I know you American folks like to freak out whenever someone calls you treatlers and insinuate that you are collaborators in your government's imperialism and world raping. But let's be honest, between us, it is true right? I know the Theory of Treatlerism is not glamorous… but it is correct, right?
>>2502727"treatler" isn't a political economy theory and there is no such subtext
it just means that you are an annoying consumer, a conformist and, politically speaking, a coward
>>2502728>if no one buys it no one can produce itTell me you never worked a day in your life. We always produce and then sell. What a dumbass.
>>2502776>what do you mean oil is a finite resource? I drill hole and it is always there!didn't watch the video but your argument already lost
>>2502796Labor precedes exchange. Go neck yourself dumbass. How much did that rope cost? What about your suicide? Yet you did it for free.
>>2502803go and try and see for how long can your labor precede exchange if no one buys your shit
>inb4 but it is still technically possible to produce something no one wantsmidwit
>>2502810labour precedes exchange
seethe and cope, anti-Marxist twerp
>>2502810>go and try and see for how long can your labor precede exchange if no one buys your shitHow do you expect to build communism then?
>>2502727There is no validity to the concept. Mass produced commodities aren't luxuries by definition.
I hate other people having fun
>>2502903Congrats! You are a leftist!
>>2502903Join them in the fun?
>>2502922I don't like the fun, I'm above their type of fun, my type of fun is better but no one likes my type of fun so I do it by myself
>>2502925What's your fun?
>>2502728this video was posted to laugh at howard lutnick but somehow leftypolacks found a reason to argue about it.
howard lutnick is literally retarded. china can and will find other buyers. the world no longer revolves around the almighty burger
>>2502727More like you third worldists get upset when anyone is annoyed by your trolling and spam, which is your intention in the first place. How are you going to get upset at people being annoyed when that is your aim in the first place?
>>2502939Not a third worldist
>>2502758>"treatler" isn't a political economy theory and there is no such subtext>>2502895>Mass produced commodities aren't luxuriesSocialists define themselves by their petite bourgeois luxury consumption of coffee, produced through nonwhite child slavery. Their whole personality is sitting in shops being armchair pseudo-intellectuals who talk and debate like their fellow settler ally Charlie Kirk. Th political economy behind this class of globalist child slavers lets us understand why they all say "actually by raping the earth with Walmart's AI to achieve a technocracy, we're helping our slaves. The AI apocalypse is progressive". These neoliberal redditors don't have subtext, they don't read enough Shakespeare to be so literate, they're just
text>>2502903>I hate other people having funnoooo the left wing of capital would never consume the most valuable commodity! Human flesh is a taboo! Of course my radical free market anarcho Bidenist friends would never say 'Mmm hungy!' like Ron DeSantis!
>>2502964No, anyway here's another video of tucker carlson denouncing the international jewish conspiracy…
>>2502964USApol = nazis, all of them
>>2503032
There is only one good thing about worstEmpanada and that is his hatred of America
>>2503039Treatlerpost + chagospost makes USApol explode
>>2503050>>2503039The great victims of this world
Will somebody think of the
children americans ?
>>2503050they targeted gamers
>>2503061Who what why when where how
>>2503050>now I have to spend all day petitioning the governmentThey make it seem like calling your congressman is duel to the death
>>2503082what do the 12 belgian boys think about the Theory of Treatlerism?
>>2503091Lasagna for the party officials but not for the workers who need to be humble
>>2503099Do they think treatlerism has revolutionary potential?
>>2502727It’s cyberpunk but shittier
>>2503113Thats a capitalist soda you have on the right
>>2503118No, not what i meant
Leninade was produced in post soviet russia
In the USSR, proper communist soda was less whorish
>>2503121Shut up ultra, if it's red and says lenin it's communist
>>2503126Bottled soda was sold as well
Refer to
>>2503125 >I know the Theory of Treatlerism is not glamorous… but it is correct, right?What the fuck
is it? See
>>2502758You know what, just because this thread is so shit, I'll add some flaming:
TREATS ARE VALID TOOLS FOR MORALE BUILDING OF THE COMMUNIST MOVEMENT. ANTI-TREAT RHETORIC IS IDEALIST ABRAHAMIC GLORIFICATION OF POVERTY >>2503126>the soda vending machine had a single glass from which everyone took their turns drinking.herpes if true
>>2503126>>2503125>>2503130>>2503354The concept is legit and sustainable, but it should not just be a single glass for proper sanitation.
>>2503357It could be a single class if their was some kind of auto sanitation mechanism. Maybe there is, but it doesn't look like it.
>>2503360But beyond the sanitation thing, I don't want to drink my whole soda in the time I would want to be standing next to the vending machine. It just don't work.
