An anarchist I know shared this longass post on Instagram. Last pic is from a prominent member of Indonesia's Labor Party. Tell me this isn't a color revolution.
Please do the bare minimum and consider that:
>Indonesia already has a pro-US, pro-Trump, anti-China government
>Indonesia already is firmly right wing, repressive on speech, repressive on internet access
>Indonesia is already ruled by cultural reactionaries who want to spread radical Islamic influence
>Indonesia is one of, if not the most, firmly anti-Socialist / anti-Communist countries on Earth.
>Being a Communist is literally a crime in Indonesia.
>Indonesia mass murdered between 500,000 - 3,000,000 suspected Communists, with full support from the USA.
>The USA and Kissinger armed and funded the Indonesians to committ a genocide against the Timorese people, such is the level of support between the US and Indonesia.
From your post I can only ask, do you know literally nothing about the history of Indonesia and the USA at all?
At the various least I suggest you should read The Jakarta Method which explains the basics of what happened, not even really from a leftist perspective, and it's fucking horrifying.
Why would the USA benefit from encouraging the toppling of a regime that fully aligns with them and does their bidding and would happily cause the mass disappearances of leftists at Trump's demand?
What you're seeing protests by people fed up with a corrupt, violent, and very right wing Islamic regime. This is both a mixture of bourgeois liberal normies with no clue of class issues, and also a semi-organised semi-underground Anarchist movement that has a not insignificant "membership".
Indonesia, and maybe also Greece, might be the only nations today with a real substantial Anarchist movement that isn't just aesthetics and internet slacktivism.
That's because Communism is literally outlawed in Indonesia, and the entire Communist network was murdered by the State in the 50s/60s, so if you are a revolutionary leftist your only option is to support the Anarchist movement.
That or else to spend the rest of your life in a prison cell getting anally raped and tortured by state police / prison guards, that's if you aren't lynched by right wing pro-regime religious schizos first….
>>2456505Have you considered that if you totally destroy a political ideology in a nation by killing all its supporters and their extended families, then make that ideology illegal, that the consequences might last for longer than a single generation?
Just a thought.
funny how both anarchists and MLs can only resort to ideals in their heads to defend their own bullshit ITT
>>2457193>principled communistswtf does this even mean. being practical is like the opposite of being principled
>>2457200>lesser evilgigalib
reminder that countries like china and most especially india have one of the largest and most rapidly expanding middle classes globally and then retards pretend the only way this activism can ever take root is with meddling from the united states LMAO
>>2457216>loot the market of ideology NOW or you arent allowed to critique my bullshit onlinelol
>>2456338>For God’s sake>Jesus ChristVidrel
>the Open Society Foundation is openly taking credit for funding these riots.Citation needed
>Westoid pedo cartoonsBlud needs to look at a map. Also wtf you talking about?
>>2456395If everything those two say is wrong, and they're saying this is a color revolution, then it for sure isn't.
>>2456453You're really stupid and superficial lmao. Is this really where we've come to?
>Erm, sweetie, you're not le leftist because you touched something from le japan once. Sorry, I don't make le rules!>>2456552National socialists truely are fucking retards
>>2456491>>2457193>>2457204Ye, that's why real communists don't get involved in revolts or revolutions: something might break, and that would make people very cross :(
>>2457393Idk if you're aware Anon but Indonesia's communists haven't been doing so great since 1965. Generally you need to be alive to do any organizing.
>>2456924It's worse than that Anon. There can be unrest in a pro-Western country with local MLs supporting it, and people will still somehow call it a colour revolution. There were people here that said the George Floyd riots were America doing a colour revolution against itself. They're not basing it on anything, it's barely even vibes, just people talking out of their ass about countries and events they know nothing about.
>>2456640>If it were 100 years ago these campists would be cheering on the White Terror<she doesn't know that the British empire/etc immediately aligned with White Russianshttps://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Allied_intervention_in_the_Russian_Civil_Warthe WWI Bolshevik revolution directly lead to events which formed this dialectic of Cold War era "capitalist camp vs proletariat camp" in the first place
>>2457479>People who say this are also the same ones who say that the revolution will begin in the third world lmaoClass unconscious anarchists cannot, or will not, tell the difference between Ghislaine Maxwell and the random working class people who live near those private islands owned by Jeffrey Epstein. "lmao you idiot tankies don't understand how woke and anti-fascist the new child caretaker who they flew in from Miami lmao, third worldism is a joke, we just need more spontaneity in the ritual chamber 😏"
>>2457528>racist"Its racist to deny the agency of Palestinians", "its sexist to deny the agency of sex workers", "its ableist to assume that Ukrainian amputees lack the agency to continue to be soldiers" DEMONIC LIBERAL GLOW
>>2457544Truke, my bad.
