/leftypol/ - Leftist Politically Incorrect

all these fucking retarded old cold war propagandised pensioners who vote tory or labour every election will be foaming at the mouth for any attack against the evil russians who supposedly want new "soviet union"

>>2437616
the only defence our government has for OFCOM's control over the internet is the labour party calling you a paedo. why dont the government just ban porn outright and make access to social media for people over 18? its very simple and would be a popular policy, instead of these ridiculous half-measures that please no one. that been the recent story though - labour push to the right while still calling right-wingers fascists.

>>2437680
>ban porn outright
>very popular policy
Did you see the Southport riots? There'd a communist revolution so fast we'd have peep shows on every street corner

>>2437746
>Did you see the Southport riots?
What a delusional statement. Brits overall are puritanical and in favour of banning things.

Literally cannot give two shits

Local socialist chapter is fucking hopeless and the ones for the surrounding regions are likely full of cunts who've never read a word of Marx, and if they have they haven't understood a fucking word of him

I'd start hanging a union jack flag out my window if I didn't live with some twat who'd immediately force me to take it down, to do nothing more than rile up the street. British society is a parody of itself, the right are populated by clowns who see their standard (much like the LGBT community) and jump on (like the LGBT community) the most stupid naval gazing and prejudices; the latter being populated by adults with the mentality of children, the former being led by the most two faced shysters and suits that little England in its merry old worth can produce

Any talk of a workers cause is hilarious because the entire issue is riddled with the same divisions that it fails to redress with its position on immigration: there is no united front, the only solution offered are unions that lack the political calibre to draw upon an external political body to lay the basis for real change, and oh, the leader of the newest 'socialist' (social democrat) party is a would-be reformist who stands less of a chance of holding the parliamentary majority than a heavily autistic child does of being able to write their own name.

Clowns, you are all clowns. This is how it feels to live in modern Britain, part of a retinue of retards. History has ceased under the reign of Empire and thus begins that eternal transit of the unsetting sun, the waking dreams turned sleepless nightmare.

You are all clowns

>>2437996
Vesti la giubba you worthless fucking clown

>>2437746
what does communism have to do with public indecency? only capitalist nations have promoted pornography as far as i can see.
>>2437761
>puritanical
indeed. we were once led by arch puritan oliver cromwell. #banchristmas
>>2437983
>reading marx validates one's existence
strange beliefs in this place. i suppose its like any religion though, so i shouldnt be too judgemental. just dont like the hypocrisy.
>workers
we live in a post-industrial society, so a workers' movement has no common idea to it. thats why i would focus more on bourgeois politics for the moment, since this is the spirit of the age. its a time of saving, not spending.

>>2438005
>Why does reading Marx mean anything
>"We live in a post-industrial society"
Clowns, I am surrounded by clowns

>>2438013
thatcher financialised the economy and exported industry abroad. that seems to be the consensus.

>>2438020
The simplification in thought is so hideously cheap and is an encapsulation of the stupidity that forms part of the heart of the self perception of the workers movement

Read Marx, specifically Capital, you fucking clown

>>2438028
what will an 1867 book tell me about 2025 britain? is this just religious reinterpretation, like how christians imagine revelation talking about today?

>>2438048
Hell will be a circus in a hundred years, and heaven its spectators

>>2438057
here is an article about deindustrialisation in the UK
relative british wealth has apparently declined in proportion to its deindustrialisation since 1945.

>>2438079
Deindustrialization doesn't imply a post-industrial society: British society is still centred on the production and consumption of commodities. Nor does financialisation mean that the country has ascended into the ether and lost all tether to the reliance on waged labour.

Why are you morons clowns, why

Equally, now post a migration chart of the last five years against the balance the balance of a sustained net loss on employers wages.

'Post-industrial' is an empty signifier used to reference some inconceivable and total absolute by brain dead morons who imagine that employing Britain in their nationalist rhetoric deploys something beyond themselves.

Read Marx you fucking clown

>>2438082
>deindustrial doesnt imply postindustrial
<but this doesnt even matter because muh wages
you seem conflicted. should have just agreed in the first place that maggie got rid of the factories.
>>2438087
>you are racist if you think industry plays a part in national wealth
>read marx
marx wrote a lot; give me a list of what to look at.

>>2438091
"I haven't understood a fucking thing about waged labour" the post.

You are only opposed to capitalism because that is your lot in life and it is only on the basis of your ideals and not principles.

Here is a SHORT list:
- The Manifesto
- Section 1, The German Ideology
- Chapter 4 and beyond, Capital Volume 1 (begin after the chapter on Commodity Fetishism)

There is a book in /edu/, David Harvey's companion to Capital Vol. 1. Download it and read through on your tablet, then read the first chapter of Limits To Capital. Do not read the rest.

Read the eleven theses after you have done that, then go back and read the introductory chapters to Capital. Then read or reread shit like Mark Fisher (Capitalist Realism), Lenin, whatever you want knock yourself out. Don't subject yourself to Mao or Stalin.

Maybe a week's worth of reading after work, and you will have gained the basis for an insight which will lead you into a world of absolute fascination with the second and third volumes of Capital.

Then relisten to Vesti La Giubba, with a translation of the lyrics and come back and ask me about their arcane secrets and I will lay bare all.

>>2438111
and this will teach me about 2025 britain, which is apparently deindustrialised but not postindustrial?

>>2438113
It'll teach you about 2050 Britain if you want

>>2438113
it'll teach you about a lot of other things too, not just about britain

>>2438114
howso?
>>2438118
well i was advised to read marx after being implied as being a racist for saying that due to britain's deindustrialisation, there is no general concept of labour in the country, so no possibility of a worker's movement thenceforth. i shan't have expected more from marx after this recommendation. what else can i learn about?

>>2438125
Inshallah this is satire

>>2438111
okay so i read what you suggested and i'll post my notes here for you to judge. couldnt find anything about the UK in 2025, or indeed 2050. curious. 🤔 perhaps you have further literature to suggest as a rectification.

communist manifesto:
- history is class struggle
- capitalist struggle is bourgeoisie vs proletariat
- bourgeoisie revolutionise production, and society in turn
- bourgeoisie end social injustice by converting society into a market; breaking up families, national borders, etc.
- bourgeois property is increasingly damaged by production, so bourgeoisie destroy productive instruments (such as deindustrialisation).
- the proletariat grows in tandem with the bourgeoisie til they are the majority
- as the proletariat grows, it becomes stronger.
- lumpenproletariat are "social scum".
- proletarian victory is inevitable
- communists are strictly internationalist
- communists are the most advanced advocates for the working class
- "Communists may be summed up in the single sentence: Abolition of private property."
- "The abolition of bourgeois individuality, bourgeois independence, and bourgeois freedom is undoubtedly aimed at."
- abolition of the family by separation of parents from children and wives from husbands
- abolition of nationhood
- some immediate policies include high taxes, abolition of inheritance, centralisation of banking, communication and transport, free education.
- when the state owns everything, there will no longer be a state, since no one exists outside of it 🤔
- marx criticises different socialisms: reactionary socialism, feudal socialism, clerical socialism, petty-bourgeois socialism, german or true socialism, bourgeois socialism, utopian socialism.
- communists support less radical parties strategically, against the bourgeoisie
- workers of the world unite

german ideology section 1:
- the young hegelian critics are in fact conservative because they only focus on changing consciousness, not reality.
- man is separate from animals by creating his own environment, which also begins to create him
- division of labour leads to class society by the assortment of different properties
- german philosophers move from the mind to matter, while marx does the opposite
- science replaces speculative philosophy
- we end with conscious, we dont begin with it
- the individual is a social product, so he is most enlivened when most open
- alienation only ceases when there is a revolution or when productive forces increase to such an extent. history tends toward both being inevitable and so communism will not be local, but will be global or "world-historical".

