🗽UNITED STATES POLITICS 🦅
<Operation "Throw Fries Shoot Gulls" EditionThread for the hellish discussion related to
the scourge of the earth, the destroyer of nations, the king of coups, the sultan of sanctions, the emir of the embargo, the autocrat of austerity, the doge of deregulation, the baron of busting unions, the prince of privatization, the lord of loan sharks, the patron-saint of proxy wars, the sponsor of settlers, the guarantor of genocides, the Divided $nakkkes of Amerikkka™
🏈 💵 🌭 🍔
🛠️ Strike Tracker ⚒️https://striketracker.ilr.cornell.edu/🇺🇸 Deeds of the Burger Reich 🇺🇸https://github.com/dessalines/essays/blob/main/us_atrocities.md📺 Live News 📺(sponsored by USAID)
• CNN:
https://www.livenewsnow.com/american/cnn-news-usa.html• MSNBC:
https://www.livenewsnow.com/american/msnbc.html• FOX:
https://www.livenewsnow.com/american/fox-news-channel.html• Bloomberg:
https://www.bloomberg.com/live/us✊ Live Protest Streams ✊https://woke.net/Previous thread:
>>2366781 >>2367757no lol
also does it have to go to the senate again if/when the house passes it, or does it go straight to the president (i'm not american)
>>2367785The people pitching these ideas were focused on their own enrichment as well. It was more like trying to present yourself as having a plan and a lot of money so you could tie up more investors in your project and kickstart it.
>>2367787>>2367790The white house wants to pass it by tomorrow, so presumably it's just going on Trump's desk. It's not entirely certain yet whether the house will vote for it though. It's a 50/50 on whether Trump can unite the GOP and have Demcucks vote for it, or whether internal divisions in the Republican party give way to deny it
It's wild to me that people online, like online leftists, will send me fucking messages telling me to kill myself and talk about how I'm a grifter, but I'm literally like 72 hours from being homeless, fucking, I'm rehoming my dog, like I am probably never been, I've never been this down bad before in my life, and at the same time I reached out to Hello Orgs, I fucking, I'm the one who was like let's donate this money to Palestine, let's donate this money to this charity, like let's donate them to the Red Crescent Society, like I did the fucking fire, like I put out the word, like let's make this space, this venue, a meeting ground for all the political parties that are on the left, all the socialist and anarchist orgs and shit, like if you're a part of that, come here. I'm doing all this while I'm this fucking down bad, and motherfuckers will still send me hate messages, and it's like bro, what do you fucking want from me, like pick up a shovel, because dog, I'm been digging and my shoulders are getting fucking tired.
I'm not sure what the fuck else I'm supposed to do. What is leftism supposed to look like? Like, what is the whole point of this? And I'm gonna be posted up with hella flyers, hella fucking zines, hella pamphlets. I got Capital for Dummies, Imperialism for Dummies, Beginner's Guide to Mutual Aid, fucking all types of stuff we're gonna have on display. I'm the one who organized the damn event. I'm one person, one individual who is barely able to stay alive because I'm unemployed just like 25% of America, big homie. I ain't nothing special about what I'm dealing with. People live in motels, people fucking are unemployed, people fucking live on the street. That's the fucking nature of the beast. That's the nature of the beast, and you motherfuckers are telling me I'm a grifter. I'm out here living in reality.
I have a trans friend who is going to be without healthcare because they live in Arkansas right now. And I linked them up with another person who lives in Philadelphia, who I met through the magazine. And when their lease is up in Arkansas, they're moving to Philadelphia. Wow. Putting two and two together through a platform, thats what this magazine can do.
I reached out to the guy who runs Means TV. We spoke for about an hour and a half a couple of months ago, a few months ago. And I reached out to him and I asked him, one, to read an article that I was quite proud of, two, to let him know that I was still thinking about our meeting and our discussion, and three, to ask him if he could send out our GoFundMe through his network, because all of those people who are on his platform are in his network. That's every major leftist YouTuber media personality. They never got back to me, and I don't think they are going to get back to me. I don't think they're going to push my content into that network. And that's a small club, and motherfucker, you are not in it. And I think about that. How hard would it have been for this motherfucker to shoot an email to all these cats who are supposed to be on the same team as me? Motherfucker cannot get no fucking support. Homegirl of mine brought me a fucking Walmart bag full of groceries from her fucking pantry, big dog. That's real praxis. That's real mutual aid. I'm eating one of the cereal bars right now for breakfast. We're in the trenches because we're fucking soldiers in a class war. What the fuck do you expect?
