🗽UNITED STATES POLITICS 🦅
<Comrade Brezhnev, Please Send Aid To Appalachia EditionThread for hellish discussion of the Dying Burger Reich:
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>>2513142Remember to filter mass tor baiters, feds, and trollsNot reporting is bourgeoisViolators will be launched from trebuchet >>2514998that quote's fucking stupid
>you need to know the history of another country to know their bourgeoisie is reactionary >>2514998Heh, good quote and universally applicable with this thread. I always find it funny about how these non-Americans have zero self-awareness. They made it a meme about Americans:
>Let me tell you about your county!But they all do that about America all day and I don't even think they realize it because in their minds they think they actually CAN tell us about America! because they consume so much American media and news that they think they're actually American or something.
>>2515001It's not a stupid quote. It's totally on point. The Marxist-Leninist principle of Revolutionary Defeatism requires you prioritize the defeat of your own bourgeoisie rather than manufacturing consent against foreign countries your government is at war with or preparing for war against. That is the context of the quote. Lenin said that in the context of WW1 when the Russian equivalent of "patsocs" were going around saying "umm the german bourgeoisie are worse than our bourgeoisie actually and we need to critically support our own government against them in WW1."
Trust in the proletariat of other countries to wage revolutionary defeatist civil wars against their own governments, while you wage revolutionary defeatist civil war against your own. Unless you do that, you end up policing the proles of other countries for not opposing their own government enough, which is always always always a race to the bottom.
>>2515011didn't the jews have that one big part in the story of Christ? I forget the details.
>>2515009beautiful AI slop
>>2515013signing on
death to zionism
death to israel
not a zionist
just a history knower
don't get it twisted
there were 5 sects of Judaism in the 1st century CE Roman occupied Judea: Pharisees, Sadducees, Zealots, Essenes, and early Christians. The early Christians mostly preached to Jews and only later became a gentile-majority religion. The specific people who wanted Jesus in the gospel story dead (a story which may or may not be historical) was not "jews" in general but specifically the pharisee leadership in jerusalem who lobbied the Roman occupied government of Pontius Pilate to execute Jesus. One speculated reason for why the crowd chooses Barabas to survive over Jesus was because Barabas was a Sicarii rebel who had killed Roman soldiers.
signing off
death to zionism
death to israel
not a zionist
just a history knower
don't get it twisted
Zero percent chance I date a white woman tbh
>>2515020Me too but for different reasons than you.
Electoralist cucks continue to believe that Zohran supporting regime change in Venezuela is actually a 4D chess move. Me? I'm gonna vote for whoever Hasan "Dog zapper" Piker advocates for.
>>2515020I love watching your mental breakdown from reading Settlers
>>2515020Damn, after they've all been clamoring to date the perpetually almost homeless e-beggar guy.
American women kind of suck in general of every race and class but it's been discussed to death and you can do it further in your containment thread incel:
>>>/siberia/708795 New thread, new reminder that if you dont eat your meat, you cant have any pudding
>>2515027i don't want your piece of shit pudding. can make my own and better
>>2515025That threads been slow ever since Newgene stopped coming around
>>2515020same but it's because I have hardcore yellow fever
>>2515018(adding)
As always the truth is more complicated than people make it out to be. Religions are fundamentally syncretic and always evolving.
>>2515027>>2515028Both of your puddings taste like shit. But I'll eat them anyways because I'm too lazy to make my own.
>>2515037Prisoners of the American Dream by Mike Davis is much better at detailing the class cuckery of some sectors of American labor anyway
>>2515037Member when Sakai twisted around William Z Foster’s words intentionally to claim he was threatening to lynch black people? Pepperidge Farm remembers.
Also the bit where he comes up with tables and graphs explaining which percentage of workers are “labor aristocrats” without ever defining how he got those calculations or what constitutes a “labor aristocrat”
>>2515037> is a book more recommended than anything by Lenin or Marx is by the western left. Is it? I've only ever heard it mentioned on this website and pretty much only to strawman posts and insult people like that poster just did to you.
I think I've maybe seen Howard Zinn's A People's History recommended the most.
So next Saturday, the 18th, is going to be another round of those No Kings protests. While the protests themselves are controlled opposition, as are the main organizations behind them Indivisible and 50501, it's also true that mass gatherings of people who are fed up with the current thing are good opportunities for networking and radicalization of normies. The easiest way to make use of these protests is to gather a group of people together that you trust and make a giant banner or two calling for the end to the capitalist system of robbery and murder, no sanding off edges or watering down the message. If nothing else, having militantly anti-capitalist messages in large text will show other leftists that they're not alone and that it is in fact possible to organize, including for things that have a tangible impact on the state. If you've got your own little anti-capitalist section with the fellas, you can also turn it into a demonstration on things like security culture or direct action planning. The idea is to build public affinity with those sympathetic to communism without simply rushing in guns a blazin attacking the cops, much as we may want to.
>>2515044> calling for the end to the capitalist system of robbery and murder, no sanding off edges or watering down the message. Fox News might genuinely broadcast that shit everywhere in an attempt to red paint No Kings protesters which would also be kino and funny
>>2515046Let them. They already paint anyone who's opposed to MAGA as a communist who wants to murder white American babies, might as well sell it to the public that Trump is a direct consequence of bourgeois democracy and that only an end to capitalism can break us free from the cycle
>>2515048bourgeois? proletariat? communism? capitalism? what are all these fancy words. I'm just an american. i don't know what those words mean. isn't communism when dictatorship like trump? isn't capitalism just freedom plus markets? why do you want to take my toothbrush? i'm very confused.
>>2515037>>2515042I've been seeing notable Sakaioids online like BRG say that white people are misinterpreting Settlers and how Sakai didn't say that white proles were hopeless, but rather that they had a history of being class traitors.
>>2515044>The idea is to build public affinity with those sympathetic to communism without simply rushing in guns a blazin attacking the cops, much as we may want to.I feel like trying to network through protests is meaningless because libs are too invested in the status quo and anyone at a protest is already in the NSA database for mass surveillance. Their primary value might actually be the potential for spontaneous violence. But the average leftist/liberal is not enough of a psychopath to show up to a protest in cop cosplay and shoot a toddler or some shit to trigger revolution. Only rightoids are morally bankrupt enough to do stuff like that.
>>2515051If you have the numbers absolutely, set up a booth, hand out zines and shit, organize, etc. Affiliating it with any one particular org especially a cult like Revcoms of course is a bad idea, just have a mix of basic Marxist and Anarchist introductions to Why Thing Suck and What You Can Do. As much as we love shitting on Houdini, the dude admittedly has a pretty good reading list that would be useful as a template
>>2515052Let me explain it in Burger speak
Capitalism is when you work for your bag, but boss takes most of your bag despite not working for the bag.
Socialism lets you keep your whole bag
Trump is the ultimate bag taker, and our current system enables bag takers
Take back your bag, fellow burger!
>>2515051This is kind of interesting too. The RevComs seem to have a secondary front group group that doesn't specifically mention them and is supposed to be an "anti-fascist coalition." That's smart to have a group that doesn't specifcally mention communism that you can bait the anti-Trump people who might be allergic to the word communism.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Refuse_Fascism>Refuse Fascism was formed by a broad ad-hoc coalition of leftists, liberals, intellectuals, artists, and activists including members of the Revolutionary Communist Party (RCP), after the 2016 election.[1] The RCP has said they issued the call to action which launched the group.[2] Responding to the call, an emergency meeting which officially launched the group was convened at the Great Hall at Cooper Union in New York City, featuring speeches from Sunsara Taylor, Immortal Technique, PZ Myers, Carl Dix, and Jeremy Scahill, among others. Statements of support were sent from Gloria Steinem and Chase Iron Eyes.
>Refuse Fascism has been described as having "ties" with or "linked to" the RCP.[3][4] Spokespeople for Refuse Fascism include Sunsara Taylor[1][5] and Carl Dix.[6][3][4] The group partially operates out of the RCP's Revolution bookshop on 132nd Street in Harlem[5] and shares a mailing address on West Broadway with The World Can't Wait.[7]
>During Trump’s second term, Refuse Fascism has returned to its call for the removal of Trump by peaceful means. The organization has conducted protests against Trump’s immigration policies, executive order on birthright citizenship, bombing of Iran, opposition to gender affirming care and use of military for domestic purposes. In its “Statement of Unity and Principles,” Refuse Fascism encouraged solidarity with all organizations and individuals wanting to peacefully stop Trump and his policies. https://refusefascism.org/ Sakai was right. Look at the state of the white zoomer.
>>2515051I've realized now that the feds can just bootstrap a million dumb cult versions of "Communism" to distort and vulgarize Communism, while actual Communists get drowned in a sea of noise made by the cults. Communism has to succeed on its own merits as a practice and theory, rather than on the strength of "communism" as a label.
>>2515057They're coming after all of us sooner or later anyways, it doesn't matter if we try to stay hidden and keep our heads down because again the very idea of being opposed to Trump is treason in the eyes of the current administration. So we might as well at least try to network with people while we can to form the much ballyhooed cadres and do stuff that matters.
>>2515059The problem is that said front groups make themselves look a lot bigger than they actually are by marching in front of totally unrelated protesters and using clever photo ops to pretend like they're part of some big movement when all it is is a front for a cult of personality for a balding expat. When they're unable to correctly mobilize for photo ops the results are pretty embarrassing
>>2515064meant to reply to
>>2515056 1. Trump has to be overplaying his cards with traumatizing feds, militarizing cities and terrorizing families with ICE. Normies are not on board with this fascist garbage especially in light of the fact that the economy is getting shittier and shittier. Like if Trump keeps being stubborn we are unironically going to sizzle because even normies are realizing they have nothing to lose at this point
2. Nobody with a basic understanding of geopolitics is actually falling for this gaza ceasefire meme right?
>>2515060white zoomers are the product of 20 years of propaganda they didn't just grow up in a vacuum they were built to be retarded and domesticated from birth.
>>2515058>Socialism lets you keep your whole bagread critique of the gotha program:
the idea that labor has a right to what it creates Marx opposes as a Utopian Socialist slogan, and moreover, a Lasallean slogan.
https://www.marxists.org/archive/marx/works/1875/gotha/ch01.htmEven under socialism, surplus product above the needs of the workers are held collectively and used for the improvement of society as a whole, rather than given entirely to the worker to be squandered in unneeded trinkets and baubles.
