>the killing of Brian Thompson>violent and chaotic anti-American student protests>Tesla burnings>violent attacks on pro-life activists and other right-wingers>arson attack on Gov Shapiro's home>multiple assassination attempts on TrumpWe have now entered an American Years of Lead without question.
A very special friend of ours warned us about this months ago and nobody listened.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qda4JY36BBA >>2225251The assertion is extremely stupid and not worth taking the time to refute. No present-day Americans have ever lived through a civil conflict ("low intensity" or otherwise) so they have no frame of reference for what it'd actually be like.
But, needless to say, a few sporadic assassination attempts and arsons is not even in the same ballpark. America was much closer to a Years of Lead scenario in the 60s and 70s, and even that paled in comparison to the real deal.
>>2225047>glowieReally? Here?
You're really under the delusion that there are secret government agents paid to hang around incel forums and keep tabs on what people like you are posting?
LOL, the ego on you. You really see yourself as some "formidable threat" that anyone needs to worry about? Get over yourself, schizo. No one is keeping tabs on ignorant old you.
And no, me thinking that you're crazy does not make me one of these fictitious secret agents, but I won't put it past you to accuse me.
I wish you people could see how ridiculous you seem. How paranoid your worldview is. It isn't warranted in the slightest. No one is out to get us for discussing these things.
But you go ahead and "protect your identity" by not looking at certain websites. Surely you know where you're safe and where you could be "compromised". Conspiratard faggot.
46-year old xennial old hag here.
You have got to be kidding me if you think the "violence" from the past year is anything close to what was going in the so-called USA during the 90s. I lived through it and saw some of the worst of it.
In the 90s we had Ruby Ridge, Waco, the OKC bombing, Ted Kaczynski was out mailing a few packages, Columbine, and many other notorious violent acts which dwarf anything Caleb Maupin is flipping out over. The LA riots happened as a response to police brutality and that uprising was a hell of a lot more chaotic than the George Floyd protests you saw in 2020.
You mentioned abortion. Back in the early 90s there existed an anti-abortion organization called Operation Rescue. It was lead by a total nutjob named Randall Terry (he's still around today, unfortunately) who is notoriously misogynistic, antisemitic, islamophobic, and very, very queerphobic. Operation Rescue would do things like blockade abortion clinic doors and barge in on abortion procedures as they were happening. They would routinely take photos of abortion patients and abortion providers as a means of intimidating them. A short time later, all of those "peaceful" clinic blockades began morphing into Operation Rescue members gunning down abortion doctors and bombing abortion clinics. OR lead to a spinoff group called the Army of God which was behind multiple assassinations of abortion doctors.
Neo-Nazis were also a huge problem in the 90s. Nowadays, younger people think of them as pathetic 4chan trolls but 30 years ago they were actually violent. Neo-Nazi groups actually killed and terrorized Black, Jewish, and immigrant communities. You all think those disgusting A. Wyatt Man cartoons of the Happy Merchant are funny and use them to criticize Israel while back in the day those cartoons were used as calls for actual violence against Jews.
Along the same line, you had the rise of right-wing militias. Conspiracy theories were starting to become mainstream during that time. Alex Jones started creating a following which would arguably become the basis for the Ron Paul movement of the 2000s and the Trump/MAGA movement of today.
So to sum it all up, if you were scared shitless of an "American Years of Lead" starting to foment you'd have a much better case if you had said this in the 90s under the Clinton Administration.
>>2226489<living vicariously through others despite never having a political active moment in their own livesYep, it's a /pol/ack.
Go back, faggot.
>>2225047>you didn't include marx, but instead of mentioning you could, I'll just fedjacket>The social media sites you use are bad for security, but instead of telling you that, I'll just fedjacket>>2224744That said, there should be a more lightweight way to do embedded music than spotify,
This one should work, think I've seen it around:
https://www.scmplayer.net/Also this pastebin has a bunch of resources:
https://pastebin.com/QFHDMrvS >>2226180>Operation RescueInterestingly enough, one could argue the early 90s abortion wars had the potential to trigger an “American Years of Lead”. Feminist comrades (mostly anarcha-feminists and Marxist feminists) actually countered these sick fucks through organized clinic defence. Clinic defence was highly successful, not just because it enabled women to seek abortion care but because it changed the media narrative from “Planned Parenthood vs. Operation Rescue” to “Operation Rescue vs. anarcha-feminist clinic defenders”. Whatever bullshit OR was trying to propagate never fell through because everyone was distracted by the amount of brawls their members would get into with clinic defenders.
Eventually, Clinton killed this by signing the FACE Act which was a bullshit compromise (as always). If FACE is overturned and “rescue” is brought back, you can be sure comrades will show up to hand the “rescuers” what they deserve.
>>2227116I think it’s telling how people on here will say killing “Zionists” is justified but killing cops, landlords, CEOs, etc. isn’t.
Like what is it about Palestine that makes you turn into vicious animals?