>>2503126From RBTH
https://www.rbth.com/history/332037-ussr-vending-machines-virus>The following would usually happen: once it was your turn, you inserted the coin, selected the flavor, put the glass under the dispenser, got your drink, drank it right there in front of the entire line, and put the glass back. There was a special cradle with a grill underneath, allowing for the glass to be washed. You would have to turn it upside down, press down hard, and a modest water jet would spray it on the inside. (So modest you sometimes still saw lipstick stains!)>The machines would undergo periodic maintenance, which included washing the glasses out with hot water and a soda-based solution. But that didn’t happen daily. >The question, then, is: did the USSR ever suffer epidemics of infectious diseases as a result? And the answer is a big fat “yes”. A lot of them! However, in all the years of use, a link between the vending machines and the spread of infectious diseases had never been publicly acknowledged.<[…]>So, were the Soviet people even aware of the dangers? Some of them, yes. You could always see one or two people in the lines that always had their own glass ready. Others flat-out forbid their kids from ever going near a vending machine.>There were even silly urban legends, claiming that the glasses could give you syphilis. One of them had appeared during the 1980 Olympic Games in Moscow, when the country was flooded with foreign tourists. Someone spread the story that African-Americans, “who had syphilis”, would wash their genitals in the glasses at night.>>2503357Or, at least, have a modern sanitation method. I'm not an expert but you could nuke the glass in a radiation chamber what could possibly go wrong
>>2503361>I don't want to drink my whole soda in the time I would want to be standing next to the vending machineYeah, seriously, it's insanely inefficient. Imagine having to skull a whole cup because there's a huge damn line. Just bring a damn flask.
>>2502758it just means labor aristocracy. the theory of labor aristocracy of a whole nation, or at least a representative majority of that nations workers, has historical precedence in certain periods of 1800s british empire. how much of this applies to the modern us depends on how you want to split the data, it could be just union bosses, it could be well paid sectors like tech, or even the middle class insofar as that is a thing as a whole, it could be most people invested in electoral politics for both dominant parties, it could be people who own their own homes, or with access to pensions retirement savings and 401ks and invest in stocks, or it could be the majority of all citizens. by any of these metrics though there is a section of the proletariat that is bribed or bought off by access to treats.
>>2503359>Instead what are you talking about? The bottom tier fast food?What do you think is the level of bribery that would change the average workers material interests to be aligned with the imperialist bourgeoisie?
>>2503386>What do you think is the level of bribery that would change the average workers material interests to be aligned with the imperialist bourgeoisie?Does that not apply to the "periphery" as well?
>>2503387yes i originally typed "first world workers" but you might see that it is not in the post because it is of course applicable to both. but it is also the case that the periphery does not usually have the resources to bribe a significant section of the workers which is why we usually talk about comprador bourgeoisie because imperialists generally simply bribe the people who own the country in question instead of workers directly though that comprador may pass on bribes to police forces etc. but we do of course see many liberal type working class people in major cities with comfortable jobs that do align themselves with their imperialist masters this is however a minority
when we talk about a periphery to the question what level of bribary in regards to the average workers its a hypothetical level that the average worker would switch sides for, but in reality this would only be available to a minority section. but when we talk about the level required to turn an average worker in the imperial core we also have the second question, are there countries which capture enough surplus value internationally to bribe the majority?
i think for the average american its somewhere around 100-250K depending on regional cost of living. thats about 40% of americans, so not the majority. but something like 90% of them will be vocal supports of either the democrat or republican party and their policies, and that 40% is also a majority of the roughly 60% of the population who actually votes. so imo the us does qualify as a nation led by and for aspiring petty bourgeois treatlerite ladder climbers
>>2503359Purity-spiraling isn't a counter-argument, because every single term on the planet has dipshits flog to it to misuse it however they want.
Doesn't change the fact that those that abuse service workers are reactionaries and Treatlerites.
the question isn't one of purity but pragmatism. who is the revolutionary subject? if it is the case that most workers are materially aligned with reaction then its not them. but is that the case? for who? were the black panthers correct that the lumpenproletariat and colonized internal nations are the revolutionary subject? or have the conditions changed and it is now something new like the precariate?
>>2503403>Doesn't change the fact that those that abuse service workers are reactionaries and Treatlerites.Yeah I'm one of those service workers. I've done my bit of Door Dashing and shit. I saw Haz Spazzing about how much he hates the Door Dash workers that bring him food. Honestly I don't really care. Honestly the money is what matters to me. I barely interact with the customers. I only really am mad at them when they fuck up the delivery instructions like not including the gate codes to their fucking apartment. Also not tipping me well, I don't really obsess over that kind of stuff, I see the numbered offered in the original message and go from there. I am not mad at people for buying their carbon polluting orders from fast food as long as I'm duly compensated. I am grateful for their patronage even. Actually as a delivery driver I much more have a negative opinion of the other service workers, they have a tendency to be not so friendly when they don't think of you as a customer. They often seem to be miffed by the delivery service creating more work for them. I know some delivery drivers probably are also rude. I find liberals tend to feel some kind of guilt for ordering delivery and are effusive in their thanks and honestly that shit means nothing to me.
Are Americans who """""""flee""""""" to Canada, Europe, or other developed nations with better social welfare states treatlerites (alongside the native citizens already living there)? I wonder if a lot of these leftie burgers who became leftist due to (rightful) frustration with economic inequality, reduced opportunities and things all around and singlemindedly obsess over wanting to make the US more like Europe (which yes, we do actually need universal healthcare and much better public transportation) just deep down wanna move to a developed country with universal healthcare and then drop their support of leftism so they can become center-left/center/center-right/center-whatever Europeans. Europeans are already treatlerities in their own way, given how much they love posturing about being superior to the US despite being very dependent on them and not willing to actually go leftward and resist US imperialism beyond meaningless cultural posturing, all while allowing their own far right movements to gain power within their own nations, if not voting for them themselves. Guess it's OK to hate immigrants and drown them as long as you're technically better than the US, right? /s
>>2503407It's not about guilt, it's about lording what tiny power you have over another, treating them as less, and feeling entitled to do so.