>>2515057>Affiliating it with any one particular org especially a cult like Revcoms of course is a bad idea, Yeah, I mean I'm sure the people who set it up were actual RevComs. They're the only ones getting out there and actually doing the legwork.
My bro said he used to see them all the time at UCLA when he was going there over a decade ago. He said he tried talking to them but got quickly weirded out by their culty Bob Avakian worship.
I guess you got to give these cultists credit for their persistence. But the cultiness is off the charts.
>>2515069I for one believe in ancap socialism where there is no taxation of labor value
>>2515074look up "market socialism"
>>2515074unplanned society is return to petty bourgeois social relations
>>2515054I mean I’ve read settlers and he says explicitly at the introduction of one of the editions that he doesn’t even think the white proletariat exists—like he says “oh white people will point to guys working on oil rigs, but they aren’t a proletariat, I consider them a ‘whitetariat’”.
He also says he doesn’t support redistribution because, again in his own words,
everything white people have is the product of theft and so it’s “akin to someone robbing you then saying they’ll give you back half of what they stole.”
Of course when it comes to contentious works on race like Settlers, I’ve come to the conclusion that it’s almost impossible to discuss it in a serious manner because people will glean from it what they want to, sometimes even against what the author literally said. A minor example of this kind of thing is like, I once had a very silly argument with a guy about Black Panther (the movie) and he said the villain was a good guy revolutionary that gets smeared as evil. I point out the villain explicitly says he just wants to do imperialism with the races flipped. But to a lot of people Michael Jordon delivers such a charismatic performance (the dude is undeniably one of the great actors of this generation) and touches on such real feelings that they project this whole other worldview on him; fighting a “revolution to decolonize the world” instead of saying “this time we’re going to be the ones on top”.
So Sakai, in my opinion, does for some people what shit like Trump does for another. He gives people the right feelings and so they ascribe all these traits to him and what he’s saying that really aren’t there.
>>2515069So what I have to surrender anything beyond the bare minimum needed to survive to the state because otherwise I'll "squander" it?
>>2515059>This is kind of interesting too. The RevComs seem to have a secondary front group group that doesn't specifically mention them and is supposed to be an "anti-fascist coalition." That's smart to have a group that doesn't specifcally mention communism that you can bait the anti-Trump people who might be allergic to the word communism.Yeah "Refuse Fascism" is theirs. They have another one they use for pro-choice protests called "Rise Up 4 Abortion Rights." You can tell it's them (it is them) because they love to use IMPACT font. But they do seem to get non-Revcoms to take part in them, somehow, although not so many.
This is actually a very ML thing to do. In my limited experience with that sort of thing (different org), the term wasn't "front group" but "mass org." I think "front group" is sort of how anti-communists would refer to them. Like the strength of a communist party is really in the strength of its mass organizations, and cadres rank up based on their skills and IRL experience gained by leading mass orgs. This is how ML groups tended to do it historically anyhow.
It's like the different between agitation and propaganda. Propaganda is really internal (for cadre) while agitation is communication transmitted through the mass org.
>>2515064>The problem is that said front groups make themselves look a lot bigger than they actually are by marching in front of totally unrelated protesters and using clever photo ops to pretend like they're part of some big movement when all it is is a front for a cult of personality for a balding expat.Well in the Revcoms case that's certainly true. I dunno how I feel about this sort of thing. Personally, I like the mass org idea as a general concept more than showing up at a demonstration waving hammer and sickle flags. And really an important part of it is training people to lead larger groups of people in some kind of struggle. I've avoided groups like the PSL that show up wearing matching PSL shirts like they're the cavalry there to save the day, and also anarchists who operate entirely as their own group isolated from normies.
>>2515073>My bro said he used to see them all the time at UCLA when he was going there over a decade ago. He said he tried talking to them but got quickly weirded out by their culty Bob Avakian worship. I've been to one of their bookstores. They were nice, very friendly like Mormons. But obviously, a cult and I didn't give them my phone number (they asked). I thought it was amusing that they had inserted copies of Avakian's books into random sections in the bookstore. Like scanning through the history section and there would be a copy of the BAsics in there, like they were hoping people would stumble across it. This was in addition to a section dedicated to his works. It was like they were doing entryism inside their own bookstore.
Apparently my city's PSL will be at the next No Kings in some capacity (again). If they actually get some people interested, fine, but the question is will PSL ever mobilize them to be even slightly combative? I'm not even telling them to burn a trash can, much less suddenly show up to the PD with guns, but can they at least try running the civil disobedience tactics of yesteryear?
The top brass surely doesn't think that having some speakers talk at a crowd in front of an empty city hall on a weekend just one more time will keep people engaged in the struggle, right?
>>2515064>The problem is that said front groupsI'm saying it's a good strat to
sheepdog people towards communism. Obviously I'm not endorsing their cult.
>When they're unable to correctly mobilize for photo ops the results are pretty embarrassingI mean they have enough dudes and they actually get out there. I think the embarrassing part is more the culty aspect of it which is off-putting to any sane person. But I admire their persistence and dedication, even if they're only showing up with like 3-5 people, they're still getting the visibility. I guess that's the power of a cult.
>>2515082Yes. And you will squander it you're only human after all. Thank you
>>2515081Not you but plenty of other people. A return to pre-capitalist social relations would reverse the productive forces to a semi-feudal state, making everyone poorer in the name of a "redistribution" that can only occur in an unplanned society lacking the current societie's monopolized productive forces. Marx and Lenin's whole point is that you smash the bourgeois state, build a proletarian state, abolish the bourgeoisie as a class, proletarianize everyone, and use the dictatorship of the proletariat to nationalize the ex-capitalist monopolies for the benefit of the whole society. This is what Lenin means by "proletarian democracy." since the dictatorship of the proletariat answers to the proletariat. We saw the opposite of Lenin's approach, which was Teddy Roosevelt's approach: break up the monopolies, reintroduce petty bourgeois competition, and watch as the mergers and acquisitions of small firms slowly recreate the "destroyed" monopolies which now have the good sense to disguise themselves through false competition of puppet firms.
>>2515085Oh no dont get me wrong I agree it's a good strategy to sheepdog people, we just need to be careful not to look like a cult front like they do when we do it is all I'm trying to say. Otherwise yeah it's a fine idea
>>2515084What the left needs are good orators. Not just explaining capitalism and socialism and all the dry technical stuff, but guys who can rile up a crowd and get them mad as hell and unable to take it anymore about this sort of thing, whatever this sort of thing may be. We need to make the masses want to break stuff
>>2515086you're not who was asked. I want him to know that.
>>2515082i am who you are asking, here is my answer:
>>2515092 >>2515092so what you're telling me is there won't be funko pops in communism and it will all be spent on lame shit like public parks
MLs love their astroturfing orgs. PSL is the people being Code Pink, Veterans for Peace, and a bunch of others. Its scummy, dishonest and used to lander opinion. Code Pink isn't known for being full of sex pests, but the PSL is so launder that reputation before people realize they are being forced to give over their social media passwords for "the real movement".
All the money comes from a billionare named Roy Singham too. These orgs are completely inorganic, not grassroots a d have no connection to the working class.
>>2515094isn't health care, education, gyms, parks, safety gear, etc. more important than profit for capitalists or table scraps for proles?
>>2515089>pre-capitalist>petty-bourgeoisso the petty-bourgeois existed before the bougeoesie?
anyway.
>would reverse the productive forces to a semi-feudal statewhat? why..?
>making everyone poorer in the name of a "redistribution"redistribution makes everyone richer by sharing wealth…
>proletarianize everyoneso communism is not about overcoming the struggle of labor but about submitting to the retarded idea of a "working class" existence?
>This is what Lenin means by "proletarian democracy." since the dictatorship of the proletariat answers to the proletariat.was lenin proletarian? why was he in charge?
>>2515094There will be a library with high quality nendoroids that you can check out
>>2515099something went wrong if there's still profits in communism
>>2515092weird how you as one guy are deciding how billions of people will live. almost like this is just worldbuilding escapism.
>>2515102most people here glaze china for making profits
>>2515092Okay that makes a little more sense. So long as the proletariat of each locality has a direct say in the specifics of what the surplus is used for and how I dont really have any objections. In that sense you can still say the prole "gets his bag", as through investment in their community the prole gets the full value of their labor in the form of public goods and services
>>2515107stalin will decide what he does with your money
>>2515102it's not profit, it's surplus product. marx's whole point in critique of the gotha program is that labor being "entitled to all it creates" (the utopian slogan) is that it leaves no surplus product. it imagines a totally unplanned society where workers just show up to the chair factory, make the chairs, then keep the chairs for themselves. But that's stupid. division of labor shows that people need each other. people who grow beans need chairs and people who make chairs need beans. But rather than returning to some primitive system of barter when profit is abolished, you plan society. Workers are given what they need by default, and the surplus product goes to society as a whole, and specifically some is set aside to perform the necessary function that capital (not capitalists but capital itself!) used to perform, which is the reinvestment of the surplus into expanding and improving production. because even under socialism you still want to improve technology and expand production based on the elastic needs of a changing population.
>>2515109Look mang they wanted me to describe shit in dumbed down burger brain speak, of course it's going to sound dumb
>>2515103i'm not deciding anything. why don't you ask me a question instead of making accusations?
>>2515112it was bait to make usapol actually talk about marxism
>>2515117
did you read the rest or do you just want a low effort greentext sneed
Its funny asf to me that rich white people will absolutely hate the homeless but make their entire culture about larping as one (ie paying 6 grand to go to burning man or just not showrring/having a stink)
I fucking hate hippies
>>2515113why would i ask some unemployed stranger what the destiny of humanity will look like?
>>2515119whats the difference between profit and surplus product?
>>2515121I am not unemployed that is just a presumption on your part. Why would I answer the loaded presumptuous rhetorical question of someone who doesn't even read my answers? Also I'm not describing the "destiny" of humanity I am showing you the contradictions of the existing system and how if they are overcome without planning, it will just result in a reactionary return to an earlier stage of the existing system: The age of petty bourgeois artisanship.