I just woke up and I'm missing cits left and right.
>>2457558>Class unconscious anarchists cannot, or will not, tell the difference between Ghislaine Maxwell and the random working class people who live near those private islands owned by Jeffrey Epstein1. I don't see what that has to do with anything.
2. I don't see how the mere presence of anarchists indicate anything about the class or political character of the protests, much less how its an indication that its a colour revolution. Anarchists show up at pretty much any sort of unrest.
>>2456031>>2456106>>2456328I remember when I was in PSL someone from the Central Committee told me something similar and it's just as racist and anti-Marxist then as now. You are propping up oppressed and neo-colonial nations as monolithic victims incapable of directing their own history and without internal contradictions. In particular, the class struggle is not the West against Indonesia or any other state. The class struggle is the Indonesian peasantry and workers against the Indonesian bourgeoisies (comprador, national, bureaucratic) and various foreign imperialist bourgeoisies. These class camps also have their own internal contradictions, be it proletariat vs. peasantry or national bourgeoisie vs. compradors.
Even without the direction of a Communist Party, in Indonesia's case due to the bloody failure of revisionist "peaceful coexistence" horseshit, the workers and peasants do not remain idle and will organize themselves in their interests. This is what Marx means when he refers to a "class for itself". These organizations cannot complete the revolution without revolutionary theory and practice, but they can and will independently rise up against injustices and even potentially topple regimes.
>>2456106Joining BRICS really isn't the massive anti-west move that you people make it out to be. What, are Brazil, Egypt, India, South Africa, and the UAE pillars of anti-imperialism now? Brazil literally jumps at the chance to advance itself as part of global imperialism (
volunteering to lead the US-backed occupation of Haiti from 2004-2017 and introducing Cholera to the island), Egypt can't even manage the bare minimum resistance to Israel and is presently primed to slaughter fleeing Palestinians as they reach the border with Gaza, India is also deeply infatuated with Zionism and fascism, South Africa is on the verge of crisis due to the ANC's heel-turn towards the comprador and bureaucratic bourgeoisies, and the UAE alongside the other gulf states enslaves and murders vast swathes of people in order to economically power the war machines of the West. The rest of the member states aren't really any better, but I'm not about to get bogged down in another tedious "China bad?" argument. Point is that positioning BRICS membership as some affront to the west is patently absurd. All are deeply integrated with Western capital.
>>2457856I don't think the suggestion of
>>2456106 was that BRICS = anti-imperialist based commmunism or whatever. It is pretty obvious that the USA is interested in fighting BRICS, and so fighting against a government that has joined it is what they will do. Trump has threatened countries against joining BRICS with economic warfare, and for all we know this is just another move from Trump. It doesn't even have to succeed as long as it shows the USA can fuck with their government.
>>2457967I'm not an Indonesian participating in the uprising myself so I cant speak for them. But with the more radical anarchists at least I can broadly assume their goal is the same as any other actual anarchist. The seizure and destruction of state power and organizing society based around a federation of communes and giving the free people the means to defend themselves from statist aggression for a start would be my general answer, but for specifics you'd probably have to actually talk to them and I dont think we have any Indonesian anons here.
On a side note, a good chunk of the anarchists are actually just communists operating under the anarchist label, since even so much as calling yourself a communist or waving a hammer and sickle is extremely illegal
>>2457959>It is pretty obvious that the USA is interested in fighting BRICSIn certain limited ways, sure, but BRICS isn't some existential threat to the US. It's hardly even in contradiction with it, with the majority of member states being regional allies of the US.
>and so fighting against a government that has joined it is what they will do.Is it? I get that Trump has done a whole song and dance about it, but the phrase "Trump always chickens out" is becoming more popular by the day for a reason.
