The genocide being committed by Israelis is unprecedented in human history. Never before have we seen such shameless savagery on open display. I believe in a one state solution, but I'm pessimistic that Israelis will ever accept and live with Palestinians as equals. If they had wanted to, they would have accepted a OSS in 1948 and not committed the nakba. I feel like the only solution is to relocate Israelis to the US or repatriate them to their pre-48 countries of origin. 90% of Israelis support Zionism. And Zionism at this point is inherently imperialist and genocidal. This is a population that has gone beyond the point of no return.
>>2274719stop th jew hate
they will live side by side with their Arab brothers
>>2274736 All people were settlers at some point. Why make a particular group of settlers exceptional? Or this genocide in particular?
Only the overthrow of capitalism will end this genocide and all wars, not any relocation of any people
>>2274724>you’re immediately banned for being a heckin antisemitethis doesn't happen
you just went on a rant about duh joos and got banned and now you're butthurt
>>2274775After killing about a million palestinians, da jooz willchave a change of heart and embrace their Arab brothers
Peace and love
>>2274883Marx was a Jew
You must be ashamed
>>2274719If you are in a position to decide "what is to be done with Israelis" that means you already have done much of the work and the situation is drastically changed. A Zionist Israel that contemplates defeat, dissolution would already have gone through so many changes. And so would have the geopolitics necessary for that to happen.
NATO isn't going to let the petrodollar be fucked with, for example. The concept of seriously threatening Israel beyond a tax on the west is pretty much all out war with whomever tries.
>>2274954the jew will live with his arab brother
Jewpussy will be entertained by arabcock
Cuck Moshe will watch and will enjoy it
https://www.elysee.fr/en/emmanuel-Canada, France and the UK condemned Israel now
macron/2025/05/19/joint-statement-from-the-leaders-of-the-united-kingdom-france-and-canada-on-the-situation-in-gaza-and-the-west-bank
>>2274722>>2274719>>2274720>>2274724Part of the reason I disagree with hardcore "Anti-Zionism" despite for my hatred of Isreal and my disgust at the treatment of Palestinians is the fact that I feel so many Anti-Zionists just have a fundementally wrong view of what Israel is and what the Zionist project ultimately aims to accomplish
Israelis are not just some colonial overseer class like Rhodesians or Pied-Noirs. The reason they're so dedicated to the Zionist settler-project is that their people were genuinely victimized and they want a homeland of their own even if it comes at someone elses expense. And that project has largely been a success because Israel is a legitimate "nation" now with a national identity, language, and culture. They aren't attached to some metropole and most of them are in Israel because their ancestors were forcefully kicked out of some other place.
>>2275505Rip Birobidzhan.
Rip a harem of asian beauties for every jewish man.
Rip the creation of a real asiatic judeobolshevik horde.
>>2275544>>2275505No Mr.Panafricanist, the braindead will not understand you
Inshaallah every Israeli will be thrown into the sea!!! This is what they want you to say! Tow the party line!
>>2275549My somewhat sympathetic stance toward Zionism comes from my Pan-Africanism. I understand what motivates Zionists, it doesn't excuse anything they do obv, but I understand the idea of a people who were violently persecuted wanting power and security by any means necessary. My fellow Pan-Afs just think of them as Boers with a different religion but I think thats kind of unfair.
Zionism is simultanously a settler colonial project that oppresses Palestinians and national liberation for an oppressed group and this contradiction needs to be reckoned with in any reasonable left-wing critique
>The genocide being committed by Israelis is unprecedented in human history. Never before have we seen such shameless savagery on open display.