Furthermore, anytime I speak about anything, I'm putting myself at risk. Like, on a fundamental level, if we're being absolutely 100% serious, when you speak about the things that I speak about in some of the pieces I've written, you are putting yourself in hot water. No one is getting fucking additional support for being an advocate of Palestine. No one is getting additional deals, brand deals, for being a communist. The idea that I'm a grifter is just the stupidest fucking thing that I've had to deal with. Like, bro, if I wanted to grift a culture magazine, I could just not talk about politics. I could do the whole Houdini thing and just never talk about politics and run a successful magazine, because I evidently am able to do that with the politics, which the politics does work against me. It is off-putting to at least some portion of the population. So if I was grifting, you would think I wouldn't take a principled fucking stance on things, but instead I go out of my way to make it a point that if we're going to have a counterculture, it needs to be explicitly anti-capitalist, anti-imperialist, and militant. Nope, I must be a grifter. Dog. That doesn't make sense. I feel like I've been gaslighted by people who should be allies to me. It's ridiculous. I'm tired of it.
>>2367814>Why is capitalist media so transparent in regards to all thisBecause the point was the cruelty. I mean sending a few hundred people to your bitcoin dictator's prison camp has no material effect whatsoever. THe people sent aren't even leaders or particularly relevant opponents of the ruling class. They are just making a show of it, like when they brag about the awful conditions in ICE detention camps at the border, or when they separate migrants from their family and "lose" their sons and daughters.
THe cruelty is the point.
But until not so long ago it was *just* the cruelty, the show of it. Because imperialism does rely heavily on migration its own policies causes. LAbor moving through borders is just another form of capital. And it is convenient to "brain drain" the periphery and import an underclass of easily coerced migrants to depress domestic wages. And foment economic and political dependence through remittances and vast "diaspora" voting blocks.
But now things are changing somewhat. We are going head first into the cold war and we are entering a period where it's going to be a Syria/Libya/Venezuela/Nicaragua every single year. That is way too much migration and the usual controls are nowhere enough to contain the wage slaves back in the regions they are meant to be exploited at, nor to control the demographics at home to not to heavily swing outside of comfort.
You can only create so many gusanos over time, if you import half a country's population over a single year, because you set their homes on fire and destroyed their economy, you are not gonna end up with obedient "dreamers". Again, as was the case for when NATO destroyed some country in MENA and it became mandatory for some intermediary country like Turkey to absorb all the refugees, or face demographic and political difficulties for the imperialist powers.
So now they are building this actual security state a round migration as a form of safe nationalism which empowers all the domestic fascists without their ideological nonsense veering too far from the interests of the bourgeoisie. It is okay to terrorize "illegal aliens" into being good clandestine wage slaves, but that's as far as the leash stretches in enabling white nationalism. The obvious conclusion being the fascists will have to find the internal enemy/scapegoat on "the left", which as the red scare pis made more explicit will also be related to China and foreign influence in general, putting a nice xenophobic ribbon that ties it all together.
>>2367833 (me)
To put it shortly: The imperial core are adopting the policies toward the periphery that Israel has towards non-Jews.
>>2367846The hacktivist space has been dead and gone for over a decade.
move on anon ffs.
>>2367875someone needs to put this cunt on 2X speed.
Bring the zoomers in already jfc this will send a man mad.