>>2503407>They often seem to be miffed by the delivery service creating more work for them.i imagine those are the kind that would be insanely miffed by regular customers just as well, but not show it
>I find liberals tend to feel some kind of guilt for ordering delivery the only person i've talked to that didn't order delivery for that reason was a guy that worked in delivery himself for a while but he proclaimed to be socialist, didn't get to interact with him further though sadly
>>2503357don't worry the local lumpens would sanitize them with alcohol pretty often for the benefit of the people
>>2503416I guess. I never worked a real service job before that. I worked indoor sales. I'm a psycho tho. People get a vibe about me. At my indoor of my sale jobs, one of the other sales ladies said: "why is he so nice to you? I use to have stress dreams about this place." Like people get the vibe I'll smack their lights out or worse. I'll never let no man raise his voice at me. Last time anyone raised their voice at me was a long time ago and I backed them down with a calm voice and they started talking about calling the cops.
>>2503386>material intereststhere really isn't such a level outside of imperialism assuming we're not doing the silly "actually it's a complete zero-sum game" thing.
But the point at which people think they'd rather keep things going even if it disadvantages them and profits the intranational porkoids seems depressingly low IMO.
>>2503419When you get psycho-tier, you realize only people more psycho then you can't back down. People ain't wanna imagine someone can break in their house and skin them alive.
You bitch, you dirty coward. You better be ready to kill me here and now. That's the psycho tier you need.
>>2503386>What do you think is the level of bribery that would change the average workers material interests to be aligned with the imperialist bourgeoisie?We can check with professionals to see how much loyalty costs.
For one example, and I'm sure there are better examples, the DPRK remote worker scheme got Western citizens (incl. US) to run work laptops in their house and let DPRK workers remote in and do high paying jobs.
>In Chapman’s case, a 2023 raid of her suburban Arizona home found an elaborate staging area with 90 laptops in an organized setup to track which device was meant for which worker, prosecutors wrote in court records. She labeled each device with notes identifying the associated company and the corresponding stolen identity, photos from the raid show. Authorities said she aided workers in the scheme for three years, at one point becoming so inundated with tasks that she needed to hire two assistants to help her. >According to court records, Chapman helped the IT workers verify stolen identities so they could pose as real U.S. citizens and installed software after the companies shipped out laptops. She helped the North Korean workers log in remotely, and then kept the laptops organized and safe at her home so that U.S. companies would believe the North Korean workers were located in the U.S.>Authorities said Chapman shipped 35 packages to Dangdong, China, a city near the North Korean border, and helped ship at least 49 laptops and other hardware to China, Pakistan, the UAE, and Nigeria. She also helped them cash their checks by accepting their payments and depositing the money in her bank account before transferring it over to the workers. >She charged the North Korean workers $176,850 in fees for her services, according to the memo. >She pleaded guilty to being part of a scheme in which IT workers sought remote jobs at 309 companies, generating $17.1 million in compensation that was sent to North Korea. >>2503035it's a clickbait title. his real argument is "don't join a union that is nationalist, chauvinist, and imperialist, like the ILWA who made an exception for military cargo and allowed it to reach israel even during their strike"
but that wouldn't have been a catchy title for Muh Clicks so people just see the title, don't even reach the point in the video where he explains his full position, and Assume the worst.
The majority of Americans are proletarian and they will go homeless if they lose their jobs. Go psyop somewhere else with your "trealter" BS
>>250345866% of Americans supported Vietnam
75% of Americans supported Iraq 1
85% of Americans supported Afghanistan
70% of Americans supported Iraq 2
90% of Americans can't name a single CIA operation that overthrew socialism in Latin American countries, and don't give a shit what happens to people who aren't American.
American fascists literally say things like "I just wanted to play video games, but now you're making me kill the transhumanists and brownoids"
>>2502959Your are an retarded. I hope you're poop wolrd country is bomb.
>>2502727>>2503458Usoids can literally buy military grade equipment at McWalmart with credit but choose to do nothing but consoom and McFlip burgers proves treatler theory correct.
>>2503468>Your are an retarded. I hope you're poop wolrd country is bomb.Least illiterate and genocidal citizen of Burgermanland
>>2503469treats are not the reason, the reason is there is no existential threat that makes paramilitaries worth it
>>2503480>treats are not the reason, the reason is there is no existential threat that makes paramilitaries worth itAdmitting burgerbourgeois status, the real working class has nothing to lose but their chains by organizing with or without being threatened.
>>2503486What makes any of that advantageous over simply vooting like Marx suggested?
>>2503489How's the weather in Langley?
>>2503486this isn't true though? in even the most underdeveloped states this isn't true, you don't just suddenly get up and go "i must overthrow the bourgeoisie", you only do so when there is an existential threat (economic and political crisis, war, etc), this has been proven constantly
>>2503493I did not say or imply to immediately overthrow anyone. The simple act of organizing and arming themselves which Amerilards can legally do but have chosen not to since 1776 proves an inheretley unproletarian character. The most that has ever been done by burgermen is occupy wallstreet, a lib protest with mean signs and interprative dances.
>>2503458THE BURGER REICH MENACE WILL BE BUCK BROKEN BY PROLETARIANIZATION.
HOW TO PROLETARIANIZE THE BURGER REICHER? BY SUBTRACTING THE ELEKKKTRIKKKAL GRID FROM HIS LIFE!