This is my issue sometimes when people attempt to discuss Israel and Zionism, which is that anons try to elevate the severity by means of claiming uniqueness and peculiarity. But historically, we must contend this is not the case, and that doing so implicitly operates as apologetics for all prior colonial projects. The morbid reality, and dually the reason why all liberal nation-states maintain difficulty in constructing a consistent argument against Zionism or Israel, is that Israel is not radically different nor even separate from the western colonial tradition it came from, not even in its conceptualization of the nation state. Western nation states were wholly conceived and reified as ethnically based post the Treaty of Westphalia, and I would argue the open savagery on display then would put even Israel to shame. Israel can only speak of its attempts at finishing its colonial project, but can it claim completion like so many others? The western world genocided a continent, and the newspapers celebrated it. Art was made of it. People spoke happily at tea time about it. It was wholly and completely normalized that the nation-state was something defined by its domination by a singular ethnic entity, and that colonialization necessitated the "pruning" of other ethnic groups. Massacre, ethnic cleansing, sterilization, the open and flagrant murder of man, woman, and child. These are hallmarks of the western worlds shared history, of the nation state, and if we continue to ignore that, we will only obfuscate the reality that Israel is not some new invention, but simply a late contender to a long tradition built into the very birth and origin of the nation state and consequently settler colonialism.
>>2274719Single state solution is the obvious one.
Israelis and Palestinians should be forced to adopt a state built on a shared CULTURAL Canaan/Hebrew lineage.
Religious Minorities like Jews, Druze, Christians, Samaritans should get extra seats in Parliament based on population size same as New Zealand with Maori seats. I don't like the idea that Religioncucks get special privileges since to me Religion is no different from any other form of ideology, but lets be real, there is no incentive for Jews to not engage in holy war if they were to actually become a "minority in their own country".
A state based on shared cultural lineage, would also MASSIVE improve relations with Lebanon, Syria and Jordan, all which have significant Canaanite/Hebrew roots.
Canaanism had it's root in fascism, but a Canaaism based state would have been 1000x better than current day Israel.
>The movement promoted the idea that the Land of Israel was that of ancient Canaan (or, according to others, the whole of the Fertile Crescent) in which ancient peoples and cultures had lived, and that the historical occasion of the reemergence of an Israeli people constituted a veritable revival of these selfsame ancient Hebrews and their civilization, and consequently a rejection of religious Judaism in favor of a native and rooted Hebrew identity. >Because the Canaanites sought to create in Israel a new people, they mandated the dissociation of Israelis from Judaism and the history of Judaism. In their stead they placed the culture and history of the Ancient Near East, which they considered the true historical reference. They argued that the people of the Land of Israel in the days of the biblical monarchs had not been Jewish but Hebrew, and had shared a cultural context with other peoples of the region. Citing contemporary biblical criticism, the Canaanites argued that the Tanakh reflected this ancient history, but only partly, since it had been compiled in the period of the Second Temple by Jewish scribes who had rewritten the history of the region to suit their world-view. >>2275619>oppressed groupdo not look up average income per religion in the US
you will shit bricks
>>2276040>>2276040If your position is the same, you might as well be the same thing yes.
>South Africa South Africa no longer practices apartheid, you think that's a bad thing? You think it would have been better or the same if apartheid hadn't ended?
>Muh world revolution Jesus Christ, kill yourself you fucking larper
>National liberation is the same thing as settler colonialism >Both side are the same>Muh both sidesYou are fucking retarded dude, you're literally indistinguishable from any anarchist or lib
>>2276082>It literally makes zero difference if Palestinians live under apartheid/genocide/as generations of refugees, if you advocate for their relief of that you are a liberal You are a retard
>>2276095>I think it didn't bring socialism any closerNot what I asked is it? You think it's a bad thing apartheid ended? You are pro apartheid? You think it doesn't matter?
>>2276183btw I'm not using racist tropes if it came out this way 👀
All nations are inbred with reactionary culture and most happen to worship a cult founded in the desert
>>2276259If there's one place where Sakai type shit might apply it's Israel, it's less than a century old and its citizens are prevented from engaging in class warfare by the state guaranteeing a)the existence of the kibbutz and b)a certain standard of life (universal healthcare, some high paying jobs wrapped up into its military-security complex that produces products for governments and corporations the world over).
Of course we can't forget bringing in heavily surveilled Indians, Southeast Asians and Palestinian "guest workers" to fill out some of the low wage industries (the service ones more directly waiting on Israeli citizens hand and foot) like the gulf states.
