I would understand it as modern capitalism constantly needing population growth to be maintained. Or is the only solution to the replacement of your ethnicity/religion/culture/etc. to just breed like crazy? Thanks bros
>>2363798>Infinite immigration Sure thing buddy, yeah… hahaha
Like early Mars colonization & made Gulag of Archipelago out of Galaxies like this shit, there you'll mine for the glorious Soviet Union, New Soviet man.
>>2363806Hey bro, I appreciate the positive sentiment)) and this is certainly and ideal future… but right now I'm seeing my country become unrecognisable, my language becoming less commonly spoken (irony of writing english here aside), and conflict growing between the immigrants and natives.
We're not reaching some happy middle ground right now, but just the passive natives waiting for their culture to be replaced and impotent to stop the one-sided immigration((
>>2363823>Hey bro, I appreciate the positive sentiment)) and this is certainly and ideal future… but right now I'm seeing my country become unrecognisable, my language becoming less commonly spoken (irony of writing english here aside), and conflict growing between the immigrants and natives.This is due to the machinations of capital, the redustribution of wealth towards the ruling class in the imperial core, the propaganda used by those same parasites to keep people fighting amongst themselves and so much more. All things which communists struggle to overcome. I show you the ideal so you know what to fight for, that the end goal is something which can be reached through effort, monumental effort.
It is a choice that all working people must face:
- Give into reaction, kill fellow workers to prop up their own capitalist class, perpetuating the suffering
- Give into passivity, siding with reaction without even having the conviction to commit
- Give what one can for a better world, to work at breaking the chains which bind us
You must realize that there is no easy solution, no way around the historically nessecary task of overthrowing capitalism.
Without capitalism, there's no rich capitalists to exploit third world immigrants, so there's less things causing immigration. That and with more global cooperation, third world nations would actually be able to develop instead of just becoming reliant on western aid, so there would be less of a reason for them to leave their home countries.
>>2363806>your ethnicity will become meaningless>you will be able to practice your culture however you so desire (within reason)But if your ethnicity has become meaningless, that means your culture has as well, since they're very closely related outside of the new world, so making ethnicity meaningless basically erases certain cultures, Jews or Black people for example. How can you have Jewish culture without jews, or Black culture without Black people? And isn't that somewhat colonialist, because even if we have made ethnicity (and thus culture) irrelevant, it still has to be replaced with something, so what does it get replaced with? Even something new has to be based on some countries culture.
>>2363825(pics related) Mass hysteria about well-integrated immigrants talking to family in a foreign language. The ghosts have eaten their brains.
>but they were forced out!Yeah, so who's to say that natives in Europe or the middle east won't eventually face the same fate? Why do native Americans have a right to self determination on their own land, but native Europeans don't? Because they were colonisers? But that just makes your entire ideology more about revenge than it does genuine anti-colonialism, especially since in many western countries civic-nationalism is based on their colonial legacies, and how would you also justify the same thing happening to countries that never had colonial empires?
>>2363871Yeah it's not happening, keep coping though.
The rapefugees will keep coming though (in every sense)
>>2363878>I live around so many foreigners/migrants and it's just literally never ever an issueCan't say I relate. I've always lived in a very diverse town, but in recent years more immigrants have come in from places like India and Bangladesh and they've pretty much changed the face of the town. For the record, I'm a child of immigrants myself.
Even other kids of immigrants that I've spoken to seem concerned about it, even when most of the immigrants coming in are from the same countries their parents came from. Most people care because they like their local cultures and don't want them changed.
>>2363882Yeah I mean maybe if you think seeing indians is significantly different from seeing arabs or carribian or white people at the local grocery store…
I personally don't give a fuck
>For the record, I'm a child of immigrants myself. Even other kids of immigrants that I've spoken to seem concerned about it, even when most of the immigrants coming in are from the same countries their parents came from.So you agree it is brain damage and it is getting upset about literally nothing?