COMMUNISM = AMERICAN WEAKNESS MINUS ELECTRIFICATION OF THE WHOLE COUNTRY
>>2503497that is what's being implied, consciously or not, you're stating something that has far as i'm aware, never happened, and also the americans have done far more than just occupy wall street, you have no clue what you're even talking about, at one point in time (from the 1880s-1940s) they were literally the heart of labor organizing, the event that created the international worker's day did not happen in europe, it happened in the USA
>>2503500>the americans have done far more than just occupy wall street, you have no clue what you're even talking about, at one point in time (from the 1880s-1940s) they were literally the heart of labor organizing, the event that created the international worker's day did not happen in europe, it happened in the USAAll unrevolutionary reformist movements of the labor aristocracy for better pay and work less hours, was J6 revolutionary? International labor Day is a meaningless holiday that symbolizes American contentment with their treatlerism from global capitalism.
>that is what's being implied, consciously or not, Where have I mentioned the American government or ruling class? I simply stated that the American people have the legal right to arm and organize themselves but choose not to. Is telling you to buy a computer and stay vigilant the same as telling you to hack the FBI?
>you're stating something that has far as i'm aware, never happenedHappens all the time everywhere else on the planet including the founding of both the Bolsheviks and CPC. Not even just for leftist movements but anticolonial movements as well. Even Hongkong libs did more to organize in their failed color revolution than Americans ever did to achieve actual sociopolitical change in their 'society'.
>>2503524>All unrevolutionary reformist movements of the labor aristocracy for better pay and work less hours, was J6 revolutionary? International labor Day is a meaningless holiday that symbolizes American contentment with their treatlerism from global capitalism. i don't know how you got that from it, but these movements were indeed all revolutionary and weren't just for "more spoils from imperial plunder", they were often quite militant and radical, more so than even much of the european strikes at that time, likewise i used international worker's day as a representation of this tendency
>Where have I mentioned the American government or ruling class? I simply stated that the American people have the legal right to arm and organize themselves but choose not to. Is telling you to buy a computer and stay vigilant the same as telling you to hack the FBI?here's what i believed you implied "Americans are able to purchase weapons at a rate unheard of in any other country, they are not doing this and this is because of treats", a statement i disagree with because while the first part is true, the second and third parts are not, americans do buy weapons and in fact do arm themselves, the reason they don't do anything with this is because there is precisely nothing threatening them, in fact for a similar example, why are the worker's in russia, despite having a large number of guns with a pretty good availability, not forming paramilitaries and overthrowing the government? is it because of treats from central asia and the caucasus? is it because of a reactionary society? no, it's instead from the fact there is no existential threat to do so, no motivation to risk their lives for a better world
>Happens all the time everywhere else on the planet including the founding of both the Bolsheviks and CPC. Not even just for leftist movements but anticolonial movements as well. Even Hongkong libs did more to organize in their failed color revolution than Americans ever did to achieve actual sociopolitical change in their 'society'.to address your example, it's not true either, the hong kong riots of 2019 were a petty bourgeois movement, and were also not risking much either, and what i am saying "has never happened" is that workers have risen up, despite not having an existential threat (like a political and societal crisis or war) and overthrew their government, that isn't even true in either of your first two examples, the bolsheviks emerged due to a pre-eminent social crisis in the late 1890s and early 1900s, and first became an actual movement in 1905 with the aftermath of a war, they didn't even overthrow the government until said government had lost a war, the CPC also was formed in the midst of a political crisis and war too, and also did not emerge as a major player until social and economic crises in china had happened, and yet again did not take power until after a major war which the KMT had barely won. and also, which anti-colonial movements exactly? did the mau-maus just suddenly get up one day, discontent with colonial occupation and start shooting british military units? no, they rose up due to the discontent in much of the african and asian colonies following both the first and second world wars, the same is true for algeria and a number of movements, and to state it again, just so you don't forget it, the proletariat has no reason to attempt revolt or large societal changes, without any existential threat on them, like the ones i keep repeatedly mentioning, as otherwise, it is an entirely futile effort only conducted by the petty bourgeoisie, who even then do it only because they see an existential threat, like in your hong kong example, they only rioted precisely because they saw further chinese influence as being precarious to themselves
Oh fuck I'm glooowing, I'm GLOOOOOWINNG AAAHHH
>>2503547i think the mistake is thinking that you need these intelligence agencies to cause severe idiocy like this, a lack of knowledge and a lack of thinking is enough to produce this idiocy without any direct or even indirect influence
>>2503540>i don't know how you got that from it, but these movements were indeed all revolutionary and weren't just for "more spoils from imperial plunder", they were often quite militant and radical, more so than even much of the european strikes at that time, likewise i used international worker's day as a representation of this tendencyRevolution does not mean the continuation of capitalism but with better working conditions Socdem and being more radical than imperialist Europe at it's height is not an accomplishment.
>>2503547Are we to not alienate the Israeli 'working class' too?
>>2503611>Critique of American inaction to do even the bare minimum of organizing<CHINA CHINA CHINA MR XI JINPING MAO DENG ISRAEL REVISIONALISM GLOWIE SHILLtiresome and you wonder why someone made this thread.
>>2503614Reformism is not socialism no matter how hard you sanders voters claim it is.
