https://www.wsws.org/en/articles/2025/08/15/dimz-a15.htmlUK Defence Secretary John Healey pledges troops on the ground in Ukraine
>On the morning of the Alaska summit between US President Donald Trump and Russian President Vladimir Putin, Britain’s Defence Secretary John Healey reiterated that the UK was ready to “put boots on the ground” in Ukraine to reinforce a ceasefire […]Let me see your warface, /leftybritpol/
Literally cannot give two shits
Local socialist chapter is fucking hopeless and the ones for the surrounding regions are likely full of cunts who've never read a word of Marx, and if they have they haven't understood a fucking word of him
I'd start hanging a union jack flag out my window if I didn't live with some twat who'd immediately force me to take it down, to do nothing more than rile up the street. British society is a parody of itself, the right are populated by clowns who see their standard (much like the LGBT community) and jump on (like the LGBT community) the most stupid naval gazing and prejudices; the latter being populated by adults with the mentality of children, the former being led by the most two faced shysters and suits that little England in its merry old worth can produce
Any talk of a workers cause is hilarious because the entire issue is riddled with the same divisions that it fails to redress with its position on immigration: there is no united front, the only solution offered are unions that lack the political calibre to draw upon an external political body to lay the basis for real change, and oh, the leader of the newest 'socialist' (social democrat) party is a would-be reformist who stands less of a chance of holding the parliamentary majority than a heavily autistic child does of being able to write their own name.
Clowns, you are all clowns. This is how it feels to live in modern Britain, part of a retinue of retards. History has ceased under the reign of Empire and thus begins that eternal transit of the unsetting sun, the waking dreams turned sleepless nightmare.
You are all clowns
>>2437746what does communism have to do with public indecency? only capitalist nations have promoted pornography as far as i can see.
>>2437761>puritanicalindeed. we were once led by arch puritan oliver cromwell. #banchristmas
>>2437983>reading marx validates one's existencestrange beliefs in this place. i suppose its like any religion though, so i shouldnt be too judgemental. just dont like the hypocrisy.
>workerswe live in a post-industrial society, so a workers' movement has no common idea to it. thats why i would focus more on bourgeois politics for the moment, since this is the spirit of the age. its a time of saving, not spending.
>>2438020The simplification in thought is so hideously cheap and is an encapsulation of the stupidity that forms part of the heart of the self perception of the workers movement
Read Marx, specifically Capital, you fucking clown
>>2438057here is an article about deindustrialisation in the UK
relative british wealth has apparently declined in proportion to its deindustrialisation since 1945.
>>2438079Deindustrialization doesn't imply a post-industrial society: British society is still centred on the production and consumption of commodities. Nor does financialisation mean that the country has ascended into the ether and lost all tether to the reliance on waged labour.
Why are you morons clowns, why
>>2438082>deindustrial doesnt imply postindustrial<but this doesnt even matter because muh wagesyou seem conflicted. should have just agreed in the first place that maggie got rid of the factories.
>>2438087>you are racist if you think industry plays a part in national wealth>read marxmarx wrote a lot; give me a list of what to look at.
>>2438091"I haven't understood a fucking thing about waged labour" the post.
You are only opposed to capitalism because that is your lot in life and it is only on the basis of your ideals and not principles.
Here is a SHORT list:
- The Manifesto
- Section 1, The German Ideology
- Chapter 4 and beyond, Capital Volume 1 (begin after the chapter on Commodity Fetishism)
There is a book in /edu/, David Harvey's companion to Capital Vol. 1. Download it and read through on your tablet, then read the first chapter of Limits To Capital. Do not read the rest.
Read the eleven theses after you have done that, then go back and read the introductory chapters to Capital. Then read or reread shit like Mark Fisher (Capitalist Realism), Lenin, whatever you want knock yourself out. Don't subject yourself to Mao or Stalin.
Maybe a week's worth of reading after work, and you will have gained the basis for an insight which will lead you into a world of absolute fascination with the second and third volumes of Capital.
Then relisten to Vesti La Giubba, with a translation of the lyrics and come back and ask me about their arcane secrets and I will lay bare all.
>>2438114howso?
>>2438118well i was advised to read marx after being implied as being a racist for saying that due to britain's deindustrialisation, there is no general concept of labour in the country, so no possibility of a worker's movement thenceforth. i shan't have expected more from marx after this recommendation. what else can i learn about?
>>2438111okay so i read what you suggested and i'll post my notes here for you to judge. couldnt find anything about the UK in 2025, or indeed 2050. curious. 🤔 perhaps you have further literature to suggest as a rectification.
communist manifesto:
- history is class struggle
- capitalist struggle is bourgeoisie vs proletariat
- bourgeoisie revolutionise production, and society in turn
- bourgeoisie end social injustice by converting society into a market; breaking up families, national borders, etc.
- bourgeois property is increasingly damaged by production, so bourgeoisie destroy productive instruments (such as deindustrialisation).
- the proletariat grows in tandem with the bourgeoisie til they are the majority
- as the proletariat grows, it becomes stronger.
- lumpenproletariat are "social scum".
- proletarian victory is inevitable
- communists are strictly internationalist
- communists are the most advanced advocates for the working class
- "Communists may be summed up in the single sentence: Abolition of private property."
- "The abolition of bourgeois individuality, bourgeois independence, and bourgeois freedom is undoubtedly aimed at."
- abolition of the family by separation of parents from children and wives from husbands
- abolition of nationhood
- some immediate policies include high taxes, abolition of inheritance, centralisation of banking, communication and transport, free education.
- when the state owns everything, there will no longer be a state, since no one exists outside of it 🤔
- marx criticises different socialisms: reactionary socialism, feudal socialism, clerical socialism, petty-bourgeois socialism, german or true socialism, bourgeois socialism, utopian socialism.
- communists support less radical parties strategically, against the bourgeoisie
- workers of the world unite
german ideology section 1:
- the young hegelian critics are in fact conservative because they only focus on changing consciousness, not reality.
- man is separate from animals by creating his own environment, which also begins to create him
- division of labour leads to class society by the assortment of different properties
- german philosophers move from the mind to matter, while marx does the opposite
- science replaces speculative philosophy
- we end with conscious, we dont begin with it
- the individual is a social product, so he is most enlivened when most open
- alienation only ceases when there is a revolution or when productive forces increase to such an extent. history tends toward both being inevitable and so communism will not be local, but will be global or "world-historical".
capital vol 1 chapter 1:
- a commodity has a use-value (quality) and exchange-value (quantity).
- in production there is concrete and abstract labour. concrete labour produces use-values, abstract labour (SNLT) produces exchange-value as an immaterial social substance.
- value is only achieved in an exchange relation between two commodities, where one acts as the material form and the other as the value form. there are 4 value forms, with the final one being money.
- the fetishism of commodities is a relation by which man becomes a means to an end of realising value, and so man is objectified by an inhuman subjectivity, which is an alienating form of worship, like the fetishism of idols.
capital vol 1 chapter 2:
- exchange is only possible where commodities entail the relation by which a use value is traded for an exchange value
- the value of money is inherent as a social relation between commodities
capital vol 1 chapter 3:
money as a commodity serves as the measure of value
- the form of money is different for whether it is traded domestically or internationally; coin domestically and bullion internationally.
- the relations of money entail a circuit of metamorphoses: C-M-C and M-C-M
capital vol 1 chapter 4:
- capital begins in the circulation of commodities, as moneyed wealth.
- M-C-M is buying in order to sell, which would be useless without profits, so all activities of this sort produce a profit, which creates capital via surplus value: M-C-M'. the person who gains a surplus from this form of sale is a capitalist. to create capital therefore, money must circulate so as to expand value.
capital vol 1 chapter 5:
- capital cannot be produced by circulation alone, yet also not apart from circulation either
capital vol 1 chapter 6:
- the commodity which is bought for its product to be sold thereafter is labour-power (the capacity to perform labour). the capitalist then sells surplus value by a relation of M-C-M' while the worker only sells in order to consume an equivalent value in wages: C-M-C.
- the use-value is productively consumed by the capitalist in production, which transfers surplus value
- exchange is the realm of man's freedom, yet man is enslaved by production.
capital vol 1 chapter 7:
surplus is realised by labour-power's use-value extending beyond its exchange-value
you never specified how far into capital vol 1 i should go, so ill see if this is necessary by your judgement.
limits to capital chapter 1:
- marx establishes a triad between use-value, exchange-value and value and never considers any without another.
- marx is said to be incorrect by harvey (pg. 4) due to there apparently not being a proportion between embodied values and their exchange values with other commodities.
- use-values are a commodity's materiality
- the use-value of a commodity is integral to marx's material analysis
- social use values are necessary
- exchange values are achieved by finding equivalence in the money commodity (the ultimate value form), with its use-value also acting as its means to become a medium of exchange.
- prices are thenceforth regulated by the quantity and velocity of money
- marx borrows entirely from ricardo, and just qualifies the LTV with "socially necesary"
- marx conceals his meaning in this prefix of "socially necessary" as pertaining to the historical character of value as it pertains to "social use values" (what is socially useless has no value).
- there are commodities with real prices (manufactured goods) and commodities with imaginary prices (land).
- capital is a becoming, not a being
- capital is only actual when operating in circulation. hoarded money is not capital.
- there is no exploitation in the sphere of exchange
- labour is separated from labour-power, since labour is the standard of value while labour-power possesses a value. you cant sell labour, only the products of labour.
