/leftypol/ - Leftist Politically Incorrect

>>2302156
>>2302156
>third world workers are cavemen unorganized and love the boot over their necks so we should support their bourgeoisie
<*completely prove otherwise*
>ummm… okay but could you recite the charter of every one of the dozen communist parties in Iran that are opposed to the regime
Hey spinless retard, it wasn't just "some spontaneous unrest by workers", it showcased how advanced and organized the labor movement in Iran is and this specific demonstration in 2019 alone led to the death of at least 500 Iranian workers. The Iranian government is constantly engaged in union busting and strike breaking.
>>2302172
Iran is openly a neoliberal government (their PM ran on that promise) and Iranian oil is privatized and is partly owned by western companies, the 500 Iranian workers who the IRGC killed were against the privatization. Read what you're replying to dumbass.

https://www.iranoilgas.com/companies/listforeign

>advanced and organized the labor movement in Iran is
Which parties? Tudeh? CPI? CPI(MLM)? Who?!
>Iranian oil is privatized
lol so you are iranian and dont know you own country and the whole reason imperialists have been trying to overthrow it for the last 70 years?

>>2302178
>this specific demonstration in 2019 alone led to the death of at least 500 Iranian workers.
uh kinda sounds like a bad idea if that is the result but idk. who opposed it? did CPUSA make a statement about it? PSL? CPGB? KKE? Did the CCP come out and say "we condemn the workers of Iran and their attempts to overthrow brown capitalism"? Who told you it was bad? was it the worms in your brain?

>>2302188
I'm not Iranian. You're an oblivious worm on the other side of the planet talking about a country you know nothing about.
>which parties
كلهن كس امك
>>2302201
>who opposed it
this guy >>2302172 who calls it a color revolution alongside every IRGC critical-supporting western third worldist orientalist retard like you

wait am i reading this wrong or were the protests about reinstating the monarchy lmao very communism

>In November 2019, people chanted, "Shah of Iran, return to Iran!", "Iran is muddled in a mess without the Shah", "Clerics must get lost", "No to Gaza, no to Lebanon. We sacrifice our lives for Iran," "Death to the dictator", "Death to the Islamic Republic", "Our military brothers, why do you kill your brother?", "Bless your soul Reza Shah", "Not Gaza, not Lebanon, my life only for Iran", "Oil money has been lost, it has all been spent on Palestine", "They have brought up Islam, but trampled the people", "The supreme leader lives like a God. We, the people live like beggars."[127] "We have no money or fuel, to hell with Palestine."[128]

>Chants became even more radical in the January protests, with demonstrators calling for a revolution and chanting, "This is your last month, [Khamenei] it is time to go", "Oh Crown Prince, come to our help", "Clerics must get lost", "No reforms, no referendum, just strikes and revolution", "Sepah commits murders, and the Supreme Leader supports it", "You killed our elites, and replaced them with clerics", and "Death to Khamenei".[129]

>>2302210
>source: Shahite-owned Iran international and diaspora wiki editors
average ML sources LMAOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO

>>2302213
Do you have a better source? I have to go in a bit but I was about to look for statements from Tudeh and CPI. I do remember statements saying that the protests need to form around workers councils and do a general strike but that was more recent after mahsa amini not in 2019. What were the communists doing in 2019?

>>2302222
"Impasse in Iran: Workers Versus Authoritarian Neoliberalism" by Peyman Jafari


There are dozens of articles that documented the labor movement during those demonstrations but I don't have them saved. This work is a decent summery.

>>2302019
>The best one can say is that op is definitely not a typical.third worlder since: He has at least a phone; He reliable has internet access; He speak english at a level comparable with an average anglo; His primary concern was what first wolders online spout on social media.

yes, perfectly good point to make, especially because he started the thread on the quasi-identitarian basis of talking about being a 3rd world prole feeling dehumanized by third worldist rhetoric, so i think its fair to bring up individual circumstances. youre right hes not a typical 3rd world prole, but theres a world of difference between talking about differences between 3rd world proles & saying "no way youre a 3rd world prole." the latter is suggesting theres some fundamental quality about them that is beyond talking shit on an imageboard. i also think you might be underestimating how many 3rd world proles are regularly online immersed in the same shit as us in the core & semi-periphery. its definitely a minority but not an irrelevantly small one. if you took diasporas out of it thered still be a ton of people from nigeria, kenya, pakistan, india, and those are just official english speaking countries, people everywhere regularly learn passable english

>>2302201

His response is very bizarre; Instead of just replying with an easy "x party/org. opposed this trike by iranian workers here is the source" he proceeds to verbal abuse and a complete red herring (I never said anything about tw workers being cavemen, loving boots or that someone should support the bourgeoisie). It would be so easy to actually give a proper reply.

