/leftypol/ - Leftist Politically Incorrect

>>2446736
Ok why come prices are predictable

>>2446746
you tell me.

>>2446472
>dude the number 7 isn't actually out there in real physical space, so numbers aren't real
how smith-anon sounds when he breaches his containment thread to complain about the concept of value

>>2446434
the marxist criticism of religion is not "reddit faggotry." Imperial core new atheism was always imperialist and liberal while the marxist criticism of religion was neither imperialist nor liberal. I swear imageboard retards always define everything they don't like as "reddit" with zero evidence.

>>2446234
religion is not simply unfounded supernatural beliefs but a codified and disseminated social system of religious practice based on those beliefs. hunter gatherers do not build churches or write bibles when they eat mushrooms and hallucinate their ancestors.

>>2447102
right, you need faith to feel the presence of value in your life, otherwise its an imaginary concept.

>>2447259
Ok this is just dishonest. You can very easily distinguish between hunter gatherer animism and organized religions because the organized religions define themselves in opposition to animism and paganism. How many times have you heard Muslims talked derisively about the 'idol worshippers' or tradcaths dismissing indigenous spirituality as demon worship

>>2447259
you were right until you flinched at the end:
>The history of early Christianity has notable points of resemblance with the modern working-class movement. Like the latter, Christianity was originally a movement of oppressed people: it first appeared as the religion of slaves and emancipated slaves, of poor people deprived of all rights, of peoples subjugated or dispersed by Rome. Both Christianity and the workers’ socialism preach forthcoming salvation from bondage and misery; Christianity places this salvation in a life beyond, after death, in heaven; socialism places it in this world, in a transformation of society. 
https://www.marxists.org/archive/marx/works/1894/early-christianity/

>>2447103
Current day Marxists are Reddit fags, though.

>>2446472
Either you die with the capitalist mode of production as does everything else or you live through it so we can shoot you in the head. All historical questions are settled.

>>2446346
Lel

Marxists proclaim to be atheists until they see a factory or a warehouse, then they get on their knees and repeat the holy mantra. Work or die, they say, just like the capitalists.

>>2449781
so deep! makes me want to retvrn to a time when medicine didnt even exist

>>2449787
That's what the medicine men are for. But you're right, work or die, you know that's good and progressive because they got it from the Bible.

What if instead of unhappy Mr. Peel it was unhappy Mr. Marx, frustrated that the industrial zeks abandoned the "administration of things" to go hunt and fish instead. Except when he dreamed of his splendid future society he imagined hunting, fishing, herding – what is he, some kind of sack of potato ruraloid? Thankfully we've destroyed those places so we don't have to worry about that anymore and we can worship INDUSTRY our real God.

>>2449797
>But you're right, work or die
yeah thats what life already is like for the immiserated wage worker, its not a matter of opinion :)

>>2449834
Why do you think that utopia is unachievable? The reason we work so much is because of horrific inequality/consumerism, not 'worship of work'

wdhmbt?

>>2449965
Fuck off liberal

>>2449965
>Marx fantasized about a non alienated world where the average person can hunt, fish, and relax all in one day and nobody would be hungry, nobody will suffer, nobody will have unfulfilled wants and everything will exist in abundance.
wow really he just fantasized about it and didn't offer a materialist framework for how to achieve it? did he really just think it would happen because of ideas and willpower?

>>2449781
>Work or die, they say, just like the capitalists
I'd like to point out that this is true for pretty much all life on earth. Birds hunt for food, fish hunt for food, bacteria wiggle around for food, just as humans do. In general, you don't really get to do nothing and survive. There is a criticism to be made about marxist ideology taking on the role of some surrogate religion but this aint it.