>>2438243Yeah mate Marx just borrows from Ricardo and happens to stick on "socially necessary" because he felt like it.
Rather than using ChatGPT to summarise chapter arguments and reading through them, read the books yourself. Read through the eleven theses and explain in your own words what the final thesis means in relation to those preceding it, specifically with thought as sensuous activity.
Then we can begin reviewing what Leoncavallo meant by "sei tu forsei un uom"
>>2438276>Yeah mate Marx just borrows from Ricardo and happens to stick on "socially necessary" because he felt like it.?
i am quoting from harvey directly (pgs. 14-15):
>The argument is almost identical to that laid out in Ricardo’s Principles of Political Economy and Taxation. Marx appears to follow Ricardo entirely in treating the problem of value, at this stage, as one of finding an appropriate standard of value.>The invocation of social necessity should alert us. It contains the seeds for Marx’s critique of political economy as well as for his dissection of capitalism.perhaps you forgot (or did you never actually recall..?)
>theseshe is giving precedence to the practical over the theoretical, as he does in the german ideology.
>>2438295>Almost identicalYou're quoting Harvey verbatim but haven't contextualised or understood the argument; the first fact you will be acquainted with is that Marx is writing a critique of bourgeois political economy and that the entire confusion regarding value is a product of the obfuscation of these theorists as they derive value as the product of exchange - hence why Marx's theory of value isn't just an updated version of Ricardo's.
Again, go and actually read these fucking books you clown. Summarising the 11 theses as "practicality over the theoretical" (theoretical is laughable, you haven't understood it) says it all.
Reread the German Ideology, section 1, and contemplate what Marx is actually saying. Then read the chapter on Commodity Fetishism.
>>2438246Because the press manipulate the news to make it so.
(Although at the moment, they've been manipulating the news to fuck over the Tories and boost Reform.)
Everyone in 2019 knew that Boris Johnson was unfit to be Prime Minister, but they suppressed stories about how bad he was while making up stories about Jeremy Corbyn being the next Hitler.
Once Corbyn was dispatched with and the worst of Covid was over, Johnson was chased out for breaking covid rules (lol) because he thought he'd won the election on his own merits and wouldn't have to bend the knee to the press, so the Tories replaced him with Truss.
Truss was a congenital idiot and wound up vetoed by both the press and the bond markets, at which point she was replaced by Sunak, who broke the exact same rules that had supposedly brought down Johnson, but it was never brought up because the point of getting upset about it was to hurt Johnson, not to enforce rules.
Because they'd now fucked up repeatedly, the press decided to give the Tories a punishment beating and reward Labour for repeatedly bending the knee and adopting right-wing positions, so at the last election they reported very negatively on the Tories and very positively on Labour (They'd mention on podcasts - but not in print - that, for example, Labour clearly had no plan for what to do after winning the election, and that none of them were reporting this because they hoped Labour had a secret plan.)
So despite nobody liking Labour (they got less votes than in 2019!!!) the press convinced Tory voters to stay home or split their votes half Reform half Tory, and Labour won the election by a landslide. A completely manufactured outcome. (Without anybody having to stuff a ballot.)
>>2438532further, what exactly are the means of production to be seized? but as anon said, the wish to reindustrialise is a racist fantasy - so rock and a hard place, i suppose.
>>2438306>You're quoting Harvey verbatim but haven't contextualised or understood the argumenthere's what i wrote in my notes:
>>2438243>marx borrows entirely from ricardo, and just qualifies the LTV with "socially necesary". marx conceals his meaning in this prefix of "socially necessary" as pertaining to the historical character of value as it pertains to "social use values" (what is socially useless has no value).what is the disagreement?
>bourgeois political economy and that the entire confusion regarding value is a product of the obfuscation of these theorists as they derive value as the product of exchangeharvey's point is the same; that for a commodity to be valuable, it must be socially useful, i.e. exchangeable. to presume otherwise, he says, is to configure value a priori as a state of matter, rather than a social relation (hence marx's proclomation that value itself is immaterial, and cannot be naturally determined, lest we could physically measure it - yet, as marx says, value itself cannot measure value, due to tautology, so it must enter an exchange relation by a value form). why does it seem that im grasping this better than you when i am just a beginner? 🤔
>Again, go and actually read these fucking books you clown. i did, which is why you were forced to agree with my citation, after first denying it. more confusion on your part. you seem irrationally embittered, so lash out for no reason, lest you could explain your reason.
>Summarising the 11 theses as "practicality over the theoretical"yes; that is the meaning of marx's "materialism", hence the point is to change the world, not think about it, since consciousness is only a result, not a genesis. what is your alternative interpretation?
>Reread the German Ideology, section 1, and contemplate what Marx is actually sayingi did, and you have given no criticism of my notes
>commodity fetishismi did. capital vol 1, chapter 1. its in my notes, again.
>>2438532> How are either of those the revolutionary proletariat?They're proles in the firat place hence they can be organized amd have an inherent interest in the abolition of capitalism
>>2438746> the wish to reindustrialise is a racist fantasyThey hell you're yapping about
>>2438755thats what this anon said:
>>2438087>'Post-industrial' is an empty signifier used to reference some inconceivable and total absolute by brain dead morons who imagine that employing Britain in their nationalist rhetoric deploys something beyond themselves. yet they later admitted that britain is indeed "deindustrialised":
>>2438082>Deindustrialization doesn't imply a post-industrial societyeverything they have posted has been wrong, so i was just satirising their ignorance. 🙂
>>2438758Why are you such a clown
>>2438746You've danced around the main fucking contention, you're just ripping sentences from that post and responding to them without having understood them
Why are you both clowns. Why do I share this fucking thread, nay country, with clowns who just don't bother reading.
Summarising the eleven theses as "practicality over the theoretical" is so laughable. Why don't you fuckers read, the idea that post-industrial is somehow equivalent with deindustrialisation is so moronic; if a speaker distinguishes between them it's because there's a false equivalence in the terminology they wish to point out, not because they wish to play sad little mind games with you.
You are worse than the retard last thread who thought etymology was the substance of all history.
Why are you all clowns, why.
>>2438746The eleventh theses is the culmination of the critique of fucking feuerbach, as a mode of thinking.
IT IS A DIALECTICAL INTERCHANGE, INTERPRETATION IS CHANGE AND VICE VERSAWHY ARE YOU ALL CLOWNS, WHY. It is so clear to me from just that misapprehension that you haven't understood a fucking word of what's been written.
GO BACK AND READ THE GERMAN IDEOLOGY, SECTION 1, UNTIL IT SINKS IN YOU CLOWN
>>2438752The LGBT community of this country are even bigger clowns, who think that waving a pathetically brightly coloured flag somehow signifies the advance of some eternal state of right. They see in their opponents all the misery of their depredation of class and like bulls to the fighter charge seeing red, secure in their primitive ignorance that their own values have the fashionability of this century unlike those those of the conservatives which belong to the last.
Questions of immigration, gender, pay, council services, all of it levelled to the floor of absolute ignorance.
If you want to understand what a clown is, listen to Vesti La Giubba. These acts of what seem like a farcical tragedy are given as common to humanity, that is what "perhaps you are even a man" means, but the extent is to which one can differentiate their role in society and recognise in in it their individuality has been erroded.
"Vesti la giubba" literally means don the robe, i.e. of a clown.
>>2438781>Why are you such a clownyou are the one who thinks that britain having heavy industry is a racist fantasy propped up by nationalists, despite the industrial revolution beginning in england.
>the main contentionyou have presented no such contention, otherwise you would have an intelligible counter-argument instead of this infantile rambling.
>Summarising the eleven theses as "practicality over the theoretical" is so laughable.you have presented no alternative interpretation, but lets go over it:
https://www.marxists.org/archive/marx/works/1845/theses/thesis 1:
>In The Essence of Christianity [Das Wesen des Christenthums], he therefore regards the theoretical attitude as the only genuinely human attitude, while practice [Praxis] is conceived and defined only in its dirty-Jewish form of appearance [Erscheinungsform]. Hence he does not grasp the significance of ‘revolutionary’, of ‘PRACTICAL-CRITICAL’, activity.thesis 2:
>The question whether objective truth can be attributed to human thinking is NOT A QUESTION OF THEORY BUT IS A PRACTICAL QUESTIONthesis 3:
>The coincidence of the changing of circumstances and of human activity or self-change [Selbstveränderung] can be conceived and rationally understood only as REVOLUTIONARY PRACTICE.thesis 4:
>Thus, for instance, once the EARTHLY FAMILY is discovered to be the secret of the holy family, the former must itself be annihilated [vernichtet] theoretically and PRACTICALLY.thesis 5:
>Feuerbach, not satisfied with abstract thinking, wants sensuous contemplation [Anschauung]; but he does not conceive SENSUOUS as PRACTICAL, human-sensuous activity.thesis 6:
>But the essence of man is NO ABSTRACTION inherent in each single individual. In reality, it is the ensemble of the SOCIAL RELATIONS.thesis 7:
>Feuerbach consequently does not see that the ‘religious sentiment’ is itself a SOCIAL PRODUCT, and that the abstract individual that he analyses belongs in reality to a particular social form.thesis 8:
>All social life is essentially PRACTICAL.thesis 9:
>materialism which does NOT comprehend sensuousness as PRACTICAL ACTIVITY, is the contemplation of single individuals and of civil societythesis 10:
>The standpoint of the old materialism is civil society; the standpoint of the new is HUMAN SOCIETY or social humanity.thesis 11:
>Philosophers have hitherto only INTERPRETED the world in various ways; the point is to CHANGE it.to any rational person, the meaning is clear. therefore, only a few options are presented: (1) you are irrational, (2) you are illiterate, (3) you are simply uneducated
>deindustrial is not post-industrialin both examples, there is a decline of industry, so what is the difference you point to which builds from the original pithy observation?