>>2515122profit is kept by capitalists who privately own means of production and do not plan production but instead allow the "market to decide" and surplus product is kept by society as a whole who collectively own means of production and plan production.
>>2515127>progress is when the government controls everythingyoure a filthy stalinist who is uninterested in reality
(USER WAS BANNED FOR THIS POST) >>2515122>did you read the rest<heheh i'm not gonna answer that i'm gonna make you type more shit i won't readanother day on leftytroll
>>2515128so surplus product is social profit?
>>2515129you put no effort in to communicating and you see it as a virtue
>>2515130have a snickers and shut the fuck up
>>2515131why are you reducing this to semantics instead of just reading the original post you ignored where I made my point clearly? why do I have to put in all the effort while you just troll and ask questions you don't actually care about the answers to?
>>2515095>They have a bunch of those postcards with Bob's quotes on them like Bible verses.Hah, I was about to point that out when you said Mormon vibes. The sheer level of self-importance, never mind that it's immediately obvious to anyone they're just copying Christianity. Fackin weirdos.
I'm surprised Avakian isn't memed on here at all. I think I'm one of the only who ever mentions them. I think I saw some Avakian memes posted back in the 8ch days.
>>2515133i am actually brilliantly efficient at communication which is why i can sum things up without meaningless diatribes. in your stupid mind its reactionary when workers own their product and its progressive when stalin owns it. thats it. thats your worldview.
>>2515140not even close to what i said anyone can scroll up and read this exchange. i invite them to. you are asking questions, not reading the answers, making shit up i didn't say, and throwing out random sectarian insults. my original point wasn't from Stalin, but from Marx, in Critqiue of the Gotha Program. Please go read it.
>>2515139correct us then
>>2515137what are you, a snitch?
cop loser. ACAB.
>>2515124Hate to say it but people love "great man shit". Hell you're doing it with your trite Beatle's posting, and as for your idol:
>He does not give the impression he is a true revolutionist since he is constantly under the influence of narcotics >>2515142to you its reactionary to not plan society, correct?
>>2515146Correct. Because it results in a return to petty bourgeois production. In addition to Critique of the Gotha Program I also recommend "Fascism and Social Revolution" by Rajani Palme Dutt, specifically chapter 3, where he breaks down why, in capitalist society, when the rate of profit falls, the capitalists actually destroy the surplus commodities rather than distribute them, because they are afraid of falling prices. In a planned society you don't have this problem of hosing down fruit with kerosene because you're worried about them becoming too cheap. You also don't have the problem where the worker takes home all the chairs he made at the chair factory and then has too many chairs. You have to plan society to move past capitalism. Capitalism already plans production, which makes it superior to feudalism, but it does not plan distribution, instead only distributing based on who can afford commodities. Captialism also creates a reserve army of labor and avoids employing everyone. Don't you care about any of these contradictions? Don't you want to understand capitalism and how it works and what is needed to move beyond it?
>>2515155stalin my oshi. based as always
>>2515144>Hell you're doing it with your trite Beatle's posting, and as for your idol:It's just a cultural reference and I happen to agree with the sentiment. John Lennon definitely isn't my idol. I don't think I've even listened to his solo albums.
For what it's worth he said he regretted it later.
> I should never have put that in about Chairman Mao. I was just finishing off in the studio when I did that.
<In a 1971 interview from the book Lennon on Lennon: Conversations with John Lennon, the “Imagine” singer criticized the line. “The thing I regret was making a reference to Chairman Mao, which might spoil any chances I have of going to visit China,” he said. “I’d love to go and see what’s happening there. But I wrote the Chairman Mao line in the studio ’cause I didn’t have any words.”
>“"Ah, sure, 'Revolution.' There were two versions of that song but the underground left only picked up on the one that said 'count me out.' The original version which ends up on the LP said 'count me in' too; I put in both because I wasn't sure. There was a third version that was just abstract, musique concrete, kind of loops and that, people screaming. I thought I was painting in sound a picture of revolution – but I made a mistake, you know. The mistake was that it was anti-revolution.
>"On the version released as a single I said 'when you talk about destruction you can count me out'. I didn't want to get killed. I didn't really know that much about the Maoists, but I just knew that they seemed to be so few and yet they painted themselves green and stood in front of the police waiting to get picked off. I just thought it was unsubtle, you know. I thought the original Communist revolutionaries coordinated themselves a bit better and didn't go around shouting about it. That was how I felt – I was really asking a question. As someone from the working class I was always interested in Russia and China and everything that related to the working class, even though I was playing the capitalist game.
>"At one time I was so much involved in the religious bullshit that I used to go around calling myself a Christian Communist, but as Janov says, religion is legalised madness. It was therapy that stripped away all that and made me feel my own pain."
<In his 1980 Playboy Magazine interview, John gives an overall perspective from twelve years later. “You look at the song and see my feelings about politics, radicalism and everything. I want to see the plan. Waving Chairman Mao badges or being a Marxist or a thisist or a thatist is going to get you shot, locked up. If that's what you want, you subconsciously want to be a martyr. You see, I want to know what you are going to do after you have knocked it all down. Can't we use some of it? If you want to change the system, change the system. Don't go shooting people.”
< Yes, but we all have bourgeois instincts within us, we all get tired and feel the need to relax a bit. How do you keep everything going and keep up revolutionary fervour after you’ve achieved what you set out to achieve? Of course Mao has kept them up to it in China, but what happens after Mao goes? Also he uses a personality cult. Perhaps that’s necessary; like I said, everybody seems to need a father figure.
<But I’ve been reading Khrushchev Remembers. I know he’s a bit of a lad himself–but he seemed to think that making a religion out of an individual was bad; that doesn’t seem to be part of the basic Communist idea. Still people are people, that’s the difficulty. If we took over Britain, then we’d have the job of cleaning up the bourgeoisie and keeping people in a revolutionary state of mind. <A socialist society also has a surplus product from an economic point of view, insofar as more is produced than is consumed. Nevertheless, the creation and distribution of the surplus product would begin to operate under different rules. In particular, how the new wealth is allocated would be decided much more according to planning based on society's collective needs, using a variety of allocative methods that have proved practically to correspond meeting those needs. 20th century experience with economic management shows that there is a broad scala of possibilities here; if some options are chosen, and others not, this has more to do with who holds political power than anything else.
some people read this and cry "BUT THAT'S JUST PROFIT WITH EXTRA STEPS" not understanding that the dictatorship of the proletariat, the planning of the economy to minimize unnecessary spoilage, and the improvement of means of production to LESSEN WORK HOURS and INCREASE FREE TIME are all key here. you can't have that with a return to Jeffersonian unplanned petty bourgeois artisanship and yeomanry which was the vision of Teddy Roosevelt when he busted up the monopolies and feared the centralization and eventual nationalization of capital by a proletarian dictatorship instead of a bourgeois dictatorship.
What does Lenin say about this?
<To make things even clearer, let us first of all take the most concrete example of state capitalism. Everybody knows what this example is. It is Germany. Here we have “the last word” in modern large-scale capitalist engineering and planned organization, subordinated to Junker-bourgeois imperialism. Cross out the words in italics, and in place of the militarist, Junker, bourgeois, imperialist state put also a state, but of a different social type, of a different class content; a Soviet state, that is, a proletarian state, and you will have the sum total of the conditions necessary for socialism.
Socialism is inconceivable without large-scale capitalist engineering based on the latest discoveries of modern science. It is inconceivable without planned state organization, which keeps tens of millions of people to the strictest observance of a unified standard in production and distribution. We Marxists have always spoken of this, and it is not worth while wasting two seconds talking to people who do not understand even this.
<At the same time socialism is inconceivable unless the proletariat is the ruler of the state. This also is ABC. And history has taken such a peculiar course that it has given birth in 1918 to two unconnected halves of socialism existing side by side like two future chickens in the single shell of international imperialism.
<Lenin, “Left-Wing” Childishness, 1918
>>2515161I mean that's just a tragedy of the system. It filters for the most counter-revolutionary expression of traits. Every piece of media is filtered for the most counter-revolutionary aspects. It's kind of like identity politics. Bourgeois media always gives the most dogshit takes on genuine issues.
>>2515067He is, despite him and the rest of the project 2025 planning this all put. His overestimation of the reasonableness of his own greed will be his downfall.
>>2515091See the problem is that oratory =/= hyper specific and correct theory and if there’s one thing the Left loves it’s nagging pedantry. You say “the people” and two people will trip over themselves to sneer “oh it’s not about THE PEOPLE, you dolt!” So you’re stuck with either the dry theorizing or someone trying to talk like a 1917s Bolshevik, which really doesn’t sound normal to regular people.
And things like oratory and rhetoric are important, it’s basically all The Right has (“RIGHT AND LEFT HAVE NOTHING TO DO WITH COMMUNISM YOU FOOL!!!!”) and so succeeding at that would be huge. This is something libs have trouble understanding, they chalk Trump v Kamala up to “well Trump is so good at lying” or people were so racist or sexist. The reality is that people were upset about price increases and the Dems went on agonizingly long messages about how “inflation is down!” As though “prices are increasing slowly” is a winning message when people really just want prices to be cut, not just capped at a steady rate of growth. Trump lied, sure, but he just told people straight up “I’ll make you richer” whereas Dems obsessed over absurd policy.
>>2515166I'm gonna say it.
A societal surplus allows us to plan allocation of goods to support artisans and hobbies.
>>2515183>See the problem is that oratory =/= hyper specific and correct theory and if there’s one thing the Left loves it’s nagging pedantry. You say “the people” and two people will trip over themselves to sneer “oh it’s not about THE PEOPLE, you dolt!”The solution to all the Left's problems is just having a hardline unified movement that doesn't leave room for pedantry and aggressively beats up its critics. The Republicans perfected the Vanguard Party decades ago while the Left are still stuck arguing about whether it's okay to tell someone to man up because it might be sexist, or the True Marxist Interpretation of some bullshit a guy from 200 years ago said that has no relation to the current problems facing the world but we must fight to the death to pick a side because we just have to ok. I just dip out of any left-wing discussion when they get into arguing about the words of dead Marxists. It reads like when Star Wars fans argue about EU lore while trying to fit it into the movie timeline.
>>2515091>We need to make the masses want to break stuffAnd what does that accomplish. Communists specially deride anarchists as "smashies." Anyone can destroy and any ideology can motivate people to destroy.