>>2367844please explain what you meant by this. my question was
>so did anyone figure out WHY that wignat lured/killed those firefighters the other dayI wanted a specific answer, not a link to some psychobabble from glowiepedia
>>2367815>It's wild to me that people online, like online leftists, will send me fucking messages telling me to kill myself and talk about how I'm a grifter,me: "you must should start the American Workers Party lol"
>>2367825>I'm the one who organized the damn event. I'm one person, one individual who is barely able to stay alive because I'm unemployedGive your money to Erik Houdini to start the American Workers Party
I think we need a united front, and these cultural events and venues can be the space for people from the PSL, from the DSA, from the FRSO, to come, from the Mutual Aid Orgs, from the Food Not Bombs Org, to come, discuss, chat. Oh, you're a market socialist. That's great. I'm an anarcho-communist. Oh, you're a hardline anarchist. Awesome, awesome. And you're into democratic centralism? The point is, you get all these people in the same room, in the same space, and you make space for them to have discussion, while we still have time to have those discussions, because keep in mind, they could come and repress our communities at any time. These are queer spaces that have historically been policed. Left spaces have historically been policed. So we build the space to have the discussions while we have the time, so we could do what? Drumroll, please. Build the will for revolution. This is like basic revolutionary theory, big dog. I need to build a material base of supporters if I'm going to have a party or some sort of actual organization beyond a magazine. I need to be able to have 50 people paying me $25 a month. If I can get 50 people to pay me $25 a month, then I can do this full-time and not have to worry about being on the street. 50 people, $25. For 25 people, $50. You see what I'm saying? I feel like if I can't do that How can I possibly be a leader of anything when I'm literally about to be homeless, literally about to be fucking on the street?
Like, the problem is, I don't know how to make this magazine make money without having a shitload of money to spend to get started. All of these brands that have success have a lot of money to start with. I can't even afford to get a test print of three pieces of my own clothing to get. And I have the models, I have everything lined up, and I cannot even afford to do that because I am so fucking down. I'm gonna be honest with you, Chief, I really appreciate the kind compliment. I'm trying to internalize the kind compliments that people do give me more. Not just write it off as a sarcastic joke that, like, maybe you really do think that I could restart the American Workers' Party or some shit like that. I don't know. I would just like to fucking not be homeless. Um, my cup is just about empty, and I keep finding more water in there. But it's hard to even just think about everything that's happening in the world when you're literally on the edge of the abyss yourself. And I know that that's not an excuse, but I'm exhausted also in part because I don't have an outlet of people to discuss the way I feel about this shit with. I don't have family members that I could just call up and tell them how I feel. That's not an option for me. So I'm just trying to be locked in, grindset, mindset, just fucking buckle down, hustle, and get it. But- I'm fucking tired.
>>2368024no, it is too early to get tired.
The story ends when the feds put a bullet in our heads. Inspire yourself from Tay K – the hustle never ends kkkomrade
>>2368055yep
americans feast on the treats of their imperialist looting
it's good that yankees suffer now and then
>>2368168Ah, so he's one of those schizos who believes imperialist propaganda about life here.
No, really, that's what it kinda boils down to with these people. They think High School Musical and Friends are real
>>2367833>So now they are building this actual security state a round migration as a form of safe nationalism which empowers all the domestic fascists without their ideological nonsense veering too far from the interests of the bourgeoisie. It is okay to terrorize "illegal aliens" into being good clandestine wage slaves, but that's as far as the leash stretches in enabling white nationalism. The obvious conclusion being the fascists will have to find the internal enemy/scapegoat on "the left", which as the red scare pis made more explicit will also be related to China and foreign influence in general, putting a nice xenophobic ribbon that ties it all together.Another reason is that that the GOP needs to give their base
something to secure their loyalty and that something will come in the form of a jobs program targeted towards them. Also, the infrastructure being built to detain and deport "Illegals" can easily repurposed for domestic repression.
>>2367959>MIGAtards should have read the fine print on what Trump meant by "Making America Great Again".Most of these people are signing up to join ICE or be private prison guards, they're not really going to suffer from this. They're going to be getting good benefits and money for a long time.
>>2368169>now that the "threat" of terrorism has either been lost to or converted to US puppets, what is the new "threat"?It'll be fighting the "CCP" through supporting coups and "moderate rebels" to bomb Chinese-built infrastructure and kill "CCP agents". The USA not in any shape to do anything else this decade.
>>2368206>If this happened again in the current climate it would be insanely good propaganda for the Left.And the rightoids are so chickenshit and openly depraved that they'll not only do it but post videos of it on X.com.
>>2368214MANGOES
MAIDENS
PARADISE
>>2368232>Hip Hop AmericansYou are
so slick and witty, /pol/.
>>2368253>So the SocDem side of the Democratic party won with Mamdani but the AssBundance bros got the CEQA reform in California and their leaders were shouted out by Gruesome Newsom. (I don't even hate the reform, I think a bunch of dickhead boomers use that law too much when they don't want an apartment built because "muh house price"). Can you repeat this but in English? What is CEQA?
