only axis to have idpol on.
>>2893590Isn't this true everywhere though? Men almost always vote way more right while women vote way more left (Or I guess centrist, in the case of a country like the US)
can someone please convince right wingers that if they admit they were wrong we aren't gonna punish them?
just let them admit they made a huge mistake and promise to stop voting for guys like trump and we are straight, I swear, I'm not even mad anymore.
>>2893554What is with anime and far right politics?
Isn't this thr guy that was dressing up in blackface and had his black friend dress up in white face
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4FsqKacMqWc&t=497>>2893465The point was that the Flotilla also covered transport and staying costs (in pretty good hotels, mostly state hotels (which are also very fucking illegal for AmeriKKKans that Nick Shirley also stayed in those and HaSSan)) which were crowdfunded instead of just spending it all on supplies to the Cuban people
>>2893456>monolingualAre you sincerely retarded?
>>2893834His Spanish sucks ass tbhwyf
>>2893458>Is this about the stolen legos and the corruption of the mormon stateNo it's a whole new side-quest. He gets his mate who has a crim-record as long as your arm to get a job at one of those yank 'troubled teen facilities', then he as a 30 year old man gets himself admitted to the school for 'having gay thoughts'.
Sounds like that 'school' is going to be fucked in every conceivable manner, legally speaking, but maybe not because it's america.
>>2893831some Marxists certainly treat Karl Marx Thought as scripture. but BE hasn't actually read any Marx so he's in no position to judge
>>2893623What does this even measure? How is this calculated? How do they deal with marxist views?
>>2893253Oh shit, this is my ideological jam.
Although I am more of a Marx + List + Mises type of leftychud.
>>2893576The whole, what if a capitalist is working thing is kinda interesting. But still, wouldn't the capitalist have a disproportionate influence on society compared to everyone else?
>>2893831>>2893865BE is right though. we credit marx with creating the foundational texts and principles, but scholarship has moved on a hell of a lot since the 19th century.
every new left movement since lenin has critiqued marx in one way or another, this is the point of scientific marxism: historical and dialectical materialism are anti-dogmatic. where marx's claims or evidence can be falsified he must be discarded.
revisionism in marxism is frequently misunderstood. we oppose revisionism on goals and principles. updating our analysis of history and political economy is necessary to realise our goals and principles.
a tendency toward insular and dogmatic sectarianism is a major obstacle to revolution.
>>2893831The sexpat is also a soylib? Color me shocked
>>2893583South korea wisely chose not to restore their monarchy, making their democracy superior to those of the japanese
>>2893901nah everyone knows what marx wrote in personal letters is very relevant and 100% correct all the time
>>2893567That gold belongs to Juan Guaido!
>>2893831>HalalHummus is now beefing with Marx and referring to people who support his theories as religious zealots.BE is beefing with everyone because it is his literal job.
That said, your sacred cow, Marxism-Leninism has achieved fuck all since the USSR collapsed outside of China. Nearly forty years later, all that remains of Marxism in the world is butthurt guerillas too insignificant to bother stomping out in the third world, online larpers and western chauvinists.
And then Cuba, but you can tell just how much Marxism goes around by the international response to the Cuban genocide. Cuba and Palestine are like a microcosm of what "Communists" amount to nowadays. Thirty three UN resolutions, rivers of ink spilled in pathetic, impotent condemnation, not a single act of defiance.
In today's world, Marxism+ is an online, apocalyptic cult that prognosticates (not preaches, nor practices)
revolution in place of
rapture.
>>2894199>>2894198namecalling because you can't refute a singular point made?
>>2894201It's all lack of imagination of classless society and surrenderism to nationalism.
>>2894198post earmarked copy of Capital
>>2894121I'm not an ML tho
>>2893831>marx was a bad historianThis like saying Lenin was a shitty lawyer.
Also shitting on Marx and Engels doesn't negate thier major historical contributions to socialist theory. If Marx's work was truely "bad" or just not worthwhile, it sure as hell wouldn't be talked about today or even the years after his death. Yet for some bizarre reason it still is. It's almost like the works of these two guys weren't bad but actually monumental in the legacy it leaves and still fosters to this day.
But of course BE will obviously follow this up with actual brand spanking new outlooks on history that put Marx to shame right? Who needs historical materialism when we got (whatever BE shits out on stream) that puts Marxism back in the garbage bin of history where it belongs on the grounds of being dated.
