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/leftypol/ - Leftist Politically Incorrect

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Not reporting is bourgeois


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China is fasbol gang.

No, it is not "red fash".
No, this post isn't claiming it is anti-communist.
No, this thread is not a thorough academic analysis. It is a post to be thought about, not believed.

The Leninist strategy involves using and controlling the existing private economy in a proletariat-controlled transitional state as a means of social and economic reform, creating the conditions needed for a socialist state and hopefully then a communist society.

Whether China's existing economy is "capitalist" or "socialist" or some form of hybrid is a debated topic. It has historically had strong elements of a private economy, with state control of companies growing and now dominant. Many claim that the state is controlled by the proletariat and therefore the state property is public property, thereby making it a partly-socialist economy, or at the very least, departed from a primarily capitalist economy. But however you stand on this discussion, the point is that a capitalist economy has been subsumed by state control into something distinct, socialist or not.

This post asserts that this is not merely "modified capitalism as a pathway to communism", but more specifically "modified fascism as a pathway to communism". And it appears to be viable.

This post is specifically talking about classical Fascism in its original formation, prior to pressure from the squadrismo in 1921, and far prior to pressure from Nazi allies. If you don't understand how the petite-bourgeois militias influenced fascism, or think Nazism is fascist, or think that ᴉuᴉlossnW had any respect for Nazism whatsoever, then you don't have the necessary foundational knowledge to understand this post yet, come back to it after reading a Wikipedia page, at least.

This thesis relies on these core facts:
>the PRC, by its government's own admission, has always been class collaborationist
>the PRC is corporatist
>the PRC has a variety of other fascist tendencies

The PRC is class collaborationist
>Who are the people? At the present stage in China, they are the working class, the peasantry, the urban petite bourgeoisie and the national bourgeoisie. These classes, led by the working class and the Communist Party, unite to form their own state and elect their own government; they enforce their dictatorship over the running dogs of imperialism – the landlord class and bureaucrat-bourgeoisie, as well as the representatives of those classes, the Kuomintang reactionaries and their accomplices – suppress them, allow them only to behave themselves and not to be unruly in word or deed.
Mao Zedong, June 30, 1949, explaining the four classes of China's New Democracy.
https://www.marxists.org/reference/archive/mao/selected-works/volume-4/mswv4_65.htm

The PRC flag has one large start surrounded by four more stars. The CPC official government interpretation of the flag is that the large star represents the CPC and the four smaller stars symbolizing the working class, the peasantry, the urban petite bourgeoisie, and the national bourgeoisie united around them. These four classes, the bourgeoisie being two of them, in collaboration with the proletariat.
I really don't think this point needs any more evidence, the rest is evident. The bourgeoisie are generally subservient to the state, with even the most powerful facing execution and other suppression. The workers are generally subservient to the state, with Maoists and other extreme anticapitalists being imprisoned for meeting or sharing propaganda. The state, more and more, acts as a mediator between the inherent class conflict between these classes, resulting in a relatively stable, progressive and successful market economy, much unlike the bourgeois-dominated failure of Fascist Italy's class struggle suppression, under the false guise of 'collaboration'.

The PRC is corporatist
Surely you already know about trade union suppression (the ACFTU is the country's sole legally mandated trade union) and overwhelming CPC dominance in the National People's Congress (which even has it's own huge military delegation!), but do you know about the Chinese People's Political Consultative Conference? This is effectively how the NPC is advised by industrial representatives divided by corporate groups (not corporations!), who collectively form an overwhelming majority. Ultimately the NPC (and therefore CPC) supervise, direct and determine whether these policies become legislation, this functions as a corporatist subversion of syndicalism.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_current_members_of_CPPCC_by_sector

The PRC has a variety of other fascist tendencies
This is self-evident so they can be listed:
- Antiliberalism
- Nationalism
- Ultranationalism
- Irredentismo
- Centralized autocracy
- Forcible suppression of internal opposition, including communists
While fascism is not a checklist, these are nevertheless relevant. Some tendencies common to historical fascist movements, like militaristic imperialism, strong reactionary social values and anticommunism, are not evident in the PRC; consider it fascism with Chinese characteristics.

What does this mean?
I am not using fascism here with positive or negative implications, simply outlining that its synthesis with the M-L transitional state appears to be an effective method for China to create a stable world power and resist the US. And, through its autocratic structure along with wise choices within the party, appears to have preserved the ideological communist and Marxist core of the party leadership. Powerful bourgeois elements have not been able to dominate the state, especially since the anti-corruption purges (which devastated the CIA's pay-to-win asset promotion technique). Inexperienced and narrow-focused workers have not been able to destabilize the state. President Xi appears to be sincerely communist, in the full lofty "stateless classless society" meaning of that term. And if the PRC's tactic of a fascist transitional state on the path to socialism continues to show itself to be successful at retaining and promoting world communism, I wonder what implications this will have, theoretical and practical, on communist movements worldwide.

Your next line is to make an offended one sentence dogmapost because you took this too literally!
425 posts and 87 image replies omitted.