>What do you personally see winning the soul of the Democratic Party. I could maybe see a "Democratic Tea Party" happening since the Dem Base for once is not just glazing leadership, but incumbency and their inner nature to always defend establishment could sway that desire.The Dem base are never going to overcome the party elites until they drop their obsession with worshiping media. So long as NYT/WSJ/MSNBC/WAPO/etc have a stranglehold on liberal brains they will be forever cucked. Libs love to make fun of MAGAs for their Fox News brainrot but they're just as retarded and let NYT trick them into thinking Bernie was a communist TWICE.
>>2368229>Any DSA bros tell me about the different factions of DSA. Keep hearing about DSA Left and DSA RightI'm not a member but I don't think it really matters because DSA national is more or less useless. The organization is more like a confederation of local initiatives, so the DSA Left could have a majority on the national board (I actually don't know if they do) and the NYC-DSA chapter can just ignore them. I don't take that factional stuff seriously.
>And they always dismiss AOC Right, but it doesn't matter and nobody cares.
>>2368253>What do you personally see winning the soul of the Democratic Party … Doesn't feel post-2016 where the SocDems were basically fighting a steep mountain I can see some sorta hybrid of the Mamdani/AOC left-populism and the abundance bros. Ro Khanna on Adam Friedland's show thought the progressive wing is in a better position for 2028 compared to Bernie, there's a larger number of people now, they just need to be "activated." The other factor is the Republican budget going hard into austerity which is going to fuck up the country really bad.
>>2368263>The Dem base are never going to overcome the party elites until they drop their obsession with worshiping media. So long as NYT/WSJ/MSNBC/WAPO/etc have a stranglehold on liberal brains they will be forever cucked. I think this is happening to some extent. Just a vibe. My liberal boomer dad (he's basically like Jeff Tiedrich in his politics) was a NYT subscriber and cancelled his subscription a few months ago. The NYT also went pretty hard against Mamdani and then 💀
>>2368253>I could maybe see a "Democratic Tea Party" happening since the Dem Base for once is not just glazing leadership, but incumbency and their inner nature to always defend establishment could sway that desire.There's a joke some old Republicans say; "the best part about becoming conservative is you don't have to stop hating Republicans." Which is to say, fundamentally the Democrats' base has a vastly different relationship to the party than the Republicans.
One of the most frustrating cliches I hear whenever arguing with dems is this idea that: "Well politicians go where the votes are, progressives don't vote, so they have to appeal to centrists." This is fundamentally misunderstanding policy and politicians; it's treating policies you want like a "reward" for voting. The politicians are elevated to teachers handing out gold stars to the good kids. Paired with this is this misunderstanding, "Well, the Republicans always vote! So the party can gives them right wing policy as a reward!"
The Republican Party is ruthlessly competitive and has a vicious primary process. The Tea Party wave didn't just unseat democrats, it primary'd some Republicans, too. Republicans are completely unafraid of handing an election to the democrats if it means primarying a "RINO". Hell, in my own state of California, part of the reason the Republican Party is so dead out here is because the base just outright refuses to obey the establishment party and accept a watered down Republican. It's so chaotic that there's been occasions where the Party just
refuses to endorse a candidate because ultra right wing candidates will just run as independents anyways and split the vote.
So Republicans aren't "loyal voters", they tell the establishment straight up: "Fuck you, either do this my way or lose." Even in cases (like California) where the establishment may genuinely be correct in its approach of more moderate policies, Republican voters will refuse to vote for anyone who isn't right wing enough. Seriously, we're a liberal state and they wanted to elect a guy who vowed to fire half of all the teachers we got out here and said black people should pay reparations to former slave owners.
Compare that to the democratic primaries where every candidate was too afraid to point out Joe Biden was dying on stage. Dems know they could throw out the threat of trans people or immigrants being brutalized by Republicans to whip the Left into obedience. Dem voters also see vicious primaries as a "betrayal" because IF a candidate wins despite going through a brutal primary process, they're afraid all the antics in the primary will taint general election results. Like, Trump called Ted Cruz's wife a cow or something, yeah? Republicans don't care if they rip each other apart because they want the strongest candidate to lead. Hillary was blaming Bernie Sanders being too mean as one of the reasons she lost the election.
