/leftypol/ - Leftist Politically Incorrect

>>2232858
why is it never "eat the delicious fruit"?
its always "eat the leaves and grass"
now they are telling us to eat ze bugs
maybe its an upgrade 🤣

>>2232869
90% of vegetables taste like shit because they're empty water and cellulose, but by that virtue they help you keep weight down, compared to sugary fruits which eventually will make you overweight too.

>>2232874
thats bullshit. no one ever got fat from fruit. keeping weight off is also not a singular virtue. we need healthy fat too, which comes from meat.

>>2232829
Humans seek out sweet and salty food, raw unseasoned meat isn't the most appetizing otherwise we would be fine eating roadkill as fruit from a tree.

I don't buy into the moralism so my only concern is sustainability and mussels are far more sustainable than almonds

>>2232759
The nutrients are locked inside the fiber. Fiber blocks nutrient absorption.

>>2232888
i have eaten plenty of raw meat and its not as bad as people imagine. i do think that cooking meat is probably optimal though, since what is really delicious is the fat grease and blood (the "juicyness" of a steak for example) which is heated out of it. for thinks like dairy and eggs though, you can have that raw and it will be just as appetising. if they sold animal blood in stores, it would sell out immediately, since so much of the saltiness is in that. when you buy a steak from a store next, drink the small amount of blood left over. its wonderful.

Incredible amount of dogshit takes itt. Regardless of how you feel about humans killing animals, factory farming is absolutely horrendous for the animals, the environment and the workers involved. Who gives a shit about whether you can eat meat ethically in an ideal made up scenario, put the treatlerite bargain bin chicken and rice down, learn to cook and eat some fucking beans. If you care about communism because of workers rights, you also care about animal rights enough to realize that enslaving animals for your laziness is indefensible. Grow up.

I dated a Jewish girl who was a vegan.

Her shits smelled HORRENDOUS.

>>2233275
Exactly, if someone actually hunts all their meat then fine, they're somewhat morally superior to the average carnist but none of these people actually do that

>>2232892
>I don't buy into the moralism
everything is moralism, even communism.

you cant say something should be done without an appeal to morality. claiming that sustainability, efficiency, utility, saving the environment, preventing PTSD, etc are something that should be done is a moral argument that appeals to those things being good. you can get away from this by framing them as if/then. if you want sustainability then…. etc, but people could just say they dont want sustainability. you say self interest, but what if they dont want self interest, you say for the good of humanity, what if they dont care about humanity. same for communism

>>2225819
Meat eating is a lot like religion. Its something you can't really stamp out by force. I think meat eating will be made redundant once lab-grown meat matches and then surpasses organic meat.

Acknowledging the relegation of some animal in nothing more than a tool of production is part of the training of the wage slave. From the capitalist point of view there is little difference between the worker and the chicken, in consequence I propose to team up with the other animals to overthrow the present state of things.

>>2233359
Communism wasn't created on the basis of moralism, as Marx simply refused to make any moralistic arguments in his works.

Veganism is an individual solution to a global problem

Verdict: liberal

>>2233612
>Communism wasn't created on the basis of moralism
yes but ultimately it is still an appeal to morality. he shows its inherent contradictions and from his analysis capitalism will necessarily evolve into socialism or devolve into barbarism, but convincing people to adopt one or the other still has to bridge the is-out gap one way or another.

it doesn't have to be a universal morality but it gets pretty close. it is also in the long term interest of the bourgeoisie not to be enslaved to capital, and not to be overthrown by the majority, reliance on others to work for you also alienates you from the world, but they might put their personal short term interest first. you also dont have to convince everyone, just a representative revolutionary vanguard, and impose a workers dictatorship on the rest.

marx never really simply says we should do communism he just gives us a lot of if/then reasons that cover almost every reasonable if situation. misanthropic antihumanists could still say that its better if humanity is wiped out or individuals could just put hedonism over their or their childrens future. his arguments are premised on the assumption that most people want to fulfill the promises of the enlightenment and liberal capitalism for liberty, equality, and fraternity. if you want those things then communism is the answer.

so its not exactly moralism but an imminent critique that shows capitalism does not live up to its own claimed morals, without appealing to abstract concepts like justice but instead showing what material foundations are necessary to achieve that goal if its what you claim to uphold without specifically endorsing it one way or the other. his work is a structural analysis without moralism but there is an implicit moral/ethical/normative unless you think marx was strictly deterministic and teleological.

deepseek wants to say that marx was strictly determinist but also that "Marx would deny framing this as “ethics,” insisting it reflects scientific analysis of human needs under capitalism. " which 'needs' sounds ethical to me but also that "Capitalism’s collapse is inevitable only if class consciousness and revolutionary organization succeed." and that it is about contingent agency and Marx never actually addresses the question, but to me rosa's addition(which is explicitly an ethical choice) naturally follows from what he leaves open

>>2233819
>ultimately it is still an appeal to morality
Saying communism is solely about the proletarian's self-interest is not an appeal to morality unless you spin up some gibberish worthy of a philosophy student.

