Sooo…….Do you support making drugs legal?
To what limit and why or why not?
Whether for recreational purposes or sale, And how to combat substance abuse and life ruin caused by addiction and children's access to them if they're made fully legal.
Weed and psychedelics, sure other shit not sure, focus on treatment and prevention instead of war on drugs shit, some of the high level drug trafficking organizations need some level of violence to be dismantled
Drugs are already legal. The system would collapse without caffeine, alcohol, other stimulants, not to mention spiritual opium like TV and video games, screens in general.
>>2501575God you're such a faggot
I support limited legalization for some drugs which are presently banned by the U.S. MDMA, psilocybin, DMT, etc. should not be criminal to possess, sell, or use at all. What should be criminal is the industrial level mass-production, marketing, and pharmaceutical branding of them.
I support restricting these particular drugs entirely to the gray market, where it is completely illegal for the criminals who mass produced and marketed oxycodone to be involved. The pharmaceutical companies should be cut out entirely. The sale of MDMA, psilocybin, DMT, and other "lighter" "hard" drugs should be restricted entirely to small dealers and producers. The sale of heroin, fentanyl, oxycodone, methamphetamine, and some other drugs for recreational purposes would remain illegal. Individuals who lacked job opportunities and sold drugs because they had no other way to reliably make that kind of income will be given a monopoly on sale of the "less bad" recreational drugs like empathogens and psychedelics, and the large scale pharmaceutical companies will not be allowed to out-compete them. Those who sell drugs in general illicitly today will thusly have an incentive to reduce risk (to themselves) by not selling more addictive drugs, and will be able to openly sell drugs like MDMA and make more money doing that.
The legalization of these drugs flatly today would be a major handout to corrupt pharmaceutical companies, and would increase risk by allowing them to be pitched as "cures," or, potentially, marketed like alcohol and cigarettes if they are legalized for recreational use in a similar way to those other currently legal drugs. It would be a slap in the face to all those who were wrongly imprisoned or killed for selling substances which the government lied about. Gray market only for some substances but not others is the way to go.
While I think that recreational sale of drugs like opiates and methamphetamine should remain illegal, usage of them should be met with treatment, not criminalization. Broadly, we need massive jobs programs and economic reforms to drive down the price of necessities by discouraging rentseeking, and this will help to reduce the slide of the population into nihilistic hedonism. There are some people who don't understand, or pretend not to understand, the kind of impact it has on people's lives when they look at their prospects, see no hope, and just say "fuck it." Also guys like Richard Sackler need to be imprisoned for life, arguably shot.
Also I'm not here to debate how spooky and dangerous any of these drugs is. Just giving my 2 cents on policy, thanks. My views on the drugs themselves are informed by years of knowledge and experience.
imho weed tier drugs should be in state owned shops and even some harder drugs should also be in state owned shops but similar to car or gun there will be rigorous background checks and extensive classes on pharmacology and harm reduction to get a license. If you wanna sip lean or pop molly your gonna have to go to a tiny amount of med school first basically. However meth-heroin tier stuff should still be banned w/o war on drugs retardation. Also doing the cigarette carton gore but as a full mural on the side of the store as a PSA.
Narcotics are illegal in Communism
For starters, weed and psychedelics should 100% be legalized, bare minimum. There's no fucking good reason to treat them like they're on the same level as meth, crack, and heroin. I also think the growing, processing, and sale of these substances should be done by local co-operatives that are collectively managed and owned by their workers, with help and some oversight from people's councils & committees whenever necessary. As for the others, I personally lean more towards decriminalization for personal use, with an emphasis on rehab & safe use facilities for those who do any of the harder stuff, and those who get addicted or just otherwise wanna go clean. While only state-owned stores scattered across the nation should be able to legally sell these substances to members of the public; the sales of which are also highly regulated and the dangers of which are thoroughly disclosed to the buyer before any sales and on the product packaging itself.
Prevention, as prior anons have pointed out, is also a key factor to actually curb down on drug use. There needs to be a focus on providing stability and a meaning in life for people by bringing on a whole slew of economic reforms and public programs and by keeping a well-funded and well-maintained social safety net, and also one on removing the profit motive within healthcare and the pharmaceutical industry so that there's no repeat of the bullshit that happened with, say, for example: Oxycontin and its overprescription's eventual & inevitable explosion into the opioid crisis.