>>2894353The point isn't that a 19yo has better access to information (there is no doubt), the real questions revolve around everything else. What kind of information? Bourgeois sources of academia or what? Which scientific studies? How much information? For what end is this research for? The outlets are practically infinite, more than anyone from the 19th century could hope to fantom, but the critical flaw in BE's statement is that even in the 19th century, information when put together in mass, is ultimately maliable and can be used to form many theories regardless of the historical epoch. A college student today can get information from many sources, but are they themselves creating that theory or are just being drip fed a prefab narrative? And more importantly are they putting thier theory to practice. That, is where Marx and Engels still stand above the budding bourgeois historians of today just as they did in thier time. They didn't just form theories and leave it at that, they tested it in practice and formed the basis of scientific socialism of which extends past them just as studies in gravity extend past Newton.
>>2894439>[Marx/Engels] didn't just form theories and leave it at that, they tested it in practice and formed the basis of scientific socialismThey did not. The only people doing real world experiments back then were the "utopian" socialists. Marx spend his time reading in libraries. The labels should be reversed.
>>2894121You can just tell this shitty "meme" was made in elgin.
Can the /leftypol/ twitter account not shill for BadEmpanada?! At least be agnostic when it comes to e-celeb stuff.
>>2894353I think he might use this thread to test what will rile up the terminally online tbh
>>2894506Speaking of leftypol twitter account. Have they calmed down on their weird misogynist stuff yet, or?
>>2894512>>2894506Now that I think about it, just make an unofficial leftypol twitter account?
>>2893901The context of this entire argument was that the New England bourgeoisie was according to Marx the driving factor behind the American Revolution, newer scholarship asserts that this was rather the landowning/smallholding yeomanry and planter elite - this doesn't change however that the American Revolution was rather progressive than reactionary, which is what Bad Empanada is arguing.
Bad Empanada delibertely mixes up Marx's historical materialism as a theory with the historical facts available to Marx at the time, to argue the American Revolution was "just as bad as Hitler" and Marx was a bad scholar. Of course this is bad faith, just like everything else he does (like pretending to be open to debate but blocking everyone who slightly disagrees).
>>2894682Doesn't remotely follow from what he said but okay.
>>2894688making the US military great again was part of Platner's platform and Hasan called him his GOAT, but yeah I guess you are right, he must have meant something else
>>2894689Hasan endorsed Platner's opponent in the primary months before the set scandal. He also regularly calls for the US military budget to be cut. You'll also see people here regularly point out what a scam the US MIC is. So yes, he obviously meant something else.
>>2893495>AI is actually good>but only when it deliberately mimics that type of uncanny valley bugman delivery coupled with stilted and awkward 80s-esque animatronic looking type visualscolor me surprised.
>>2894682critical support to MIC executives bleeding the Great Satan dry
>>2894692>he obviously meant something elseI will believe it when he stops supporting people that actually want that thing he obviously didn't mean :)
>>2894727Cockshott has pointed out the same thing. not that Ricardo is wrong, but that capital consists of concrete tools that can't easily be used in other industries. this limits how fast profit rates can equalize (if they even can)
>>2894712Just as a pet pieve of mine, 72 just means 'a lot' or 'many' in biblical lingo.
72 disciples
73rd Ferman
72 companions of Husayn
And so on.
>>2894712i thought he got his chery popped by destiny
I don't care about Hasan but seeing his haters crying about the heckin doggo being shocked and making tons of drama about that while being unfazed about kids being genocided is peak amerikkka to be sure
>>2894736It's peak hasbara
>>2894739Why do tanKKKiddies glaze Gaddafi so much?
>>2894743he was anti-imperialist hero and obama killed him
>>2894744True but it's retarded to have a rally about it now.
>>2894743His life long work led to the withering away of the Lybian state
>>2894743>>2894744I'll be honest, I really don't know shit about Gaddafi. From what I've heard, he doesn't sound like a great guy, but the people who ended up in charge after the US intervention pretty thoroughly destroyed the country.
>>2894747He was a developmentalist left-nationalist that had close ties with the USSR. Pretty common type of government during the Cold War and definitely superior to the alternative.
>>2894682more 👏 money 👏 4 👏 baby 👏 killers 👏
>>2894712And israeli terrorists wake up in hell with 72 destiny's ready to electrocute their prostate. You are on the wrong side of history roseanne.
