https://theconversation.com/how-the-u-s-could-in-fact-make-canada-an-american-territory-246877
<In one treaty, the U.S. annexed the present-day states of California, Nevada, Utah, New Mexico, Arizona, Colorado, Oklahoma, Kansas and Wyoming. It subsequently illegally invaded Indigenous territory in the west.
>Canada could be next — perhaps not immediately as the 51st state, but quite possibly as a U.S. territory that would deny Canadians any voting rights for Congress or the presidency, allow only some autonomy and make questions of citizenship ambiguous. The constitutional architecture exists in the U.S. to make it happen.
<That’s the wrong reading. How Trump could make good on the threat can be found in the U.S. Constitution. There is both potential and precedent for the U.S. to acquire territory through cession or subjugation.what is the chance this happens in practice? How does NATO figure into this?
>>2109380Well, first, the whole of Canada wouldn't be a 51st state. They would annex each Canadian state.
Second, it isn't going to happen. Canada is gonna get govern by trumpoids after Trudeau. So Canada is likely gonna enter in a special socio-economic structure with the US. With a shared army. Apart from NATO.
>>2109380>what is the chance this happens in practice?It seems unlikely since it would be extremely and unnecessarily disruptive. It would alienate America's allies and neutral countries, win Trump no political favours, and create a long term political headache for no real gain. Even if it did go ahead I can't see the next dem president seriously putting in the effort to maintain it. It could happen, but honestly even if he ordered a takeover I'm not confident that the military would even go along with it.
>How does NATO figure into this?It doesn't. I'm sure the rest of NATO would protest but Europe is basically completely disarmed. They need the Americans to stay because they literally can't defend themselves.
>>2109432Quebec at least would have to be a separate state if they didn't want to be dealing with constant unrest over language rights. That means that the maritime provinces would probably be their own state as well since they would be split off from the rest of Canada. The western provinces would probably push hard to be their own state too since their heads would explode if all their policies were dictated by Ontario. If the Americans wanted to be able to actually govern the country without issue then they would need at least 4 states.
>>2148709If they continue this simping behaviour instead of taking a strong stance in favour of Canadian independence then they will probably lose, or at least get stuck with a minority government. Honestly the fact that our right have been such suckups to the Americans even after this could seriously damage their long term prospects. Personally if I were PM I'd invoke section 33 of the constitution and make it illegal to advocate for annexation, then crack down hard on them. Vidrel. I'd also probably start looking into a nuclear deterrent and security cooperation with Russia and China, but ofc no spineless lib politician would ever do that.
>>2148710They're not feigning it, people would be pissed. Nobody here wants to be part of the US except for a handful of right wing schizos, and even ordinarily right leaning military types have been talking openly of armed resistance. Whether they would meaningfully resist and to what extent though is another question.
>>2148716>It seems unlikely since it would be extremely and unnecessarily disruptive.<Skullfucking and looting the western hemisphere (and perhaps other places as well) ensuring the US becomes the largest country on the planet, with the largest oil, gas and mineral reserves, a working age population rivaling China, and 95% surrounded by oceanvs
<Letting American power decline in order to prop up recalcitrant shitlib never-Trump eurocrats and Canadians who try keep out American businesses with regulations and tariffs, whilst letting the Chinese squeeze out what's left of American market share and soft powerThat's the play here. It's obviously very disruptive, but what are the Europeans going to do, send strongly worded letters and condemn the US at the UN?
>>2148734They only really need the resources. That's what, Alberta? The Ring of Fire? Add in Greenland, and there's still barely anyone living in those territories compared to the rest of the US.
I don't think they care about allies anymore. What's happening in America is the formation of a "open terrorist dictatorship of the most reactionary, most chauvinistic and most imperialist elements of finance capital" as described by Dimitrov. With the caveat that tech/industry are also onboard with this.
America's interests are the interests of it's ruling class. Who explicitly want this. Like who among them is seriously opposing this? Mark Cuban?
>>2148790>>2148766Canada wouldn't be annexed as states, they would be unorganized territories like american samoa. Former canadian citizens would be therefore US nationals not US citizens and would not have the right to participate in federal elections or govern themselves instead a territorial governor would be appointed to rule them.