>etymologyare you the same person who said that theres no such thing as correct spellings for words, whilst using correct spellings?
>>2438786>INTERPRETATION IS CHANGElets read thesis 11:
>Philosophers have hitherto only INTERPRETED the world in various ways; the point is to CHANGE it.your "interpretation" is that marx is on the side of the young hegelians, despite calling them conservative? this is also in my notes btw:
>>2438243>>2438787everything you have said has been entirely wrong. perhaps you constantly perceive clowns because you are one of them?
>>2438805Aha, I'm arguing with the retard who thought etymology gave expression to natural theories of truth.
You're such a mong, you'll never understand a word of Marx let alone the eleven theses.
You absolute clown
>>2438815>>2438817the young hegelian position (stirner, feuerbach, etc.) is that "interpretation is change", since consciousness is primary. marx's point is the opposite, that consciousness is simply a result of social forces, and so the theoretical is really just the practical. we begin with activity and end in thinking the activity.
you are reversing marx into taking the conservative position by misinterprering his theses. but if not, tell me how.
>>2438831How are you so thick, again you've oblated two propositions and ended with a nonsensical conclusion.
Interpretation is a metonym for those bodies of social consciousness that posit knowledge I.e. philosophy; knowledge as a direct product of social consciousness, being practical activity, is hence subject to change as (fuck me, am I about to paraphrase The German Ideology) man must constantly reproduce their means of subsistence, and thus posit their mode of life through its interchange.
Oh but fuck me my silly little friend, wouldn't that mean that the observe is true: that systems of knowledge, rather than taken in abstraction that a certain someone in this thread (you, you autistic cretin) are wont to do, are themselves constituent of the process of change.
BUT FUCK ME, HANG ON YOU STUPID FUCKING CLOWN wouldn't that mean that Marx was posting a dialectical synthesis to materialism proper?
But wasn't Marx himself a young Hegelian at one point?!!!
But doesn't that make the eleven theses a critique?!!!
But doesn't that mean that Marx's system of critique is an exposition and elaboration of contradictions immanent in thought (as sensuous activity!)
But hang on, didn't David Harvey say this in the
FIRST FUCKING CHAPTER OF LIMITS TO CAPITAL AND HIS COMPANIONBut hang on, don't you think etymological definitions substantiate natural truths?
But hang on, did you avoid the central point when I showed you that Ricardo still relied on exchange as a way to derive value?
But hang on, didn't you quote Harvey verbatim to me?
But hang on, aren't you a stupid fucking clown who should go and read The German Ideology, Section 1, again, and try to work your way through your own horseshit ideas?
Uh, let's see: Yes, Yes, Yes, Yes, and oh, Yes!
🤡
>>2438843>interpretationwhich marx directly opposes to change:
>Philosophers have hitherto only INTERPRETED the world in various ways; the point is to CHANGE it.but lets continue.
>knowledge is social consciousness, is subjec to changeyes, by practice, which opposes theory
>thoughts change realitysounds rather idealist.
>But hang on, did you avoid the central point when I showed you that Ricardo still relied on exchange as a way to derive value?you never presented anything; and its harvey who says that exchange is necessary for value creation
>>2438846>>thoughts change realityThought as a social mode of existence is constitutive of reality
READ THR EARLIER THESES YOU FUCKING CLOWN, you've directly quoted them. Why are you so fucking stupid
>>2438866The theses regard fucking FEUERBACH
Why are you such a fucking clown
>>2438838To all sides and none, since it's a generic problem.
I mean really:
>>2438843>>2438846Don't let me spoil your fun, but you're clearly a thousand miles away from anything of practical relevance. Why not start with Britain today and work back? Maybe explain an ongoing or historical material phenomenon with a theory, perhaps with the added bonus of a prediction of what's going to happen next. You know, explain something. That's always interesting.
If your answer is "because I take philosophy very seriously and this interests me" then sure, fine, have fun.
The philosophers have only interpreted philosophy, the point is to philosophize… >>2438867>Thought as a social mode of existence is constitutive of realityso reality doesnt exist until we think about it? this contradicts marx's point in the german ideology that consciousness is a result of material processes, not the root of them.
>>2438872feuerbach was a young hegelian…
>>2438873well this whole controversy began when i tried to make an inference upon material reality by pointing at our post-industrial condition, so the young hegelian began to freak out and imply that im a racist for this - now he says that reality is a product of the mind, so his confusion is quite deep, i suppose.
>>2438880>feuerbach was a young hegelianHe was also one of the first materialists, hence the eleven theses are a critique of Feuerbach's materialism
Fuck me why are you so dense
>>2438880Nobody called you racist you fucking clown, and the fact that you can't differentiate between deindustrialization and what is implied by your train or thought regarding post-industrialism and its subsequent relation to waged labour is symptomatic of just how autistic you are.
I'd rather you argue about etymology so we don't have to wack the weeds that have grown inside your head to get to some semblance or idea of a valid truth
>>2438882here's what you said:
>Thought as a social mode of existence is constitutive of realitythis can only mean that if society cannot think itself, then it doesnt exist in actuality
>>2438885feuerbach was still a young hegelian who promoted "abstract" or "contemplative" methods of reasoning, as marx decries. marx wants to move away from this.
>>2438888>nobody called you racist"interpret" this for me, if you will:
>>2438087>'Post-industrial' is an empty signifier used to reference some inconceivable and total absolute by brain dead morons who imagine that employing Britain in their nationalist rhetoric deploys something beyond themselves.also, you havent defined the difference between deindustrial and postindustrial yet.
>>2438890You are defining reality as an existential category of idealist philosophy.
Why, my silly little clown, are you doing this?
Because you are autistic
>>2438892>You are defining reality as an existential category of idealist philosophy.where? im not the one who said this:
>>2438867>Thought as a social mode of existence is constitutive of reality>>2438893>its not implying racismits implying nationalism. is nationalism racist?
>>2438896so you cant actually define your own position?
>>2438898>where? That is the confusion you have made in interpreting your own response here
>>2438890Why, my precious little clown, can I see inside your silly little mind so? Because you haven't understood a fucking word of Marx.
>so you cant actually define your own position?Etymologically speaking, I'm not going to take the time to talk to someone who's stuck like a computer in a loop cycling on the fucking theses because they can't synthesise Marx's fucking critique.
Go back to reading Plato, you'll have an easier time of it
>>2438900so define this statement:
>Thought as a social mode of existence is constitutive of realityi'll provide my own deduction:
>Thought (as a social mode of existence) is constitutive of reality>Thought is constitutive of reality<reality cannot exist without thoughtand you still refuse to clarify your disagreement, which makes your position entirely incoherent.
>>2438904This is such autistic reasoning, fortunately the intelligence services have sent me a recording of your brain waves (which I've taken the liberty of embedding here)
You cannot resolve this conundrum because you are still stuck squarely in an idealist position; reality is here taken in the materialist sense, i.e. as a social mode of existence. If you cannot make sense of this, you have not understood the eleventh theses, hence your entire reading of Marx is founded on a false premise by which you merely make reference to an abstract mode of contemplative thought which can never take itself as a product of its own activity, i.e. as a thing in itself.
>>2438919>the reversewhich would be the position i have stated many times:
>>2438243>german philosophers move from the mind to matter, while marx does the opposite>>2438746>yes; that is the meaning of marx's "materialism", hence the point is to change the world, not think about it, since consciousness is only a result, not a genesis.>>2438831>the young hegelian position (stirner, feuerbach, etc.) is that "interpretation is change", since consciousness is primary. marx's point is the opposite, that consciousness is simply a result of social forces>>2438880>consciousness is a result of material processes, not the root of them.yet you write the opposite:
>>2438786> INTERPRETATION IS CHANGE >>2438867>Thought as a social mode of existence is constitutive of realityso you expressly contradict yourself repeatedly.
>>2438976we don't have social democrats
we'd be better if we did
Apparently it's normal for Tory MPs, in this case Robert Jenrick, to be attending anti-migrant protests in Epping, where people were holding flags reading "Kill them all, let God sort them out", and standing literally feet away from the leader of violent, murderous neo-Nazi group - Combat 18 (which unlike Palestine Action, isn't a proscribed organisation).
The man in the Hawaiian shirt is Eddy Butler, an open neo-Nazi, ex-BNP, and a co-founder of Combat 18.
He also has ties with theistic Satanic neo-Nazi group O9A (which like C18, also isn't a proscribed terrorist group, despite being responsible for to various murders, rapes, animal abuse, and distributing child pornography).
>>2439277hes right it says its banned in Canada, and Germany.
UK members can't be members of armed forces or the police.
That's not the same as a proscribed terrorist organisation which is what Palestine Action has been designated as.
>>2439277Combat 18 is for some reason not a prescribed terrorist group in the UK which is obviously what I was referring to.
Didn't know they were banned in Canada and Germany though, which makes it even weirder that they aren't outlawed here.
The government needs to stop children using virtual private networks (VPNs) to bypass age checks on porn sites, the children's commissioner for England has said.
Dame Rachel de Souza told BBC Newsnight it was "absolutely a loophole that needs closing" and called for age verification on VPNs.
