/leftypol/ - Leftist Politically Incorrect

1. i hate historical hypotheticals because we all have hindsight that they didn't.

2. 1981 is too late. go back to 1979 at the very least and either IMMEDIATELY INTERVENE IN AFGHANISTAN before the stinger missiles reach the mujahideen, or stay out of the quagmire entirely and let taraki get overthrown. the soviets instead waited for taraki to request soviet intervention 3 times before intervening reluctantly. this made the occupation of Afghanistan that much more ineffective, and they couldn't save the socialist govt. in Kabul.

3. really even 1979 is too late. You have to prevent the sino-soviet split at the very least. Let alone other questions like revisionism.

Decriminalize all drugs, pornography, rock music, leather pants (but we're keeping jeans banned tho cuz fuck them)

>>2505483
I'd scheme with friendly party members to purge the army and party asap to ensure these are filled with loyalists, then revert all the market mechanisms introduced in the planned economy and pull a tiananmen square in case an uprising would occur.

1. Stop being goody goody in afghanistan and actually genocide the tribals.
2. Bring back frequent stalinist purges, deportations of whole chechen nation etc, gulags back to stalins days
3. Give more importNce to cybernetics
4. Revert the kosygin reforms amd go back to more planning
VVe mvst retvrn

>>2505504
>>2505502
>market mechanisms
Why do you seem to oppose the Kosygin reforms ? I thought they were effective at bringing economic growth ?

>>2505509
kosygin and brezhnev are liberal wreckers

If i was chairman, i would purge all revisionists and careerists and use hoxhaism as a model to rebuild the communist party

gotta get a lil dengist wid it. start growing the ussr/prc economic sphere. how do you prevent capitalists from degrading the state apparatus. idk

Just literally don't make repeated idiotic decisions non-stop like gorbachev, and the union would survive til the computer age and internet, and that alone would solve a bunch of problems

>>2505534
hoxhaism failed, thoughbeit
why venerate failure?

>>2505509
It depends on how do you calculate & define said economic growth, as when profitability were introduced, indeed worker wages of some enterprises that profitted had grown and so the money circulating in consumption, but industrial productivity ( aka produced commodity per time, worker etc. ) stayed the same, ( this is alike to inflation increasing the gdp/gdp_growth , since money circulating in the economy grows in size ) the reform overall just created a soviet economy that was also influenced from the new internal market ( and by that market the union had fallen into fiscal crisis by 1980-1990s)

I get the nuclear codes a launch everything I have at Israel

>>2505540
Reverse great man theory, the contradictions ran deeper than the mistakes of one man

>>2505616
>>2505552
12 belgian boys wrote this

>>2505483
first things first, I shoot gorbashit, yakovlev and all their ilk, rehabilitate stalin and shit on kruschev
then I start getting friendly with china
get out of aghanistan, but not before helping najibullah to get in power and still providing heavy support to him
internally, I focus on building cybercommunism and investing in computers and networks. I calm down on the censorship (eventually getting rid of it altogether, modern capitalist states show very well controlling the media space indirectly is more effective and less criticized) while ramping up secret service surveillance of foreign and internal anti communist activity (you're in a position of power, literally all your live is watched, you're an important intellectual/journalist, heavy surveillance by default)
then with the rise of internet like network try to build more direct democracy and control from the base (allow dismissal of elected officials, control organs with members selected by sortition, shit like that)
should be a good start

>>2505509
>Why do you seem to oppose the Kosygin reforms ? I though they were effective at bringing economic growth ?
Kosygin's reforms objectively don't work.

i remember when threads like this came up to promote that crisis in the kremlin remake or bloc, good times :D

>>2505534
>>2505682
Did they do anything in particular rather than letting broad corruption ? Was there anything within the reforms that structurally fucked the party ?

>>2505557
interesting, any idea how in particular ?

>>2505641
so cybersin and anti-revisionism

>>2505483
They couldn’t. Shits been fucked for a long time now. The already faulty foundations have missed too many repairs and has been used ways it shouldn’t have. It’s a salvaging operation right now. You aren’t fixing jack, you’re crash landing this burning rotten garbage can and hoping you get out the wreckage with just enough to start a new, better project.

>Lastly, would a soviet model as it was intended to work in practice be actually desirable as a socialist model
Probably would better than what ended up actually existing to be honest.

The USSR's death was put in motion with the de-Stalinisation speech of Khrushchev.
Imagine, a mere 40 years after the establishment of the USA, the then-president makes a speech denouncing everything about it and saying how all executed enemies were in-fact wholesome fellas.
As Norm Finkelstein said, the de-stalinisation speech was the single event which decreased the membership of Communist Parties in the west the most. It put in people's head that what was being denounced as 'western propaganda' was right all along. Once this happened, the West gained the moral high ground, explicitly in the West, implicitly in the East.