>Most people care because they like their local cultures and don't want them changedBut who cares? First off, giving a single fuck about your "local culture" in the age of the internet and globalization is completely pointless. Culture is always in flux and constantly changing, especially now, so being against change just for the sake of it is setting yourself up for failure. It's mental retardation
>>2363893>So you agree it is brain damage and it is getting upset about literally nothing? Not really, because they've grown up here, in a place that has a unique mix of British, Slavic, South Asian etc culture. They're right to want to preserve it because we have certain norms that the new-comers don't have, and in my experience don't seem to want to have.
>But who cares? First off, giving a single fuck about your "local culture" in the age of the internet and globalization is completely pointless.I guess all anti-colonialists better shut up in that case, because what's the point of caring about their cultures? They live in a globalised world so it's fine! Why do they give a shit?
>Culture is always in flux and constantly changing, especially now, so being against change just for the sake of it is setting yourself up for failure.Culture can change but it can dissapear as well given certain circumstances, and the internet and globalisation are doing exactly that. Many local languages and identities in Europe are dying out because of that. But who cares about preserving actual diversity amirite?
>>2363906no
>>2363860 is the UK census
>>2363899>Not really, because they've grown up here, in a place that has a unique mix of British, Slavic, South Asian etc culture. They're right to want to preserve it because we have certain norms that the new-comers don't have, and in my experience don't seem to want to have. But you just said that you and them are also of immigrant backgrounds. So how is what you brought to the table part of the authentic "local culture" but what new immigrants bring is not?
>I guess all anti-colonialists better shut up in that case, because what's the point of caring about their cultures? They live in a globalised world so it's fine! Why do they give a shit? Lmao are you actually retarded or what? Colonialism is not about the vibe of your "local cultures " it's a system of economic exploitation, oppression and racialisation, enforced through an outside political entity that directly takes over your territory through military conquest.
>Culture can change but it can dissapear as well given certain circumstancesSo? Does everything need to be preserved? Cultures grow, change and die and new ones are born all the time. Why be upset about inevitabilities that don't really effect your life in any practical way?
>Many local languages and identities in Europe are dying out because of that. But who cares about preserving actual diversity amirite?You also upset by the loss of Gothic or Frankish culture as well or what? Maybe we should all get really upset that there's no more real hatmaker or funnelvase culture, they used to be very diverse and widespread also. What a tragedy!! Now we gotta spend endless hours and resources discussing this on the news and build political parties around this!
I just don't get why you care
>>2363901Post skin and membership card to the communist party right now
>>2363917>it's a system of economic exploitation, oppression and racialisation, enforced through an outside political entity that directly takes over your territory through military conquest. Geez that sounds familiar
> So how is what you brought to the table part of the authentic "local culture" but what new immigrants bring is not? The desire to actually be a part of it, lol, which I already mentioned.
>So? Does everything need to be preserved?Yes, history is important.
>You also upset by the loss of Gothic or Frankish culture as well or what?Strawman
>>2363798
> Make your miserable island the cultural and economic center of a massive empire where you displace entire continents worth of people> people from that massive empire move to its capital> bitch about the inevitable consequences of your actionsMaybe you wouldn't have so many Indians in your country if you didn't spend several centuries teaching them English and making them move to Africa and shit.
If you people had to ability to record history beyond a couple centuries you would know this was inevitable. Don't worry though, the immigration will stop when your country turns back into the shithole it was destined to be.
>>2363928>Geez that sounds familiarIndia and Bangladesh are violently conquering, occupying and colonizing the UK? Odd, I hadn't heard about that, care to show me some photos of these foreign occupational soldiers in their military gear?