I have hope in a sea change though. Trump is basically every liberal's worst nightmare, and the complete inability of Dems to act as an opposition party (combined with Trump single-handedly proving "our hands are tied" isn't a valid excuse if you've got political will) might finally be what drives the base over the edge.
>>2368339provide
political evidence the
government is doing what you say they're doing
>>2368263>Can you repeat this but in English? What is CEQA?Basically it was a pretty strict environmental law that limited development, it stands for California Environmental Quality Act. Like most things that have had negative knock-on effects in our state, it goes back to when Reagan was governor.
Basically it required any new development to analyze and take steps to mitigate various impacts on the environment, ranging from things like wildlife and soil to aesthetics and noise.
See the problem was that it was so fucking broad-reaching that it basically became the go-to NIMBY law to stop all development through tons of lawsuits and lawfare. I think it was discovered that literally just 15% of groups using CEQA to stop development were actually environmental groups; the rest were groups with names like "Homeowners for steady property values" or some shit. Think of it as a veto on any kind of development.
Another example of how stupid it is: "automobile congestion is a negative environmental impact… hence we can't create bike lanes 'cause that can cause traffic to be congested!" It can delay anything from new homes to apartments for, on average, about 2 and a half years.
>>2368226600 Breezy responds.
Too much goofiness in these streets these days smdh my damn head fam.
>>2368366oh noooooo zohran will have to make a NEW NYPD
how horrible
>>2368386fizzlecucks LOST
they LOSE all the time
>>2368434America does this pretty frequently forcing "austerity" bills on other countries to force privatization and destruction of social services. America is probably the #1 sponsor of the 50 year Tory quest to kill the NHS for example.
>>2368435Both parties held primaries, if not in 2024 then in 2020 and 2016. They all had candidates that weren't genocidal lunatics. You can't claim you didn't vote for it when you literally voted for it every step of the way and gave your consent by continuing to go along with this supposed rigged system out of your own self-interest.
>>2368453This lol. You cannot have suffering and radicalization following after if there does not exist a thing to blow off that steam. We’ll be stuck in the perpetual occasional riots that achieve fuck all with regards to a political mass action. Not enough people study revolutions and the conditions that precipitated it. Every single time without fail you’ll see that there was already a building mass movement with central actors that took advantage of that mass movement and pushed it forward. Even though we have DSA, too much energy is funneled into its electoral advocacy which is fine if you read Rosa Luxembourg, but not enough of that organization for example is rooted directly in people’s lives. What used to exist was the trade union movement which was directly rooted in a working person’s life and the party which directly dealt and interacted with the working class and funneled the then working class into voting for the party. Same for the university PMC types, through the party they interacted with the trade unions and then with the broader working class directly. It was a beautiful system, not perfect, but beautiful in its feedback loop that kept the working class momentum. Unfortunately with the red scare and with the destruction of the unions, there doesn’t exist a way for the working class to be directly tied to any party or economic institution tied to a party. Union membership is actually still falling despite the seeming rise in union membership some time ago.
I don’t mean to be a doomer but we really are atomized politically. There won’t be a revolution or any kind of broad revolutionary impulse, just random protests that are isolated. In America that impulse may see itself appear in the form of a Bernie Sanders or now Mamdani but that’s just individuals responding to a broader sentiment that cannot be harnessed in any proper way. The US effectively killed the working class movement from Nixon to Reagan.
>>2368452What's that saying about not interrupting your enemy when he's making a mistake?
As much as I deeply resent Americans for their sheltered lifestyle this bill will inevitably backfire. The Gaza genocide is just my reason for not feeling sorry for Americans, because I have more empathy for poor brown children born in an open air shooting range without any control over their lives. But fundamentally it is advancing the conditions for revolution so we're all moving in the same direction even if I don't break down into tears every time an American is forced to suffer the consequences of their electoral system.
>>2368478>>2368481Then do something about it instead of sitting on your ass in front of a computer acting superior.
You won't because you're a misanthrope hiding behind a cause you don't even believe in.
>>2368453Vooting is the pressure release valve for radicalization. Any revolution or revolutionary organization needs to spawn between now and November 2026 otherwise hazbin hotels will just go back to worshiping the system.