Simon Dovey's blog is down. Do any schizos have it archived somewhere? He had a lot of noided writing on there I wish I had saved beforehand.
>>2894748He had great swag and must have done mountains of cocaine too
>>2894736White people care more about dogs than brown people, what's new?
What the fuck is wrong with Reddit devs? First they killed /r/all and now they're trying to force you to login to see content.
The only reason I used that shithole is because it was the only social media site I could just enter and browse with no login, no algorithmic feeds, no bullshit and they killed that. I hate the modern internet.
>>2894682give Hasan all those yachts, now.
We desperately need an "Old Web Revival" bringing back blogs, forums and all that stuff. Fuck this corporate walled garden bullshit.
>>2894828This shit all already exists but it's only for millennial hobbyists, lmao the zombiefied zoomers aren't gonna voluntarily start reading static longform content
>>2894830Are you talking about the Fediverse?
>>2894832These types of guys only go gay because twinks/femboys are easier to fuck than women. Prison gay
Also the left should embrace pirate party politics urgently. Piracy, privacy and free software are too important to leave it to liberals
>>2893831Marx was a bad historian compared to Engels even. Lukewarm take.
>>2894509he's many things but above all he's great at stirring the pot
>>2894832I don't like the way he smirks when he says butthole, too erotic
>>2894922>comparing a world renowned scientist and a human equivalent of a turdUnwatchable.
>>2894930You should really familiarize with his work instead of shitty memes about him.
>>2894832The Catholic Church is heavily influenced by ancient Greek morality through men like St. Thomas Aquinas. Greek morality was very cool with pederesty and some priests viewed it as ok because of that.
>>2894833These days twinks dont exist and hot fembois and t girls are harder for straight guys to fuck than hot women.
>>2894931What the selfish gene n shit? popscience sloppa
>>2894943Of course popular science if the book is written for laymen. Selfish gene is exceptional in the sense that it changed academic consensus as well (its outdated by now).
>>2894930>>2894931Dawkins is a right wing grifter nowadays who soys out to AI slop and seethes about trans people while saying the west needs Christianity to defend itself from Islam and progressive social values
>>2894832what if the balls don't touch? remember, it's only gay if the balls touch; therefore, it is straight if the balls
don't touch. therefore you can only preserve your virginity by being so balls deep into another man that your balls slap together
>>2894956>Dawkins is a right wing grifter nowadays who soys out to AI slop and seethes about trans peopleCouldnt care less about his opinions outside of his scientific field.
>>2895009Him being a retard rightoid grifter invalidates his scientific "contributions"
>>2895011Dawkins is why I'm a communist. His atheism book taught me materialist thinking, and made me reject religion and nationalism. It made it much easier for me then to become communist after simply reading the Manifesto
>>2895009>>2895016He was a mediocre biologist with very little in terms of contribution to the field who became famous for writing pop science books about genes and evolution and then becoming the face of "new atheism"
There's literally nothing of note about his "scientific contributions", he didn't discover anything, he just wrote what other people discovered in dumbed down language.
Anyway he is a massive Israel supporter, extremely pro-zionist.
He now tours around defending Christianity and saying how "as an atheist" he believes American Christianity is necessary to "save the west".
He wrote a news article a couple months ago about how he had literally fallen in love with Anthropic's Claude AI model, which oddly he called "Claudette" and gendered as female. Which is a courtesy he won't grant to trans people, who are actual real human beings.
The Selfish Gene isn't even good science but neolibs latched onto it the same way ye olde British colonialists latched onto Darwin
>>2895067But Darwin had good points that was based on scientific practice
>>2895022why won't you let me shout heil hitler??? i'm just critiquing judaism bro
>>2895188Sex ≠ sexual reproduction
Felt like this was an actually decent take on Arday, to a degree.
<If you want to learn something from the Jason Arday situation, it has to be "do not give the racist right easy layups by indulging the worst practices of liberal identity politics engaged in by liberal institutions trying to deradicalize you via tokenism."
<Arday himself was a tool used by the institution to project a progressive image in line with the dictates of modern liberal, substanceless, feel good idpol sentiments. They didn't care about his obviously bullshit backstory or his questionable academic contributions. When you elevate someone to such a prominent and public facing position without any real scrutiny in large part due to an identity category, you are setting them up to be torn down, dissected, and have every one of their failings used as propaganda to serve a repugnant genocidal agenda.