capital vol 1 chapter 1:
- a commodity has a use-value (quality) and exchange-value (quantity).
- in production there is concrete and abstract labour. concrete labour produces use-values, abstract labour (SNLT) produces exchange-value as an immaterial social substance.
- value is only achieved in an exchange relation between two commodities, where one acts as the material form and the other as the value form. there are 4 value forms, with the final one being money.
- the fetishism of commodities is a relation by which man becomes a means to an end of realising value, and so man is objectified by an inhuman subjectivity, which is an alienating form of worship, like the fetishism of idols.

capital vol 1 chapter 2:
- exchange is only possible where commodities entail the relation by which a use value is traded for an exchange value
- the value of money is inherent as a social relation between commodities

capital vol 1 chapter 3:
money as a commodity serves as the measure of value
- the form of money is different for whether it is traded domestically or internationally; coin domestically and bullion internationally.
- the relations of money entail a circuit of metamorphoses: C-M-C and M-C-M

capital vol 1 chapter 4:
- capital begins in the circulation of commodities, as moneyed wealth.
- M-C-M is buying in order to sell, which would be useless without profits, so all activities of this sort produce a profit, which creates capital via surplus value: M-C-M'. the person who gains a surplus from this form of sale is a capitalist. to create capital therefore, money must circulate so as to expand value.

capital vol 1 chapter 5:
- capital cannot be produced by circulation alone, yet also not apart from circulation either

capital vol 1 chapter 6:
- the commodity which is bought for its product to be sold thereafter is labour-power (the capacity to perform labour). the capitalist then sells surplus value by a relation of M-C-M' while the worker only sells in order to consume an equivalent value in wages: C-M-C.
- the use-value is productively consumed by the capitalist in production, which transfers surplus value
- exchange is the realm of man's freedom, yet man is enslaved by production.

capital vol 1 chapter 7:
surplus is realised by labour-power's use-value extending beyond its exchange-value

you never specified how far into capital vol 1 i should go, so ill see if this is necessary by your judgement.

limits to capital chapter 1:
- marx establishes a triad between use-value, exchange-value and value and never considers any without another.
- marx is said to be incorrect by harvey (pg. 4) due to there apparently not being a proportion between embodied values and their exchange values with other commodities.
- use-values are a commodity's materiality
- the use-value of a commodity is integral to marx's material analysis
- social use values are necessary
- exchange values are achieved by finding equivalence in the money commodity (the ultimate value form), with its use-value also acting as its means to become a medium of exchange.
- prices are thenceforth regulated by the quantity and velocity of money
- marx borrows entirely from ricardo, and just qualifies the LTV with "socially necesary"
- marx conceals his meaning in this prefix of "socially necessary" as pertaining to the historical character of value as it pertains to "social use values" (what is socially useless has no value).
- there are commodities with real prices (manufactured goods) and commodities with imaginary prices (land).
- capital is a becoming, not a being
- capital is only actual when operating in circulation. hoarded money is not capital.
- there is no exploitation in the sphere of exchange
- labour is separated from labour-power, since labour is the standard of value while labour-power possesses a value. you cant sell labour, only the products of labour.

Genuine question…
Why do people keep voting for the Tories? I’m a burger and at least the GOP can make the argument of “lol there was no inflation under my rule” (which wasn’t true) but inflation exploded under the Tories and they pretty much fucked up the country for the past 10 years.
It makes no sense to me.

Go get 'em girl.

>>2438243
Yeah mate Marx just borrows from Ricardo and happens to stick on "socially necessary" because he felt like it.

Rather than using ChatGPT to summarise chapter arguments and reading through them, read the books yourself. Read through the eleven theses and explain in your own words what the final thesis means in relation to those preceding it, specifically with thought as sensuous activity.

Then we can begin reviewing what Leoncavallo meant by "sei tu forsei un uom"

>>2438246
>Why do people keep voting for the Tories?
They are old and/or own property which they collect rents from. Those are the only people who vote tory nowadays.

>>2438246
old people like retired colonel blimps who have fond memories of Keenya, Ceylon or Rhodesia for who the tories are the natural party of rule and they also probably have a good few investments in defence comapnies

>>2438276
>Yeah mate Marx just borrows from Ricardo and happens to stick on "socially necessary" because he felt like it.
?
i am quoting from harvey directly (pgs. 14-15):
>The argument is almost identical to that laid out in Ricardo’s Principles of Political Economy and Taxation. Marx appears to follow Ricardo entirely in treating the problem of value, at this stage, as one of finding an appropriate standard of value.
>The invocation of social necessity should alert us. It contains the seeds for Marx’s critique of political economy as well as for his dissection of capitalism.
perhaps you forgot (or did you never actually recall..?)
>theses
he is giving precedence to the practical over the theoretical, as he does in the german ideology.

>>2438295
>Almost identical
You're quoting Harvey verbatim but haven't contextualised or understood the argument; the first fact you will be acquainted with is that Marx is writing a critique of bourgeois political economy and that the entire confusion regarding value is a product of the obfuscation of these theorists as they derive value as the product of exchange - hence why Marx's theory of value isn't just an updated version of Ricardo's.

Again, go and actually read these fucking books you clown. Summarising the 11 theses as "practicality over the theoretical" (theoretical is laughable, you haven't understood it) says it all.

Reread the German Ideology, section 1, and contemplate what Marx is actually saying. Then read the chapter on Commodity Fetishism.

How are you supposed to organize deliveroo drivers and zero hour contractors? How are either of those the revolutionary proletariat?

If you want to be a communist, be Chinese, stop being British

>>2438246
Because the press manipulate the news to make it so.
(Although at the moment, they've been manipulating the news to fuck over the Tories and boost Reform.)

Everyone in 2019 knew that Boris Johnson was unfit to be Prime Minister, but they suppressed stories about how bad he was while making up stories about Jeremy Corbyn being the next Hitler.
Once Corbyn was dispatched with and the worst of Covid was over, Johnson was chased out for breaking covid rules (lol) because he thought he'd won the election on his own merits and wouldn't have to bend the knee to the press, so the Tories replaced him with Truss.
Truss was a congenital idiot and wound up vetoed by both the press and the bond markets, at which point she was replaced by Sunak, who broke the exact same rules that had supposedly brought down Johnson, but it was never brought up because the point of getting upset about it was to hurt Johnson, not to enforce rules.
Because they'd now fucked up repeatedly, the press decided to give the Tories a punishment beating and reward Labour for repeatedly bending the knee and adopting right-wing positions, so at the last election they reported very negatively on the Tories and very positively on Labour (They'd mention on podcasts - but not in print - that, for example, Labour clearly had no plan for what to do after winning the election, and that none of them were reporting this because they hoped Labour had a secret plan.)

So despite nobody liking Labour (they got less votes than in 2019!!!) the press convinced Tory voters to stay home or split their votes half Reform half Tory, and Labour won the election by a landslide. A completely manufactured outcome. (Without anybody having to stuff a ballot.)

>>2438532
further, what exactly are the means of production to be seized? but as anon said, the wish to reindustrialise is a racist fantasy - so rock and a hard place, i suppose.
>>2438306
>You're quoting Harvey verbatim but haven't contextualised or understood the argument
here's what i wrote in my notes: >>2438243
>marx borrows entirely from ricardo, and just qualifies the LTV with "socially necesary". marx conceals his meaning in this prefix of "socially necessary" as pertaining to the historical character of value as it pertains to "social use values" (what is socially useless has no value).
what is the disagreement?
>bourgeois political economy and that the entire confusion regarding value is a product of the obfuscation of these theorists as they derive value as the product of exchange
harvey's point is the same; that for a commodity to be valuable, it must be socially useful, i.e. exchangeable. to presume otherwise, he says, is to configure value a priori as a state of matter, rather than a social relation (hence marx's proclomation that value itself is immaterial, and cannot be naturally determined, lest we could physically measure it - yet, as marx says, value itself cannot measure value, due to tautology, so it must enter an exchange relation by a value form). why does it seem that im grasping this better than you when i am just a beginner? 🤔
>Again, go and actually read these fucking books you clown.
i did, which is why you were forced to agree with my citation, after first denying it. more confusion on your part. you seem irrationally embittered, so lash out for no reason, lest you could explain your reason.
>Summarising the 11 theses as "practicality over the theoretical"
yes; that is the meaning of marx's "materialism", hence the point is to change the world, not think about it, since consciousness is only a result, not a genesis. what is your alternative interpretation?
>Reread the German Ideology, section 1, and contemplate what Marx is actually saying
i did, and you have given no criticism of my notes
>commodity fetishism
i did. capital vol 1, chapter 1. its in my notes, again.

