I actually never watch anything related to him and I watch African news all the time. I swear, the moment I heard about the guy entering Moscow for a security meeting, the sheer number of articles related to this guy skyrocketed. Guys treated like heâs the second coming of Christ even if his army visibly sucks.
>>2272296because he's the most openly anti imperialist leader Burkina Faso has had since Thomas Sankara. Next question.
>his army visibly sucksrelative to what? To the USA? To Russia? To China? To past Burkina Faso? To your imaginary standards?
>>2272324Relative to other African armies.
Even compared to the rest of the Sahel, his army has performed unusually bad given the leftovers of the previous administration and his reluctance to recruit more people.
>>2272296I heard the DPRK sent troops. My critical support metre has raised somewhat.
>>2272302>What is the meaning of this word 'visibly' here?Probably alluding to the fact they have lost large parts of the country and failed to retake them.
>>2272334This is my concern too, since Joachim was sacked. Any updates on this?
Apparently he's still very popular however, the simple things like attempting to create value instead of simply exporting and the aim to build 1000's of miles of paved road, which will also hopefully quel the insurgencies long-term due to easier access to rural areas.
>>2272354>I remember that report. It was from over a year ago. Donât spread outdated or misleading information(NTA) No, this is from few days ago.
You're right though in that there was no good reason to cut off the date and there has been similar stories in the past.
https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2025/5/15/al-qaeda-affiliate-claims-200-soldiers-killed-in-attack-in-burkina-faso >>2272356I've heard it argued before guys who come to power through Officers Coups, like Gaddafi, Sankara, Traore, are better off
weakening the military after they come to power so they don't get couped by their own officers.
>>2272356>He could also just hire more people to join the military.What alerted my interest was them forming a large paramilitary force (apparently under army command) called the VDP. I believe it technically predates Traore but he has expanded it by tens of thousands. I saw one pic of these guys who look like hunters which reminds me of the Kamajors in Sierra Leone, who were traditional hunting societies that made up the core of the state's civil defense forces during the civil war, and were apparently pretty effective. There was also a bad attack by Al Qaeda last year where hundreds of civilians mustered into digging trenches were overrun and massacred and I wonder if those civilians were part of the VDP. Their main job is to hold fixed positions around their towns and villages.
I don't know enough to have an opinion on Traore and what he's doing. The glazing that is going on is pretty silly to me and I don't care about his image, but I don't know that I wouldn't be behind him if I were Burkinabe. I'd just say that these wars involving a lot of raids by very mobile groups are really bad for civilians because they can get overrun really fast and just get waylaid.
>>2272394>Yeah and thatâs what leads to civil wars when the countryâs ability to defend itself falters under that kind of leadershipâlike what is *almost* happening now.They've claimed to have thwarted several coup plots recently. If there's another one that removes Traore, it wouldn't be a big surprise.
>>2272296What gets me is that, besides the vacuous glazing, there isn't much actual information on the developments in the Sahel alliance at all.
So until proven otherwise, I'm just gonna assume that Traore is the RF version of an African Zelenskyy.
>>2272335the man nationalized shit, try to to locally produce his country food and industrialize, made education free, kicked the imperialists out, all the while fighting the terrorist clusterfuck
seem good enough to me
>>2272327>reluctance to recruit more peoplehe had declared a national mobilization at some point, but for this kind of long drawn guerillas fight, you need people for a long time, and they likely dont have that much gear and money
>>2272547:ere was also a bad attack by Al Qaeda last year where hundreds of civilians mustered into digging trenches were overrun and massacred
who keeps joining these terrorist groups when they are so objectively bad? Like what even is their internal policy
>>2272688>who keeps joining these terrorist groups when they are so objectively bad? Like what even is their internal policyI am NOT an expert on the Sahel but I've read that part of the conflict here is between the settled townsfolk and the semi-nomadic herders and traders of the Sahel (the Fulani people, the Tuaregs) who practice Islam, which is being exacerbated by climate change, so as land dries out, the herders move and enroach on farmland. Some of the townsfolk kill the cattle, which is the worst blow you can inflict on a young man whose livelihood depends on it.
The Islamic extremist groups are kind of like NGOs if you think about it. And they show up and tell these people "let us move around in your area, and we'll go kick these guys asses for you." Then they start setting up an Islamic government and cutting people's hands off and some of the locals start getting second thoughts, but it's too late.
I don't think the borders on the map help make much sense of it. Think more trading and smuggling routes too. Also control of gold mines, which is where the foreign meddling comes in. I think I read something about Barrack (a big, very evil U.S. gold mining company) losing one of their gold mines recently. Burkina Faso nationalized it. I have to look that up again though. Gold is a very evil business it's mined in these ballsweat countries by super-exploited labor, and people kill over it, and it plays a role in international financial markets.
>>2272725>climate changeThe far more pressing cause is overgrazing
The Sahara undergoes cycles of desertification and retraction and that has shockingly not changed in spite of the climate crisis. These herders have a tendency to overgraze on whatever grasslands they find depleting them completely of life before moving on to the next place. The practice is violently unsustainable in comparison to other nomadic methods, and most of these herders refuse to either settle down anywhere or adapt to different methods. Unsurprisingly, this behaviour draws a lot of negative responses from basically everyone else in the Sahel that isnât a nomad. It also doesnât help that a lot of the young *men* involved are just looking for action by getting into gunfights with cops.
>>2272740That make sense.
Also, here we go, check out these guys. I think these are from Mali but these "dozo" hunters have been getting enlisted by the Sahelian juntas to fight Al Qaeda and ISIS.
I doubt they need much training from Wagner or whoever because they're probably good shots (and trackers) hunting bush meat.
>>2272299frfr dough is he that bussin no cap?
>>2272296>I actually never watch anything related to him That's how you start a post explaining about how you have some unique insight about him?
>>2272296Ibrahim Traore succeeded in seizing power after a coup detat, thus liquidating democracy and reverting the country into authoritarianism.
Only the working class can liberate itself!
Resolutely oppose all forms of junta!
Critical support to the grassroots and indigenous Al Qaeda group ofthe region in their fight against the Traore Tyrant!
Basically it's critical support for an African who is finally standing against imperialism, islamic extremism, and global capitalism. It's about time. A lot of people see him as the next Sankara.
People on the Left do glaze him and I get it, but he isn't perfect by any means.
Like hopefully he's just using Russia for his own ends, and is not simply going to end up replacing France for Russia as his nation's new neocolonial masters.
He also said some stuff about outlawing homosexuality which is kinda cringe, but then again he's in Africa, in the Sahel no less, so what exactly do you expect.
It's important we don't let imperfection, as all people are imperfect, be the enemy of what is mostly a good thing he is doing for Burkina Faso.
Btw, is it true that France and the US fund & arm the Islamist / ISIS linked militias in the Sahel to try to destabilise his regime?
And I also heard that they tried to pay his no. 2 guy to assassinate him but he refused to do it, which is a kino loyalty-pilled moment.
>>2272296you are just a cracker who is jealous of the Afrikan man's success
you do not matter
africans will inherit the earth
>>2273017>I thought Barrick Gold was one of the mining companies within the Canadian Trenchcoat.I think you're right. Or it's one of these transnational monsters that trades in both Canada and the U.S.
BTW there's a whole other group of non-jihadi Tuareg rebels in northern Mali called the MNLA / CSP-DPA who used to be backed by Gaddafi and now, apparently, Ukraine.
>>2272733>hunting with flintlocksimpressive
are those ape skulls in the back?
>>2273292>BTW there's a whole other group of non-jihadi Tuareg rebels in northern Mali called the MNLA / CSP-DPA who used to be backed by Gaddafi and now, apparently, Ukraine.during the destruction of libya they got paid by france to not help him, and they looted a lot of weapons at that time
since then they're helped by US and france to fuck with their enemies in the region and keep it unstable. One of the reason of the coups in the sahel was that it was clear france wasnt really willing to use its military power against them
>>2273345>You don't think that is important?compared to stuff like free education, nationalization of key industries and infrastructures, kicking out imperialists?
no, I really dont think its that important. And if they become more prosperous and their society less violent, and imperialist stop fucking with them, these issues will be a lot easier to bring to the forefront and solve.