It just comes across as juvenile and it is. It's an attitude that motivates people who never built anything in their life, aka children. Also, it's been written about in spiritual texts a lot, but these kind of behaviors only lead to internalized self-destructive behaviors which is very evident in all these "punk" types.
>>2515192>Anyone can destroy and any ideology can motivate people to destroy i mean you're gonna need to get the population to get more used to violence and destruction of infrastructure in one way or another do you think revolutions are made peacefully ? or that in the event of a communist revolution that the communists are gonna spend their time defending wal-marts and shit ?
>>2515192>It just comes across as juvenile and it is. It's an attitude that motivates people who never built anything in their life, aka children.I don't think it's juvenile to destroy the tools of the bourgeois that they need to exploit the workers. Vandalizing random people's cars is dumb. Vandalizing a factory or a news station is revolutionary. Doing whatever you can to sabotage the exploitation of workers is literally Marxist.
>Also, it's been written about in spiritual texts a lot, but these kind of behaviors only lead to internalized self-destructive behaviors which is very evident in all these "punk" types.Punk has been dead since the 90's because those people got too invested in the system to maintain their rebellious lifestyle. Not because it was societally destructive or self-destructive. They just got bored and decided being an office worker is incompatible with smashing the state. This doesn't quite apply to the current generation that don't have any real future prospects to get them invested in the system, so smashing the state might be the best possible path right now.
>>2515203Those tools the bourg need are what we will also need in any sort of non capitalist society, destroying tools and factories is reactionary
>>2515204You don't need the tools you just need the human expertise to reproduce those tools tbh. Also in practice the bourgeois will use those tools against you before you can take them, so you're better off sabotaging them in the mean time to slow down their wealth accumulation while you build up power.
>>2515183>>2515191People are going to call me cringe for this, but I dont care
Y'all ever hear of The Great Awakening? It came in two phases, QAnon arguably being the 3rd phase, to briefly summarize for those of you who are unaware it was a mass grassroots religious revival in the Americas made up of equal parts schizophrenia and early mass movements. All that "banging on the pulpit" "sinners in the hands of an angry god" showmanship which contorts the Bible into simultaneously a doctrine of fear and salvation comes from the Great Awakening, hell the first one was arguably a big inspiration behind the American Revolution. This crass populistic demagoguery works wonders in America, and I see no reason why it cant be made to work for us to service our needs.
So what I propose, gentlemen, is the development of revolutionary "chaplains". Dark Apostles even, if you will. Folks who will get the masses riled up with litanies of anger and vengeance against the ruling class and the promise of a better tomorrow forged in the blood of our enemies. Encourage mobs to form and destroy our opposition, drag out the politicians and the judges and throw them into the fire. Ritually sacrifice people if necessary. There must be a cult of the revolution, and any good cult needs its fanatical preachers inspiring the impoverished and destitute and just plain pissed off to risk everything for an end to the capitalist system. Americans dont need high minded theory or mathematical formulas, hell they dont even want it. They dont want concrete answers because those are complicated, they want simple slogans and targets for their rage. And we can give them that, if we dare
>>2515209more plausible than tylenol tbh
>>2515211just partake in the catholic workers movement or join one of the many tiny left wing christian orgs that all exist in the us and preach "social gospel"
>>2515202>one way or another do you think revolutions are made peacefully ?Yeah? It's the anarchists in red paint who think that revolution = insurrection but that seems to be the majority of communists these days.
>You know that the institutions, mores, and traditions of various countries must be taken into consideration, and we do not deny that there are countries – such as America, England, and if I were more familiar with your institutions, I would perhaps also add Holland – where the workers can attain their goal by peaceful means.
>We have seen above, that the first step in the revolution by the working class is to raise the proletariat to the position of ruling class to win the battle of democracy.
>The proletariat will use its political supremacy to wrest, by degrees, all capital from the bourgeoisie, to centralise all instruments of production in the hands of the State, i.e., of the proletariat organised as the ruling class; and to increase the total of productive forces as rapidly as possible. >b-but Marxism isn't a religion and you cant treat it like scripture to inspire mobs
WELL THEN LET'S MAKE SOME. Get some folks down on the drawing board to write up some holy shit for the Cult of Revolution. Hell I'll start right now, I'm composing a set of psalms as we speak to encourage those who have naught to hold hope in communism and more importantly that they will be rewarded by helping us lay waste to the bourgeoisie like the vermin they are!
>>2515209im circumcised and have autism so maybe this is true
>>2515213Boring and counterrevolutionary. Christianity, especially in America, is irrevocably tainted by slave mentality and devotion to selfish nihilism. What we need is a new faith, the faith of the people and the Revolution as a living and breathing thing, we need to destroy the icons of old and bring about a new world in fire and flame. Fuck temperance, fuck restraint, we need a revolution or we're all going to die
>>2515220meant for the retard
>>2515214 >>2515192Destroying capitalism accomplishes a lot more than trying to reform it with electoralist bullshit I can tell you that much. As much as you might want to paint yourself as more mature than the "smashies" you've got all the idealism of a child who thinks we can just negotiate the means of production out of the hands of the bourgeoisie through wordplay and vooting
>>2515222have fun voting democrat until you life ends faggot
>>2515224>have fun voting democrat until you life ends faggotHave fun posting about your fanfiction about your armed insurrection online until you die without ever even having touched a gun, let alone fired it at anyone.
>>2515226>>2515222And yet people with guns can and do accomplish much more than trying to push Dems to the left will ever achieve
>>2515223So Marx is a child? Again I reiterate one plan is magnitudes more likely to succeed than the other.
>>2515232>>2515231The Soviet Union was famously achieved by a polite dinner party consensus where nobody died, at last I truly see. I will recant my anarkiddie ways and vote for Gavin Newsom
>>2515235Or you accept that the right thing is to move out of America and join the army destined to destroy it
>>2515234They’re just gonna kill you, even if you won the war they would just launch nukes and flip the table
>>2515241that's cool and all but a condo in beijing costs more than i make in a year and going to russia to die in trenchwarfare makes less sense than trying to do a revolution at home
>>2515246You know for a fact there’s much cheaper property in smaller chinese cities
>>2515248And on another note, how did that whole Soviet Union thing turn out?
>>2515251If aliens were real they would just talk to us and announce themselves to the general public
>>2515250Noooo! Don't you understand? The USSR project failed on no fault of their own, it was all because of America's opposition. Don't you see where the second greatest superpower of the 20th century failed, us random college kids who are afraid to touch a gun will succeed! It's so shrimple!
>>2515249and none of them are worth living in lol shut the fuck up defeatist and move to china
>>2515241I dont have the money to completely upend my life and move to the other side of the globe and I have no interest in abandoning my friends, family and comrades to the machinations of the American state. Also "join the army destined to destroy it" lmao as if China is going to invade America. I thought the whole rhetoric that China stans espouse is that they win by doing nothing? Giving up and relying on China to invade America is the exact opposite of China doing nothing
>>2515254> Don't you see where the second greatest superpower of the 20th century failed, us random college kids who are afraid to touch a gun will succeed! It's so shrimple!And where all those American college kids failed with the backing of the 2nd greatest superpower of the 20th century failed to overthrow the government, we will succeed! They just didn't LARP hard enough!
>>2515256It won’t be a Chinese army, Gustavo Petro already has plans to form a UN blue helmet army to save Gaza, their next stop after destroying Israel is every NATO state along the way
>>2515254>>2515250>>2515248>the Soviet Union fell so we should give up and move to China lmaoBait or fed, call it
You cannot he American and a communist, American is not a language, set of cuisines, dress, religion, or ethnicity, it’s an ideology.
>>2515261How are you going to tag me and then greentext another guy? I don't waste my time with socialism for personal benefit. I don't think there is much I could add to China, I think they'll be fine without me.
>>2515264I assumed you were the same person, but regardless you're both pedaling defeatist dreck for the sake of being contrarian
>>2515265Not what I said at all either. LMAO. Jesus Christ.
>>2515268what you say is so incomprehensibly stupid that it doesn't even warrant me reading your posts in it's entirety kill yourself
>>2515263American is a nationality. Liberalism is an ideology.
>>2515272American is not a nationality, it’s an ideology
Ignore defeatists. Revolution is possible and desirable. Death to the old world and bring forth the new
>>2515267I'm not pedaling defeatism, you're the ones pedaling defeatism by always trying to shoot down any plan with any likelihood of success. I don't give a fuck if you go on a suicide mission against the government. I think that's pretty awesome. It will make for some good spectacle. You are the ones who flip out like any fucking reasonable person who is actually trying to build a positive future instead of being motivated by some emotional drive for revenge and martyrdom. I don't care if you go do that shit. Knock yourself out. I don't think it will hurt anything. I'm not being an optics cuck. I just think your plan is juvenile and won't accomplish anything, but I have no objections to you going and doing that shit. But you fucking won't. You will just continue to post here and you don't even own a gun.
>>2515276You haven't even offered any plan, all you've been doing so far is shitting on people who actually do want to do something. If you have a plan I'd love to hear it
>>2515275They own nuclear weapons and will use them against even themselves, these aren’t rational or reasonable people you’re fighting
Every fucking day you fucking Iron_Felixes spam this shit. It's never about discussing in even the remotest tangible sense what it is you want to do. It's all about trying to work people up into an emotionally driven fervor which is the beginning and end of your plan.
>>2515281Getting a raise snd insurance for delivery drivers doesn’t meaningfully challenge the system
>>2515278The plan is to build lasting socialist parties that can get more membership and more seats in government. You should have a party that is always growing in size, instead of some flash in the pan group of terrorists that will get snuffed out by the government in less than a decade at best.
>>2515282LARPing with firearms(which you don't even own, still waiting for you to dispute this kek) doesn't mean meaningfully challenging the system.
>>2515278>You haven't even offered any planActually, there was this guy, a long time ago that wrote out his plan. Think he called it a manifesto.
>We have seen above, that the first step in the revolution by the working class is to raise the proletariat to the position of ruling class to win the battle of democracy.
