/leftypol/ - Leftist Politically Incorrect

>>2476465
>Most of the former French colonies didn't criminalize homosexuality
A society isn‘t homophobic only once it implements anti-gay laws. The culture that France has implemented brought about homophobia and it‘s typical for liberals to believe that laws and rights define the whole of society while neglecting that formal and informal culture produces social dynamics contrary to what has been envisaged. Many Western countries never implemented racial segregation and still they have prevalent racism, no matter what their laws say.

>>2476487
That might be part of it.

>>2476506
>A society isn‘t homophobic only once it implements anti-gay laws.
I agree.

>The culture that France has implemented brought about homophobia
I think that's probably overstated in the case of the Sahel and the French didn't change much. They created some (very weak) state institutions but didn't have as much cultural influence compared to coastal countries like Senegal or Cote d'Ivoire.

At least going by Idrissa. His view is that in the 1960s there were elites in the Sahel with generally progressive views and they tended to orbit around Marxism-Leninism, which combined a critical stance towards their own traditional past with anti-colonialism / national independence. But these tendencies diverged. The critical types became "open society" types, while the national sovereignists reflect a more right-wing phenomenon today as they take an uncritical approach towards their traditional culture (i.e. Modi).

The rule-by-military chiefs is also not an import from French colonialism but the traditional pre-colonial pattern going back to the Songhai Empire where political legitimacy was not based in a bureaucratic civil service (very French!) but warriors, cavalry chiefs, and military aristocracies. This is one reason why coups in the Sahel have been genuinely popular, they are "popular putsches" as popular mass demonstrations are actually the signal for the military to oust whoever is governing these countries. There's an older (precolonial) logic going on here.

>>2476569
>The rule-by-military chiefs is also not an import from French colonialism but the traditional pre-colonial pattern going back to the Songhai Empire where political legitimacy was not based in a bureaucratic civil service (very French!) but warriors, cavalry chiefs, and military aristocracies.
>There's an older (precolonial) logic going on here.
It‘s a basic phenomenon of all non-Western nations who have failed to establish a functioning liberal democracy (not necessarily a fault of their own) that they are susceptible to violent take overs. It‘s not a special trait of the Sahel region as we‘ve seen this on every continent in the past century. Your reasoning is not materialist because it imagines the development of societies to be one of the ideas of a region. It‘s material relations first and then ideas are emergent and subservient to them.

But the takeaway is that these regimes may be anti-imperialist (at least in rhetoric) but in terms of their actual practices they are conservative restorationist projects. Reactionary in comparison to Sankara in the 1980s at any rate. Okay that's whatever / who cares / not my business anyways, but while very anti-French it's not so incompatible with maintaining stable relations with other conservative forces in the world including the U.S. government >>2476242 and U.S. military. Then there's another issue whether such regimes are able (in a structural sense) to reform or transform their states and societies to defeat the jihadi threat. Idrissa is skeptical of that, and they rely more on this mystical soldier-savior ethic, but it's kind of a bamboozle. Maybe it buys them some time but I think people need to be skeptical of people who simply borrow the aesthetics from 20th-century leftists and then declare that what they're doing is progressive (but they don't even really claim that).

Idrissa uses the term "illusion of rupture." The coups present themselves as a break from the past by overthrowing the government, but in reality they reproduce older patterns of rule. Also, BTW, coups and putsches are not a radically new thing in the Sahel. It's part of the normal rhythm of politics in these countries although people (at least in the beginning) think something new is happening. Then it turns out that they're back under the same ol' thing (rule by military chiefs) and that's when the disillusionment and apathy sets in, but too bad / so sad and the paratroopers in charge will put a boot up your ass if you complain about it.

>>2476596
>is that these regimes may be anti-imperialist (at least in rhetoric)
not, it is that they ARE anti imperialist, in practice

>terms of their actual practices they are conservative restorationist projects
culturally maybe (if you consider a return to pre colonial culture conservative, which is debatable), but economically they're definitely progressive, again, in practice

>The coups present themselves as a break from the past by overthrowing the government, but in reality they reproduce older patterns of rule
but they dont? the old pattern of rule was completely intertwined with the neocolonial franceafrique, you simply cant remove it and pretend nothing changed
reducing the sahel changes to "oh they're just soldiers doing coups so its always the same" is just obfuscating what actually happened (a radical departure from the neocolonial model that was in use)

>>2476705
>not, it is that they ARE anti imperialist, in practice
Well they're anti-French, but just saying it with more emphasis doesn't make it more convincing.