>>2437983
>LGBT community
no such thing, you're dumb.

>>2438532
> How are either of those the revolutionary proletariat?
They're proles in the firat place hence they can be organized amd have an inherent interest in the abolition of capitalism
>>2438746
> the wish to reindustrialise is a racist fantasy
They hell you're yapping about

>>2438755
thats what this anon said: >>2438087
>'Post-industrial' is an empty signifier used to reference some inconceivable and total absolute by brain dead morons who imagine that employing Britain in their nationalist rhetoric deploys something beyond themselves.
yet they later admitted that britain is indeed "deindustrialised": >>2438082
>Deindustrialization doesn't imply a post-industrial society
everything they have posted has been wrong, so i was just satirising their ignorance. 🙂

>>2438746
>>2438532
The same way that any delivery driver can be? Its so funny because people were arguing this shit in the mid to late 1800s on exactly the same lines.

>>2438758
Why are you such a clown

>>2438746
You've danced around the main fucking contention, you're just ripping sentences from that post and responding to them without having understood them

Why are you both clowns. Why do I share this fucking thread, nay country, with clowns who just don't bother reading.

Summarising the eleven theses as "practicality over the theoretical" is so laughable. Why don't you fuckers read, the idea that post-industrial is somehow equivalent with deindustrialisation is so moronic; if a speaker distinguishes between them it's because there's a false equivalence in the terminology they wish to point out, not because they wish to play sad little mind games with you.

You are worse than the retard last thread who thought etymology was the substance of all history.

Why are you all clowns, why.

POV: A socialist group in Britain wants you stand for their anthem

>>2438746
The eleventh theses is the culmination of the critique of fucking feuerbach, as a mode of thinking.

IT IS A DIALECTICAL INTERCHANGE, INTERPRETATION IS CHANGE AND VICE VERSA

WHY ARE YOU ALL CLOWNS, WHY. It is so clear to me from just that misapprehension that you haven't understood a fucking word of what's been written.

GO BACK AND READ THE GERMAN IDEOLOGY, SECTION 1, UNTIL IT SINKS IN YOU CLOWN

At least the moron last thread claiming that by defining a word etymologically you expressed the truth could be told to fuck off.

You lot are endemic to the parties you infest. Other party members who have understood Marx have to spend time battling your delusions.

Clowns, Britain is a fucking circus at this point.

>>2438752
The LGBT community of this country are even bigger clowns, who think that waving a pathetically brightly coloured flag somehow signifies the advance of some eternal state of right. They see in their opponents all the misery of their depredation of class and like bulls to the fighter charge seeing red, secure in their primitive ignorance that their own values have the fashionability of this century unlike those those of the conservatives which belong to the last.

Questions of immigration, gender, pay, council services, all of it levelled to the floor of absolute ignorance.

If you want to understand what a clown is, listen to Vesti La Giubba. These acts of what seem like a farcical tragedy are given as common to humanity, that is what "perhaps you are even a man" means, but the extent is to which one can differentiate their role in society and recognise in in it their individuality has been erroded.

"Vesti la giubba" literally means don the robe, i.e. of a clown.

>>2438787
>Clowns, Britain is a fucking circus at this point.
National masochism is still a form of british exceptionalism, comrade.

the only clown i recognize is socdem flag.

>>2438789
That's a lot of words to say you hate transhumanists.

>>2438781
>Why are you such a clown
you are the one who thinks that britain having heavy industry is a racist fantasy propped up by nationalists, despite the industrial revolution beginning in england.
>the main contention
you have presented no such contention, otherwise you would have an intelligible counter-argument instead of this infantile rambling.
>Summarising the eleven theses as "practicality over the theoretical" is so laughable.
you have presented no alternative interpretation, but lets go over it:
https://www.marxists.org/archive/marx/works/1845/theses/
thesis 1:
>In The Essence of Christianity [Das Wesen des Christenthums], he therefore regards the theoretical attitude as the only genuinely human attitude, while practice [Praxis] is conceived and defined only in its dirty-Jewish form of appearance [Erscheinungsform]. Hence he does not grasp the significance of ‘revolutionary’, of ‘PRACTICAL-CRITICAL’, activity.
thesis 2:
>The question whether objective truth can be attributed to human thinking is NOT A QUESTION OF THEORY BUT IS A PRACTICAL QUESTION
thesis 3:
>The coincidence of the changing of circumstances and of human activity or self-change [Selbstveränderung] can be conceived and rationally understood only as REVOLUTIONARY PRACTICE.
thesis 4:
>Thus, for instance, once the EARTHLY FAMILY is discovered to be the secret of the holy family, the former must itself be annihilated [vernichtet] theoretically and PRACTICALLY.
thesis 5:
>Feuerbach, not satisfied with abstract thinking, wants sensuous contemplation [Anschauung]; but he does not conceive SENSUOUS as PRACTICAL, human-sensuous activity.
thesis 6:
>But the essence of man is NO ABSTRACTION inherent in each single individual. In reality, it is the ensemble of the SOCIAL RELATIONS.
thesis 7:
>Feuerbach consequently does not see that the ‘religious sentiment’ is itself a SOCIAL PRODUCT, and that the abstract individual that he analyses belongs in reality to a particular social form.
thesis 8:
>All social life is essentially PRACTICAL.
thesis 9:
>materialism which does NOT comprehend sensuousness as PRACTICAL ACTIVITY, is the contemplation of single individuals and of civil society
thesis 10:
>The standpoint of the old materialism is civil society; the standpoint of the new is HUMAN SOCIETY or social humanity.
thesis 11:
>Philosophers have hitherto only INTERPRETED the world in various ways; the point is to CHANGE it.
to any rational person, the meaning is clear. therefore, only a few options are presented: (1) you are irrational, (2) you are illiterate, (3) you are simply uneducated
>deindustrial is not post-industrial
in both examples, there is a decline of industry, so what is the difference you point to which builds from the original pithy observation?
>etymology
are you the same person who said that theres no such thing as correct spellings for words, whilst using correct spellings?
>>2438786
>INTERPRETATION IS CHANGE
lets read thesis 11:
>Philosophers have hitherto only INTERPRETED the world in various ways; the point is to CHANGE it.
your "interpretation" is that marx is on the side of the young hegelians, despite calling them conservative? this is also in my notes btw: >>2438243
>>2438787
everything you have said has been entirely wrong. perhaps you constantly perceive clowns because you are one of them?

BEHOLD: A BRITON

>>2438805
Aha, I'm arguing with the retard who thought etymology gave expression to natural theories of truth.

You're such a mong, you'll never understand a word of Marx let alone the eleven theses.

You absolute clown

>>2438805
>your "interpretation" is that marx is on the side of the young hegelians

Your reading comprehension is so fucking shocking mate, you live in another world.

>>2438801
You don't need make up to be a 🤡

>>2438815
>>2438817
the young hegelian position (stirner, feuerbach, etc.) is that "interpretation is change", since consciousness is primary. marx's point is the opposite, that consciousness is simply a result of social forces, and so the theoretical is really just the practical. we begin with activity and end in thinking the activity.

you are reversing marx into taking the conservative position by misinterprering his theses. but if not, tell me how.

I don't care what Marx thought. I'm sloppy in crediting intellectual ideas whenever I make use of them because the thing that matters is that they work. One of the worst things about "the left" is the cult of citation. A thousand little frustrated academics bitching about your footnotes being in chicago style without page numbers. Fuck off. True things can be restated on their own without jerking off about who said them. (Often it's better not to tell - lots of true things were said by truly horrible people. Why footnote a Nazi jurist on the friend-enemy distinction when you can just not say who made it?)