>>2227116No, because all that will come from this is more state repression against Palestine activists.
Also, this fucker wasn’t one of us but a white supremacist too.
>>2228344Shocker, politics is not always clear-cut.
Trump is also surrounded by people with ties to the Israeli-far right, his son-in-law for instance.
>>2226405He's being charged with "presidential assassination"??
LOL, what a load of bullshit. Who posted this "news"?
>>2228433I am quite literally the opposite of that. Have you ever seen me promote one those small business allowed ass strikes? There's literally a reading on the list called "No More Fake Strikes" you mongoloid
>>2224881fedjacketing is cringe and so is post-ironic detachment. You can literally find my full name and address if you want dude, cornballs like you HURT our movement.
>>2225047>>TM 31-210 - US Army Improvised Munitions HandbookSorry would you rather dipshits make mustard gas? Should I link you the Anarchist cookbook retard?
>>2227153Nice pastebin anon, I use SCM player on other parts of the site, like this one
https://erikhoudini.com/aquarium It only works on desktop tho.
What Marx would I include in that reading list? The manifesto? If you're on that reading list you've read it already. What of his works are best suited towards the action oriented topic of said reading list? Or can we just say that Marx would be more likely to be seen on a more theory focused reading list, and not a reading list with such classics as "How to Build a First Aid Kit"
>>2226180Thank you. Unfortunately,most of the hysteria is from your generation and the millennials proper.
But you're right that the political circus we have today is very tame compared to back then.
Reddit is acting like we are gonna see a second Holocaust and even using the the word "fascist" too freely for criticising anything just because Donald Trump is back in office
>>2224729I'm much more afraid of a new Palmer Raids/McCarthyism than a Years of Lead.
Hell, it's already happening with the deportations of student activists. This is how the Palmer Raids started: anarchist anti-war and birth control activists (most of them Russian Jews) were rounded up and deported back to Russia for "subversive" activities.
>>2230511You sure? Millennials are acting like zoomers are Hitler Youth 2.0
>>2230516Yet alot of Gen X/Xennials are sympathetic towards Trump.
>>2230519>You sure? Millennials are acting like zoomers are Hitler Youth 2.0I am Millenial and I don't think that Zoomers are more right wing. I think they are more progressive and historical progression is still happening. You guys weren't raised with the same backwards norms we were like were weren't with our parents and so on.
It's the same when certain races get blamed for not falling in line behind the Democrats 100% like Indians.
>>2230533You're one of the few who don't jump into genpol.
Also, I remember back in 2016 when Hillary was losing, the Democrats accused Millennials of being lazy basement dwellers for not voting for her in record numbers.
Then it really good bad around October and November when Hillary lost.
2024 is the same thing.
Progressive liberals talk about empathy and diversity but then crucify you if you don't vote for their officiated candidates or agree with them on all policies.
>>2230550And yet zoomers and boomers get most of the blame.
Even before Trump, I noticed that Gen X conservatives tend to be more harsh and snarky than boomers.
Hell, the people who complained about participation trophies were the ones who grew up with them.
Participation trophies were a thing since the 1920s.
>>2231441The material conditions leading us here should be obvious. The elites—the capitalists and their enablers—have built an entire system predicated on the suffering of others. Their wealth, their power, their yachts and ski trips, all depend on millions of people grinding themselves into dust just to scrape by. These elites have insulated themselves for decades, convincing themselves that their suffering subjects either worship them as "job creators" or fear them as untouchable gods. But what happens when that insulation fails? What happens when those who suffer realize they have nothing left to lose?
Imagine their lives. They can’t go outside without bodyguards. They can’t vacation without paranoia. Every ski instructor, every deckhand, every waiter, every driver—they side-eye them all, wondering who might take their shot. Who might decide, in a moment of desperation, to shove a knife between their ribs? The irony is, for all their power, they’re prisoners of the fear their wealth creates. That’s the reality they live in, and it’s not as comfortable as they’d like you to think.
And still, they dare to call this system sustainable. Look at UnitedHealth’s CEO Andrew Witty, carrying on the legacy of Brian Thompson by openly declaring that “unnecessary care” must be cut for "sustainability reasons." Think about that. Your suffering is their sustainability. Your death is their profit margin. This is the system they fight tooth and nail to preserve—$1 million per member of Congress in 2024 alone, all to make sure nothing changes. That’s blood money, paid to keep the machine running smoothly.
This man who acted at 26 is a product of that machine. Back surgery at 20. Kicked off his parents’ healthcare at 26. Then the shooting. That’s what happens when the policies designed to crush millions finally meet someone who refuses to be crushed. That’s what the Logan’s Run wall represents. He wasn’t supposed to make it. The system was supposed to quietly grind him into a death of despair. Instead, he said, “No. If I’m going out, I’m going out on my terms.” That’s what they fear. That’s what they’ll do anything to suppress.
