Let us hear a few words from our fellow British comrade, Thomas Scripps, on Corbyn's new party:
https://www.wsws.org/en/articles/2025/08/03/duqf-a03.htmlCorbyn and Sultana’s new party—In their own words
<Jeremy Corbyn and Zarah Sultana have given their first interviews on the new party they announced last week. They make clear that the organisation, with the placeholder name “Your Party”, will offer the working class no change from the political spinelessness displayed by Corbyn as leader of the Labour Party…>>2417682 The founder of Advance UK went to a private school, Cambridge, went straight into finance as an analyst for Lehman Brothers, entered the property business
When he went into politics, he was a candidate for the brexit party, was elected and was the wealthiest MEP at the time.
They want an anti-immigration party because they see the current level of immigration as destabilising. Still, they don't want to cede it to an actual, full-on racialist party, so, in a way, I guess it is a controlled operation of sorts, and at the same time, they can make money off retards as a grift and defend certain business interests they have.
>>2417700>racialist partythe only racialism i see is how british political leadership is becoming entirely BAME.
we have kami badenoch for the tories
ben habib for advance uk
zia yusuf for for reform
zarah sultana for JCP
mothin ali for the greens (shortly to be)
humza yousaf for the SNP (formerly)
the only white party left is labour, led by SStarmer
"fell for it again award" ceremony incoming?
>>2417727she is the reincarnation of queen guinevere
sultana is the reincarnation of gaelic brigid
>>2418534>you are racist and should die if you criticise non-stun animal slaughterwhats the muslim equivalent of a shabbos goy? a complicit kafir?
>>2418524its interesting that if i were personally performing halal and/or kosher slaughter, i would be called a sadistic psychopath who might become a serial killer, yet if i slapped a religious sticker on it and sold it to the public, i would have legal exemption for my profits - same way you can mutilate a child's genitals if you call it sacramental. theres a contradiction in the law.
https://archive.is/wH81c
>UK construction activity plunges in July
>UK construction activity in July fell at the sharpest rate since 2020, dragged down by a drop in housebuilding, undermining a key government pledge to boost the number of homes built.
>S&P Global’s UK Construction Purchasing Managers’ index, a closely watched gauge tracking activity in the sector, showed a fall in July to 44.3, down from 48.8 in June, the steepest drop since May 2020. A number below 50 signals a contraction in activity.
>The fall exceeded economists’ expectations, with those polled by LSEG predicting a flat reading.
>Civil engineering and commercial construction activity both contracted, S&P noted on Wednesday, “but a considerable drag came from a fresh drop in residential building”. Construction businesses cited site delays, fewer new orders and weaker customer confidence.
>Joe Hayes, principal economist at S&P Global Market Intelligence, said that UK constructors were preparing for “challenging times” ahead.
>“They’re buying less materials and reducing the number of workers on the payroll,” he said.
>“Expectations also continue to underwhelm, despite a modest pick-up in confidence from June’s two-and-a-half-year low.”
>Composite data also published by S&P Global on Wednesday, which includes manufacturing and services, fell slightly to 50.8 in July from 51.7 the previous month. >>2419568Must be the 5% increase.
Partially related reading:
https://www.wsws.org/en/articles/2025/07/24/cngm-j24.html<NATO moves to militarize Rotterdam port in plan for total war on Russia >>2419386>whats the muslim equivalent of a shabbos goy? a complicit kafir?It's Dhimmi.
I doubt any of the methods we use for slaughter are truly painless and ethical though. I am fine with hurting animals for food at the end of the day.
>>2419568The UK still have a military?
>>2419600like me?
>>2419619>dhimmiah, thank you. "jizya" is a tax which the dhimmis pay.
>I am fine with hurting animals for food at the end of the day.the question is less to do with the method itself and more to do with the exception which religions have against the law. all political issues really centre in on this primary contradiction - israel has exception to the law; illegal immigrants have exception to the law; islam in the UK has exception to the law, etc.
what this immanently reveals is the notion of universality being an equal standard of fairness - this sense of justice begins in the family, where the parent affirms their own exception against the child - "do as i say, not as i do". plato also discusses the noble lie, or necessary evil at the heart of power (what carl schmitt would call "sovereignty") - tensions then arise in giving enquiry to this fact, which originate in the inequality of the household. our frustrations then manifest from this earlier period in life. a child always speaks the truth when they say "its not fair!", and so they learn to be liars themselves. original sin. 🥀
>>2419904philistine
>>2419905plato only thought the ideal guardians could live in common, and saw that the rest of society had to exist in a caste system. aristotle is more critical of class inequality, but is ultimately a succdem, advocating for redistribution. epicurus is usually the proto-communist phiosopher people look towards.
https://archive.is/wwLTrRachel Reeves faces £51bn hole in the public finances, think-tank warns
>Rachel Reeves faces a £51bn black hole in the public finances, according to an influential think-tank that warned the chancellor will be forced to raise taxes in the autumn Budget if she is to meet her spending pledges and stick to her fiscal rules.
>Forecasts published by the National Institute for Economic and Social Research on Wednesday suggested that Reeves would need to fill a hole of £41.2bn in October’s Budget to stay on course to meet her key fiscal target of balancing day-to-day spending with revenues by 2029-2030.
>The shortfall would rise to £51.1bn if Reeves were to restore the headroom of £9.9bn she had previously built into her plans.
>Niesr argued that the chancellor needed to build an even larger buffer than the “wafer thin” £9.9bn margin of error to avoid “prolonged economic uncertainty arising from piecemeal policy tinkering”.
>Niesr’s estimate is even more pessimistic than those of other forecasters, some of whom have warned that the hole in the government’s finances could be about £20bn.
>It rests on an assumption that the Office for Budget Responsibility, the fiscal watchdog, has been overestimating the UK’s long-term growth potential.
>It also takes into account recent reversals of planned welfare reforms and data showing borrowing has overshot forecasts.
>With spending plans for the next three years largely fixed, “the only lever available is to raise taxation in a moderate but sustained way”, the think-tank said. But “the most politically acceptable choices . . . would either raise very little revenue or would have large distortionary effects”.
>Ministers have repeatedly said they will stick to manifesto pledges not to raise taxes on “working people” but have given mixed messages on what this might mean.
>Darren Jones, chief secretary to the Treasury, suggested last month that the promise might only apply to the headline rate of key taxes such as income tax, national insurance and VAT.
>David Aikman, director of Niesr, said “gradual but sustained” tax increases or spending cuts were inevitable and argued that raising income tax rates would be the best way to rebuild a fiscal buffer.
>“Something will have to give,” he said on Wednesday.
>Niesr said extending a freeze on income tax thresholds — a policy that Prime Minister Sir Keir Starmer last month refused to rule out — would raise an extra £5.8bn by 2029-30.
>This is less than in the past because slower wage growth would mean fewer people saw their earnings rise into new tax brackets. >>2419905>>2419915i was thinking yesterday too that xenophon is clearly a proto-neoliberal, so add that to the list.
>>2419924>poles>white🤔😜
>But prolonging the freeze — which was implemented by the previous Conservative government and is set to run until April 2028 — would hit poorer households especially hard, Niesr warned, after a period when sharp rises in food and housing costs had already eroded their disposable income.
>Lowering the rate of tax relief on pension contributions could raise as much as £15bn, Niesr noted, but would discourage savings, with negative effects on the economy.
>Changes to national insurance contributions, corporation tax or VAT could also raise significant revenues, but these would discourage job creation, deter investment or hit the poorest most, the think-tank said.
>While reforms to council tax, though politically difficult, could be part of the solution, for Reeves to “really shift the dial . . . rises in income tax rates are likely to be the best answer”, Niesr added.
>The Treasury said it would not speculate on the updated forecasts that the Office for Budget Responsibility would publish at the autumn Budget, adding that the government would focus on growing the economy as “the best way to strengthen the public finances”.
>>2420011greatest irony ofc is that its the slavic (slave) people who are the biggest wignat "fell for it again" retards today.
>>2420019biasing a court toward the correct decision, yes. there is a retrial in 2026, so at least justice will be served then.
>>2420297he is afraid of inevitably failing his supporters by not giving them what they want. after brexit, farage could have easily been PM, but he doesnt want to be; he would rather make big chungus cameos than have a principled platfotn - he was even ready to forfeit on brexit itself. like many on the right, he wants to lose, so that he has an excuse for his victim complex. the rights entire platform is a general complaint; it is a negative platform - thats why they shit themselves whenever theyre in power, since they have to actually do something instead of pointing fingers. but farage is also a moderate, saying that robert jenrick is to the right of him; claiming that the far right are thugs and so on. he is not a real populist, just an opportunist. as we see, labour are just effortlessly more competent than the tories, like how the democrats are more competent than the republicans in the US, so my prediction is that if nige gets in, immigration and crime will get even worse, like how the economy got worse under thatcher
>>2420461Takes a bigger retard not to realise that prostitution and the objectification of women's bodies involves the sale of sex and so forth for profit
Deeply unmarxist!
>>2420564Of the 3 Pankhurst sisters:
One (Christabel) moved to California and joined a Jehovah's Witnesses type Christian end times apocalypse cult.