>>2502740This probably doesn't mean anything, we should only look at the top image and ignore the bottom one
>>2503540>>2503540>here's what i believed you implied "Americans are able to purchase weapons at a rate unheard of in any other country, they are not doing this and this is because of treats", a statement i disagree with because while the first part is true, the second and third parts are not, americans do buy weapons and in fact do arm themselves, the reason they don't do anything with this is because there is precisely nothing threatening them, in fact for a similar example, why are the worker's in russia, despite having a large number of guns with a pretty good availability, not forming paramilitaries and overthrowing the government? is it because of treats from central asia and the caucasus? is it because of a reactionary society? no, it's instead from the fact there is no existential threat to do so, no motivation to risk their lives for a better world
>to address your example, it's not true either, the hong kong riots of 2019 were a petty bourgeois movement, and were also not risking much either, and what i am saying "has never happened" is that workers have risen up, despite not having an existential threat (like a political and societal crisis or war) and overthrew their government, that isn't even true in either of your first two examples, the bolsheviks emerged due to a pre-eminent social crisis in the late 1890s and early 1900s, and first became an actual movement in 1905 with the aftermath of a war, they didn't even overthrow the government until said government had lost a war, the CPC also was formed in the midst of a political crisis and war too, and also did not emerge as a major player until social and economic crises in china had happened, and yet again did not take power until after a major war which the KMT had barely won. and also, which anti-colonial movements exactly? did the mau-maus just suddenly get up one day, discontent with colonial occupation and start shooting british military units? no, they rose up due to the discontent in much of the african and asian colonies following both the first and second world wars, the same is true for algeria and a number of movements, and to state it again, just so you don't forget it, the proletariat has no reason to attempt revolt or large societal changes, without any existential threat on them, like the ones i keep repeatedly mentioning, as otherwise, it is an entirely futile effort only conducted by the petty bourgeoisie, who even then do it only because they see an existential threat, like in your hong kong example, they only rioted precisely because they saw further chinese influence as being precarious to themselvesThere's a literal PPW in my country and nobody is invading us and the government is completely stable.
Flood Post discarded. Flood Post discarded. Flood Post discarded.
>>2503628And before someone projects not everyone lives near the conflict, share the same language, or have the means to join.
>>2503126>>2503362should have had an autoclave built in smh
>>2503628>There's a literal PPW in my country and nobody is invading us and the government is completely stable.which country is this? philippines? india? peru?
>>2503386I mean literally just the pay and benefits of a cop should be the line denoting labor aristocracy.
>>2503653you forgot the third panel where the bridge is gone now
>>2503622>Reformism is not socialism no matter how hard you sanders voters claim it is.those were Lenin and Marx quotes
>>2503611
Xi is too busy to making china great again to hear retarded ramblings from soylefts from the west that have never achieved anything and always attack the countries that actually had the balls to do a left wing revolution.
China has better treats than America. Bigger malls, better food, cheaper consumer electronics. Sad.
>>2503361>>2503357>Bossman keeps me too busy to be waiting around for a soda>It's also disgustingly unsanitary, oh my subscription based dating app has just let me know I can have sex with a complete stranger tonight, I better pick up condoms so I don't get HIVI feel like you fear the communal soda dispenser for reasons very much rooted in capitalism
>>2504276>>2504280>goalpostingReformation and socialism are inherently two different things. r/antiwork tier concessions are not the same as a dotp.
>>2505017Nobody was advocating reformism under capitalism. You just assumed that. You didn't read what you were actually responding to in either situation. The goalposts weren't shifted because nobody was advocating the thing you suggested they were advocating in the first place. They just clarified and ignored your strawman.
>>2505284>Nobody was advocating reformism under capitalism.can you people at least learn how to read a thread?
>>2503540>>2503524>All unrevolutionary reformist movements of the labor aristocracy for better pay and work less hours, was J6 revolutionary? International labor Day is a meaningless holiday that symbolizes American contentment with their treatlerism from global capitalism. >>i don't know how you got that from it, but these movements were indeed all revolutionary and weren't just for "more spoils from imperial plunder" None of those quotes had anything to do with what was originally being talked about. What was being discussed were movements done specifically for reformation under capitalism. All those quotes are taken outside of the context that socialism needs a dotp which those movements did not try to achieve.
<They just clarified and ignored your strawman.so
>>2503614>Revolution does not mean the continuation of capitalism but with better working conditionsis still completely true.
So may day is a reformist oppurtunist holiday then
>>2505350Yes dibshit, a meaningless celebration of zero socialism or revolution being achieved or attempted for retarded libs like you
>>2505351Good. I dont want revolution. I just want to work less
>>2505354>I just want to work less>I dont want revolution.good luck with that. just remember to voot for blue maga in another 4 years and maybe just maybe your nephew won't get victimized in a school shooting.
>>2505358My nephew is a commie who will die in an attempted revolution instead and i will blame you activist voluntarist commieuyghurs for this.
>>2505363Good for him, at least he'll do something with his life. How's that ethnostate coming along old 4chuddie?
>>2505370How is CHAZ doing anarcrakkker?
>>2505372>he thinks I'm an anarchist. >he thinks I'm a glowie. >he thinks I'm huwhite. I feel bad for you. Nobody ever said anything other than organize and buy arms legally. Keep seething eternally online however about the 'commieuyghers' all you want though.
>>2505379>>2505391It is useless to specify whiteness when the person is American. ALL Americans are guilty, including ethnic minorities and sexual minorities. We must stop acting as if blacks or latinos are muh victims. They are also willing participants in treatlerism and they are complicit in their fascist empire’s crimes.
I don't have time for your autistic meltdown as satisfying as it is to see.
>>2505398I agree but it's painfully obvious to see who's white here when their last result is racial slurs to 'win' a discussion.