VPNs can disguise your location online - allowing you to use the internet as though you are in another country. It means that they can be used to bypass requirements of the Online Safety Act, which mandated platforms with certain adult content to start checking the age of users.
https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/cn438z3ejxyo>>2440400Fuck off. When I was 15 - and I only had a 56k connection, ffs - I started browsing t'interweb. Soon I got to spicy stuff and I wanked to it. For about three years I was kinda of an outlaw. And I was that just by wanking.
It's the parents' job to check if their minor children browse porn websites, or any other kind of stuff they don't want them to see. If they really care about the children, why have they been cutting benefits, healthcare, school funding and plenty of other shit for decades and why do they keep selling weapons and giving diplomatic cover to a mafia state that is genociding hundreds of thousands of children right now?
>>2440674You know what would be fun? Throwing those stones at them to give them a taste of Intifadah.
>>2442159>>2442163>David Miller is a schizo who was either MKultra'd or is a psyop.>Miller seems like a wrecker.He's always seemed pretty sound and pretty on point in the context of palestine solidarity, at least locally where he is pretty involved, and his speeches at events are always on point and not conciliatory to the zionist entity like the PSC lib-zionists are, i respect him.
>Dude goes around calling Leanne Mohammed a zionist.i don't know anything about her, so maybe she is.
>>24422511. Yes, he's stupid
2. He's also malicious. The logic, not quite spoken, is that the press really hate trans people and so attacking them shows the press that Labour is pliant and does what it's told. (The real reason Johnson was kicked out is that he thought he won 2019 on his own merits and did a speech telling the press to fuck off, he got too big for his boots)
3. He's done both, in a sense. The salience of immigration and asylum issues has risen in large part because the government itself has chosen to focus on those issues. The big-brain theory is that Keith goes out and talks tough on immigration so that Reform voters become Labour voters - what actually happens, obviously, is that people go "oh, if immigration is the big issue, I'll vote for the fuck-immigrants party" - what a Labour PM should be doing is going out and trying to make healthcare the issue, since when people are worried about Healthcare they go "I'll vote for the healthcare party", which is Labour. (It might not be by 2029.)
My question to you, because I'm a fair sort, is: what would you actually do about the asylum hotels? Be serious. They exist because Labour inherited a Tory fuck up - the Tories didn't build enough places for asylum seekers to live, while processing existing claims painfully slowly. You can build more places, sure, but that's going to take time. You can process claims more quickly, optimistically, but that takes time too. In the mean time, right now, where are you going to put them if not in hotels?
The streets? They're not in hotels because we've decided we need to give them the very best in luxury, they're in hotels because the treasury-brain is penny wise but pound foolish. We skipped investing in building more accommodation (dismal shit like a hut on a disused military base) circa 2018 and now have to throw out a fortune on hotels as a last-minute alternative to roving bands of homeless asylum seekers. They'll close eventually, but in the mean time, what else is there?
>>2440706It's apparent that the plan has always been making it so that Web 2.0 requires photo ID to use and reverting the internet back to Web 1.0 for everyone else.
Despite their kind of humblebrag of prolific censorship in the light of the Snowden leaks, it's likely that associating IP addresses with user activity is circumstantial and while good enough for a search warrant, is not alone good enough for a conviction, if they want to convict for accessing naughty data then they need far more rigid proof that this or that website was accessed by this or that person, because they provided photo ID and a video of themselves saying some such phrase in order to access it.
Naturally, the naughty data this targets is not in fact CP because that's already a target for the police and NCA who already have their methods for targeting such websites and forums that have almost certainly all retreated to Tor by now and ultimately these new rules will have no impact on them. This is purely about saying
>You're allowed to not like Starmer, you may post online criticising the British Government, but you better be putting a name to that criticismand the expectation wholly is that most people will not have the bravery to do so.
>>2442251Because the anti-trans western movement loves brown people and hates trans people i've been telling you this shit for years.
It's a grug reasoning but when you simplify what they say it always comes down to "less white is good, less trans is good, more gay brown bxdies dumped into the country is le good". GOP in the US is the same too.
>>2442318Most of the UK establishment is anti-brown (especially anti-black) and anti-trans. They're anti-immigration in prejudice and pro-immigration only in administrative practice, which is not as contradictory as it may seem. To be ruling class in the UK basically demands you're at ease with a huge underclass which you regard as basically subhuman.
Remember that the "Equalities and Human Rights Council" (lol) found that Labour is institutionally antisemitic because of a handful of tweets but that the Tories are not institutionally islamophobic despite a string of much worse stuff (a former party chair came out attacking Michael Gove for his islamophobia, and he's an actual minister! Not institutional!!), and that the rights of trans people are always secondary to the rights of normal people not to see transhumanists. That - plus "Lol oops" deporting black citizens - is the UK establishment position.
>>2442318Wrong, at best they utilise Muslim social conservatism to imply their opinions are a modern pan-ethnic movement and more progressive and inclusive than anyone fighting for the rights of a very small minority as trans people are.
Beyond that performance of circumstantial benefit, they're extremely anti-brown.
>>2442267>My question to you, because I'm a fair sort, is: what would you actually do about the asylum hotels? Be serious.>They'll close eventually, but in the mean time, what else is there?there is only one option: deny all refuge for new asylum seekers while the backlog is sorted out and the immigration points system is reversed. as you say, the tories fucked up, which means hard measures are necessary to counter it. if not, we will run out of space for anyone. the government is even paying private landlords for accomodation, so we've basically already run out of space (32,000+ asylum seekers in hotels).
>>2442346>subhuman underclassso you agree that we should reverse this policy? it pleases nobody.
>>2442267>The logic, not quite spoken, is that the press really hate trans people and so attacking them shows the press that Labour is pliant and does what it's told. Fair point.
>The salience of immigration and asylum issues has risen in large part because the government itself has chosen to focus on those issuesDisagree. I think it's just become too hard to ignore. When immigrants were concentrated in the cities and a handful of constituencies it was a fringe issue. But now immigrants have become much more dispersed and you have these random fucking towns like Bradford and Luton where English are somehow a minority. When normies go to the shops and regularly hear people speaking languages they can't identify (I'm fairly well travelled and even I'm starting to struggle), or see asylum seekers dossing about their town, immigration becomes an everyday issue. The fabric of British society is changing at mach ten speed and people didn't ever get to vote on it so of course they'll be pissed off.
>My question to you, because I'm a fair sort, is: what would you actually do about the asylum hotels? Be serious. Deport the ones already here and stop accepting anymore. Removing all obstacles to do this wouldn't take more than a few months, it's just a complete lack of political will which prevents it from happening.
4chan will refuse to pay daily online safety fines, lawyer tells BBC
A lawyer representing the online message board 4chan says it won't pay a proposed fine by the UK's media regulator as it enforces the Online Safety Act.
According to Preston Byrne, managing partner of law firm Byrne & Storm, Ofcom has provisionally decided to impose a £20,000 fine "with daily penalties thereafter" for as long as the site fails to comply with its request.
"Ofcom's notices create no legal obligations in the United States," he told the BBC, adding he believed the regulator's investigation was part of an "illegal campaign of harassment" against US tech firms.
Ofcom has declined to comment while its investigation continues.
https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/cq68j5g2nr1o>>2443065well the bind in the west atm is that you can only be patriotic as long as you are zionist. if you are pro-britain and anti-israel, you will be called a nazi by the left and the right, so its a rock and hard place.
>the left = anti-british + anti-zionist.<the right = pro-british (middle class) + pro-zionistit would be nice to have a third option; someone like aaron bastani, who is both pro-british + anti-zionist.
>>2443819lmao, silly cunt.
Context?
>>2443822it's a spiced up jam sandwich.
i agree though it's obscene to sell this shit for 3 quid. i wait the day until someone pulls the plug out of this island and lets it sink in to the sea.
Why are Saxon progressive and socialists so unwilling to use the English flag? As it is the Cross of St. George is purely used by the right-wing even though it is just a national flag! Most other countries (apart from post settler-colonial states like the U$) don't have this issue where they won't engage with their own nation. This is a big strategic mistake.
Flying the Cross of St. George kills the Union Jack (which is a hate symbol like the Swastika or I$rael flag). The former is the national flag of England, of which there is nothing intrinsically wrong with, and the latter is the flag of the monarchy and empire. It's only because the right wing control the discussion around this stuff that the English flag is conflated with the Union Jack. England is the biggest country in the Union and it is largely the oppressor state, with England gone the empire will fall. So if English socialists want to kill the British Empire all they have to do is start celebrating England!
I think the issue is English communists do not seriously engage with the national question. They make up all these new plans for British federalism that don't actually solve the issue at hand, without ever saying anything good about England in particular. This is because they are all based in London and mentally they do not live in England, they live in the Empire, the centre of the world. This means they end up living in a different world from the normal people. If you want England to ever be a normal country and not a symbol of evil like the U$, it is up to you to make it one.
As a Welsh woman, I ask you to take down your Union JaKKKs, burn them, and put up an England flag instead.
>>2443893Trans people and immigrants exist only to be bashed, denied basic human rights, and treated as scary evil villain predator paedos
They are just an easy scapegoat to increase the density of Hitler particles in our society
>>2443904The conditions of their being hated are founded on a society that is based on the general and mutual exploitation of others for wealth vis a vis wage slavery.
Solve one and you solve the other; their suffering is not independently worthy of attention nor exemplary for their being somehow second class citizens, but part and parcel of the daily struggle to live within bourgeois society. If you continue to view them as moot factors - that is, simply wickermen waiting to be burnt - then you abstract from their being the products of an antagonism between labour and capital, or rather than of the class struggle.