>>2272296progaganda that has been tried and tested in the west.
diaspora has not experienced such a wide spreading propaganda campaign before. tiktok, facebook, youtube it's everywhere. i hear all older black relatives talk about this guy. can't escape him.
i've seen very very convincing deep fake speeches with him in it. fake captions. very sophisticated.
he's propagandized as a figure that brings hope and independence. perfect for the african diaspora.
>>2273701First of all. Reddit spacing, nice try botterino.
Secoond of all, maybe. Even the arabs are speak of their struggle
>>2273703you're a fuciking retard, russia simply cant have anywhere near the kind of influence france had. They speak their language, control the major regional media outlets, they used to control the currency, they controlled most of the crucial industry and infrastructure not only in the country but the whole region, the local elites go to their schools, much of trade and investment was more or less linked to france, and they had multiple military bases in the area. Comparatively, russia just train and arm some of the military and dont even have any permanent presence, the comparison is laughable and only the most braindead western lib fucks can spout such stupid shit seriously.
The idea that the west getting kicked out wont improve anything is pure propaganda cope, and anyone with that discourse can be dismissed as a pro imperial west liberal
>>2273345It is important. Very much so. But there's even far greater problems currently faced like not starving, or not being killed by islamists, or not getting invaded by NATO backed forces.
When material conditions improve, then it becomes much easier to focus on and address issues such as LGBT equality.
You can be critical of their bad positions on such social issues but hyper focusing on it as some deal-breaker on support only helps the right-wing / colonialist side, it ignores the greater situation.
Same is applicable to all conflicts. I'm LGBT and I'm well aware of how the Palestinian or Yemeni resistance has previously treated people like me.
That doesn't mean I'm suddenly going to make that a deal-breaker and support Western imperialism, war crimes, genocide.
When we have a free, safe and stable independent Palestine then I think at that point it'd be fair game to apply pressure and condemnation on them over their social views.
>>2274083nta
Well, what is your support or condemnation going to do anyways? It's not like anybody has been able to contest US hegemony before the rise of China.
>>2274083>>Just vote for the lesser of two Hitlers broNobody voted for him you spaz there was a coup.
Yes you are indeed a retard. Please come back when you are over 18.
>>2274225yeah nobody is blind about that potential.
If you go by potential, then we all have the potential to become Hitler, it does not mean shit
>>2274186Decolonial Muslims just want a comfy apartment in NY, with a lazy ass job in the 'Centre of Middle East Affairs', bitch about Iran while ignoring how the Sunnis make life hell for all other minorities, and pocket that multi thousand dollar salary.
Their opposition to 'capitalism' is nothing, it is just a buzzword so they can weasel support from leftists under the almighty 'intersectionality and convergence of struggles'. They are master opportunists.
>>2274254>no one says thisFirst off, denounce the USSR or you cant be a socialist. Clearly you are just a plant. An infiltrator from Moscow bringing red imperialism. Euro-communism is the way!
Now, prefix your every word with a scathing denunciation of the
enemies of NATO proxies of the USSR. And then lets build nothing and pretend we never were communists to begin with okay?
>>2274565>the local boirgeoisie said yesI think it makes a massive difference when their government gets to choose who operates the mine and under which terms.
secondly who said anything about communism? china is giving good deals and being a good citizen of a global order convened by capitalists. they may have to arbitrate these deals (mysteriously europeans and yanks don't ever seem to have to) and being generous, and following the conventions of international trade is going to cover their arse.
>>2274569you're right bro, beijing should outlaw public offers, and hamstring their ability to fulfill international contracts. I'm sure that they'd have equal access to commodities to drive their industrial core. it's not enough to be the most ethical player and make mutually beneficial deals. if something can't be achieved according to anon's arbitrary rules they should throw their hands up in exasperation and admit defeat.
>>2274218Cool. Why though?
Anons who shadowbox against things one never said and positions one doesn't hold need to be banned.
>>2274642Uh a few years ago or so this board was boosting him like crazy
Things do spread out from here sometimes, this board is oddly influential
>>2274813Zionism could be justified if the Jewish state was carved out of Germany rather than a country that had nothing to do with the Holocaust and European antisemitism. Regardless that's entirely sidestepping my point. Zionism isn't bad because it's a state focused on a particular nationality (though of course communists should aim to do away with this in the long term), but because it depends on ethnic cleansing, apartheid, and constant aggression against its neighbours just to exist. The leftcom position on nationality is essentially demanding that we ignore the material reality that the imperialist bourgeoisie impose on people on the basis of nationality. It would be like wagging your finger at the Jewish resistance groups in the Warsaw Ghetto for standing up and saying that they won't allow the Nazis to exterminate them for being Jewish. Nationality, race, etc can and should be abolished, but you can't do that by just pretending they don't matter. They need to be acknowledged to be dismantled, as Huey Newton said, the goal of the Black Panther Party was to abolish the need for a
Black Panther Party.
>>2274813>race and nations get created by relations that maintain these notions as reality.how it's this new for you ?.
the proletarian will only have no countries or borders when it get extinguished, until then they will have such things guiding their reality.
>>2274862You are not a proletarian
You can shut your big mouth
>>2274983Falacy infinite +1.
>>2274988Falafel
>>2274998Retards have been right too many times and deserve more respect
Intelligence is overrated
>>2279060Rumours and so on but nothing concrete.
Can you please do the bare minimum research before posting your twitter slop?
>>2283282Okay, but just saying that doesn't actually demonstrate anything. What "revolution" are you actually talking about? Who are the revolutionaries? What salutatory effects has the new government had in relation to them? Does the government have pro worker policies? Are they encouraging organizing and mobilization? What unfluence does Russia have on these developments, if any?
The French are gone, fine, but that fact alone isn't enough to prove that Traore or his government are "benefitting the revolution."
>>2283300>The Tsar is gone, fine, but that fact alone isn't enough to prove that Lenin or his government are "benefitting the revolution."It's more like the tsar is gone and I'm asking you how Kerensky's government is helping build the revolution. And as for Lenin, you're talking about a figure involved in building the revolution for decades, with concrete things to point to like his writings, or the bolshevik government's economic and social policies.
I haven't even criticized him at all. At this point all I've asked, in response to those that have affirmatively said so, what concrete things have they done to "assist in building the revolution?" Kicking out the French and nationalizing the gold mines are fine, but in themselves aren't necessarily serving "the revolution."
>>2283405It's an improvement, sure, but no, the removal of the French military is not, in itself, proof that Traore's government is "assisting in building the revolution," whatever that is supposed to mean. From previous posts in this thread, it seems like the status of Traore himself as a Marxist is ambiguous outside of past involvement with a student association. So what is this assertion that Traore or his government intend to bring the country "closer to socialism"
actually based on?
>>2283414National liberation is not sufficient but it is necessary.
>>2283428>the removal of the French military is not, in itself, proof that Traore's government is "assisting in building the revolution,"It is and I already explained why. If a communist government was in his place it would need to do exactly what he is doing vis a vis the French.
>>2283087shut the fuck up
the proletariat can onlyy fight for power when it is fighting the national bourgeoisie
A (semi) colony will not transition to socialism overnight
fuck you , fuck pannekoek, fuck bordiga and fuck your ugly armchair
>>2284316>>2274083>Hitler>AyatollahWhat the fuck does any of that shit have to do with Traore? It really seems to me that there is a contingent of people who whenever someone gets attention on the left, I guess they get insanely jealous and have to dedicate themselves fulltime to character assasination.
The OP is dumb itself, but at least he's keeping it to, "I think he's hyped for no reason." Ok fair enough, I guess you can make that take fairly without knowing much as OP said he doesn't. I guess it's a retarded way of just asking "why is there so much hype about Traore?"
But going all the way to Hitler and Ayatollah and whatever, what are you basing this on you fucking weird ass anarkiddies.
>>2272308Yeah because heâs a nationalist
Modern commies are a fucking joke and the key to the survival of the movement is to kill almost all of them
>>2284330> Yes, the Islamic Revolution was an advancement towards socialism relative to the ShahLevels of opportunism previously thought impossible
The eternal tendency of the perfidious western leftist to shill for the butcherers of communists and proles abroad so long as they say âWest badâ while they do so astounds
>>2284327It's not even internally consistent. If there is no difference between capitalism/country A and country/capitalism B, there is really no reason for you to bring Hitler into this. There is thousands upon thousands of former and current heads of state to choose from. So it seems they are aware there is a difference yet to see it is somehow uncouth / not communist / etc.