>The proletariat will use its political supremacy to wrest, by degrees, all capital from the bourgeoisie, to centralise all instruments of production in the hands of the State, i.e., of the proletariat organised as the ruling class; and to increase the total of productive forces as rapidly as possible. >>2515284It’s almost like you can’t meaningfully challenge the system from inside its bowels (Che Guevara was wrong)
>>2515279It is rational and reasonable because it's a deterrent working right now on you
>>2515288Also on 99% of humanity
even if socialists/communists took over america they'd still be more reactionary and fascist than your average member of united russia
>>2515287So it’s just a coincidence that these things only ever appear in the same places where experimental military aircraft are getting tested lol okay
>>2515290You can’t be communist and American at the same time that’s like calling yourself a liberal feudalist
>>2515286I'm so tired of this shit. You idiots are always like:
>Using the Democratic process has failed in America before! So therefore we should take up arms!But you never address the fact that you are far from the first LARPer to advocate taking up arms against the government. Man actually did it and they went nowhere.
Why don't you explain how your plan is different from their plan. No talking about early 20th century collapsing feudal societies like China and Russia.
>>2515295You can’t take arms against America in America, America is the world’s reactionary city and what’s needed is a global People’s Army to use the global countryside to surround and siege and eventually destroy that city
communism only truly works in eastern countries with oriental influence because they have collectivist spirit and actually have a nation to be united around while americans can only rally around the new iphone or xbox releases
>>2515274It is a nationality. You do not know what the word ideology means.
>>2515295It's Americabrain. They can't think collectively, only individually, they've been programmed that way. Democracy? Systemic issues? What's that? How do I fix America with my AR15 I bought at the Wal Mart?
>>2515299There is no American language, no traditional American dress, no religion that calls itself “American”, the closest thing there is to “American culture” is that of the Africans who were kidnapped, enslaved, and are only here because they’re still in chains of poverty
Can the third worldist drunk on orientalism and the reformist leave already.
>>2515301If you don’t think contemporary nuclear weapons are a real threat you’re not serious
>>2515305None of that is necessary for nationality, obnoxious crackkker.
>>2515308either they're a paper tiger and they just wipe out a couple of american cities or america is forever a horrid nuclear wasteland that will need to be cleaned up by a UN occupation either way even in those cases it would be a win lol and the state would make millions into martyrs of the revolution, sounds to me like you're just a pussy lol
>>2515283Okay, now how are we going to do that? Especially given America's established two party dictatorship and our national bourgeoisie's hatred for anything so much as resembling socialism
>>2515312you act like a namefag and your shits all retarded, consider roping yourself
>>2515297 Well there's no jdpon army assembling to beat the last of the USA down either, it's jut going to be people consooming a somewhat higher rate from Chinese commodity output until the contrdictions of Chinese society come to a head, and then China will probably wane to a secondary power.
>>2515316Fuck that was even dumber than I expected
>>2515087Not getting cut. It's psychosexual torture designed to cause fascism. Read Wilhelm Reich.
>>2515317>Well there's no jdpon army assembling to beat the last of the USA down eitherICE
>it's jut going to be people consooming a somewhat higher rate from Chinese commodity outputTrades fucked, and the economy is just about dead.
>>2515317>Well there's no jdpon army assembling to beat the last of the USA down eitherClearly you didn’t listen to Gustavo Petro when he was address the crowds
>>2515265>how did the PRC come to exist? was it from asking chiang kai shek nicely to take power?By tactically allying with the Nationalists, building an army to fight the warlords and japanese, then btfoing everyone. Burgers are fucking history illiterate man.
>>2515335America does not have millions of Hakka peasants ready to be rallied
>>2515249They sell mansions in Detroit for $1
>>2515336you got plenty of people to rally in america, oh but i forgot they're too backwards, unlike pre-revolutionary chinese peasants :^)
>>2515312you're not even replying to anyone in particular. this is just standard genpol (idpol) derail t. older millenial
>>2515315>Okay, now how are we going to do that? Especially given America's established two party dictatorship and our national bourgeoisie's hatred for anything so much as resembling socialismYou know it is much easier to face adversity in the peaceful form like me and you are engaging in right now instead of warfare. I really need to think more about this and develop more to say about this "juvenile disorder" about how you guys are like:
>Noooo! There is no way to win by following the law in the system in which me and you are engaging in right now in which I'm telling you to take up arms against the system which I say which will never let you win under the rules of that system!Go break the rules you fucking chicken hawk. See how far you get LMAO. The government is letting you and me engage in the kind of activities and discussion me and you are engaging in right now. You fuckers are not prepared for any fucking level of adversity. You honestly think you can come and say shit on their internet about how you want to do illegal activities against their system honestly, be actually engaged in it, and they can't come smoke you today? There is a fucking cop car parked a couple houses down from my house. They can come smoke your ass in minutes dude. You are no militant threat to them in the slightest. Jesus fucking Christ.
>>2515339this but unironically. feudal peasants are simple and noble people, modern proles in late stage capitalist countries are cynical jaded degenerates
>>2515209I got circumcised when I was way older than infancy so I doubt it.
(not jewish, my dumb boomer guardians were sold on the idea after a doctor told them I would have phimosis as an adolescent if they didn't do anything about it at 5) >>2515344is foot-binding, heroin addiction and drowning your baby because it's a girl not degeneracy or is that also part of their noble savagery ?
>>2515346
you keep putting off the noose but the sooner you tie it and take a leap of faith you'll be able to meet comrade president himself
>>2515323>>2515322I didn't say the US was going to recover or get better. THe US empire is never going to have some substantial final blow, it's just going to slowly keep rotting away while being big enough to be difficult to deal with, annoying enough that it keeps coming back, but not quite ever diaboloically big enough again to get everyone working together to wipe it out. It's just going to linger like the flu, opportunistically killing people to keep itself going, but without taking anything like the Spanish Flu outbreak again for a long while, and even if it does, it'll just subside away again without anything more to show for it.
Don't expect justice or closure.
>>2515357Ayyy, Cedar Park meetup. Brony, eww. Nah I kid, I'm down. I've tried to connect with other people off here before but most are paranoid. Lol you are a torposter so you're probably paranoid too.
every person i've met from texas through chans either ends up being a sex offender or trans, dunno why
>>2515362it's a socialism or barbarism sorta situation
>>2515360i'm more paranoid about being in a palantir database than i am about meeting a guy IRL. do you have a preferred time/place if you want to meet up?
>>2515337You can tell this guy read Ursula Le Guin
>>2515362>every person i've met from texas through chans either ends up being a sex offender or trans, dunno whyI'm a temporarily embarrassed Angeleno going on like 6 years now. Fuck Texas Summers. I really don't want to do another one. I need to get out of here before the next one.
>we have unironically muh aliens poster ITT.
peak burger hours.
>>2515362How many people have you met?
>>2515365i just enjoy taking the piss out of you in every way possible
i've seen you crashout before, i wanna see it again :^) >>2515366>do you have a preferred time/place if you want to meet up?No, not really. You can text me on my google voice number 626 667 4737. My actual number shows up with my name and address because I'm too lazy to get it removed from all those data collection sites. I'm down let's do it this week. I'll talk to you.
>>2515338damn really? we shoulda done the commune.
>>2515287it simply is not possible for space ayys to be discovered by humans without them wanting to be discovered, and it is not possible for the government to cover them up if they don't want to be covered up. This would mean they're fucking with us for the better part of a century just for kicks.
>>2515379Remember when libertarians were praising Milei for saving Argentina? Now his country needs to be bailed out by the US.
>>2515379Building productive forces in the global south with money gibs (argentina) ✅
Hunting billionaires (epstein, mayor of chicago etc) ✅
Nationalization and SOE building (intel) ✅
Attacking liberalism (LGBT, USAID, migrants) ✅
Yep, the US is AES now
>>2515390Actually Existing Stupidity
>>2515390there's important differences you ignore
>>2515337Honestly, really shows the stealth eugenics of Anarchism. Real communism will be made on the backs of real workers and some of those workers will be horrible nasty people. It's not something to glorify or anything. You just have the comrades you have, not the ones you want. IDK still trying to figure things out. IDK still not sure what the solution is.
>>2515373>bragging about trollingBruh
>>2515406i enjoy getting death threats on the internet its fun
>>2515406what's wrong with trolling? it's fun
>>2515411Nah, shit’s for babies
>>2515413>le redditMan you really wanna waste your time starting fights with strangers
>>2515404hideously anti-social people wouldn't be tolerated in communist societies either
>>2515419Shhh, don’t tell that to half the userbase
>>2515419Try telling that to gen z
Starting to suspect this thread is glowed up way more than I thought
>>2515429the call is coming from inside the house uygha, stop posting indirects on /leftypol/ this isn't facebook circa 2014
>>2515429Starting to? It’s been glowing bright for the past several hours, with some spillover outside it as well.
>>2515432They ain’t sending their best
>>2515433I'm getting put on the /pol/ screen cap?
>>2515441this post is also me, man i can't believe i made this post 20 seconds ago feels like yesterday
At this point it feels like Leftypol is just 10 guys posting and 9 of them are from /pol/
>>2515444i wish there was a more serious avenue for leftist discussion online that wasn't dominated by normies.
>>2515444This place is mostly bored trolls at this point
>>2515449There is none in existence. Capitalist society has ensured that.
>>2515457Something I feel is missing from the current online Left is just no real enthusiasm towards activism. Everything is a psyop or associated with Democrats or a grift of some sort. I'm looking at it with rose tinted glasses but, what happened to the energy from shit like Occupy or Chanology? Why does no one want to proactively do anything anymore?
>>2515317Communist China's prosperity is not contingent on feeding swine like you. Everything you said is projection. You are bourgeois nihilist who thinks all societies collapse like ameriKKKa is
>>2515390return of miga communist. just that this thread needed
>>2515461Part of it I think its that the very real spectre of glowies hangs in the back of the mind of every leftist who posts online.
Second, individualism is at all-time high. It was a problem back in Occupy too. You can't have a hierarchy in a leftist movement because it automatically means that you, as an individual, are asserting your individuality over me.
>>2515171> Bourgeois media always gives the most dogshit takes on genuine issues.not just that, but it literally prescribes the "solutions" most likely to exacerbate the problem.