They do not exist to be bashed; many of the doe hearted who cannot bring themselves to the cusp of denouncing British society for their stake in it (for their mortgages, and cars, and so on - but oh how we must recycle!) lionize the struggle these individuals face, for all the good it does.
View them as people and you might do them the decency by which they are undone as subjects whose existence is specularised under capital for profit.
>>2443920That's a lot of fancy faux-theoritcal language just to say:
"It doesn't matter if you get bashed for being a [insert slur of choice] - have you considered capitalism bad?
If you end capitalism then you won't get bashed for being a [slur], so you should just not worry about the personal risk to your safety in our current society :)"
I don't think I need to elaborate why that is fucking stupid and the kind of shit only someone who faces no risk of violence or persecution based on their immutable characteristics could write.
>>2443983i was asking a question;
waiting for an answer.
>>2443985You asked me about something that I never implied or alluded to, and I have no obligation to answer any question, particularly those unrelated to what I was discussing.
But of course there are criminal immigrants, there's paedophilic illegal immigrants that exist.
But the vast majority of immigrants aren't criminals, despite what the Daily Heil and GBeebies tells you.
There's also lots of white paedophiles, very wealthy peadophiles, presidential paedophiles even. Funny how none of you rightoids care about that.
>>2444005>yesthat wasnt hard was it?
>im a far right lunatic for talking about itim glad that you are open-minded to public concern
>We must start as we plan to go on. Either we believe that the socialist movement is an open conspiracy of equals, or we don’t believe in the movement at all.>For a party without a membership, but a great mass of supporters, sortition is, in my opinion at least, the only viable alternative by which conference participants can be selected and whereby the selected delegates would have any legitimacy to legislate the party into existence.>In the absence of a membership structure through which delegates can be elected, it is logically the only mechanism for the purpose for selecting delegates to the founding conference that can be based on the equal right to participate, and that can guarantee genuine mass representation of the two-thirds of a million people that have already registered interest in the party. These two when combined are the basis for the founding conference having meaningful democratic legitimacy and the method by which the foundations for a radically democratic party can be collectively dug and a mandate be given for the concrete to be poured that will provide it with the necessary structural and moral integrity to be a genuine success.>It may also well be the only avenue through which a decisive break can be made from the mistakes of the Corbyn era: the cults of personality around one public office holder or another, and the apolitical, anti-democratic networks of personal patronage and authoritarian enforcement through which people associated with said big wigs get to dictate decisions that should otherwise be democratically deliberated and decided upon.>This is road, I believe if walked down, that is the democratic and sole path to a Party Republic, in which all members are equal, and none more equal than others.https://medium.com/@maxshanly/born-for-life-or-marked-for-death-a12d87220e42 >>2442159>either MKultra'd or is a psyopDavid Miller is extremely hostile. (He acts like practically every Jew is a zio, no matter the evidence to the contrary. I think this can be explained by his consumption of mainstream media and the people he interacts with: Older people have a higher zio percentage than younger people, British Jews tend to be more zio than e. g. American Jews.) Anyway, he is not arguing without basis here. I agree it is dubious that one of these guys is married to Starmer's press secretary.
>>2444047>https://medium.com/@maxshanly/born-for-life-or-marked-for-death-a12d87220e42Good piece. Nitpick: One participant, one
vote ballot. The phrasing "one vote" of course is meant to refer to a ballot, but it can be taken to mean a single mark. This rhetoric is used to ban alternative voting procedures like approval voting.
>>2443876Oddly one of the few times I agree with you. The people who fly English flags currently are 99% reprobates and 1% slightly cranky SNP MPs who're demonstrating that they're not anti-English. (and they're not, truthfully.)
'Britain' as a nation is a doomed frankenstein-baby that fell out of an empire. Getting a left-wing head start on English nationalism would be a good idea because otherwise, when it emerges, it's going to be a fucking monster.
For Scotland I don't see too much problem, but for Wales I think this is playing with fire. Disentangling Wales from England will be messy, a good chunk of Wales is an English enclave.
>>2443886>>2443890The stated position of a good chunk of UK communist/socialist parties is that Scottish/Welsh nationalism is a whiny particularism, unlike British Unionism which is good and historically progressive. This always devolves into establishment drivel, a mix of attacking the SNP/Plaid using the same lines as Labour, while calling for a super-progressive federal union (just like Gordon Brown*) as a compromise solution. (Naturally, no such super-union is actually on offer)
*and Keir Starmer's staff laugh at the letters they get from Gordon Brown - really, they do. This is published fact. If that's how they treat a former Labour prime minister, how do you think they react when communists "demand" it? lmao.
>>2443876Cartoon: Ben Jennings
The two sides of patriotism.
>>2444413This is missing further context, I believe this has been going on for a while, it's (yet another) black cult preying on dumb americans, one of the women involved is currently under investigation for child neglect (potentially resulting in one of her children dying), and in total there was only 3 people involved in the cult, the king and his two women concubines.
Now, if this happened prior to tiktok/internet virality they probably would've just barely got a local news station report on them and that's it, but this ended up going viral on tiktok, RIGHT at the perfect time.
So, further context, a black scottish tiktoker did like, a normal tiktok in his car and it ended up getting black amerifat attention because they quite literally didn't know black scottish people existed.
THEN these african americans started saying insane shit like "damn so you guys must be the original natives of scotland huh" with zero proof, then also saying insane anti-african shit like "don't let THOSE AFRICANS pretend they're black-scottish like you guys" because currently african-americans have huge beef with africans (for some reason). They are completely unaware a majority of these black scots are second/first generation people from african families.
Anyway, this shit continues on for a bit, and then the lines cross and these retarded americans start saying that the cult are "THE ORIGINAL SCOTTISH PEOPLE" and now I believe they're going to see more members as a result.
Long story short, majority of this issue can be put down to americans being retarded supremacists even if they're black.
>>2445232Liz Truss?
Even then I'd say she wouldn't have been out first stage PM lmao
>>2445261Yeah Truss.
>>2445262Not that hard, women tend to be much more open to that kind of thing once they hit middle age. By that point, if you've been together a while, you're both gagging to cheat on eachother anyway.
>>2445296*maybe afghan men liberate afghan women
That's how it has always happenned btw
>>2445308>and every Communist experiment95% was men fighting for it.
>SuffragettesFair enough. But an exception. You don't see women doing terrorism over their rights anywhere else (or since then).
>>2446279No political party has pledged to abolish the triple lock, so sorry Nick you're out of luck.
Seriously though if you want to be pragmatic you could go with Reform as one of their big policies is increasing the personal allowance. I doubt they would expand the welfare state or foreign aid either, but who knows what retarded shit they will do if they actually take power.
>>2446287The meme template originated in France and basically parodies Rousseau's theory of 'The Social Contract' and its application in a modern setting. The main point it's making, that you have to understand, is that the state now primarily serves to shakedown young, productive workers through taxation and redistribute their earnings to less productive sections of society. It's a critique of modern capitalism from a more libertarian-y perspective rather than a socialist perspective but it still fucking hits home hard if you're a Nick.
Anyways, the meme has now been reappropriated for pretty much every country and they're really funny to look at, even the ones that aren't in English.
>>2446299>It's a critique of modern capitalism from a more libertarian-y perspective rather than a socialist perspective but it still fucking hits home hard if you're a Nick.It's a rather middle class perspective tbh, hence why it's more concerned with money going to poor, foreign people than the fact that so much more money is being moved upwards to create literally Victorian levels of wealth disparity.
"Libertarian" in this context just means they're annoyed they're not being given an opportunity to be the boot, that they can't even be the boot with immigrants.
>>2446302Exactly, those essentially double my taxes but I've no say over what my landlord in Hong Kong does with the money they deduct from me. But then again, why concern myself with being jealous of the foreign
but successful when I can worry instead about a tenner a week being exported to Africa of which I probably paid a fraction of penny towards?
>>2446299okay so it's an attempt to import and invigorate americas hyper-individualist anti-tax, anti-welfare state politics in europe through the use of memes?
Good to know, thanks.
>>2446345I suppose you're right, but certainly rent is a much bigger deduction to Nick's salary towards a single concern than taxes being spent on the NHS and DWP, framing rent as comparable to all other deductions on the meme still kind of frames it as being more anti-tax than anything else.
Like of the taxes we pay, a lot of it goes to people who have more than enough to create the aforementioned wealth disparity, that knowledge has me more incensed than the idea that there's a dingy flat somewhere in the outskirts of Birmingham with a family receiving essentially a pittance for nothing that they then divide between themselves and relatives in a place without running drinking water.
>>2446279stupid false equivalence image
the UK spends more on the state pension alone (£138bn) than on the unemployed (£1bn), the disabled (£40bn), housing benefit (£35bn - mostly a landlord subsidy, so could really be counted as going to the old lol), and foreign aid (£15bn, with the entire asylum system being considered 'foreign aid' even though it's domestic.) combined. yet fully half the image goes on the idea that money's being spunked up the wall on doleys and foreigners.
We spend £10bn a year on a nuclear deterrent that simply does not work because it relies on US made missiles, and America always gives us dud missiles. Britain has not successfully test fired a Trident missile in over a decade, yet it's investing hundreds of billions in new submarines to carry the same broken missiles, and tens of billions more (the exact amount is classified, but one of the secret reasons the government keeps finding it needs more money) on nuclear warheads to put on the missiles that don't work. But no, no, no, let's not save money there, the real rip off that gets my blood boiling is that we use foreign aid spending to buy ourselves friends and influence in Ethiopia, a country of 130 million people in a globally important location which has been running 5-15% GDP growth year on year since 2004.