>>2501635There were no alcoholics in the USSR. Alcoholics commit crimes like hooliganism, violation of Communist workplace ordinance and family neglect, and end up in the gulag, reforming them and curing their alcoholism
>>2501715You contradict yourself since you admit the narcotic was legal.
>>2501730Wrong. Official Communist alcohol and Communist cigarettes are not narcotics. Narcotics like marijuana and moonshine are illegal in Communism to make superfluous the material condition that alcoholism and drug addiction are predicated upon.
>>2501730Wrong, alcool was banned under communism until 1925 when stalin restaures capitalism
>>2501737
Alchohol was legal so you did contradict yourself.
>>2501623>However meth-heroin tier stuff should still be banned w/o war on drugs retardation. No it should be permitted under supervision in a controlled environment, specifically it must be for clinical trials and chemical research. A suicide free way to approach them while still being beneficial to development since each experiment will follow up with detox and no volunteers would develop an uncontrollable habit.
>>2501755thats not unreasonable, they still keep smallpox around for research purposes after all
>>2501778
Your baits are boring and only clutter, Rule 14 - a) through g)
There's no reason for weed to be illegal. Alcohol should probably be more restricted than it already is, but I don't support a ban, especially not an immediate ban. Cigarrettes as they are should be banned, but they could be changed to be purer tobacco and maybe be allowed then, though more restricted. I don't know enough about psychedelics to have an opinion on them. Vapes should be banned. Harder drugs should be banned, obviously. Coffee is fine.
Weed, absolutely should be legal.
In many jurisdictions it was only outlawed because the alcohol and tobacco lobbies feared competition and that it would take their market share, as if people wouldn't smoke weed and drink together LOL.
Psychedelics so long as you don't have schizophrenia or something similar or a very high risk for it.
Personally I'd trust myself with coke but it's too high risk to be legalised to the public at large.
Meth and opioids? No way.
No ket either because we don't need a nation of people who need diapers by the time they're middle aged.
It shouldn't be illegal to kill yourself with drugs.
It should be illegal to kill other people with drugs.
>>2501603Screen addict detected
legalize everything including coke and heroin, this is harm reduction
as someone who lives in south america I prefer to see more junkies passing out in the streets than letting the narcos have more power, narcos fuck up everything.
drugs are bad
>>2502110You're unscientific and undialectical
I would probably put some type of consumption cap and continued medical monitoring for users, especially with opiates, meth, cocaine, and psychedelics
>>2502446There should be a consumption cap for everything regardless under a planned economy, hard to imagine that even under a socialized world that some cunts won't just hoard and accumulate shit just because money is not a factor.
alcohol and benzos should be illegal
everything else legal
In lower level socialism they should be decriminalized for harm-prevention.
In higher level socialism and communism all drugs (including alcohol) will be illegal for recreational usage.
And maybe create a safe psychodelics with no side effects, not possible at the moment but maybe in the future with socialism/communist tech.
>>2508083>In higher level socialism and communism all drugs (including alcohol) will be illegal for recreational usage.why do some people think socialism is about imposing as law their current moral stances on cultural issues? the people living under socialism will decide what they prefer, not some retard on leftypol wanking to his reactionary nofun tendencies
>>2501568>Do you support making drugs legal?yes
>To what limit and why or why not?usual shit like minimum age, regulated sales, limited max quantity, high taxes, accompany with health professionals/prevention
simply because its just playing with your brain chemistry to have fun and make social interactions easier, the main problem is health and addiction (and people doing stupid shit), but all these problem are easier fought if its legal. People are simply very spooked on this question.
>And how to combat substance abuse and life ruin caused by addiction and children's access to them if they're made fully legalits actually a lot easier to combat this if the drugs are legal, as science has shown that repression is shit at dealing with it while prevention, free healthcare and addiction specialist, safe spaces for drugs users work well
>>2508100 >moral stancesIt is a matter of public health, not morality.
I said in my post that we will get drugs with no side-effects in the future.
>>2501568Drug dealers should be given a death sentence. Alcohol and tobacco should be greatly restricted if not fully prohibited as well.
>>2508223>Drug dealers should be given a death sentence. Doesn't work. How many times have we been over this now?
>>2508225If it's effective or not doesnt matter. it's what is deserved for peddling death, addiction, and dependence to disadvantaged people.