I'm doubtful about all of or even the majority of Israelis being maimed by a force of liberation, especially since a lot of Israelis will just leave the country, but I wouldn't be so shocked to see a few excesses.
>>2276278>the existence of the kibbutzTo be entirely fair, the kibbutz have been watered down and have become more capitalistic, but I think I agree with you otherwise, Israel is like the Scandinavia of the middle east
unless you're Arabic, of course :^)The only reason I mention the degradation of the Kibbutz is because of a hope I have that the great standard of living will not last forever, but even if that does happen I do fear that Israelis will be inclined towards fascism rather than communism or any sort of solidarity with the Palestinians purely because of Israel's history, the memory of the good life Israel provided for its citizens will be embedded in the brains of Israelis, after all.
>>2276282Yeah I know how the kibbutz have degraded since the fall of labor Zionism, but by guaranteeing the existence of the Kibbutz I mostly meant "get protected by the IDF on a day to day basis and when the settlers go out to claim/destroy another orchard or water source"
The kibbutznim and the IDF rank and file will probably be the vanguard of "real" fascism if Israel actually faces more pressure than what the Yemenis are currently doing, leaving maybe a strong minority of Israelis that try to be "neutral" at best.
>>2276259dude only you are thinking in terms of ontology, there's nothing innate or even that special about israeli society. But you have to face the facts, look at what it actually does as a social system of human beings and how its class society is constructed.
There is no way in a million years you're going to convince Israelis, who's whole society exists as ethnic supremacist project at the behest of their ethnicity, to give up their class position over the palestinians. It is there to serve their practical real interests at the cost of the palestinians'.
There is literally zero point to humanizing zionists or israel, while they actively carry out a genocide mind you, as a westerner your best bet is to shit on them as much as possible and treat their state as the disgusting nazi state that it is, at least this pushes the overton window into a more radical position, one of actively encouraging resistance to this genocidal apartheid state.
>>2276277>Most Israelis are brown tooNo-one gives a fuck about this argument dude. It's besides the point, Israel is still white supremacist, it's just jewish supremacist first
>>2276353>Because I have a small liberal side and a strong distaste for injustice and the murder of innocentslol
>But I'm not humanizing or dehumanizing anyone,You are literally moralizing to people for being too dismissive of israeli lives, aka not humanizing them enough, on anonymous imageboards, what the fuck are you talking about
>Just saying there are classes and its the Israel's rulling class that has those ideas of supremacy and genocideYou have literally no idea what you're talking about, how can you type this and not be emberrased?
Not only is the ethnic supremacist ideology of zionism essential to the literal foundation as well as the metaphorical foundation of Israel and its society. This racist worldview is deeply imbedded across all levels of this society, this is well documented for decades. Juat look at the facts man, only 5% of israeli jews think that their government has gone too far. Listen to what actual israeli communists and anarchists even have to say about israel and how deep racism is implanted across its society instead of self righteously talking out your ass
>If you don't believe that then you better be consequent and among other things call the US turtle island while asking for the descendants of people not from there to be deported.Get the fuck out of here with your weakass desperate conflation. THE INDIGENOUS GENOCIDE OF NATIVE AMERICANS WAS COMPLETED OVER A 100 YEARS AGO. While the palestinian one is still ongoing, in other words, there is still something that can be done about it. What people are trying to prevent is palestinians ending up like native americans or aboriginals. And if you scoff at that, you clearly don't have a fucking clue about what was done to those people and what their current situation looks like.
In short: you're full of shit
>>2276362You're too america brained. Im talking about in Israeli society. Their racism extends beyond the palestians and is white supremacist in origin.
What american jews and zionists in the ADL do is not relevant
Y'all wishcasting revenge fantasies about irredeemable villains whose role to play is so fundamental, they'll be the last to fall before the USA collapses.
By the time anyone can "do anything about Israelis" their society would have collapsed. Because NATO has no more material means to support Israel. By then, you are just watching the collapse of the west in general. And Israeli society would have faced such irrecoverable military defeats, the place would be so ravaged by war, waged not by Israel, but by the combined forces of NATO in one last resort apocalyptic war to salvage the petrodollar that "Israel" as you conceive of it, as well as most of the region would not exist anymore.
