>Therefore, June 10 (the date of ᴉuᴉlossnW's declaration of war) was for me what you call a great day. But now that Hitler has grown soft, I begin to lose the trust I had placed in the Axis to strangle and pull down the so-called British colossus, that is, the greatest exponent of capitalism. They are afraid of bringing down England, they are afraid because they know that with it, the whole capitalist system will collapse. […] I still hope that Hitler will not renounce the struggle, and will go all the way, to the extreme consequences.
<The great and authentic revolutionaries of the world are two: ᴉuᴉlossnW and Hitler. But ᴉuᴉlossnW's past shows that Il Duce has always been against the plutocracy and against the democracies, which paralyze the life of nations.
>Stalin, allying himself with London and Washington, has betrayed the cause of the proletariat. Moreover, I can say that on this I agree with Il Duce, when he says, as he did in his speech from last November, that if there is a man who desperately wanted the war, who first prepared it and then instigated it, it is the American president. From my point of view, however, I clarify that Roosevelt is nothing but the exponent of supercapitalism that aims at the conquest of a totalitarian imperialism.
Whaddafug, wholesome critical support to Hitler and ᴉuᴉlossnW????
>>2372475Bordiga's imprisionment by the fascists in 1926-1929 (or rather, his release from it) was particularly damaging to his reputation in communist circles, as he was deliberately released to incite rumours, that still circulate today, about a supposed "compromise with fascism". Many of those rumours were falsely backed up by supposed "quotes" by Bordiga published in catholic publications.
After this psyop, Bordiga laid low until nearly the end of the Second World War, when he became active once more in the revolutionary struggle, being part of the Internationalist Communist Party until the end of his life and continuing to provide knowledge to the next generations.
>>2372576consent is assumed negative unless explicitly provided [footnote]. If you don't buy that a person can also state in a last will and testament that they do not consent to their corpse (objectively their personal property) being sexually assaulted after they have "left the building" so to speak.
[footnote] the one exception to this is being conceived/born since a person does not exist before that point>>2372472are you new? this has been discussed so many times before. You didn't even include "long live the butcher"
>>2372602Big Board Diga
Bore ding ding ding ding ding ding digga
>>2372472>>2372477No way people in the 20th century thought "England/US=capitalism". Now the trap is easier cause US is very powerful. But in the 20th century when you had the German Empire, the French Empire, China, Japan Empire,…
Bruh.
>>2372682I wanna send this on r/Ultraleft but reddit is so shit it almost never lets me make an account and its a pain in the ass, then I have to ask the mods of the sub for post approval and they might not even approve it because it goes against rule 4 which is
"Don't be annoying: This includes but is not limited to: Bordiga shitposts, AI posts, overused jokes, and anything else mods decide that we don’t like. Posts will be removed, and if it’s bad enough you’ll be banned."
>>2372693Because we're literally being raided by Leftcoms from Reddit. You can pretty much guess which mod invited them here too.
Daily reminder that Moffin' is Zankaria>>2372698>In other words… read Bordiga.Is this going to be the "Read Sakai" now? Some pseud pushed by terminally-online Redditors and force-memed all over the Internet?
>>2372722>I said in practical termsGood luck getting that from LeftComs.
>>2372722In practical terms its lead to workers being organized through the Internationalist Communist Party and CSAN (Class Action Struggle Network), CSAN being something akin to IWW.
It also lead to factory workers in Italy going on a strike really long ago (picrel).
For now they really are just preparing and waiting, because that's literally what they've been instructed to do in a so called historically unfavorable situation
https://www.marxists.org/archive/bordiga/works/1965/consider.htm to "pass on the flame" and keep the doctrine pure.
They believe that when the time comes, people will run to them for advise because they will have the correct grasp of the situation.
>>2372724They sure argue in a very reddit style that's true
>Good luck getting that from LeftComs.They get very upset when you ask them about practical matters. I think it's funny
>>2372771The ones that denounce all governments as bourgeoisie include Israel, though they really do seem believe proles reside in all nations their expectations are pretty unrealistic.
Zionism is as "inherent" to left communism as Stalin's endorsement of Israel is "inherent" to marxism-leninism.
>>2372782The ICC (the ones who came out with this paper)
>>2372757 also previously rallied behind fighting freemasonry and published texts on UFOs and aliens btw.
>>2372796Ive just also personally encountered it arguing with them online, weird contrarian revulsion around resistance fighters killing the genocidal zionist invaders, framing Palestinian resistance and Zionist colonialism as equivalent, weird islamophobia justified as being anti religion, but really is just always against islam coincidentally and more.