>>2505403>>2505398Treatler is not even a meme at this point
Before
>my fellow american worker, you live in the belly of the beast, you have the hardest job ahead of you
Now
>we must glass america with nuclear fire because food delivery
Socialism has gone woke folks
>>2505412>we must glass america with nuclear fire because food deliveryHave you ever noticed that only you're the only ones who keep saying this when you get criticized? Zionist like behavior.
<my fellow american worker, you live in the belly of the beast, you have the hardest job ahead of youThis is what I'd like to say if you people actually tried. Not everyone is Iron Felix.
>>2505406You are right. It is not a meme but the scientific theory describing the 21st century
>>2505428The american worker has the hardest job hahahahahha
>>2505553I also hate women smiling and having a good time
>>2505651
Because it is not populated by americans.
>>2505553Does her gash look as bloody as those pork rolls?
>>2505651
It has the productive forces that everpony gets the treats, not just a handful of people that think if everyone got treats they would no longer have any.
>>2505662Bronies are the worst treatlerites. Gtfo ennemy of the revolution.
>>2505677He says on an anime website
>>2505677Chill tf out my neigha
>>2505649Then you're in the right place.
>>2505652
>Everyone I don't like is a secret russian nationalist.
Tiresome.
Anyone unironically using zigger outside of /ukr/ is just outing themselves as a hysterical lib.
>>2505553>ginger hair and dark green eyes that is mostly associated with Irish people who used to be under famine>American accent>gorging outEpigenetics or just cultural assimilation?
>>2506136>american accentWell there's several but yeah sound like New Mexico probably, maybe a subtle bit of californian in there.
>>2502964yes, like apparently me and my neighbors are all welfare queen lumpen parasites despite being gainfully employed for simple fact of being stuck in burgeria. its cuz maoist first wolrdist are just white suburbanites going insane from being surrounded by there petty boug peers and project that onto everyone else in the entire country. literally just fox news boomers that read settlers
>>2502964Are microwaves still a thing or did people realize that shit was a scam?
>>2502964>>2506248tbh it sounds like "not all men" strawman cope. if you are "one of the good ones" you dont have to say it because the critique doesn't apply to you. the majority of politically engaged americans, that is the voters, are either temporarily embarrassed petty bourgeois ladder climbers or spiteful bigots trying to fuck over their neighbors. it obviously doesn't apply to the 1/3 of the country living in destitution who has no political representation or power and is socially disengaged whether they have iphone or not but they hold a minority position.
if you want to dispute that fact you need to actually provide data to show that households who own real estate make 100K a year with a 401K and pension are the revolutionary subject, or that lumpen precariate with 3 gig jobs that gets evicted every other month is the revolutionary subject, and how the material conditions show that to be the case, or that the data shows there is a significant third demographic being left out of the conversation.
who is the revolutionary subject that should be targeted for education and organization and what is the plan? how large is this section of american workers and what is the path towards actually mobilizing them to win?
>>2506389The only reasonable answer would be logistics and warehouse workers, along with what’s left of manufacturing workers. Truckers as well, if you could destroy and replace the teamsters or coup it from within there’s not much the bourg could do.
>>2506400
No shit, the alternative is homelessness and jail
>>2506399good call, small but strategic, even addresses the treats. average wage for teamsters and longshoremen is only $22/hr ~45K/yr
>In 2024, 16.2 million persons (10.3% of the U.S. labor force) worked in the transportation and warehousing sector and related industries (e.g., automotive manufacturing) —up 0.9% from 2023. The increase brought total employment to a record high (with data beginning in 1990).however
>Military cargo exception: ILA President Harold Daggett confirmed the union would honor its pledge to handle military shipments, even if a coast-wide strike were to occur.>Following a three-day strike in October 2024, the International Longshoremen's Association (ILA) confirmed it would allow military cargo for U.S. troops to continue moving, which included shipments bound for Israel>This decision came during a wider port shutdown on the East and Gulf Coasts over contract negotiations with the U.S. Maritime Alliance. >The International Longshoremen's Association (ILA) represents upwards of 85,000 longshoremen on the Atlantic and Gulf Coasts, the Great Lakes, U.S. rivers, and in Eastern Canada, Puerto Rico, and the Bahamas. They are the largest union for maritime workers in North America.
>The International Brotherhood of Teamsters has approximately 1.4 million members and 500,000 retirees in the U.S. and Canada,
>Teamsters are an outlier among unions in the United States when it comes to Palestine and Israel’s ongoing genocide. Unions representing the majority of unionized workers in the US have passed resolutions or made statements pressing for a ceasefire in Gaza — including within some conservative unions. But not the Teamsters, whose history includes heavy investment in Israel. >>2506405
yeah but i think theres a synthesis here with black panthers organizing lumpen and the gig economy. you could put the screws on the treatlerites by unionizing uber eats and delivery drivers but it might provoke a fascist counter reaction. it would depend on if you can achieve critical mass in support and whether the average person would be horrified by the national guard gunning them down or say they deserved it. i think the biggest obstacle is convincing people on the principle that corporations want, for example, illegal immigration because it suppresses wages and that the problem is the corporations not their fellow workers
>vast majority
i really think its only like 60% but they are the ones who vote, the question is would they actually take up arms to defend the status quo? i think they are too comfortable and you have a large minority of people who are very uncomfy. there are way more lumpens than cops
>>2505651
They run on Labubus
"Treatler" ideology believers should post hand, because I want to see what the whitest and softest hands on the planet looks like.
