<Abolish The Family.
<Abolish Religion.
<Abolish Wage Labour.
<Abolish Money.
<Abolish Work.
<Abolish Commodity Production.
<Abolish the State.
<Abolish Class.
<Abolish Private Property.
<Abolish the Nation.
<Abolish Patriarchy.
<Abolish Gender.
<Abolish Town and Country.
If you don't think these are the ultimate goals for a communist party or organization to achieve, I'm sorry to say this but you're not a communist but rather just an edgy social democrat.
108 posts and 22 image replies omitted.>>2368102cuz theres no need to do it lol
>>oh god im gonna assooom oh god amassoooming aaaahjjchanners have liquefied brains bruh
Its very telling of how infected leftists are with bourgeois ideology when even they themselves think actual communism (as understood by most Marxists in the 19th and early 20th century) is impossible. But instead of admitting this themselves they either -
1) Claim communism is something else, like state ownership or planned capitalism or something.
2) Claim real communism is possible but its not possible now because of [bullshit reason] and therefore the important task now is to be a nationalist of some type (Islamic or Chinese or some random 3rd world country)
Leftists are the left-wing of capital. Although in recent years even this definition has become strained, what with leftist support for theocracies, reactionary policies, imperialism etc etc. Leftists were never communists, but nowadays they aren't even leftist.
I think leftism is dying and that's a good thing. EU countries are now like 40% centre-left party, 20% centre-right party and 40% far-right party. With the far right section staedily growing.
The Middle East is, well, a theocratic shithole. China continues to build their glorious class-collaborationist Singapore society. The Pink Tide is dead in South America. South Asia and North America never had any relevant leftist political forces. South East Asia is just too busy growing economically to care about this shit. And even leftists don't give a shit about Africa anymore, let alone the rest of the world. You dont even hear a peep about the 600,000 dead in Sudan from leftist leaders, influencers, streamers, politicians, for example.
>>2368082MLoids are literally arguing up and down this thread that communism is impossible, why the fuck would you think anyone mocking you clowns see you as “commies” of all fucking things?
If you want to argue with redditors, why don’t you go to Reddit? Then again, this place pretty much is Reddit by now
>>2369043Anything but Hitlerism is utopian
Read Foundations of Leninism, lib
>>2367666>With the election of Zohran, I really do feel certain that revolution/civil war is imminent in the future, there’s no way on the face of the planet that plans for communist murder aren’t already being drawn up in the most powerful boardrooms in this country. Jewish finance imperialists feel unsafe tho :(
>all these 2A fed hating orcs are probably going to get mobilized against us in some sort of absurd reverse cultural revolution<"against us"Your democratic socialist friends soyfaced at John Fetterman while he was running around with a shotgun threatening black people who made him feel unsafe.
https://readsettlers.org/ >>2368598I think this is the point that is most relevant to a lot of posters here. You're not anything as long as you don't do anything. Considering how (a lot of) people act here, I don't see any reason to take them seriously in their conviction.
>>2368855As reasonable an expectation of future society as any.
Me personally, I should curb my drinking so I'll go one step further, as it were, and say I'd be fine if there is rationing. Like no drinking on weekdays (or whatever your shifts look like). How do you expect to become the next Stakhanov if you turn up hungover all the time?
But for now, TGIF. Mañana forever. Tomorrow I'll stop drinking.
>>2369031>MLoids are literally arguing up and down this thread that communism is impossible, No they're not, unfortunately you are just a permanently retarded idealist incapable of actually understanding what communism actually is
>why the fuck would you think anyone mocking you clowns see you as “commies” of all fucking things?Hey dummy, I'm saying that terms such as redfash or tankie are substitutes for words like commie. I'm calling you an anticommunist
>If you want to argue with redditors, why don’t you go to Reddit? Then again, this place pretty much is Reddit by nowOnly thing reddit here is you
>>2369749> No they're not, unfortunately you are just a permanently retarded idealist incapable of actually understanding what communism actually is MLs use the term idealism very frequently
But they genuinely don’t know what it means
They think, for instance, claiming a country is socialist, because it cannot achieve socialism, but its leaders want to achieve socialism hypothetically, is not idealist nonsense
MLs are, if anything, a return to the utopians of the 19th Century
> Hey dummy, I'm saying that terms such as redfash or tankie are substitutes for words like commie. I'm calling you an anticommunist I know, and such an accusation is meaningless from someone who amounts to a red liberal, whose politics are constructed around idealist substitutionism, and who can happily support the butchering of proletarians and communists in the “right circumstances” (i.e. they betrayed the Fatherland in some sense, most typically)
It’s beyond a farce for MLs, who openly celebrate fratricidal violence between socialists, in the name of “necessity” (capital accumulation) to accuse their critics of “anti-communism”. The secret is that, if MLs engaged with the nuance of their critics, they would cease to be MLs, and become communists. It is telling that most ML defensiveness relies deeply on apologism (“You don’t understand, obviously a true DOTP must be constructed around wage labor, capital accumulation, market price signals, and MUST have room for placing dissenting proles or even just insufficient workers in forced labor camps! Due to the necessity of the moment and no, obviously international revolution cannot solve this problem, because the proletariat cannot be expected to overcome the true political form, the national state! Anyway those are CIA lies, even when the leaders of these countries were extremely open about this dynamic!”), childish pejoratives (self-explanatory), or offense at an interlocutor’s (it means the person you are arguing with) lack of sentimental reverence for whatever regime or politician MLs feel personal sentimental reverence for.