<The people who attacked him are well funded and part of a much broader racist intellectual movement. They are horrible people, but they are not stupid. When they saw someone like Arday being put into the position that he was in, they salivated like hungry wolves: a black man who is also a compulsive liar with a questionable academic history. He was served up to them on a platter by Cambridge.
<Jason Arday was not an individualistic moral failure but rather a creation of an entire system designed to subsume actual radical anti Imperialist and anti racist politics into its own institutions where they can be rendered unthreatening to the prevailing global order. Given this cynical goal, it was inevitable that they would lose out when faced with ideologically committed racists.
<The only way to effectively fight the racist right is with a genuine materialist anti-racist politic, rather than liberal standpoint epistemology garbage based on vibes and stories that make you feel fuzzy inside, where the way to fight racism isn't to liberate the racialized billions of the world but rather to celebrate meaningless token gestures like Cambridge, an institution dedicated to furthering that very imperialism, hiring a black professor.
<It is a politics of mitigating dissent by accepting and showcasing individuals from imperialized identities into the system; the racists on the other hand believe that even this is too far and those people should be outright excluded. It is a battle over the management of imperialism. We must not allow ourselves to be mislead into thinking that we are allies with the former group, as we oppose the very existence of the system that they are trying to maintain with these sorts of token concessions.
<This is not even to mention the fact that even within Cambridge's own ideological framework, they failed! There are hundreds of black scholars with much more impressive records and no grandiose exaggerations about their personal life who they could have hired. But they wanted the guy with the media profile and celebrity scholar image, not the one with the best record. It is many layers of cynical and self serving.BE -
https://www.youtube.com/post/Ugkx4jE83xzem1p8wo9plSKIfVkqnLZeLukB>>2894930Bro why do these mfs don't realise that "christians" aren't suicide bombing BECAUSE it has declined?!
>>2894930So Dawkings didn't see the Troubles?
>>2895253i guess his answer will be that its a conflict over nationalism.
>>2895267My kneejerk schizo reaction is an attempt to redirect pedophile criticism from Israel/ mossad to Turkiye, Israel's next regional target after Iran
>>2895292The best part is that it was the PFP of some actual turknat.
>>2895267Turks are proud pederasts, a tradition they inherited from the Greeks with whom they share 90% of DNA
>>2895448Based and dadpilled
>>2895358he works at the university at gent in belgium btw
>>2895461I believe the soviets had their own versions. I really like this one:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ZIL-111Crazy how they could build good cars just did not feel like mass-producing them. Shame.
>>2895548This is such wank, why is the "atheist" even entertaining this shit
Venezuela abandons Nicolás Maduro to fate in US jail - financial times
Venezuela’s government made no mention of freeing jailed ex-president Nicolás Maduro during nearly two weeks of talks with the opposition this month, in the clearest sign yet that the regime has abandoned him to the US justice system.
Interim president Delcy Rodríguez in January called the US capture and exfiltration of Maduro and his wife Cilia Flores a case of “vile aggression”. Her brother, leader of Venezuela’s parliament, said they “will not rest” until he is released from a Brooklyn jail cell, where he faces drug-trafficking charges.
But Rodríguez’s US-backed government surprised the opposition by not even raising those demands during the five negotiating sessions, which concluded last week, several people present told the FT.
“Maduro and Flores simply do not exist at the negotiating table,” said one opposition figure. “They have erased them from history.”
The US government has backed Rodríguez, Maduro’s vice-president, since its commandos snatched the autocratic leader in a brazen night-time raid on January 3. In return, she has opened up the country’s vast natural resources to overseas investors, giving US companies access to its oil reserves.
The first round of negotiations with the opposition was intended to agree on steps for a new presidential election but yielded few concrete results.
The two sides focused on how to fund the recovery from June’s devastating earthquakes, demanding the repatriation of some $4bn of gold bullion stored in Bank of England vaults. They also agreed to start working to reform the justice system.
After the talks concluded, the government said it had released 131 political prisoners, though rights group Foro Penal said they could only verify that at least 78 had been freed.
But such a fate did not seem to be on the cards for Maduro, whom life-long revolutionary socialist Rodríguez once called Venezuela’s “one and only” president, analysts said.
As far as the government is concerned, “his fate is already sealed”, said Edward Rodríguez, a Venezuelan analyst and consultant. “They’ll let the case run its course while they focus on their only priority: survival.”