>Ohhh, but this would run contrary to Marx because on page 1848 of his rap collab with Yung Hegel Marx said…
DON'T CARE.

>>2438834
talking to yourself?

>>2438831
How are you so thick, again you've oblated two propositions and ended with a nonsensical conclusion.

Interpretation is a metonym for those bodies of social consciousness that posit knowledge I.e. philosophy; knowledge as a direct product of social consciousness, being practical activity, is hence subject to change as (fuck me, am I about to paraphrase The German Ideology) man must constantly reproduce their means of subsistence, and thus posit their mode of life through its interchange.

Oh but fuck me my silly little friend, wouldn't that mean that the observe is true: that systems of knowledge, rather than taken in abstraction that a certain someone in this thread (you, you autistic cretin) are wont to do, are themselves constituent of the process of change.

BUT FUCK ME, HANG ON YOU STUPID FUCKING CLOWN wouldn't that mean that Marx was posting a dialectical synthesis to materialism proper?

But wasn't Marx himself a young Hegelian at one point?!!!

But doesn't that make the eleven theses a critique?!!!

But doesn't that mean that Marx's system of critique is an exposition and elaboration of contradictions immanent in thought (as sensuous activity!)

But hang on, didn't David Harvey say this in the FIRST FUCKING CHAPTER OF LIMITS TO CAPITAL AND HIS COMPANION

But hang on, don't you think etymological definitions substantiate natural truths?
But hang on, did you avoid the central point when I showed you that Ricardo still relied on exchange as a way to derive value?
But hang on, didn't you quote Harvey verbatim to me?

But hang on, aren't you a stupid fucking clown who should go and read The German Ideology, Section 1, again, and try to work your way through your own horseshit ideas?

Uh, let's see: Yes, Yes, Yes, Yes, and oh, Yes!

🤡

>>2438843
>interpretation
which marx directly opposes to change:
>Philosophers have hitherto only INTERPRETED the world in various ways; the point is to CHANGE it.
but lets continue.
>knowledge is social consciousness, is subjec to change
yes, by practice, which opposes theory
>thoughts change reality
sounds rather idealist.
>But hang on, did you avoid the central point when I showed you that Ricardo still relied on exchange as a way to derive value?
you never presented anything; and its harvey who says that exchange is necessary for value creation

>>2438846
Then why bother counterposing then you fucking cretin, you clown, you fucking idiot If it's to be read in the Hegelian tradition.

>>2438861
counterposing them*

>>2438861
>>2438862
marx in 1848 is writing directly *against* hegel, wdym? he is criticising the young hegelians *because* they are hegelian, obviously…

>>2438846
>>thoughts change reality
Thought as a social mode of existence is constitutive of reality

READ THR EARLIER THESES YOU FUCKING CLOWN, you've directly quoted them. Why are you so fucking stupid

>>2438866
The theses regard fucking FEUERBACH

Why are you such a fucking clown

>>2438838
To all sides and none, since it's a generic problem.

I mean really:
>>2438843
>>2438846
Don't let me spoil your fun, but you're clearly a thousand miles away from anything of practical relevance. Why not start with Britain today and work back? Maybe explain an ongoing or historical material phenomenon with a theory, perhaps with the added bonus of a prediction of what's going to happen next. You know, explain something. That's always interesting.

If your answer is "because I take philosophy very seriously and this interests me" then sure, fine, have fun. The philosophers have only interpreted philosophy, the point is to philosophize…

>>2438867
>Thought as a social mode of existence is constitutive of reality
so reality doesnt exist until we think about it? this contradicts marx's point in the german ideology that consciousness is a result of material processes, not the root of them.
>>2438872
feuerbach was a young hegelian…
>>2438873
well this whole controversy began when i tried to make an inference upon material reality by pointing at our post-industrial condition, so the young hegelian began to freak out and imply that im a racist for this - now he says that reality is a product of the mind, so his confusion is quite deep, i suppose.

>>2438880
>so reality doesnt exist until we think about it
That isn't what is being said you fucking clown.

>>2438880
>feuerbach was a young hegelian
He was also one of the first materialists, hence the eleven theses are a critique of Feuerbach's materialism

Fuck me why are you so dense

>>2438880
Nobody called you racist you fucking clown, and the fact that you can't differentiate between deindustrialization and what is implied by your train or thought regarding post-industrialism and its subsequent relation to waged labour is symptomatic of just how autistic you are.

I'd rather you argue about etymology so we don't have to wack the weeds that have grown inside your head to get to some semblance or idea of a valid truth

>>2438882
here's what you said:
>Thought as a social mode of existence is constitutive of reality
this can only mean that if society cannot think itself, then it doesnt exist in actuality
>>2438885
feuerbach was still a young hegelian who promoted "abstract" or "contemplative" methods of reasoning, as marx decries. marx wants to move away from this.
>>2438888
>nobody called you racist
"interpret" this for me, if you will: >>2438087
>'Post-industrial' is an empty signifier used to reference some inconceivable and total absolute by brain dead morons who imagine that employing Britain in their nationalist rhetoric deploys something beyond themselves.
also, you havent defined the difference between deindustrial and postindustrial yet.

>>2438890
You are defining reality as an existential category of idealist philosophy.

Why, my silly little clown, are you doing this?
Because you are autistic

>>2438890
Nothing in that post implies that you are racist, and the sentence is missing a few words by which the comparison between you and retards who deploy the word 'Britain' as some reference to some absolute idea is mean to be made.

>>2438890
>also, you havent defined the difference between deindustrial and postindustrial yet.

I have plans for the rest of the year I'm afraid, so I can't help you with that matter

>>2438892
>You are defining reality as an existential category of idealist philosophy.
where? im not the one who said this: >>2438867
>Thought as a social mode of existence is constitutive of reality
>>2438893
>its not implying racism
its implying nationalism. is nationalism racist?
>>2438896
so you cant actually define your own position?

>>2438898
>where?
That is the confusion you have made in interpreting your own response here >>2438890

Why, my precious little clown, can I see inside your silly little mind so? Because you haven't understood a fucking word of Marx.

>so you cant actually define your own position?
Etymologically speaking, I'm not going to take the time to talk to someone who's stuck like a computer in a loop cycling on the fucking theses because they can't synthesise Marx's fucking critique.

Go back to reading Plato, you'll have an easier time of it

please please please read "The rise and fall of the British nation" by David Edgerton
please

>>2438900
so define this statement:
>Thought as a social mode of existence is constitutive of reality
i'll provide my own deduction:
>Thought (as a social mode of existence) is constitutive of reality
>Thought is constitutive of reality
<reality cannot exist without thought
and you still refuse to clarify your disagreement, which makes your position entirely incoherent.

>>2438904
This is such autistic reasoning, fortunately the intelligence services have sent me a recording of your brain waves (which I've taken the liberty of embedding here)

You cannot resolve this conundrum because you are still stuck squarely in an idealist position; reality is here taken in the materialist sense, i.e. as a social mode of existence. If you cannot make sense of this, you have not understood the eleventh theses, hence your entire reading of Marx is founded on a false premise by which you merely make reference to an abstract mode of contemplative thought which can never take itself as a product of its own activity, i.e. as a thing in itself.

>>2438913
>reality is here taken in the materialist sense, i.e. as a social mode of existence.
so reality doesnt exist outside of society and society doesnt exist outside of the mind? therefore, by simple syllogism, reality (social existence) does not exist outside of the mind, according to your account. so "materialism" requires idealism? curious.

>>2438915
Suppose the reverse and you will have synthesised the critique, you stupid fucking clown

Hilarious that you take reality as a category for itself.

21st century Platonism

So anyway, getting back to the post industrial post national economy of this failed gang of 3.5+1 nations wedged into one failing state…

>>2438919
>the reverse
which would be the position i have stated many times:
>>2438243
>german philosophers move from the mind to matter, while marx does the opposite
>>2438746
>yes; that is the meaning of marx's "materialism", hence the point is to change the world, not think about it, since consciousness is only a result, not a genesis.
>>2438831
>the young hegelian position (stirner, feuerbach, etc.) is that "interpretation is change", since consciousness is primary. marx's point is the opposite, that consciousness is simply a result of social forces
>>2438880
>consciousness is a result of material processes, not the root of them.
yet you write the opposite:
>>2438786
> INTERPRETATION IS CHANGE
>>2438867
>Thought as a social mode of existence is constitutive of reality
so you expressly contradict yourself repeatedly.