This isn't to say "it won't work" or "nothing will happen" but rather it should be a call to action that NOW is the time to start radicalizing people and seize the narrative on this instead of waiting for an opportunity that will never come.
>>2368487Fuck yourself with a goddamn funko pop dry, every worker I personally know loathes our foreign policy and is against the IDF
You do not talk to workers, you talk to fellow terminally online losers all day. Touch grass or shut the fuck up
>>2368491Actions speak louder than words. If these coworkers of yours hate the American empire as you so claim why have none of them formed an army? How come nobody has formed an army despite “everyone” in America supposedly hating imperialism? Why wasn’t there a revolution in 2003? Or 2001? Or even 2011? American imperialist warmongering in YOUR lifetime that condemned tens of millions to agonizing deaths and yet not a peep.
The hard truth is that you don’t actually have a problem with imperialism, you just want to distribute treats more evenly among the volk
>>2368496On average America's voter turnout is 60%. 3 in 5 Americans vote. Don't lie to me that they didn't ask for this. Americans are just upset now that Trump's evil goons are focused on shitting up their own country instead of shitting up the rest of the world. They desperately want him to go back to warring with Iran and stop talking about domestic policy. I wish all these outraged libs were this mad over Obama's drone strikes on civilians. Maybe we wouldn't be in this mess if they were.
>>2368501Suspending elections would be the one thing that dooms America's political duopoly so I kinda doubt it. Like seriously if you remove elections it'll be 4 or maybe 5 years before America has a popular revolution due to unreleased political stress on the system. I hope they do it.
>>2368517not just migrants
those camps are for all the people cut from benefits too
>>2368546they already are in England by enforcing huge sweeping anti-protest reforms
the EU will have its own ICE soon
>>2368552because it was a war they couldn't win and they had no benefit in entering it from an imperialist perspective
america has lost in the middle east, all they're doing now is desperately conceding to it in exchange for its precious oil that feeds their dying empire
just like british decolonisation, there is a catch, a catch that the british would still linger and influence their former colonies
>>2368400>Shootings in NYC are never gang related but usually random YNs that want to make a name for themselves.What is the difference? A gang is just a bunch of "Young uyghas" that want to make a name for themselves collectively.
No one wants to admit it, but the stop and frisk and zero tolerance policies in NY for getting caught with a gun brought the shootings down a lot. Also New York has a lower rate of car ownership than other cities. NGMI if you have to get away on foot.
>>2368611 (me)
>inb4 why haven't they pushed the magic worker's vanguard partyBecause that takes infrastructure that got fucking destroyed in the 70s and 80s, and the socialist movement was just barely rebuilding itself before now.
>>2368537The problem is that it's basically projecting our own awareness of these problems onto a low-information populace. It's sidelining the problem of propaganda and lying through omission.
Does that mean I give them all a free pass? No, some of them were warned repeatedly of what the stakes were, and deliberately ignored that.
>>2368552you stupid fucking bitch
trump just bought time for israel to get replenished
>>2368643I really don't buy that argument, because it's just vibes-based incredulity.
>You mean to tell me a propaganda apparatus can go on for that long???? That generations of people can be lied to???The fuck do you call the catholic church?
>>2368631Lol
lmfao
kek
zozzle even
Amerikkka just handicapped its already crumbling ability to keep up with China. Thinking the US is still gonna have the same amount of global influence it has today in 5 years is psychotic. It's already slipping. Sorry kkkrackkka you had a nice run !!!
>>2368654The problem is that this describes an attitude that's been basically dying.
You would have had a valid argument in the years after 9/11, but the utter clusterfucks in Iraq and Afghanistan have soured people on war, and basically, they have no input.