>>2505704
>Did they do anything in particular rather than letting broad corruption ? Was there anything within the reforms that structurally fucked the party ?
It wasted resources and money for very mediocre results.
>>2505616
>Reverse great man theory

Avoid avoiding these policies in the image, would have lead to the USSR surviving. See how stupid Gorbachev is in the third image. (Source "the great Soviet economy" by Alexey Safronov, third one by Vladimir Zubok collapse.

I would also leave a link to to the essay "Alexander Yakovlev, Glasnost, and the Destruction of Soviet Societal Consciousness". I don't think most people understand how hyper centralized the USSR was, and what "Glasnost" actually was.

I don't see anything of this happening if Romanov or Grishin became general Secretary.

https://web.archive.org/web/20220718180837/http://www.soviet-empire.com/ussr/viewtopic.php?f=110&t=52073

>>2505483
The problem is that the USSR after the great purge was essentially a personalist dictatorship where the rule of the communist party was delegitimized in favor of the general-secretary. So as a result one person could just unilaterally do retarded shit like glasnost. The problem to tackle is basically trying to decentralize power from yourself to the communist party as a political organ, unfortunatley this opens you up to attacks from other people vying for your position. Here is a list of things that need to happen for socialism in Russia and Eastern Europe to succeed.

1. Abolish the position of general-secretary and purge the party of apolitical bureaucrats, instead of general secretary take on the position of president of the RSFSR.
2. Institute a new curriculum of Marxist education and testing for all communist party members.
3. Centralize power around the communist party while also decentralizing power within the party.
4. Build a political consensus within the party to make descisions based on the parties collective self-interest rather than the individual self-interest of different party members.

After this is done you can turn to economics, just do dengism basically because the USSR needs to properly progress through the capitalist mode of production and not that retarded idealist nonsense Stalin tried to do in order to skip capitalism. Afterwards more fundamental issues need to be tackled like for instance:

1. Dissolve the USSR since it became a vehicle for Russian dominance and replace it with a EU styled pan-communist political organism where different communist nations around the world can be represented, with the longer term goal of eventually unifying all communist parties in the world to a single one.
2. Create a Marxist inter governmental task force dedicated to countering color revolutions, essentially their whole purpose is to snuff out and counter western backed color revolutions before they start, or they will to act as first responders to any color revolution that begins.
3. Invest heavily into AI and automation and actually lay out a proper road map to achieving the communist mode of production so people have something to restore their hope in the future.

Other issues like systemic Russian chauvinism will need to be tackled aswell. But this is kind of why the USSR was always doomed after the purges, after all the communists were murdered you pretty much just have a bunch of bureaucrats who are selfishly trying to proctect their own positions rather than conducting a global revolution. The odds of a proper communist getting into power and executing the proper reforms became increasingly slim as the rot in the CPSU became more ossified over time. The real change you need to make is have fanny kaplan shot before she could kill Lenin so he could construct an actual political apparatus and not a slap-dashed one constructed by Stalin after the power vacuum of Lenin's death. You essentially need what China got with Mao living for decades and stabilizing communist party rule. Which Mao being the revolutionary who took power meant he was always more legitimate than Stalin so he didn't need to do any great purge style affairs within the party so level headed people like Deng took power after him instead of wackos or apolitical despots. The same would be true of Lenin's rule, im sure Stalinoids will seethe but this is the truth they don't want to hear.

>>2505483
I didn't see this mentioned yet: try and prevent the Chernobyl disaster from happening. Not only for the obvious humanitarian or monetary reasons but due to the aftermath of the disaster leading to the allowance of enviromental organizations separate from the political control of the party. These organizations quickly became hot beds of national chauvinism and separatism and were a direct contributor to the loss of political control, particularly in the Baltics and Ukraine.

>>2505822
>2. Institute a new curriculum of Marxist education and testing for all communist party members.
would be good to extend this to the general population
>Centralize power around the communist party
>Dissolve the USSR
pick one

>>2505822
>1. Abolish the position of general-secretary and purge the party of apolitical bureaucrats, instead of general secretary take on the position of president of the RSFSR.
>2. Institute a new curriculum of Marxist education and testing for all communist party members.
>3. Centralize power around the communist party while also decentralizing power within the party.
>4. Build a political consensus within the party to make descisions based on the parties collective self-interest rather than the individual self-interest of different party members.
>After this is done you can turn to economics, just do dengism basically because the USSR needs to properly progress through the capitalist mode of production
Thiis like correcting course to avoid an iceberg only to just nudge the wheel right into another one.
>and not that retarded idealist nonsense Stalin tried to do in order to skip capitalism
Marx was the only one suggesting to skip capitalism. Neither Lenin nor Stalin attempted to do so. Their plan was state capitalism.
>Dissolve the USSR
It’s Joever

call up beijing and beg for forgiveness

>>2505849
Big China

Legalize weed, put a mandatory quota for 50% women in the admnistrative positions such as the politburo, free HRT etc. Great man theory isn't real but there's no reason we can't all have fun during the collapse

>>2505841
Your a retard if you think the communist party and the USSR are synonymous. A new communist party of the RSFSR will be founded and will govern the nation. But you are probably a Russia fellater so as a result having Russia gape your asshole is what you are primarily concerned with.