Anyway, someone comparing an anti-colonialist African leader to Hitler is not someone to talk politics with any seriousness.
There is another, somewhat adjacent thing that I can't quite get my head around. It's the charge of nationalism leveled against the leader of a country (nation). Of course someone in that position works from a framework that has this nation in mind.
I feel like these anarchists or whatever they are would like him more (find him "more communist") if he was some guy on a street corner crying
"The working man has no country. Global revolution now!"
Not that I have any beef with this hypothetical street preacher. I think it's like we are all at different stages of life and that's okay.
>>2284954If I started with myself I wouldnât be able to convince stalinists to kill themselves, now would I?
Think, Mark, think!
>>2285237You need moral reasons for communists to oppose bourgeois regimes?
Why do you fags write these strawman screeds that read identical to liberals shilling for western countries because they have welfare or elections?
Itâs like every single socdem-in-disguise has the exact same calling card
>Unless the capitalist regime is Nazi Germany socialists owe it or one of its various liberal parties support for some reason! >>2285246Is this LLM? Just repeating words over and over again isn't an argument.
Now you've repeated " bourgeois regime" two posts in a row, now you've gone back to Hitler.
I swear this must actually be an LLM.
>>2285247The fact that it was formed out of a military coup and not a proletarian revolution?
The fact that the state maintains its alienated relations to the population as noted by its ability to just impose laws onto the workers?
The fact that MLs, retards as they are, are unironically pointing to proposed welfare reforms, competition with the French, and an attempt to invest in local industries as the legit âsocialistâ credentials, rather than, say, workers seizing factories and land and operating these things themselves?
Generally how can MLs seriously claim the Third Reich wasnât a socialist government if they called themselves socialists and had a red flag?
>>2285256Anti-Imperialism is exactly like Anti-Fascism
The final defense of liberalism
>>2285255You are anti-Communist.
>Generally how can MLs seriously claim the Third Reich wasnât a socialist government if they called themselves socialists and had a red flag?Because proletarian living standard rise HUGELY in Marxist-Leninist states. Communist industry outpace capitalist by tenfold. Marxist-leninist States have no crises. Marxist-Leninist State liberated humanity from fascism.
>>2285259So Traore overthrew a communist government?
Are you trying to set a record for how many strawman you can dump at once? Props for switching it up.
So now he's:
>Opra Winfrey, Hitler, Ayatollah Khomeini, AND GorbachevHe's really all of the worst people of history in one man.
>>2285265The proletariat has no nation, communists (the ones that arenât radical liberals deeply obsessed with race and nation like yourself) donât give a damn about the right of a bourgeois democracy, military junta, or whatever the fuck else to enslave their workers; only you think race changes that calculation, fag
I really wonder how history will look back on the emergence of radlib hitlerites
>>2285270This is known as metaphysical idealism, not historical materialism
It is impossible to know how history might turn out without the Mongol invasions
>>2285260The objective of communism isnât to rise proletarian living standards
>According to my calculations you hurt my feelings big time?Fuck you and die
>>2285334lmao a sandinista owns a plantation in angola ?
wtf XD
>>2285340No I guess I always ask myself, whenever I read people like you
>How do they come out with such analyses of 20th Century butchers of communists, when, rationally, one could also say, these so-called âprogressiveâ bourgeois dictators, progressive only insofar as they opposed the West and, to this person, therefore aided the USSR through curious geopolitical calculus. How was this outcome, which occurred in the late 20th Century no less, the progressive outcome rather than a proletarian revolution that might help trigger a chain reaction in this region? How is butchering communists historically progressive when only the proletariat can move mankind past this historical era? >>2285225>other communists I don't see you as that in the slightest. You are some guy. Mostly distinguished by talking loudly, saying nothing. Politics doesn't even factor in. Politics begins somewhere else. Not exactly sure where but not at this stage.
Or to ask a follow up question, which I know is a bit loaded.
But are you under the impression you are doing politics (communism even?)?
What makes you materially communist, in a relevant way?
>>2285357>How is butchering communists historically progressiveIt isn't obviously, but these governments are progressive in spite of it.
>when only the proletariat can move mankind past this historical era?Only the proletariat can defeat capitalism, but the defeat of capitalism also requires the defeat of imperialism which the national bourgeoisie are capable of at least in a limited capacity. Therefore in a conflict between imperialism and the national bourgeoisie the latter should be supported. This does not mean these governments are beyond criticism, it doesn't mean that communists shouldn't ever oppose or work against them, it doesn't mean they should sacrifice their independence or cease regarding them as long term enemies to be overthrown. It just means that there is space for tactical alliances, and that where there are no independent proletarian forces (which communist should never cease trying to construct) that the national bourgeoisie is objectively the preferable option to imperialism because of their alignment with communists on some of the most pressing issues in colonized countries.
>>2285423>It just means that there is space for tactical alliances, and that where there are no independent proletarian forces (which communist should never cease trying to construct) that the national bourgeoisie is objectively the preferable option to imperialism because of their alignment with communists on some of the most pressing issues in colonized countries.Have you considered that retarded opportunistic fucks like you that ramble about tactical alliances with governments that slaughtered their local communists because you genuinely hope their own imperialist ambitions might somehow weaken your own imperialist government even an inch is a major part of why no âindependent proletarian forceâ exists?
Maybe communists being cowardly scum begging foreign national regimes to save them is a massive part of the issue? Maybe the fact that all western communism truly amounts to is shilling for foreign states is a massive part of the issue??
>>2285450>Only the proletariat can defeat imperialism anonIn the long term that's true, but in the short and medium term the national bourgeoisie can be a critical ally.
>Lenin was not some opportunist cockroachLenin openly advocated alliances with national bourgeois governments.
>>2285377Of course you donât, you think communism is an aesthetic that centers on worship for past regimes and hatred for the West (in an aesthetic sense, since MLoids are capitalist shills in reality)
You probably couldnât explain why the Nazis were not socialist other than saying they were westerners and hated the USSR lmao
>>2285522Because you can't read a fucking thread.
The sabocat retard said that kicking out the French is building the revolution because that's what the communists would have done. The direct comparison was made to the Iranian revolution kicking out the shah, because by the same logic, that's what the communists would have had to do as well. The direct comparison serves to highlight that just because Traore is doing something that communists would have had to do in his place, that act alone isn't enough to conclusively establish that he's "building the revolution," regardless of what idealist morons itt say about it, since ultimately the ayatollah regime killed the communists and has been a fucking arch reactionary since its inception.
Do you fucking get it now?
>>2285287>Iâm not mad at the bourgeois dictator at all, Iâm sick of the fact that almost every self-described âcommunistâ is actually just a radical liberals that adhere to the notion that all hitherto existing history has been the history of national struggleSo exactly what I said:
>>2284327>It really seems to me that there is a contingent of people who whenever someone gets attention on the left, I guess they get insanely jealous and have to dedicate themselves fulltime to character assassination.Jesus do you ever get tired of bitching? I am tired of faggots like yourself bitching. No one likes you, no one will ever follow you, listen to you, respect you. You're like a 200lb pimply faced nerd that touches no grass and no ass, and the only satisfaction you can get out of life is trying to tear down those you're jealous of. The saddest part is if you're really holding out hope this will get you any of that positive attention ever that you so desperately crave.
>>2283979>>2284180>>2284860you know there are Marxist historians that proved that Marx was spoon-fed the incorrect information about Bolivar? had he been in Bolivar's time, go to Venezuela, he would've sided with El Libertador.
One quick way to prove this is:
<Marx adored the liberal generals that did the Liberal Triennium in Spain, among other things, because he saw revolutionary potential>The series of articles Revolutionary Spain was written by Marx for the New-York Daily Tribune between August and November 1854. Marx observed all the symptoms of the revolutionary movement in Europe and paid much attention to the revolutionary events in the summer of 1854 in Spain. He held that the revolutionary struggle there could provide a stimulus for the development of the revolutionary movement in other European countries.https://www.marxists.org/archive/marx/works/1854/revolutionary-spain/index.htmAnd, Antonio Alatorre, Mexican Linguistic said the following:
<The circumstances, vicissitudes and fortunes of the independence struggles may have varied greatly from one Spanish-American region to another, but in all aspects they basically constituted a movement planned and directed by Creoles and some mestizos, men of great culture, many of whom - Hidalgo, BolĂvar, Sucre, San MartĂn - shared a way of thinking no different from that of many Spaniards. The coincidences in the vision of the permanent or circumstantial evils of Spain (absolutism and repression, for example) were such that the Spaniard Francisco Javier Mina (one of the Spanish generals from Liberal Triennium) could fight in Mexico for freedom against Ferdinand VII, exactly as if he had done so in Spain.Alatorre, A. 1001 Años de la Lengua Española, pp. 293-294.