Honestly I'd probably be more forgiving of their position if it wasn't for these encounters
>>2372682This is great because it has several references to it:
The proletarian n word (Bordigga)
Ding ding ding ding ding (Hector from breaking bad reference - he also sits, but in a wheelchair)
Bordiga turning into an armchair (reference to "this is what a real marxist looks like" image) and ( literal dialectical MATERIALISM between man as matter and armchair as matter in metamorphosis)
The Brezhnev thousand yard stare at 0:08
The whole mystery act of "disappearing" can likely be a reference to the time period after he was released from prison and generally went into hiding or laid low until nearly the end of the Second World War where his activities went unknown
There might be more, but this is all the ones I've caught so far.
>>2372840I'm a reformed muslim, that means that I can handpick any part of the Quran I like for aesthetic and claim islam is perfectly compatible with my views.
Allah said weed is halal btw.
>>2372843>tho from looking at those headlines, it's not looking good for them eitherthe actual articles are very agreeable, so i suggest you read them at the very least before forming any opinion on them
>but im talking about my interactions with supposed leftcoms and their tendency to to jump at the defense of israel in a practical senselike i said before, do not base your views on things based on an interaction with an edgy teenager
>>2372851Their purism is that they oppose everything the status quo but that it isn't the time to do anything about it.
Then again, what can be done? The US that is the lifeline of the zionist state won't collapse from protesters and I doubt anyone is organizing armed resistance.
>>2372851Having a Palestine flag in your closet and doing lipservice online won't change anything. If you want to do something you can spend funds on aid to feel better, unless you want to risk your life.
As another poster wrote, nobody here actually "supports" anything.
>>2372916 (Me)
Go to your local Confucius institute, they give free language lessons, books and can help notarize you and even help you move to China, you can make a lot of friends along the way.
If you don't have a local Confucius institute you're either lying or in a bad place and should move.
>>2372695china was semi-feudal semi-colonial
china was very far from being a capitalist country
great Mao Zedong succeeded in defeating feudalism and kickstarting capitalist development
China is the greatest socdem experiment of all time, not the pussy Scandinavian countries
>>2372972oh so moffin' is leftcom
are there known moderators who are ML please? and what about other tendencies?
Im curious to know where the modgods lean
>>2373007just saying shit, nothing to offer you but a bottle of pills labelled "antipsychotics"
>>2373008these people think literally every leftcom poster is apart of some elaborate conspiraicy, we have nothing to offer these schizos but their meds, and to understand they are delusional and battle windmills all day
>>2373036bloodgasm is a gigachad
leftcums sappart ᴉuᴉlossnW
learn the difference
>>2372986Remember faux german is never a good sign.
Except that one game / anime, Steins;Gate.
Are you, a "ultra-gauche" (or whatever you wanna call it, un-real socialisms, as long as we know what is meant), complaining about repetition? Cause it sounds like that's what you are doing. All that I feel like saying to that is: Buddy, my (so-called) alleged frenemy (fellow "commie"), my guy that has left this plane of existence and left us poor people on our own in this reality, invest in a mirror.
>>2372981Well, that's just stupid
>>2372979None (explicitly). I do not know these new guys. Or "new", they probably should take some time out of their super busy sched and try to get some more additions.
Anyway, Wvobbly seems at least tethered to reality. It's not that I like the
guy dude person. But they is the most "dependable" ideologically.
Anti gone, Krates gone. Now most that are left are frankly imbeciles and I say that with very little emotional attachment. If this place dies, it dies.
The rest is most accurately described as just incompetent, regardless of tendency or professed belief or whatever.
Then there is barb who I just assume has fucked off again. Maybe in the next major crisis they turn up again.
I won't even try to get into the moffinzank garbo (welcome back, ᴉuᴉlossnW)
also I left lmoaMy element is throwing Javascript errors
good
What a shit app / program. Always has been, always will be.
>>2372813>>2372849Ok so what do we have here?
First article - Anti-War Protests in Gaza:
>Muh gaza anti hamas protest/the gaza genocide is an "interimperialist conflict". Basically, muh both sides badSecond Article - Workers Have No Country: No to Nationalism, Yes to Class Unity!:
>right off the bat refers to oct 7th as a "raid">Neither Israel nor Hamas>Muh hamas nationalism Third article - There Is No State Solution: Only Class War:
>(talking about oct 7 in the first paragraph) From a Palestinian liberationist perspective, this looked like triumph. But over a thousand civilians were indiscriminately massacred throughout the day>Glazing the PA compradors (they're a better option for "peace")>"The enemy of the Israeli worker is not the Palestinian worker but the Israeli ruling-class.">Israel is not colonialist, plus like who cares about colonialism anyway>we must reject palestinian nationalismFourth article - The Descent from Fantasy to Reality in the "Arab-Israeli Conflict":
>But muh oct 7th tho>muh raversJesus CHRIST dude, I can't believe I actually wasted my time on actually reading this zionist shit, I was completely correct in my initial reading of the headlines and this is exactly the shit Im talking about. How you thought I would find any of this garbage to be "very agreeable" is beyond me. Their platitudes about about how israel is le evil imperialist state, like literally every other state in the world in their mind, does not disguise that the crux of their argument is that Palestinian resistance to their own occupation and ethnic replacement is basically the same thing as zionist settler colonialism.