>culturally maybe (if you consider a return to pre colonial culture conservative, which is debatable), but economically they're definitely progressive, again, in practice
Again, how? What has really changed? This is something where I think the situation is more understandable because they're at war and large areas of these countries are outside of the control of the government.

>but they dont? the old pattern of rule was completely intertwined with the neocolonial franceafrique, you simply cant remove it and pretend nothing changed … reducing the sahel changes to "oh they're just soldiers doing coups so its always the same" is just obfuscating what actually happened
Of course, they have objective grievances with France, but I don't think it's adequate to just be anti-French, the program these military officers have been putting up is "blindly trust the military." What are the the concrete solutions that they're proposing or implementing? Maybe there are some, but if the grievances are more subjective, then that's a problem. France is gone. But the situation is still going to hell. However, Traore can give a bombastic speech for two hours talking about Western imperialism (while taking money from it at the same time), which is a kind of non-thinking.

>>2401837
gigabased

>>2476415
This may be hard to believe for an extremely arrogant westoid but I promise you random westoid proles have less power than third world military junta leaders no matter how much you identify with the empire

>Ibrahim Traoré
Volodymyr Zelenskyy but African and RF sponsored

>>2477253
Slava burkina 🙏

>>2401837
holy cringe

Soon he will proletarianize the peasantoids

>>2476898
>Well they're anti-French
which is, in practice, anti imperialist, not sure why you need more to be "convinced". They also nationalized some british companies, not only french ones. The US aid was suspended after the sahel coups, but reinstated after some time, prolly because having them straight up hostile rather than simply safeguarding their sovereignty wasnt worth it (they also aid niger despite getting kicked out from their military base there).

>What has really changed
nationalized mining (especially gold), transport and construction companies, started working toward a nuclear power plant (and building regular power plant), built a generic drug plant slashing average medicine price in half. You know, using national resources to build up the country rather than simply sending the raw resources to the west

>but I don't think it's adequate to just be anti-French
national sovereignty is more than just "anti french", even if of course the focus is on them

then again, im not burkinabe or know any, but from where I am, they certainly seem to be better than what was there before

Homophobia matters but it’s a temporary setback, after a few decades of development everyone will eventually adopt something like the Cuban family code

>they dont care about western secular religion? they must be nazis
Why are westoids like this?
>>2477975
this

>>2478063
>They slaughter and imprison proles for arbitrary reasons, they must be Nazis
Sounds about right
>>2477975
>Hey it just takes the proletarian state decades to realize murdering proles for nonsensical reasons is, like, wrong
Why aren’f arguments like this a good reason to just shoot an ML on sight though? Considering you believe waving a red flag is the prerequisite justification for, like, lynching a gay guy

>>2478858
I don't think criminalizing homosexuality is necessary, but you are just being purely idealist here.

>>2478858
Like it or not this was the democratic will of the Burkinabe people

>>2478865
I think you should be hanged for shilling for some nationalist junta criminalizing proletarians for arbitrary reasons and calling yourself a communist
>Free the proletariat except unless of course the military dictatorship decides to toss the degenerate faggots in jail of course
People like you genuinely deserve to see your family taken away to prison camps to finally understand, vile honkie fuck
>>2478878
Democracy should be shot in its fucking cradle, I’m a communist, hang every last democrat

The fact that “genociding proles” is a potential outcome of democracy is enough of a reason to abolish it, die with your family

>Also bourgeois dictatorship + representation = le demos

You should be shot for the crime of liberalism

>>2478969
>I think you should be hanged for shilling
Buddy, you're making some massive assumptions and jumping straight to death threats. I was not "shilling" anything.

>>2479632
you are implying there is a contradiction, you're insane

>>2479637
What contradiction? What are you even talking about? I think you've confused me with some other anon

>>2479639
the contradiction is that you're saying "gay people should not be imprisoned by the state" is incompatible with the society of the country, and that otherwise is "idealist"

>>2479642
I never said that it was incompatible? I said I don't think Burkina Faso should have criminalized homosexuality, but was pointing out that your overly emotional response that was to "shoot an ML on sight" for "slaughtering and imprisoning proles for arbitrary reasons" and implying that somehow makes them nazis, is pure idealism and a vindictive fantasy based on assumptions.

As an aside, there is nothing "ML" about Burkina Faso, and there are many african countries which already had homosexuality criminalized, and yet completely unenforced, so although regrettable in any event, it could be possible this wouldn't even lead to any arbitrary arrests, and is just virtue signalling on behalf of a bonapartist regime.

>>2479643
i am not the original man, he's sort of unhinged but better than many of this site's posters, regardless you are sort of correct, please phrase yourself better, sir.