1. In what way is the US "fighting" the UAE or Egypt, which both also joined recently?
2. Are they not "fighting" them because they joined during the Biden administration?
3. Was the US not antagonistic towards BRICS during that administration?
4. How is the US "fighting" founding members Brazil, India, and South Africa?
5. Is the US' conflict with China, Russia, and Iran really principally rooted in BRICS membership?
>It doesn't even have to succeed as long as it shows the USA can fuck with their government.There isn't a single country on Earth that doesn't already know that this is a possibility. The United States doesn't do foreign intervention "just to show it can". It doesn't need to. Everyone knows it can. That's why the DPRK has nukes.
>>2458009ultras unironically believe 'uncontested american hegemony is better for socialism than multipolarity'
fucking one drop rule purity testing LARPers that have never once accomplished anything in material reality. good luck selling your newspapers.
>>2458023Ok so when you say "seizure and destruction of state power" me and that other anon see that as advocating for burning it all down. So we are all basically in agreement it seems.
The stuff about communes n shit is just some utopianist fantasy stuff, that's where the other anon might call that nihilism. I don't see how the Indonesian archipelago is going to prevent a "statist" reconsolidation after the government falls. How are they going to keep the state down, when the material class relations that give rise to that state still exist? Not to mention the threat of imperialism gobbling them up right away.
>>2458031I don't think it's a "colour revolution" either lol, but I am not looking at it with much hope. All power to them tho, I hope they succeed in their goals, I just think the odds of that happening are extremely low.
>a good chunk of the anarchists are actually just communistsUnfortunately this is cope. After the destruction of the communist movement in Indonesia, communism is basically dead there, they don't even know what it is really, there's no party, there is no line, advocating for communists ideas is illegal. Calling them secret communists is not based on anything but hopium
>>2458110What do you think "state power" is anon? Why would destroying it be "burning everything down" rather than simply getting rid of the structures that allow for minority rule in the first place? The other shit is advocated for in State and Revolution so I'd hardly call it "utopian", the main difference is that anarchists think the state by design can only represent the will of a minority. Otherwise it's all scientific and a far cry from "nihilism" whatever the hell you think it means
>How are they going to keep the state down, etcDo you think that people after having fought for their freedom are just going to lay down arms and roll over for the first state power that tries to establish itself?.
I will concede that if they want to get anywhere they do need to form some proper revolutionary organizations rather than just going around aimlessly sure, but that's not mutually exclusive with anarchism at all.
>>2458125State power is the ability of one class to enforce its will at the highest level of organisation. Because the state is the culmination of class relations of a given society in the superstructure. You may want to abolish it, but that doesn't abolish the relations that give rise to its existance in the first place.
Thus, destroying this state without having an effective means to enforce your collective class interest is in effect "burning it all down" because that's all there is to that.
The rest is utopian because it is a preconceived view of their ideal society, which they provide no real means of accomplishing this for. People will just do it supposedly, cuz they want to or something.
>Do you think that people after having fought for their freedom are just going to lay down arms and roll over for the first state power that tries to establish itself?.Yes, obviously. Unless they build some kind of structured organisation that can effectively defend the revolution from both counter revolution and imperialism, which they refuse to do because it is too authoritarian
>>2458179A lot of words to say that you think people are too stupid to rule themselves or know what they want and need some intellectual vanguard to wield absolute power while pinky promising that it's for the people or something.
The fact of the matter is that while yes the state exists as a tool for class rule, that is because the state by design exists to prop up the rule of a few, whether openly autocratic or "representative" or whathaveyou. Or to quote Kropotkin
>the existence of a power situated above society, but also of a territorial concentration as well as the concentration in the hands of a few of many functions in the life of societiesThis is concurrent with what Engels himself argues in Origin of the Family, Private Property, and the State. The idea of the state merely being a tool of class domination in the abstract that can somehow be repurposed for the masses is nothing but metaphysics. A system that actually directly manifests popular will (no, political parties dont count) is no longer a state but simply a social organization or commune, and we've had those for a long time without needing states. Or in short, the direct conquest of the state by the proletariat, rather than its capture and transformation by the party which allegedly acts on behalf of the proletariat.
You can argue that seizing and repurposing state power is more efficient maybe but that's a whole different topic, my point is that the state is not society and getting rid of the state is not "burning everything down"
>>2458198Its very annoying to argue with someone who disingenuously distorts your arguments, if you cannot counter what I said you can just concede.