>>2371754
It is happening. Le chinese working class will be le vanguard of international revolution

>>2371754
>projecting
Okay. Le revolution will happen in le west first then. The western working class will be the vanguard of international revolution

>>2371753
As encouraged by the state itself, you fucking retard

>>2371758
Yeah? Proofs? Show me a speech of a party talking about le strikes of this year

>>2371756
>revolution will happen in le west first
Lmao, uygha. Just take a cursory look at the /USA/ thread we have on this site, and read what our OWN American userbase has to say, and you'll realize how idiotic this proposition/prediction of yours is.

>>2371760
I don't need to.

>>2371761
>le individual posesses conciousness so we should take what individual says at face value

>>2371762
Me neither im just bored

China is communist. It literally is supporting foreign workers movements and is leading the international

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>>2371766
Not only that but it actively builds socialism under a system allows for a supervise growth of market productivity in order to create the material conditions necessary while still maintaining party control so as to not end up with a burgeoise class reappearing.

Which is not the same with the fascist corporatist model which allowed the worker to be subjugated by the bourgeois as long as it served the state’s interest but as to subordinate the petite property owners to the workers.

>>2371766
While they are a part of the international, I would hardly call their position to be a "leading" one. That's not really their style is it? They lead more by example rather than through direct involvement

>But the transformation, either into joint-stock companies, or into state ownership, does not do away with the capitalistic nature of the productive forces. In the joint-stock companies this is obvious. And the modern state, again, is only the organisation that bourgeois society takes on in order to support the general external conditions of the capitalist mode of production against the encroachments as well of the workers as of individual capitalists. The modern state, no matter what its form, is essentially a capitalist machine, the state of the capitalists, the ideal personification of the total national capital. The more it proceeds to the taking over of productive forces, the more does it actually become the national capitalist, the more citizens does it exploit. The workers remain wage-workers — proletarians. The capitalist relation is not done away with. It is rather brought to a head. But, brought to a head, it topples over. State ownership of the productive forces is not the solution of the conflict, but concealed within it are the technical conditions that form the elements of that solution.

>>2371808
>The workers remain wage-workers — proletarians. The capitalist relation is not done away with.
Wrong. This does not apply because there are no capitalists in Communist China.
Wages under the socialist system are fundamentally different from wages under the capitalist system. Under the capitalist system, labor power is a commodity. Wages are incomes for the sale of labor power. They embody the relations between the employer and the employee, between the exploiter and the exploited, existing between the capitalist and the worker. Under the socialist system, workers are masters of the state and the enterprises. Labor power is not a commodity. It cannot be sold to themselves. Wages are no longer a transformation of the value or price of labor power. They are a form of state distribution of personal consumer goods according to the principle of “from each according to his ability, to each according to his labor.”

>>2371766
>>2371774
Why have bourgeoisie and bourgeoisie culture at all is the question. Is it some like marketplace of ideas kind of thing? Is it that people aren't ready to work without the dream of extreme luxury?

>>2371875
Wrong. There no bourgeoisie in Communist China. The exploiting class, as a class, was eliminated by 1982. https://www.marxists.org/subject/china/documents/cpc/history/01.htm

>>2371880
Where does it say that in your link?

>>2371764
i don't "need to post proofs" because CHYNAH is literally winning in every conceivable (economic, geopolitical, etc.) way, you stupid little turd

>>2371808
>Babby anarchist drivel
Biggest Yawn of my Fucking Life Award (BYFLA)

>>2371880
>4) Class struggle no longer constitutes the principal contradiction after the exploiters have been eliminated as classes. However, owing to certain domestic factors and influences from abroad, class struggle will continue to exist within certain limits for a long time to come and may even grow acute under certain conditions. It is necessary to oppose both the view that the scope of class struggle must be enlarged and the view that it has died out. It is imperative to maintain a high level of vigilance and conduct effective struggle against all those who are hostile to socialism and try to sabotage it in the political, economic, ideological and cultural fields and in community life. We must correctly understand that there are diverse social contradictions in Chinese society which do not fall within the scope of class struggle and that methods other than class struggle must be used for their appropriate resolution. Otherwise, social stability and unity will be jeopardized. We must unswervingly unite all forces that can be united with and consolidate and expand the patriotic united front.

So it's saying:
>exploiters have been eliminated as classes.
but
< class struggle will continue to exist within certain limits for a long time to come
Who are the classes that are struggling with each other?

>>2371884
bourgeois forces exist outside of Communist China such as bourgeois naysayers like you who slander Communist China

>>2371884
You are a bad faith actor, a well-poisoner, a paid or unpaid glowie, a less-than-a-comrade, a literal scum, a skank, a nobody.

I don't have to answer your pretence questions, I only have to know that you are my class enemy.