My problem with treatlerism isn’t necessarily that they have treats in the west that people outside the west can only dream of that they don’t want to lose, it’s more that there’s this contradiction between, on the one hand recognising that western powers imperialise the rest of the globe and providing vocal support to resistance movements abroad, but then on the other denouncing the idea that perhaps combatting western imperialism is as much or even moreso their task as it is for the third world victims as they crybully via treats, in claiming it’s only because of a weekly Deliveroo that anyone suggests combatting western imperialism is their responsibility.
>communists then: its the petit bourgeoisie that is fuelling fascism
<communists now: its the working class which is fuelling fascism
i wonder what changed in the analysis? 🤔🙄
>>2506586Imperialism, consumer capitalism
>>2506587>if you even breathe as an amerikkkan proletarian you are stealing from the third world. all white crakkkers need to be exterminated.this is not a communist ideology.
>>2506588you are 1) strawmanning 2) assuming
not every american has to a labor aristocrat for the majority of them to be and the majority of them are not proletarian by many metrics. the case can easily be made that the introduction of retirement plans, home ownership, and widespread participation in the stock market makes a majority of them petty bourgeois, which would make them the shock troops of the haute bourgeoisie in their fascist project as the market continues to consolidate deeper into a handful of monopolies creating a downwardly mobile class of reactionaries that willingly produce and consume propaganda about their position being the fault of the poor and minorities which is them amplified by the very bourgeois who created the problem as it of course benefits them. the materialist analysis of fascism shows that it is the end result of imperialist expansion running into its limits and turning inward and we see a perfect textbook example of this transition in the united states. the only final ingredient left is a communist movement failing to reach critical mass and being crushed by the state.
if you want to contest this you need to come with material analysis of your own
>>2506588Right, the absolute nonsense you just wrote isn’t, but consumer capitalism placing the western proletariat as the beneficiaries of foreign labour and imperialised resources does result in the kind of person who rejects solidarity with workers both at home and abroad on the basis that capitalism is about “trade” where labour is exchanged for a Dodge Charger and therefore any anti-capitalist sentiment exists solely to eliminate that fair trade for reasons of jealousy.
That being said, capitalism in the west is already shit canning the consumerism part because capitalism no longer needs to be the “humanist” alternative to the “Stalinism” that no longer exists, quickly we’re retvrning to labour ultimately being exchanged for the money to pay rent with and thus treatlerism is not likely to be an issue in a couple of decades. Arguably, Zoomers already started to reject consumerism because cars and smartphones are just necessities now that are also a significant expense while the luxury brands that boomers and gen-z happily went into debt to buy are so expensive now relative to the average wage that even the monthly credit card repayments on buying a Rolex is some serious scratch and therefore they turn to replica watches, shoes, clothing, accessories, etc
>>2506593>most (50% <) of american workers are NOT proletarian>if you pay into a pension you are bourgeois>if you pay into a mortgage you are bourgeoisyou are fundamentally irrational.
>>2506594>if i buy a commodity i personally am exploiting a third world workerseems that class relationships no longer exist in your worldview, where individual consumers exploit people. unless of course you are implying that to have white skin is to be inherently bourgeois, which is the fullness of your worldview. as i say, youre not a communist.
>>2506604>you’re making me personally responsible for the collective! >you’re just anti-whiteYeah, you’re not succeeding at blending in here with those particularly wild strawman arguments.
>muh treatlers
>muh consumption
>>2506606>youre making proles responsible for the bourgeoisieyes, precisely. youre an idiot who thinks that every western citizen is born with original sin.
>anti-whitein effect, yes.
white = bourgeois
black = proletarian
that is the essence of your worldview
>>2506612That would make blacks like more than a half of world's population
So the problem doesn’t start at the point of buying a Dodge Charger where its
>Leather for the seats is sourced from India
>The steel from China
>The rare minerals like Cobalt for the electronics from Africa
>The rubber from South America
>The oil for the fuel from Syria
Etc, etc, the issue comes into play where people intuitively understand that if all of those countries and regions were expecting to have living standards like that of the US, their $50,000 car would likely cost $500,000 and from that deciding that they’re not interested in any of this anti-capitalist nonsense and that’s the fault of the third worldies themselves for living in such poverty because of designated shitting streets and corrupt drug cartel-supporting dictatorships and anyone calling the Dodge Charger an article of imperialism are just jealous, anti-white and don’t understand that third worldies are inferior economically because they’re genetically inferior sorry not sorry get over it wokies.
>>2506617>their $50,000 car would likely cost $500,000this sounds like thinly veiled turd worldism
>third worldies are inferior economically because they’re genetically inferior sorry not sorry get over it wokies.aha no just fashoid nonsense
>>2506612but what about the baby settlers
China is now the biggest receiver of imperialist profit flows. China has a $1.5 trillion trade surplus.
>>2506646Really? More imperialist than the West?
>>2506663Thats a stolen surplus value of proletarians
>Critique of American inaction to do even the bare minimum of organizing
<CHINA CHINA CHINA MR XI JINPING MAO DENG ISRAEL REVISIONALISM GLOWIE SHILL
Tiresome
>>2506693>do somethingThats voluntarism. You know, in respectable communist places, like ussr, for example, people get fired from their posts for voluntarism, like Khrushev, for example.
>>2506705If you're genuinely saying that volunteerism is the same thing as simple organizing or that America is at all comparable to the USSR, I don't even know what to say.