Nowhere did I argue about some metaphysical qualifiers in the nature of man being "too stupid" or whatever individualistic projection you're trying to get at. It is a simple practical matter that there must be some organizing body that has to capability to defend the social revolution. Maybe anarchists are capable of this, I consider that to be highly unlikely however, as all historic anarchist projects have gotten mopped up or incorporated into some more organized/centralized structure in no time, be they imperialist or otherwise.
>he fact of the matter is that while yes the state exists as a tool for class ruleIt is not merely A tool, it is THE tool. The complete culmination of class society as such, the way in which it ultimately materializes itself.
>that is because the state by design exists to prop up the rule of a few, whether openly autocratic or "representative" or whathaveyou. Or to quote KropotkinIt is not made "by design", it exists because class society exists. Its practical functionality is class dictatorship, as to enforce the interest of whatever class happens to be the ruling class of said society. Metaphysical nonsense about it being designed to sustain "the few" (whatever that means) is useless in understanding the actuality and reason for the state being in the first place.
>The idea of the state merely being a tool of class domination in the abstractBut it's not doing that "in the abstract", that is literally what it is in actuality, there's nothing abstract about it.
>that can somehow be repurposed for the masses is nothing but metaphysicsThere's no somehow about it, millions of people have been lifted out of poverty, freed from colonialism, given literacy, given healthcare, education, etc. Far more, far quicker and far more effectively than any other system. Meanwhile anarchists have accomplished less than nothing, they've done absolutely nothing for the masses at all.
>repurposing state power is more efficient maybe but that's a whole different topicThe fact that you think that's a whole different topic, when that's exactly what we're talking about. Preventing counter revolution, working society towards the class interest of the working class, etc. Party model is more efficient and therefore better in all regards.
>>2456031Critical support to the right-wing, religious-reactionary government that ran one of the world's largest anti-communist genocides in modern history.
No, not Iran this time, Indonesia.
>>2458285>That's literally what you're doingNo it's not. Nowhere did I distort anon's argument to be something it was not. I simply countered his arguments with my own. If I did, he can point that out on his own thank you very much
>either arguing semanticsThat may be (I don't think so), but that's not distorting his arguments
>insisting that what you argued isn't what you actually argued after it's counteredBecause it's not, I didn't claim people are "too stupid" to rule themselves and claiming I did is not a counter, it's a distortion. Me pointing that out is not me distorting his argument lol.
>And then you just go on to spew Dengoid nonsense that implies communism is just some welfare project. Come on dude.The question was whether the system I advocate for repurposes the state in favor of "the masses" somehow, I simply illustrated that it in fact did, before and after deng, it doesn't matter. Again, it's not me distorting his argument. It is simply a counter you disagree with because you think China is not realTM communism and you think lifting untold millions out of unimaginable third world poverty is just welfareism or whatever
Now please, if you don't have any actual arguments rather then restating things I said as if they are self evidently incorrect, please shut the fuck up retard
>>2458295Except, they DO literally use them of course, and their willingness to do it. The compradors and their states are clearly not able to do it on their own to anywhere near the extent that they have been, the material as well as monetary, diplomatic, military and intelligence aid and assistance that the United Stated provides, explicitly in the name of anticommunism, allows these compradors to enact far more violence effectively and reaching much further than they would be able to if left to their own devices. Idk how you could deny the effectiveness of the US in this regard, do you think all those billions if not trillions of dollars went nowhere? Not to mention all the times the US literally straight up put them in charge.
What are you arguing exactly?
>>2458128Look at those maps you posted. Notice any differences between the countries listed? In particular, what's the difference between Vietnam and Thailand, or Colombia and Nicaragua, or Sudan and the Philippines? All of these nations faced systematic extermination campaigns against the communists, yet in many of these countries Communists not only survived, they went on to topple imperialism and neo-colonialism. In revolution, the people, their party, and their politics are what decides who emerges victorious. These are internal to the revolution and cannot be handed down from above by another Party or state. External contradictions like foreign intervention play a secondary role in every instance.