I've argued that these juntas have an essentially conservative character but that's also why it'll be relatively simple for them to engage in reapproachment with the West (which is now gradually becoming public).

>>2507701
Togo btw seems to be the main conduit between the Sahel states and AFRICOM:
https://www.africom.mil/pressrelease/35659/ace-commander-visits-togo

>>2507623
>post a 2019 article from before aes

>>2507716
the US are just looking for a new military base in the region, and togo isnt part of aes so I dont see how they're the "main conduit"

FYI

>Having undergone a major transformation in recent years, foreign relations in the central Sahel now appear to be entering a new era. On 29 September, The Wall Street Journal claimed the governments of Mali, Burkina Faso, and Niger are experiencing “buyer’s remorse,” after deepening ties with Russia, which has failed to help them curb worsening insecurity, with the US emerging as a viable security partner once again.

>The article was published only two weeks after a report emerged claiming that Washington had recently increased its intelligence sharing with Mali, providing clarity on vague news earlier this summer that the Malian government was seeking to improve its security cooperation with the US.

>As highlighted by these separate reports, Mali is showing the keenest of interest in US security assistance. The provision of training is reportedly the most likely form that additional cooperation would take between the two. However, such a deal would potentially it outsourced to a third country such as Morocco or to a private security outfit such as Vectus Global, led by Erik Prince, whose former company Blackwater played a central yet highly contentious role in US’ war efforts in Iraq.

>And it appears that Niger is also seeking to warm ties with the US, with reports surfacing that the US commander of the Special Operations Command for Africa paid a visit to Niamey on 24 September. Although few details about the visit have been disclosed, the choice of envoy and a US statement that it “looks forward to working with Niger to continue advancing shared security” offers some telling clues as to the point of discussion.

>Burkina Faso seems unlikely to follow the path of its neighbours, at least publicly, as leader Ibrahim Traore stated on Sunday that “if you let your forces be trained by other powers, they put what they want into their heads.” Regardless of whether Burkina Faso follows its neighbours’ suit, it seems the mood is shifting in the Sahel. While some in the West may be quick to label this a Russian failure, Moscow is likely to remain an influential force, raising the prospect of interesting mixture of actors potentially working alongside each other in the region.
https://theafricainsight.substack.com/p/the-sub-saharan-security-review-c63

He is a positive influence on the world and has done great things for his country. Im critical of his LGBT ban and I think it’s stupid to defend that but other than that he is mostly a positive force

leftypol is pro imperalism now

>>2516945
epic handshake meme

>>2401791

People who are in the know also are pretty skeptical. And by that I mean a lot of the top/significant figures who were involved in the long justice for Thomas Sankara campaign.

Basically they don't see enough in terms of a move to purge the Compaoré remnant in government, tackle the various financial interests, and start a proper centralized development program.


Its recognized however at the same time that Traoré does have good excuses: The war in combination with a negative correlation forces (including what is mentioned above). So much of political strategy is maneuver wherein one tries to strengthen their own relative position by weakening opponents.

>>2517817

*the various financial-business-tribal nexus interests.

>>2401837
based

>>2401787
why are they calling him tomatouygha

>>2521918
because they are racists

>>2475400
2025… I am forgotten

>>2521918
Glorious peoples tomato factory.

>>2458379
The Zionist entity is 100% a liberal state. Accept it

>>2458379
So the ultimate result of your policy would be that a few thousand gays are sent to Europe AKA ethnically cleansed from their homeland to make lebensraum for Israel while everyone else dies. But I suppose in 30 years Israel will "repent" for everything they've done and invite those surviving gays back to receive an apology from the president of Israel, since they no longer need to be militant supremacists and can start repairing their PR after they've fully cleansed and annexed Gaza and the West Bank and whatever other land they want, so that makes it all better.

>>2401787
Mostly just seems to defend national bourgeois interests but that is honestly a progressive cause in post-colonial countries like Bukina Faso. No need to hate him no need to glaze him. Critical support n allathat.

>>2401787
Russian simp + anti-LGBT oppressor. We shouldn't make excuses for someone just because they throw around a few terms that they openly oppose in the policies they implement.

>>2527528
fuckoff dumbfuck lib

Can there be progressive national struggles after the dissolution of the colonial system and the counter-revolution in the USSR?