>The desire to actually be a part of it, lol, which I already mentionedAnd you and your pals have wanted to "be a part of it" and they have not? I presume you have literally zero proof of this and it's purely vibes based once again? It's odd also, cuz I could swear people have been saying this exact same shit about immigrants since modern migration trends began in the 60s
>Yes, history is importantI thought it was the "local culture" , now it's history? Please try not to pivot and stay on topic thanks
>Strawman ☝️🤓Lmao your reddit autismo is nice but…
<Does *everything* (this includes things like Gothic and Frankish culture) need to be preserved>YesHardly seems like a strawman to me dummy
>>23639782021 government statistics show that in the UK, only 75% of residents are white-british; a decrease of 13% from 2001:
>As part of the "White" ethnic group, 74.4% (44.4 million) of the total population in England and Wales identified their ethnic group as "English, Welsh, Scottish, Northern Irish or British", this is a continued decrease from 80.5% (45.1 million) in 2011, and from 87.5% (45.5 million) who identified this way in 2001.https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunity/culturalidentity/ethnicity/bulletins/ethnicgroupenglandandwales/census2021paired with this downward trend, we also see an upward trend for those who identify as "asian"
>The next most common high-level ethnic group was "Asian, Asian British or Asian Welsh" accounting for 9.3% (5.5 million) of the overall population, this ethnic group also saw the largest percentage point increase from 2011, up from 7.5% (4.2 million people).since 2021 and apart from residential statistics, we also have many claimants for asylum, which have reached rates of around 100,000 per year:
>99,790 people claimed asylum in the UK in the year ending September 2024, which was 1% more than in the year ending September 2023. Of these, 77,066 were main applicants and 22,724 were dependants.https://www.gov.uk/government/statistics/immigration-system-statistics-year-ending-september-2024/how-many-people-claim-asylum-in-the-ukfrom current trends, we may see white british people as a minority statistic in the UK by the 2041 national census and most certainly by 2051, if no preventative action is taken.
>>2363825Non whites are for the most part, extremely ethno-centric. Don't think for a second that the moment say, the UK tips more to ethnic majority, there won't be the rolling out of ethnic subjugation against white natives and whatever other groups the leading majority ethnic group dislikes because the vast majority of ethnic groups do not at all, buy into Ethnic secularism and "We are all one race the human race".
Another point is that you have complete destruction of culture. Unironically have watched my local area become majority non-white in the span of the past 15 years, and now we have wet markets, white women are assaulted like crazy, trash everywhere, antisocial attitudes everywhere, what local civic culture here is completely dead and you have a new ethnic group takeover, where they have their own dual power structures and they will never, ever fucking snitch on eachother, and they target other ethnic groups for crime.
This is the REALITY of the situation. The more the left puts their head in the ground, the more the average normie will turn against the left.
>>2364013OP's claim is that immigration lowers wages
anon disagrees
so either immigration raises wages or doesnt affect wages. which is it?
>>2364021? are you illiterate
immigration does lower wages, its how capital works, but masked social relations will make people, even proletarians, blame the most visible subject (immigrants) instead of markets themselves
>>2363893>But who cares? First off, giving a single fuck about your "local culture" in the age of the internet and globalization is completely pointless. Culture is always in flux and constantly changing, especially now, so being against change just for the sake of it is setting yourself up for failure. It's mental retardationWhy in fuck do I want my local culture, which was very community and civic minded, and very polite, and very nice around here, completely erased by a bunch of fucking ethno-centric antisocial fuckwits who think sexually assaulting women in broad daylight is perfectly fine, that trashing everything is fine, that making huge amounts of noise in the streets to 4am is fine, that fucking Wetmarkets are fine, that trashing all public infrastructure is fine?
Sorry, no, this is fucking inane bullshit. I used to think /pol/ was full of shit that much of the left were just "anti-white" but it does seem to be genuinely the case with a huge section of the Western left. You would never say this about Palestinians when they get harassed and abused by Zionists, but it's fine for people to come from corrupt, backwards shitholes, violently refuse to integrate, attack locals and destroy any local culture or civicism.
You do realize the USSR literally had fucking in country passports, because they knew that flooding the cities with bumpkins from backwards underdeveloped areas would just create ghettos and crime.