>>2505868
except debunking great man theory is about arguing that anyone else in their shoes would have been influenced by their material conditions and thus do the same things,not about an individual not being capable of enacting change, and someone appearing from the future definitely does noy follow the logic of the former argument,since you are completely aloen from the original context (maybe you could argue you would be sidelined by the rest of the party I assume)

>>2505843
>Thiis like correcting course to avoid an iceberg only to just nudge the wheel right into another one.

Only if you are anti-Marxist and are underaged. Stop with the idealism and read some theory.

>Marx was the only one suggesting to skip capitalism.

LMAO you are anti-Marxist as fuck aren't you? Please show me some more ""Marxist"" takes friend.

>>2505905
>Only if you are anti-Marxist
I’m a communist. Even Marx wasn’t a Marxist, so this is fine by me.
>Stop with the idealism
I’m pretty sure you don’t know what that means.
>LMAO you are anti-Marxist as fuck aren't you?
Because I actually read Marx and related works?
https://www.marxists.org/archive/deutscher/1948/marx-russia.htm

>>2505916
>I’m a communist. Even Marx wasn’t a Marxist, so this is fine by me.
And now you out yourself as underaged with no actual political convictions beyond Stalin worship
>I’m pretty sure you don’t know what that means.
Nonsensical non sequitur not really helping your case lol
>Because I actually read Marx and related works?
Oooo so we are cherry picking Marx now? Wellll let me just go ahead and ah there it is. Please we can do this all day, and mind you I don't worship the ground some people walk on like you and Stalin.

>>2505930
>And now you out yourself as underaged with no actual political convictions beyond Stalin worship
>Nonsensical non sequitur not really helping your case lol
>Oooo so we are cherry picking Marx now? Wellll let me just go ahead and ah there it is. Please we can do this all day, and mind you I don't worship the ground some people walk on like you and Stalin.

Can you like chill out man. I’m not even from that tendency.

>>2505951
Man I don't really give a fuck what tendency you are from. If you are going to criticize my positions or proposals offer criticism with actual substance or the only thing I can critique is your character. Actually say what you would propose instead of just saying random bullshit.

>>2505902
that's just changing the names of things

>>2505902
if you would please consult the meme

>>2505967
>If you are going to criticize my positions or proposals offer criticism with actual substance or the only thing I can critique is your character
Or just ask. Just say you did not understand the statement. Don’t just start critiquing my character when you know nothing about it.

The critique is that while you did bring some good ideas to the table, you ultimately negated that when you introduced dengism, and arguably made things worse by adopting an ideology that promotes more openness towards capitalist tendencies.

More military aid treats and intervention help for the afghani communists, humanitarian aid treats for derg ethiopia and zero treats for vietnam

>>2505483
Try to figure out how to significantly cut military spending without getting overthrown or destabilizing the country by unleashing a horde of unemployed soldiers.
The Soviet military had three main purposes:
1. Deter foreign aggression.
2. Assist the spread of Soviet power and communism in foreign lands.
3. Hold the Soviet Union together by force if necessary.
Now let's examine these.
1. Nuclear weapons already deterred foreign aggression enough, there was no reason to spend such a huge portion of the economy on the conventional military.
2. To the extent that this succeeded, it did not help the Soviet Union one bit once the Soviet Union started to collapse.
3. This didn't end up happening when the Soviet Union started to dissolve, for the most part the military just stood aside and let the country disintegrate. So the resources spent for this purpose were wasted.

I'd just chill like Brezhnev did. USSR and Eastern Block won't have gone anywhere even in 50 years.

>>2505981
shit ass meme, a party can spew the rethoric of representing the proletariat yet be isolated and alienated from them because without direct means of the masses influence it's all word of mouth and a bunch of retards that take being the vanguard for granted, not a duty to respect, practical effect is the whole Brezhnev era and forward from that.

engage in dengist reforms

Market socialism with worker owned cooperatives and soviet councils everywhere. Supreme soviet with a prime minister as head of government and chairman of
CPSU as the head of state and armed forces. A strong constitution with supreme court and peoples courts could counter-balance centralized state power and offer solution to corruption and unlawfullness in the government.