There is no question that US intervention happens, but you are failing to grasp why it succeeds.You are, again, taking a de facto racist view of the people of these nations as helpless victims unable to drive history, when in reality these maps demonstrate that the opposite is true. The working classes, with their politics in command, are unstoppable. US imperialism is helpless against them. But when the working classes are mislead by revisionism, when their politics are not in command, the movement is liable to collapse like a badly-made building with everyone trapped inside. Something might be built, but all it takes is just the right force to tip it over.
Why was Indonesian neo-colonialism able to murder over a million Communists but South Vietnam couldn't?
Why have Communists been unable to reconstitute a significant revolutionary Party in Indonesia while the Filipino Communists not only did so after the old party was exterminated but then endured over 60 straight years of civil war?
The reality is that US imperialism is only able to succeed when we don't properly navigate the internal contradictions of where we're at, and don't embody the needs and will of the people. >>2458493Why? Do you think the Chinese are pedos?
It's also a very essentialist way of looking at things. If we're referring to anime as an aesthetic, rather than "animation from Japan", then you'd know it's just a goddamn artstyle. The visual presentation of something has nothing to do with its contents. You can easily make socialist-realist art with cute anime people, and it'd probably land pretty well in today's context, considering how popular the style is.
>>2458565>Those other countries weren't able to defeat imperialism either anon. While a few PPWs are still ongoing, the results have yet to materialize after decades and decades of struggle.What are you talking about? Of the countries I listed, only one has an ongoing people's war, and the revolutions in Vietnam and Nicaragua defeated the forces of imperialism. In the Philippines, the germinal people's government has brought concrete results for the workers in liberated areas, and the revolution being sustained for over 60 years is a testament to their strong organizing. If the revolution hadn't brought concrete results, why exactly do you think the CPP-NPA is still capable of maintaining a thousands-strong army and Party? Why are they still more popular and relevant with the people than other nominally "Communist" parties in the country? Revolution isn't a footrace, you don't get to dismiss movements because they struggle for decades. It is for precisely that reason that they should be celebrated. When we don't recognize this, there is no coherent way to account for their continued existence.
>But the significance of the United States as THE imperialist force in the world today and the main driving force for the global enforcement of anticommunism should not be understated.The United States is significant as the chief force of reaction most likely to destroy the world as it loses ground to revolution. What I am saying is not downplaying its danger, the US can rain death on essentially anyone it wants. But there is an equal reality that it's the people, not weapons or any one country, who make history. The combined might of the British, French, German, Spanish, Italian, Israeli, Russian, US, etc. bourgeoisies have not been able to stop the forward march of the people, and they will not. Their danger arises from how much damage they will do to the world and our ability to live in it before their final defeat takes place.
>>2459240Anime usage can lead to lifelong debilitating conditions such as, agoraphobia, social anxiety, anti-social behavior, dysphoria, depression, derealization, depersonalization and worse. Before you think anime is no big deal, that you can use just a little and you'll be fine, just talk to an anime user for 5 minutes, and ask yourself if that's how you want to end up.
>>2459230>>2459240>>2459242Again, if we're treating "anime" as an aesthetic, it carries no innate moral value. It's just slightly stylized people with big eyes. You can depict whatever stories you want with these designs; that the Japanese choose The Time I Got Reincarnated As A Loli With Giant Tits!? has nothing to do with the style and everything to do with Japan.
I don't even really like anime; I stopped watching it when I was 13. But I cannot fucking stand essentialism.
>>2459443Why are you arbitrarily connecting them? What about slightly simplified people with big eyes and small noses is reactionary? Please, tell me logically, without resorting to "it just is…okay?"
Picrel was commissioned by the CPC. Is the CPC reactionary?
>>2459520>>erm don’t you know that the Swastika was a symbol for peace for thousands of yearsI mean yeah, it was. I'm going to be immediately suspicious of anyone who uses that symbol, because it is associated with the Nazis, but at the same time, actions speek louder than words, and, as the Nazis themselves show, the meaning of a given signifier can change at any time.
>>I refuse to stop consuming Nazi slop because it’s vaguely related to some old stories but with added pedophile appealCalling One Piece pedophilic tells me you know basically nothing about it.
>Considering the overwhelming connection between Nazism and SatanismDitto for Nazism. And Faust. And basically everything you've talked about up to this point. I'm starting to suspect that your politics are based on vibes and aesthetics!