One (Adela) was a Marxist-Leninist, then moved to Australia and literally founded the Australian Communist Party, before later leaving it to do a political 180 turn and become a Hitler supporting Fascist.
And the last one, (Sylvia) was a Pannekoek style Council Communist, then an anti-imperialism activist living throughout Africa, before eventually becoming a supporter of Haile Selassie's imperial monarchist bourgeois regime in the mistaken belief that Imperial oppression by Africans was somehow good just because it wasn't White colonisers doing it…
She became a guest of his court, and was partially responsible for creating the Rastafari movement.
>>2420380>Tbh the evidence was omitted because you can see one of the police officers kicking and attempting to stamp on the head of the accused while restrainedcant stand people who barge in with conjecture. the jury were shown the footage of the police officer kicking the suspect, you pillock. thats why the media immediately called the case a racist hate crime - but when the bodycam footage was released to the public, everyone saw it for what it was; a moment of chaotic violence from the suspect and frustration from the police officer. i believe they are sacking the police pfficer in this case, yet the two monsters who tased the 92-year-old amputee to death have walked free. injustice reigns.
>>2420450if only they would release the CCTV footage of yaxley-lennon's incident as well 🤔
>>2421352Grover Furr is right.
I've never seen a criticism of Grover Furr that wasn't some ad hominem drek ("Stalinist apologist!" "Stalin bootlicker!")
Like so? Who cares? Is he right?
Can you point to anywhere in his work where he is wrong? Has he falsified a footnote like every liberal and trot historian?
Crickets.
Furr is undefeated
>>2421581>Whyd jews want to replace angloidsIn 1982 Israel supplied weapons to Argentina to kill English people because they were still mad over British soldiers executing Irgun terrorists in the 1940s. They hate everyone who has oppressed them histrionically, which bizarrely enough is every society which has ever came into contact with them.
>Angloids are the biggest asslickers of Israel Most Anglos hate Israel. Our political class is just so infested with Zionists that state policy doesn't reflect popular sentiment. The exact same principle applies in all Middle Eastern countries too, except for Iran and Yemen.
>>2419844>rebel absurdityThat's a name, I haven't heard in a long time.
I wonder what happened to her
>>2421588>Israelis send weapons to Argentina because they are mad about the IrgunsWell why didn't the Israelis send weapons to the IRA then?
The argentinian regime just had a huge amount of dealings with many states in the Western gun running scene. A lot of Argentinian armaments ended in the hands of Croat soldiers during the Yugo wars for example
>>2421619>Well why didn't the Israelis send weapons to the IRA then?Because the Palestinians already were, is the simple answer.
>The argentinian regime just had a huge amount of dealings with many states in the Western gun running scene.And almost all of those dealings ended after they invaded the Falkland Islands due to pressure from Britain and the US on various countries (France most infamously). But the Israelis went to great effort to continue supplying the Argentine Junta, while simultaneously attempting to mask their activities with the help of British Jews.
>>2423102>Not a single recorded case of an asylum seeker harming protestersthere are recorded videos of asylum seekers throwing things at protestors from the hotel windows
>yet many cases of members of the british public harming asylum seekers.where? i havent seen a single example; yet hundreds of counter-examples exist. seems unequal to me, so i raise the issue.
>>2423103is it fascist to oppose the subsidisation of crime? you types are bringing an ugly ultimatum on yourselves where you defend nonces over the british public.
>>2423403many far right wreckers often show up and cause a disturbance at the peaceful protests. you can see this where the hooligans show up after the women and children demonstration in canary wharf. these are the same types who wanted yaxley-lennon to show up at epping.
>>2423401i am a british leftist, so post in leftybritpol. seems rather self-evident.
>>2423143 >mob violence and vigilantismthe only people who have been hurt are the rioters themselves, just like in southport and everywhere else. there have been no victims of these demonstrations.
>justicewe have a right to protest in this country. if you think opposition to the government should be silenced, like how pro-palestine protestors are being branded as terrorists, then you show your loyalty to the ruling class, who wants the public to entirely shut up. if by justice you refer to the cause of the protest itself - what do you think is the adequate response to 3 girls being stabbed to death in broad daylight, or young girls being molested by older men, or grooming gangs with police involvement, systematically raping young girls? is anger acceptable? is frustration valid? i would go further and say that all nonces and child murderers deserve to be killed themselves - what do you say?
>>2423116>is it fascist to oppose the subsidisation of crime? No sir, I hate crime.
Doing crime is an insult to the wonderful politicians who wrote those laws and it's an even bigger insult to the billionaires who are funding those politicians.
>>2423415Indeed we shouldn't. Every cent going to a criminal is a cent not going to a politician or billionaire.
And as a real British patriot I will tell you that I LOOOOOOOOOOOVE billionaires and politicians.
I would even let them have sex with my wife, as long as it's lawful of course.
>>2423481i think we all know the answer.
lord protector of zion
>>2423505keep apologising for nonces and see what happens
>>2423506have any of the brown people done things to warrant a negative response?
>>2423523>implying that there are no migrant noncesshould i cite some sources or are you just playing stupid on purpose?
>prince andrewis anyone defending prince andrew? no. yet you are defending asylum seeker nonces. thats the hypocrisy.
>>2423533You can also ask them about the age of their girlriends
A lot of lumpen youth white or BAME have girlfriends who are stil in their early 15s, 16, 17 etc
>>2423539I'm trying to tell you that there are no 40 year old Pakistanis raping 9 year old kids man
Most of these grooming cases are either guys in their 20s dating a teenager (which a loot of white lads in the yoo kay also do) or systematic child rape rings in orphanages which has to do with defunding of these institutions
>>2423542>I'm trying to tell you that there are no 40 year old Pakistanis raping 9 year old kids mannone at all? all these recorded rape cases were made up by the courts, then?
>Most of these grooming cases are either guys in their 20s dating a teenagertestimony from survivors say that it was pimping (trafficking) and systematic abuse - but to you (a person clearly unfamiliar with the story), it was just young love, innit?
just saw this nobhead:
https://x.com/judge148https://m.youtube.com/@edgeofthematrix/videosbriskly escape to lime street station - was gonna ask him about nigel farage's comments on trans women in prisons, but he disappeared after i popped out of the tescos. he comes to liverpool every so often, so maybe ill see him again.
>>2423615Farage said that what prison trans prisoners get sent to should be judged on a case by case basis, and that there might be some instances where a trans woman should go to a women's prison
That makes him more progressive on trans rights than Starmer's Labour party
>>2423605The weirdest thing is that none of this is "in" the law as such. (e.g. the legislation, even in light of the supreme court's
manifestly stupid and wrong judgement)
Public bathrooms aren't single sex spaces, legally speaking. Nor is a women's golf club or whatever. The solution, in law, to someone using the wrong restroom is to tell them to leave, and if they refuse, then they're trespassing. For a golf club, a women's golf club isn't
required to discriminate against men at all - they're just allowed to as a "proportionate means to a legitimate end"
Theoretically, you could have a men's golf club (i.e. a club which allows women in but that none have joined, not that uncommon - you're unlikely to have a men-only club considered proportionate…) named 'women's golf club', or a women's golf club that's open to anyone but targeted mainly at women (which would be your legal workaround for transwomen, and is the loophole they want closed by issuing this guidance without any real reference to the law…) because - again - you aren't
required to discriminate, you're merely
allowed to.
But because one of the things they'll check when you're sued is "did you follow the EHRC guidance?" and failure to do so will be counted against you, this is now quasi-law, even though it's made up whole cloth by cranks with no democratic accountability. A fun exercise to work through when someone pretends that one of the virtues of our society is something called "rule of law" (weirdly for a society purportedly ruled by law, we seem to come to judgements and then retrofit the laws to fit the judgement, rather than vice-versa…)
>>2423605>trans exclusive Gay uyghur Leftism is real in YookayNo way.
>>2423608No AGP imported 1 trillion BAME bxdies in my city to fight racism. Gays, feminists and EHRC did though.
>>2423608
I love to say it, but you're retarded.
If the cause of this backlash was transgender misdeeds, it would be universal. Instead, we find only Britain has swung around so hard, and only in Britain are liberals in on the backlash too. In the US, there's a conservative-lead backlash. In New Zealand despite the election of a conservative government basically nothing has changed - there's a minor party has put forward a bill to define gender as biological but it's a random private member's bill that probably won't pass (another coalition partner introduced a bill to de-facto repeal the founding treaty of New Zealand which was rejected by 112 votes to 11, they're playing silly buggers down there…), and then pretty much every other developed country has continued to drift in the direction of liberalisation. (See "Tickle vs Giggle", the silliest named legal case ever, where the court - correctly - ruled that a transwoman was being discriminated against by a women-only social media application. No way you'd get that in Britain, with a self-serious thumb on the scale…)
https://youtu.be/5zpfNgNQnIg?feature=sharedin neema parvini's latest video, he discusses the reform party's plans to implement psychometric testing for members, so as to dissuade any "extreme" types from joining. neema sees this as farage's fatal betrayal - and doubles down on his proclomation that he will vote for jeremy corbyn in the next general election, if only for the fact that corbyn appears to actually care about britain, and remains a rebel against the zionist establishment.