I googled his reply here >>2302209 to the question of which parties and brings up pornography.

So no only does he not reply to question, engages in fallacious reasoning & verbal abuse, but he is also seemingly a degenerate.

>>2302240
Perhaps you should translate stuff in foreign language before googling them or not

كيف تصبح ارهابي انا احب الارهاب كيف تنظم الى داعش

>>2302229
>some guy who went to princeton and definitely isn't a glowie i promise

gonna need a statement from communis
t in iran not gusanos or voices in your head. sorry emojis and anon posting is not evidence

>the labor movement
i thought we were talking about communism. you want to switch liberalism for liberalism and accuse others of supporting liberalism

>>2302229
got a link to the article? all the free downloads i see are just the table of contents for the book it is a part of

>>2302245

You are a degenerate, and any good communist organization would have to get rid of you.

That said you do show indeed that there is no inherent genetic or cultural difference between third worlders or first worlders: You demonstrate that tw people can be just as degenerate, disgusting, sick pure wastes of space and life as any fw person can be.

>>2302249
>t in iran not gusanos
Your source is Iran international >>2302210


You should neck yourself asap

>>2302249
Yes the glowies have every interest in saying Iranian workers are organized and are against their regime, privatization while also not wanting the US to invade them. This is literally what the CIA wants.

Now let's hear from Timmy why Iranian workers who are too retarded to organize should be killed by their neoliberal regime.

>>2302238

I have spent a bit of time with African coms on facebook; There aren't that many (and Ialso speak French), and they don't spend that much time online because data is expensive.

When you meet a person from the third world online, they are much probability (even excluding the diaspora) of being petty-bourg or bourg. Speaking english at high level of fluency as a second language is very expensive as a process.

Even many high ranking KKE members don't speak much English for example, despite the party having quite an extensive translator team.

>>2302273

No doubt. That said, it seems plausible to me that stealth privatization of oil is occuring there, because such schemes (where remains intact but it increasingly subcontracts) are common not just in the middle east, but worldwide.

Everyone basically engages in it to some extent, even to the point of it being self defeating for their own long term regime stability (eg. I gave earlier with Assad jr. gov 2000s liberalization)

Clinically brain dead MLs when asked why the CIA would put
>"down with neoliberalism"
>"While criticizing the authorities, Iranian workers have rejected US aggression against Iran, and condemned right-wing nationalist attempts to hijack labour struggles"
in their propaganda

>>2302280

*where the soe remains intact

>>2302280
>ML learns that bourgeois dictatorship interests are subordinated to capital which is in need of expansion and inherently international at this stage of development
>this is okay because every other bourgeois dictatorship does it
These people can't be on the same physical plane as us

PLEASE MARXALLAH SPARE ME FROM THOSE WHO SPEAK YOUR NAME IN VAIN

>>2302282

Back in the day at least, the CIA was actually pretty clever and would tend to finance all sides that wanted to bring down a government. Now obviously they would have their preferred groups over others, but the idea is that instability needs to be generalized.

And actually making use of legitimate grievances by workers (and ordinary people generally) tends work a lot better at achieving regime change ends (precisely because the base is legitimate). See Ukraine 2014.

The key here is that liberalization tends to bring about more liberalization in this kind of cascading positive feedback loop way. It amplifies, if not actively creates, the basis for widespread discontent that then can be seized for an uprising that brings into power even more liberalization (although aligned differently geopolitically).

Recognizing this doesn't mean one therefore supports non-western aligned liberalizing governments (if anything, just the opposite, since they are cucking themselves out for a future lib/western/jihadi/etc. coup or civil war)

>>2302287

>this is okay because every other bourgeois dictatorship does it

What in the fuck? Where did I say this good/fine?

Ανόητος μαλακας 100/100.