I.e. canada would become a colony of the US not part of it.
you're high if you think they will give Canadians the right to vote
>>2109438The population of New England is 15 million yet they get 6 states
Canada is basically an extension of the Northeast
>>2149059We're coming for you beaver boy.
🦫🔫🦅
>>2148766>>2148863>b-but C-Copenobody cares, literally.
The collapse of the US Empire will inevitably involve a series of COPES & ACCEPTANCES.
The Canada vs. USA war WILL become real!
>>2211183Speaking of canada
How true is it that those bumfuck nowhere middle of hell lumberjacks earn fat cash
It became sort of a crazy among balkan blue collars, sort of like malta was about 5-10y ago
>>2211204They can make pretty good money but at most they're gonna be like upper middle class, definitely not porky territory. It's also not just lumberjacks but heavy resource extraction industries in general. Miners and oil patch workers can get paid really well.
>>2211219Canada has cheaper towns too but the difference is that there's only three large cities in the entire country.
>>2211222Its a
>work 2years and full family can immigrateDeal
>>2211025>why would canadians even fight for Canada?I think the real question is whether Americans will fight for America. The only people that are all-in on the 51st State stuff are Trumpers. If it came down to a draft, I can see a lot of those guys being fragged or shot in the back by their own men. And I think a lot of Americans would defect and fight alongside the Canadians.
>>2211125>young canadians would be retarded to fight for a country that has denied their generation the ability to own a homeAnd what are young Canadians going to gain? The same inequality plus having conservative Christian retardation shoved down their throats. Only a literal brainlet would even *want* to be an American at this point.
>>2211430>access to better jobsLike what?
>cheaper rentWhere? In some shithole red state that's been bleeding population for years because nobody wants to live there?
>not to mention warmer places to live?The vast majority of Canada isn't Nunavut or the NWT.
>>2211635There would definitely be a fight if the Americans botched our integration, which they would because they're retarded and despite the cultural similarities have no concept of this countries internal tensions or dynamics. Like I get the meme that people can't usually even tell leafs and burgers apart, but again you could have said the same thing about Ukrainians and Russians or literally any two former Yugoslav ethnicities. It didn't stop them from killing each other.
It's not so much that people would initially be willing to do armed resistance as a result of whatever changes would come from annexation. We are soft firsties after all. However people would absolutely be willing to engage in other forms of resistance like blockades, boycots, strikes, political action, demonstrations, etc. These would inevitably be severely repressed which could cause the situation to escalate. Even a small armed resistance movement would likely cause a heavy handed response, random doors being kicked in etc. It would start us down the insurgency feedback loop of counterinsurgency feeding anger which breeds insurgency.
>>2211722>>2211729yeah, sorry leaf… im just not buying it. These ridiculous articles of "oh america failed in vietnam/afghanistan so it will fail in canada". You cannot compare a mujahideen whos been living in a wartorn country since the 1980s, one of the poorest countries on earth in a rural village whos parents are opium farmers, who is a religious fanatic who thinks if you blow up the infidels you get 72 virgins, to a canadian middle class middle aged person in a detached single family home drinking sparkling water netflix watching soft ass firstie who probably barely believes in God. Canadians are in no way ready to suffer even on the level the iraqis did in 2003, let alone the vietnamese or afghans.
you really think fucking Pierre Poilievre is going to dig a tunnel underground like the vietcong and live with worms and snakes while polishing an AK? You think canadians are willing to sacrifice 3-4 million civilians for independence like the vietnamese? give me a fucking break.
>>2212414stop deflecting and answer the question, if you can
>On what basis do you think US military assets would roll across the Canadian border?paint a picture, create a scenario
>>2212523not only does Canada’s energy sector depend on U.S. owned tech for extraction, but the only factories that are set up to process the crude oil sands in Alberta happen to be in America
This is really the only pressure point America needs. Without Electricity the Canadians will break.