>>2371888
This should become a banner, btw

>Dengists have no choice but to blatantly, aggressively lie, in a move that makes it very clear, to everyone, and themselves, that they know they stand in defense of the indefensible
And here I do proudly say, every last Dengist should have their brains splattered on the wall, and if their families would object, they should be executed as well :)

Anyone that resorts to absurd, and obvious lies, has asserted themselves as a military target, and is now admissible for immediate execution

Never forget, if a communist revolution were to occur, dengist heads would be piled in a town square 🫣

>>2371900
Some of us are doing it ironically you sarcasm blind autist

>>2371900
China (communism) is winning while you (capitalism) is losing. Boo-hoo, bitch

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>>2371875
In China, what we typically call the “bourgeoisie” doesn’t really exist in the classical sense.
They are more or less state-supervised entrepreneurial stratum that:
Operates on a license.
And have no formal power over the state apparatus,unlike the western capitalist countries that actively lobby the government to pass policies that further satisfy their class interest

In short They do not own land (bc it is state or collective-owned and they basically have a limited license of using that urban land for a business or smth for like 30 to 70 years I think ),
Their firms can be regulated, split, or nationalized,
Their wealth can and it is curbed (e.g. under Xi’s “common prosperity” drive),
And they can be purged (e.g. Jack Ma, tech crackdown).

>2371953
>In China, what we typically call the “bourgeoisie” doesn’t really exist in the classical sense.
They are more or less state-supervised entrepreneurial stratum
Good luck trying to explain this simple fact to ameri-burgers, btw

I believe the desire for socialism in China is genuine, I just don't have the optimism 2050 will be the year that socialism is implemented.

>>2371975
Nobody, not even the fucking Sea Sea Pee, believes that 2050 is "le epic communism time," fyi.

>>2371979
nobody said communism
and in the governance of china it said it would be 2049

>>2371975
>I believe the desire for socialism in China is genuine
The vibes

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>>2371975

Communism is the stage of historical development in which the productive forces have reached such a level that class distinctions dissolve, the state becomes obsolete, and society organizes itself through stateless, classless, communal ownership of the means of production

We still have a long road until then, as for the next stage of socialism I doubt we would see it in this century, maybe in the early 22nd century if AI and productive forces have advanced to the point that the market structure becomes obsolete

>>2371994
>I doubt we would see it in this century
What about the basics. Free healthcare, free education including higher education. Most importantly, housing as a right. This is what the Left of the CPC desire. Will Xi deliver?

>>2371975
China is socialist coded tbqhf

>>2371998
Uhm China had that since 1949 onward …. I was referring to them going beyond the present of socialism in the form of market structure

>>2372002
>Uhm China had that since 1949 onward
But it doesn't have it anymore.

>>2369582
Fascism was undoubtedly racist. What is it that you think fascists were doing colonizing Libya, Albania or Abyssinia. They were totally racist and borderline genocidal at moments. OP is whitewashing actual fascism but wants to point at China, kek.

people who think, or want, china to be fascist have no clue what fascism is

>akschually thats not a real fascism

Mucho texto

>>2371900
cool it with the moralism

>>2371735
libs on the site should listen to the CPC when they say they're still in socialist construction lmao

>>2371900
you will never pile any heads anywhere because your leftcom ultra trotskyist bullshit is incapable of starting any movement beyond selling newspapers, meanwhile 'dengist' china is mogging the entire western left with development of the means of production

> Irredentismo

Country that gave up the entirety of outer mongolia is irredentist. Westoid slave morality means anything short letting the imperialists colonize you with no pushback is irredentist hypernationalist authorityism red fash.

>>2371900
never beating the larper allegations

>>2369537

> In this essay I will argue China is fascist by using a definition of fascism that excludes both the Nazis and the Italian Fascists.


The westoid brainpan is predispositioned towards autistic debatebro agonizing over semantics .

> China is actually fascist

>>2369653

> Fascism is the purest form of marxism


Dengist Ultra theory.

You retards realize that "ultras" simply cannot lose here right?

If China really is communist, then we win because we want communism. If China is capitalist pretending to be communist, then we win because we are proven right.

leftcom to dengist pipeline

>>2371808
>This solution can only consist in the practical recognition of the social nature of the modern forces of production, and therefore in the harmonizing with the socialized character of the means of production.
> But, with the taking over by society of the productive forces, the social character of the means of production and of the products will be utilized by the producers with a perfect understanding of its nature, and instead of being a source of disturbance and periodical collapse, will become the most powerful lever of production itself.
>Then the capitalist mode of appropriation, in which the product enslaves first the producer, and then the appropriator, is replaced by the mode of appropriation of the products that is based upon the nature of the modern means of production; upon the one hand, direct social appropriation, as means to the maintenance and extension of production — on the other, direct individual appropriation, as means of subsistence and of enjoyment.
>Whilst the capitalist mode of production more and more completely transforms the great majority of the population into proletarians, it creates the power which, under penalty of its own destruction, is forced to accomplish this revolution. Whilst it forces on more and more of the transformation of the vast means of production, already socialized, into State property, it shows itself the way to accomplishing this revolution. The proletariat seizes political power and turns the means of production into State property.
https://www.marxists.org/archive/marx/works/1880/soc-utop/ch03.htm


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