I see the Basketweavers have logged in today.

Not reading any of the crap in this thread, recently quality had fallen to the point of not being worth engaging with
I'll just assume it's various hitlerites, anti-lgbt activists, social democrats all infighting and throwing meaningless slop at each other
Can only assume this general has been thoroughly captured by 4chan trolls or government agents

>>2438976
we don't have social democrats
we'd be better if we did

Apparently it's normal for Tory MPs, in this case Robert Jenrick, to be attending anti-migrant protests in Epping, where people were holding flags reading "Kill them all, let God sort them out", and standing literally feet away from the leader of violent, murderous neo-Nazi group - Combat 18 (which unlike Palestine Action, isn't a proscribed organisation).

The man in the Hawaiian shirt is Eddy Butler, an open neo-Nazi, ex-BNP, and a co-founder of Combat 18.
He also has ties with theistic Satanic neo-Nazi group O9A (which like C18, also isn't a proscribed terrorist group, despite being responsible for to various murders, rapes, animal abuse, and distributing child pornography).

>>2439001
combat 18 is a honeytrap, same as o9a. david myatt's dad was literally working for the government.

>>2439001
Don't worry it's all a part of Ulsterisation. We will be having Twelfth Parades next year I bet.

>>2436922
if etymology autism anon is right when i say 'Ark at he' to say 'look at them' do you not understand? is this now jiberish?

>>2438976
>I'll just assume it's various hitlerites, anti-lgbt activists, social democrats all infighting and throwing meaningless slop at each other
He says this like socdem poster wasn't the best flagfag we ever had.

>>2439147
The bingo wing to right wing pipeline.

>>2439147
you just know their clothes stink of unwashed cigarette smoke

>>2439001
>Combat 18 (which unlike Palestine Action, isn't a proscribed organisation).
What do you mean?
<On 21 June 2019, the government of Canada added Combat 18 (alongside its affiliate Blood & Honour) to its list of terrorist organisations,[7] which was the first time that a far-right group was added to the list.[8] Members in the UK are barred from joining the UK Prison Service,[9] the armed forces, and police.[10]

owen jones status?

>>2439277
hes right it says its banned in Canada, and Germany.
UK members can't be members of armed forces or the police.
That's not the same as a proscribed terrorist organisation which is what Palestine Action has been designated as.

btw, carl benjamin calls himself a "philosopher" because he got a bachelor's degree in his 40s from an online university course:
https://x.com/Sargon_of_Akkad/status/1760035421583450136?lang=en-GB

>>2433248
Turns out the kid was way more based than we realised.
https://www.dazeddigital.com/life-culture/article/68453/1/calum-free-palestine-bbc-liverpool-a-level-student-gaza-bbc-complicit-tiktok

>>2439277
Combat 18 is for some reason not a prescribed terrorist group in the UK which is obviously what I was referring to.
Didn't know they were banned in Canada and Germany though, which makes it even weirder that they aren't outlawed here.

>>2438532
Why are you not a third worldist? The economy is global, the means of production are not in the west.

>>2439709
>Why are you not a third worldist? The economy is global, the means of production are not in the west.
I am a Third worldist but I am not a Sakaist or CHina idolater,(mao was Zased but DenG was a Arch-Revisionist) we have to rebuild our nations to a third world model not destroy them for the third world

>>2438532

we're not, mass immigration is apart of late stage capitalism where oligarchs work their workers to death or exhaustion and import slaves to replace them, A modern day slave trade were slaves are imported from the third world Bleeding those countries dry of manpower in order to be worked to death or live a life on permanent welfare to boost teh gdp

The government needs to stop children using virtual private networks (VPNs) to bypass age checks on porn sites, the children's commissioner for England has said.

Dame Rachel de Souza told BBC Newsnight it was "absolutely a loophole that needs closing" and called for age verification on VPNs.

VPNs can disguise your location online - allowing you to use the internet as though you are in another country. It means that they can be used to bypass requirements of the Online Safety Act, which mandated platforms with certain adult content to start checking the age of users.

https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/cn438z3ejxyo

A group of Jewish tourists were filmed dismantling a landmark cross on a Welsh hillside and using the stones to create a giant Star of David in its place.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-15017581/Moment-Jewish-holidaymakers-dismantle-hillside-Christian-cross-use-stones-create-giant-Star-David-instead.html

So, i finally signed up for corbyns new party. the form had no authentication as far as i seen and the email does not require even a confirmation link to be pressed.
There's 0% chance i'm sure that the numbers of people who have signed up is correct (they're saying over 800K), you could fire 10000 random email addresses at it and it would be none the wiser, it does not even give the option to unsubscribe and so on. I wouldn't be surprised if it's getting simply hit by bots firing junk at it.
They should stop announcing that number because they're going to be setting up for disappointment.

>>2440400
Fuck off. When I was 15 - and I only had a 56k connection, ffs - I started browsing t'interweb. Soon I got to spicy stuff and I wanked to it. For about three years I was kinda of an outlaw. And I was that just by wanking.
It's the parents' job to check if their minor children browse porn websites, or any other kind of stuff they don't want them to see. If they really care about the children, why have they been cutting benefits, healthcare, school funding and plenty of other shit for decades and why do they keep selling weapons and giving diplomatic cover to a mafia state that is genociding hundreds of thousands of children right now?

>>2440674
You know what would be fun? Throwing those stones at them to give them a taste of Intifadah.

>>2440726
no but if terrorists butchered nazis in warsaw like the jewish terrorists they would be selebrated.

>>2440726
Now this goblin is throwing a hissy fit a day against liberal/"labour" heads of government that just say they are going to recognise Palestine at some point in the future - something that won't stop a single Palestinian from being exterminated now - while, especially in the case of Starmer, a pro-Palestine demonstration saw hundreds of arrests and every day British armament industries keep selling weapons to israHell.

Russia is producing more military equipment than all of NATO combined despite having an economy ostensibly about the size of Italy's.

Britain will lose.

The only tragedy is that it's not the USSR but the Russian federation trouncing NATO.

>>2440674
>daily mail
are the shabbos goys even waking up?

neema parvini: george soros is a counter-elite

Corbyn's 'Your Party' isn't even officially launched yet and they're already appointing subversives to their executive body.

Did the members vote for this? What happened to a party based on democratic principles Mr Corbyn?

>>2440942
no they are saying it was muslim dressing up as jews

Saw a 'Defend English culture' sticker in a Spoons toilet in Wales

Yeah alright mate if you say so

>>2441695
Destroy Spoons, and fascism will disappear

>>2441699
Leave my safe space alone

>>2441613
David Miller is a schizo who was either MKultra'd or is a psyop. Dude goes around calling Leanne Mohammed a zionist.

>>2441613
Looking at his twitter profile, Miller seems like a wrecker.

>>2441613
This is pretty bad. That Schneider guy in particular.

>>2442159
>>2442163
>David Miller is a schizo who was either MKultra'd or is a psyop.
>Miller seems like a wrecker.
He's always seemed pretty sound and pretty on point in the context of palestine solidarity, at least locally where he is pretty involved, and his speeches at events are always on point and not conciliatory to the zionist entity like the PSC lib-zionists are, i respect him.
>Dude goes around calling Leanne Mohammed a zionist.
i don't know anything about her, so maybe she is.

Why did he prioritise persecuting trans people instead of closing the horrendously unpopular and politically toxic asylum hotels? Is he stupid?