>>2364037>Why in fuck do I want my local culture, which was very community and civic minded, and very polite, and very nice around here, completely erasedlmao
communism isnt for retarded romantic middle class like you anyway
>>2364029>immigration does lower wagesokay, so OP was right all along
>but masked social relations will make people, even proletarians, blame the most visible subject (immigrants) instead of markets themselvesso markets are to blame for why wages are lowered by immigration?
>>2364039Oh yeah, communism is when you let ethnic ingroups with extremely backwards, conservative, antisocial attitudes completely come in, fuck over all the locals and create crime and trash filled ghettos where locals are fucking attacked and spit on. Yep, actually wanting nice communities that actually existed here only a decade ago, is just "romanticism".
>>2364040Absolute copium.
I'm only half white, and I can tell you right now, most of my extended family on my dads side, as well as every experience I've had in that community, they are extremely ethno-centric. As someone who lives in a overwhelming ethnic majority area, they literally have their own ethnic dual power structures and will never snitch on eachother. They absolutely, 100% have extreme ingroup biases.
I don't get why so many leftists play dumb about this. Most likely nly because you retards hang out with upper middle class suburban bougie ethnics.
All you fucking retards are a major reason the left gains no ground. You put insane liberal ideology over just the living reality of people who actually live through this bullshit.
>>2364063its typical middle class behavior if thats what youre asking
>>2364064>I'm only half whitelol every time
>>2364087yes, you cant.
>>2364089here's another question then. would you rather live in a nice place or a bad place?
>>2364095>le niceor
<le badyou are a mentally retarded, with a childlike understanding of the world around you, you need to be institutionalized.
>>2364111>Desiring something is irrelevant to whether you will ever get ityes, like the lottery. but people still want to win the lottery, no? so i'll ask you in these terms:
would you rather want to be rich or poor?
>>2364018>>2364009>Mass immigration No such thing, no measurable correlation between immigration and wages. Sorry cuck
>>2364013It's not an issue at all, whether the poor proles are brown or white. Wages will be lowered by capitalists regardless. Stay mad
>>2364018Nope I'm right, you're wrong and you're a race obsessed cuck who actually grants rightoids ground on the immigration "issue" lmao
>>2364037>Why in fuck do I want my local culture, which was very community and civic minded, and very polite, and very nice around here, completely erased by a bunch of fucking ethno-centric antisocial fuckwits who think sexually assaulting women in broad daylight is perfectly fine,Please keep your racialized rape fetish to yourself thanks. You can go back to jerking it to cuck porn I don't care, just don't make your weird fetishes other people's problem 👍
>>2364116They want whatever fucks over the "boomers" and "reactionaries" around them because their entire politics are driven by extremely antisocial attitudes based around their boring suburban lives.
Like I've said numerous times, most of todays "communists" would have just been antisocial punks if it was still the 1970s. The western modern Communist movement is an antisocial counter-culture rather than an actual political project.
>>2364132>They want whatever fucks over the "boomers" and "reactionaries"<nooooooooo think of my reserve and property!!!!lmao
>based around their boring suburban livesyour position is the most suburban thing here
>>2364138Dude, just admit, you want things to go to shit and piss off everyone around you because you are an antisocial retard who's politics are driven by spite.
I actually live in an area that got turned into an ethnic enclave, my area went from 80%+ white to 30% white in little over a decade and everything has gone to fucking SHIT and it's a crime infested shithole now with antisocial fucktards everywhere being fucking shitheads all through the day and night. The streets went from spotless to completely trash filled, buildings now have bordered up windows, front terraces are all fucked, you have ethic psychopaths harassing women at the local supermarket. Why in fuck am I supposed to be happy with this huh? Actually explain it.
>>2364154Ah yes, because the average working class person didn't live in a utopia 20 years ago, it's perfectly fine to destroy all local culture and ghettoize literally every working class neighbourhood. Great argument.
>>2364153Dude, Marx literally explains how mass immigration is used to drive down wages and create ethnic tensions and destroys any sense of international solidarity.
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