Rest:
https://erikhoudini.com/#post?id=598203&title=the-state-of-things-the-actions-of-luigi-mangione-have-shifted-the-discourse >>2231351>culture war issues like abortion bans and transgender gender transition laws will trigger civil war not economics>>2231407>Slavery was economics. Abortion and trans issues have nothing to do with economics.Radlib doesn't understand bourgeois social reproduction inside of the the settler country founded by cowboys who killed each other for the right to become middle class by gaining patriarchal ownership of a farmers daughter, so that the real estate title can be transferred from one capitalist to another.
Why is a slutty farmer's daughter such a DANGEROUS THREAT (!!!) to capitalism that their gender freedom must be squashed with the threat of gun violence, such that the trope still exists today even after 50 years since that musical/movie Oklahoma! (1954) was released? Because Amerikkka is still a parasitic genocidal project of raping female breeder slaves…that probably explains why Jeffrey Epstein's Zion-nazi eugenics breeding program was so popular among the PMC at Harvard and MIT
www.readsettlers.org
>>2227421>instead they are training Americans to be more aggressive but not towards any outside enemy but towards itselfWhy haven't Zionists denounced UnitedHealth?
https://www.pennlive.com/crime/2024/12/gov-shapiro-praises-mcdonalds-tipster-condemns-those-who-see-suspect-in-ceo-killing-as-hero.html >>2231441Broken clock, I disagree and dislike Maupin but he's correct. Individualist potlical violence does utlimately does nothing to advance the interests of the working class .
"If we oppose terrorist acts, it is only because individual revenge does not satisfy us. The account we have to settle with the capitalist system is too great to be presented to some functionary called a minister. To learn to see all the crimes against humanity, all the indignities to which the human body and spirit are subjected, as the twisted outgrowths and expressions of the existing social system, in order to direct all our energies into a collective struggle against this system—that is the direction in which the burning desire for revenge can find its highest moral satisfaction."
>>2231606Abortion is literally not an economic issue. It’s a female supremacist issue.
Besides, there are communists who are pro-life and want to see abortion criminalized and replaced by adequate family and childcare.
>>2230392personally id like to get gun ownership up before the years of lead pop off but idk
>>2232242why are you lying
>>2224729oh but the endless school shootings where the shooter just *happened* to be in contact with the FBI, that's not domestic gladio, that's just liberal background static
buddy we've been living in the century of lead
>>2232290If this was a real Years of Lead scenario right-wingers would be afraid to congregate out of fear that their meeting places would get bombed or they'd get shot.
Just imagine if comrades were to [REDACTED] the headquarters of the Heritage Foundation.
>>2232290I’m just thankful fascists aren’t armed and organized, at least not in large enough numbers.
If they were, they’d be physically attacking leftist spaces like infoshops or doxxing comrades and attacking them in their homes.
Remember what happened to that Greek anarchist rapper 12 years ago? Martyred in cold blood by fascist scum?
>>2231441Caleb isn't entirely wrong here, and if anything, leftists who talk about inclusivity, social justice and humanism should be the first to reject a Years of Lead.
I thought about this just now while watching this vide on the "Clean Girl" aesthetic and why said aesthetic is fascistic in nature: the "Clean Girl" seeks purity and stability in everything. Her life is a refuge from chaos. She has to purge anything "undesirable" from her existence, identical to how fascism seeks to eradicate the disabled, racial minorities, queer people and social outsiders. It's also highly correlated with New Age wellness culture, which is entirely fascist.
The thing is, historically socialist nations were also big on "purifying" their societies. They held to a Platonist view of what society ought to be and purged anyone who didn't fit that model. The "New Socialist Man" was a fundamentally eugenicist notion. But why? Because socialist nations needed STABILITY. Caleb makes this a point several times in his books. Because the USSR and Communist China came into existence through violent revolutions, they needed to be authoritarian and purge anyone who didn't fit the mold of what a "perfect" person should be under socialism.
If you have a violent revolution, you will at some point need to stabilize society in order to build the productive forces and start doing socialism. You can't have war communism for 10 years and expect to create an egalitarian society. The fact is, during a big violent apocalypse the weak will not only be targeted by the right but eventually targeted by the left.
A peaceful, GRADUALIST revolution is the only way to ensure socialism remains inclusive.
>>2231441Maupin is now claiming the glorification of Luigi is “Malthusian”.
This man is a walking parody.
>>2242059These collections of freaks are the brownshirts of tomorow.
It's a good job USA is so large and sparse, the only thing saving you lot is that these freaks are so far apart and they don't have anyone smart enough to instrumentalise them properly.
>>2244344Houdini is a known
good guy and has been here for atleast a year to my knowledge.