>>2506706Workers dont possess consciousness and all their strugglings are unplanned and spontaneous. You cant force organising. You cant force maturing of le workers. You are voluntarist revisionist dilettante intellectual unreliable
ctrl+f 'china'
18 results
the absolute state of burgers
>>2506708>Workers dont possess consciousness and all their strugglings are unplanned and spontaneous.<Class conciousness does not exist>You cant force organising. You cant force maturing of le workers.You can literally convince people to organize and learn why a dotp benefits them more than a liberal democracy.
>You are voluntarist revisionist dilettante intellectual unreliableIrrational accusation envisioned by a simple mind.
>>2506709A complete and utter adversion to as this one says
>>2506705 '>do something' says it all. It really is just pure lazyness and easier to strawman foreign countries for them.
>>2506711<workers dont posses consciousness>class consciousness doesnt existReally?
>>2506714Moron that is literally what YOU tried to argue. I just rephrased your statement for you.
>>2506715Workers dont possess class consciousness. Only party as a whole has class consciousness. Not its individual members, whole party. Not a single individual, no matter how well versed in theory he is, posseses class consciousness. Proletariat, as a class, exist only so far if it has a party. Without party it is only a class in a statistical sense and not for itself.
>>2506716>Workers dont possess class consciousness. Only party as a whole has class consciousness. Not its individual members, whole party. Not a single individual, no matter how well versed in theory he is, posseses class consciousness. Proletariat, as a class, exist only so far if it has a party. Without party it is only a class in a statistical sense and not for itself.An individual can have class conciousness, it's as simple as recognizing that if my landlord raises rent it is not in me or my fellow tenants interest to let that happen. Maybe I should organize with my fellow tenants. Have you ever tried thinking for yourself as an individual before?
>>2506718>muh thinking for yourselfYou might as well subscribe to le great man theory
>>250671>muh thinking for yourself<I can't think for myself!!! My Head hurtie!!! Are you just trolling or retarded, it doesn't matter talking to you as a waste of time since you can't fucking think anyways.
>You might as well subscribe to le great man theoryGreat man theory is literally the opposite of thinking on an individual level.
>>2506720You need to be 18 or over to post here. Also reading Marx first won't hurt either.
>>2506724>muh readingNeither of us are party members, it dont matta
>>2506728Go back to whatever shithole site you came from and stay there.
>>2506724There is no such thing as individual thinking.
>>2506732Tell your mom that she would very proud that she carried you for nine (or less) months.
>>2506733I don't know and I don't care. You're too retarded even for here, stop before your future self cringes at you.
>>2506734What are you talking about?
>>2506737Figure it out on your own.
>>2506736Thats a future me problem. Also,YOU wont do jack shit about your economic situation.
>>2506739>Also,YOU wont do jack shit about your economic situation.More projection and strawman. Tiresome.
>>2506740Okay you WILL do something about your economic situation and nothing else.
Don't have time for your stupid games kid. Goodbye.
>>2506744Good bye have a great day
>>2506716>Proletariat, as a class, exist only so far if it has a partyanon confuses class-in-itself for class-for-itself
>>2507155>cowes love knäckebrödgrundat?
>>2506389>tbh it sounds like "not all men" strawman cope. if you are "one of the good ones"getting annoyed at armchairs with main character syndrome isnt a cope is just a reflection of a specific type of annoying leftypol poster. "the critique" is basically being an r9k user who thinks read settlers is good theory, why tf I gotta owe mfers data when some shitter is shitting up the thread lol.
>that is the votersvoters are the worst this country as to offer nonvoters are just better
>lumpen precariate with 3 gig jobs that gets evicted every other month large group but not everyone in the 401k group is automatically precariat, imho theres no significant third demographic but moreso a bunch of smaller ones like
>>2506399 mentions.
>who is the revolutionary subject that should be targeted for education and organization and what is the plan? how large is this section of american workers and what is the path towards actually mobilizing them to win?fuck if I know
>>2502959The peasants who produce coffee are less exploited than baristas. Do the math, use the labour theory of value, its a fact. Workers using machines are more productive than small family farms. The only reason third worldism has any purchase at all despite being contrary to everything Marx and Lenin wrote is because the worker's movement has dominated by petty capitalists since the 70's.
The average British white guy is more exploited than a Vietnamese peasent. And "exploited" doesn't mean "suffering", not any of the Badempanadite University Students and Professors who are frothing at the mouth to wrecjk the PROLETARIAN movement give a fuck, despite the fact they've never been exploited or suffered a dsay in their fucking lives.
>>2507878"Communism" is the only movement where Badempanadite and Sakaist Univeristy Students and Professors can move to a third world world country, live a lavish lifestyle funded by dollar contributions while railing against the "sins" of people who actually fucking work for a living.
>>2507883I never brought up services. Baristas aren't service workers, they're produce vendible commodities. Customer service workers are service workers because they don't produde suplus value. Even a porn star who produces a DVD film or porn movie is more proletarian than an Indian customer service worker because they produce a vendible commodity (Adam Smith).
>>2507809theres a wide gap between read settlers third worldists and principled analysis of labor aristocracy.
>large group but not everyone in the 401k group is automatically precariatyeah i was saying theres two groups the 401k group who are a new type of petty bourgeois and the precariat who are lumpen. the first being a part of the FDR new deal which was ultimately a compromise to stop communist revolution after ww2 while industry was booming and the big bourgeoisie could afford concessions. the actual proletariat is small but growing, the problem is that lumpen arent moving up, its petty bourgeois getting pushed down and becoming reactionary because there is no organized movement to educate them.
>>2506690Is that what imperialism means?
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