Rodríguez was initially forthright in demanding Maduro’s release straight after his capture as she consolidated the support of hardliners in the security services. But she has since replaced top military leaders with her own supporters, while powerful security chief Diosdado Cabello has also abruptly drawn closer to Washington.
Signs and billboards calling for the pair’s release were erected in cities across Venezuela in January; many have since been taken down. Pro-Maduro murals painted before his arrest have been scrubbed over. Just a handful of oversized portraits of the deposed first couple remain in Caracas.
Rodríguez, whose succinct public speeches mark a break with Maduro’s folksy and fiery diatribes, seldom mentions her old boss during public appearances — including in her speech after the talks ended.
But Maduro, the handpicked heir to the revolutionary socialist project of the late president Hugo Chávez, continues to inspire support from hardcore Chavistas, as supporters of the movement are known.
“I disagree with these talks, because Trump cannot be allowed to keep imposing things on us while the agreement does not even mention the president who was kidnapped,” said Ricardo García, a grassroots Chavista who, like many loyalists, believes Maduro was betrayed by members of his inner circle and handed over to US forces.
>>2895645B-but I thought Delcy was a based anti-imperialist AES agent…
>>2895645>Venezuela abandons Nicolás Maduro to fate in US jail - financial times wtf they are supposed to do
>>2895747the question is:
wtf would anyone believe what the western media says.
at this right moment the strait of hormuz is open if it were for them.
Thoughts on Professor Jiang, the Chinese YouTuber who claims to be able to predict historical events using game theory? Genius or charlatan?
>>2895773obviously charlatan? lol
>>2895773>game theoryBourgeois nonsense
>>2895779t. Trofim Lysenko
The new Colombian president rejected disaster relief from Brazil and Mexico for being "leftist countries" and said he will only accept help from El Salvador, Israel and the US
>>2895793maybe that will teach his voters a lesson, probably not
>>2895773>ProfessorI'd say teacher. He only taught at the 'moonlight academy' a K-12 school (from 6 years of primary to 5 years of high school and one optional year for technical courses). who started to call him 'professor' is beyond me. this guy knows about history and philosophy as your average district school teacher.
and it wasn't hard to make the prediction that trump woulda won, after the horrible debate between biden and trump where biden literally showed cognitive problems. then kamala self-impossed as the candidate without being challenged.
>>2895786And just like lysenko I'm right
uyghas really exchanged Gustavo Petro for some Temu version of Trump. WTF is wrong with rightoids
Also calling Brazil a "leftist country" because we happened to elect a socdem president is wild
Lula is an once in a generation figure, once he dies the left in this country is fucked
>>2895798he was asked it on some podcast and said he knows he is not a professor, but professor is a title in china and he accepts it because other people call him that. but that's a cop out tbh.
I find a godlitmus test of how smart someone is their opinion on avant-garde art. Unintelligent people don't understand abstract stuff
>>2895871The avant-garde is merely experimental
Abstract art is representational
>>2895871Do you not think there's any examples of 'avant garde' just being pretentious bullshit though?
>>2895895Yes, I'm talking about the people who talk shit about "modern art" (as if it's not an extremely broad term) and think hyperrealism is the best thing ever. Same people who like AI art.
>>2895900fuck anon just outed himself as a pseud 😩
>>2895898If someone says, I hate all 'modern art' then yeah I guess they are a dumbass philistine most likely. But I would say that a large amount of abstract art is kind of bullshit and doesn't look that good. Not all by any means but a large amount. Especially when it involves human participants or other crazy showmanship.
>>2895902I guess art with human performers isn't really 'abstract' but you know what I mean, the kind of bullshit where someone smothers themselves in cake and wails or whatever.
>>2895747kidnap trump and do a hostage trade
>>2895964The "Israelis" are 95% Arab Palestinians 5% refusers. Maki and the Palestinian People's Party are essentially one party split across two states.
>>2895964This is a dig at the KKE how?
>>2896056because they didn't delcare a gonzaloist PPW in the west bank
>>2895964>>2896055>>2896064Also if you ask any Palestinian from the WB they will tell you PPP = PFLP. They are not organisationally the same but in terms of the arab street the supporters and lay members are the same.
>>2896047any time soon the strait is open, son.
>>2895964This kills hitlerite nationalists
>>2896494Maduro still ain't coming out of jail bro.
is it true Hasan's brother works for the military?
>>2896540If the comment section is anything to go by it's pretty good
>>2896743Lots of thoughtful and radical responses.