>>2302303
This.

The CIA is against neoliberalism, oil privatization and US imperialism.

I will literally say anything as long as I get to support neoliberal Islamists who kill organized brown workers.

>>2302309

>I will literally say anything as long as I get to support neoliberal Islamists who kill organized brown workers.

On top of being a degenerate you are near functionally illiterate. I reiterate:

>Recognizing this doesn't mean one therefore supports non-western aligned liberalizing governments (if anything, just the opposite, since they are cucking themselves out for a future lib/western/jihadi/etc. coup or civil war)

Ultras just don't get brown workers CANNOT organize and have class consciousness. They're physically, ontologically, spiritually, genetically incapable of such feat.

When they don't want their oil privatized it is more likely that a CIA color revolution is involved then them doing it organically.

Also I READ Edward Said and I'm against the racist concept of ORIENTALISM btw this is just materialism

>>2302324

>They're physically, ontologically, spiritually, genetically incapable of such feat.

No that's just you. No need to project your own personal inadequacies and degeneracies onto entire peoples.

>>2302274
most 3rd worlders, at least english speaking (no idea if whatsapp has big multilingual use or if theres equivelants) that are on the internet are in whatsapp groups that distill a ton of the same shit you get on big social media with all their own nutty schizo shit. where ive been whatsapp is used for phonecalls/basic text that people need anyway & you can buy cards based on data or time. if you buy them based on time or just get addicted to posting same way anyone else does, nothing really stopping people in reasonably internet connected countries in urban & semi-urban areas. source im a firstie i have lived in the 3rd world visiting & then staying to help in-laws, not glow or poverty tourism, obviously varies enormously even within countries but i think people underestimate how much of the global proletariat is online, ESPECIALLY if were talking about specifically proletariat & not the remaining nearly-dispossessed peasantry that make up a plurality of the rural population or the dispossessed lumpen that are very often a plurality of the urban population. which isnt to suggest any uniform higher status for 3rd world proles, in most cases a lagos street hawker lives better than a rural indian day-wage contractless prole in extractive industries. but also in most places the proletariat are not the most wretched or desperate people around

>>2302331
sarcasm check: FAILED

>>2302273
damn dude you had all day to find one statement from an actual iranian communist party and couldn't manage it

oh well

>>2302324
saying they are not organized is a lot different then saying the can not organize

where is the org? what is its name? and which western orgs are denouncing them? what are their names? where are these massive western third worldist parties that have so much international influence they are stopping iranians from doing revolution? how are they aiding the government? do they provide material support? are they sending them arms or monetary donations?

>>2302268
>Your source is Iran international
and also DW Sky News and NYT Israel 365 and Radio Farda

interesting that they all also supported the protests along with Mike Pomeo. Very communist.

So do you have a source that disputes what they are saying, maybe one that shows the protesters were not trying to bring back monarchy?

lets see what we can find
CPI - no statements
https://old.cpiran.org/english/statements/index.html
CPI again - doesn't go past 2020
https://cpiran.org/category/announcements/page/155/

Tudeh has no statements about the protests, but works with CPUSA and CPB. so i guess they dont think first worlders are stopping them from doing anything
https://www.tudehpartyiran.org/en/2020/01/12/the-joint-statement-of-the-communist-party-of-britain-the-tudeh-party-of-iran-and-the-communist-party-of-the-usa/

heres CPIMLM (actual third world third worldists lol) on the 2022 protests
>Different political trends were in the mix—from a significant presence of reactionary pro-monarchist, pro-U.S. sentiment… to the flyer with its call for people everywhere to take up the cry for revolution from Iran and for the urgent need for a real revolution to put end to this regime and the suffering of the people in Iran
https://cpimlm.org/1401/08/01/taking-the-communist-party-of-iran-mlm-statement-on-the-uprising-in-iran-to-the-d-c-mass-protestcontroversy-contentious-struggle-and-wellspring-of-openness/

here they are saying the revolution has to be communist
> The only way for society and the majority of the people to be freed from this miserable situation and for a radical change in the situation to take place is to “overthrow” the Islamic Republic and the entire capitalist class state that is the source of the current disasters. This is only possible through a real revolution (not like what happened in 1979, when the same exploitative class system and state continued in a different form). A revolution led by a communist party relying on the most developed understanding and method of the science of revolution and liberation