This idea of "reforming" Israelis/Zionists and particularly Jews is pointless for the same reason why Palestine advocacy doesn't work. Zionism is intrinsically linked to the material benefits and detriments of keeping Israel a colony. The people of the region suffer the pressures of the colonial arrangement, but those at the principal sponsors in the west, simply don't. So the latter have no reason to commit to antizionism and you will never overpower the liberal PR machine.
The only way less people will be Zionist is when it comes with a hefty price to pay. And for that Israel needs to be defeated, because otherwise the benefits it reports to NATO will make their support for Zionism, unwavering.
>>2276428Idk what you're talking about. im sure their racism extends to whatever goyim too, but they have their own white supremacy issues. How they treated arab jews and Ethiopian jews when they first arrived on the scene makes that evident, but it extends to the current day. Even as current arab jews are now the most fervently racist zionists lol, they'd probably foam at the mouth at the thought of someone calling them an arab jew, in a sense they are like uncle toms on steroids.
The point is that it's a moot point anyway, noone cares about this
>>2276420 (me)
As long as Israel stands to materially benefit the west, Zionists will have the safest of havens in NATO.
That's also one of the reasons why, for example, Turkey holds so much power in the Syrian intervention by having kept the brunt of Syrian refugees. Turkey is doing the job of holding part of the friction of the conflict away from NATO. Imagine if, instead of remaining mostly on Turkey and Lebanon you had 6M war displaced refugees in the UK. Having roughly 10% of the population being the direct victims of your policy would make promulgating that policy a hell of a lot costlier.
That is also why NATO will never accept the brunt of the Palestinian diaspora, especially those recently displaced by the Nakba2. And that is why there will never be a cost to their Zionist policy.
>>2276553>IsraelitesIsraelis*
Israelites are the biblical people that Israelis claim to descend from.
>>2276544>We do revolution That sounds like a lot of work, what if we just stop buying hummus and post a lot about how a genocide is happening?
>>2276553>a fake nation I've got bad news for you
>>2274719If I had my way I'd drown over 95% of """"Israelis"""" in the mediterranean and that's exponentially more humane than what they do to Palestinians
Realistically tho they'll end up like the Pied Nors, Boers, Rhodesians and other repulsive descendants of settler colonizers
>>2276727Look at the controversy section on his Wikipedia it is quite long.
Even the views section is really bad too
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moshe_Feiglin >>2276728Holy shit he's a literal Nazi.
Nevermind, it makes sense now, "blood and soil" and all that.
>>2276278On that, the Jewish religious fanatics in the West Bank are like a vanguard that will take over a hilltop, terrorize the nearby Palestinians, and dig in, but I've read that a lot of people who have moved into West Bank settlements in recent years have done so because the land and housing is relatively cheap and then they get materially invested in occupation. (Israel is expensive.)
>>2275505I also think Israel behaves barbarically but it's not simply settler-colonialism either. There is settler-colonialism in the West Bank but Israel is a hybrid of that and also a national project so the application of an anti-colonial war strategy like the FLN or Viet Minh hasn't worked. If that strategy worked, it would've worked, but it hasn't worked. I'm not sure what the solution is but at this point the Jews are not going to let themselves be driven out of there by force.
>>2276553The attitude there among some of the generals and so on is that they stopped trying to decisively win wars and conquer territory like they did back in the 1960s because they have the U.S. behind them. Israel hasn't decisively won a war since the U.S. really started embracing Israel, so Trump indicating he's getting tired of Israel is therefore pushing Israel to (try to) finish the war once and for all (or whatever Bibi is saying).