Saving the union won't do anything for socialism, so I let It rip

>>2514666
>I'd just chill like Brezhnev did. USSR and Eastern Block won't have gone anywhere even in 50 years.

That's not a good solution. While I do hold the view that doing nothing starting from Gorbachev, would probably have USSR survive for an extended period from when it fell, the fact remains there was structural problems that needed to be addressed, such as updating infrastructure, and industrial equipment and technology.

>>2514695
>>2514678
>Market socialism with worker owned cooperatives
>engage in dengist reforms
That was what Gorbachev was doing. Did it badly, changing plans constantly admittedly, but he was trying to do capitalist restoration. Capitalist market reforms was always going to cause an economic, and a societal crisis.

>>2505685
>bloc

Now there's something I haven't heard of in a long time

purge

I would admit that the Leftcoms are right and then immediately get assassinated

Build more Gulags

That's like asking how do you stop a tsunami

>how could the soviet republics have managed to keep unity and rivalize with the west whilst maintaining an image of a viable alternative to normal people from the 1980s-onwards ?
Essentially follow the plan that Andropov had laid down and it could've worked.
The big problems that the USSR faced was that it had a chronic shortage of goods, inneficient and bloated labor, and nepotic officials. Solving this was a prerequisite, whatever your ideas may be. To that effect, I think a two-fold solution would've been adapted to succesfully enable a return of soviet-ism as a viable model :

>modernization, rejunevation of the party, and better accounting.
The nomenklatura would've been purged, at the expense of political stability. The ambition would be to ally with the army and the with the KGB to purge party members and replace them with new and more cooperative ones. This line would've extended to nepotic officials too and would've essentially achieved the capacity to actually enable reforms. Following this internal purge, the nomenklatura should've pushed to cater to consumer goods. A retreat from afghanistan and a drastic reduction in military investments should be made to ensure proper funds for the public and a consolidation of a solid consumer base. This also means adopting greater cybernetics to succesfully dispose of calculation potential to adequatly plan the economy. Local managers would've gotten more leeway in firing and hiring workers, whilst also seeing the very real threat of being fired from their public offices if the results they showed were underwhelming and inconsistent. Ideally, the funds serving for the army would be diverted into funding information loops through technology from the stores to the companies charged with production. The firms would transition from a gosplan/ministry-imposed material balance to shops telling which firm what to produce to make a profit or balance even.

>step 2 : succesfully expanding the economic reforms to catch up with Europe
If we take for granted that the previous reform had worked in rejunevating the consumer base in the USSR, a second part would be established to not lag behind western economies but actually compete with them. Imo, this could be done through market mechanisms, supply side innovation, and planning mechanisms. The idea would to split enterprises producing for the market into multiple smaller enterprises. For every market demand, they would all produce the same amount of good slightly exceeding demand (by 10 - 20 products). The enterprises would then develop specific processes and innovations to differentiate themselves from the other companies (with financial incentives to be the "winner"). This simulated competition could push supply-side innovation onto the consumer market. Similarly, R&D developments could incentivized by permitting the employees of a given firm to enjoy greater salaries if the company managed to lower production cost. A potential risk would be firms lying about their production cost, but this could be avoided with sufficient controls. To further expand on the consumer market, a special ministry tasked with developing new industries for the consumer market could be created with ample ressources to ensure growth in the latter. Lastly, the creation of co-ops would be highly encouraged. These would work like the yugoslavian firms in theory: small firms of voluntary people [voluntary as people could just go back into their old positions if the co-ops didn't work] democratically choosing what and how to produce, and redistributing fairly the profits in the form of wages or other. This in my eyes would've been enough to create a sufficient consumer market capable of rivaling the western one. Expanded onto eastern europe, and the need for autocratic controls lower (see china irl). This leads me to my last point.

>enforcing a positive international view.
Had the previous reforms worked, it could be supposed that the soviet model could be seen as competitive and viable. To make sure the world would take notice and consider the old soviet union as an alternative, I would double down on exposing the bourgeois manipulation of markets, by giving financial support to the third world etc. In essence, the foreign policies of the USSR weren't so bad, they was one of the few things which they did well. Now, given greater funds, these policies could be pushed even further.
Lastly, I would introduce local democracy for the workers and the state. Essentially, the system would be a bit bonapartist. The head of state controls all matter pertaining to the global country, its reputation, its military, its national affairs, but the rest (consisting mainly of local policies) would be decided through democratic vote. We could even have recurring participative-democracy to ensure an actual rivaling model to that of the liberal representative countries.


This imo could save the USSR and rebuild its worldwide reputation. Thoughts ?