There was a recent poll taken that asked voters if they wanted war with Iran - a VAST majority said "no"
>>2368619Marx:
>Capitalism's development actually creates the conditions for its own demiseThird Worldists:
<"Actually the more developed Capitalism gets, the more secure it becomes and past a point its demise becomes impossible"Marx:
>Even in a neighborhood where everyone has a home, someone having a home with an extra floor or that's bigger can still create class antagonismsThird Worldists:
<"Actually even if only a few people have a home and the rest are debt slaves or homeless, class antagonism ceases to exist because they're still better off than a random African person."Marx:
>Service work like transportation, working in a grocery store, waiting tables, still makes one part of the proletariat because you play an important role in shortening the circuit of money - commodity - money; you're still producing valueThird Worldists:
<"Unless you're actually in the mines or the steel mills physically creating commodities, you don't create any value."Marx:
>The birth of capitalism is bloody and horrific, but it also banished the old feudal superstitions and has made it possible to achieve a higher standard of living. The only way out is through.Third Worldists:
<"Actually the birth of Capitalism is ontologically evil and we need to reset the clock to a time before Capitalism.">>2368632I mean, I sympathize with them inasmuch as I sympathize with anyone. I just don't make a big show of it.
>>2368638He's got a weird psycho-sexual fascination with war and death. The dude loves bringing up rape and murder totally unprompted and going into violent fantasies of what he'd do if he had any political power.
100% certain he has a gore folder. It's like how Qanon freaks obsess about trans folks grooming kids but have tons of CP on their hard drives.
>>2368625t. Chohn Schutterman supporter.
>>2368657>thousand year burgerreichThey just gutted Medicare to fund a jobs program for Patriot Front goons, destroyed their soft power and permanently ceded future technologies like solar power to China. I guess it means that Gordon Chang is right this time and the "CCP" is going to fall in 2 weeks and America is going to rule the rest of the century.
>>2368670The answer you're going to get is "spoils of imperialism."
The problem is that it's a dated argument. They would have been able to point to this back in the 50s/60s/70s, but conditions have deteriorated since then, and even then, it was flawed, because the 60s, at the height of american imperialism, STILL saw one of the highest rates of strikes and union activity in the country's history.
It assumes that the distribution of spoils wrought by unequal exchange is enough to buy people off - but the political instability here over the past 15 years have shown that, at minimum, if it ever was enough, then it's certainly breaking down
>>2368682>>2368686 (me)
>So long as Trump promises to put illegal immigrants in gator alcatraz and lock up communists it's "worth it" to do the bidding of the Zionists. Americans have the most incomprehensible politics because they are so easily able to turn off their brains when election time comes around. See, you're not wrong that people's brains are fried but also, you're confusing two issues here, domestic and foreign.
The DOMESTIC situation is absolutely as fucked up as you describe, the sentiment towards foreign policy on the other hand is quite different.
And to be honest, what you're saying undercuts your own argument - you're admitting that a lot of Americans have incoherent politics, but assuming clarity on issues re: imperialism. I don't see the logic here.
>>2368689>execute them allactually a lot of them were dechudded
they will be forced to EAD DA SALAD and read books
>>2368680What "spoils" did we even get from Afghanistan? Fresh opium? Cuz last I checked you could grow that shit anywhere. What did invading Iraq materially provide the average American with that it didn't have, other than embarrassing displays of patriotism like "freedom fries"? All this crap about treats and unequal exchange falls flat when you actually think about it for more than a minute because Americans would actually significantly benefit from their empire NOT waging these pointless wars. Life here is empty and hollow for the average American as it is, having their tax dollars go towards foreign quagmires instead of taking care of their sick and elderly even moreso.
>>2368684I'm no Nostrodamus or anything but unless they get banned outright and driven underground the DSA is poised to become the dominant platform of the "revolutionary left" to advocate for revolution, regardless of the reformist tendencies of the leadership and some of the rank and file. That said we shouldn't put all of our eggs in one basket
>>2368696>That said we shouldn't put all of our eggs in one basketI never said that, at least at this stage. I always saw the DSA as more of a movement than a party, even after its leadership became more genuinely marxist.
Ironically this is the exact same problems Lenin had to deal with when the RSDLR was exiled and held its proposal votes in London and Belgium. I think the DSA is something beyond a SocDem pressure group. We can work with the DSA.
>>2368659people in government are such parasites. they spend most of the year on vacation and have good salaries and benefits and basically exist to give tax cuts to CEOs and take donations from AIPAC
but they wanna take shots at NEETs who barely exist and pretend those are the guys on medicaid instead of some random grandma
>>2368711> cut all social services?its simple. They want the excess labor to die off.