>>2423615this is part of the context
>>2423649No it's not. The updated guidance bans trans women from both women's and men's spaces.
Trans women gotta go piss and shit in bushes now according the latest Labour party recommendation.
A trans woman dying in a hospital? Gotta make her stay in a storage cupboard or basement, can't have her on male or female wards.
Don't worry though, post-op trans women can still be housed on male prison wards though!
It's like they've just picked the maximally cruel position for each and every specific scenario.
>>2425213
you imagine 'transgender-ism' as a single ideology, rather than a set of contradictory beliefs, self-interest, and everything else, when really it's quite simple:
something goes wrong when you're in the womb, parts of you are told they're female, and parts of you are told to build a male body. this makes you miserable, so you externally intervene until the sad bit is happy. ezpz. this also explains other things you're not really supposed to talk about, like why MTF is more common than FTM.
this is not the standard position, but this is true on anything: the average 'socialist' radical wants things that would've been perfectly at home in Edward Heath's tory party, yet it doesn't invalidate scientific socialism. you can make any position look idiotic by judging it based on what happens downstream of twitter discourse - Richard Dawkins is a perfectly good biologist who's repeatedly made an arse of himself by tweeting.
you throw the baby out with the bathwater because you don't like these people and because you allow yourself to be marinated in ragebait.
you're willing to defend british bourgeois feminism (actually, it's sexist to mock the aktion-t4 chancellor for crying - rich white lady who's never said anything about diane abbot being treated like shit, for the observer.) and britain's feral press because they're all in on attacking weirdos you don't like on the internet. idiotic.
my practical advice is: get a hobby. my secondary advice is: stop being british.
>>2425307i should clarify: the real material phenomenon is quite simple. the current "movement", if you like, is basically a freakshow like you'll find for anything on the internet. i'm making a 1:1 comparison here: there's an underlying medical condition, the way you treat it is basically to follow the most liberal healthcare norms, and all of this is very materially obvious.
xenogenders or neopronouns or whatever are for extremely online people, you notice them because we're extremely online, but you're not pedantic enough to sub-divide them. you put them in the same bucket labelled "freaks". when you see stupid discourse between 'theyfabs' and transwomen, you put it down to some incoherence in the ideology and go "freaks" rather than, again, looking at the details. (which are, in themselves, fun and fascinating. forgive my glibness: women pretending to be trans, who clearly see transwomen as men, but who aren't part of the social group that is "TERFs".)
they're all a total sideshow to what's happening in any case - you're mad about them, but the supreme court has fuck all to say about any of this online bullshit. they've got a much narrower focus: the aim of the supreme court and the EHRC is to drive adult transgender people out of public life. you support this because you don't like them. i find this shameful and corrupt for the same reason i find practically everything else that happens in this country shameful and corrupt: because it's shameful, corrupt, and
internationally anomalous. - you won't find me defending the way in which we've nationalized the railways
taking over the free bit but leaving private sector train-landlords in place either!
>>2425424i miss when we had care in the community instead of you people having to find human interaction on the internet.
>>2425429>Also use the report button next timeLike we haven't spent 6+ months doing so to exactly 0 response. Fuck off jannie cunt faggot.
>>2425545but snt it the government that is also arresting people for criticising asylum seeker policies? 🤔
what if two things can be true at once - the government wants you to shut up about migrants AND israel?
>>2425558im sure we would get along in a wetherspoons. this forum is just a toxic outlet tbh 😮💨 but regardless, i dont mean any bother - just want to say that things are more complex than either the mainstream left and right portray it. i would hope you agree.
>>2425564theres no need for all this now, is there? stop playing the hard man just because youre behind a screen.
>>2425587>You are literally a nazi"literally" or figuratively?
>why do you believe we'd get along in a spoons of all fucking places.because real life isnt the internet. and maybe im not the monster you imagine i am, simply because we disagree. im sure you have family and friends you disagree with, too. if we sat down and had a pint, we would probably still disagree, but we could see the reason in each other's argument.
>>2425605you're a passive aggressive little prick, and i'm fucking tired of it, you can go shove it somewhere else, preferably on your nazi corner
>>2425571i'm "playing the hard man" because i'm sick of you peddling your bullshit
>>2425637Honest question: why are you lot obsessed with gang rape?
The fact that they're Muslim isn't an excuse. Come on, what gives?
>>2425640Why are you lot obsessed with importing gang rapists? Do you honestly think you can turn these 7th century death cult worshipping barbarians into loyal comrades who will join you in your glourious revolution to overthrow the racist colonialist Nazi chud regime?
Spoiler alert, they hate you, think you're filthy Kafir and you're getting chucked off a rooftop along with the "chuds"
Update: its now AT LEAST 365 people arrested today for saying they oppose genocide & support Palestine Action.
>>2425605>leftoids pretend to be all caring and compassionate, then the mask comes off and you screech about killing people Would love there to be a revolution purely so people who say shit like this can cry "so much for the tolerant left" while they get shot into a shallow grave by Communists and Anarchists.
Leftists have never tolerated Nazi shit, and never will.
>>2425707Wonder how many will be charged under the Terrorism Act.
They will literally be political prisoners, no small irony considering they live in a democracy.
>>2425721not really; anarchists are either proto-fascists or liberals waiting to betray communists. george orwell is one of the world's greatest anticommunists for a reason:
>In 1949, shortly before he died, the English author George Orwell prepared a list of notable writers and other people he considered to be unsuitable as possible writers for the anti-communist propaganda activities of the Information Research Department, a secret propaganda organisation of the British state under the Foreign Office.https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Orwell%27s_listmy own research further shows that anarchism and communism have separate histories, with anarchists coming out of the french left and communism coming out of england's utopian socialism. marx makes comment here:
>In the Ricardian period of Political Economy there arises the opposition to it, namely, Communism (Owen) and Socialism (Fourier and Saint-Simon).https://www.marxists.org/archive/marx/works/1863/theories-surplus-value/post-ricardian.htmwe know that marx is also entirely inspired by english political economy, including anglo-americans like benjamin franklin, since they are the ones who found a labour theory of value, rather than the physiocracy of the french. marx does not praise the french revolution much (except in its content as the expression of class war), but praises the US civil war most exceedingly (which was obviously an effort of anglo-america against the european old world). marx also said that england is the most civilised country in the world, is capable of achieving a revolution by purely peaceful means. so i see marx as a mostly "english" figure (rebuking lenin's attribution of "french socialism" to his character), but perhaps i am mistaken.
>>2425731even the US is beginning to erase its free speech for the sake of israel.
>>2425752The account is run by her press secretary and the language used was formerly constrained to the party line.
She's openly expressing socialist sympathies whilst deliberately antagonising the leadership. Not even Corbyn uses the word reactionary.
>>2425746>even the US is beginning to erase its free speech for the sake of israel.Terror charges set a new precedent; formerly they were anti-protest bills or public order offences. From the state's perspective this risks devaluing the legislation and turning free speech into a terror charge by conflating the two. Without a retreat on the issue by the home secretary or within the courts, there's a likelihood that this will be repeated for other legitimate protest groups be them Palestinian or otherwise.
The British state is actually beginning to crack down on political dissent and imprisoning individuals for non-extremist tendencies and beliefs. Whereas the US has the anti-boycott bill, the use of the terror act is something else entirely as it legislates the arrival of the intelligence services for surveillance orders.
The political landscape in five years time may well be defined by the use of barbed wire if this continues.
>>2425417Name some instances where multiculturalism solved a problem
you can't
>>2426085Bordiga once said that even as committed Communists, and even if we are anti-electoralist and don't stand in elections ourselves, that it is still worth voting for the best left wing party standing in any election because any reforms they manage to pass will ease the transition to a socialist economy and model of society when the time comes.
Obviously if there is no left wing party at all standing in an election then there's no point voting because all options will only worsen material conditions and make the transition to socialism harder.
i half wish there was a british-resident-immigrant richard hanania.
basically: he's a yank autism score-obsessive racist who's such an autism score obsessive racist that he becomes interesting because unlike the left, he's able to go "yeah, right-wing voters are actually just retarded, the right has a human capital problem" without it feeling like smug liberalism, and then you can go "well, i don't agree with everything, but the right are retarded and your pro-immigration racism is at least novel"
i've read too much of him lately and he's got some good theories. like: the right are tribal, the left are ideological. thus, the right will bend over backwards to justify anything trump/farage does even when it contradicts their supposed ideology (farage for nationalising greggs!) while the left are ideological (imagine the chaos if Your Party is anti-trans…), the right believe in conspiracy theories, the left believe in structural forces (he thinks they're incorrect to do so, but it's a serious set of testable hypotheses, unlike "the clintons did it"), the average voter for both sides watches TV, but generally speaking the right are TV-viewers and the left read - hence they care about ideas, while the right prefer soap-opera nonsense politics. The smart people on the right grift the hell out of their idiot-supporters (farage gold!) while the left, if not without grifters, usually looks more like Novara or something where they're not selling you nothing.
but he's US-based and US-focused, so his examples aren't in my area of expertise. a british substitute would be nice. he needs to be an immigrant though, not an oxbridge cunt with a wanker accent. that'd be even more immediately disqualifying than being mentally retarded.