>>2459447Music is different than aesthetics, plus we're not talking about hyper specific components like chords, we're talking about a general aesthetic style
>>2459460Because it's not arbitrary at all? One informs the other and vice versa? Please answer my question on why you arbitrarily divorce them from each other instead of deflecting.
>Why are le anime characteristics fascist?Because japan was a fascist country, which never reformed itself from that fascism and thus produces nearly only fascist art. If you want to get into the specifics of the forms then it gets more arbitrary, but there's certainly a lot of infantalizing of women/sexualizing them. Female characters are almost always subordinated to men, if not just outright sex objects. The common tropes of individualism, nostalgia for imagined pasts, militarism and things like destiny are like the bedrock of anime and are reflected in the style of the work. I would argue all those qualifiers have fascistic aspects that are intertwined with the anime style itself. A few bad apples spoils the bunch and in this case it's not just a few
>What about muh chinese cartoons?Our man is clearly portrayed neither with big eyes nor a small nose.
>>2459531A Hazite 3rd worldist is claiming in this post that watching Dragon Ball Z is literally identical to supporting WW2 era imperial Japanese war crimes and Japanese ultranationalism.
These people are not serious. They are disruptors, trying to cause the most ridiculous arguements, and should be banned on sight.
>>2459555>One informs the other and vice versa?How?
What you are saying is, fundamentally, that I could draw two comics detailing Lenin's life, both with the exact same dialog, panel layouts, and overall action, one in a naturalistic style and the other with manga-y designs, and the manga-y version is automatically fascist on the basis of how it looks. That is, quite frankly, fucking retarded. The presentation does nothing to alter the content, but for whatever reason you have it in your head that it actually magically does.
>Please answer my question on why you arbitrarily divorce themBecause I see no need to connect them. Reread the rest of my post for more information.
>Our man is clearly portrayed neither with big eyes nor a small nose.Picrel is from the same show.
>>2459599Hazaites are all white Americans who never go outside.
If they ever went to China, Korea, ASEAN they'd know people in those countries love anime and don't think about wherever it comes from.
But then if they begin to allow reality to creep in, their entire politics would crumble apart.
>>2459605>HowSubstance cannot be portrayed without style, style informs substance and is in turn is informed by substance. It's dialectical you see
>What you are saying is, fundamentally, that I could draw two comics detailing Lenin's life, both with the exact same dialog, panel layouts, and overall action, one in a naturalistic style and the other with manga-y designs, and the manga-y version is automatically fascist on the basis of how it looks. Yes, certainly the anime one would be far more fascistic than the naturalistic one
>That is, quite frankly, fucking retarded. The presentation does nothing to alter the content, but for whatever reason you have it in your head that it actually magically does.That is where you're wrong. Bet you're a death of the author type of guy too
>Picrel is from the same showI know, I've watched it. I'm fucking with you
>>2459621>Substance cannot be portrayed without style, style informs substance and is in turn is informed by substance. It's dialectical you seeThat's true to an extent, but I'm not sure how that applies here. What about the anime style specifically makes it fascist? You keep insisting that it simply is, as if it's an agreed upon scientific fact, but the only "evidence" you've provided thus-far is that certain themes are common in Anime, and that could just as easily be a result of the Japanese being sick fucks, rather than the art style they're using to depict this sick fuckery.
The only thing I can think of is that it's too pretty; that it depicts people and environments that are too squeaky-clean, polished, and idealized to speak to the real world they're supposed to represent. That's a big part of why I personally don't like most anime; I need "humanity" in my media, and it often feels like the style is too "polite" to capture that. But then, that's not a problem exclusive to anime. There's a whole ton of socialist-realist art that does the exact same thing. Otherwise, I have no idea what you're talking about.
>Yes, certainly the anime one would be far more fascistic than the naturalistic oneAgain, why?
>Bet you're a death of the author type of guy tooIf we're looking at things from a sociological perspective I would say that broad-stroaks, yes I am. In terms of actual society-wide influence, authorial intent only matters insofar as people are both aware of and agree with the author. To say otherwise is idealism.
>>2459700You are a total clown. Watching a cartoon about pirates doesn't make you a Neo-Nazi. It doesn't make you part of a colour revolution.
There is no fucking way you aren't either a troll or underaged.
>>24597093rd worldist ACP Hazites will say the most retarded things imaginable to try to draw attention to their reactionary movement.
That's why they are saying such obviously outrageous nonsense.