>>2508083instead of this kind of declaration you could just say the need for drug abuse will wither away as peoples needs are met
>>2508567never going to happen when these unscientific chauvinists dumbfucks conflate use with abuse
>>2508568very true and i thought of that when i said it but couldn't think of a better word
>>2508223All trade / deals will be done away with under a planned economy. Prohibition of tobacco and alchohol coming from an irish nationalist catholic flag shows me you have to be a religious subhuman a reactionary, we'll kill you first and never prohibit any drug, we'll murder all the WODiggers and religious.
>>2508232Drugs are life, medicine, pharmacology, science, chemistry, rape all the catholic & religious men and women and kill them for stagnating science and human development for a millenia. Murder and rape all of you nationalist liberal vermin. Addiction never has been as big a problem as you made it out to be, religious retardation ruins brains, drug use comes with responsibility, death to all prohibitionists, death to all WODiggers, rape murder and piss on irish gobshites, infect your people with genetically modified disease and bring you famine.
>>2508589Drugiggers should all be drawn and quartered while being raped by bears. An hero, drugigger.
There wont be a need for drugs under socialism
>>2508225Go tell that to China
>>2508567Drug usage will mostly wither away too, so if most of the people won't be using them, why not ban them for the small number of people who would try them anyways? Never give them the option to OD or have a psychosis (drugs are addictive).
>>2508568I don't only want to prevent abuse, I also want to prevent use.
>>2508760Drug use is good, I want to prevent you from living.
>>2508620No we won't but you will be raped by elephants WODigger, end yourself before its too late.
>>2508762You won't be able to if you are convulsing on the floor.
>>2508767I won't be, pray to the cartel they won't upload you on watchpeopledie after
>>2508768I thought we were speaking about socialism, and there won't be cartels under socialism.
Why do you want to fuck your head and organs instead of waiting for the super safe and advanced communist psychedelics? Why do you have to have such a harmful "hobby" at the expense of the whole society?
Drugs are legal, but they’re only the ones that numb you out
>>2508775The cartel will dissapear when the profit motif has gone, when needs and demands are satisfied, have your WOD until you're ready to concede.
>>2508775Death to all AES and Lenin!
>>2508780Lenin is long dead, alive he may have been smart enough not to tamper with drug producers and users, too bad his followers have shit for brains.
>>2508805I don't think anyone here thinks capitalist war on drugs is a positive thing.
I don't know why I was called a WODigger.
>>2508810Prohibition is prohibition regardless of the mode of production its done in. Drug prohibition can only be reactionary and serve as a rejection of planning, why must consumers and producers be seperated as to deprive experimentation and personal utilization when you can't get inside a person's mind? Social conservative "communists" don't know anything they simply believe to know whats best for others and neglect science, chemistry, botany while coddling up to muslim, christian and other feudal superstitions, the contradictions show they are incompetent and too retarded to be able to say what drugs are beneficiary and what are harmful.
>>2508816no one talks about this unless you're yourself a drug nerd or researcher but as far back as 2006 there's been a whole psychedelic renaissance with all sorts of studies confirming what had already been known early into the history of LSD before it was scheduled: psychedelic substances (and stuff like ketamine that are technically a different class) have incredibly powerful therapeutic potential. unlike the sorts of legal psychoactive drugs like SSRIs that are prescribed by psychiatrists in the US, psychedelics don't treat the symptoms of mental illness (e.g. adjusting your brain chemical levels to some normative standard) but actually have the ability to cure mental illnesses. there's huge amounts of research into the potential for things like psilocybin, LSD, and MDMA to treat things like PTSD and addiction, and ketamine and DXM are both powerful antidepressants. we know neurologically that psychedelics induce neurogenesis and can make the brain form new synapses that essentially heal things like trauma on the literal physical level of reshaping your grey matter.
it's actually anti-scientific reactionary nonsense to be against legalization, even notwithstanding the whole history of the WOD being essentially the new war on communism after the Cold War ended. it's also nonsense to argue that there are certain classes of drugs that are inherently bad and others that are good, because generally people don't do drugs for the sole purpose of hurting themselves because they're just stupid and being tricked by pushers or something. most opioid addiction for instance originates in people having chronic pain or getting major surgeries, and of course the opioid crisis was created by pharma companies, who are the real pushers because they use the edifice of arbitrary drug laws to trick people into thinking that something is inherently safe medicine if it's legal and has no medical value if it's illegal.