>>2426402so I.Q. = intelligence?
and low intelligence = tribalism?
where does that leave certain minorities who prefer group loyalty over liberal, metrpolitan openness, then?
>>24264081. no
2. all humans are tribal, just like all dogs are pack animals. nonetheless, you're definitely more of an afghan hound than a border collie. (translation: you are low autism score)
3. 'certain minorities' is nonsense phrasing. you're not getting rid of rishi sunak just because he's brown, sorry. his autism score is higher than yours.
and he's gotta be like 105 tops if we're going to deport any minorities, we should be picking out anti-immigration white english region-by-region and sending them off to pitcairn island. (nonces per capita go down there, retards per capita go down at home, it's a win-win)
say, i could get into this… >>2426426a small number of people really are serious about it and want high autism score Indians over low autism score whites (in the US context) and I find them fascinating. as a good leftist I naturally disagree with them on a lot, but they're not
stupid like most rightists. you could, in theory, even meet them half way by going all milton-friedman UBI-as-least-bad welfare.
but imagine if we replaced every reform voter with a good CPC cadre with double the I.Q. …
>>2426402Richard Banania is funny but you put too much though into him and that whole "pro-EHC" sphere. Not only because they are all underachiever slopstackers larping as Elon Musk (who actually made things as much as i dislike him) but they're either unprincipled, lying reactionaries like Steve Sailer or funny but useless proffesional contrarians like Mr Banania.
They are not trustful or reliable people at all. And it's not like they're influencial people with a far-reaching audience either. Joe Rogan openly post-truth conspiraslop retardation did more to help the far-right than Steve Sailer did in his entire career.
>>2426402Yeah exactly this.
Richard Hanania started out from an I.Q/ ethnogenetic perspective like Sailer and co and came to the conclusion that if we're to be serious about this whole intelligence thing then ideal ideal ubermensch should be an immigrant tech porky who votes democrat and is either a lolbert or a socially liberal small government government capitalist. This is the inherent tension in racial nationalisms, because racist justify chauvinism by pointing out to great achievements of their race but Merit is by nature universal and global instead of parochial. I am ideologically opposed to Spengler but even he noticed this through his distinction between Culture and Civilization.
>>2426419>I.Q. ≠ intelligencethen why bring it up?
>everyone is tribalthen why bring it up?
more nonsense.
>>2426421anything by mike leigh
his best films are "secrets and lies", "naked" and "meanwhile".
>>2426431>Merit is by nature universal and global instead of parochialonly when you measure "merit" by income. the USSR used to make normal people celebrated instead of reproducing an incestuous and intrusive aristocracy.
>>2426430high I.Q. people are typically specialists, so fail in day-to-day competency. thats why a division of labour has to be supplicated by social labour; and why these types have to rationalise a slave class to wipe their ass instead of seeing the value in bring 100 I.Q. or even 80 I.Q.
>>2426434EHC are not right-wing populists. right-wing populists appeal to the peasantry.
>>2426421Whilst Mike Leigh (who directed Naked) is associated with socialism / kitchen sink dramas, he does have a varied filmography well worth watching. Secrets & Lies is a powerful drama with an emphasis on different class dynamics between family members; he has a film about the Peterloo massacre (Peterloo 2018).
The ultimate socialist filmmaker in Britain is Ken Loach - from what I've seen, i'd particularly recommend Kes (education system / job prospects), The Wind That Shakes the Barley (Irish resistance against the British / leftist infighting), Sweet Sixteen (teenage drug trading in Scotland).
if… (1968) is a drama film about rebelling against social hierarchy (and privilege) in an English boarding school. Not explicitly socialist but it has an anarchistic spirit. Would recommend going into it blind, one of the few examples where it is truly difficult to imagine a film ending like that would be made today
There is a 3 episode TV series called A Very British Coup (available on 4od) about the difficulties a socialist politician faces from the establishment when he becomes Prime Minister.
Recent films include:
Bait (2019), focusing on tension between the working class in a Cornwall holiday town and the middle-class holidaygoers.
Pride (2014), based on a true story where LGBT activists raise money for a Welsh mineworkers union who are reluctant to be associated with the activists; it's a surpringly heartwarming and inspiring watch.
>>2426439I'm not talking about income, but rather from a slave/master dialectic inherent in the concept of "Merit/Prestige"
Music theody, for example, doesn't have that much real life practical usage, but white supremacists will keep doling out people like Beethoven because music is universally acknowledged and respected by every race, and thus excelling in Music confers a status symbol.
Fields that only specific races do, like hockey or yoga or astrology, will never be brought up in discussion about superiority, because it does not bring you recognition from Others (i.e people outside your group) therefore it cannot be a Merit but simply a peculiarity.
Or to put it in metaphor; a kid with good grades is considered prestigious, because everyone else recognize it as something valuable. A kid who can insert an entire watermelon through his nostrils is not considered prestigious, because nobody else recognize doing that as something valuable. In fact that kid might get bullied for standing out. Much like how whites are teased for having uniquely tasteless cuisine, or how indians are bullied for being the only people in the world who use cow shit as cleaning solution
>>2426449>this is englandYes, was going to recommend it but must've slipped my mind mid-post. One of the most empathetic movies ever made.
The TV show is very good and worth watching as well (culminating with an incredibly powerful and affecting table conversation) but takes a much more ensemble approach with a wide range of tones.
>>2426450yes, well, universal standards exist, and can be measured. i dont dispute merit or intelligence, but i would say that they cannot be determined by a vulgar class hierarchy which just becomes a plutocracy. a status economy is actually a rival to plutocracy (aristocracy vs oligarchy), which is why the right feel resentment that the left will always capture elite signifiers, which leaves the right appealing to fellow peasants for support, rather than "woke" elites or whatever. being subversive is cool; this has been the norm since the early 20th century.
>>2426452yes, i like that they treated combo as a broken man rather than a snarling villain. most types like him have a dark past.
>>2426476tim roth was also in meantime (1983)
i saw one episode of "tin star" on sky once and it seemed good. anyone seen the show?
>>2426441>if… (1968) is a drama film about rebelling against social hierarchy (and privilege) in an English boarding school. Not explicitly socialist but it has an anarchistic spirit. Would recommend going into it blind, one of the few examples where it is truly difficult to imagine a film ending like that would be made todayRemember when i caught this as a kid on late night Film4, mad a film could ever end like this lmfao. very based though.
>There is a 3 episode TV series called A Very British Coup (available on 4od) about the difficulties a socialist politician faces from the establishment when he becomes Prime Minister.it's also on YT for those who don't wanna make a c4 account.
Coinbase made a pretty good satirical ad of the UK
https://youtu.be/l0bmJlrhRg4?si=a_yPf_T4ReTvPrB3A shame they used it to shill their crap product.
>>2426646why does he look like time heidecker though
>>2427807my british nanny looks like this and says this
>>2427825Ya I don't think so
If there's not some news escaping your mental asylum of an island, I forget your existence
>>2427072This is bleeding funny tho
The americans had the idea of sending white people to "appease" or whatever the word is the violent pigs.
Now, the brits in their desperation send granma to the front of the line.
Recession 2: Electric Boogaloo
https://archive.is/0PzsWUK employers cut back hiring over labour and tax cost fears
>The central bank said last week that it judged underlying employment growth to have been around zero since the end of last year. This was weaker than could be explained by the state of the economy, and was likely to be partly due to the increase in NICs driving up labour costs. Special mention to this line:
>Kate Shoesmith, Rec deputy chief executive, said employers in low-wage sectors were “pausing due to cost pressures and uncertainty around employment law”, and warned it would take “co-ordinated action” from the government and the Bank of England (BoE) to underpin a recovery. I.e. Economic downturn is presented as the result of labour cost issues in
low-wage sectors, it simply being given that these businesses cannot succeed without thriving off the low-pay exploitation and poverty of a certain class of British workers
https://www.wsws.org/en/articles/2025/08/11/qcjy-a11.htmlFight Starmer’s police state—Build a movement in the working class!Decent WSWS article on the arrests and the state of political activity, but there's an interesting bit at the end:
<As the SEP wrote in response to Palestine Action’s proscription, “The defence of fundamental democratic rights, workers’ living standards and the fight against genocide and war is only possible through the adoption of a new axis of struggle—socialist internationalism.”>socialist internationalismThe SEP is founded on the principles of the ICFI which is the fourth international, but the call for a general socialist internationalism is tantamount to a reoritentation and a recognition of the
general struggle that must be waged. In short, rather than their parochial district view of global rank-and-file committees and attempts to gatekeep through their dwarf-like party apparatus, they seem to have seen the crepuscular light that political capital must be expended in service of simply constituting the workers movement without dogmatic stricture in order to build a mass-movement proper.
If you are interested in joining an actual socialist party and fighting for change, sign up for the SEP UK.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cj0y9673rjnoBBC did a writeup on the letby case. istg the only reason she's still in prison is to save the careers of some bobo fucks and doctor scum within our all-but-privatized NHS.