>>2277833>In Palestin the populations are evenly split and the settlers have far more resources. I think the only way the Palestinians can win is if the Israelis lose their material advantage.I think the First Intfada had them down really bad. That's my impression. It was really a bottom-up uprising, and the PLO didn't even know WTF was going on at first, because they were in exile in Tunisia. Then the Israelis went out to confront crowds of kids throwing rocks at them, and that was demoralizing to Israeli soldiers and to Israeli society. It was militant and confrontational but it wasn't the same thing as a war. This is when a lot of famous pictures of Palestinian kids running up to Israeli tanks were taken. That was in the late 1980s.
There's a very simple and psychological reason why this was demoralizing. Soldiers want to serve their country and want to prove themselves. The problem is, you can't do that against someone who is much weaker than you. You're in a lose-lose situation. If you let the much weaker person kill you, you're an idiot, but if you kill him then you're a bastard.
To fight somebody who is weak makes YOU weak.
But there's this attitude among resistance supporters (I'm not saying this is what Palestinians are saying) who are like "Israel is going to be DESTROYED and WE'RE STRONG" and here's a video of a Merkava being blown up by an RPG. I see this a lot. I don't know if that is actually helpful, to be honest. Or it doesn't have the same effect on the Israeli psyche, and it might feed the evil rather than demoralizing it (even if the intentions and actions are heroic in the circumstances). And again, I'm not subjected to an Israeli military occupation, and I do feel uncomfortable telling anybody what to do.
>Since Israel is not a self sustaining economic unit, this basically means the only way for it to be defeated is for the US to decline to the point where it is unwilling or unable to keep writing Israel blank cheques.The flip side is that there's an argument in Israel about trying to wean Israel off U.S. assistance as being in Israeli interests. They can also be hypocritical (and there are also Israelis with different opinions though) when they bitch that U.S. doesn't give them e-v-e-r-y-t-h-i-n-g they ask for (even though it's way more than many countries), but it's like this "hugging Israel" shit that you see American politicians do. The left doesn't believe the U.S. is restraining them at all, but there are Israelis who do think the U.S. is and does, and this hugging shit is how my country's glorious leaders do it. They show up, and hug them, and say we luuuuv uuuuu and then whisper "plz don't nuke somebody" because we also think they're kind of crazy.
But Israel is also like an R&D testing lab for American weapons which are developed in Israel but are co-owned by the U.S. and Israel which bypasses the bureaucratic red tape in the United States. The nationalist argument against Israel "aid" in the U.S. is "we're just giving money to Israel, what does AMERICA get out of it?" But "America" is an abstraction here. The military-industrial complex gets a lot out of it because the military financing aid is conditioned on buying American weapons, so it's an indirect subsidy to the U.S. MIC. This populist thing about "they think we're suckers" is not actually the case when it comes to the people who run the United States. There are other suckers but Raytheon (which co-owns and makes Iron Dome) are not suckers. That shit Trump is talking about the "Golden Dome" is also based on it.
>>2277899A large proportion of Israelis were born there, and their families have lived there for generations. I'm not about to run off to eastern Europe just because my grandparents are from there since this is the only home I've ever known. I'd imagine a lot of them feel the same way.
>>2277905>The flip side is that there's an argument in Israel about trying to wean Israel off U.S. assistance as being in Israeli interestThey'd be correct to say that. Israel in its current form could never survive in the long term. It simply cant produce enough equipment, fuel, parts, and weapons to sustain the kind of high tech, resource intensive military they've built for themselves. Without the US they'd end up like South Vietnam, who had this massive army built in America's image, using American doctrine, etc. but once the US bailed they didn't have the resources to keep it operational. The Greater Israel project isn't just the purview of religious or nationalist fanatics, something like large scale territorial expansion, rapid population growth, and major industrialization would be necessary for Israel to stand on its own two feet, but I don't think that's likely since nearly 60 years after 1967 they still haven't fully pacified Gaza and the West Bank. I think in the long term Israel is doomed to fail simply because it won't be able to become self sufficient before the US empire begins terminal decline. Once that happens it's only a matter of time before it collapses from exhaustion and attrition the way Rhodesia and South Africa did.