It’s telling that fratricidal violence, sexual abuse, individual abuse, and splitting are all extremely common features of ML militant movements, states, parties, and those inspired by them such as Maoists, Trots, etc
I think what I will do is I'll recycle old material.
I think we have been well over all that.
>>2367690Note also the reversal going on
The
real movement is actually the fictional movement of the future and what is really happening in
reality is all just to be denounced and whatever. Else you are not a
real communist (lol)
I'm starting to think these people haven't ever actually read Marx.
Remember as well, everyone wants to live in Shangri-La.
Everyone wants good things and abhors bad things. You ain't special for it.
>>2369764>MLs use the term idealism very frequently Lots of idealists around
>They think, for instance, claiming a country is socialist, because it cannot achieve socialism, but its leaders want to achieve socialism hypothetically, is not idealist nonsenseNo they don't, nobody thinks this lol. Is it really that difficult to actually engage with actual arguments?
>I knowClearly you didn't or you wouldn't have gotten your panties in a twist with that whole"why the fuck would you think anyone mocking you clowns see you as “commies"
>Moralism about le butchered proles Lmao faggot, you gonna post a picture of a pitbull asking for more proles next? Maybe you'd feel more at home on r/ultraleft or wherever hole you crawled out from
>It’s beyond a farce for MLs, who openly celebrate fratricidal violence between socialists, in the name of “necessity” (capital accumulation) to accuse their critics of “anti-communism”. The secret is that, if MLs engaged with the nuance of their critics
>More moralism about "celebrating" le wrong thing
>B..but I'm not an idealist tho Lmao, every time
>You don’t understand, obviously a true DOTP must be constructed around wage labor, capital accumulation, market price signals, and MUST have room for placing dissenting proles or even just insufficient workers in forced labor camps! Due to the necessity of the moment and no, obviously international revolution cannot solve this problem, because the proletariat cannot be expected to overcome the true political form, the national state! Anyway those are CIA lies, even when the leaders of these countries were extremely open about this dynamic!Damn dude that's a biting critique, but uhmm quick question, how's your DotP doing? Has it been established in the last 100 years? No? Sooo it's just an idea, a state of affairs if you will, in your head? That you think needs establishing yeah? Interesting
>offense at an interlocutor’s (it means the person you are arguing with)Wouldn't be an argument with an ultra without the unsubstantiated, self congratulatory arrogance lmao
>It’s telling that fratricidal violence, sexual abuse, individual abuse, and splitting are all extremely common features of ML militant movements, states, parties, and those inspired by them such as Maoists, Trots, etcWell, movements that actually exist and actually do things in the real world run into problems yeah, it's a feature of not just being an idealistic conception in your head like anarchism or leftcomism or whatever bullshit you uphold (if you even stand for anything at all and are not just an anticommunist like my original post that struck u so much implied)
In conclusion: you are a permanently retarded idealist who couldn't recognize the real movement if it lined him up against the wall and shot him
>>2369800It isn’t moralism to recognize the enemies of MLs are proletarians and communists
I judge people by who they slaughter, MLs slaughter proles, communists, and other MLs more than anyone else. To even fight a bourgeois power, they literally had to be invaded by them lmao. In fact, ML states have historically done everything in their power to avoid war with the openly imperialist states, while never in their history hesitating to massacre that class they profess to uphold, and that movement they claim to move towards. My answer for why is quite simple, because they were trying to consolidate a bourgeois nationalist regime, and required legitimacy in the eyes of the Western imperialist powers to do so. The explanation of MLs is that those millions of proles and hundreds of thousands of communists were
jews CIA or some other type of ideological enemy. I tend to think a regime that butchers communists and enslaves proletarians to wage labor, and maintains that class to begin with, is simply a bourgeois regime. It seems the easiest explanation for its actions.