>>2212526Who? Who are these friends of Canada? The EU already dismissed the possibility of it joining the EU. The only reason why Canada's energy sector exists because of American buyers. Not even American oil and gas exports were enough to satisfy Europe's rising energy needs from the Ukraine crisis, what makes silly Canadians think they have a shot?
Of course all this goes out the window if Carney does a 180 and embraces communist China. Then anything's possible.
Everyone on both sides of my family French-Canadian & Italian hunts. It would not be the cake-walk burgers itt make it out to be…
Pretty much everyone I know hunts, no I don't live in some village in northern Ontario…>>2212911Inshallah.
>>2213610>a rising empire annexing a tiny, non-white island kingdom thousands of kilometers from the mainland in the era of European colonialism vs
>a declining empire annexing a massive, industrialized country right next door with tens of millions of people in a post-colonial eraClear and obvious differences. I'm not saying that the burgers would fail even if they don't go about this sensibly. However even in a best case scenario at the very least they're annexing a long term headache. Worst case scenario it turns into an actual empire-ending military quagmire. Most Americans aren't even in support of this, and if Canada puts up any significant resistance post-annexation then there will be virtually no popular political will to continue.
>>2213615>The country is so mindfucked by the US culturally and civilizationally that they would just let them inThat's not true at all. Opposition to annexation is pretty much universal, even among most right wingers. Canadian military social media has been abuzz for a while now with memes about scalping American occupiers and the like.
>>2219696bullshit
canadians will fit in crakkka society just fine
>>2148760You should read Marx if you believe this
>Stalinoid<Reading MarxO yea that’s impossible never mind
Praise the Fatherland
And the proletarian races
>>2220008>>2220017Trump can easily make Canada an unorganized territory instead of a state and thats historically how most acquisitions of land happened - becoming a state is usually a process that takes years if not decades.
Canada will be an unorganized territory with no right to self governance and a territorial governor will simply be appointed by the president, and canadian former citizens will be designated US nationals rather than us citizens (see, for example, american samoa) and therefore unable to vote in federal elections.
<U.S. nationals:<Owe allegiance to the U.S.<Can live and work in the U.S.<Cannot vote in federal elections.<Cannot hold certain federal jobs or run for elected federal office.>This status is rooted in the Insular Cases (early 1900s), a series of deeply controversial Supreme Court decisions that said the Constitution doesn't “fully apply” in unincorporated U.S. territories—only “fundamental rights” do. >>2220896In practice the position of the GG is entirely ceremonial, and all political power rests with the elected Parliament. People will definitely notice and resent the actual imposition of arbitrary authority by a foreign government.
>>2220355At least the Russians had the decency to recognize the annexed regions of Ukraine as official oblasts rather than this bullshit.
>>2221276Vance and Elon could deal with it instead of Trump personally
Elon went to the University of Waterloo after all so Trump would tap him for his Canadian knowledge or some shit
>>2221539That had nothing to do with Great Depression. In fact USSR benefited from it, because the cappies were willing to sell even advance technology to commies just to sell something and not go broke.
What the hell collectivization even has to do with economic depression? Collectivization was their plan all along, they just needed time for industry to build up and make it possible. Oe did you think any kind of serious development was possible with small land individual peasants? No, you cannot industrialize fully without intensifying agriculture.
>>2109380My instinct is to dismiss it as fear-mongering, but these are such anomalous times and Trump might be just crazy enough I'm prepared to not rule anything out.
I would have to imagine that when the democrats get win the next election (which they almost certainly will as voters rush to a imagined "return to normalcy" after Trumps depredations) they will undo as much of Trump's craziness as they possibly can and go on a worldwide apology tour. That would mean returning Canada to the Canadians if it ever happened. Again, that's a very dubious possibility
>>2246052>Liberals shouldn't seethe over it too because Canadians vote far left compared to the average burger.yea bro, im so sure trump is gonna give canada a vote. im sure it won't be like puerto rico at all where they literally do not get a choice in who their ruler is and almost always get left out of any conversations involving america.
you can also be sure that IF they even get an electoral college vote, it will be extremely minimal and will not reflect the actual number of votes in the region.