Here's enough evidence to prove Marx was poorly informed, but Marxists historians who have studied Marx's opinion on the Latin American revolutions provided also information on who and what was spoon-feeding all that trashy information.
>>2285801>the fact that he is nationalizing key industries instead of being a shitty neocolonial raw material base for western corpos doesn't mean nothing to you, you fool?Why would it? That sounds like what you would do if youâre interested in developing your domestic industries to become a competitive actor on the world stage. Communism is when you just arenât a puppet of the West? At any rate Burkina Faso probably canât avoid falling into the warring camps the world is dividing into, so whether it ends up some other form of neocolony remains to be seen I suppose.
>like the other anon said, for you empty words of worker internationalism is more communist than thatNo shit revolution is more communist than anything youâre talking about, do you also believe in mixed economies?
>which is like saying that a working class guy reading ayn rand is more capitalist than an actual guy doing capitalist thingsMore like saying a small business owner is a capitalist even if they have a single employee or no employees at all
>>2285893Theyâre actually criticizing two core arguments MLs make:
1. That âtryingâ to achieve socialism (whatever that even means) = achieving socialism, or, the âcapitalism can be socialism if we do it fairly and rationallyâ argument (socdem in essence but edgy)
2. That âif X countries were not socialism then socialism has yet to succeed anywhere/the sacrifices meant nothing!?â argument, i.e., real material analysis is supposed to make me feel good argument
MLs generally aggressively refuse to meet the criticisms they face from other Marxists in good faith, which might imply their stances are more emotional than analytical in nature
>>2285901traore is an antiimperialist that is actively building economic sovereignty in west africe. this is anti-colonial. this weakens the imperialist system. this is good.
no one is claiming that it's socialism
no one is making a moralist argument.
>>2285887Marx actually argues that exactly what makes socialism possible is the socialization of the productive process and the interlinking of the entire world via capitalâs globally destructive expansion, to argue socialism (a state of affairs to be established in the minds of MLs, as evident by their disbelief in the understanding that it is the existence of the proletariat itself that makes revolution possible) requires global autarkic parochial societies (assuming industrial societies can even exist in this way) seems to be a hard revision to Marxâs analysis
Can you justify this revision?
>>2285901>That âtryingâ to achieve socialism (whatever that even means) = achieving socialismwell yes? or do you mean "achieving communism?
>âcapitalism can be socialism if we do it fairly and rationallyâ again yes, a rationally planned market economy under a centralized state democratically representing the dictatorship of the proletariat is socialism. capitalism is private production for profit. public production for national development according to the democratic will of the people is not capitalism.
>âif X countries were not socialism then socialism has yet to succeed anywhere/the sacrifices meant nothing!?âwhat are you trying to say? tankies do not say real communism has never been tried
>>2285909>the interlinking of the entire worldon a national basis
>Can you justify this revision?ive already provided textual sources from marx for my position. its your turn now
>>2285906The argument is actually that swapping out the old masters to make the current overseers the new masters for the slaves obviously isnât freedom or especially self-abolition of the franchise by the slaves themselves.
Do you think the turncoat potential compradors are the people that get exploited in the neocolonial regime? Do you think the proletariat leads military juntas?
Youâre a clown
>>2286032That's incorrect. This is what I am talking about. You faggots have absolutely zero knowledge on the subject yet you virulent hate him.
I should of said it earlier, but I know exactly why. No need to guess or ask you to come up with another lie.
<you simply hate him because he is allied with Muh putterLike the OP got at.
I have you faggot anarkiddies so much.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/interactive/2025/africa-sahel/militias-islamic-extremism-violence/
>In Burkina Faso, the Volunteers for the Defense of the Homeland (VDP), a militia group, has been established to combat violent extremists. >>2286049>>2286060The identity of the face of X bourgeois nation-state is irrelevant to this, lol.
Not beating the lib allegations.
>>2285922Underling own and their is not a augment against what that anon is saying. He is making the correct take that it is not enough to usurp the current colonial/neo colonial rulers while keeping the structures that reproduces the same old relationships.
We've seen the history of so-called anti colonialists in Africa overthrow a class of comprador only to become the new comprador. For all the anti-imperialist rhetoric if it is not matched by a definite change or move to change the workers' relationship to the means of production ala Cuba then it's just talk. This does not mean nationalization of industries or of resources, many capitalist states like Saudi Arabia have most if not all of their important industries and resources under state control. You need to see if there is anything beyond the rhetoric which for the most part there not. Traore is zelensky, a pretty face that paper over the contradictions kept over from the previous comprador government.
Seeing the french and us get sand kicked into their faces is nice to see but there needs to be more behind this to justified any real emotional investment in Traore or the other juntas. They have done nothing so far that others haven't and in some cases like with Algeria they have antagonized nations with much better track records of actually kicking in euro-imperialist teeth.
>>2286072>You think I donât know about the militias? Yes because you just said:
>>2286032>He invited European mercs instead of training his citizens to defend themselves to deal with the terrorist threatsWhich counte rindicates your knowledge of it. So either you were ignorant, or you knew and were deliberately lying. I gave you the benefit of the doubt.
>>2286079>We've seen the history of so-called anti colonialists in Africa overthrow a class of comprador only to become the new comprador.do you have any examples of this with material analysis? which anti-colonialists became the new compradors? are they the same people? when did they turn? what were the global factors at play? etc
then answer the same questions for troare and contrast and compare. without analysis of the actual these vague declarations mean nothing and amount to chauvinism
>>2286096Somalia, South Africa, Egypt and the like.
All Troare has to do is move BF onto the socialist path of development, like in Cuba and the USSR. Abolish the old the government structures and replace them with socialist ones . As
>>2286091 post shows all he's done in put faces in places of the old governing order via decree without any input of the proletariat, It's blanquism at best not communism. The working class has no power in this government, with Sankara the workers ran the government while the military's job was to defend and expand the revolution. Instead Troare's junta is running the government, like in Egypt and Sudan.
Also what's chauvinist about my take? I'm not against national liberation but it must be undertaken by the proletariat itself so that it's interests are maintained. Liberation of the nation without liberation of proletariat is not Marxist.
>>2286146>Somalia, South Africa, Egypt and the like. which leaders? when? from what year to what year? which policies? what were their relations with the ussr and china? what led to revisionism? which countries were they being liberated from? which industries did they control? why did development fail?
which policies of bf are you critical of? who is the working class? are they against troare? what are the numbers? use links dont just claim it to be so
>Also what's chauvinist about my take?that you would lump an entire continent together as collaborators without investigation or even pretending to have a single concrete example
>>2285454So you chose not to try answering the question and assume things. Let's try going over it one more time then.
You can call yourself whatever you like, you can call yourself a camel, a window shade, the question is why is it relevant (why should anyone else care). How do you not understand this?
As for your nonsense argument, which has nothing at all to do with the discussion about an African leader.
I have been all over central europe. I'm not gonna discuss this topic with you.
Let me ask another question in turn. How's your german?
Again, it's not at all relevant to this thread. I know more than you, in general.
I tire of interacting with anglo trash. Westoids in general but anglos in particular.
>>2285873>That sounds like what you would do if youâre interested in developing your domestic industries to become a competitive actor on the world stage.You can't successfully realize a DotP without your state being somewhat sovereign so that nobody comes fucking around because you are for everyone to take, so this sum points towards a revolution.
