how did fascists come out of the pro-war section of the italian socialist party? the argument for italy's entrance into ww1 seems to make sense from a socialist perspective, reads like most national liberation movements that come out now so how and why did they flip to such a reactionary degree ?
>>2484154They fetishized and romanced the war, this is futurism and was fundamental in fascist ideology in the 1920’s, it doesn’t care about class, it cared about a spiritual and literal war worshipping death and destruction. A better thing to ask would be “what if the futurist cult never existed” and the answer to that is Italian fascism probably would’ve never existed
>>2484373So TLDR it wasn’t ever about class/national liberation it was about the worship of death and enslavement
>>2484154bullshit. there were more syndies than socialists among the fascist founding fathers. fascism was largely a syndicalist creation.
>>2484517It was neither socialist nor Syndicalist, none of these groups created fascism and to say so is wrong
>>2484626Thank you for your service. WW1 is an actual example of inter-imperialist conflict, with only Serbia having some 'right to defend the fatherland' from the Austrian agression, but even the Serbian bourgeoisie had plans of Greater Serbia (Yugoslavia) and the Serbian social-democrats took a defeatist position, the only other ones being the bolsheviks. Pro-war socialist = Kautsky&co
>>2484517ᴉuᴉlossnW was a socialist before becoming a fascist and not a syndicalist. i don't say this to defend syndicalism or attack socialism. i say this to point out that there is a reason OP is saying fascism came from socialists who became reactionary.
>>2484626are we ever going to abolish capital or is the center of capital just going to keep moving around because of crises and wars
>>2484638DENGISTS IN CQNTRQL
TRVST THE PLQN
>>2484154it's almost like fascist, socialists and commies are all the same ideological trash
(USER WAS BANNED FOR THIS POST) >>2484747look up "totalitarianism"
>>2484766where is the "communist paradise" to add to picrel?
>>2484772>communists and capitalists are the same, therefore communists are betterpure contradiction
>>2484373Futurism came after the war and doesn't have anything to do with what OP is talking about.
>>2484373I think akin to fascism was unavoidable under the threat of impending revolution tho
>>2484626trvthnuky
>>24846362 more weeks trust the plan
>>2485225a koopa would never
>>2484791Liberty? You mean getting eventually fucked hard by porkies?
>>2485219>I think akin to fascism was unavoidable under the threat of impending revolution thoIn a weird way its interesting to speculate about what sort of reactionary ideology could have taken fascism's place had it not come into being.
>>2484791liberty to do what tho vote democrat or republican ?
>>2485240some sort of form of integralism probably
>>2484626The only flaw in that explanation is that they were hardly calling for war per se.
>>2484760>criticising ANGLO SPOTTEDso pretentious, buddy you're not doing a "critique of pure reason" like Kant, you're an infantile ultraleftist posting CIA brainrot memes
>>2485798Give me the tl;dr because I keep finding multiple definitions of integralism
This was the peak of European imperialism, the European empires were battling for world domination and pro-War nationalist sentiment was everywhere, young boys were raised to become soldiers and march off to war for fame and glory. Italy was enticed into joining the war by the Allied powers with promises of vast territories in Africa and the Middle East; after the war the Allies reneged on the deal and Italians were outraged by the betrayal, thus civil unrest and the rise of fascism.
>>2484154Because social democracy and the like (revisionism) is objectively the left wing of fascism. Many who glom onto the socialist and communist movement are principally populists/nationalists who see this movement as the most practical path to their narrow aims and try to redirect the movement towards that. When this tendency inevitably runs into conflict with genuine Communism, be it in a socialist state (struggle by Stalin to end the NEP, Cultural Revolution in China) or a Communist Party out of power (Italy, Germany, Myanmar, etc.) these revisionist forces first try to seize the Party and/or its mass organizations (see ᴉuᴉlossnW's attempts at taking over the paper
Avanti!) or break away from the Party in as destructive a way as possible (see the near-dissolution of the Communist Party of Burma in 1989) in order to lead the masses away from its leadership. These coups and breakaways then always degenerate into fascist formations (see the "national armies" that broke with the CPB) that are either imperialist or in service to imperialism.
>>2484373>>2484374Futurism was a reallly niche thing before ᴉuᴉlossnW took power, so I would discard it completely.
Moreover, I'll toss more tha cause around italian nationalism having been "progressive" until recently (for them).