From the previous thread (shamelessly reposting due to lack of replies):
>>2514919>The prison system also exacerbates gang violence rather than getting rid of it. People convicted of crimes (whether rightly or wrongly) are thrown into an environment, the US prison system, where gang membership is essentially a requirement for surviving rape and murder by guards and other prisoners. The prison system was designed to create more crime, by causing recidivism, and pushing non gang members into gangs, all under the trojan horse of "punishing wrongdoers" which small brained petty bourgeois vigilante conservatives imagine is the purpose of the prison system. Almost nobody comes out of prison a better person. The VAST majority come out worse, and that is by design. Prison neither punishes the wrongdoer, nor heals the criminal, but creates the material conditions for more crimes, more gangs, less class consciousness, which is why the USA loves neglecting schools and hospitals while building more prisons… >>2515471> You can't have a hierarchy in a leftist movement because it automatically means that you, as an individual, are asserting your individuality over me.but the purpose of hierarchies of competence isn't to assert one individual over another but to assert practical experience over inexperience and theoretical literacy over illiteracy in the organized pursuit of a common goal
>>2515194One thing about anarchism is that it's always depicted working in a post-apocalyptic world or some similar hellhole even if it's a sympathetic portrayal. It's a big self-own.
That Fallout 4 mod, Fallout London, has an area that shows a "functional" anarcho-punk commune (though two steps in you see a sign saying "private property, fuck off") and it's still the pure Kropotkin idealism of having *one guy* handle the entire water supply. Their entire identity is just fighting fascism and the biggest building on the map is dedicated to being a nightclub to do drugs in.
It lends itself to this cliche because historically, the only times it took root was in (semi)feudal, mostly autonomous peasant farming economies, where the jump from that to anarchism was much more feasible. That's why there's all that fetishism of destroying everything and worshipping complete reactionary terrorists like the Unabomber.
Now obviously, anarchism isn't just smashy smashy and there are some people who take it seriously rather than babies first step out of being a democrat (I'll ignore Chomsky) but it cannot be denied that this is a huge portion of the "anarchist" community. Their entire time is spent justifying how smashy smashy will work, as I remember my time on anarchy101 years ago, where people explain that rapists will stop existing as soon as the State is destroyed and that community gardening can somehow feed billions.
>>2515470it's dripping with sarcasm
>>2515479>Their entire identity is just fighting fascism and the biggest building on the map is dedicated to being a nightclub to do drugs in.Based
>>2515100>so the petty-bourgeois existed before the bougeoesie?small producers. guilds. artisans. household manufacture.
>what? why..?becaue pre-capitalist society was pre-industrial
>redistribution makes everyone richer by sharing wealth…not if you simultaneously revert to pre-industrialist small scale production
>so communism is not about overcoming the struggle of labor but about submitting to the retarded idea of a "working class" existence?under communism everyone works but everyone also gets what they need. since production is planned around need rather than profit and the surplus product of society is collectivized rather than privately hoarded for leverage until spoiled
>was lenin proletarian? no
>why was he in charge?he wasn't. only bourgeois histories call Lenin "the first dictators of the soviet union" or whatever nonsense.
>>2515477That doesn't really work when every Leftist in America thinks they know better than every other Leftist and if you have a minor disagreement they will take their ball and go home splintering your already tiny org. It's very difficult to get people to do anything productive.
>>2515186you would, if anything, not plan to support small production, but plan to improve and refine means of production. The strength of capitalism over previous modes of production is that the production process is socialized, centralized, and automated. Socialism builds on that strength rather than trying to revert production to the semi-feudal conditions of household and village artisanship and small manufacturers. Do you want 10 people making 1,000,0000 commodities a day in an 6 hour shift in a cooperative and socialized setting using highly advanced technology or do you want 1,000,0000 people spread out over the countryside each making 10 commodities a day using very low tech and working longer shifts? Socialism builds upon the productive forces of capitalism, but gets rid of the bourgeoisie and profit. It does not return to small artisanship. Yes you're free in your free time to do small artisanship but you won't be able to compete with professional production. You would be doing it for its own sake, or perhaps even to understand historical methods of production, the same way people do civil war reeneactments to learn about old weapons. It wouldn't be for personal gain.
>>2515487the battle of blair mountain and the great strike of 1877 took place in this country. we can get that organized again
>>2515493
why do you believe what you see online
Humans exist too early in the universe for extraterrestrial life to visit us. Best case scenario is that we’re simply currently developing into ancient precursors that exist separately from other developing precursors at great distances.
i think… we have to give trump the nobel peace prize
>>2515499Kissinger got it, it’s meaningless
>>2515502>>2515502All such prizes are meaningless under capitalism
>>2515494You really think someone would do that? Just go online and tell lies?
>>2515215Parable of the sower ass shit
>>2515504It’s more likely than you think?
>>2515349>>2515357>>2515362>>2515376Me and glowie anon just met up at the park and hanged out for the last 2 hours. He was a very cool guy. You guys should try meeting up IRL with people. It's crazy how fast you can make things happen.
>>2515497I don't buy that theory. It's been 13 billion years in a universe with zillions of galaxies and stars we can't possibly be the first or even early, we are most likely extremely average in all respects.
The reason we've never encountered extraterrestrial life is probably because stars are too far apart and faster-than-light travel is impossible and any alien civilization that was advanced enough for interstellar travel would live and move in much larger timeframes than us and the odds of their vast trajectory though space and time intersecting with our miniscule trajectory of a few thousand years on our tiny little planet is extremely unlikely, also a civilization that advanced would likely be undetectable to our primitive instruments and senses and incomprehensible to our terrestrial human minds.
>>2515509Did you explore each other's bodies
>>2515349>>2515357I went to high school in cedar park what the hell
>>2515511Nah we just talked and shit about politics and stuff like on here just sitting in the park.
>>2515512Are you still in the Austin area? Let's make it a trio.
>>2515515not rn but ill be back in austin next year I might hit you up
>>2515510>don't buy that theory. It's been 13 billion years in a universe with zillions of galaxies and stars we can't possibly be the first or even early, we are most likely extremely average in all respects.It’s actually very likely when one considers how it takes for the formation of stars, planetary bodies, planetary bodies capable of supporting life, and the development of early life itself.
I genuinely doubt there’s any alien civilization that’s even on our level, much less a civilization more advanced than ours.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Firstborn_hypothesishttps://www.sciencealert.com/humans-may-be-among-the-first-intelligent-beings-in-the-universe
>of a few thousand years on our tiny little planet is extremely unlikely, also a civilization that advanced would likely be undetectable to our primitive instruments and senses and incomprehensible to our terrestrial human minds.What is with the weird put down of the human species?
>>2515510if faster than light travel is impossible, and no advanced civilisation is near enough for us to even see evidence of their existence in the past, then what does it mean for advanced alien life to "exist"?
>>2515518>What is with the weird put down of the human species?It's not meant as a putdown, it's just being mathematically realistic. As humans we have a very strong tendency to want to believe that we are the center of the universe and that we are special and important and unique somehow, but we're not. Even by the most conservative of estimates there are at least *octillions* of other living species in the observable universe besides humans. And all of them are probably completely unlike anything we are familiar with on Earth and whatever intelligence they have would probably be unrecognizeable to us as intelligence.
>>2515524>it's just being mathematically realisticBeing mathematically realistic would actually mean we just wouldn’t exist at all
>Even by the most conservative of estimates there are at least *octillions* of other living species in the observable universe besides humansIt’s actually the opposite. Life is a very unlikely occurrence. And while we certainly aren’t the center of the universe, we could definitely still be an outlier.
>>2515517>not rn but ill be back in austin next year I might hit you upAlright, cool. I'm assembling a team. Glowie anon was very cool. I went in without hesitation and was very glad he was a very cool dude. I think we saw eye to eye on a lot of stuff although I did most of the talking, so maybe it is partly my imagination.
>>2515523I really don't want to get into this philosophical "if a tree falls in the woods" shit again.
>>2515524if "humans" apparently have this tendency, why dont you have it? how did you liberate yourself from humanity? or do you just mean "some people have different ideas about different things"
>>2515532space animal hypothesis mogs ET and UT u kno this to be true
>>2515532>if your imagination and intellectual curiosity is this fucking limited.I think humans being early precursors to most other life in the universe is a very unique and interesting train of thought actually. Certainly more fresh than the “um acktually the universe is full of life” concepts.
>>2515535I do have it, everyone has a human brain full of human vanities and human desires, I just try to be more conscious of it. It's like, I notice the same recurring pattern of thought in these kinds of things - religion makes the assumption that the universe is created/ruled by a human intelligence that we can communicate with, ufology makes the assumption that the universe is full of human-like civilizations that think and live similar to us that we can communicate with, artificial intelligence makes the assumption that a computer can create a "superhuman intelligence" that we can communicate with, etc. Anthropocentric thinking, humans projecting our own attributes onto the universe.
>>2515479I mean isn't the last paragraph what caused bookchin to complain abt lifestylism which in turn led to bob black writing anti-work that would become part of the basis for the post-left(i.e. trust fundies who actually think anarchism is when you can whatever you want)
>>2515541you dont "have a brain full of human vanities", you are a brain, and you have vanities. there is no point reiterating that you and everyone else is human. there is no mode of thought separate from what you describe
Imagine the odds of two mosquitoes on opposite sides of the Earth ever coming into contact with each other and multiply that by a trillion and that's about how likely it is that we will ever encounter a lifeform from another solar system.
>>2515550>Imagine the odds of two mosquitoes on opposite sides of the Earth ever coming into contact with each otherlook up how island life evolved, this is actually not as rare as you might think. entire species exist just because two animals that were biologically compatible washed up on the same shore in the same timespan totally unintentionally.
>>2515550What is what the probability that two people on a site with like 100-200~ users globally max would find each other and meet up with each other in like an hour?
>>2515555nice quads+ im coming to ur house rn( I baked cookies)
>>2515548>there is no mode of thought separate from what you describeSure there is. You can either realize that humans aren't special and that human knowledge is limited and the universe is indifferent to human ambition, or you can be an idiot.
>>2515560U r welcome anon. We are trying to form the Cedar Park collective. We got me, glowie anon, and the third anon who is joining next year. We're growing exponentially.
>>2515553do you have any examples? genuinely curious
I will say it is possible and maybe even likely that extraterrestrial life has visited Earth before, perhaps millions or billions of years ago, such a long time that we would never be able to find or recognize any evidence they may have left behind from their visit. There might even be a few alien artifacts buried deep underground that we will never, ever find.