>Communism is when you just arenât a puppet of the West? At any rate Burkina Faso probably canât avoid falling into the warring camps the world is dividing into, so whether it ends up some other form of neocolony remains to be seen I suppose.No, not even China and USSR were communists, but the point in question was that TraorĂ©'s Burkina Faso represent an advancement for the communist cause and not a regression not an indifferent move
>No shit revolution is more communist than anything youâre talking about, do you also believe in mixed economies? Revolution in a ful ML way would, but since there is not, TraorĂ©'s Burkina Faso represents a greater step towards socialism and communism than empty words of any leftcom fag on the earth, and also than any leftcom action ever, since they have never done shit
>More like saying a small business owner is a capitalist even if they have a single employee or no employees at allThis is so wrong, your opinions on what communism should do in realistic terms is only words no action, so it is even less than a bourgeois with only on employee, it is a guy that has not even a single asset larping as a capitalist. On the other hand, even if Traoré's BF is not a full fledged DotP, it is far more than any anarkiddie heterotopia super mega communist occupation of liberated zone or whatever, which in exchange of some abstract ideal of ideological purity gives nothing in return but some stupid dream for the usual unrealistic and unpractical leftist lotophages.
>>2285882
>Communism is just when you nationalize certain productive forces and ally with Russia and China, and that's it. If you try to do anything beyond that then it's liberalism.No it is not, but it definitely requires that at some point. The reason you are expressing this trauma is probably because your leftcom event of choice has had some CIA/USA or otherwise anti-communist-camp funding or help, such as rojava, or because you are anarkiddie.
>>2283486Still, all this abstract "everything is the same and nothing that is not outerly presented as a communist event is good" have yet to answer this
and also, they have neither answered this:
>>2273868which completely demonstrates that changing overseer from france to russia represents an improvement for burkina faso and not the same.
And nobody is able to give the sabocat anon a good rejoinder in his line of argument that ends at:
>>2274823I underline the following
>he leftcom position on nationality is essentially demanding that we ignore the material reality that the imperialist bourgeoisie impose on people on the basis of nationality. It would be like wagging your finger at the Jewish resistance groups in the Warsaw Ghetto for standing up and saying that they won't allow the Nazis to exterminate them for being Jewish. Nationality, race, etc can and should be abolished, but you can't do that by just pretending they don't matter. They need to be acknowledged to be dismantled, as Huey Newton said, the goal of the Black Panther Party was to abolish the need for a Black Panther Party.yes, the anon is right, in your line of thought you are treating real, effective phenomena as mere appereance: nationality, the state, the local bourgeoise… while completely ignoring the actual framework of power, full of determinations for which you actually need to know some actual global and local/regional data in the realms of economy, sociology (ethnicities, what they work on etc.) and geopolitics as well as domestic politics… anyway you are doing away with all of that in the name of some idealistic purity that, precisely because it ignores this effective conditions that exist IN REALITY (not just in people's heads), is completely ineffectual and remains your own particular way to cope with reality instead of changing it, while denouncing events that, even if not in a perfect way, are changing it in a direction that is generally favorable. Like the sabocat anon said, TraorĂ©s BF, Iran post islamic revolution, even if it sounds absurd to you, are phenomena which are slowly, not perfectly, but effectively establishing some of the conditions for a future revolution, unlike the countries which are under USA/NATO/Finantial capital's grips. TraorĂ©s BF is especially nice compared to other considering the backward economic condition that french colonialism has imposed on the country, disabling the developement of the institutions of the state and even of the working class itself. The military junta form this movement has adopted has been explained by the following anon:
>>2272386something no one has addressed yet
You also make the completely kindergarten mistake of thinking that political events are innerly coherent with their outer appereance, so that if something that presents itself as non communist is therefore completely useless or counterproductive for communism, as if reality was like a grand strategy game with definite completely unambigous events and factions and we just have to paint the whole world red… You know nothing of history and politics and should just lurk, unless you are just some stupid glowies, in which case, great propaganda work guys i congratulate you
>>2287067pathetic, as if it was shameful to praise an anon and refer to him by the flag he is using, i could have just said "this anon" i didnt know it would hurt your delicate bitch ass palate
>>2287069>So now the argument is both "communism is unrealistic" and "anti-communist things are actually communist if I want them to be". This board is a fucking dumpster fire<completely ignoring marx's own argument praising Poland's indipendence as a precondition for communism<completely bypassing all the substance of the argument and presenting it in an abstract and easely mockable waythat is not even the argument. I am a Marxist, i believe the tides of history in the long run are with us. But i also believe it is a mistake to dismiss any event just because it has not presented itself as communist. And the islamic revolution, while anti-communist, is not, by the quote you have not answered, not an anti-marxist event, as a country's gaining of sovereignty is a precondition for a DotP. But you have not addressed the quote, none of the arguments, and not even sabocat anon's arguments, you have not took the time and therefore you should lurk instead of succumbing to your irresistible sissy urges to cry
>>2287074Typing a lot of bullshit doesn't make you more right. No, I'm not bothering to go through and refute point by point because all your points amount to taking bourgeois states that did something progressive and spicing them up as if Karl Marx himself had descended from the heavens to make them happen. For god's sake you literally have people defending Iran killing communists because "they're trots".
National liberation is fine and good, and better than being colonized, but all this just reeks of desperation to find something "Marxist" in a world where nobody cares about Marxism anymore except to invoke it rhetorically and the most change people want to the present state of things is different geopolitical alignments. If we've really been reduced to trying to act like national liberation in and of itself is some communism win even when they kill communists and show no signs of implementing socialism, then communism is well and truly dead.
>>2287041>You can't successfully realize a DotP without your state being somewhat sovereign so that nobody comes fucking around because you are for everyone to take, so this sum points towards a revolution.Except there's been presented no evidence at all presented in this thread that Traore desires or intends to establish a dotp except for the fact that kicking the French army out is a prerequisite for doing so. Or more specifically that it's benefitting/ building a "revolution" which also hasn't been defined itt.
What Traore has done so far is good for BF at least, but that's all that can really be said at this point. The only data points that seem to have been confirmed are just that 1. He kicked out the French military, 2. He nationalized the gold mines, 3. That he's aligning BF politically and economically with BRICS, 4. That he's fighting the Islamists in the Sahel.
Everything else is just idealist cope and wishful thinking.
>>2287082no one has said that traoré INTENDS, that he innerly and privately has the WISH for doing that, and it is completely irrelevant if he has those intentions or intimate desires or whatever, what matters are the conditions. Tsarist russia also didn't intend to create the conditions for a DotP and it did unintentionally.
on the other hand, i agree with the rest of what you said, as my argument that Traore's regime represent a step forward, unlike other bitchy anons arguing that it is the same shit
>>2287074<completely ignoring marx's own argument praising Poland's indipendence as a precondition for communismExcept in reality Poland's independence was used to fight the communists, both their own as they cracked down on their native soviets and foughtv against the soviet union, before becoming a fascist dictatorship and putting communists in concentration camps. And now today, where is a reactionary state that also takes a very active role in fighting communism.
"On a long enough timeline everything helps build communism" is just nonsense.
>>2287094>Except in reality Poland's independence was used to fight the communists,there was like 100 years of difference between the events.
Marx had seen what Poland became he would support the first, condemned the later.
>>2287098Iâm glad MLs finally admit communism is fucking dead and all thatâs left is hoping fascists weaken the West in some way
Most of this board deserves death
>>2287096>Marx made some wrong predictions!Such as?
<He forgot the importance of race, nation, myth, and human will!Ah
Yes
>>2287107No country can be âindependentâ in the imperialist epoch, retarded cunt
Lenin unveiled this over a century ago but MLs will never get over their eternal fascination with Hitlerite nonsense
Second Thought, Hakim, Yugopnik, and Ben Norton genuinely should be shot for the cancer they have unleashed among the already stupid as shit online left
>>2286593Am I supposed to give a damn about this manâs race and nationality?
I am not an ML, I donât adhere to âtheoriesâ about racially pure and morally righteous ethnographic groups
>>2287114Indeed
The weakness of Marxâs theories are that he forgot the organic relationship interlinking the race, the nation, and the volk together
Class struggle, like internationalism, is a jewish imposition on Trve NATIONAL socialisms!Praise Ferdinand Lasalle
>>2287139Lmao Iâm saying Marx was clearly wrong about race and nation because the entire thread is essentially arguing this lmao
MLoids should stop being belligerent idpol obsessed retards if they donât want people to use their own explicit defenses for capitalism against them
>>2287096we focus on marx because he wrote the book on how to use rhetoric for tricking people into giving power to fascists. if every communism just results in another authoritarian state then we must conclude that is its purpose and oppose it at every turn. liberals at least let us vote to get rid of the state its just a matter of convincing everyone we are right
>>2287104>Most of this board deserves deathwow anon dont lower yourself to the level of the commies. just because they are violent and dont respect the democratic process doesn't mean we have to be
(USER WAS BANNED FOR THIS POST) >>2287264im just tired of this
>marx didn't support>oh he did?>marx was wrong>communism is overultras need to keep marx and lenin out of their mouths and say what they really mean from the beginning instead of this cowardly circle jerk bullshit. first we get people who think lenin was a revisionist but still misusing his theory of imperialism to shit on leninists despite thinking lenin was wrong in the first place. now that people quote marx over lenin they are doing it with marx and pretending like quoting him is an appeal to his authority rather then an example of his theoretical method applied in practice.
its like they dont even know anarchism exists so they adopt the most obscure cultist sect of "marxism" they can find
>>2287125Where?