Can you critique my argument, or will your defense be that those proles and communists were simply
k!k£$ CIA, and that true socialism, rather than an international proletarian revolution, is an alliance of national states that kill proletarians when convenient and build their entire economies around the extraction of surplus value?
Or will you out yourself as a liberal and claim economies necessarily extract surplus value to function?
>>2369800In fact, I think what’s truly idealist, is, again, claiming you are socialist, because socialism is what you hope to achieve. “Measure me not by the millions of proles I have shot, nor by the countless millions more I have shackled to the wage chain working to enlarge the coffers and profits of the state. No. Judge me by my aesthetics, my rhetoric, the power I hope to wield, and the aspirations I profess to hold” so says the Marxist-Leninist.
Also lol at the idea of ML states representing any sort of DOTP
I suppose a gang rape can also be a DotP by ML standards
>>2369832>It isn’t moralism to recognize the enemies of MLs are proletarians and communistsIt is and it's idealism and individualism too
>I judge people by who they slaughterSo you're a retarded moralist? Yeah I already told you, you don't have to keep repeating it lol
>Ahistorical ramble filled with unfounded assertions Very nice, but how's your movement doing? Oh, you don't have one? You have no revolutions? You have no DotP? And you have no bitches? Shame, but you shouldn't take out your seething jealousy for actual accomplishment on those who actually move history, how about you start moving history yourself pal and then you wouldn't look so pathetic in your resentments
>Can you critique my argument, What argument is that?
>MLs want to kill!! They just kill proles!! Thousands! Millions!! A 100 million killed by evil, powerhungry filthy commies uhhh I mean MLs who just want to kill proles and establish liberal capitalism (liberalism is when a country is governed by a communist party)Hardly worth responding to
>>2369835>More moralism about le slaughter God it never ends with you lmao
>ML can't do no DotPHow's your DotP doing? Conviently you completely ignored my statements about the whole preconceived state of affairs thing and your own movement. Care to mention what line you uphold? How well has that line done in establishing a DotP? I'm gonna go out on a limb here and make the prediction that it has never ever even come close to leading a revolution, let alone establishing something like a DotP
>Weird gangrape reference out of nowhere Keep your fetishes to yourself please
>>2369849he has a point anon, if you're constantly physically waging war against proletarians, your enemies are proletarians in a functional sense.
a lot of what you're saying here isn't an argument against that. 'ur doing a moralism' isn't a very good argument against that. you'd do better justifying it through a higher-logic than getting outraged about it.
>>2369862>he has a point anon, if you're constantly physically waging war against proletarians, your enemies are proletarians in a functional sense. It's a false premise. No ML state has "waged war against proletarians". It's just moralistic outrage at ML states being real things and thus having to contend with the actual world where people die
>a lot of what you're saying here isn't an argument against that. 'ur doing a moralism' isn't a very good argument against that. you'd do better justifying it through a higher-logic than getting outraged about it.I'm not outraged by it, it's just silly. I could talk about the real movement, the actual struggle for the seizure of state power by the proletariat, the subsequent establishment of the DotP, socialist construction and the contention with capitalist reaction and imperialism till I'm blue in the face. This Anon will never listen, because it's not about the real world, real history or real class struggle for them. It's just another vector for their anti communist sentiment.
Therefore, "you're a moralist" is perfectly sufficient
>>2369931The USSR, the MPR, the GDR, the PRC, The DPRK, The PRA, the SRV, the SRB, the CSR, the PRH, the PRP, Cuba, Laos, Yugoslavia
Now, name anything at all, doesn't even have to be a DotP, your line (which you don't have, because you are nothing but an anticommunist) has established anywhere, ever. I'll wait
>>2369849>How’s your DotP doing?Well it isn’t slaughtering proletarians, making concessions with the Western imperialists it claims to hate, maintaining wage labor and commodity production, wasting labor power to produce world destroying weaponry that aren’t meant to be used, upholding nationalism, fighting fratricidal wars against other “DOTPs”, helping save world capitalism repeatedly, openly destroying itself to re-establish bourgeois societies without even the farcical pretense of being anything else, and having nothing to show for its entire existence other than a bunch of far right nationalist regimes where the farce used to exist and some teenaged honkies in the West desperately attaching themselves to it despite their utter lack of attachment
You people are such clowns
Ignoring the fact that you worship bourgeois regimes solely due to their aesthetics, the Cold War propaganda of your own country, and your personal powerlessness, I legit can’t think of anything more utterly, disgustingly pathetic than the general tendency of Western MLs to pretend like they personally are not losers and failures and somehow “better” than any other person that calls themselves a socialist because they, personally, feel emotionally attached to regimes they, personally, had nothing at all to do with
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