The yankees are gonna be alright!
>>2894524marx was a good scholar by 19th century standards, but there were no formal academic standards and significant impediments on accessing information.
>american revolution was progressive19th century progressives were in favor of the colonisation of palestine from the barbarous arabs and invented eugenics. If we use modern scholarship and apply the razor of historical materialism the american revolution was reactionary, jacobinite anti monarchism be damned.
BE is based on this one. It's reductive and disrespectful to Marx and his revolutionary ideas to treat him as a lefty messiah, every successful revolutionary has had way harsher critiques of colonialism and imperialism than Karl did.
>>2896754>If we use modern scholarship and apply the razor of historical materialism the american revolution was reactionaryIt was neither tbh. A lateral move. The British were roughly the same as the colonial ruling class on pretty much every issue, including slavery, colonialism, and bourgeois rule.
>>2896752The left in Iran is anti-regime too
>>2896747Mossad give me sexy Iranian goth gf plz
>>2896758what are the material facts?
the british were more pragmatic than the usraelis, they didn't want to get bogged down providing military cover for usraeli settlers and ultimately left due to escalating usraeli terrorism. the terror was funded and coordinated by wealthy patrons that stood to profit from the stolen land. after the british ceded control the genocide of the indigenous population accellerated.
sounds pretty reactionary to me. cope harder.
>>2896765the more westernised iranians in tehran are the ones that trump and bibi bombed because the war is 100% motivated by genocidal bloodlust and -100% motivated by the liberal dream of spreading pepsi and planned parenthood to the furthest regions of the earth.
>>2896777Planned Parenthood is based doe
>>2896774>the british were more pragmatic than the usraelisPragmatism is a matter of perspective. The Royal Proclamation of 1763 (the document that banned expansion West of the Appalachians without royal permission) was pragmatic from the perspective of the government in London that had a global empire to run. It was a way to shore up British holdings in America while they turned their imperialist attentions elsewhere. Immediate westward expansion was more pragmatic for the colonists who had a growing, land hungry society in constant conflict with natives and didn't give a shit about British imperial interests on the other side of the world. Neither are really progressive.
>they didn't want to get bogged down providing military cover for usraeli settlers and ultimately left due to escalating usraeli terrorismOnly because they had growing colonial interests elsewhere, mainly India.
>after the british ceded control the genocide of the indigenous population accelleratedThe British committed genocide against Indigenous North Americans in Canada, it was just less violent because Canada was more sparsely populated and the natives were less capable of resisting. Whenever they did resist (e.g. Red River Rebellion) they were dealt with just as harshly. They still stole their land, herded them into concentration camps, and tried to eradicate them as a people. Continued British rule would have at most delayed Westward expansion, but it was an inevitability.
American independence also arguably hastened the end of slavery in the Northern states, which begun abolishing it decades before Britain did in their colonies. There was a roughly 40 year period where enslaved Africans in Canada could escape to freedom by fleeing to the US. Whatever differences existed on these issues were pretty insignificant, and at most sped up or slowed down otherwise inevitable developments by a few decades.
>>2896781>The Royal Proclamation of 1763 (the document that banned expansion West of the Appalachians without royal permission) was pragmatic from the perspective of the government in London that had a global empire to run. It was a way to shore up British holdings in America while they turned their imperialist attentions elsewhere. From what I understand the U.K. was also going broke from fighting France and Spain and didn't want the colonists blowing up the situation in the North America and starting a big war with the natives.
>>2896779no it isn't. it's a neoliberal NGO that was founded by a eugenecist and let the pseudo left in america kick the can down the road on both reproductive rights and womens health. in developed nations these services are covered by the state two-payer or single-payer healthcare system. in the hick empire they're siloed off and run semi-independently from the state to appease religious zealots and act as a sword of damocles over half the population.
libs could have made planned parenthood redundant in the 90s. they didn't. now america's perpetually exploited and abused women are paying for it.
>>2896784That's correct, but it wasn't because they actually cared about the Natives or considered them equals or anything. They were just overstretched and needed to conserve resources, so they made agreements with the Indigenous nations bordering their colonies in North America. They begun breaking these agreements themselves shortly after the Napoleonic Wars when their position was more secure.
>>2896787He did abolish slavery thoughever. Spain also wasn't like Britain. It was a thoroughly feudal and aristocratic state, whereas Britain had already had a bourgeois revolution and was steadily becoming more bourgeois. The Latin American revolutions actually did represent a seizure of power by an emerging colonial bourgeoisie at the expense of the Spanish aristocracy.