>>2442251
1. Yes, he's stupid
2. He's also malicious. The logic, not quite spoken, is that the press really hate trans people and so attacking them shows the press that Labour is pliant and does what it's told. (The real reason Johnson was kicked out is that he thought he won 2019 on his own merits and did a speech telling the press to fuck off, he got too big for his boots)
3. He's done both, in a sense. The salience of immigration and asylum issues has risen in large part because the government itself has chosen to focus on those issues. The big-brain theory is that Keith goes out and talks tough on immigration so that Reform voters become Labour voters - what actually happens, obviously, is that people go "oh, if immigration is the big issue, I'll vote for the fuck-immigrants party" - what a Labour PM should be doing is going out and trying to make healthcare the issue, since when people are worried about Healthcare they go "I'll vote for the healthcare party", which is Labour. (It might not be by 2029.)

My question to you, because I'm a fair sort, is: what would you actually do about the asylum hotels? Be serious. They exist because Labour inherited a Tory fuck up - the Tories didn't build enough places for asylum seekers to live, while processing existing claims painfully slowly. You can build more places, sure, but that's going to take time. You can process claims more quickly, optimistically, but that takes time too. In the mean time, right now, where are you going to put them if not in hotels? The streets?

They're not in hotels because we've decided we need to give them the very best in luxury, they're in hotels because the treasury-brain is penny wise but pound foolish. We skipped investing in building more accommodation (dismal shit like a hut on a disused military base) circa 2018 and now have to throw out a fortune on hotels as a last-minute alternative to roving bands of homeless asylum seekers. They'll close eventually, but in the mean time, what else is there?

>>2440706
It's apparent that the plan has always been making it so that Web 2.0 requires photo ID to use and reverting the internet back to Web 1.0 for everyone else.

Despite their kind of humblebrag of prolific censorship in the light of the Snowden leaks, it's likely that associating IP addresses with user activity is circumstantial and while good enough for a search warrant, is not alone good enough for a conviction, if they want to convict for accessing naughty data then they need far more rigid proof that this or that website was accessed by this or that person, because they provided photo ID and a video of themselves saying some such phrase in order to access it.

Naturally, the naughty data this targets is not in fact CP because that's already a target for the police and NCA who already have their methods for targeting such websites and forums that have almost certainly all retreated to Tor by now and ultimately these new rules will have no impact on them. This is purely about saying
>You're allowed to not like Starmer, you may post online criticising the British Government, but you better be putting a name to that criticism
and the expectation wholly is that most people will not have the bravery to do so.

>>2442251
He was smarter than the rest of the anti Corbyn opposition at identifying the bulk of the Labour membership didn't have ideological loyalty to any of the major factions, but to the "center left" vibe of fighting for ideals of equality on a social democratic basis, and being the "good party".

>>2442286
>prolific censorship
Prolific surveillance*

>>2442251
Because the anti-trans western movement loves brown people and hates trans people i've been telling you this shit for years.
It's a grug reasoning but when you simplify what they say it always comes down to "less white is good, less trans is good, more gay brown bxdies dumped into the country is le good". GOP in the US is the same too.

>>2442318
Most of the UK establishment is anti-brown (especially anti-black) and anti-trans. They're anti-immigration in prejudice and pro-immigration only in administrative practice, which is not as contradictory as it may seem. To be ruling class in the UK basically demands you're at ease with a huge underclass which you regard as basically subhuman.
Remember that the "Equalities and Human Rights Council" (lol) found that Labour is institutionally antisemitic because of a handful of tweets but that the Tories are not institutionally islamophobic despite a string of much worse stuff (a former party chair came out attacking Michael Gove for his islamophobia, and he's an actual minister! Not institutional!!), and that the rights of trans people are always secondary to the rights of normal people not to see transhumanists. That - plus "Lol oops" deporting black citizens - is the UK establishment position.

>>2442318
Wrong, at best they utilise Muslim social conservatism to imply their opinions are a modern pan-ethnic movement and more progressive and inclusive than anyone fighting for the rights of a very small minority as trans people are.

Beyond that performance of circumstantial benefit, they're extremely anti-brown.

Like, JK Rowling is anti-trans ostensibly because she was in an abusive relationship with a man and she hates men to the degree that she thinks being a trans woman is solely for camouflage so they can get access to women's spaces for abuse, but she's obviously going to have a reasoned opinion of traditional Muslim attitudes towards women? Never would she extrapolate readings from the Quran to suggest all brown men are the next greatest threat to women?

>>2442267
>My question to you, because I'm a fair sort, is: what would you actually do about the asylum hotels? Be serious.
>They'll close eventually, but in the mean time, what else is there?
there is only one option: deny all refuge for new asylum seekers while the backlog is sorted out and the immigration points system is reversed. as you say, the tories fucked up, which means hard measures are necessary to counter it. if not, we will run out of space for anyone. the government is even paying private landlords for accomodation, so we've basically already run out of space (32,000+ asylum seekers in hotels).
>>2442346
>subhuman underclass
so you agree that we should reverse this policy? it pleases nobody.

Fucking hell this bird is fit anyone got a name?

>>2442267
>The logic, not quite spoken, is that the press really hate trans people and so attacking them shows the press that Labour is pliant and does what it's told.
Fair point.
>The salience of immigration and asylum issues has risen in large part because the government itself has chosen to focus on those issues
Disagree. I think it's just become too hard to ignore. When immigrants were concentrated in the cities and a handful of constituencies it was a fringe issue. But now immigrants have become much more dispersed and you have these random fucking towns like Bradford and Luton where English are somehow a minority. When normies go to the shops and regularly hear people speaking languages they can't identify (I'm fairly well travelled and even I'm starting to struggle), or see asylum seekers dossing about their town, immigration becomes an everyday issue. The fabric of British society is changing at mach ten speed and people didn't ever get to vote on it so of course they'll be pissed off.
>My question to you, because I'm a fair sort, is: what would you actually do about the asylum hotels? Be serious.
Deport the ones already here and stop accepting anymore. Removing all obstacles to do this wouldn't take more than a few months, it's just a complete lack of political will which prevents it from happening.

Is it bad that now every time I see these "organic" """right-wing""" riots/protests (i.e this flagwank shite going on right now) my first thoughts aren't just "oh they're just idiot racists" like they used to be a few years ago, and now it's just "wow israels really going all out on getting more support for reform/some sort of Tommy Robinson party"?

Like don't get me wrong the majority of the thickos doing all this shite are very clearly mongs in telegram groups that can't spell "our" when they talk about wanting "are country back" but literally all I can think about now is how all these figureheads that are pro-race riots/flagmongery are very clearly on mossads payroll.

Tommy Robinson especially is somehow even more blatant controlled opposition than Farage ever was, can literally cause constant fights and knock people out and all he has to do is fuck off to Spain to avoid being arrested. Then he just comes back and causes more issues while flying israel flags with his spastic posse that didn't even know what Israel was until a few years ago.

I genuinely just see the insane grip Israel has on this country everywhere I look now and it makes me feel like a schizo, my city has massive Palestine protests every weekend but, rather interestingly, we'll also have like, 10 or so people gather outside my local M&S demanding the hostages be returned. And if I dared say to someone in public that M&S is owned entirely by Zionists and they're probably paying those "protesters" to stand outside with a pointless sign i'd probably be looked at like an insane person.

May start messaging aggressively racist British women on twitter to argue with them, purely in an attempt to pick them up

Just need to pick my quarry

>>2443218
>aggressively racist British women on twitter
You misspelled Indian male.

>>2443225
To catfish a catfish

Never doing that again, Tommy Robinson's twitter has some ridiculous AI video of a young girl draping an English flag across a statue of a lion that begins to move. The video ends with young girls walking down a street flanked by four fucking lions and poorly captioned text about something happening on the 13th of September.

The video is some fever dream psychotic fantasy, it's insane these people manage to function and still share this garbage. Worst of all the music is a slowed down section of Holst's Jupiter.

God knows what, psychologically, the English flag represents for these people at this point; probably some universal signifier that defies representation and functions to stabilise their incoherent world views - nationalism and its convictions must appear like magic to these people, some bottomless source of personal profit for their own pathetic creed and deranged petty ambitions.

4chan will refuse to pay daily online safety fines, lawyer tells BBC

A lawyer representing the online message board 4chan says it won't pay a proposed fine by the UK's media regulator as it enforces the Online Safety Act.