>>2233822
define self-interest.

>>2233824
>philosophycuckery
Called it.

>>2233826
oh you must be one of those people who thinks marx's critique of philosophy "the point is to change it" is an outright rejection rather then trying to make it not a circle jerk. when you said "student" i thought you meant like such a psued circle jerk not something that is widely accepted to be true from one of the biggest names

>>2232841
see >>2232490
You would metabolize this nearly 100%. Try this for a month, take a physical before and after.
You even can take a multivitamin to not die.

>>2233275
Beans are for slaves. Sacrificing your health to protest enslaved animals is stupid.

It seems that reducing meat consumption is necessary to mitigate global warming. A shame because I love meat. And I will always eat meat. Even in a communist society

>>2234281
or… maybe overpopulation is the root of a simultaneous overproduction? we can have everything we want, as long as theres less people.

>>2233825
To the greatest benefit of the self.
Obviously having surplus value extracted to benefit someone else, in return for a wage that only keeps you bound to the parasite isn’t in the self-interest of the one facing the extraction.

>>2225819
Political as idpol but its just individualist consumerism in its core.

>>2234301
>overproduction
That an incorrect use of the word chud
How about we start with (You) btw?

>>2233993
Veganism doesn't even save animals, it's just liberal nonsense.

>>2235629
>if I remove half the words in a sentence,it sounds stupid
The complete sentence is retarded, what are you on about? Meat will be made redundant by *checks notes* meat, Da fuq?

>>2236006
i think people will start to differentiate between lab meat and industrial farming meat, if lab meat becomes widely available, so yeah anon is right [lab] meat will make [slaughterhouse] meat irrelevant, not sure what's hard to follow here

test

Vegans are objectively morally correct but there is more to life than morality.

>>2236068
i don't believe in objective morality, but when people claim they don't have a moral intuition that less human-caused animal suffering is better than more animal suffering, it seems they are lying.

>>2229173
You are stunningly retarded

>>2230028
A vegan diet is nutrient deficient and unsustainable, so no.

>>2231927
>No they don't, plant based agriculture STILL harms animals. Deforestation, crop deaths, etc.
And you need a lot less crops when you don't have to feed those to cattle. Vegans do talk about needless destruction in plant agriculture but choose to focus on the meat industry itself for now because that is the clear priority

>>2232829
lol, eating your vegetables is child abuse now. Your "abusers" laughing at you!

What kind of pussy wrote this?
Also, fruits and vegetables are not the same thing and don't serve the same purpose.
There must be all sorts of things wrong with you.

>>2225819
>Thoughts on Veganism ?
good personal and individual choice of life, except when parents decide to apply it to their newborn, even children below 10. they deserve to be put facing to the wall, and get shot, for taking a lifestyle as some sort of extreme fashion performative action, instead of being informed.
meh in the broad state of things. even if half the world population were vegan, the destruction caused by animal farming pollution would be too high to be unnoticeable.

>>2225819
>>2269532 (me)
>>2226556
Also all things considered, this: >>2226556

Vegetarianism is superior to veganism, because of B12, and generally it's better to eat unprocessed foods than to resort to supplements because we don't really know everything about nutrition

>>2225819
No strong feelings on veganism one way or the other.

The farm industry is fucked and as it currently operates- it is committing eco-cide, pollution as well as arguably contributing to global warming- particularly in the livestock fields.

https://sentientmedia.org/how-does-livestock-affect-climate-change/

That being said, animals are absolutely treated inhumanely for the sake of profit- so some of these animal liberation groups have a point, especially in how the ill treatment of animals in factory farms also contributes to the spread of human diseases.

https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC9757169/

Being Vegan and engaging in animal liberation isn't necessarily out of some moral grand-standing exclusively, but actually does have some of its practices in anti-capitalist tactics, i.e targeting factory farms.

The problem is, is that some (but not all) vegans, embrace kazinskyite style deep ecology politics- and this can be a problem. But this is nothing that social ecology and environmentally friendly forms of technology and farming can't fix.

https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S2666049021000177

Veganism can be a tactic, but it's not an overall strategy.

>>2228839
A good chunk of the working class consists of fags and foreigners, you Hitlerite bitch.

>>2227251
what about steel cut oats?

Honestly it's a good way to practice daily discipline and awareness. I don't trust a 'revolutionary' who's going to complain about how they won't do it, it's too hard :(((

>>2269588
>A good chunk of the working class consists of fags and foreigners, you Hitlerite bitch.
Fags arent a good chunk but a small minority, and the thing about foreigners is that everybody considers the other guy a foreigner, not themselves.

Veganism has nothing to do with being revolutionary, it's just liberal moralism.

>>2277211
Yes, all carnists.