>>2896777>planned parenthoodrightoids try not to be weird challenge: impossible
>>2896799Bitch your name is literally bloodgasm
>>2896794>He did abolish slavery thoughever. a trifle. the indigenous getting genocided and their lands stolen make them more oppressed than slaves. Francisco de Miranda literally modelled the latam independence movement using british america as an example, making the whole idea thoroughly reactionary
>>2896799I had a lot of respect for her. It sucks shes a typical woman that lives her torture porn. I bet she loves true crime podcasts.
>>2896806>thoroughly reactionaryReactionary isn't a synonym for bad or morally reprehensible. From a strict Marxist perspective it isn't reactionary to supplant pre-capitalist relations with capitalist ones, even if colonialism is morally despicable.
>>2896810Tribal pre-society is less exploitive and more progressive than capitalism.
>>2896599who says he will. but not because of Venezuela.
>>2896809>I had a lot of respect for her. It sucks shes a typical womanjust wait until you have an actual relationship
>>2896799>do you consider consumer of the genre (gore)>I can't help thinking about how videos about Palestine will change this genre (gore)what a stupid thing to think about. holly fuck.
>>2896781>rejects my material analysis<credits 18th century slaveowner revolution with 19th century abolitionism in the civil war periodthe materialist explanation for abolition is the invention of the cotton gin. this is supported by economic data and primary sources that show "progressive" libs arguing for abolition because they're worried about getting blacked. you're making a moralist consequentialist argument that's completely irrelevant.
>>2896787>"american leftist">react this way to nationalist creation myth being questionedcurious.
leftypol legit getting worse.
>>2896830>more progressiveBy definition it isn't. It leads inevitably to class society. The only way to transcend it is industrialized communism.
>>2896841<credits 18th century slaveowner revolution with 19th century abolitionism in the civil war periodNorthern states began abolishing slavery in the 18th century, decades before Britain did in its colonies. To call the American War of Independence a "slave owner's revolution" ignores the fact that Britain also relied on slavery and American independence actually ended it faster in the north. Again, it was for the most part a lateral move.
>>2896841>worried about getting blackedgo back to pol
>>2896845the only information the revolutionaries had was that slavery was abolished in england. no abolitionists signed the declaration of independence, fought the war, contributed to the constitution, or held office in the republican government. even if they were this doesn't excuse the genocide. you might as well credit shitler and ᴉuᴉlossnW for ending european colonialism faster.
>>2896842marx was wrong about all that. the indigenous have a right to their land and marxism needs to be updated to reflect that fact. all north and south american independence boiled down to was one inhuman desire: more efficient extermination of the natives
>>2896853>the only information the revolutionaries had was that slavery was abolished in englandIf they were fighting to preserve slavery then why would half of them immediately begin abolishing it?
>no abolitionists signed the declaration of independence, fought the war, contributed to the constitution, or held office in the republican governmentClearly some did or northern states wouldn't have begun abolishing slavery so quickly.
>even if they were this doesn't excuse the genocideWhich the British were also engaging in and continued to engage in with their remaining North American colonies. You gotta understand that I'm not crediting the Americans with anything or saying they were more progressive than Britain. I'm saying they were the same and it didn't matter.
>"Treaties are unconstrained Acts of independent pow-ers." But the Indians were never regarded as an independent power. A civilized nation first discovering a country of uncivilized people or savages held such country as its own until such time as by treaty it was transferred to some other civilized nation. The savages' rights of sovereignty even of ownership were never recognized. Nova Scotia had passed to Great Britain not by gift or purchase from or even by conquest of the Indians but by treaty with France, which had acquired it by priority of discovery and ancient possession; and the Indians passed with it.
Here's your "progressive" British Empire bro.
>>2896854Bolivar and Jefferson were both bourgeois criminals, slavers and bloodsuckers
>>2896872Bolivar did give slaves independence at once during the independence struggle, a move that met resistance, though not because of him. he also freed all the slaves he himself owned.
As for colonial independence, whatever act, any act, of self-determintion that occurred during that era is considered historically progressive.
gtfo.