>>2245975Their generation consists of histrionic losers who have a delusional importance complex and nothing more. Case & point, the anarkiddie really felt it necessary to namefag themselves and introduce themselves in some redd*toid fashion, "UHM HECKIN' HEY GUYS, <INSERT IDENTITY SIGNIFIER> HERE, AND LET ME JUST TELL YOU…" No, fuck off–your voice counts for nothing and least of all it does it command any kind of essence other than that of the insufferably self-absorbed. It's so myopic–virtually indistinguishable from listening to some old lady rant to me at the grocery stall.
Like, these subhumans really want to pretend they can stand on any kind of leg for advocacy when all they do is play division over the most petty and artificial bullshit, as if they have to one-up their sense of importance relative to everyone else's, just utterly pathological, zero self-awareness behavior akin to what you see out of Israeli society.
>>2249504no wider revolutionary movement surrounding them, no media backing, no clout, no broad base of spectators, too early? too late? too culty? probably the last one, but the feds have done a lot to make the group seem worse than it was
they got many things right and their manifesto has aged very well imo
>>2229972I'm not the original critic about this but i do have some thoughts on the manual
The army manual has some useful information about diy plastic explosives but it also has some old and useless info, such as utilizing carbon tet (not widely available anymore, super cancerous, etc) from fire extinguishers.
almost all of the time delay contraptions are also outdated, and a more modern approach would utilize radio/cellular detonator tutorials.
The whole section about grenades isn't super useful because the avg guerilla doesn't have grenades but I'm sure it's not impossible to manufacture something similar.
>>2249777>I'm not the original critic about this but i do have some thoughts on the manualTo clarify, I seethed at Houdini because his reading list has bomb making instructions but didn't teach proper opsec. Even though his reading lists content has stuff that will get the reader on a watchlist, he did not bother talking about stuff like proper digital OPSEC so that leftists can learn how to use technologies like tor to research things that may be illegal in their country. An example of a organization that has proper OPSEC is MIM (Prisons).
http://almhvxlkr4wwj7ah564vd4rwqk7bfcjiupyf7rs6ppcg5d7bgavbscad.onion/I uploaded their onion link because they warned that the FBI tracks its visitors so I want to encourage going on it through Tor.
>>2251627This TBH.
If the USA had something like a “Progressive Social Justice Party” that was pretty much strong social democracy + Tumblr social justice all of those pink-haired grad students would flock to it and leave anarchist and Marxist spaces alone.
>>2262655Correct.
American are way too chickenshit to do anything serious. The US may be going through crisis but it's not anything close to even something like Greece in 2008.
Just go on /r/anarchism if you want an example of the attitudes your average American leftists have towards the current political environment. The people on there are so moralistic that their only "solution" to the turmoil is finding a mutual aid group and asking people to donate to people's GFMs, basically a "we'll get through this and wait this out".
>>2226180well, the GF protests in 2020 were very interesting to see. a hiatus in a 20 years long tense calm of many nothingburgers; where even the WH turn off the lights to scare off people from the perimeter, and probably snatched some protestors in the process, too.
but yeah, nothing is amounting to something back in time.
>>2278533Stop posting screenshots instead of the actual thing you megaretard.
>>2278348Manifesto and video of the shooter in
>>2278567 >>2278563 >>2278752No. Retard.
You will grow up to be a rightist. If you have any politics past internet posting that is.
>>2278776>I don't see what's cringe about PSL.old drama from the early/mod 2010s that isn't relivent now
>>2278348Israel shoots diplomats and bombs embassies all the time, its about time they get a taste of their own medicine, I have no sympathy for them
>>2279292have these guys ever read a single thing about apartheid was abolished?
I get that they can't go full 'fuck yeah' but they can at least put forward a slightly less pathetic statement like "these actions are regrettable but reflect the violence committed overseas" or whatever
>>2281384>but every time a group is so openly pro-Hamas and doesn’t face legal crackdowns I get suspicious.For me it's when western leftists keep going on about how they think all israelis are equally complicit and deserve punishment.
It's the kind of narrative that ends up heavily implying this is what Hamas believe, but I've not seen any evidence of this.
So by claiming to be decolonial, they are infact perpetuating orientalist depictions of non-white rebels being bloodthirsty, etc
https://www.middleeasteye.net/news/hamas-faults-happened-7-october-first-report-since-war >>2284632This is exactly my view.
I remember when Haz first started and he was a typical ML. Then he got lectured by some Hegelians and next thing you know he's a Duginist and LaRouchie.
>>2284832It implies that shooting random Jews would be justified on the basis that they're almost guaranteed to be Zionists.
By his logic, shooting up a random synagogue would be justified on the basis of Palestinian liberation.
>>2284863I still wouldn't be comfortable shooting up a place of worship. It's exactly why the IOF shooting up mosques is despicable.
>>2284864I'm not a fan of shooting up random people thinking my bullets will be guaranteed to hit "the right target".
>>2284866I guess I'll wait for the information to be revealed before trial before I start speculating on Rodriguez's motives but still.