>the bourgeois and pro-imperialist forces are once again sending a message to our people that they should not “worry about the future” and that it is enough to “pass” the Islamic Republic. While they themselves are already acting as a “government in exile” and sending envoys to various governments for consultations and negotiations (i.e., participating and taking part in the power structure after the Islamic Republic with the support of imperialist governments). The bourgeois forces, due to their nature and class position, do not want to eliminate the fundamental structures on which this order of exploitation and oppression

> In reactionary systems, there is no substantive difference between “free” and “unfree” elections. The democracy or “democracy” claimed by the imperialists and the Islamic Republic is only a deception

>claim : The “Transitional Management Council” is “non-violent” and wants to make it possible for the people’s struggles against the Islamic Republic to proceed “structured and non-violently until the ruling regime surrenders to the will of the people.” 6

>Reality: This claim is a superstition and a deception of the people.

>Therefore, it is more vital than ever to bring communist consciousness to the different segments of the people, to enlighten their minds on what the problem is and what the solution is, and to link this consciousness to the various arenas of struggle and what we call the “seven stops” and to organize to carry out a real revolution.
https://cpimlm.org/1398/08/09/%D8%A2%D9%84%D8%AA%D8%B1%D9%86%D8%A7%D8%AA%DB%8C%D9%88%D8%B3%D8%A7%D8%B2%DB%8C%E2%80%8C%D9%87%D8%A7%DB%8C-%D8%A7%D8%B1%D8%AA%D8%AC%D8%A7%D8%B9%DB%8C-%D8%A8%D8%B1%D8%A7%DB%8C-%D8%A2%DB%8C%D9%86%D8%AF/

oh wow so they also think people need education and organization and that the protests just want to swap one liberal for another

i wonder who the Transitional Management Council is?
https://iran-tc.com/en/about-us/
oh the grandson of grand ayatollah is a board member. super communist!

feel free to dig through the links. maybe you can find something else

>>2302324
The CIA doesn't want the IRGC to privatize its oil and sell it off to western companies like it already did althoughever

>>2302854
Just because the west supported Islamists in hijacking the 1979 revolution and literally flew the Ayatollah in doesn't mean every revolution in Iran is western supported. Ever considered the ingenious possibility of trying to hijack another mass movement?

>>2302854
>So do you have a source that disputes what they are saying
Perhaps shouting stuff like this >>2302282
>inb4 but the Iranian monarchist diaspora said they're so relevant that 500 Iranian workers laid their lives for them
Literally no one remembers the monarchy in Iran. I know Iranian comrades from two parties there, one being a branch of a party I organize with. But by all means keep linking Israel 69 articles or whatever.

>>2302876
>doesn't mean every revolution in Iran is western supported
right but it also doesn't mean every revolution in iran is communist. and not being western supported also doesn't mean that it wouldn't be in the wests interests or that they wouldn't co-opt of facilitate it if it actually started to get somewhere. thats not to say that I think we should oppose a bourgeois revolution if its actually progressive, but simply being not-western backed isn't necessarily progressive. you could very well have a spontaneous popular uprising that swaps religiods for non-sectarian liberals that turn around and sell the country out to the west anyway because thats what liberals do.

im trying to think of an example of a progressive populist movement that is for sovereignty and development but all the ones i can think of are right wing and religious. the mythical left wing populist movement that isn't communist doesn't really exist. who is irans bernie? is tudeh socdem? they do have the rose.

>>2302900
>I think
Refrain from commenting on a country your only point of reference to are 10 minute youtube videos and reddit comments
>progressive populist movement that is for sovereignty
Not a word you mentioned is related to Marxism, perhaps you'd find better luck at /pol/.