>>2450239
I think you make the mistake of thinking of marxists as rigid dogmatists who seek to simply enforce a specific order of things which isn't the case. The primary objective of communists isn't to fulfill a utopian vision pre-prepared and laid out beforehand, marxists precisely oppose such utopian thinking. Rather, it is to neutralize class and continue the development of human society free of it's fetters. Marx doesn't have specific plans for what policies to enact under communism because it is impossible to know the fine particulars, only the general characteristics. That is, a stateless free association of producers. There is no contradiction between this and sustsinable living with the earth.
>(…) so achieving communism is really just a matter of more efficient resource exploitation, higher productivity, better technology, and a more efficient means of distribution than market economies.
You're missing the key difference, detaching from profit driven production for exchange and the search for new markets. Where the capitalist must always expand regardless of need, that isn't the case for the communist. There is no reason why the vast productive forces now in existence cannot be turned to the common good of all people.
Also
>told to work themselves to the bone for the state to build socialism and reap benefits that would never come
Is a silly thing to say considering the massive advances that socialist nations made in regards to quality of life across the board. When people work for socialism, they get benefits.

>>2450239
>That there’s a seemingly infinite supply of resources
wrong
>so achieving communism is really just a matter of more efficient resource exploitation, higher productivity, better technology, and a more efficient means of distribution than market economies.
correct
>In actual fact, the resources on Earth are finite and we’re already running out of them.
correct
>It doesn’t help that Marx’s idea of a communist society is vague and fantastical.
wrong
>It seems to offer an aristocrat’s life for everybody
>correct
>but there’s no way literally everybody can have that life because of basic geospatial limits.
wrong

the key point is:
<a more efficient means of distribution
thats the only problem in advanced states

>just look at all the environmental disasters the Soviets had a hand in
now look at all the environmental disasters capitalists have had a hand in, now compare

and dont forget who is actually doing something about it

>>2452303
>this is just impossible and unrealistic.
25 to 50 years to practical humanoid robots
Suck it up buttercup

Marxist anthropology sucks ass, simple as.

Religion is a medicine, in a small dose it may alleviate ones anxieties, provide a third space and assist one in getting their shit together (sober, mindful, filtering ones mind, involved in the community).

But it may also be a vicious poison that leads one to conspiracy post or bitterly seethe on twitter like a lunatic alienating oneself or to justify hierarchal monarchy (note Catholicism and shi-ism especially).

Religion like capital becomes a problem when it is not de-centralisrd. All it takes is one Muppet like seraphim rose or Ibn Wahab to get their extreme exclusionary interpretation financed by a wealthy landlord or monarch for the whole thing to be used as a tool of oppression. (As is the case with Russian orthodoxy and salafism).

>>2444414
But also, purges of idealists.

>>2443698
>Religion is the opium of "the people"
Well, to follow the analogy: A civic religion, should prove then to be the necessary step to wean the addict from mysticism, into materialism no? That's what one does with opium addicts, wean them off with substitutes (if available), because withdrawal can sometimes be as bad as overdose.

Worse comes to worst and the new system replicates the old, the incompletely emancipated "people" will still follow the leadership like good addicts. And it's a matter of purging only a few up there without impeding the economy with costly internal struggles, like massive purges.

>>2443698
I don't think religion will disappear totally, at a fundamental level religion and by extension, philosophy, is a response to death and the ennui of existence, communism doesn't really claim to solve that question only the material agency and free time for people to give their life meaning, it doesn't claim to give meaning itself.

>>2481931
Also religion will still persist by 'true believers' or 'enthusiasts', alot of religion has ethno-cultural baggage and is an extension of nationalism or racism.

>>2447269
This is, unfortunately, quite true

>>2443698
>Religion is the opium of the people.
No political ideology, however aligned with reality, will serve as replacement opium unless it comes with some kind of immortality pill or whatever (techno-Marxism?). That's just the sad state of things, at least in the West.