According to Preston Byrne, managing partner of law firm Byrne & Storm, Ofcom has provisionally decided to impose a £20,000 fine "with daily penalties thereafter" for as long as the site fails to comply with its request.

"Ofcom's notices create no legal obligations in the United States," he told the BBC, adding he believed the regulator's investigation was part of an "illegal campaign of harassment" against US tech firms.

Ofcom has declined to comment while its investigation continues.

https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/cq68j5g2nr1o

>>2443065
well the bind in the west atm is that you can only be patriotic as long as you are zionist. if you are pro-britain and anti-israel, you will be called a nazi by the left and the right, so its a rock and hard place.
>the left = anti-british + anti-zionist.
<the right = pro-british (middle class) + pro-zionist
it would be nice to have a third option; someone like aaron bastani, who is both pro-british + anti-zionist.

>>2443295
tommy robinson (steven yaxley-lennon) isnt even english, he's irish. and he cares much more about israel than thr UK.

>>2443636
> both pro-british + anti-zionist.
george galloway

Our poor patriots

whole world's gone bloody mad.

>>2443819
lmao, silly cunt.
Context?
>>2443822
it's a spiced up jam sandwich.
i agree though it's obscene to sell this shit for 3 quid. i wait the day until someone pulls the plug out of this island and lets it sink in to the sea.

>>2443824
a bit hyperbolic dont you think?

>>2443819
more martyrs for the cause

>>2443827
sure this isn't a skit? the brown police officer and his looks of disdain sent me.

Why are Saxon progressive and socialists so unwilling to use the English flag? As it is the Cross of St. George is purely used by the right-wing even though it is just a national flag! Most other countries (apart from post settler-colonial states like the U$) don't have this issue where they won't engage with their own nation. This is a big strategic mistake.

Flying the Cross of St. George kills the Union Jack (which is a hate symbol like the Swastika or I$rael flag). The former is the national flag of England, of which there is nothing intrinsically wrong with, and the latter is the flag of the monarchy and empire. It's only because the right wing control the discussion around this stuff that the English flag is conflated with the Union Jack. England is the biggest country in the Union and it is largely the oppressor state, with England gone the empire will fall. So if English socialists want to kill the British Empire all they have to do is start celebrating England!

I think the issue is English communists do not seriously engage with the national question. They make up all these new plans for British federalism that don't actually solve the issue at hand, without ever saying anything good about England in particular. This is because they are all based in London and mentally they do not live in England, they live in the Empire, the centre of the world. This means they end up living in a different world from the normal people. If you want England to ever be a normal country and not a symbol of evil like the U$, it is up to you to make it one.

As a Welsh woman, I ask you to take down your Union JaKKKs, burn them, and put up an England flag instead.

>>2443876
Where are all these socialists flying union jacks? Grow up and fly the red flag faggot.

>>2443876
The proletariat only has one flag…

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cq68j0884y7o.amp

>Be Bri'ish bloke
>Find a qt 3.14 trans chick
>Take her home with you and get a nice blowjob
>several_hours_later.jpg
>Brag about it to your friends
>They all make fun of you and all you gay
<Oh no, my manhood is in danger! Time to jump into action!
>Immediately decide you've been "sexually assaulted" and call the police
>You get anonymity, the trans girl who's mouth you came inside is now being reported by the press as a rapist

Do Britbongs really?

Holy shit it's so tiring how the BBC, ITV, every mainstream news outlet and paper constantly glazes the fuck out of Hitlerites, Reform, that woman who wanted to burn immigrants alive, people who want a flag drawn on the ground or hung from a lamp post every 2 meters
We live in a society of mentally retarded fascists and the state and journalists are doing everything possible to propagandise for them, normalise their worldview
It doesn't matter if we're aware of this, even if a substantial minority is aware of this because what can you do when the majority are room temperature autism score neo-Nazis who eat AI slop rage bait for breakfast?

>>2443893
>"I mean absolutely no disrespect to [Ms Watkin] when I say this, or others who suffer as she does from feeling they are trapped in the wrong body, but we say she is visibly and audibly very obviously male," Ms Lamballe told jurors.
<The man said he felt "sick" and "dirty", adding he felt it had "[taken] away his manhood" and made him "look stupid" in front of his friends
My god. To be a fly on the wall in this courtroom.
fdpd

>>2443893
Trans people and immigrants exist only to be bashed, denied basic human rights, and treated as scary evil villain predator paedos
They are just an easy scapegoat to increase the density of Hitler particles in our society

>>2443890
And that’s the flag of Palestine

>>2443904
The conditions of their being hated are founded on a society that is based on the general and mutual exploitation of others for wealth vis a vis wage slavery.

Solve one and you solve the other; their suffering is not independently worthy of attention nor exemplary for their being somehow second class citizens, but part and parcel of the daily struggle to live within bourgeois society. If you continue to view them as moot factors - that is, simply wickermen waiting to be burnt - then you abstract from their being the products of an antagonism between labour and capital, or rather than of the class struggle.

They do not exist to be bashed; many of the doe hearted who cannot bring themselves to the cusp of denouncing British society for their stake in it (for their mortgages, and cars, and so on - but oh how we must recycle!) lionize the struggle these individuals face, for all the good it does.

View them as people and you might do them the decency by which they are undone as subjects whose existence is specularised under capital for profit.

>>2443920
That's a lot of fancy faux-theoritcal language just to say:
"It doesn't matter if you get bashed for being a [insert slur of choice] - have you considered capitalism bad?
If you end capitalism then you won't get bashed for being a [slur], so you should just not worry about the personal risk to your safety in our current society :)"
I don't think I need to elaborate why that is fucking stupid and the kind of shit only someone who faces no risk of violence or persecution based on their immutable characteristics could write.

>>2443904
is this to imply that asylum seeker paedos dont exist? or that we just shouldnt talk about it? (maybe it should even be illegal to bring it up).

>>2443978
utterly shameless strawman

>>2443983
i was asking a question;
waiting for an answer.

Being a pedo is bad why does nationality have anything to do with it?

>>2443988
talking to yourself?

I’m not dignifying some Seaside Mark looking /pol/yo with the dopamine hit of a (you)

>>2443992
i would be more concerned with the fact that you cant answer yes or or no questions, of which everyone already knows the answer to. pure pride and deceit.

Jews, Freemasons and social democrats have done more damage to this country over the past century than anyone else.

>>2443998
any specific examples?

Mason lodges are literally just boomer drinking spots, you aren’t Italian, there isn’t a conspiracy

>>2443985
You asked me about something that I never implied or alluded to, and I have no obligation to answer any question, particularly those unrelated to what I was discussing.
But of course there are criminal immigrants, there's paedophilic illegal immigrants that exist.
But the vast majority of immigrants aren't criminals, despite what the Daily Heil and GBeebies tells you.
There's also lots of white paedophiles, very wealthy peadophiles, presidential paedophiles even. Funny how none of you rightoids care about that.

>>2444005
>yes
that wasnt hard was it?
>im a far right lunatic for talking about it
im glad that you are open-minded to public concern

Stop giving this dullard (you)s it’s a free dopamine hit for him

>>2444025
you indirectly replying to me at every turn is good enough; shows that i absolutely command your attention, even against your wishes. keep up your protest against an online stranger as he lives rent free in your head, though. and keep denying reality, also.

I can’t wait for Reform to come in and change absolutely nothing just to see you cope and seethe exactly the same way

>>2444038
i am against reform precisely for that reason. nigel farage is a traitorous shithouse; thatcherite scum. i would rather have another 5 years of herr starmer since his cabinet is most marginally effective in all spheres, same way democrats do the dirty work the republicans dream about, in the US. of course, you cant say a lot, but you can say enough.

>>2444038
I'm actually betting on reform being more progressive on trans issues.