The parents of these babies are scum too, scum of the scum, all of them need to be sent to jail for whatever amount of time the courts decided for Letby.
>>2428810>Anyone got that documentary of those Bristol Lads that smashed up an Israeli Arms Factory back in 2014??https://www.nytimes.com/2024/08/13/world/europe/israeli-arms-company-elbit-break-in.htmlThis one? I don't know the documentary, any memory of who made it?
There was iirc a documentary around the campaign against the EDO factory in brighton which culminated in that factory being smashed up, by bristol people actually. truly the home of the smashies.
>>2427886>crepuscular light Not the anon,
I'm working in the evening ways too much to enjoy the evening crepuscular light . Then I stay up too late, till 12.30AM and miss the crepuscular light the next morning. :(
>If you are interested in joining an actual socialist party and fighting for change, sign up for the SEP UK.What do they do, though? It seems like every time there's a strike or something, some old bearded bastards crawl out of the woodwork on social media to share articles saying why the union leadership is useless, and we need better strategy and organisational. But it doesn't seem like they've set one up? Do they turn up to picket lines? Talk to people there? Start workers groups?.not saying they dont. But if denunciation of sellouts is the sum total of your activity you'd better off forgetting about politics and thinking about the next series of the Boys/Dexter/whatever.
For example, there's a riders meet up in Edinburgh been advertised on the deliveroo rider subreddit at the moment. I think it's autonomist Marxists, "workers enquiry" types, who've set it up. Do SEP do anything like that in workplaces?
So in other words, what does
>fighting for change mean ? Everyone says they're doing that.
>>2428502They have adapted to the idea of a need for a condition of general solidarity, and that in order to build an effective party base they must first begin winning over the members of these movements rather than attempting to ideologically gatekeep them through the limited control of their news outlet.
No other British socialist party has a properly internationalist outlook, and those that do lack the party apparatus abroad unlike the SEP who have parties in America, Australia, and Europe.
In short, they have finally got with the fucking times. If you want to join a socialist party firmly rooted in the twenty first century, I recommend joining the SEP UK.
>>2429425Join them and find out, before I left in 2020 due to life shit they would talk to workers and try to organise within their work place outside of union control.
>Everyone says they're doing thatIn my mind, they are the only true socialist party in the UK - not according to their ideological stricture, but because they are the only ones who have adapted to the requirements of organising post-millenium.
Every other socialist party within Britain has devolved into either a front for a pressure group or a rug-merchant's bazaar who have no capable outlook, who have no interest in actually educating workers and become the petty domains and fiefdoms of their local management circuit.
>>2429768Literally the final line quoted here:
>>2416841Your Party are the semi-reformist dregs of a spent electoral force. Broad popular appeal of a bourgeois democratic party means nothing considering the same electorate which would mobilise behind Corbyn spent 14 years foisting upon themselves the class rule of austerity and militarism through the Conservatives. They are the symptom, not the solution.
>>2429757Your Party represent the ailing ambitions of a fractured coalition of electoral interests of British workers who simply wish to secure for themselves once more their position in the post-war global division of wealth. Corbyn's party believes its only redress to the injustices of austerity can be mobilised through Parliament, and are in that sense as quoted just attempts from within the bourgeois political structure to reform itself.
The distinction is this: Corbyn and the Your party candidate members will speak of the workers, the SEP and the WSWS will instead speak of the Proletariat. This distinction is vital, as one is nothing more than a reactionary sentiment posed under the banner of a social democratic message, the other on the contrary being the constitution and mobilisation of a properly socialist party.
The British electoral landscape will sink over the next few years into a progressively more reactionary one: Your Party are the dying gasp and terminal offshoot of an evolutionary dead-end for the British social democratic system and its ideals. Worsening international political-economic conditions, doubled defence spending, and the final throes in the beginning and end of stripping the welfare state to its bare minimum are just part of why this must happen.
I do not mean this in an attempt to recruit anyone but merely to point out the distinction: the SEP have now shifted from that particular form of political praxis unique to all socialist parties their size - for want of a better term, the petty administration and gatekeeping by would-be middle-class bourgeois commisars - to educating and mobilising on the basis if not in overt solidarity, then in recognition of the stage of international struggle.
Again, if you would like to join a party which isn't centred around ritualized dogma and anarchronisms, go for the SEP. Read the perspective section on the WSWS as well as articles centred on British politics and you will soon understand why: their writers are the only ones who actually attempt to educate and not merely propagandise. I say this as the stakes have shifted significantly, as the mass arrest at the PA demonstration has demonstrated that the British state is beginning to engage in overt political repression through implicit means, specifically the Terror Act.
The only basis on which this can be resisted is through a socialist party with an internal and international party apparatus. However much you may detest them, they are the only ones who seem to have taken advantage of this unique position. It's laughable that someone has mentioned the CPGB-ML, as they may as well by comparison be relics.
https://archive.is/fLRcJJD Vance to meet Farage and Tory deputy leader Jenrick during Cotswolds visit
<US vice-president will not hold talks with Conservative leader Kemi Badenoch due to ‘conflicting schedules’ Absolute choice bit from the article:
>Taylor Van Kirk, Vance’s press secretary, told the FT the vice-president had “specifically tried to see Kemi Badenoch — a friend of his — but a meeting was not possible due to their conflicting schedules. Any suggestion otherwise is false.”Vance told Badenoch to fuck off
>>2429909I didn't say Marxism is on its last legs or that I disagree with the use of those terms - but the idea proletariat isn't anachronistic is laughable.
If someone isn't already on board with Marxism, you'll have lost them when you start using terms like that
>>2429920On the contrary, the term and its wider contextual significance in the interchange of ideas has slipped so totally from the consciousness of socialists that their moral fixation on workers and less on the absolute unity the concept means, means that the minor parties have fetishized and regressed into a form of social organisation and politics that belongs as much in the 1970s as it does the post-2000s.
Hence why British parties obsess to no end in deploying the term worker when to the wider reader the term has lost all significance: there are British workers, Indonesian workers, US workers. But there is only one proletariat.
If you can't grasp this nuance then stick with your sadly doomed little clique club of radical lifestyle activism. The country is slipping into the portents of corporised fascism as the bourgeoisie (do we still use that term as well?!) consolidate power: it is your choice. Confront them on a national or international basis.
I will not say that they are
the solution, but they are the only one in the running.
>>2429935this unironically, i'm joining and will then be part of the left fringe of the party, try to push them to be as radical as possible
its that simple and you all need to do it to
>>2430403Death to the Bri'ish "people"
but absolutely this is good.
If your best approach is harassment you should not talk to women
You should not interact with anyone really
Also not reading allat but maybe mods should look in here from time to time eh
Just a friendly suggestion
>>2430416This is bound to just be another thing that Tommy Robinson is going to latch on to
>release the statistics of ethnicities arrested for cat calling!and when thats refused the assumption will be they’re all migrants from muslim countries and the police should be arresting them but are now protecting them thus another travelodge needs to be burnt
>>2430467 (me)
Also whatever this is
>>>/siberia/698352 >>2430111>NY PostGarbage "journalism".
Also good, even according to that is written in there it wasnt men who hit on them, but harassed, honked shouted at from cars. Moids need to learn how to behave in polite society.
>>2429935>>2430149You are a fucking idiot and not a Marxist if you think joining yet another social-democratic party will help anything. Go on, join it, waste your time and sap the people's revolutionary energy more and more you lapdogs. It will go the same way as every social fascist party in history, another party of the bourgeois.
>>2429800Another worthless trot microparty posturing as the saviour for the proletariat when all you'll do is sell newspapers. You won't do shit because you aren't seriously engaging with the working class you live around. What's your actual plan for revolution? What are the steps you're going to take? How are you going to fight the state? All you trot scum won't ever get a fucking day into revolution before the state's security forces drive you into the ground. On top of this you are imperialists who don't support determination for Wales and Scotland. Stop this student larp and join a real party.
Why doesn't England have a real Marxist-Leninist (and certainly not a Maoist) organization? Take your fingers out of your ears and actually work with communities and build revolutionary cells, not do this worthless trotskyite wank. All you're doing is pulling more and more people who would otherwise be forming actual revolutionary organisations into your pathetic millenial wank circles. Tell me when you're ready to take military action against the government, otherwise take a knife and plunge it into your obese stomach.
>>2430111There's a trillion things worse the pigs do every day and you get outraged about this? Catching those scum is a much better way to spend their time than pushing people over in protests and arresting people for holding up signs.
>>2430406we get 'destroyed' because when we counterargue, you ignore us.
>>2425307>>2425310hang yourself.
>>2431763It is quite literally just a mailing list; the various socialist gossip groups are thundering between themselves about the potential numbers and rubbing their hands with glee at the idea of siphoning some of the numbers, so they've all collectively deluded themselves into believing that Corbyn's party is the new dawn for the British worker's movement.
The initial numbers (of what is essentially an email register) won't directly translate into the momentum (hah, get it?) and the party will face a crisis of direction if they fuck up the first few stages of publicising their founding principles and issuing respective media memos that encompass their coming electoral strategy.