>>2459713A government that also did the largest mass murder of communists in history.
That committed a genocide against the Timorese people with the US and Kissinger's backing.
That continues to engage in settler colonialism and occupation of the Papuan people.
That's who these clowns are defending. And their only arguement to defend such a regime is "but the protestors like popular media!"
>>2459740So true comrade!!!!
Now I hereby sentence you to 50 years of self criticism in an Alaskan gulag camp for watching the paedo nazi cartoon "SpongeBob".
Heil Haz!
>>2459742Except for inventing anime
>>2459744Spongebob is not a pedo nazi cartoon, most anime is either or both
>>2459746easy ragebait ngl
>>2459747So it's only cartoons created by non-whites you take an issue with?
So zased comrade! Heil Haz!!!!
>>2459753No I take issue with pedo nazi cartoons, which most anime is. The race of whoever produced it is irrelevant
>>2459755Not much of that itt anyways, also
>ziggeryou can't say that anon, you racist
>>2459759Damn you got me there, disregard everything I said actually
>>2459765I concede to the boondocks argument
>>2459755Chiang Kai Shek was a murderous fascist anti-Communist who was sitting on his ass getting free weapons by the US which he used to slaughter Chinese Communists.
But when pro-Japanese compradors under Wang Jingwei tried to convince the Chinese masses that the escape to Chiang's Blueshirt gangs was subservience to Japan, the Communists never once gave them "critical support" against the fascist state. They literally did the opposite, they tried over and over to engage in alliances with Chiang's KMT AGAINST the Japanese lackeys. That's how Communists understand national sovereignty. It is prized as above all other political differences.
>>2459783>>2459788The difference of course being that Indonesia is not being invaded by Japan, there is no significant communist party, the protesters are not aligned with Japan at all no matter how much you try to tell yourself that using an anime symbol is "Japanese cultural imperialism", and other minor unimportant details like that.
People here will really just say anything. "Anti-government protesters in Indonesia are just like Wang Jingwei". No they aren't. That isn't true.
>>2459821 Also "national unity" was LITERALLY THE LINE USED BY EARL BROWDER WHEN HE BECAME A
KNOWN FEDERAL AGENT as the excuse to DISSOLVE THE CPUSA
>>2459230Kill yourself hazlet
t. someone who doesn't watch anime
>>2459788>It's violent anti-Communism is an indigenous movement of the national bourgeoisie. Sukarno represented the national bourgeoisie. He was overthrown by pro-imperialist factions who were compradors by definition.
>There were times when they accepted US aid in their operations but they were never dependent on it the way the Iran was for example.Anon the leaders of the 1965 coup were brought to the US as part of a deliberate program to train foreign officers and indoctrinate them into anti-communism. This was the same model used to lay the foundations of Operation Condor and the Latin American juntas of the 70s. The lists of names of PKI members and trade unionists were provided to them by the CIA and MI6. The post-coup Indonesian government was practically grown in a lab in the Pentagon. Have you even read the Jakarta Method?
>>2458316Why lifting millions out of poverty
cannot be just welfareism?!
>>2460751It's really funny just how hung up you are on the anime bit.
Hey genius, don't you think that the US might have something to gain from one of its puppet states giving it a place in BRICS?
>pic relatedworst load of shite ive ever read and larpers online will lap it up like babies drink milk
>>2460743>popular revolt>popular>popular>popularas retarded as op is can you also grow a brain and stop pretending communists are about democracy lmao
>>2456031>>2460843>>2460860This garbage is nothing but romantic drivel that would only wow fellow college students because that's the only shit politically impotent liberals can do.
>>2460743>>2460855A communist does not care to be popular, only correct. When you have an organization that is solely "doh democracy good" then you're simply not socialist, communist or working class. In fact, if any "organization" ever becomes larger and gains more "mass", the more factions and heterodox any organisation becomes. All the more as it has no class program, it does not exclude people due to class, and every pandering to democracy is an acceptance of maintaining society as a whole.
It's so common to treat politics as a noble tool, a "master key" to liberation, and then to blame its failures on outside evils such as money, mafia, or media. But this view ignores what politics in a democracy actually is. If politics is supposed to deliver equality, liberty, justice, and fraternity, it's worth seeing that these ideals are not goals beyond the system but the system's own promises.
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