>>2302904
>Not a word you mentioned is related to Marxism
thats why i defined progressive as sovereign development, same as marx. progressive means increasing productive forces, which is what makes imperialism regressive and national liberation progressive, same reason bourgeois revolutions are progressive when compared to feudalism.

the "i think" is there because we are being accused of not supporting revolutions, so im describing under what material conditions marx would support a revolution. he would not support swapping a national government for a comprador one

>>2302904
>only point of reference
my point of reference is actual iranian communist parties by the way. unfortunate search is still down or i could find the post with the statement referenced here >>2302222
it was really good but i had to translate it so searching in english on google doesn't help much

thats what distinguishes communism from anarchism btw. anarchy could be accomplished at any time, but communism required capitalism to happen first, according to marx, because freedom comes from necessity, and without the industrial revolution we would not have the technology to build productive forces capable of liberating mankind from drudgery. the final step is liberating the productive forces from the private ownership by capitalists into the general public ownership so that the product of that technology can be distributed equally.

thats why we dont call human rights "progressive" because right comes from the economic structure of society, not from a legal decree

>>2302905
Progressive, in the way you seemingly threw it around, means liberal ie conserving the status quo.

Marxian historical progress won't come about through a fascist clique shrouding itself in social democracy like the many 'AES' regimes. It will come through the abolishment of that same state worship so much, and this could only be achieved through internationalism, that's why for example one of the underground parties in Iran has a branch in my country and is focused on expanding to other countries so when revolutionary conditions arrive the proletariat will act as one body in delivering a deadly blow to the capital. As for productive forces, if 19th century Britain was developed enough to have a socialist revolution, so is modern Iran.
>>2302911
Iran has gone full circle in terms of capitalist development, it's deindustrializing now thanks to the decentralized of neoliberalism. Iranian workers are the only ones standing in the way of this. It's not an uncivilized feudal shithole like you're framing it.

>>2302916
>in the way you seemingly threw it around, means liberal ie conserving the status quo
except im explicitly contrasting "actually progressive" with liberal progressivism by defining it as sovereignty and development

>It's not an uncivilized feudal shithole like you're framing it.
I didn't say it was, i said that a revolution that maintains sovereignty under a national bourgeois incentivized towards development would be progressive compared to the status quo, but that a revolution for "human rights and democracy" would not be progressive compared to the status quo, because it would exacerbate and entrench
>deindustrializing … neoliberalism

if there was somehow an atheist resurgence and you had a right wing trump or putin guy but anti-religious who wanted to "make iran great again" and build up iranian industry and connect different parts of the country together economically that would be progressive, but if you have a bunch of human rights protestors who just want to overthrow the government so they can have free and fair elections under capitalism the cia is going to come install some wall street exec and that would be about the same or worse than the status quo

>Marxian historical progress won't come about through a fascist clique shrouding itself in social democracy like the many 'AES' regimes. It will come through the abolishment of that same state worship so much, and this could only be achieved through internationalism
those are also historically progressive but the precondition for them is the development of productive forces capable of maintaining the ideal society that you worship so much. aes dont worship the state, the state is an unfortunate but necessary weapon that the one class uses to suppress others, and in the case of aes that is the working class represented by a communist party suppressing the bourgeoisie. as you say end goal communism must be international so aes states are in a holding pattern until other countries get their shit together. while the state exists, there can be no freedom. when there is freedom there will be no state. first you build freedom then the state can go

>>2302898
>shouting
?
>stuff like this
is there a link for those quotes? what is meant by right-wing nationalist? its odd to include right-ring and nationalist together. shouldn't the communist revolution be for the nation? if the protests are calling for vague democracy and human rights that is no more left-wing. they could be against neoliberalism and still fine with capitalism, which would make them also right wing.

>>2302928
>contrasting "actually progressive" with liberal progressivism by defining it as sovereignty and development
>>2302935
>shouldn't the communist revolution be for the nation?

I can't tell if this is a troll or not

>>2302948
what do you mean?

do you need the quotes on productive forces too? we can bring lenin as well he is much more explicit

>>2277070
Shut the fuck up

>>2276623
Who are we supposed to suppooooort? you still have not told us who we are suppoooorting. i need to know who to post about

>>2302964
>phul sapport basic package (if you'd remove any of these i'd kill you and hide the body, basically)
dprk, cuba, china, vietnam, lao
>understands how the world works award
belarus, russia, iran, palestine, formerly syria (rip 💔), venezuela, nicaragua, serbia, sahel states, among others
>toxic sludge (if you add any of these you're automatically terminated)
amerikkka, jizzrael, cuckraine, kkkosovo, separatists in the taiwan province/tibet/xinjiang, /pol/and, EU bureaukkkrats, perfidious albion, among others