The bourg is inhuman
>>2368686Have you not been paying attention to the post-election seethe of Democrats? They're still in their arc of wishing harm on Gazans to spite Bernie Bros and Arab Americans for not voting for Harris. The "a little war, as a treat" thing is absolutely true. Every 2-4 years the entire political system goes back to "Vote Blue/Red no matter who!" and all nuance goes out the window, anyone with principles is branded a traitor.
>>2368693>And to be honest, what you're saying undercuts your own argument - you're admitting that a lot of Americans have incoherent politics, but assuming clarity on issues re: imperialism. I don't see the logic here.The logic is Americans are aware their system is broken, aware that their country causes massive harm to the world, aware that their lifestyle is unsustainable, but their solution is just to continue doing all those things without any resistance or introspection. It comes off like all their "concern" is just totally fake and they're actually happy to reap the benefits of imperialism so long as they're personally doing ok. Only when the orphan murdering machine is turned on them do Americans get outraged to the point of actually doing something. They were happy to continue voting for Harris at the expense of Gazans and would've just written off the inevitable war with Iran as "well Trump would've been worse!" when that's not a real response to your country committing fucking global atrocities. It's so narcissistic that everything in the world is framed from the perspective of a Republican/Democrat pissing contest and EVERY chance they're given an opportunity to change, they suddenly become concerned about tiny details like "well Bernie's tax plan is uh…" as an excuse to continue supporting the existing system while maintaining a clean conscience.
Sorry this is turning into an obnoxious rant but I'm just extremely frustrated as a MENA dude whenever I try talking politics with people irl and it's like their attention span is nonexistent, the mistakes of the past are completely immaterial to the consequences they're facing in the present. Every decision for them exists in a vacuum and anything that happens afterwards is just an unfortunate coincidence. You can tell Americans that Trump will kill Medicaid and they'll STILL vote for him only to be surprised when he kills Medicaid, and then expect you to feel sorry for them. When pressed on why they voted Trump, they'll say "Oh well I thought he'd kill Medicaid for those OTHER people, not me" and you immediately realize a huge percentage of the American adult population are psychopaths.
>>2368801how many people in south sudan live in america
it's obviously just Britains dogshit Rwanda scheme but for America.
>>2368745YES TRUST ME. DO THESE LOOK LIKE THE EYES OF SOMEONE WHO STABBED THREE PEOPLE TO DEATH IN LITTLE ROCK? DOES THIS LOOK LIKE THE LAST THING VICTIM JEFF WELCH SAW ON SEPTEMBER 23, 2020.
I AM NOT THE RIVER CITY RIPPER.
YOU ARE SAFE AROUND ME.
YOU CAN LEAVE YOUR DOORE UNLOCKED AT NIGHT.
MAYBE IFTHE POLISE WERE NOT SO INCOMPETENT THEY COULD SOLVE THE HELPFUL CYPHERS THE KILLER LEFT BEHIND AND INNOCENT LAWABIDING CITIZENS LIEK ME CAN GO ABOUT THEIR DAY
>>2368846It's either that or getting bribes from billionaires.
Now the couchfucker wants to make the laws even more lax.
It's all fucked.
>>2368845wait but u gaiz voted 4 it doe xDDDD
they so silly
>>2368837>You have this imagined vision of America where everyone is a millionaire aristocrat with a summer home and robots that pamper them when in reality the majority of people are barely making ends meet and dont have enough savings to cover an emergency hospital visit.Add to this that the vast majority of Americans under 45 cannot afford to buy a house and the few who do can't even afford to maintain them without help from their parents. Like I'm a plumber and almost every millennial customer I've had has had to borrow money from their parents or apply for financing to get basic but necessary plumbing repairs.
Fuck even renting an apartment is becoming a distant dream for a lot of people as evidenced by the growing number of adults having to live at home with their parents.
>>2368865Oh yeah for sure, but there are some who have the means to leave and it hasn't sunk in for them yet how bad things are and how much worse they will get.
>>2368871It will be interesting to see what countries if any offer asylum to Americans when the political repression gets REALLY bad.
>>2368877Anon look at the shit that's happening now, then ask yourself how people would have reacted pre-election if you had told them. They would have called you insane.
It's not fearmongering, it's just happening. We're in it now.
It won't be literally everyone in the same way it wasn't everyone in Nazi Germany. It will just be a lot.
Unique IPs: 98