>>2515510Actually this is right about the time it takes for a universe to produce sapient carbon based life. You gotta have stars that last billions of years and the first ones sure as hell didn't, you also have to have enough heavy elements in their protosystem to make a rock that can chemically create the conditions for life and that takes at least one or two generations of supernovas, and then IF you succeed you have to wait half a billion years for life to even start and another three to four billion for it to be more complicated than bacteria. Considering the sheer amount of variables and time we're extremely early, which in the long run is a good thing as humans get to call dibs on key planets
>>2515570>to produce sapient carbon based lifeWe don't really even know if carbon based life is the only kind of life there is, all that we know about life is based on the Earth life we have observed, which is an infinitesimely small sampling of data.
>>2515468I think they'll decouple from the US just fine but so far every major power has had periods of rising, dominance, and decline. I don't think China is doing anything wrong for it, I think that's simply a life cycle that is very difficult to avoid even if you wanted to.
>>2515537I graduated in 2018 cphs
>>2515570Early in cosmic scales is still potentially putting other life as having developed millions of years before us. And if we assume, oh, ~1mil years to go from high intelligence to lowest level of reaching space, then we're potentially looking at another alien species that evolved 0.0001538% earlier than us having a full
million years of just post-space tech development time.
>>2515579No shit, nobody is questioning if humans built cathedrals
>>2515571Sure there could hypothetically be types of life that aren't carbon based but at that point you're talking about stuff that is beyond the scope of what humans can currently relate to. Beyond that you've got anything from sentient thunderstorms to living spacetime defects
>>2515579the valee ultraterrestrial shit is the only ancient aliens adjacent stuff ik of that actually includes a bunch of examples from europe and the US and never actually states any ancient structure was built by extraterrestrials.
>>2515571>carbon based life is the only kind of life there isShadow Biosphere is an interesting concept that we could have a ton of undiscovered microbes with different bio chemistries that we don't know about and therefor can't test for. If you believe viroids are alive we might alr have one when considering recent research suggesting they might not just be restricted to plants[1] and the discovery of obelisks in the human gut biome and ocean[2]
[1]
https://academic.oup.com/nar/article/53/3/gkae1278/7933593[2]
https://academic.oup.com/ismej/article/19/1/wraf033/8042533 >>2515593>>2515593>>2515571hate to burst the bubble but no, the lack of d-orbitals makes period 2 unique chemically, you're not going to find naturally evolved life not based in carbon.
I can go into it if you guys want but there's ultimately too much "useful" chemistry that's pretty much unique to carbon and -
especially - unique to "low tech" carbon that simply doesn't exist elsewhere.
>>2515598Well, what we call "life" is just this small smattering of things we've observed here on Earth, but the odds are good that there are things in the universe that would challenge or shatter our entire conception of what "life" even is. Just take viruses for example, they're naturally occurring right here on Earth but we didn't discover them until like a hundred years ago and we still argue endlessly about whether they count as "life" or not.
>>2515198imagine if they stopped larping with their sectarian bullshit.
>>2515600The biggest issue though is that no matter what you're looking at, in order for it to have come into existence and then hung around for a while it will need to have certain properties that allow it to self-regulate through physical matter, protect certain special repeating patterns, modulate those patterns in predictable ways in response to their environment, and regulate entropy in some way.
This is actually an extremely difficult sieve to pass through for a great many "sci-fi" proposals for aliens like intelligent dust clouds and self-regulating energy grids. Otherwise you're going to be forced to start calling things like tornadoes here "life".
>>2515611so for example you could not have life start in an area as a Boltzmann brain, because of the issues of needing to regulate your own form while being subjected to chaotic forces in the universe - you would need to have some way to control significant magnetic and electric charges for particle control in very precise ways but before there was something guiding that system.
For similar reasons, life could not develop as a "pure energy" being, because they all move at light speed and don't interact in the way you'd need.
Simple truth is that out of everything in this universe, carbon polymers are the only thing that really give you the right level of robustness and "interactivity" to give the
initial development of life. That doesn't mean life will always remain carbon polymers, but it will come from abiogenesis that way, every time. I'd bet both my kidneys on that.
>>2515611Well at any rate, while I think it's likely and even certain that there are zillions of other evolved organisms in the universe besides humans, it's important to remember that space is still space and we're still operating on the scale of astronomical distances. The distances between stars are so inconceivably vast and impassable that the odds of interstellar contact between species are extremely low. If interstellar journeys do happen, they are probably short one-way migrations that take centuries and the species colonizes some other planet and loses contact with their homeworld forever. How do you maintain meaningful contact with people when it takes 20 years to send them a message and another 20 years to hear the response? There are no possible technological loopholes to get around this problem, the speed of light is the speed of light and you can't violate causality. We are alone in the universe, forever. All we have is each other.
>>2515575How ironic. The ameriKKKan says China is the nation headed for decline. You fail to grasp that China has no antagonistic contradictions. All contradiction in China are but easily solved problems.
>>2515639Are you illiterate? I said I think China is on the rise and will continue to be so for quite a while, and the USA is going to linger as a miserable husk. There are twinklings of issues here and there with China, but they're not going to be anywhere that matters for the next 3-5 decades.
>>2515630TBQH i think any "species" that survives long enough eventually will become robotic in a great many ways. At some point none would think 20 years is any great length of time.
This was a pretty cool sci fi aliens conversation for imageboard standards, usually they are a lot stupider than this.
>>2515550the universe is infinitely big and time eternal therefore the possibility is technically 100%
If you really want pessimism, another theory to the Fermi Paradox is the Dark Forest theory, which states that the reason we can't find any Dyson Spheres or other obvious artificial alien megastructures anywhere in the universe which should be very easy to see on our telescopes, is because such a glaringly obvious beacon would very quickly be detected and destroyed by some even more advanced lifeform that doesn't want it there.
>>2515657by that reasoning I will 100% probability meet king henry VIII while both of us are alive.
Furthermore, the evolutionary record here on Earth shows a clear preference for small meek creatures that live under rocks and eat worms rather than intelligent apex predators like us. Our Elon Musk ambitions to colonize outer space may only succeed in attracting the attention of even greater imperialists who will exterminate us.
>>2515664>who will exterminate us.They will exploit us, and we will learn.
>>2515009HE HAD A WHEELCHAIR
>>2515658i think the biggest issues are that megastructures are just…impractical, and even with all the tech they have there's still nothing that keeps a giant ring orbiting a star etc.
I think it's entirely more plausible that we're just not gonna see things that are on the scale of the size of anything most species ever will make, and none of the communications are simply not going to target us. Most of the arguments seem to hinge on highly advanced civs effectively being F350 coal-rollers of the universe.
>>2515668Maybe they are exploiting us right now. They are all around us and watching us but we can't see them, and our pain is what nourishes them.
>>2515561the universe is a concept we have created. it is the opposite of indifference
Also I would sincerely suggest comrades look at something like SOMA as an alternative. Or, fuck, 17776.
>>2515679making claims about how the universe it infinite therefore humanity doesnt matter or isnt special or whatever bullshit irrelevant arguments is solipsism.
>>2515649>There are twinklings of issues here and there with China, but they're not going to be anywhere that matters for the next 3-5 decades.How ironic. The ameriKKKan says China will collapse in "3-5 decades." Why do you project your "issues" onto China?
>>2515672A lot of megastructure concepts that exist today really just need stronger materials and maybe a better baseline design. We’ll definitely end up building banks orbitals rather than ringworlds though. If one is ever built, it would be purely for flexing and nothing else.
>>2515690Damn you are actually illiterate, because that's not what I said at all either.
>>2515016I guess someone forgot to clean their room lel
Back to basics! Oh wait he can't because the benzos already liquefied what the mold didn't take. JP really lives in a hell of his own creation huh?
>>2515692Yeah the issue is that in a lot of these cases you pretty much have the periodic table, and you have geometry to work with. Both are pretty well known quantities. We have a pretty solid idea of upper limits of compressive strength that quantum mechanics is going to allow. Once you start going above certain thresholds you start getting into ‼fun‼ things with matter and you see solids flow like liquids, but by undergoing phase transitions that move atoms like liquid but stay in solid phases the entire time.
AI trained to handle quantum chemistry might be able to get us slightly better materials science for pushing the extremes than we have now but it's not going to double the strength of carbon fiber. The most realistic megastructure that is actually just on the edge of realistic is the space elevator, which isn't gonna be showing up on any radio arrays half a galaxy away any time soon.
>>2515665i realized one day that soyjaks are probably almost exclusively drawn by people who closely but don't exactly resemble them.
Not to mention you could also have advanced civilizations that do not exist in physical reality at all apart from an automated self-contained, self-sustaining machine which projects a shared virtual reality where virtual lifeforms live in their own boundless universe with its own physical laws and can communicate and work together as the equivalent of a galaxy-sized civilization with no light speed communication barriers, yet they can still interact with the outside universe through the machine's internal interface. Humanity might not be too early to encounter alien life - we might be too late. All the more advanced civilizations have already left the universe and we're just losers.
>>2515721those who have a high tier in the intra-personal revolutionary plasm simply can not bring themselves to create a wojak
I myself as a pretty trans girl any time i had the desire to make a wojak was demotivated before the task even came to be done
>>2515725They should give the Bnobel peace prize to some glowed up "freedom activists" or whatever. Last time it was eastern Europe liberals, now they could do those based east Asian youths what with their love/hate for neoliberalism and fight against "corruption" with N(local)GO allies.
It's the only way to make sure absolutely nobody (who isn't a PR contractor) is satisfied.
And I think that's what's gonna happen.
I love the kneejerk reaction that any unrest that happens in another country is glowie. "We call communism the real movement which preserves the present state of things."
>>2515739I love how desperate online commies are to claim participation that they validate every other liberal mass movement as a revolution. I'd have less spite for this habit, if it also didn't happen that the usual excuses after the fact, didn't line up so often with the anglo narrative on the matter. Ah well, regrettably the obvious happend again.
But for a brief moment we looked like we had a finger on the pulse of tings, rather than being irrelevant (often trots) in some editorial office picking and choosing which facts most benefit our plan to organize the masses via public statements.
>>2515739If they don't want to be blamed for the few times it's not actually them maybe they should stop doing it?