>>2287123You are first of all supposed to stop evading the simple question. But really it doesn't matter what you do, as you well know.
>>2287714I answered your bad faith question by recognizing it for the radlib nonsense it is, the only person that cares about race here is you
A more deserving response to your question would be to slam a brick in your face, but obviously I canât see you physically
>>2287789I think you are quite confused if you are not just trying to get on my nerves at this stage.
The question was precisely what you do materially, physically, in reality that makes you communist whatsoever.
I already know you don't speak or read german, that was a response to the deflection about Hitler and such nonsense you people "bring to the discussion"
>>2287065>"everything is the same and nothing that is not outerly presented as a communist event is good"This doesn't deserve so much as a response. Which I will make nonetheless here but only once (more). In the end it turned out way too long now that I got started on this line of thinking, this response to say "don't respond" but, oh well, I can maybe recycle it later.
It brings to mind the guy ("libertarian" "socialism" tendeny) that told Parenti "I don't care about the children that get fed by the revolution".
The correct response isn't even outrage but just ignoring them totally. If you are not interacting with reality as is, you are not relevant, you are not engaged in politics, by definition and by design.
Your main characteristic isn't "being communist" but arrogance, indifference and a general detachment from reality. "I don't care about poverty or reality in general even" is something that can only come from someone that is doing too well. I don't wanna be racist here but I'm gonna be. It's a particular mix of arrogance and ignorance that can only persist in a certain kind of lifestyle. And really what are you communicating. It's like entering a discussion just to announce "I don't care about that". Okay and why should we care that you don't care? The most natural action would be to leave, exit the discussion but they have something that keeps them from doing that persistently. I am unsure as to what really but it's ostensibly a need to not have the idea of communism tarnished by any association with the real world or something to that effect.
This shit was cute
when you were in your 20s when the US wasn't ramping up the war propaganda and we weren't outwardly and obviously in a cold war.
but
now you're pushing 30 now even the dimmest guy should see what the hell's up.
I am forced into agreement here with the anarchist/libertarian pope. It's better to have a world-view, (one that has some connection to what happens in reality, this world we live in) even if it happens to be a false one.
https://thetricontinental.org/newsletterissue/hunger-poverty-inequality/Anyway, Tricontinental's newsletter mentions Burkina Faso.
>>2287834> If you are not interacting with reality as is, you are not relevant, you are not engaged in politics, by definition and by design.<'s better to have a world-view, (one that has some connection to what happens in reality, this world we live in) even if it happens to be a false one.You are so close, anon, just take the 'politics are what you physically and materially do, not what you profess to believe'-Pill.
>Anyway, Tricontinental's newsletter mentions Burkina Faso.Thanks.
>>2287842That was (partly) the point.
>>2287293It's fighting Stalin with Lenin and fighting Lenin with Marx. Yes, there is nothing genuine about it. It's pure anti-communism.
>>2287834I don't know btw why I wrote US there. It's the whole of the west with the EU trying to invest trillions of euros they don't have in armaments while the US is doing business as usual, notwithstanding some bluster.
>>2291603I'm convinced half the shitty threads here made on a daily bases are only to push off all more interesting but slow moving threads from the catalogue.
Jannies should be better at banning people who make endless worthless OP's.
>>2292356Literally going to build more KM of new roads every year than currently exists in the country.
Traoré may transform BF, even before a potential full merger of the sahel states under AES.
>>2292266No
Afrikangs are too busy obliterating the snow bunny pussies
No time to waste of loser imageboards
>>2294159A few big african creators made actual videos on him and he's already very popular both continent wide and in diaspora so probably a large part of it is just youtube AI outfits out of india pumping out content that's related to what's doing well.
The nature of YT and AI is also that it's more profitable to smash out the same thing or with minor variations thousands of times than just once.
>>2294162>Traore is cutting the price on medicine.Thanks but that wasn't a very useful post anon, could you not have shared a article or link?
Access to essential generic medicines: Minister Kargougou announces reduction in public sale pricesThe Minister of Health, Dr. Robert Kargougou, held a press conference on Monday, May 26, 2025, on the reduction in the prices of essential generic medicines. This measure applies to both public health facilities and approved private structures.
According to Minister Kargougou, these measures are in line with the vision of His Excellency, Captain Ibrahim Traoré, which is to guarantee the availability and financial accessibility of essential health products for all populations wherever they are.
During his opening statement, the Minister of Health presented the background, the process for adopting the joint decrees, and the main innovations in the measures. He notably announced the reduction in markups applied to essential generic medicines and medical consumables in public and contracted healthcare facilities.
Minister Kargougou also indicated that price reductions vary depending on the product category.
He also stated that special efforts have been made on certain strategic products, including antivenom serum, meningococcal vaccine and rabies vaccine, with a reduction. These reductions also affect vaccines administered to travelers, particularly during the pilgrimage to Mecca.
The reduction in the prices of the ACWY-135 meningococcal and yellow fever vaccines, estimated at around 241 million CFA francs per year, represents a contribution by CAMEG to the provision of healthcare to the population.
As a reminder, this initiative aims to improve citizens' financial accessibility to health products, in line with the authorities' commitment to strengthening health coverage and alleviating household expenses in a difficult economic context.
https://www.sante.gov.bf/detail?tx_news_pi1%5Baction%5D=detail&tx_news_pi1%5Bcontroller%5D=News&tx_news_pi1%5Bnews%5D=1038&cHash=d304aade289c43b422c63ef3b41d0a69also:
https://fr.apanews.net/news/le-burkina-annonce-une-baisse-des-prix-des-medicaments-essentiels/ >>2294206Among the measures announced by the minister, a reduction in commercial margins has been introduced.
District distribution depots saw their margins drop from 7.5% to 6%, while those applied in public health facilities fell from 30% to 25%.
Price-wise, the reductions range from up to 46% on tablets; 55% on injectable forms; between 1% and 20% on syrups and up to 25% for other pharmaceutical forms.
Vaccines and serums are also experiencing reductions. Antivenom serum has dropped drastically from 21,833 CFA francs to 2,000 CFA francs, a reduction of 90.84%. The yellow fever vaccine has seen a 15% reduction. The ACYW-135 meningococcal vaccine has seen a 16.62% reduction, and the rabies vaccine has seen a 72.14% reduction.
The reduction measure also comes at a time when the Central Purchasing Agency for Essential Generic Medicines (CAMEG), which became a state-owned company in March 2024, has stepped up its efforts to improve the availability of pharmaceutical products.
>>2295542>Dying old man>>2295550Based
>>2295553Dying old man who really hates his job.