Trump is seeking a third term. You need to flip your brain online and realize he's not doing shit fairly. Canada WOULD vote left and bring in left leaning candidates from then on, which is why Canada will be given the puerto rico treatment.
>>2246106Puerto Rico was colonized in the 19th century (still very much still in colonial history) and its population is 1/12 of Canada. We're not going to invade Canada obviously, it's far more likely well have to die for Israel or something.
Trump being a bonapartist doesn't at all matter when his approval is sub 40% after 3 months in office, and he has 0 military support. Go consume MSNBC more shitlib.
>>2246099But Canadians speak English and are majority White. That's the unofficial rule that a state only gets statehood once they become majority White. Hawaii, Alaska, Oklahoma etc.
I don't know about those Quebecois tho. We don't want to have to put French on all our signs and shit. Fucking Frenchies.
>oooh la la I can not remember that Nord = North and Est = East! >>2246118so does Engels
>>2246053I also liked his plan to build 10 new Freedom Cities, but that's increasingly looking like 10 new data centers for OpenAI.
>>2246108>he doesn't realize that trump doesn't care what his approval rating is>he doesn't realize that what trump wants and what trump is able to do are different thingsit doesnt matter if trump is actually capable of making a land grab for canada. we are discussing what happens if he does.
I'm also not entirely sure his approval rating actually matters for this. He's in charge of the military. we bombed the fuck out of iraq for blatent lies, we can do it again in canada.
>>2246119Plurality White.
<Hawaii's people are of many races. No single race is in the majority. Re-cent figures show 38 percent of the population is Caucasian; 28 percent is of Japanese descent and the remainder includes Hawaiian, Chinese, Filipino, Korean and many other races.
>Although unlike the rest of the country it has actually been getting whiterMaybe in recent years slightly I dunno, but it is certainly a lot lower than the peak. 38% to 25% is a big drop.
>>2246125> trump is able to dotrump cant even commit to tariffs on China. DOGE is a massive failure. He's managed to fuck over trans people somewhat ig.
You seem actually deranged.
>>2246156The sphere of malthusian has literally nothing to do with anything I just say. I don’t even know why you mentioned that.
>>2246159This is the first time I’ve spoken in this thread.
Let's talk about Canada. Let's talk about the real truth: Canada is not a democracy in the same way America is a democracy. Now, this might be a bit of a shock to some of you.
America is a constitutional republic. We don't have kings and queens on our money. We don't have kings and queens on our money. Do we? I mean, you can pull out your wallet right now-take out a few dollars. Do you see a king or a queen? Do you see a crown on that money? No, you don't. That's because America defeated the monarchy. We forged freedom, independence, and liberty-the pursuit of happiness, fundamental aspects of the American dream.
But Canada? On the other hand, Canada is still a monarchy. They're the ones who burned the White House down in the War of 1812-burned it to the ground. The White House standing today? Not the original. The original structure was destroyed in the name of the monarchy, in the name of the Crown, in the name of the royalty that still embodies their system-still plastered on their money. The White House was destroyed in the name of Canada.
So what does that tell you about our supposed allies up north? What does that say about the flood of fentanyl pouring in through their unsecured borders? And what does it say about the age-old grudge they've held against us for defeating the monarchy?
How can we be allied with people who uphold the very thing our Founding Fathers rebelled against? Think about it. We defeated the monarchy. We rejected the king. We threw off tyranny. And yet, right next to us, there's an entire country-just as large as America, bordering Russia to the north-that worships the monarchy like it's some sacred religion. And they claim to be our allies? How true can that really be?
And what happens when China comes rolling in? What happens when the CCP marches through? Canada has strong ties to the Chinese Communist Party. They have deep loyalty to the monarchy. They burned our White House down. And worse-they've got resources that will either go to Canada (and by extension, China) or be used to extend American liberty and freedom. Something Canadians simply aren't equipped to handle, given their allegiance to a crown.
And that, my friends, is why you should be very cautious around Canadians. You should be wary of any alliances, any media collaborations, any so-called "partnerships" with them. They are not like us. As Kendrick Lamar said: "They are not like us." They are worshippers of the Crown. We are the rebukers of the Crown.