>>2224744>>2229972I appreciate this Houdini. Its thankless work this. People will fedjacket you but it doesn't matter even if you were. If people are taking these books and reading even a few of them, comrades anywhere are better off. As a fed op its certainly not doing them any favours.
But you probably aren't and it doesnt matter anyway. They don't have prisons enough for us all and theres no future for us unless we are victorious.
Keep doing the work, people will post on here that you are a fed or a liberal or a this or a that but likely they only do so to assuage their guilt at not doing anything.
By telling others their efforts dont do anything they can bring you down to their level.
fuck it ball anyway
>>2228462I remember talking to a guy from Italy a few years ago. He was one of those economically leftist but socially conservative types. He said modern Italy is a gerontocracy on steroids, like the whole country is run by a bunch of 70-something grandmothers and grandfathers, like even worse than America is. He said the reason for this is largely because most Italians are politically apathetic due to the after effects of the Years of Lead violence. The YoL created a culture of political apathy in Italy because people were afraid of being killed or shot at if they got involved in politics. Those attitudes continue to this day.
I mean, last decade multiple European countries saw waves of mass protests. You saw them in Greece, Spain, France, Bulgaria, Serbia, and elsewhere. But the one place you didn’t see any mass protesting was Italy. Mostly because, again, the general Italian population has become incredibly apathetic about politics due to the years of lead. Most Italians would rather sit back, enjoy pasta, and sip wine while watching the sunset from their balconies than get politically active.
>>2286319Yeah no way this is gonna end in a plea deal. They want to make an example out of this dude.
He's completely fucked and is gonna spend the rest of his life in prison. Or get executed in a few years if the charges leveled against him are federal ones.
>>2282174https://ritchietorres.house.gov/congressman-ritchie-torres-writes-to-executives-at-twitch-and-amazon-hasan-piker-is-dangerousUS Congress is now formally asking Jeff Bezos to permanently ban Hasan Piker from speaking on the Twitch video game streaming platform, whilst accusing him of being antisemitic, a Chinese agent, anti-American, and comparing him to the Ku Klux Klan.
But yeah I guess the violence in DC paid off.
>>2286616"To be radical is to grasp the root of the matter."
- Karl Marx
>>2286647"Precisely for this reason the victory of the October Revolution signifies a RADICAL turn in economics and politics, in the manner of life, customs, habits and traditions, in the culture and in the whole spiritual complexion of the exploited masses throughout the world."
- Stalin
>>2286657"One must strive to be as radical as tony hawk doing a sick 360 kickflip"
- Vladimir Ilyich Lenin
>>2285842They were both “Israeli” citizens.
Anyone with “Israeli” citizenship is a legitimate target.
>>2288506The Alchemist has Israeli citizenship.
Does he deserve to die? He makes some of the greatest music of our era.
>>2288886no, if it's valid for israelites to target palestinians for flimsy links to hamas such as being on the same mile as them, israelites deserves the same.
but i don't understand you uyghas, bomber harris get memed but the same thing against the same type of people happens today and i'm insane, please, i'm just not making excuses for genocidal maniacs.
>>2288511>>2288851>>2288876>>2288877>>2288881If you ask him if he's a Zionist or his opinions on Palestine in his IG comments he blocks you.
t. happened to me
>>2224729OP you have no idea how fucking cringe you are. This is a country where mass shootings are normal. This ain't the years of lead, its just baseline burger psychosis.
retard take
https://newpol.org/the-israel-embassy-killings-wrong-in-every-way/The Israel Embassy Killings: Wrong in Every Way
>In the face of the ongoing genocide unfolding before our eyes in Gaza, with Human Rights Watch warning “Latest Israeli Plan Inches Closer to Extermination,” it is not surprising that people with decent instincts would feel desperate to do something to stop the carnage. But the path chosen by Elias Rodriguez, who shot and killed two staff members of the Israeli embassy in Washington DC, was not the solution. On the contrary, it was a tragedy and wrong on multiple levels.
>Most people are not absolute pacifists, but believe that there are times where violence is morally justified. But the moral bar for using violence is a high one, and violence must be focused on those who bear particular responsibility for harm. That’s why international humanitarian law makes a crucial distinction between combatants and noncombatants—a distinction that has been violated by Israel on a vast scale. Low-level embassy employees are not combatants nor are they policymakers. Killing them was morally wrong. That they worked for the foreign ministry of a state engaged in mass crimes was condemnable, but not a capital offense.
>Moreover, to be just, violence must offer the best chance of stopping the harm. Yet there is no chance at all that the deaths of the staffers will cause Israel or its American enablers to reverse course. On the contrary, the incident is already being used to justify further repression of the pro-Palestine movement.
>From the reports of the shooting, one wonders whether Rodriguez even knew for certain that his victims worked for the embassy. The crowd leaving the event at the Capital Jewish Museum included diplomats, young Jewish professionals, and keynote speakers from two aid organizations, one of which suffered the loss of three volunteers in Gaza, killed, in the organization’s words, “when their residence was attacked by Israeli forces without any warning.”