>>2446504>>2446506being british means opposing our european rivals, the french. since 2020 we have become more like them though, with the hypernormal gestures of performative radicalism, like the public protests which signify nothing besides empty angst and civic duty - reminds me of orwell's "two minutes of hate" where we are given permission to misbehave. thats what the yellow vest nonsense was about too, but americans never got the context and took it seriously - its not just french though, but deeply american (another international opponent), where of course, jefferson himself was a jacobin, but the public displays of outrage like race riots and pride marches are baked into the american civil rights mythology from the time of the 60s. we've just caught up to it in a time where corporations fund thie libidinal release.
as a good brit, i of course stay out of the way of this franco-american humiliation.
>>2446514you just dont grasp what nationhood is about. we are allowed to say that the UK is a shithole, but the rest of the world isnt. its oyr shithole; thats what makes it authentically possessive. the right who promote patriotic pride miss the mark because they are trying to objectify a locus of subjectivity. they point to barren farmlands, "thats britain". is it? trying to "find" britain is impossible, since it is not a land, but a spirit.
>>2446535why dont you pack it in?
>>2446528liverpool is pleasant
manchester is shite
>>2446637in the US theres also "penny for your thoughts?"
a thoroughly commercial nation
>>2446661why do you keep sharing these freaks here?
>>2446664>What do you mean?NTA but don't you remember the time we shot a missile the wrong direction and the americans disabled it?
>>2446664The UK and US have a common pool of Trident missiles, which are maintained in the USA. UK Submarines spend a good chunk of their time heading to King's Bay, GA (which the UK pays £12m/year towards the maintenance of) to pick up missiles. Britain makes the nuclear warheads and the submarines, but the missiles themselves are made and tested in America, and Britain only
leases them.
It's a reasonable assumption that when choosing which missiles to use itself and which missiles to give to Britain, America picks the missiles with the best quality control and ground-test results for itself, and gives Britain whatever's left - hence why British missile tests keep failing, because they're giving us the duds.
>>2446957im going to kill a yourparty person if so.
Not existed one month and they're already trying to join a pro NATO party. spook retards.
>>2447959Imagine complaining about "political Jewry" and then trying to act like you aren't a Nazi
Why do you even come here?
>>2447970Stalin supported Israel at one point. Does that make Reform a marxist-leninist political party?
In all seriousness, we know the position of the Nazis on Israel as almost all of them who survived WWII went on to become fervent anti-zionists. Many even joined the Arab struggle against Zionism during the Cold War. Adolf Eichmann's right-hand man died in Damascus only 15 years ago.
>>2448003Everyone in this thread would be considered comparable to the Nazis by many of those in power. The word holds no weight anymore.
>>2448583>If that fucker gets near power i'll find the bbc squarely responsible.Maybe it's because I'm relatively young, but I never understood this logic. Most people now don't use the BBC for their news at all, instead relying on social media. BBC news gets around 3 million viewers on average, that's only a tiny proportion of the electorate.
The idea that if the BBC just completely ignored Farage, or did ingsoc style anti-Goldstein segments on him, then he wouldn't be polling so high is silly.
>Same with GriffonThe BBC clearly didn't intend to improve Nick Griff
in's popularity with that QT episode, they put him with an entirely hostile panel who gangraped him iirc. If you're arguement is that they shouldn't have had him on at all, that's also stupid.
>>2447901I am gonna be serious for a minute i don't even understand how you can consider Reform the incoming fascism when Labour is doing the things it is doing right now. Not that either are fascists anyway.
uygha see his gay uyghur panopticon center-left party banning everything from "hate speech" against Israel to sugar while enacting Jim Crow laws for trans people but Reform said mean things about BAME once of twice so they're Hitler.
It's that mentally ill leftism that made it a joke during the 2010s.
>>2448590You're looking at the numbers today rather than in 2010-2015 when it actually mattered. Moreover, you're pretending that the effects only exist directly (someone sees Farage on TV and becomes a UKIP voter) rather than more diffusely (The BBC pushes Farage on QT, which justifies a newspaper giving him more coverage than his actual prominence, which justifies bringing him back on QT…) within institutions.
Only Keir Starmer is more transparently astroturfed.
>>2448608Corbyn's problem wasn't le jews, it was the Labour party and the wider British establishment.
You think they'd let Corbyn look at (maybe even release!) all the secret imperial war crimes files just because he said Israel has a right to defend itself? You think they'd let Corbyn take the water-company shareholder money-printer away? You think they'd tolerate that impudent little marrow-farmer coming in and taking two high profile jobs (LOTO and PM) that was clearly reserved for one of the lads? Get fucking real. The cunt's never done a hostile briefing against a colleague to a Sun journalist in his life.
>>2448610Labour are tailists. I'm at ease with calling them fascists, but Reform (a) have a more classically fascist support base (the idea it's the working class is a meme) and (b) are clearly pushing further than Labour. Labour says they'll close the borders? Farage will come out and say that's not enough, it's time to start sending people back.
>>2448621farage is promising to deport 600,000 people. starmer will outflank him, and farage will outflank again.
if you view these people as opponents rather than components of the same failing system, you'll get very confused. stop trying to pick a good cop, they're both cops and they're both fitting you up for a crime you didn't commit because you're irish.
>>2448638>>2448621They'll agree on deporting 2 million then will deport 50000 and making memes about it while importing 500000.
it's the ICE-Meloni Doctrine.
>>2448652Major industries were nationalised for reasons of efficiency, not of socialism. If Attlee had offered workers control, rather than a bunch of committees chaired by the bastards who've always run this place, he'd have been out on his arse. This is also in the context of there being an immediately preceding war in which everything was run by the same committees chaired by the same bastards anyway.
Nobody would go for that nowadays, both for good economic reasons and for simple reasons of status: It feels much better to be the CEO in charge of a multinational logistics concern than to be the civil servant in charge of the state-owned post office.
Moreover, Britain isn't just run by glowies. It's run by a press and a general ruling class. You can be as pro-Israel, pro-NATO, and indeed as economically right-wing as you like and you'll still find yourself staring down the worst defeat in history if you promise to go through with Leveson 2.
>>2448667I think it's more responsibility than status, because people aren't alternatively CEOs or Civil Servants, those are usually pretty different people from the start. I don't think politicians and civil servants want to be responsible for leading entire industries and dealing with failures, losses, industrial action, etc.
Why bother with that shit when you can get paid one of the higher salaries going in the UK to sit on the backbenches to jeer at random statements the front benches make that you're kind of half listening to while playing Candy Crush on your phone.
>>2448768the cult of praxis also shows itself; "we need to do SOMETHING though…"
as parvini explains, be specific in your demands to the government where it concerns policy, rather than indulging in masturbatort vibes; "WE WANT OUR COUNTRY BACK". how's brexit britain going, for you? you had your petty rebellion and it made things worse. my criticism of gary stevenson is the same; "TAX THE RICH INNIT BLUD"; okay… lets get a specific plan in place rather than opportunistic slogans. think more, do less. armchair revolution.
>>2449135it's because to the average person, a hotel is something you stay in voluntarily while enjoying a holiday. it's basically a good thing, and boat people are getting it for free. "actually living in a hotel for a year would be fucking shit and you'd wish death on any politician who'd subject you to it because he couldn't at least pick a hostel with a fucking stove" doesn't occur to them. there's an offhand reference to our homeless (the only time you'll see daytime TV give a fuck about 'em), but the same is true for homelessness: when you're putting people up in hotels long term, it is because you have disastrously fucked up. you're not giving the homeless luxury, you're giving them the consequences of a failure to plan.
the dumbest part of it is that it's pretty much the only thing this government is fixing, and it'll count for nothing because they'd like to play to the "tough on boat people" crowd rather than correct the misconception that hotels are a sign of good treatment rather than rank incompetence that costs the treasury more money to provide
worse treatment to asylum seekers.
>>2449712The few protests organised where I live (and by few I do mean few, nothing happens here) are organised on facebook, which I refuse to use.
I did see RCP posters around a little while ago which is weird because they don't have a branch here.
it appears that the irony is lost on this iranian welshman larping as a posh academic that by his own words, "you cant just make an englishman out of whoever. you cant." seems strange to speak of england on his own behalf considering he doesnt even live there and doesnt share the blood - two steps removed, while the black youfs he indirectly screeches about may actually have recent ancestry in london, making them more english than him.
but this just reminds me of fellow race mystic carl benjamin who by his own words "was racemixed into being white", and not just white, but english, from a line of black people de-melanated by slave masters. it appears then that englishness is much more contingent than either of these men anticipate, and both men overdetermine their legitimacy in the white english tribe, by tactically excluding some people from consideration, whilst possessing the terms of their own exclusion.
some ancestral continuity is accepted while others arent. african or indian imperial subjects, of whom were formal citizens, are said to not belong, while being forced to become british in their own land - adam curtis in "cant get you out of my head" goes over this splendidly concerning michael de freitas, who believed in the british empire, but the british empire didnt believe in him. its a similar racist paradox in the US, where black slaves have been there since at least 1641, while 20th century immigrants (including jews) see themselves as possessing a greater birthright. i shan't forget about the MAGA kid telling native americans to "go back home" either. white supremacy is extremely contradictory.