This is probably why they've stopped updating the figures, as they're now in the next stage of their master plan to turn Britain into an idyllic backyard allotment of kind and respectable jam makers and warm-beer drinking social democrats.
>>2431944What da fuggg did this happen under Thatcher?
>look it up<Retard appointed by the Conservative Minister of Transport in the 60s, under Macmillan>trashed all those connections for the stated purpose of "economic efficiency"KILL ALL TORIES
>>2432007Your united front are woo woo activists who buy natural herb supplements to help with their tik tok ADHD and clean their digital chakras
Call us when you take the lead over Farage in the polls
>>2432016It isn't "the left"; there is no independent body pushing onwards some social democratic dream.
These are the personal political ambitions of individuals who are seeking to monopolise on the conceited interests of an electorate who given the opportunity would prefer the clock be turned back twenty years, to the heights of US imperial finance and cheap gulag Chinese labour.
They, like you, must reconcile with this position: history must continue. You cannot have a partially socialised healthcare system and seek to maintain the hegemony of your consumer power in a bourgeois state centred on the prevailing fiction of a worker's nationalism.
You are not a worker. You are a member of the proletariat.
>>2432016You're not that different from the right wing anyway. You both want the same thing - the bourgeois in charge.
>>2432021The working class and the proletariat are the same thing. This is just unecessary semantics.
>>2432020At scale, sure. Overthrowing capitalism is harder than doing capitalism. But organizing an anticapitalist party is not substantially harder than organising a Scottish or Welsh nationalist party. Even if you want to talk simply advancing anti-capitalist
aesthetics, the organised left does a terrible job - pretty much all of the gain in popularity of the left comes from online LARPers and capitalism undermining itself, rather than anything more organised. Even if we just think of it as selling left-wing entertainment, there's underperformance. (lots of individuals, but no real scaling.)
>>2432021This seems like too high level an abstraction. It may explain why Corbyn can't win, or won't succeed if he does win, but it can't explain why Corbyn's the best we've got.
>>2432032You have a weird mental model of the world. You're shadowboxing fake lifestylists. You don't even notice that a real extremely online lifestylist would recoil at the idea of an autism cure on the NHS because having incurable self-diagnosed autism is part of their personality brand.
>>2432035I don't "want" the bourgeois in charge, but both of us are stuck with it until someone gets rid of them - and people who can't even organize a fan-club for their meme ideology certainly aren't going to overthrow the people who currently run the world, evil and increasingly incompetent though they may be.
>>2432039>Corbyn's the best we gotAnd yet you're complaining it's an abstraction: it is a bourgeois political movement which is fundamentally unrepresentative of the socialist interest, and a vehicle for securing an electoral vote in the vein of every reformist method that has come before.
If you are for socialism, revolutionary socialism, then you are for the constitution of the proletariat not as a national workers movement but as an international force. Conditions may arise in which it is easier to secure the passage of the revolutionary communists goals were Corbyn to come to power, but don't delude yourself or others with the fantasy that his party stands for anything more than the reproduction of existing class relations.
All the rank spectrum of political and ideological reaction which stains the British Parliamentary state - represented in Reform - will eventually mar Corbyn's movement. It will topple beneath its own weight, falling to be pulled apart by the pack of wolves that are the British business interests, in favour of a further and more openly avowed socially fascistic party of the right.
Corbyn's political success would be the equivalent of a tourniquet on a mortal wound.
>>2432050This, but if you have friends who are backing the campaign help them while being upfront about what the end result will be
You do know how to assist a political campaign don't you?
>>2432027>>2432032>Everyone I don't like is a lifestylistOkay what
real movement are you a part of then? Show me your material outcomes.
>>2429800Wanted to respond to this properly;
>Your Party represent the ailing ambitions of a fractured coalition of electoral interests of British workers who simply wish to secure for themselves once more their position in the post-war global division of wealth. Corbyn's party believes its only redress to the injustices of austerity can be mobilised through Parliament, and are in that sense as quoted just attempts from within the bourgeois political structure to reform itself. Yes okay, what is the alternative? All proletarian parties were built out of the fundamental institutions of proletarian self-representation. The issue is that these were initially vulgar. You can call this project many things, vulgar is not one of them.
>The distinction is this: Corbyn and the Your party candidate members will speak of the workers, the SEP and the WSWS will instead speak of the Proletariat. This distinction is vital, as one is nothing more than a reactionary sentiment posed under the banner of a social democratic message, the other on the contrary being the constitution and mobilisation of a properly socialist party. The SEP won't speak to anyone because it is no-one. Every single Trotskyist sect says this. They are fundamentally mentally boxed in by their own dogma that they are unable to produce any outcome regarding the proletariat at any level. At least during the 1970s they had an existing large trade union movement they could do entryism into. Now they have nought.
>The British electoral landscape will sink over the next few years into a progressively more reactionary one: Your Party are the dying gasp and terminal offshoot of an evolutionary dead-end for the British social democratic system and its ideals. Worsening international political-economic conditions, doubled defence spending, and the final throes in the beginning and end of stripping the welfare state to its bare minimum are just part of why this must happen. Yep, which is why it is important that even a social democratic opposition is presented, otherwise we will hungarianise; autocratic conservatives vs market liberals with no scope for anything else.
>I do not mean this in an attempt to recruit anyone but merely to point out the distinction: the SEP have now shifted from that particular form of political praxis unique to all socialist parties their size - for want of a better term, the petty administration and gatekeeping by would-be middle-class bourgeois commisars - to educating and mobilising on the basis if not in overt solidarity, then in recognition of the stage of international struggle. All the SEP have done is make a statement in their paper. I will believe it when I see it.
>Again, if you would like to join a party which isn't centred around ritualized dogma and anarchronisms, go for the SEP. Read the perspective section on the WSWS as well as articles centred on British politics and you will soon understand why: their writers are the only ones who actually attempt to educate and not merely propagandise. I say this as the stakes have shifted significantly, as the mass arrest at the PA demonstration has demonstrated that the British state is beginning to engage in overt political repression through implicit means, specifically the Terror Act. There is literally nothing to back this up. They are a glorified journal. That in of itself is an anarchonism.
>The only basis on which this can be resisted is through a socialist party with an internal and international party apparatus. However much you may detest them, they are the only ones who seem to have taken advantage of this unique position. It's laughable that someone has mentioned the CPGB-ML, as they may as well by comparison be relics.The SEP's international infrastructure is hilariously tiny. They have no role in organising the proletariat in any country. Yanis Varoufakis' Progressive International has achieved more for the cause of communism than them.
>>2432050You overestimate my investment in Corbyn. I highlight him as the best that exists not because it's a standard others should try to measure up to, but because it's such a low standard that it's remarkable that everyone else has fallen short.
It is this structural failure to thrive that I find interesting and disillusioning. The right, almost accidentally, is an international Trump cult. Take any pop-culture phenomenon you want and it's flat everywhere. International culture comes easily in the world of the internet. Look at wplace and find that we live in a mountain of international slop… yet, just about the only thing that remains firmly national is the "international" socialist movement.
Socialism as a vague fandom on the internet, on the other hand, has 'thrived'. It's not even like the entire system is geared against socialism-as-such. It's just that socialists themselves are incredibly crummy organizers. Its hilarious people are coming out of the woodwork to declare Corbyn, Sultana, and 700,000 people as "Lifestylists", "petit-bourgeois", "imperialists", "unproletarian", "imperialist" and every other dumb criticism I can imagine leveled at it. At least when he was leader of Labour you could make n argument about structures but now, YOU get to decide the fucking structure. Build the party from the bottom up. Worried about electoralism? Then lead it away from electoralism! But I dont think the actual issues are the things I have stated. I think the issue is that people are scared their own sect is not going to be the domineering force. That they wont have the control to prescribe their specific longhouse ideology. They might have to work and cooperate and build with other people. It's fucking pathetic. You can critique social democracy or democratic socialism or all of these people all you like, but fundamentally they will achieve more in a week than any trotskyist, stalinist, maoist or otherwise sect has achieved since the fall of the USSR.
>>2432050Take your finger out your cunt and stop with this middle class intellectual wank. I can't even begin to fathom what this horseshit about workers not being proletarian came from, but if it was Capital I certainly missed that part. Have some self awareness and take a listen to how out of touch you sound.
>>2432164Are you concern trolling? This is a communist website. We want communism, not capitalism with a nice coat of paint. I'm sure the Corbyn party would make things better for workers, that's not the point. They aren't going to get us a milimetre closer to Communism or even dictatorship of the proletariat, because that's not the party's aim!
Changing capitalism from the inside has never worked and never will work because you're trying to alter the base through just a tiny part of the superstructure (the official political system). The base will always change you before you can change it, and if they think you are too dangerous they will kill you off and then its violent revolution anyway but this time you are 1000% less prepared for it.
Go on, join the party, in fact it probably represents you well. You're a bourgeois socialist. Just don't be suprised that Marxists hate you.
>>2432227The point being: you have a limited time after a tourniquet is applied to act before you bleed out from hemorrhaging
>>2432286>Middle class intellectual wank"…without revolutionary theory there can be no revolutionary movement"
>>2432382if you had to put a time on it, when do you think your party (no, not that one…) will be worthy of anything but derision? 2026? 2030? 2525?