Idk if you were trying to make left communism look more appealing with this, but if you did, you failed in a miserable way. I respect leftcoms way less now that I read this shit
>>2373579>leftcom.org>site has timed outOh thank Fuck
Left com must mean after the communists have gone, all that is left. Trash people
>>2372475>>2372472Two seconds of googling tells you that he said this to ᴉuᴉlossnW's secret police, as that is literally the source of that quote. It comes from the cop he told it to. This is such a common fact it shows active maliciousness when people quote it, like when people pretend that Nietzsche's Will to Power wasn't just the ravings of his actual Nazi sister who published it. It's common knowledge but people keep putting it out there in an attempt to confuse people without knowledge of the subject.
You social democrats (MLs) can never argue on good faith. Once a freikorp, always a freikorp. Anyone continuing to argue is a moron, and even if you pull the "actually meant it" bullshit, it's in such clear contradiction with his views on international bourgeois conflict and campism that's it's obviously bullshit. You guys can just never be honest, since you're youtuber sycophants like the mods.
>>2373591Here's a fun one for ya
All 4 articles:
<ctrl+f: genocide>1/1>"as the language of politicians stopped just about short on calls for genocide"All 4 articles:
<ctrl+f: hamas>56/56I swear to god man these people
>>2373612>Two seconds of googlingThe op is obviously in bad faith you fucking retard. I'm not going to waste time on it because nothing hinges on bordiga's opinions, shitty or otherwise.
You are actually so fucking stupid.
Shame on OP for the millionth time for not providing the full text that a quote is sourced from. It's not difficult. Nobody's gonna take off points for not providing a proper APA7 citation, we just want any indication of where it comes from.
This quote is from archived interviews between Bordiga and fascist police informants cited in the book
Gli anni amari di Bordiga: Un comunista irriducibile e nemico di Stalin nell'Italia di ᴉuᴉlossnW (
Bordiga's bitter years: An irreducible communist and enemy of Stalin in ᴉuᴉlossnW's Italy). Unfortunately, as far as I know the full original interview isn't publicly available in Italian or English. Hilariously, the easiest-to-find English-language source for this quote is a partial translation of an Italian "left" anti-communist article (
https://libcom.org/forums/history/bordiga-leninist-who-put-his-hopes-axis-27122017). I'll also push back against some others in this thread like
>>2372488 over here.
>"But now that Hitler has grown soft, I begin to lose the trust I had placed in the Axis to strangle and pull down the so-called British colossus, that is, the greatest exponent of capitalism."This rancid re-invention of Second Internationalist substitutions of anti-imperialism for vulgar "anti-hegemonism" and the re-carving of the world by other imperialisms (identical to the modern "theory of the three worlds", "global class war", and "multipolarism") is in essence largely in-line with Bordiga's stances before and after the war. For instance, before the Fascist coup he stated that
>"If the Fascists destroy parliament, we shall be delighted.">>2372695Average ultra theorycel's knowledge of history.
>ChinaChina was a pre-capitalist semi-feudal society in the early 20th century. Outside the treaty ports and especially Shanghai there was not a bourgeoisie and proletariat, the vast majority of the population were peasants and the major exploiting class was an agricultural gentry.
>German Empire, Japanese EmpireLate to industrialize, develop capitalist relations, and unify/engage in imperialism. Easily cast as "proletarian nations" in the way ᴉuᴉlossnW cast Italy. They also both were not democratic and the democracies were almost always cast as uniquely inefficient, morally corrupt and rotten by fascist propaganda. If you look at Nazi writing from 44 and 45, when they admit the war is lost and imagine how the peace will go they always predict the victory of the USSR over the Western democracies and it's because of this, often explicitly. Bordiga was an anti-democracy autist in a distinct way but there is definitely some overlap.
>French EmpireYour only decent point but by the 40s they were already on the same page as London and Washington anyway.
There is less of a stark difference between how the US is perceived today and how the British Empire was perceived even into the early postwar period too. Knowing now that America and Russia won the war for Britain and that the British Empire was going to begin falling apart within a decade it's easy to project that knowledge back onto the people of the time but Britain still had the image and reputation of the world's superpower and looked very imposing and stable. This was the country where capitalism developed and it had a direct territorial empire that covered a quarter of the planet. Fascists and Stalinists were both convinced for different reasons that it was rotten and going to topple over any day but then they thought the same thing about all the "plutocracies" including America.
>>2375630I'm all for shitting on the western leftoid but what do you know about it?
I'd be mighty surprised if you had human contact beyond the strictly necessary and incessant shitposting.
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