>>2896884Slavery wasn't fully eradicated until over twenty years after bolivars death. Had he not initiated the illegal war on Spain, slavery would have in fact been abolished sooner, like in Haiti, an example of an actual progressive independence movement
>>2896799>>2896809ngl this has gotta be like the least surprising e-celeb twist I ever saw, she always came across as a fuckin weirdo
>>2896860I think the only abolitionist associated with the revolution was benjamin franklin but he's the exception that proves the rule:
<owned slaves<profited from them immensely and directly<only stood on principle when he was already weathy and retired<had no motion and nothing happened
>after the revolution half of them moved to abolish slaverycalling bullshit
>>2896864>british continued genocide in the colonies>here's your "progressive" british empireI said pragmatic silly billy. I have made no excuse for their other crimes, just that england pumping the brakes on the indian wars pissed off usraeli settlers.
>>2896884>bolivar freed the slavessilly bugger he should have waited 100 years then implemented segregation like the certified marxist white settlers in the USA.
>>2896896>Had he not initiated the illegal war on Spain>getting independence from colonial rule is illegal.you just outed all Palestinian struggle as illegal.
>mfw we have a nationalistoid spaniatard ITT.how's that 20th-21st irrelevancy going, canijo.
>>2896908palestine launched a legal war against their colonial oppressors to retrieve their stolen land. Spanish american settlers revolted to better efficiently steal indigenous land and genocide/assimilate their extensive populations, which made it an illegal war. its outrageous to compare the two in any way
>>2896921Engels curbstomped stirner and would prolly curbstomp you too faggot. Also castro and lenin had law degrees
>>2896920>there is little focus on the future or on deeper reflection.I mean no shit. That's been obvious for centuries, but especially since like Reagan the right hasn't even attempted to legitimately justify itself intellectually.
>>2896924lsiten here, you spaniatard. "When tyranny becomes law, rebellion is a right.". when the stupid spanish crown decided to impose suffocating taxes on the colonies to finance their stupid wars with britain and france, when the iberian peninsula decided that every goddamn viceroyalties in the colonies must be governed by people born in the peninsula, when they created a fucking racist 'caste' system, when they decided that the law about Indigenous people was symbolic, they lost all legalities over the territories.
stfu, and gtfo.
>>2896937its just schizo politics. i get what
>>2896920 means, there is this incel guy i used to work with. he self described as an incel. and his facebook is interesting to watch because of how schizophrenic train wreck it is, he'd post something vaguely leftist populist like jeremy Corbin. a george carlin meme about religion being stupid, post one about how japan is trad and red pilled. then something about how christianity is based.
>>2896939Bolivar, the aristocratic noble, inherited and subsisted off the wealth of his vast family estate acquired through the rape and murder of millions. His genocidal intentions were clear from the start, he was a blight on history in even worse ways than churchill by setting back the cause of abolition for decades by being deferential to his Landlord Masters
>>2896838Ive been in multiple.
Women just have a slave mindset from millenia of exploitation.
They crave vile shit.
>>2895964Wait, are we supposed to be hating this?
>>2896997Yes and I can't believe people on here aren't.
>>2897089Why do you hate communist 48ers?
>>2897099BECAUSE NOBODY SHOULD IDENTIFY AS "ISRAELI" OMFG, AND SUPPORTING THE TWO STATE "SOLUTION" MAKES YOU A COLONIALIST DOG. "Israel" is only going to be defeated when "Israeli socialists" start identifying as Palestinian like what Fanon was talking about.
>>2897105Nobody is identifying to anything, the bourgeois divided the world with stupid nation states, those workers just were born there and got stuck with this stupid citizenship instead of another one
>>2897105>Because le names and signifiersIdealism.
It's besides the point anyway because Palestinians in israel are not even allowed to call themselves palestinian, they have to call themselves "israeli arabs" or "arab citizens of israel", let alone allowed organize something like the palestinian communist party
>SUPPORTING THE TWO STATE "SOLUTION" MAKES YOU A COLONIALIST DOGMaybe, afaik they consider the israelis to be too racist and economically powerful to be able to form a unified state with them, so they advocate for palestinian independence atm, with the goal of eventually forming a binational state. I agree that one state solution would be better
>>2897116this. speaking among themselves with their own people they know theyre palestinian. they're also not stupid and live under a tyranny so they have to identify in public as 'israeli' Arab unless they want to get banged up for 20 years, have their families hunted down, and their lives destroyed.
>they should just sacrifice like lenin and mao did! >they should go to prison and organize an armed revolution inside the prison cells! Unique IPs: 204