WOD shit is actually one of the stupidest reactionary taboos that we've inherited from AmeriKKKa's puritanical history and it should be ruthlessly critiqued on many fronts.
>>2508816>why must consumers and producers be seperated as to deprive experimentation and personal utilization when you can't get inside a person's mind?Because they are harmful (some almost harmless like fungi but many are very harmful, if not physically then psychologically) and addictive.
>they are incompetent and too retarded to be able to say what drugs are beneficiary and what are harmfulI know they can be useful, that's why I said for recreational usage.
>>2508820>>2508827How is fentanyl necessary for the health of the species.
Degeneracy is not something real unlike health.
>>2508829>How is fentanyl necessary for the health of the species.Here is an example of you being an unscientific dumbfuck, a show of incompetence that demonstrates you are in no way legible to speak on the topic of drugs. Fentanyl is used medicially as an anasthetic for surgeries. You will now shift the goalpost to "fentanyl users" since i disproved that fentanyl is not some kind of absolute evil that must be destroyed, it is a necessary drug for medicine, medicinal fentanyl is a necessary anasthetic for surgeries.
>>2508833Are you retarded? I already said I am talking about recreational usage.
flood detected >>2501819To elaborate on my position, I think human bodily autonomy should be an inalienable fundamental right. Junkies and drunks are going to hurt themselves with drugs and they have the right to do that; society just has to deal with the ramifications and do everything it can not to enable their self-destructive behavior. When they rob or kill other people because of their addiction they have to pay the price just like any other criminal, but criminalizing the addiction itself is neither sensible nor ethical. It only further alienates them from society and makes their addictions worse, and their addiction is not a moral failing to be punished, it is a disease.
Drug distributors on the other hand, whether they be black market dope dealers on the street or legitimate multinational pharmaceutical companies, are outside the jurisdiction of bodily autonomy. They are selling products to other people that are dangerous and addictive and can kill them if they use too much or if the potency suddenly increases or the drugs are contaminated somehow, they are taking a risk endangering other people's lives to make profit and therefore they must be held accountable for that.
I don't get why people want drugs (apart from chemical addiction). Engaging in fiction is just as effective in making you feel fulfilled whilst being much more productive and helpful for you. Obviously opiods should be given on prescription to addicts since they need it to live normally, but apart from that, or maybe stimulants for soldiers so they can more effectively fight the bourgeois forces, I don't see why any drug would be needed in socialist society.
However, selling drugs is a good way way of gaining a revenue for the revolutionary vanguard.
>>2508856I'm mentally ill and I don't want drugs, I *need* drugs, just like a person with bad eyesight needs glasses or a person with no legs needs a wheelchair.
>>2508861
It's not really about cutting the link, it's about minimizing the damage that the drug producers cause to society. People selling knives aren't a major disruptive force in modern society.
>>2508852Why are you bringing suicide? I might as well say recreational ketamine which is not lethal.
>You want to blame drug usersWhy do you think I want to put them on prisions?
A rehabilitation program would work, and this only in advanced socialism, in the lower stages I said I want them to be decriminalised FOR RECREATIONAL USAGE.
>you cant prohibit cars can youWhen we finally have every street with multiple CCTV and if someone tries to suicide with their car it will be disabled remotely.
>>2508860>>2508858Why are you so obtuse?
Nobody here is speaking about drugs used for medical reasons.
No but you shouldn't become a cotton picking state slave for it as well.
>>2508873
>You on the other hand don't even think such a thing is beneficiary
They are a time-waster, you could get better past times like sport which keep you healthy or an intellectual hobby instead of zoning out in your couch for 8 hours or roaming the streets seeing things and speaking alone and disrupting the other people with your hallucinations.
>Recreational use is transhumanist
So?
>>2508878
I already said decriminalization and rehabilitation would go in different stages of socialism.
Has weed fucked your memory so bad that you can't remember a full sentence after reading it?
>>2508881
Watching football is not a sport, I meant doing exercise/a sport, it was my mistake, sorry.
>>2508878
The zapatistas were doing WOD btw, they prohibited them. Don't you see? They are literally the same as the CIA!
>>2508886
>>2508890
I seldom leave my house and I am not greek.
>>2508891
So they should've just let the mexican government fill them with drugs? That way they would've had a better time defending themselves, right?
>>2508895
I got carried on sorry, they had no change to begin with yeah.