>Israeli prime minister Benjamin Netanyahu declared that the “terrorist who cruelly gunned [the pair] down did so for one reason and one reason alone—he wanted to kill Jews.” This is preposterous. Nothing in Rodriguez’s “Explication“ or his social media history that has been extensively pored through shows that he held any animus toward Jews qua Jews rather than towards the Israeli state and its terrible crimes. It’s hard to imagine that he would have acted as he did in the absence of Israeli atrocities that have reached the level of genocide. He shouted his support of Palestinians, not antisemitic slogans. On his window in Chicago he had a sign reading “Tikkun Olam means FREE PALESTINE.”
>But still, by targeting a mostly Jewish meeting organized by the American Jewish Committee held in a Jewish space without an explicitly pro-Israel agenda, Rodriguez has blurred what should be a bright line between anti-Jewish and anti-Israel actions. Israel apologists have long been working to deny the distinction; unfortunately Rodriguez has muddied it further. Whatever his intentions, his victims will not just be the two staffers, but the people of Palestine. As a result of his actions, attention will be diverted from the ongoing mass slaughter in Gaza to the deaths of the young couple.
>The pro-Palestinian movement had been making important strides in recent weeks. The latest Gallup poll showed that fewer than half of Americans support Israel, and that among those who identify as Democrats, Palestinians were supported over Israel by an incredible 59% to 21%. According to an Economist-YouGov poll, a plurality of voters want to decrease military aid to Israel, particularly among Democrats. And though Congress lags far behind the public, opposition has been slowly growing there to the U.S. blank check to Israel and to the enforced starvation.
>Now, however, the killing of the staffers will be used to try to discredit the Palestinian cause. There will be all sorts of further clamping down against activists: more weaponized charges of antisemitism, more surveillance, more arrests, more deportations. This repression will not be new. But it will have more public support than before. Already the print New York Times has run a story on its front page:
<“Attack Tangles Pro-Palestinian Movement’s Path”
<“The slaying of two Israeli Embassy workers cast[s] a harsh spotlight on pro-Palestinian groups in the United States. Activists, who were already being scrutinized, could face further pushback.”
>And on the op-ed page, they offered up a piece by the media director at the Consulate General of Israel in New York with the print title “This Is the Tragic Consequence of Conflating Jews and Israel”—ignoring the strong presence of Jews and Jewish organizations in the movement for Palestinian liberation.
>To be sure, terrorism has sometimes “worked,” particularly when carried out by powerful states (think of Guernica or Hiroshima). But the historical record of terror by Palestinians has been to strengthen the Israeli right. Palestinian attacks on Israeli civilians in the mid-1990s or during the Second Intifada, or rockets fired at Sderot, led not to justice but to more repression, the disappearance of the Israeli left, and greater racist intolerance among the Israeli public. Likewise, October 7 did not advance the Palestinian cause, but set it back horribly. And the assassinations of low-level Israeli officials in the United States will certainly not help in furthering Palestinian interests.
>The survival of the Palestinian people will alas depend on political change in the United States. That will require the growth of the U.S. pro-Palestine movement, building support as widely as possible. Such a movement needs to maintain its moral clarity—both for its own sake and to have any chance of success. >>2289658All Zios deserve to die.
I’m sick of playing nice.
All my mercy is gone. Burn every Zio into ash.
>>2289658there's nothing in this attack for communists to denounce the US wasn't gonna stop supporting israel anyways and it wasn't gonna stop repressing pro-palestinian activists either, the killing of two rabid zionists isn't gonna convince anyone who wasn't already convinced of the moral justifiaction of israel to genocide palestinians
at most you could say the attack will be inconsequential and a "waste of time" but then again you can say that about any pro-palestine protest except most of them don't result in palestinians getting some miniscule ammount of justice in the form of the death of two of their oppresors
>>2289961why wouldn't it? dont want to be a target change your shitty views?
consequentialism v deontology
its good when we do it vs its always bad
aka
good to kill fascists not good to kill communists
>>2289962The difference is that the majority of fascists and neo-Nazis are violent and terrorize vulnerable communities.
Meanwhile, your average Jew who vaguely "supports Israel" isn't necessarily going to do anything except be an asshole on the internet.
>>2289974Is the "average Jew" spreading Nazi propaganda to their 1 million + followers? They hanged journalists at Nuremburg, and by many accounts not enough. There is a reason people are making lists of cable news reporters. They did it after Rwanda too and the DJ's calling for extermination of people didn't pull a trigger either.
Im just explaining the other side but I'm not seeing what your justification against it is, but it seems to me like you are implying something that you take for granted
>>2289658>Rodriguez has blurred what should be a bright line between anti-Jewish and anti-Israel actionsIf you point at a random Jew you'll find a German Christian who spreads genocide propaganda. BEYOND PARODY LOL
>attention will be diverted from the ongoing mass slaughter in Gaza to the deaths of the young couple.did you know that many nazis were prosecuted for their role in helping genocide at Nuremberg?