>>2284841anti colonial national liberation should under no circumstances be falsely equated with imperialist chauvinism. Read the works of comrade Vo Nguyen Giap.
https://www.marxists.org/archive/giap/index.htmEspecially this one
https://www.marxists.org/archive/giap/works/1975/to-arm-the-revolutionary-masses/ch01.htmQuote
>It was at a time when capitalism was passing into the stage of imperialism that Lenin set forth his famous new thesis that socialism cannot be simultaneously successful in all countries but it will first succeed in one or a certain number of countries. At the same time, with the new theory on the leadership of the proletariat in the bourgeois democratic revolution and the transition from this revolution to the proletarian revolution, Lenin and the Russian Bolshevik Party worked out the military programme of the bourgeois democratic revolution and the socialist revolution in Russia. Lenin underlined the necessity of building up the military organization of the proletariat in the new historical conditions:Another
>Only with the birth of Marxism and the appearance of the political parties of the proletariat, which became an independent political force passing from the stage of âspontaneityâ to that of âconsciousnessâ and bringing a qualitative leap forward to the whole of the proletariatâs revolutionary struggle â only on that basis could the problem of the military organization of the exploited masses be completely solved in the military science of the proletariat. The appearance of political parties of the working class â Communist parties â on the political arena and their leading role in the revolution in various countries led to the birth of armed formations of a marked revolutionary and popular nature, born within proletarian revolution or bourgeois democratic, peopleâs democratic or national liberation revolutions led by the working class. Especially, since the success of the Russian October Revolution and of the revolutions in a series of other socialist countries in Europe, Asia and Latin America, there has appeared for the first time in the world a completely new type of armed forces. These are the real armed forces of the people, of the State of proletarian dictatorship â the most progressive State in the history of mankind. >>2296430His Substack is here (in French):
https://rahmane.substack.com/His essays are very complex and attempting to sum them up will probably over-simplify things. But I'm going to break down some of the themes into categories. Here's the first part.
<Pre-Colonial structures in Sahelian societiesThis is nothing extraordinary about this. The pre-colonial structures in the Sahel were similar to ancien regimes in Europe (which had aristocracies, the clergy, and the merchant bourgeoisie). There were communities variously described as "acephalous political communities" and also canton-states, which were similar to European lordships. In the latter, there was a military aristocracy, a college of priests and/or Muslim holy men, and a community of merchants (mostly organized in lineages). The head of state was occupied by the chief of the military aristocracy.
French colonization only partially changed this. The French continued to treat the people of the Sahel as
subjects, not citizens, but it did introduce a civilian political elite which didn't exist before. As a result, the political history of the Sahel since then has been a conflict between these two elites: civilian and military. The civilian elite relies on the norms inherited from the French metropole. (It's common for civilian elites to urge the military to act in a "republican" way.) But there is, in fact, something endogenous to military power in the Sahel and it benefits from a longer historical memory.
<It's not a question of "if" there's going to be a coup, but when – a matter of statistical probability.It's not a surprise when a coup happens. In Niger, there have been five coups in the past few decades, so this is not a break from the past. There have been at least 10 documented coups or coup attemps in Burkina Faso since the 1960s. That's also true for the generals and colonels currently in charge of Niger, Mali, and Burkina Faso. Traore there is in charge because he overthrew the last military officer who came to power in a coup eight months prior. It's probably only a matter of time before Traore also gets ousted by his own military. But that leads to another interesting thing about this.
<Coups are popular, and these coups were.Idrissa calls them (literally translated from French into English) "democratic police operations." The reality is that the civil elites were themselves quite authoritarian in their attitudes too and also incompetent, partisan, and ludicrously corrupt – while also failing to resolve the serious problems, namely the security problem posed by unrelenting jihadi violence. The heads of state (more so in Mali and Niger) were unwilling and not able to be subject to impeachment, so it falls on the army to make "the last argument of the people." The military directly intervening in politics is frightening, and the soldiers will stomp you to death or throw you in prison if you oppose them, and it's a form of rule based on command. But there are popular tendencies in the Sahel that are quite favorable to this, and popular euphoria occurs in tandem with military coups.
It's banal, but it's common to see bus and taxi drivers decorate their vehicles with images of famous military leaders. He doesn't think this kind of thing has to do with French colonialism but their traditions from their ancien regimes. And, as a matter of fact, the military doesn't move unless there's popular discontent. It's baffling to Western observers to see the "popularity" of the putsches, but that's because they literally are POPULAR putsches, responding to the wishes of the population. The fact is they've never really made a revolution that established a civil state like France did which seperated the military from politics.
<The overthrow of GaddafiThis had a big effect and he's extremely negative about the role of the West in Libya. There's a long history as well here, and there were armed Tuareg groups who were chilling in Libya who then moved south, and there are lots of weapons that flooded into the Sahel from Gaddafi's stockpiles. Idrissa also saw Gaddafi as having a stabilizing role in the Sahel (in part by restraining the Tuaregs and funding Sufi Islam to check the radical Salafist jihadists), and was seen by Africans generally as a rare African leader who put his money where his mouth is in promoting the African cause. Nothing predisposed Africans to support Putin against NATO more than NATO precipitating the fall and murder of Gaddafi.
>>2296740<The popular sentiment that the Sahelian juntas tapped into is a complex mixture of different sentiments from different people with different backgrounds. The hotpot of ideologies can be summed up as "sovereigntism."This is includes 21st-century Pan-Africans, religious Muslims, Christians, and "traditionalists." And also what Idrissa calls "culturalists" which is a very small minority; i.e. Kemites, who are a strange Hotep-like cult movement which traces their descent to ancient Egypt. There are also people like Kemi Seba (he's also a Duginist) who he describes as a fascist. There are also anti-imperialist and left-nationalist intellectuals who dream of a war between Russia and the West, in which Russia destroys the West, and that will free Africa. It's like that multipolar stuff you see on this website all the time.
A related tendency is Afro-Pessimism. This really emerged in the 80s/90s and defines Africa through its historical abjection, slavery, colonialism, and the tragic consequences. "Africa is therefore a universe devastated by the hatred and greed of the world, and if the modern world is by definition hostile to Africanness, the only conceivable solution is secession from the modern world." This is like a secular equivalent of Salafism.
This doesn't mean that Francophone Africans don't have legitimate and objective grievances with France. "But sovereignists also and above all have subjective grievances, which date back at least to 1492, if not further." These subjective grievances can't be satisfied and don't lend themselves to solutions. It's basically a negative ideology, and the attraction to Russia (like in other parts of the world, including some populist rightists in the West) is more because they identify Russia as having the same enemy. People like Nigel Farage, Eric Zemmour, and Tucker Carlson also depict their countries as victims of colonization except it's through immigration. There's not a huge difference between the crowds that came out to cheer these juntas and the J6ers in Washington.
<This kind of thiking is distinct from Marxism-Leninism of the 1960sIdrissa contrasts this "bubble" (more on this later) with a progressive project in the Sahel in the 1960s. This is complicated, but to start with, there are two competing tendencies in the Sahel, which he refers to as "self-critics" and "victims." In a Sahelian context, the "self-critics" are on the left, and the "victims" are on the right. But this is not apparent in the West, because the left is fighting their own right, which has racist and chauvinist views towards Africa, and the Western left is highly sympathetic to people who were colonized. The Western left therefore is not keen to criticize Africans because (a) they don't know much about Africa and (b) they don't want to lend ammunition to the right in their own societies and what they say about Africans. But it's not at all the case that the people who espouse this "victim" ideology which blames the West for Africa's problems are progressive in their own context.
However, in the 1960s, these tendencies were combined. There was both a real attempt in the Sahel by a coalition of trade unionists, feminists, peasants, etc. to decolonize
and self-critique their own regressive legacies (feudalism, obscurantism, etc.) of the "archaic and backward" past from the point of view of societal progress through single-party states operating under the principle of democratic centralism. But this began to recede in the 1970s. Thomas Sankara was the last attempt to revive it, but he was not successful. So this basically reactionary and conservative-identitarian "victim" ideology (stemming from Afro-Pessimism) emerged out of complicated mixture of that collapse, the limited empathy of the West towards Africa, feelings of humiliation, and a real decline in development, punctuated by racist stuff said about Africans from French politicians like Nicolas Sarkozy.
But under these juntas, practically everyone who Idrissa identifies as part of the self-critical tendency (which I'm assuming includes himself as well) has been exiled, imprisoned, or forced into strict and complete self-censorship. While those on the "victim" team have fgound a regime they needed, one that basically sees itself in a constant war.
<A lot of this is a self-contradictory ideological delusionIdrissa notes that the anti-French sentiment as it's expressed by these people doesn't actually make a lot of sense if you think about it. It borders on the toxic and stupid at worst. It's quite common for example for Sahelians to claim that France is behind the jihadists who are destroying these countries, but the same people accuse France of betraying them for also saying "fuck it" and pulling out of the Sahel when they kicked them out (although the French were very offended at first). For one, all of these military officers were trained by the French army anyways, and they were also fighting the same jihadists as the French before they kicked out the French. But when French troops there were fighting the jihadists, it was a widespread belief among people that the French were only there to distribute weapons to the jihadists. This is not based on fact, but feelings, and that cannot be contradicted by facts.