(i would be nice and pick the most successful one and assume you're in it, but none stand out as worth anything…)
>>2433248us scousers tend to be like this
>>2432404"proletariat" is a latin term meaning "those who have children", referring to the poor who breed to supply the state with children, which is further contextualised to the 19th century working class, of victorian england. anyone using the term "proletariat" today is a larper - same way "bourgeoisie" is extrapolated from the urban dwelling "burghers". it has no historical significance today. again, its thankful to escape the marxist cult.
>>2432016what is "right-wing" about markets? capital is an anti-market, as mark fisher writes. as a centre-left liberal myself, i will give you a liberal sketch of marx to ease you into your own common sense: marx separates commodity circulation (C-M-C) from capital accumulation (M-C-M') by the aristotelian framework of "economy" vs "chrematistics":
>zur kritik der politischen ökonomie, chapter 3, section a, footnote 17>capital, vol. 1, chapter 4, footnote 6marx further praises commodity exchange here:
>This sphere that we are deserting, within whose boundaries the sale and purchase of labour-power goes on, is in fact a very Eden of the innate rights of man. There alone rule Freedom, Equality, Property and Bentham. Freedom, because both buyer and seller of a commodity, say of labour-power, are constrained only by their own free will. They contract as free agents, and the agreement they come to, is but the form in which they give legal expression to their common will. Equality, because each enters into relation with the other, as with a simple owner of commodities, and they exchange equivalent for equivalent. Property, because each disposes only of what is his own. And Bentham, because each looks only to himself. The only force that brings them together and puts them in relation with each other, is the selfishness, the gain and the private interests of each. Each looks to himself only, and no one troubles himself about the rest, and just because they do so, do they all, in accordance with the pre-established harmony of things, or under the auspices of an all-shrewd providence, work together to their mutual advantage, for the common weal and in the interest of all.https://www.marxists.org/archive/marx/works/1867-c1/ch06.htmand further speaks of "self-earned" precapitalist property being replaced by capitalist property here:
>Self-earned private property, that is based, so to say, on the fusing together of the isolated, independent labouring individual with the conditions of his labour, is supplanted by capitalistic private property, which rests on exploitation of the nominally free labour of others, i.e., on wage labour.https://www.marxists.org/archive/marx/works/1867-c1/ch32.htm#n1this form of self-earned property would be understood by john locke as legitimated by the mixture of labour and nature, whereby man establishes property. this is the theoretical basis of liberalism: self-ownership and the rightful property of one's own labour (with the british school of political economy founding and expounding upon the labour theory of value from a common protestant symptom). many anarchists are still liberal in their orientations, so can be tolerable on this question. there are also various sorts of "market socialists" which might interest you. dont be afraid of leaving the marxist church. serve truth above all idols.
>>2433296They're quoting the etymological roots because they believe it will explain everything.
Unfortunately, it cannot explain why they have shit for brains
>>2433296>For starters bourgeoisie wasn't "extrapolated" from anything, in French it referred to the urban elite.yes, so the term was broadened to describe an international character of a particular personage, which would be validly described as extrapolation, since it is projecting something over the world.
>The idle who make money off capital.you mean "capitalists" then, not your jargon.
>Likewise for Proletarian simple meant "those who owned little to no property" in ancient Rome.that is not the root meaning:
<The proletariat (/ˌproʊlɪˈtɛəriət/; from Latin proletarius 'producing offspring')so proletarians are "those who produce offspring"
>It being transposed to mean wage-earners, like in victorian england ot contemporary Guinea-Bissau makes sense and is coherent.no it isnt, as the etymology shows. why not just refer to "workers" and "capitalists" instead of larping?
>Take your semantic sophistry somewhere else.stop using words you dont understand.
>>2433318the etymology of a word describes its meaning, so the only way to have grammatical intelligibility is indeed by tracing the roots of words and phrases. its weird how anti-intellectual people become when you merely spotlight their inauthentic dogmatism.
>>2433320the labour party is not in any way "social democratic"
>>2433321talking to yourself?
>>2433337How do you unironicly not understand how language works?
Again. 18+ website.
>>2433375>Britain has a failed as a nation-building project like Yugoslavia or the USSR. It will implode in the same way: The biggest country will decide that its vassals are actually ripping it offBritain's vassals are objectively ripping it off. As were the Soviet Republics like Estonia, Latvia, Azerbaijan etc. who benefitted greatly from the USSR, to the detriment of Russians, but still had the impudence to claim oppression and bail from the union with maximum theatrics in '91.
Hopefully if the Scottish ever try the same we can learn from the mistakes of others and not permit their newly formed pissant state to become a glorified military base for hostile foreign powers.
>>2433391It only 'changes' if you're an idiot who accepts any mong calling themselves a socdem as a socdem, at which point you're going to have to swallow the fact that Labour is constitutionally
not socdem, but
democratic socialist.
Frankly, I wouldn't insult any ideology by tying it to this government. Even Blairism was more imaginative. Blair had more legislative achievements in his first 100 days than this government is going to get in their entire 4 year term.
>>2433400England is already a host to military bases for a foreign hostile power: the USA. The USA has screwed England and its stupid empire over every single chance it's got, and England has sat down and taken it like a good vassal. America tricked England into becoming the only country ever to
abandon the independent capability to launch satellites. America almost tricked Britain out of being a nuclear power, and then at the last moment tricked it out of being an
indepndent nuclear power. Now Britain depends on America for nuclear missiles (Britain makes the warheads - badly - domestically) and America sends the missiles
that don't work. There hasn't been a successful Trident test-launch in over a decade! America pushed countries not to loan Britain money in the 1970s so it'd have to go to the IMF. America took over Britain's empire post-war… Need I go on?
Any claim to Scottish exploitation of England is rendered risible by the realities of north sea oil. We live in the worst of all possible worlds, where Scotland's oil was handed off - 90% to American oil companies, 10% in tax cuts to rich wankers - to the detriment of real industry Britain-wide. If you look at it nationally, England rinsed Scotland and America rinsed England, if you look at it in class terms, the bourgeoisie rinsed everybody.
>>2433402if im wrong, show me how im wrong.
ive already proven you wrong, which is why are now cowering begind sageposts.
Reminder that this was the position in the 1970s.
>It must be concluded therefore that large revenues and balance of payments gains would indeed accrue to a Scottish Government in the event of independence
>Undoubtedly this would banish any anxieties the Government might have had about its budgetary position or its balance of payments. The country would tend to be in chronic surplus to a quite embarrassing degree and its currency would become the hardest in Europe, with the exception perhaps of the Norwegian kroner. Just as deposed monarchs and African leaders have in the past used the Swiss franc as a haven of security, so now would the Scottish pound be seen as a good hedge against inflation and devaluation and the Scottish banks could expect to find themselves inundated with a speculative inflow of foreign funds.
>The SNP countered these figures by claiming that North Sea oil should by 1980 be yielding a Government revenue of approximately £800m… Up to now much of the Scottish public may have regarded the SNP figures as pretty wild and they have been publicly condemned as such by Ministers…
>today, following the huge increase in international oil prices of recent months the corresponding figures are in the range of £1,500m. to over £3,000m. Thus, all that is wrong now with the SNP estimate is that it is far too low; there is a prospect of Government oil revenues in 1980 which could greatly exceed the present Government revenue in Scotland from all sources and could even be comparable in size to the whole of the Scottish national income in 1970.
Well, surely Scotland OWES England, right? After all, what about all the spending before oil! Surely the oil just paid of all that debt, right?
>Output per head in most sectors of Scottish industry is well below European levels. This is largely because the British economy has invested much less than other European countries over the last 25 years.
>As an independent state, Scotland’s balance of payments position would enable her to break out of the ‘stop-go’ cycle and a sustained rate of growth could be planned on the basis that it could be carried on for at least a decade.
>Scottish GDP per head is only 70 per cent of the European average, the unemployment and emigration rates among the highest and the country regarded by the EEC as one of its worst problem regions…
Oh.
Once you understand how badly north sea oil was blundered, you'll never stop seething. Scotland could've been Norway and England could've maintained some semblance of productive industry. (because the GBP wouldn't have become overvalued due to oil) Instead, Scotland is fucked and England is fucked. The money was completely pissed up the wall on subsidizing de-industrialization. Only Venezuela - and even there, I hesitate - has blundered a natural boon so badly.
>>2433423grammar is logical and depends upon fixed attributes of words (which grant them conditional definitions in the first place, since if we associated the same words with different meanings, we eventually come to speak different languages - "black" cannot also mean "blue" for example, lest both lose their meaning, so this is logic, based in the law of identity; spelling further applies this function of distinction - two words can be synonyms, but cannot be spelled the same despite sharing the same meaning, so this would be akin to algebraic formulation). lets take prefixes and suffixes. if i apply a negative prefix to a word: non-, un-, mal-, i thereby denote a negative characteristic, such as is the case of negative mathematical functions applied to variables. grammar is a logic system; this is what grants it intelligibility, and further, connotation, by words sharing name-groups. what allows for the naming of a word for example? etymology, based in an original root language. english for example is based in greek, latin and german, so many words are traced back to these origins. etymology then confers the history and meaning of a word as it comes to be used. the reason why meaning in language can be connoted is precisely due to this sharing of name-groups due to etymology. the proper use of terms is important for communication.
also, you havent quite explained how im wrong.