"The Propaganda Prosecutions at Nuremberg" (2017)
https://digitalcommons.lmu.edu/ilr/vol39/iss1/10/>As Erna Petri, a German homemaker and mother of two, was driving home after grocery shopping, she saw six disheveled and seemingly scared children huddling together on the side of the road. It was the summer of 1943. And through word of mouth, Erna knew that a group of Jewish children had escaped from a train headed to a Nazi extermination center. It occurred to her that these children may have been a part of that group. She approached them and kindly invited them to come home with her. Once at her house, she gave them something to eat and reassured them that they would be safe. Then she asked them to go outside with her. In a wooded area by her house, she stood them one next to the other. Then she placed herself behind them, pulled out a gun, and shot each one of them in the back of the head. After the war, when asked how she could have engaged in such an incomprehensible act of cruelty against innocents, she replied: <I am unable to grasp at this time how in those days that I was in such a state as to conduct myself so brutally and reprehensibly—shooting Jewish children. However earlier . . . I had been so conditioned to fascism and the racial laws, which established a view towards the Jewish people. As was told to me, I had to destroy the Jews. It was from this mindset that I came to commit such a brutal actSuch a tragedy how people blame propagandists for this!
>>2289981Well again, do you think it would be morally justified to engage in violence at a hip hop producer who made a beat tape called "Israeli Salad"?
How do we determine who is a "Zionist" because it seems like no one in the Palestine solidarity camp can even tell you what that actually means. There are some who will say anyone who promotes coexistence between Palestinians and Israelis is a "Zionist" and deserves to be seen in the same light as Bibi and Ben-Gvir.
>>2290046I dont know enough about these celebrities but yes there are definitely ethical positions that would get you there. Its a little fuzzy to me but there is definitely a line where you have a big enough audience that you are no longer a "normal" civilian and have to have some responsibility for what you put out. But there are also moral justifications for terrorism against "normal" civilians. For example, hypothetically, if the US is a democracy one could say that 9/11 was justified, but of course we know its not a democracy.
>How do we determine who is a "Zionist"This borders on bait but assuming you are just naive it means anyone who thinks Israel as a settler colonial apartheid ethno-state should exist. It would really depend on what you mean by "coexistence between Palestinians and Israelis" but within that you maintain Israeli as one of the two identities, presumably meaning Israel exists. If this hypothetical coexistence means a two state solution then that is probably Zionism. If it exists as an ethno-state then the apartheid logically follows to maintain demographic supremacy, as does the ethnic cleansing. If you mean a secular Israel not based on Jewish ethnicity and just keeping two different state names for tradition or because everyone previously agreed to 1967 borders but essentially becoming the same state then it probably wouldn't.
Why do you think "simply having shitty political views is enough to justify being killed" is morally wrong? So that we can have a baseline for what you consider moral, as morality is a highly subjective topic.
Doesn't it depend on the severity of the "shitty political views"? If someone was going around your town saying that a group of people who have a common immutable characteristic should be murdered on that basis and there was a series of killing resulting from that could a violent pre-emptive strike against it by an individual with those characteristics who has not been personally harmed yet not be justified as self defense?
I think its quite different for someone to be targeted based on "political views" that necessarily and logically result in harm to innocents then targeting someone based on inherent qualities about a person that they cant change, like where they were born or their ancestry. Views can be changed, and political violence can be a mechanism for changing them, but you can't change the circumstance of your birth. Palestinians cant not be Palestinian, but being a Zionist is a choice, and it is choosing genocide.
Also you didn't answer my question, and instead just gave a vague statement with a bunch more implications.
What is Zionism to you? Why do you think it is morally bad to commit violence against propagandists? Do you just think violence should only done legally, by the state, which in this case is also complicit in the genocide? You keep flipping back and forth from average people and having bad views to celebrities endorsing genocide to millions of fans.
>>2290057So by your logic, if 90% of Jews are Zionists, it would be morally justified to murder 90% of Jews on that basis alone?
Making an album called “Israeli Salad” means you should be killed because it entails you believe Israel should exist?
>>2292872You do realize all that’s going to happen as a result of these attacks is Trump cracking down harder on pro-Palestine activists, right?
I wouldn’t be surprised if he mass deports American Muslims simply for being Muslim.
>>2293049Who gives a shit? They don't need a justification for doing what they want to do anyway. We're almost two solid years into this fucking genocide and even the most peaceful, non-violent activities precipitate brutal, draconian responses. All we've seen is
>Do nothing<genocide continues<repression increases>Peacefully protest<genocide continues<repression increases>Protest violently<genocide continues <repression increases"Oooh you know this is gonna cause a crackdown right?" No shit. Anything short of enthusiastic collaboration is going to bring about a crackdown, and that's all that's being advocating for every time someone piddles about "muh crackdowns."