>>2442159
>either MKultra'd or is a psyop
David Miller is extremely hostile. (He acts like practically every Jew is a zio, no matter the evidence to the contrary. I think this can be explained by his consumption of mainstream media and the people he interacts with: Older people have a higher zio percentage than younger people, British Jews tend to be more zio than e. g. American Jews.) Anyway, he is not arguing without basis here. I agree it is dubious that one of these guys is married to Starmer's press secretary.

>>2444047
>https://medium.com/@maxshanly/born-for-life-or-marked-for-death-a12d87220e42
Good piece. Nitpick: One participant, one vote ballot. The phrasing "one vote" of course is meant to refer to a ballot, but it can be taken to mean a single mark. This rhetoric is used to ban alternative voting procedures like approval voting.

>>2444216
>(He acts like practically every Jew is a zio
I mean, i can't think of anyone in society really declaring themselves this kind of vague irreligious sense until the corbyn era and the vile middle classes of our country could use it to attack Corbyn's labour (of which they could not attack on it's popular policies) and use it to oppression signal.

>>2443876
Oddly one of the few times I agree with you. The people who fly English flags currently are 99% reprobates and 1% slightly cranky SNP MPs who're demonstrating that they're not anti-English. (and they're not, truthfully.)
'Britain' as a nation is a doomed frankenstein-baby that fell out of an empire. Getting a left-wing head start on English nationalism would be a good idea because otherwise, when it emerges, it's going to be a fucking monster.

For Scotland I don't see too much problem, but for Wales I think this is playing with fire. Disentangling Wales from England will be messy, a good chunk of Wales is an English enclave.

>>2443886
>>2443890
The stated position of a good chunk of UK communist/socialist parties is that Scottish/Welsh nationalism is a whiny particularism, unlike British Unionism which is good and historically progressive. This always devolves into establishment drivel, a mix of attacking the SNP/Plaid using the same lines as Labour, while calling for a super-progressive federal union (just like Gordon Brown*) as a compromise solution. (Naturally, no such super-union is actually on offer)

*and Keir Starmer's staff laugh at the letters they get from Gordon Brown - really, they do. This is published fact. If that's how they treat a former Labour prime minister, how do you think they react when communists "demand" it? lmao.

>>2444266
>a super-progressive federal union (just like Gordon Brown*
The based kind?

>>2443876
Cartoon: Ben Jennings
The two sides of patriotism.

LaboUUUUUUr should just ask for Trump to SLAP the UK with 100% tariffs and they’ll easily win the next election. Worked for the centre-left parties in Brazil, Canada, Mexico, etc.

You just know Farage is going to give billions to Israel and bring in fracking that will cause earthquakes across the north of England

>>2444395
Starmer is already giving billions to Israel and the prospect of bringing back fracking genuinely excites me.

If you want to retain you sanity do not search the Kingdom of Kubala
A bunch of black immigrants, some Ghanaian, some Zimbabwean, some from the US are illegally living in tents in a Scottish forest.
They claim they're all from a lost African tribe and actually Scotland is African tribal lands and African tribes lived there as recently as 400 years ago and also that God promised them that land…
They wear traditional African savannah clothes, animalskins and leaves, do weird voodoo-esque rituals and dances. They're going to freeze to death when winter hits if nothing is done, they clearly have no clue about Scottish winters.
Of course the political right is also jumping on this too to claim black people are all schizophrenic criminals.

>>2444413
>to claim black people are all schizophrenic criminals.
Not all, but a disproportionate amount certainly are.

>>2444413
This is missing further context, I believe this has been going on for a while, it's (yet another) black cult preying on dumb americans, one of the women involved is currently under investigation for child neglect (potentially resulting in one of her children dying), and in total there was only 3 people involved in the cult, the king and his two women concubines.

Now, if this happened prior to tiktok/internet virality they probably would've just barely got a local news station report on them and that's it, but this ended up going viral on tiktok, RIGHT at the perfect time.

So, further context, a black scottish tiktoker did like, a normal tiktok in his car and it ended up getting black amerifat attention because they quite literally didn't know black scottish people existed.

THEN these african americans started saying insane shit like "damn so you guys must be the original natives of scotland huh" with zero proof, then also saying insane anti-african shit like "don't let THOSE AFRICANS pretend they're black-scottish like you guys" because currently african-americans have huge beef with africans (for some reason). They are completely unaware a majority of these black scots are second/first generation people from african families.

Anyway, this shit continues on for a bit, and then the lines cross and these retarded americans start saying that the cult are "THE ORIGINAL SCOTTISH PEOPLE" and now I believe they're going to see more members as a result.

Long story short, majority of this issue can be put down to americans being retarded supremacists even if they're black.

Hardest set of UK rap diss's in a while?

Is it legitimate to perform a citizens arrest on Starmer, Lammy, etc for aiding and funding genocide and crimes against humanity?

>>2444461
There's a fringe belief that Scots are the lost tribe of Israel and it'd be a great crossover if they could agree that the yanks are the original Scots in exchange for the yanks agreeing that they're latecomer Jewish immigrants

>>2444983
>There's a fringe belief that Scots are the lost tribe of Israel and it'd be a great crossover if they could agree that the yanks are the original Scots in exchange for the yanks agreeing that they're latecomer Jewish immigrants
That's the Irish though, ye filthy Sassenach.
https://www.irishcentral.com/roots/history/celts-lost-tribes-israel

Starmer's Britain.

>>2445112
someone should set the transvestigators on her for the bants.

You know the really fucking sad part is that she wouldn't even be our first slag PM

>>2445232
sad? huh? i thought our position was we only wanted slag PM's?

>>2445232
>Flower tattoo on her calf
A TRUE ENGLISH ROSE

I've been putting some thought into it recently and I could definitely see myself getting into swinging at some point in my 40s. That's something to look forward to at least.

>>2445232
Liz Truss?

Even then I'd say she wouldn't have been out first stage PM lmao

>>2445259
Gotta find a partner first who'd be into that though, but yeah, same here amigo

>>2445262
>>2445259
good luck and may your balls one day touch.

>>2445259
>>2445262
Tbh I'm not sure increasing the number of 40-somethings in my sex life is going to improve anything

>>2445261
Yeah Truss.

>>2445262
Not that hard, women tend to be much more open to that kind of thing once they hit middle age. By that point, if you've been together a while, you're both gagging to cheat on eachother anyway.

White Men Should Die For Le Afghani Girl Feminism Even Though They're Piece Of Shit Chuds That Deserves To Be Replaced Anyway
Radfems are mentally ill

>>2445279
She's late, i don't think this is particularly useful anymore.

>>2445284
I wasnt ready to see afghani girl meme feminism in big 2025

>>2445279
Lmao I remember back in 2021 Theresa May was demanding in parliament that we form an "alternative alliance" without the US to keep propping up the Afghan government post-US troop withdrawal. Easily in the top 5 most insane things said by a backbencher in my lifetime, and that's saying something.

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/afghanistan-theresa-may-boris-johnson-b1904502.html

>>2445284
Even the fucking Olympic Comitee was like "imma be real with you girl, nobody want to die for Afghani pussy" last year

I have a pretty crazy idea, maybe Afghan women liberate themselves?

>>2445296
*maybe afghan men liberate afghan women
That's how it has always happenned btw

>>2445301
Good luck to the two or three Afghan Maoists still in Kabul university

>>2445301
Well except for the most famous feminist movement the Suffragettes… and every Communist experiment where it was up to the women to emancipate themselves by taking part… so I'm not sure that it is how it has always happened.

>>2445308
>and every Communist experiment
95% was men fighting for it.
>Suffragettes
Fair enough. But an exception. You don't see women doing terrorism over their rights anywhere else (or since then).

>>2445308
>The suffragettes
Today's feminists should learn from them and start throwing themselves in front of fast moving objects again.

>>2445319
Didn't they recently put their guns down and stop fighting because a man told them to?

retarded declarations entirely bereft of evidence or proof. pure misogynist vibes posting.

Britain is a Hitlerite hellscape

>>2445314
Some of them have started blocking motorways, it's just a matter of time

I can't wait to see Starmer in the Hague

>>2445377
Easiest hit and run in history. Wouldn't lose a wink of sleep.