>>2449712>>2449730You need to be on Instagram or in the right whatsapp chat comrades. Insta is then published facing thing for most groups not run by elderly cranks.
Also for the Mancanon, check out this:
https://www.instagram.com/commons_calendar_mcr The government are floating the idea of making Landlords pay NICs on rental income.
Which just serves to remind us that
>>2446458 is true. NICs are a tax on labour income but not on property income. They're an atrocity, justifiable under basically no ideological framework save for status-quo bias.
>>2450559Typical angloid reactionary.
Why not boast about the numerous genocides you vile tea-drinking animals committed?
>>2450511in the paper it said it would only raise £2B
20 billion left to go!
>>2450287He is a stalinist now
Unfuckingbelieveable.
>>2450688Exactamundo.
After the russians bombed the brit embassy in kyiv, looks like starmer wants ww3.
>>2451102jezza waffling on important issues?
NEVA.
Your Party already seems to be fracturing - the capitalist (and Zionist) forces are pushing out the working class parts. This inevitable end of socialists trying to co-opt social democracy.
https://x.com/BTimberley/status/1961067152712093963?t=KaZgTD-7U0zKCenu_F8fVA>>2452062I sound better today than I did in the video btw because I wasn't voice training.
>>2452091well he doesnt care about ideology as much as political competency. thats why like others on the neoreactionary right, he sees liberal technocrats like tony blair unfortunate but effective elites, while conservative counter-elitism always fails. yarvin explains it in the terms that a liberal/leftist sees power as an end in itself so is able to sacrifice principles, while a rightist is by all accounts naive and neurotic, undone by their own small-town consistency, rather than rising by a machiavellian two-facedness. in yarvin's mythics racism, its about elves, hobits and orcs. the elves are supposed to appeal to the hobbits (a so-called "high-low" theory of power, where aristocrats can rally political support from proles better than the bourgeoisie - benjamin disraeli is perhaps an example). right-wing weirdos are just not elite, so do not appeal to proles, but the lumpen instead. they are beyond the pail of high-mindedness and instead appeal to low-brow intuition. this is also a conflict in white nationalist spaces, where people like richard spencer and nick fuentes just generally see more elute human capital on the left than the right - this is part of parvini's perspective too. so the right fosters a great deal of bioleninism we may say. when the local crackhead feels politically represented by farage, you know that you are scraping an empry barrell.
>>2452498the amnesia is crazy
these fellas dont remember receiving their "fell for it again" awards in 2020, when the whole country was quarantined as the tories held banquet parties and boris opened the floodgates, due to brexit going through?
>>2453296>Obese-JectyWhat the fuck is that name
Kill all aristos
If you really want to argue about Your Party, the fun isn't whether Corbyn's anti-zionist, it's whether Adnan Hussain is a TERF Landlord.
That's a much more likely setup for internal conflict. A mass-membership party is likely to have a large bottom-up objection to this (but with a harder core of older serial-joiners who're opposed to the view of the majority), but an MP holds a lot of top-down power over a minor party. Other MPs are more likely to be inclined to side with an MP over the grassroots, unless that MP can advance themselves by doing othewise. Corbyn is, let's be honest, a very nice man but a ditherer, he's unlikely to come down hard on either side…
It could resolve itself quickly and elegantly, it could be a big mess, it could be a low-key embarrassment that only a small circle care about, or it could appear to resolve itself with a wishy-washy statement only to pop back up as a huge embarrassment later. Who knows. It's certainly a more likely faultline than "is the most pro-Palestine party in parliament insufficiently pro-palestine?"
(We can look to the SNP for comparison here. Fundamentalists and Incrementalists sucked up their differences and backed the most pro-Independence party… but there was ultimately a split over personal loyalties and trans issues…)
>>2453613Almost 0% chance. There's no SNP friends of Israel despite having been the third biggest party in the UK for a good period.
>>2453811capitalism is generally dated back to northern european joint stock corporations like the east india company (founded 1600). jews were only readmitted into england after the english civil war, in 1656.
communism has a broken history, but its foundations can be seen from french and utopian socialists. robert owen (a welsh manufacturer turned utopian socialist - who first advocated for the 8 hour working day) appears to be one of the earliest in this tradition (1813-), similarly conceiving of labour vouchers. in the 1820s were also the "ricardian socialists" (named after david rircardo, a formaliser of the labour theory of value). the origin of the term "communism" (1793) and "socialism" (1832) are both french. the only "jewish" influence i can imagine is marx, who came later (1840-), but marx's writings do not appear jewish; in fact, marx is much more antisemitic than philosemitic. marx's entire economic basis also comes from british economists. the term "judeo-bolshevism" perhaps contextualises your meaning, but this lends itself to the 20th century. there was only 5% of bolsheviks who were actually jewish however. further claims of wall street funding the soviets may be legitimate, but they also funded the nazis, so i doubt it can be seen as a singular "jewish plot". to conclude, capitalism, communism and fascism are all european inventions.
>>2453812you cant win a "no true scotsman" purity spiral
>>2453993the case is in point with carl that he sees israel as an ethnostate as "sovereign" and wants the same for england, yet an ethnostate still preserves class war. carl has never implied a material analysis, but only a banal theory of everything, that universalist liberalism is the mind virus at the root of all problems (the same as dugin). of course, neither carl or dugin seem as diagnostic as nietzsche or alain de benoist, so fall into the redundancy of conservatism, rather than a revaluation of all values. carl's spiritual protestantism is his modernism, and so his destiny to reckon with universality.
>>2454003shush.
>>2454007its simply the fact that youre not allowed to criticise israel if youre on the lotus eaters that gives it away.
>>2454055There's a relevant section on this in Mike Mcnair's article on Britain's class composition in this week's Weekly Worker.
>A more complicated story is that of benefits - as of 2023, £265 billion in the budget, with 22.6 million or 33% of population in receipt. These are, of course, in a certain sense for our benefit as pensioners, as the sick, as housing benefit recipients, and so on. But, just as housing benefit is a subsidy to landlords, if we ask what would happen if benefits suddenly stopped being paid altogether, the answer is that before the death of lots of people, a great many small businesses who have significant numbers of customers on benefits would go bust, as would a good many employers who rely on paying wages below the reproduction cost of labour-power on the basis that the employees will be able to claim benefits. So benefits are not merely for the benefit of recipients, but also a subsidy to (smaller) businesses relative to what a pure free-market regime would produce.https://weeklyworker.co.uk/worker/1550/class-composition-in-a-snapshot/Part 1:
https://weeklyworker.co.uk/worker/1549/class-composition-in-a-snapshot/ >>2454094Step 1: It's not really happening
Step 2: Yeah, it's happening, but it's not a big deal
Step 3: It's a good thing, actually
Step 4: People freaking out about it are the real problem
>>2454089next time post the link to the article to begin with. get into the habit.
anyway, yeah. fucking genocide all moids that even dare to look at the reflection on a puddle of something even resembling a woman.
>>2454188Fine. Here's a different arguement: the British state's campaign to ensure the "safety of women" has also led to trans women being stripped of their rights and porn becoming a more tightly restricted commodity than alcohol.
In this Labour government we'll most likely also see sex work criminalised and TERF viewpoints enshrined in law. Where exactly do you draw the line when "protecting women from perverts" anon?
>>2454560>American horror at the state of Britain is, to some extent, a product of a romantic Anglophilia, according to which Britain is the land of Downton Abbey and afternoon tea. It is indeed a sad thing that Britain, as it actually exists, is so depressing. But when American commentators claim that Britain has “fallen”, they are being unproductive despair-mongers. Yes, Britain has a lot of problems, but so do you, and defeatism ignores the tremendous appetite for change in the country. I think it's because all your media has primed us for the coming British Dystopia. We didn't write these. I think the writer has it all wrong, it's not that we have some perception of Britain as a fancy and good place. Britain is the authority we rebelled from. Britain seems like the "this is you country 10 years from now" in terms of the big brother state and general dystopia.
>>2454617Britain has a concept of rights, it's just entirely perverted and backwards, referring to the right of the superior to bully and belittle their inferiors, rather than to the universal rights of citizens.
One has an "equality act protected right" to be a TERF, for example. (though of course this is very equal, i suppose, in that even a transwoman is allowed to be a TERF, but not to present as a transwoman in public.)
>>2454560what's the deal with 'the critic' anyway, weird smug little rightoid journal.
(the article itself isn't
that objectionable, but it approvingly links to others complaining that - for example - britain is littered with "pro hamas flags", e.g… the flag of palestine.)
>>2454096THANK YOU for seeing the playbook in action.
>>2454146peep the badge
>>2454224porn should be banned inshallah
>>2454617the UK is more functionally free than the US, since in the US you theoretically have rights, but might get randomly kidnapped or killed by your police force. you theoretically have free speech but might get de-banked for saying the wrong thing - or maybe even deported for supporting palestine on your college campus.
>>2454802its not illegal to be transgender - yet. so stop exaggerating.
>>2454825not having a right to do something doesn't make it illegal. it does, however, mean you have no
right to do it.
>>2455159He seems to have spent the last month prolifically posting about social conservativism on twitter, highlighting it is from a Muslim perspective.
