/leftypol/ - Leftist Politically Incorrect

>>2499099
>Selective breeding has been around for thousands of years. This view was a mainstream as it can get.

You can't get novel traits that way, you can only get the same traits that occur naturally. You can breed white roses over and over again and eventually get a red rose from random mutation, but you will never get a blue rose.

>>2499161
Stop shitting up threads you retard
You project everything you disagree with on your retard yank conspiracy theorists

>>2499161
IM FULLY EXPECTING IT :D

Does anyone know RFK's opinions on Mendelian inheritance?

>>2499227
>>2499255
do not derail the scientific thread please. Thank you.

>>2499100
It should have been very easy for you to link the posts that adress this and yet you didn't. Curious.
>>2499102
>the understanding of how it happens is what was in dispute
Is it? It looks like a very straight forward process to me.
>i didn't say epigenitics debunks the weismann barrier
Then don't bring it randomly up in your post if it has nothing to do with the rest of what you wrote
>Pangenesis
Wow, Lysenko was interested in a refuted idea of Darwin, while dismissing his most important contribution. This definitely shines a new light on his stupidity.

>>2499359
>y not make effort for me
Because it's a waste of my time and I'm not that invested in this

Here you go >>2494354

>>2499407
every time I press you, it always ends up being schizo babble about everyone you don't like being eugenicists

>>2498749
didn't read+ your idealist lmao

>>2499438
That's because no matter how many times it's said you can't comprehend that people are comparing lysenko to his contemporaries

Which is why entertaining your incoherent babbling is a waste of time

>>2499449
His contemporaries despite their flaws made actual advancement that set us on the right path, Lysenko at best was too incompetent to recognize what hybrid crops are and at worst was a fraud.

>>2499571
And vernalisation?

>>2499612
pre existing set of methods used by Russian peasantry long before Lysenko

>>2499623
And epigenetics?

Actually, because I'm not that invested in this I haven't been presenting the best arguments

This is probably the only useful thing to cone out of this thread >>2499004

>>2499635
*come
Now that was a wierd autocorrect

>>2499359
> if it has nothing to do with the rest of what you wrote
>>2499449
>comparing lysenko to his contemporaries
>>2499359
>Lysenko was interested in a refuted idea of Darwin
i said "so was lysenko" as in lysenko was also a fan of darwins theory of evolution. darwin also proposed a mechanism for the inheritance of acquired characteristics. like lysenko the specifics of the mechanism was wrong, but the theory was correct. its getting hard to tell if you cant read or are being deliberately stupid

>>2499675
>the specifics of the mechanism was wrong, but the theory was correct
This only makes sense if you view science as a meta physical debate instead of the discovery of material world. Are you American by any chance? No idea how else you can be this retarded.
>>2499612
The process had been already described a decade earlier by a German researcher. The scientific communities of different countries at the time weren't as interconnected as today, so this sort of thing was very common at the time.
>>2499628
Lysenko didn't discover it.

>>2499834
>This only makes sense if
i just dont see why we reject lysenko and uphold others if darwin mendel and wiesmann were equally wrong

>>2499843
Yeap this is the entire contention, everything beyond this is shitposting on my part at least

>>2499843
There are recreatable experiments which verify mendelian genetics and darwinian evolution. Neither theory was outright wrong, just incomplete like every other singular scientific model.
Lysenko claimed he could transmute wheat into rye and called anyone who disagreed a malthusian. Hardly comparable.

>>2500647
Lysenko was also not outright wrong, just incomplete. Thats another thing you people never consider, why a nation devastated by war that just lost tens of millions of people needs to invest in training up scientists to circle jerking about fruit flies when the people need food and houses. It also wasn't actually him attacking people who disagreed with him but the state and for good reason. If you want to condemn the USSR go ahead it would not be surprising that someone so illiterate would also swallow every anti-communist propaganda without question.

>>2500672
the actual anti communist propaganda about lysenko is "he starved millions." the much more moderate thing he is being criticized for ITT is claiming to turn durham wheat into common wheat in 1 generation through vernalization alone. It is unlikely he was able to do this.

>>2500698
it doesnt really seem like you actually know what he thought

>>2500697
>It is unlikely he was able to do this.
probably because he didnt claim that

>>2500672
There are no experiments or observations to prove his theory of evolution. He was either incompetent or a fraud.
>circle jerking about fruit flies
This was useful research that advanced the field. Not having the funds yourself to conduct such research is petty reason to reject it.
>>2500707
>>2500708
you haven't read his work

>>2500737
I respect your commitment to talk to these idiots

>>2500708
>probably because he didnt claim that
Yeah he did but please move the goalposts for the 10th time. Through Lysenkoism itself, Lysenko's propositions can keep evolving in a Lamarckian fashion even after he dies, to match whatever latest epigenetic discoveries have been made.

>>2501084
>Yeah he did
Source?

Holy shit kill yourself.

>>2501454
→>>2501395

>>2500698
>Well, I wish Lysenko himself had thought that way
What is that supposed to mean?