This is why non-violence works better than violence:
https://youtu.be/quXVxFS2TvI?si=fqI28fhU5ozNtIk-&t=1644The significant part of non-violence is that by engaging in it you expose the violence of the system.
>>2289981Diaspora Jews are largely becoming more and more Zionist since October 7th.
For instance, I was friends with a Jewish dude who was your typical tankie and very anti-Zionist. Oct. 7th happened and within a short amount of time he became a full-fledged Likudnik.
>>2293310Attacking old zionists during a zionist led genocide, yeah.
>>2293418>muh non violence Two zionists gunned down and 8 burned but alive are drops compared to an ocean of blood that Israel is expanding at this very moment, and which almost two solid years of non violent protesting have done absolutely nothing to solve.
Give me a break.
>>2293485Killing zionists is justified wherever and whoever they are, and I'm not going to act like it's not.
https://euromedmonitor.org/en/article/6749/Nearly-230-killed-or-wounded-as-Israel-carries-out-largest-massacre-since-new-aid-mechanism-was-enforced-in-Gaza
>Euro-Med Monitor’s field team documented Israeli forces opening fire on thousands of civilians gathered at dawn today, Sunday, 1 June 2025, in Tel al-Sultan, Rafah, near an aid distribution centre established by the Israeli army. Preliminary data indicate that the attack killed at least 31 civilians, including two women, and injured more than 200 others. Several remain missing.What goes around, comes around. Israel spares no one, so no one that supports Israel should be spared. If these people were having a peaceful meeting to try and bring an end to the war then this attack wouldn't be justified. Instead they were waving Israeli flags and advocating for genocide.
If they don't like the taste of their own medicine then maybe they shouldn't dish it out.
>>2293135zionist demostration=nazi demostration
both need to get pipebombed
>>2293210they seemed pretty ok with it when they celebrated that 48 palestinian driving his truck into a crowd of elder ziopigs
>>2294144lets pray he dies of his injuries
>>2294141>>2294144These people see themselves as part of an international army which is at war with Israel.
Leaving aside the moral questions (whether it's "right" or "wrong"), what these people want to do is wage war against Zionists in the United States and everywhere else in the same way they wage war against Zionists in the Middle East. That's how they think. These people were Zionists and Zionists are killers and that's bad and makes them legitimate targets ergo he tries to kill them and that's good because they're the enemy. That's the logic. This guy was Egyptian but imagine if there were pro-Israel demonstrations in Egypt, those people would get beaten to death or at least have Molotov cocktails thrown at them. Definitely.
Now, this guy also targeted a group that is basically pro-Israel although they don't necessarily say that explicitly – it's a "free our hostages" thing but they do wave American and Israeli flags and really IMO it's an attempt to create sympathy among Americans for the Israeli prisoners in Gaza (and therefore sympathize with Israel more than suffering Palestinians). They do not make demands on the U.S. or Israeli governments to end the war or make a deal to free them. Basically they're Zionists, and since they're Zionists, this guy thought throwing Molotov cocktails was the right thing to do.
Of course, the problem with this is that there are all sorts of complications and dangers when trying to apply a war-like strategy inside the United States. If you ask me, I think it's probably counterproductive. It's not really the best way to influence other Americans to support a cause, because they just don't understand the context they're operating in here.
>>2294842>Their event wasn’t a pro-genocide event.Pro-Israel logically concludes in pro-genocide, so if they are Zionists they are pro-genocide because genocide is what happens when you try to make an ethnostate.
>>2294603even says
>Jews are not [safe] anywhere but Israelhow is that anti-zionist, and not directly an argument for the necessity of a Jewish ethnostate?
and that is giving them the benefit of the doubt that they genuinely want the hostages released and don't know that its pro-genocide propaganda. You are still trying to split between Zionist and genocidal when one implies the other. You can't advocate for Lebensraum with gentle ethnic cleansing, there is no such thing. The logistics of mass forced displacement necessarily result in genocide in all historic examples.
>>2294618>If you ask me, I think it's probably counterproductive.same
>>2295140>Shut the fuck up HitlerFunny, but humor this question. You know, Zionism has a lot to offer to Jews specifically, even though Israel may be an arm for US/NATO interests. So Zionists enjoy a protected status among NATO institutions.
What can you offer anti-zionist jews, for being Jewish? I know of the things that you can offer workers. But specifically Jews? Nothing. They are already a privileged group in the places that matter most to Zionism. So, really, it's just a matter of PR making palatable to reach for the material incentives which are all on one side.
>>2296474His family may be deported tomorrow.
But yeah, it was worth it because it owned the Zios. I guess.
>>2312916I'm surprised he isn't part of the ACP
Just more fed tailist garbage
>>2314828ICE gestapo unites aren't about idpol
>>2316195i joked once it was probably an LLC
>The Center for Political Innovation, LLCbut as it says on the website it literally is lmao.
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