Was he always like this and only recently got the attention due to Your Partys formation?
from this video:
https://youtu.be/BS_7kJtUJJE>because of thatcher's class war against organised labour, corporations now have the power to outsource job recruitment to immigrants in order to suppress wages. so immigration does lower wages by competition between workers but we should be mad at corporations instead of immigrants.i largely agree that mass immigration is a capitalist phenomenon of labour competition, but the implication he also provides is that if we had more labour protections then we would have less immigration - this a consequence he parses out in clip 2; that higher worker protections directly correspond to less low-skilled immigration. the failure of the right then, is to conceive of capital's contradiction, by treating the symptom rather than the root cause. the way to lower immigration thus is by raising wages in order to employ more domestic low-skilled workers for a reasonable incentive. all other solutions fail.
>>2456613i shouldnt expect to be able to make tongue-in-cheek comments around here, i suppose. but parvini's elitist theory is still fundamentally correct where it concerns the base of power. i have previously demonstrated that the large majority of revolutionaries in the past and present have been intellectuals (brahmin). the contrary proposition that matter moves the mind is disavowed by the very activity of intellectuals, who try to direct people rather than join them in their spontaneity.
>>2456616the irony is that none of these ideas are new, theyre actually old. yarvin's theory of politics is aristotle + machiavelli (+ schmitt). its just that once you step outside of the false consciousness of the status quo, you are able to perceive things more adequately. i prefer a first principles approach to politics, so inevitably fall into a liberal formalism, the same as hegel. the crisis today is that we have fallen into a totalitarian libreralism (diagnosed by alain de benoist from the basis of human rights creating the fiction of the individual, by dugin on the basis of universalism and nietzsche on the basis of egalitarianism - benoist would suggest "organic democracies" to replace representation; political philosophies like "national anarchism" seem inspired by this thinking - where the claims to property are collective rather than individual. dugin would suggest radical humanism to combat the inhuman subject, and nietzsche suggests aristocracy). i am perhaps naive, so stick to facts, logic and reason in an attempt to save the bourgeois revolution from itself. the far left and right can only censor truth but cannot erase it.
saw on GB news (vidrel) that gazans are being fast-tracked into universities by fully funded scholarships, implying an inequality of access to education between british citizens and migrants. looking further into it i saw this article;
https://thepienews.com/uk-opens-door-to-40-gazan-students-on-funded-scholarships/>The government has approved plans to allow approximately 40 students from Gaza to travel to the UK to begin funded university scholarships. Some NINE of these students will come through the prestigious Chevening scheme, a government-funded scholarship program that enables future leaders from around the world to pursue one-year master’s degrees at UK universities.>According to the BBC, it is understood that the Home Secretary has also approved plans for the additional 30 students holding fully funded scholarships through various private schemes.so it is only 40 gazans and only 9 will receive government subsidisation - we know why GB news are so angry though, because its gazans, specifically.
>>2457622And how much are you freaks getting paid by the government to wave your faggy yellow and pink "Refugees Welcome" signs around in neighbourhoods miles away from your nice posho villages, sneering at the locals and calling them Nazis for daring to object to hoards of rapey Afghans harassing their daughters?
Only pakis and smug rich posho lefty cunts support Palestine, the rest of us are sick of seeing your filthy terrorist flag and wish you would all just fuck off there and fight for your glorious Jihad if you love them so much.
>>2457601actually, i am a liberal 😀
>>245762372% of countries in the world recognise a palestinian state (the UN is clearly not a democracy). its actually the "rich posho" nations (EU, UK, commonwealth and USA) who are zionist in their foreign policy. weird that you equate anti-zionism with elitism when the ruling world powers are continuing the war crimes in palestine. next, tommy boy will have you putting up israel flags next to england flags to show your loyalty to the greater regime.
>>2457631you clearly dont care about anything. all you do is hate.
>>2457633>>2457640SWP ≠ HNH
you are a bit confused here
>>2457642I can't wait until 2029 when Reform win a landslide because the Woke Al-Jihadi Leftoid Alliance is hopelessly split between Labour and Comrade Corbyn's party, and deport every single one of these Jihadi shitskin monkeys back from whence they came.
>oooo look every shitskin country in the world is on our side we have the moral high groundPalestine will be wiped off the map and there's nothing you can do about it, cry more.
(Reactionary) >>2457623>wave your faggy yellow and pink "Refugees Welcome"No one is doing this anymore but the people that did at the time are all based terf now which i am sure you love.
By the way picrel was already a LGB against T guy at the time, i shit you not.
>>2457646>actually believing Reform will do le mass deportationI am voting for them because they are better on trans rights than current day labor but come on.
>>2457673I've been hearing people suggest that Reform would be better on trans rights but is this anything more than empty speech on Reform's part? It's easy to say controversial things when you're not in power. If they won, wouldn't they be pretty stupid to turn against a good portion of unfortunately socially regressive and anti-trans Brits? Maybe the liberal terfs are allergic to Reform, but hasn't the terf position become so mainstreamed at this point that they aren't really needed by Reform, they can just steal the rhetoric for themselves.
Maybe Reform just has enough credit with the public to get away with what would seem like mildly woke moves. Something like: "all Brits deserve dignity, including trans people (as long as they work and follow the law)."
The so called "Labour Party" is pretty abysmal on trans rights though.
>>2457838he's been "obsessed" with the trans folk for over 20 years (vidrel). the spite and anger he shows them must have a deeper meaning than mere bullying.
>>2457914i do wonder what he would think if the crowd he runs with do manage to make him a second class citizen.
>>2457919to what? more incompetency? my complete faith is that under farage immigration will increase.
>>2458619The front page of every newspaper tomorrow is a sob story about how he is a poor victim.
None of them mention how he literally broke the law by calling for direct violence against a minority group.
Starmer, Badenoch and Farage have all stated on record that they stand with him and think it's totally fine to call for violence against minorities.
I guess the media trying to stoke genocidal violence against trans people is a change from their usual gimmick of targeting immigrants.
I am done. I am trans and have chronic nerve pain but I am still working my ass off nearly every day doing night shifts to afford to leave hopefully before the next election.
>>2459164he's not controlled opposition, he's just not a leader. He literally did not want to be the leader of the labour party and only ran because it was his turn to lead the token left challenge that inevitably comes dead last. He won because the other candidates totally blundered. They signed up to Tory welfare cuts
during the leadership campaign after an election loss during which the average labour member thought they lost because they had nothing exciting to offer, just austerity lite. You could predict how incompetent Starmer would be in power purely from how incompetent Labour's powerbrokers were in creating the circumstances that let Corbyn win in the first place. He was uncontrolled opposition, but unfortunately he was as uncontrolled by the left as by the right. Frankly, the smart establishment play (for the long term preservation of thr UK) would've been to let him win, but they'd just had their fingers burned by him winning before, creating an impression of competence from sheer luck.
>>2459279Yeah he's just a lil' bean
Or he's doing the political equivalent of weaponized incompetence
>>2459291Yeah, this guy is putting organized terfism before Palestine. He has to go. He has no use to the your party movement now.
But I have to say though. Seeing one MP cause some people online to say "your party" is "preemptive dead" or that they having "second thoughts" doesn't speak well to the political intelligence of some people on the left.
>>2459307Anglosphere leftists today suffer from their perfectionism. If the party isnt perfect then they would rather not bother with politics instead of pushing things in the direction they want within the party.
That's why Labour became the way it is btw.
>>2459322this article speaks of the party's pre-emptive dearh;
https://medium.com/@JamalLydon/adnan-hussain-and-the-pre-emptive-death-of-your-party-dd89c8d6cd96what is true also is the fact that MANY people confuse muslim identity politics for leftist coalitionism:
>It has also drawn attention to Hussain’s registered interests, with users noting he is a landlord of two residential properties in Burnley, garnering even more negative press. A landlord who thinks he is fit to comment on class politics is almost too on the nose. Hussain also has a history of being anti-abortion and pro private school. Even going as far to identify himself as “Socially conservative.” It seems his only remotely left wing position is on Gaza. For the rest he is no different than a Labour MP.more reports on the internal disaster of the party:
>While neither of the expected Co-leaders of the party have made any direct comments about the situation, Zarah Sultana did indirectly respond to the situation with a tweet vocalising her support for the trans community just hours after Hussain’s initial outburst. Corbyn’s response however has been quite disappointing. On the 30th of August, the day after Hussain’s initial tweets, Corbyn attended a Your Party rally in Blackburn where he sat, spoke with and even hugged Adnan despite his transphobic vitriol.not to be "that guy", buy i knew this grift was going nowhere from the beginning.
>>2459535The fight isnt between the Islamic bloc and the Trans Right bloc right now it's between radfem and trans.
>>2459518Reminder that the real problem is racism, islamophobia and homophobia.
>>2459550>The fight isnt between the Islamic bloc and the Trans Right bloc right now it's between radfem and trans.>Reminder that the real problem is racism, islamophobia and homophobia.I think you fundamentally fail to understand how reality functions.
These are interconnected situations with various connections and threads weaving them together - see how Adnan is cosying up to Rosie on the issue.
All factions are always interacting with each other, and RadFems, islamic groups, and conservatives will distinctly but with a unified goal against trans rights.
They aren't discrete forces all in isolation from each other.
Not sure what the second point is implying. There's no mutual exclusion. Racism, homophobia and transphobia are all major problems. But anti-migrant and anti-trans views are especially widespread and being promoted by the media and establishment right now.
>>2459567>Racism, homophobia and transphobia are all major problemsThese things are not equivalent.
The UK elites and working class are the brownest and gayest in the west and their telos is about importing endless gay brown people into the realm. As said elite's decisions are negatively impacting the UK's quality of live and it's future they are spacegoating trans people.
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