Italy as a state only came to being only in 1861, with a lot of it's ethnically italian territories in the north being under Austrain control. We had already gone to war with Austria numerous time by then, so a lot of people just saw WW1 as a continuation of the Risorgimento and thus a historically progressive unification of a nation.
>>2484626True but that's not how it was sold as to the population. According the the bourgeois propaganda, it was the final war required to liberate italy and complete the Risorgimento.
>>2493124>socialism lead to fascismDepending on who you talk to, fascism is liberal's fault, fascism is conservative's fault, fascism is social democracy's fault, fascism is socialism's fault, fascism is communism's fault. What if fascism is an emergent property of developed capitalist economies instead of simply the brainchild of an an existing idelogy?
>how did fascists come out of the pro-war section of the italian socialist party?
See the ziggers
The principle component of the rise of all these fascist, socialist, and communist movements in the beginning of the 20th century was the development of propaganda. The Industrial Revolution brought forth mass communication on an unprecedented scale, print material could be cheaply mass produced by anyone, not to mention radio, telegraph, telephone, aircraft leaflets, etc. The world was utterly unprepared for this paradigm shift and every political movement took full advantage of this, using propaganda to great effect on a very naive public.
>>2484154Wanna understand what is a pro-war socialist? Easy. Look at the American left. Look at the left-wing Jewish Europeans who founded Israel. It is a common phenomenon.
>>2493474>Look at the American left. Look at the left-wing Jewish Europeans who founded Israel.Wait, let me look inside, hold on, this is just Jabotinskyite fascists. Why are you lying?
>>2493466It all makes sense now.
>>2484373regarding futurism you forgot the desire to erase all historical context and bury the past with oversimplified narratives. I think AI is useful for futurism/fascism. It's hard to find a real painting/photo of someone from 1700s/1800s now because they give you a bunch of AI crap that doesn't even look like them. You also have pushes in the USA for "patriotic education" that totally removes any reference to capitalism, slavery genocide, white supremacy, imperialism, coup plotting, etc. the USA is known for. The idea is to bury the past and recreate society in the image of a fake golden age that never existed
>>2484374Not entirely.
Fascists believed in "Hero" worship and functionally had a Roman view of "Citizenship" where you earn your citizenship through serving and warfare. This is because Fascism had deeply internalised Nietzschean morality and viewed Christian dominance as slave morality that had basically made the average person a sheep waiting to be slaughtered.
This is why Fascism also at best, Tolerated Christians for Realpolitik reasons, but did their best to try revive Roman/Ancient Germanic culture and religion.
Fascism is a Futurist ideology, but it was one that wanted to build a Futurist society on idealised "heroic" ancient Roman ideals. This is why Fascists were so warmongering.
>>2493129Regular Integralism = Catholic Clericalism, Catholicism is the state religion and the state bases laws on it
Brazilian Integralism = Clerical Fascism
>>2536060
>Regular Integralism = Catholic Clericalism, Catholicism is the state religion and the state bases laws on it>Brazilian Integralism = Clerical Fascismthen whats franco-ism and salazar-ism
>>2485238source on jefferson trying to prosecute Toussaint Louverture?
>>2538134The Haitians were objectively sentenced to reparations. That is the Haitian Indemnity crisis. The USA supported France against Haiti in the Haitian revolution.
>Thomas Jefferson, United States President, feared a slave revolt would spread to the United States, ceased the aid that was initiated by his predecessor John Adams and sought the international isolation of Haiti.source:
https://history.state.gov/milestones/1784-1800/haitian-revNo the meme is not trying to say that Jefferson personally "prosecuted" Touissant Louverture unless you take everything hyper literally. It is making funny of the diversion between Jefferson's supposed revolutionary values and the actual reality of how he lived (fearing revolution by slaves). The meme already has enough text without getting into the actual nuance. Sufficie it to say that Jefferson saw no problem with Haiti being forced to pay france reparations even if he wasn't directly involved. The point is he was counter revolutionary when it came to haitians, and his "tree of liberty" quote was never intended by him to apply to the slave owning tyrants.
>>2484790>I'm neither socialist nor communist nor fascist nor capitalist but some secret fifth thinga fart huffing philosopher?
>>2484154>he argument for italy's entrance into ww1 seems to make sense from a socialist perspective,no it didn't. entry into WW1 destroyed the second international
>>2493124Arguably the best scholarly work on the formative history fascism that exists.
>>2484791Name one Gulag inmate who was innocent.
I'll wait.
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