>>2433444confucius was anti-semiotic by pointing to the immediacy of objects beyond the medium of signification. this is his antisocial mysticism, while your mistake is assuming the ahistorical character of terms.
>language is not logicalyes it is. and if not, rebuke my points.
>>2433442>grammar is logical Yes, uh, so you'd say we'd be dealing with logical categories.
Excuse me, but isn't this a Marxist imageboard.
>>2433445You've transcended history by supplanting abstract philosophical schemas in its place and have formed an idealistic totality, which you've then tried to pass off as Marxist.
Fuck off you pathetic bougie little twat.
>>2433451>marxism is opposed to logicthis is your claim? 🤔
>>2433453ive explained how language is historical and logical and so youve sperged out - and provided no counter-argument, which shows your utter impotence.
>>2433454>Meaning is not a fixed attribute or inherent property.so what are the definitions of words?
>The meaning of a world is completely dependent on its relationship to other words and its various contexts.and how do words connote? by being part of the same name-group. what forms name-groups? etymology.
>>2433446I didn't say it wasn't logical, I said it was not mathematics. I don't think terms are ahistorical, I think they're so contextual that appealing to written history becomes meaningless. If I, personally, always say 'blue' when I mean 'red', you can find me perfectly intelligible when I tell you to stop at the 'blue' (red) light (unless we're in Japan, where - because their color-names map slightly differently to ours - their 'green' lights are quite blue-y.), while knowing that if anyone else says to stop at the blue (blue) light, and you're not aware of any blue lights, you've gotta ask for clarification.
You could perhaps resolve this by insisting my english-with-one-quirk is its own language, but if you do that then everyone's speaking their own language. It's so much easier when X=2
>>2433465>they are not a prioriif i apply a negative prefix to a word, will the meaning of the word be negatively affected henceforth? if yes, then this is an a priori effect, like functions being applied to mathematical variables.
>its all made upsince mathematics is a human invention, can 1+1 ever equal to 3?
>>2433466>logical not mathematicalmaths is applied logic
>I think they're so contextual that appealing to written history becomes meaninglessthe english language can literally be traced back through different sources. that is the context.
>words have different meanings in different culturesyes, as i explained. if we apply different meanings to the same thing then we create different languages.
>everyone speaks their own languageyes and no. we have dialects and accents which form their own slang and terminology and pronounciation. this would become a different language if we used different words. a londoner and a scotsman sound likr they speak different languages but they still use the same words.
>>2433487if i say 'blue' for 'red' (perhaps i'm doing this here, and i'm really saying 'red' for 'blue'?) then looking up the etymology of 'blue' will do you very little good. the relevant and incredibly specific context exists between us, not in the etymology of the words.
thinking of it logically does you little good. why can one be unruly, but not ruly? (because ruly is a non-word that was once a word. logically, there's no reason it can't be a word, indeed, i could make it a word again on a whim, have done so for the purpose of this exercise…)
language is distinguished from mathematics or logic in that it is fuzzy. when you say "likr" i do not throw a syntax error or find myself looking back to the vaguely-english-related old norse
líkr to derive the meaning. (though as luck would have it, that would be a passable strategy in this case), i can infer that it's the most probable word to be used given the surrounding words, that it's the most probable word given e is one step from r on the keyboard, and so on. You haven't accidentally invented a new language through your error, even though you'd bring a mathematical equation to a screeching halt.
>>2433497>Using a prefix on a word is the equivalent of using negation.right, so the meaning of a word is directly related to its grammar. can you remove grammar from language?
>In some languages for example double negation means neutralization. In other language double negation means intensification.which still means that a new state of meaning is applied with the addition of a prefix; so its a formal relationship between variables. if a term can be negated in its prior negation, then its directly arithmetical. so language is logical, yes?
>>2433516>connotation proves that language is illogicalits the opposite. if i say "likr", then "like" is still the *correct* form of the corrupted term. if you agree that correct and incorrect spellings exist, then you submit to the formalism of language. so, where do you think correct spellings come from? name-groups which denote a common root term. this is how linguists theorise history; if two words are similar, they are hypothesised to be inherently related by a common root term or language - look at PIE for example.
>>2433594there is no argument against my position, which is why i only receive replies which confirm my theory further, or mindless insults which attempt to mask impotence.
>>2433684keep sageposting
>>2433860>The Hollantse (German: holländische) Mercurius uses "capitalists" in 1633 and 1654 to refer to owners of capital.https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Capitalismso, wrong again. look under the "etymology" section.
>>2433862>Proletariitheir children were listed as viable property. the truly propertyless were called "capite censi":
>Those who owned 11,000 assēs (coins) or fewer fell below the lowest category for military service, and their children—prōlēs (offspring)—were listed instead of property; hence the name proletarius (producer of offspring). Roman citizen-soldiers paid for their own horses and arms, and fought without payment for the commonwealth, but the only military contribution of a proletarius was his children, the future Roman citizens who could colonize conquered territories. Officially, propertyless citizens were called capite censi because they were "persons registered not as to their property…but simply as to their existence as living individuals, primarily as heads (caput) of a family."https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Proletariat >>2433868You missed out half of this;
> "Capitalism" is derived from capital, which evolved from capitale, a late Latin word based on caput, meaning "head"—which is also the origin of "chattel" and "cattle" in the sense of movable property (only much later to refer only to livestock).So it is actually about having a head which is about capitalists being smart.
>>2434980topkek.
The thing about the map always made me since a kid doubt that spaniard cunt who said he found america though, what did the russians think was there? honestly telling me they never noticed the americas? okay.
>>2434846Hilarious that they still refer to Ukraine as an inter-imperialist war.
Maintaining the 'British Workers' line until the end.
>>2434144I don't put too much weight on the importance of nationalisation to social democracy as such. In any case, what's more interesting is that his motivation was focused on national efficiency rather than on anti-capitalism. (Hence why Steel, for example, was bought at a very generous price. The idea wasn't "the workers will finally own the steel industry, fuck those capitalist blood-suckers!" it was "You're
shit capitalists, you're running this industry into the ground,
government managers will do better. Here's more money than you deserve: go play in the traffic")
>>2434692>>2434405How does this model explain the existence of vestigial social-democratic parties? That is, parties like the SNP 2007-2015 or NZ Labour 1999-2008 which, while unable to shift the dial on the neoliberal macroeconomic consensus, break with it directionally.
e.g. SNP brought back universalist services like free tuition and prescriptions and have (tepidly) raised income tax rates in Scotland (although ultimately the party under Sturgeon turned to neoliberal sludge), NZ Labour brought Air NZ and NZ rail back into
real public ownership, restored a reasonably progressive income tax system, abolished workfare (at the same time Blair was creating it!), created a new combo wealth-fund and pension scheme, restored legal recognition of trade unions (!) and generally ended a stream of radical neoliberal reforms that had run unbroken from 1984-1999.
None of that's radical second coming stuff, it doesn't quite raise to the level of social democracy, but it's a plausible attempt when contrasted with Blair or especially with Starmer, where the enemy was always to their left.
>>2435106well if we look at the stats, its not exactly astronomical, so its a nominal increase but cant harm profits beyond the standard rate (so in the first place, shoplifting is a talking point, not a serious issue). secondly, videos of shoplifting appears to either feature homeless tramps raiding shops or urban youf brazenly and openly picking what they want - so who are shoplifters? lumpen - its not a working class epidemic, so standard of living isnt "causing" an increase of crime - its a simple breakdown of law and order (this is also because police will NOT respond to shoplifting calls, and security guards are not legally able to apprehend shoplifters, so the shoplifters perceive weakness in the system). so to me, its just part of the decline of civility, where theft is normalised (the police similarly refuse to investigate burglaries in london despite us living in a surveilance state). a solution for shoplifting would be to grant security guards extra powers over the resources of a shop so as to be able to kick people out or search them.
>>2435045If the government was remotely competent the first thing it would've done is scrap national insurance and fold it into the income tax system, which you concurrently reform to be less of a baroque nightmare. The current system is a gigantic scam where workers pay NICs but wealthy pensioners, shareholders, landlords, etc, do not. If you did that, you could cut the effective income tax paid by the average worker and still wind up with more revenue (and a much less complex tax system) than before.
But that requires being a little brave:
wealthy pensioners and landlords won't like this. Sure,
workers will like it, and they'll demand to keep their tax cut, and there's more of them… but… it's scary. So instead they took the idiot-coward option: try to find marginal savings from winter fuel payments, disability payments, etc. The problem is that
nobody benefits from that change - workers don't want you freezing their gran or re-running Aktion T4 no matter how you try to sell it. The idiot coward option is also the unpopular option.
The thing about 'Starmerism' is that even as a right-wing government it's a patently stupid one.
I could run a better late-neoliberal early-war-economy shitshow than this.
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