An easy answer would be to simply point out thte palestian struggle. However besides the just side of the war from the side of the palestinian resistance
We can point out that the international attitudes towards the Israeli-Palestinian conflict can be classified into four main categories, that have antagonistic intrests that can be assimilited in the intra-imperialist struggles. First, the open supporters of Israel —the US, UK, NATO member states and leading EU powers (France, Germany)— who politically, militarily and economically support the Israeli state, the Euro-Atlantic axis. Second, the powerful capitalist states of the emerging Eurasian alliance, mainly Russia and China, which maintain a cautious stance, promoting the creation of an independent Palestinian state and a peaceful solution, but aiming to strengthen their own geopolitical and economic interests. Third, regional powers in the Middle East, such as Saudi Arabia, Turkey, Egypt and the United Arab Emirates, which sometimes cooperate and sometimes clash with the US and Israel, selectively supporting the Palestinians when it serves their interests. Saudi Arabia has suspended rapprochement with Israel, Turkey is reconsidering energy projects with Tel Aviv, while Egypt is concerned about refugee flows and the strengthening of Hamas. Finally, states such as Iran, Lebanon (through Hezbollah) and Syria are more directly involved, supporting the Palestinian resistance and maintaining an open conflict with Israel, making a generalized conflagration in the region possible.
It is obvious that the palestinian struggle does mot aim at socialist revolution but the formation of a state in general. That is necessary. However, can we say that it is progressive if the national struggle is not conmected with the social struggle? Can national indipendence even be achieved without socialism?

Imo, the delusions of multipolarism are dangerous.
They are traps against the formation of an independent peoples movement and end up assimilating any resistance against western imperialism in the intrests of the part of the national bourgeoisie that wants to allign with Russia and China. Most importantly, these delusiona conceal the eurasian imperialist camp that is begining to take form.
For example, the kicking out of french imperialism from the sahel zone is progressive but only if it is seen as a step that empowers the masses in independent struggle against imperialism. Is this what is happening there?

The truth is, of course, that behind these coup processes lies not the struggle of the peoples against exploitation, foreign and local, but intra-urban conflicts and frontal clashes of powerful imperialist forces to promote their own monopolies.

Let us give an example: Who can assure us that the coup in Niger has nothing to do with the plan to definitively bury the natural gas pipeline from Nigeria to Algeria, which would necessarily pass through Niger's territory, supplying Europe with Nigerian natural gas?

Nor, of course, is the pure "defense of democracy" behind the opposition to coups. The imperialists' interest is hypocritical and it is characteristic that France, which is now turning its back on democracy in the case of Niger, had no substantial reaction a few years ago to the coup in Chad.

The coups, which are presented as "revolutions" (note: The Greek people also have relevant experience), are carried out by sections of the bourgeois army of these countries, which in some cases rely on the indignation of popular strata both for their living conditions and for the international alliances forged by the prevailing bourgeois political force at each time. Alliances that facilitate the extraction of natural wealth and peoples. However, these coups are based on the capitalist system, while foreign designs are often involved in them. Other times, they are carried out to advance processes and manipulate popular consciousness.

In any case, these developments are not based on large popular, radical, revolutionary movements and organizations. The workers'-communist movement, which is in decline worldwide, is even weaker in Africa. Characteristically, out of the 55 countries in Africa, only 5 (Egypt, Algeria, Swaziland, South Africa, Sudan) have Communist Parties that participate in the International Meetings of Communist Parties. The workers' movement in Africa as a whole is still weak throughout the continent, since the majority of the population (over 60% and in some countries 85%) is still engaged in the agricultural sector, while approximately 15% of the economically active population is reported to work in industry.

We are talking, therefore, about developments that do not aim to liberate workers and other popular strata from capitalist exploitation, but rather about efforts to promote plans of the bourgeoisie (or parts of it) of the specific countries, which aim at their bourgeois modernization, at increasing the role and profits of the capitalists, which bring about upheavals at the level of the local "fireplaces" and their imperialist "patrons".

Through these developments, some imperialist powers emerge weakened, while others become stronger. Thus, for example, according to various estimates, the developments in Niger and the retreat of French interests are not only strengthening the emerging Eurasian imperialist bloc (China - Russia), but also the USA, as was evident from the visit to this country by B. Nuland, US Deputy Secretary of State, who secured from the coup plotters the continued existence of the two American military bases, as well as the US ties with one of the leading military figures of the junta.

On the other does the dissolution of formal colonialism mean the end of national oppression in general? I don't think so. But it is a fact that the bourgeoisie of former colonies seek more and more indipendence from western imperialism and turns towards the eurasian bloc, for its own intrests that cannot be the same as those of the working people. It is a basic marxist truth, that in the era of imperialism the bourgeoisie doesn't have common intrests with the proletariat and needs to be overthrown.

How would you go on to talk about critical support toward the struggles of former colonised peoples against imperialism without becoming a campist?