>>2443698
>1. Religion is the opium of the people.
>2. Religion justifies an unequal social order.
Wrong. You are neckbeard reddit atheist who revises Marxism-Leninism. The citation also states: Religious suffering is, at one and the same time, the expression of real suffering and a protest against real suffering. Religion is the sigh of the oppressed creature. You are infantile liberal neckbeard athiest who wages war against the sigh of the opressed creature.
>3. The problem of an afterlife gives people something to look forward to after death.
Your nihilistic, sterile neckbeard athiesm could never lead a Long March. Allah teaches that the afterlife is a call to action and entry is earned.
>4. Religion makes a virtue out of suffering.
Proletarian religion makes virtue out of bourgeois suffering. Allah teaches that the greatest virtue is to struggle.
>5. Religion offers the false hope of supernatural intervention to improve current conditions.
Proletarian religion gives bourgeois the real prospect of redemption. Allah will not change material conditions until people change them themselves.
>6. Religion is a form of social control.
Social control is needed because capitalism is anarchic therefore proletarian religion is necessary form of control.
>7. The bourgeoisie and religious authorities also support other more overtly brutal methods of control.
The proletariat also supports brutal methods of control.
>8. The bourgeoisie fund the religious institutions.
The bourgeoisie fund all institutions, neckbeard.
>9. The religious institutions are class-collaborationist and legitimize bourgeois power through ideas like "prosperity gospel."
Proletarian religion legitimizes proletarian power.
>10. Religion is not necessary under socialism or communism.
Wrong. Proletarian religion is necessary to build Communism.
>11. Religion has no purpose if there is no longer class society since its purpose is to justify an unequal social order and to provide the exploited with a coping method with their misery.
Proletarian religion justifies the proletarian order.
>12. With communism and decent working conditions controlled by the workers religion will wither away.
Wrong. Communist China has religion. All Communist States have religion.
>13. Religion creates false consciousness.
Proletarian religion creates class consciousness.
>14. Religion mystifies material phenomena.
Reddit athiests mystify religion.
>15. Religion teaches that human misery is a result of divine will.
Wrong. Allah teaches that misery is the result of injustice and actions of infidel tyrants.

>>2443889
>You could say that about many things, all kinds of entertainment and treats. I remember one American elite called TV/movies "tittytainment" (not because it's sexual, but because the rabble latch onto it and become pacified).
Yes. That is the point Marx made.

>>2444582
>>2444606
>2. Football justifies an unequal social order.
>3. The problem of football coaching gives retired players something to look forward to after death.
>5. Football offers the false hope of supernatural intervention to improve current conditions.
>13. Football creates false consciousness.
>14. Football mystifies material phenomena.
Can you read the post you are making or replaying to?

>>2446756
because they have a stable cost of production at a given level of technological development, assuming equilibrium price and stable currency

>>2446736
so human society isn't worth studying in a scientific way and should be ignored or treated as an extension of physics?

>>2444582
1. Golf is the opium of the bourgeoisie.
2. Golf facilitates the organization of our unequal social order.
3. The problem of golf courses gives retired boomers something to waste money on instead of passing down generational wealth.
4. Golf makes a virtue out of waste.
5. Golf offers the false hope of supernatural intervention to improve current conditions.
6. Golf is a form of social control.
7. The bourgeoisie and country clubs also support other more overtly brutal methods of control.
8. The bourgeoisie fund the country clubs.
9. The country clubs are class-collaborationist and legitimize bourgeois power through ideas like "land management."
10. Golf is not necessary under socialism or communism.
11. Golf has no purpose if there is no longer class society, since its purpose is to facilitate an unequal social order and to provide the treatlers with a money pit to minimize wealth trickling down.
12. With communism and decent working conditions controlled by the workers, golf will be swiftly abolished.
13. Golf creates false consciousness.
14. Golf mystifies material phenomena.
15. Golf teaches that tedium is a measure of athletic skill.

I think the last few years confirms that American politics is the opiate of the masses.

>>2443698
True or false: Marxism is the opiate of the intellectual. Proles on their own only achieve trade union consciousness, as Lenin claimed.

>>2443698
Yes religion is form of social control, but so are books, TV, social media and theater, but that's not all any of these are. They are all as toxic as the society's ruling class that they exist in.

>>2483407
golf was banned in the soviet union until gorbachev and in china until deng.

Religion truly inhibits spirituality.

>>2449781
You should check the definition of labour

>ctrl+f "stirner"
>1 result
thread complete
https://theanarchistlibrary.org/library/max-stirner-art-and-religion

>>2486833
lol