You can't support liberty and support Canada. You can't stand for America and bow to the Crown, to the CCP. And if you support Canada, you must support the monarchy. To stand with Canada is to stand against America. There's no simpler way to put it.
>>2246207>Malthusianism is about “over population”.because of resources being linear and population growth being exponential. What do you think the term 'over'populated is in reference to, itself?
So we can't ever build under a republican president because it might be somewhat wasteful?
>>2246204>Canada is not a democracy in the same way America is a democracy.america is not a true democracy either. your vote literally doesn't matter depending on your state, or it matters WAY more than others.
also, if youre gonna bring up canada burning down the white house in order to paint canada as the bad guys, then id say the many monuments to slave owners we have here, and the fact that we burned down what belonged to the people who lived here before us in order to be here ourselves are a good balance to that. either the past matters, or the past does. if the past doesn't matter, then who cares that they burnt down the white house? if the past DOES matter, then we deserved it because we murdered the previous owners in order to claim the land to begin with, making us the bad guys.
>>2246221> he's angry about the brandingman you liberals are indistinguishable from the fascist right, you only care about aesthetics.
Go goon to some trains or something idk.
>>2246214>What do you think the term 'over'populated is in reference to, itself?Exactly what it says on the tin dumbass. Too many people.
>So we can't ever build under a republican president because it might be somewhat wasteful?>>2246215>like this is so stupid and partisan brained I really don't know what to say. Is leftypol infested with shitlibs lately?I am dealing with the unserious right now.
>>2246125Best case scenario, and this is absolutely best case and even then its still wildly unrealist. Is that trumps war with canada becomes his Ukraine. Thats if he has a bunch of secret miliary factories tucked away somewhere and still manages to maintain enough power and support in the middle of rolling black outs and food riots. Canada isnt iraq its right next door and the U.S empire isnt going to be able to pull off the
>worry not citizens, consuming wins the war here while our boys and girls win the war over thereThe last war absent of treats for the American people was like the civil war. Going to be hard to convince americans to be living like extras in cold mountain to kill our neighbors north. I wont doubt trumps stupidity but I doubt he could even get the support to launch an invasion in the first place. If he did the most likely outcome would be a rapid descent into civil war. One where I guess Trump and a random assortment of states with populations less than some counties in L.A. States that are in the middle of multiple crisis, bird flu, measle outbreaks, tainted milk, yearly climate disasters, collapsing expensive car centric infustructure and likely facing their own internak civil wars. So trump and lets say Texas and Florida successfully maintain Christian shria law in the cities and keep the infustructure running. Itll be that, Israel and the trump state vs the whole world.
>>2246233Liberals actually believe Trump will fuck over every major US-Canada multinational over a war 60 miles from our border and turn Toronto into Baghdad.
This is what happens when you have no understanding of Capital Acummulation.
>>2246243> Too many peopleI see so overpopulation is when the number reaches
THE BAD NUMBER (undefined) and then its 'over'populated.
Meanwhile Malthus:
> The happiness of a country does not depend, absolutely, upon its poverty, or its riches, upon its youth, or its age, upon its being thinly, or fully inhabited, but upon the rapidity with which it is increasing, upon the degree in which the yearly increase of food approaches to the yearly increase of an unrestricted population.It's because of linear growth of resources you absolute fucking mongrel. Did you fail every class you ever took?
>>2247515>40% of Canadas total GDP is import/export trade with their neighbor to the south and trade with Canada makes up 4% of the American GDPIf the Americans had competent leadership then you'd be right, but they don't. Trump is currently sabotaging trade relations with the entire world, which is obviously hurting their own economy and giving Europe and China a stronger incentive for closer trade relations with Canada.
>It's cute that Canadians still think they're going to have public healthcare yet alone a social safety net in this scenarioBut we won't get them as part of the US either, so what's the incentive to accept annexation?
>>2247687Trump intuits the dialectic:
“Canada and the United States, that would really be something,” he said. “You get rid of that artificially drawn line, and you take a look at what that looks like, and it would also be much better for national security.”
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