>>2508865
>Drug producers cause no damage. Again you cannot explain how it is any different from anyone producing anything else that can result in harm or injury.
Well, it's a matter of degree. Technologies tend to become more powerful and disruptive as history progresses. Our society doesn't allow people to enrich uranium without strict authorization and supervision from the federal government because otherwise people would be building nuclear warheads and blowing up cities. Seems reasonable to me.
Drugs are a powerful technology, they save millions of lives, and they also destroy millions of lives, it is society's imperative to ensure that this technology is used carefully and responsibily for the benefit of society and not for its destruction.
>>2508760>>2508769>instead of waiting for the super safe and advanced communist psychedelic>why not ban them for the small number of people who would try them anyways??
they should be regulated. u wanna drink alcohol or smoke tobacco or weed or lsd go ahead. but you should require a prescription to get access to dangerous shit like oxycodone. or better yet it should only be used under supervision of a doctor in a hospital.
ban cocaine because only yuppies do cocaine and i hate yuppies
>>2508827animals eat drugs too. they get the urge to consume "poisonous" plants to help with ailments. i would even go the other way from normal people and say lots of food is drugs.
>>2508829>many are very harmfulpretty much just benzos and alcohol. the danger from opiates cocaine and meth comes from inconstancy in purity and financial problems from addiction. wealthy people can be completely functional crackheads or use heroine and back in the day non-ADD people would do meth for work, famously Paul Erdos the most ever cited mathematician would take dex when working on proofs. obviously thats not an endorsement for everyone to go smoke crack cause they probably dont have the social support he did.
My take is that if you've ever had friends or people very close to you go through seriously fucked up addiction problems, you would understand that regulation is absolutely necessary to prevent needless death.
Legal? yeah duh. But HIGHLY regulated for the drugs that are absolutely fucked. Hell, even alcohol is hell on earth for alcoholics, and it's right there for them to buy. My ex was obliterated by alcoholism, and I prayed to a god I don't believe in every day that she would come out of that hell. It was so fucked up man.
So yeah fuck any anarchist who thinks everything should be completely unregulated and laissez faire just on principle. Addiction is NOT a choice the vast majority of the time. And the worst drugs have hardly any positives, while decimating the lives of innocents for generations.
>>2508805>psychedelics are Schedule I because they reliably induce experiences that would make many people feel far less inclined to waste their lives working as wage slavesreminder
https://www.psymposia.com/magazine/lucy-in-the-sky-with-nazis-psychedelics-and-the-right-wing/https://archive.4plebs.org/pol/search/text/lsd%20made%20me%20racist/wasnt there some kind of new word to replace 'psychedelic' that means like confirmation bias?
>>2509006Clearly the issue is not the behavior itself but the ramifications of how technological advancements alter the scale of the behavior.
An example would be the indigienous population of the Americas before the arrive of European settlers. Drugs and alcohol were used extensively by every indigenous tribe, but it wasn't a social problem because they didn't have the technology to mass produce these powerful intoxicants in such quantities that it would have a major effect on their society. It wasn't until the industrial European settlers arrived that the indigenous people were introduced to the Europeans' mass-produced distilled liquor and then suddenly substance abuse became not only a huge social problem for the indigenous people, but it became a blight on their society that destroyed their culture and it still does to this day.
Decriminalize
I think drug use should be mandatory, like in Brave New World.
legalize all drugs just on the basis of cartels existing, the moment you see what illegal drug trafficking organizations do to a people you should know drugs being illegal is worse than being legal.
narcos with enough money eventually form paramilitary right wing deathsquads to overpower other narcos, then goverments hire them to also kill leftists, the criminal lumpenprole are also very fond of union busting by violent means.
>>2530118What about advanced socialism? I assume in that stage there will be little incentive for cartels and we will have the technology to prevent them
Yes I want fent to be legal so more people can die
>>2530142That would probably lower the death count tho
>>2530139in socialism there is even less reason to criminalize drug use, the problems of drug use spreading through a population will always be less severe than the power struggle between the people selling those drugs illegally.
also life under socialism will be better, people may be able to experiment with drugs from curiosity and not from a desire to cope from the shittyness of life
>>2507952in my state we're back to smoke shops just selling 4sub tryptamines like its the 2000s or sum shit. tbh its kinda fire that I can just go buy 4-aco-dmt gummies down the street.
nope
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