OP HERE

After reading all the posts here, my two cents:
(i) Anti-Lysenkoists are unable to clearly formulate and substantiate clearly the 'sins' of Lysenko and why he is slandered so much. It is as if they have been conditioned to dunk on Lysenko, on socio-historical basis rather than scientific basis.
(ii) Pro-Lysenkoists, while not fully convincing, argue their positions much more rationally, and frame the discussion in a scientific setting.

I conclude that Lysenko-slander is counter revolutionary. While not a perfect God, while making errros, the good of Lysenko outweighs his bad.

Lysenko was seen in a public bathhouse in the USSR. The comrades about him were astounded to see that he had enormous heaving feminine breasts.

>Comrade Lysenko! Comrade Lysenko!
they shouted over one another with excitement

>Comrade Lysenko! Your breasts are so large! How did this come to be?

<You see, comrades,
said Lysenko
<my mother got breast implants just before getting pregnant with me.

if lysenko was right, why come the sons of the circumcised are not born circumcised, ever think of that?

>>2502462
That would be Lamarckian evolution. According to Lysenkoism a human who climbs a lot could give birth to a monkey.

>>2494312
sauce anyone?

Idiotic as aryan physics

>>2499138
Dude, you can get "blue rose" analog of wheat, because wheat's genome is fucking massive and contains all kinds of shit.
To illustrate, look up that foul-smelling rafflesia flower, whose' genome contains all kinds of shit from all over the place from other species. Funnily enough, there was more research into rafflesia done on that front than on wheat, humanity's staple food. That's why everyone's been pointing fingers at mendeloids. Mendeloids can deny reality however much they want, but baseline Mendeloid model was WRONG IN PRACTICE. THERE WAS PRACTICAL EVIDENCE that Mendeloid model of inheritance didn't actually explain WHOLE THING. More than that, the instinctively true idea that not a single gene but rather a multiple genes and the external simuli is how traits manifest, was adopted by modern science, not the Mendeloid absolutist crap with fixed inheritance rates and what else.
Furthermore, modern genetic therapy IN PRACTICE proves that genes can be, in fact, influenced by the environment

>>2493029
>AES nation
>no such thing currently exists
Unironically true. But Lysenko was retarded.

>>2492933
Lysenko was a Quack, and Maoist China saw through his Reactionary Crypto-Christian Creationist Anti-Materialist Bullshit, and promoting him was one of the only mistakes Stalin made, as Mendelian Genetics, Molecular Genetics, and Evolution through Natural Selection, are Dialectical Materialist realities that must be accepted by Real Communists (Marxist-Leninist-Maoists), as any attempt to reject them will inevitably lead you down the Creationist Road of White Settler Christian Zionist Nationalist Fascist Evangelical Protestant Homophobic Transphobic Patriarchal Sexist Racist Fundamentalist Theocracy, with the field of Population Genetics being especially important for determining the precise origins of all the Nations/Ethnic groups that will each get their own SSR in the future Global USSR, based on the Marxist-Leninist-Maoist principle of Self-Determination of all Oppressed Nations in their own SSR as articulated in Stalin’s “Marxism and the National Question” https://www.marxists.org/reference/archive/stalin/works/1913/03a.htm and Lenin’s “The Socialist Revolution and the Right of Nations to Self-Determination” https://www.marxists.org/archive/lenin/works/1916/jan/x01.htm , along with the National Delimitation Policy of the USSR https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_delimitation_in_the_Soviet_Union , ✊😜🇨🇳🇰🇵🇨🇺🇵🇸🏳️‍🌈🏳️‍⚧️🚀☢️!

A classic example of modern Population Genetics are the first 4 In-depth Charts of Autosomal DNA Ancestry Components associated with various Indo-European Ethno-Linguistic groups/subdivisions (ie. Germanic, Slavic, Italic/Romance, Celtic, Baltic, Graeco-Albanian/Balkanic, Armenian, Iranian, Indo-Aryan, etc.) across various Indo-European and Non-Indo-European speaking populations in Europe, West Asia, Central Asia, South Asia, Siberia, and the Americas, in comparison to various Autosomal DNA Ancestry Components associated with Non-Indo-European Ethno-Linguistic groups/subdivisions, along with a Chart of the Autosomal DNA Ancestry Makeup of each of the Indo-European and Non-Indo-European Ethno-Linguistic groups/subdivisions shown in the first 4 Charts, based on the proportion of Indo-European Steppe and Non-Steppe Autosomal DNA Ancestry Components, with all of these charts coming from the same video https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2FJaTRFojJg of “The History of Indo-European Peoples, Languages and Ancestry from 5000 BC to 2025 AD” that cites 33 Academic articles published on Population Genetics, ✊😜🧬!

>>2497368
They're either trolls or morons who view the lworld purely as a teamsport

>>2523226
Genetic engineering is not the same thing as Eugenics. You don't know what you're talking about.

>>2523214
Lysenkoism does not go against 'Mendelian Genetics, Molecular Genetics, and Evolution through Natural Selection'.

>>2523226
>eugenics are real guys!!!1
Did you know that twin experiments were proven to be false, right? Without twins experiment, there is no basis for "intelligence" difference, the only real thing that matters between human races. And, thus, eugenics is a useless idea

>>2497828
this