>>2277905>a video of a Merkava being blown up by an RPG. I see this a lot. I don't know if that is actually helpful, to be honest. Or it doesn't have the same effect on the Israeli psyche, and it might feed the evil rather than demoralizing it (even if the intentions and actions are heroic in the circumstances). And again, I'm not subjected to an Israeli military occupation, and I do feel uncomfortable telling anybody what to do.I will tell u man, first of all forget about the israeli psyche, have you seen what these people justify and how they talk about the genocide they're perpetrating? How much more evil can they be possible be fed into? Personally I think it pisses them the fuck off, they're seething as fuck that they could never pull off heroic shit like in those vids. But that makes no difference in terms of how much suffering they inflict on the palestinians I think they'd be just as cruel regardless.
Secondly, Im not trying to speak for all palestinians or something, but from talking to some about it, they love that shit dude. There's few things that uplift them more than seeing some badass blow of a tank of full of those genocidal nazis, it's helpful on that ground alone
>But there's this attitude among resistance supporters (I'm not saying this is what Palestinians are saying) who are like "Israel is going to be DESTROYED and WE'RE STRONG"It's fine to posture against zionists, I don't think there's any harm in it
>>2278080*consciences
Fuck my ESL life
>>2279152I hope it doesn't backfire.
>>2279183Not sure about the quality of Israel's MIC in general. They have decent drones, however i highly doubt that they are more advanced than China's current gen drones. Israel proved a number of times (in particular evil manner) though that they are very good, if not most capable, when it comes to IT networking, surveillance, intrusion and sabotage hardware and software.
>>2274719What will happen to the Israeli's is in the hand of the Palestenian resistance and maybe their allies should they allow them to aid in a hypothetical reconstruction/ reclamation of Palestine.
It will also will depend on wether the Israeli's contribute to decolonisation and help rebuild the Palestenian nation while abolishing their own. If they choose to remain Zionists, the Palestenians will handle them accordingly.
Outside looking in though, I reckon we're probably going to see a Rhodesia-style settler exodus should the Palestenians win. A lot of Israeli's have dual citizenship. If a bunch of South African Boers can claim they're being "genocided" and be taken in by the USA, I'm sure orange ᴉuᴉlossnW could do the same with the Zionists.
>>2279864> The thing Israel is #1 at tech wise is missile defense.And yet during the Iran missile posturing, what got reported as basic ballistic missiles got through. I kind of expected the point of all this bragging about the dome and whatnot to be no just capable of shooting down homemade rockets reliably (at an exorbitant cost). But to take away the non-nuclear MAD with Iran.However, It looked like if they actually had a MAD situation no amount of domes and shields and slings could stop conventional missiles from raining down on Tel Aviv.
Even the occasional Yemeni drone or missile seems to get through. And plenty of Hizbollah rockets and drones as well.
>>2275505>are in Israel because their ancestors were forcefully kicked out of some other place.Well, if it worked once… Maybe next "jewish homeland" should be built on the eathnic cleansing of most of Germany. Honestly, we should give it a good honest try. Just draw some shitty borders, slap dash on the middle of Europe and send the big boy genociders there to clear the land.
But the truth is there is no such thing as a homeland for Jews. THere is only a NATO outpost safeguarding travel routes and the regional interests of the USA in upholding the pretrodollar. So even if by some supernatural means Pissrael was moved elsewhere, literally anywhere else, it would
immediately collapse because there is no where near the material incentive for NATO to uphold their shitty colony anymore.
And because without Israel, NATO would enter a deep economic crisis as the middle east begins to emancipate. I reckon NATO would rather raze most of it than risk losing the petrodollar.
>>2281135>the israeli working class less real or relevant.The argument goes like this: I suggest that, like pretty much any other human problem, can be solved with sufficient application of violence and the imposition of an alternative framework of economic relations IE. socialism.
Then you go on to make the argument for me that NATO would never allow it and, in your zeal to evoke rage and enshrine the Zionist power, that the only reason Pissrael exists, is to be the local enforcer of NATO interests.
>>2274738How are they supposed to live with people who overwhelmingly support brazen genocide?
https://archive.md/yI4Dy (translate it)
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