But think about it from the perspective of an ordinary guy. Shit sucks. There's really murderous jihadi violence, and now there are French troops everywhere and they're rolling around in armored vehicles, shooting at people, and getting directly involved in conflicts between the locals. So what that guy understands is that the situation is unbearable, and the French – objectively speaking too – are not actually defeating the jihadists. But in the mind of that guy, he wonders, why haven't they? And that guy has a smartphone which is connected to the internet. And that's an opportunity for populists and political "speculators" to tell him ~stories~ about how the French are actually in cahoots with the jihadists as part of a conspiracy so the French can take over the country, so the solution is to get rid of the French. This comes from a social atmosphere of negative emotions: fear, resentment, distrust, and in some cases hatred. Built on the trauma and shock of what NATO – including France – did to Gaddafi.
This is not totally crazy BTW. Anti-French sentiment is quite longstanding in the Sahel, stemming quite naturally from colonial domination, French support for various coups in the decades following that, the role of French mercenaries, and the ongoing (before the coups) French military presence in the Sahel which people took to be an imposition. You can sum that up as a neocolonial framework known as "Françafrique" which aims to protect the strategic interests of France, and which in turns has constructed an image in the minds of people of a diabolical French hyperpower and the resulting hatred.
The catch is that the French are no longer a running concern here. The French have stopped giving a fuck about the Sahel. It's only Africans who haven't realized this yet. They still treat France as a devil that's responsible for all their problems. It sounds like Russiagate stuff but in the Sahel. France (and the West in particular, but especially France) is apparently behind everything (and I mean EVERYTHING) bad, but the Sahelians can just say "fuck you" to France, and France apparently can't do anything about it. France is both all-powerful and weak and the West is in decline, right? That's a contradictory ideology. But it did unite (for different reasons) people with different ideologies.
>"These beliefs are ideological. Among other things, this amounts to saying that there is nothing Westerners can do to change people's opinions. Even if they completely withdrew from the field, they would still be perceived as pulling the strings by any African who dared not follow the ideological directive. This directive is simple. It is a story that Africans tell themselves, in which the roles are distributed once and for all: Westerners (especially the French in the Sahel) are the bad guys, Africans are the good guys and the victims, and the struggle between the two has no end, unless perhaps the Russians manage to completely destroy the West." The Western left doesn't get this because they feel solidarity and compassion for Africans, but for humanist reasons, while the feelings of these Africans are nationalist, and some are actually on the left, but others are actually on the right.
That leads to one more thing.
>>2296749<This is an unsustainable bubble and it's probably going to implodeThe juntas coming to power and kicking the French out is like a self-deflating balloon. Idrissa likens it to a Greek tragedy. At first, there's a trigger (which in this case is the widespread craze for security), followed by the sudden rise of hubris, and then a catastrophe. This is what's happening in the Sahel. The juntas did not change reality, but people's perception of reality.
The hubris part of the bubble occurred after the coup. This is marked by "an intense feeling of power with the conviction of being right on all counts, even though those who observe him coldly from the outside measure all his weakness and all his unreason, without however their voice tinged with pity and astonishment being able to touch him. When it is collective, it manifests itself in a public euphoria swollen with absurd vanity."
But what actually happened? Western ambassadors were being bombarded by insults. These governments ordered their military contingents to skedaddle. "Rahhhh!" Down with the occupier! And what did they do? They packed up their shit and left. Military dictatorships in Africa? Oh mah gerd we're shocked at this sudden turn of events. You don't want humanitarian aid because it's part of a conspiracy to destroy your country and we're smuggling weapons to rebels in the aid trucks? Fine. We've canceled it. You deal with it. The Americans even more than the French really don't care. (The Americans care more about Libya.) The Western governments basically did… nothing. Other than the French getting mildly offended. But they're not really shocked by manifestations of anti-French sentiment in their former colonial possessions.
And the security situation hasn't gotten better. It might have become worse. It's not like the French were solving it either.
That's when the bubble started bursting. And now it has completely burst. And among significant numbers of people, a sense of stupefaction has set in. There is talk of "resignation mode" or "let's just go." These countries are now ruled by a militaryt faction and all of those satisfied by the "victim" tendency along with various grifters, and the rest of the population has fallen back into a state of being mere "subjects" to the boots. And unfortunately for them, if it was possible to agitate against civilian leaders (as worthless as they were), that is now impossible, because these juntas resort to brute force against anyone who opposes them.
Idrissa concludes in one essay:
>In this perspective, it is not surprising that when the military finally wanted to consolidate their power, they themselves burst the bubble. Francophone intellectuals, whether they called themselves progressive, revolutionary, pan-African, or otherwise, were more or less brutally marginalized, because they are part of the civilian elite, exogenous to the old Sahelian elite system and, above all, capable, if given free rein, of resuming demands and criticisms based on the norms of the civil state. Those among them who did not submit were attacked as "stateless persons," agents of France and abroad; those who did submit were nevertheless humiliated and reduced to the state of lemons to be squeezed and thrown away, like the prime ministers of Mali and Burkina Faso. On the other hand, close ties were established with religious figures (including Christians), who encourage the population to be patient and submissive.[…]
>No one will help the Sahelians regain their lost freedom. Westerners pretend to believe they want to have this military boot on their backs, and besides, they never really believed that the Sahelians were capable of democracy; ECOWAS is now nothing more than a figment of the imagination: it was truly defeated, mainly because it refused to fight. Today, dangers are emerging that will undermine it. The president of Guinea-Bissau expelled his delegation, which wanted to persuade him not to run for an unconstitutional third termâand he has moved closer to Putin, the patron saint of dictators. In Togo, Minister Dussey, who poses on his website as a Pan-African victim (he recently launched an anti-Western speech in which he says he is "tired" of having things imposed on him by the West, in a Togo that the said West has nevertheless left to simmer in peace in its Neronian dictatorship), wants to join the club of Sahel juntas - with, as a key, the provision of the port of LomĂ©; whetted by the same lucrative deal, Mahama, the new democratically elected president of Ghana, is courting the juntas, no doubt with the possible benefits for the ports of Accra and TĂ©ma in mind - this, in a country where a frustrated youth admires "President IB" (the dictator of Burkina) and tells itself golden stories about the military despot Jerry Rawlings.
>But that's not the end of the story. Despite their fear of the beret and the legacies of history, Sahelians have risen up against military power on several occasions, at least in Burkina Faso and Mali; and even among the military, there are "civilians," or more precisely, republicans, who remain silent or sometimesâespecially in Burkinaâare "purged." The discourse is changing, to the point that even the seemingly hated France is regaining sympathy. This kind of thing always heralds a shift in opinions and attitudes. If juntas don't adapt by changing course in time, a dangerous convergence could occur between increasingly expressive popular anger and the increased risks of a republican coup. After all, in the Sahel, there is never a coup without a prior stirring of public opinionâwhich explains a phenomenon that always astonishes foreign observers: the "popularity" of these putsches. This is because they are literally popular putsches, that is, responding to the wishes of the population; and when they are not, the population makes it known, as happened to Gilbert DiendiĂ©rĂ© in 2015. If the Republican military are currently keeping their heads down, it is because the population has not yet shown the necessary degree of discontent and anger. It is still in resignation mode: but it would be a mistake to believe that it will be there forever. >>2296762I'm not going to argue with you about this. The objective events in reality are just going to play themselves out.
BTW, there's one more thing. To expect all of this great stuff to happen, you have to assume that these jumped-up paratroopers are capable of solving the underlying problems. I don't hold military men in such high regard. But people are being told that their problems have the origins in various external conspiracies.
>>2296871that's nice sweaty. get up against the wall with your hands behind your head now
*blamblamblam*
>>2297009which part is the argument he just pasted some guys blog that pretends like the fact that france funds terrorism for capital interests in target countries is some kind of unhinged conspiracy theory. yes the ongoing problems in previously french colonies are still frances fault. centuries of imperial legacy dont evaporate overnight
hes basically saying africans are too stupid to govern themselves in the typical sly insidious plausibly deniable way he downplays about every progressive movement. tbh the argument was already addressed and his response was "im not gonna argue about it"
>>2296740>>2296749>>2296751thanks for sharing
i'm also a thirdie and i can relate to western leftists ignoring the internal dynamics of thirdie countries and automatically supporting whoever appears to be anti-west
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