>>2515742seems like glowies would want to be blamed for it if it gets communists to disavow every mass movement that happens
>>2515739>>2515744Communists need to defend coups where reactionary A gets replaced by reactionary B
why is there no secret camera infiltrating ICE journalism yet
>>2515305>no religion that calls itself “American”is this post serious?
>>2515739Most of the new ministers in Nepal come from NED-connected organizations. I don't know what to tell you, idiot.
At the end of the day, it is the government's fault that they haven't dealt with this filth appropriately. Some of that probably comes from the fact that the country is so poor, but the people of Nepal will now pay a much higher price than they ever got out of it.
I always want to approach people charitably, but it is just not always appropriate to reality in our times of slowly recovering from reaction.
The fact is, communists are weak right now and largely unable to steer popular resentment in the right direction. United States usually fills that void. They have the money, will, and plenty of local bootlickers who will do their bidding. Regime change through "revolution" is a core part of US arsenal that they themselves never shut up about.
There are a few ways you can tell that a "revolution" is NED rubbish: they are always vague as fuck, it's always about corruption and not capital, there is no program and actual demands other than "givas power". Even if you forgot that US State Department exists for a minute, these are just not good as revolutions. Nothing like them happened until the 80s because this bullshit doesn't actually mobilize people, they can only operate because of endless money that is spent on regime change. They just eat up resources that could have been used actual revolutionary movements, which is arguably the worst consequence in most cases.
>>2515774you get what you deserve, is the matter of fact
>>2515725NOOOOOOOOOOOOO NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
>>2515111>Again MLoid must argue for why socialism is capitalism but with more welfare Marx’s point about capitalism was never that capitalists are part of an international jewish conspiracy, but that they are merely the avatars of the exact pump-process of surplus extraction of a class of laborers (who can be maintained as such even without a private appropriator) to a socially extant abstract controller
Most “Marxists” are pretty much surrealist socdems or fascists who want to make capitalism as efficient as possible.
>>2515658As much as I like The Three-Body Problem, my favorite fictional solution to the Fermi Paradox is Dead Space.
>>2515800and marx simply wanted to make the state an avatar of capital instead of private individuals. marxism cant think beyond the subject of surplus value.
>>2515802Uhhh is this ironic? Because Marx saw the proletarian state as a purely negative (i.e. serves purely abolitionary function) apparatus for abolishing bourgeois social relations that would not survive into the Communist Epoch (Higher or Lower Phase)
>>2515840the relations of lower phase communism are literally describef by marx as pertaining to bourgeois right
>>2515867a lot of people end up in gangs because they usually have bad upbringings of various shades and/or people around them are in gangs and it's a safety/indoctrination thing.
>>2515801As fun as all the Fermi solutions are, I suspect the one closest to the truth is the simplest and least exciting one, that space is just too big and empty. That one might be the most depressing and hard to accept of all, the sheer mathematical impossibility of it, the tyranny of the Void, and our own inability to fathom its scale. We're like the child at the beach asking the parent why we can't swim across.
>>2515873But some of the issue is that we would eventually see something. However if there are no mega structures we would be looking for very tiny, dim things
>>2515867because the alternative is often not much better I'd guess
>>2515871>>2515867under a communist government, gangsta rap should be banned
gangsta rappers must be sent to re-educational camps
>>2515891gangsta rap would die if the hood culture and poverty there ended, it's unnescessary to even lay your hands on them uyghas.
>>2515739They just hate fun
>>2515739any protest not leadered by open communists or socialists not alligned to US dementia has a chance of being glowops, being resitant about them is natural.
the big problem is that this is paralysing and demotivating, it's a win win scenario for US imperialism, either your can accept one of their viruses or cuck yourself from mass mobilisations by hesitation and possibly loosing the change of becoming the head by organization.
>>2515739https://williamblum.org/essays/read/overthrowing-other-peoples-governments-the-master-listInstances of the United States overthrowing, or attempting to overthrow, a foreign government since the Second World War. (* indicates successful ouster of a government)
China 1949 to early 1960s
Albania 1949-53
East Germany 1950s
Iran 1953 *
Guatemala 1954 *
Costa Rica mid-1950s
Syria 1956-7
Egypt 1957
Indonesia 1957-8
British Guiana 1953-64 *
Iraq 1963 *
North Vietnam 1945-73
Cambodia 1955-70 *
Laos 1958 *, 1959 *, 1960 *
Ecuador 1960-63 *
Congo 1960 *
France 1965
Brazil 1962-64 *
Dominican Republic 1963 *
Cuba 1959 to present
Bolivia 1964 *
Indonesia 1965 *
Ghana 1966 *
Chile 1964-73 *
Greece 1967 *
Costa Rica 1970-71
Bolivia 1971 *
Australia 1973-75 *
Angola 1975, 1980s
Zaire 1975
Portugal 1974-76 *
Jamaica 1976-80 *
Seychelles 1979-81
Chad 1981-82 *
Grenada 1983 *
South Yemen 1982-84
Suriname 1982-84
Fiji 1987 *
Libya 1980s
Nicaragua 1981-90 *
Panama 1989 *
Bulgaria 1990 *
Albania 1991 *
Iraq 1991
Afghanistan 1980s *
Somalia 1993
Yugoslavia 1999-2000 *
Ecuador 2000 *
Afghanistan 2001 *
Venezuela 2002 *
Iraq 2003 *
Haiti 2004 *
Somalia 2007 to present
Honduras 2009 *
Libya 2011 *
Syria 2012
Ukraine 2014 *
Q: Why will there never be a coup d’état in Washington?
A: Because there’s no American embassy there.
>Pope Leo XIV urged labor union leaders from Chicago to advocate for immigrants and welcome minorities into their ranks, weighing in as the Trump administration's crackdown on immigrants intensifies in the pontiff’s hometown.
christfags>union leaders
>>2515739Also you should know by now that "unrest," whether genuinely grassroots, or fomented from the outside, is a "smoke signal" for the intelligence agencies of imperialist countries to activate their sleeper cells.
>>2515765>Mormonism as an American religionalso Scientology.
also Black Hebrew Israelites.
not to ignore also actual indigenous religions
>>2515923poor people will have fabricated AI videos used as "evidence" against them for crimes they didn't commit and rich people will get to use "all the evidence is AI videos" as an excuse. It's the perfect fulcrum to intensify the already existing "pay to win" justice system.
>>2515926Obviously, yes. Otherwise they would have already passed laws for mendatory signatures on AI videos, disallowing the uploading of life like AI videos, etc. They are letting it run rampant to fully establish a post-truth era.
>>2515897>gangsta rap would die if the hood culture and poverty there ended, it's unnescessary to even lay your hands on them uyghas.>"gangsta rap"its not 1992 anymore, old white dad
the only rap song you know is about fruity pebbles
>>2515964>Drill music, also known as drill rap or simply drill, is a subgenre of hip-hop music that originated in Chicago in the early 2010s. It is sonically similar to the trap subgenre and lyrically similar to the gangsta rap subgenre.>Early drill artists are typically noted for their associations with crime in Chicago, especially with the Black Disciples and Gangster Disciples.Maybe when the "old white dad" called it "gangsta rap" they were referring to contemporary genres like drill which cover similar subject matters.
>>2515976i hear those gangsta rappers like to smoke marihuana
>>2515994Mike Johnson mentioned'ly reminder that Mike Johnson and his son monitor each other's porn use
>>2515923Probably the first of these that doesn't immediately look fake as fuck
>>2516052I'm not sure I believe that, but if that's true it's both hilarious he gave that offer and hilarious they didn't take the offer. It's never enough for the burger reich.
>>2516052Always had a feeling maduro was an opportunist cuck, if true good thing the US is forcing him to step up and grow a spine.
>>2515914The United States would genuinely be a much better place if Catholicism took the place of all the schizo Protestant sects, especially with a radical Sandinista-style Pope like Leo in charge.
>>2516057believed random tweet award
>>2516052Source: the glowie times
>>2516060>a radical Sandinista-style Pope you're thinking of Francis. He's dead. This is the burger pope.
>>2516052international fedjacketing lel
>>2516056100 million, are you kidding? It would get offered to Trump family linked firm for 10 billion
>>2516052Based Trump refusing to harm China’s interests. The Red Don indeed.
>>2515976Whatever you want to call it, the production is almost entirely driven from a desire to get out of poverty ie. "Make it"
>>2516077they didnt kill him for this racial false consciousness, but only when he unified against capitalism
>>2516066>believed random tweet award>>2516052https://www.nytimes.com/2025/10/10/world/americas/maduro-venezuela-us-oil.htmlVenezuela’s Maduro Offered the U.S. His Nation’s Riches to Avoid Conflict
>Venezuelan officials, hoping to end their country’s clash with the United States, offered the Trump administration a dominant stake in Venezuela’s oil and other mineral wealth in discussions that lasted for months, according to multiple people close to the talks.
>The far-reaching offer remained on the table as the Trump administration called the government of President Nicolás Maduro of Venezuela a “narco-terror cartel,” amassed warships in the Caribbean and began blowing up boats that American officials say were carrying drugs from Venezuela.
>Under a deal discussed between a senior U.S. official and Mr. Maduro’s top aides, the Venezuelan strongman offered to open up all existing and future oil and gold projects to American companies, give preferential contracts to American businesses, reverse the flow of Venezuelan oil exports from China to the United States, and slash his country’s energy and mining contracts with Chinese, Iranian and Russian firms.
>The Trump administration ended up rebuffing Mr. Maduro’s economic concessions and cut off diplomacy with Venezuela last week. The move effectively killed the deal, at least for now, the people close to the discussion said.
>Though the United States has been targeting what it calls drug boats, the cutoff of diplomacy, the military buildup near Venezuela and the increasingly strident threats against Mr. Maduro by Trump administration officials have led many in both countries to think that the Trump administration’s real objective is Mr. Maduro’s removal.
<Marco Rubio, the U.S. secretary of state and national security adviser, has been the leading voice in the administration’s push to oust Mr. Maduro. He has called Mr. Maduro an illegitimate leader who is a “fugitive from American justice” and has been skeptical of the diplomatic approach conducted by a special U.S. envoy, Richard Grenell.The eternal gusano.
>Proponents of diplomacy acknowledge that Mr. Rubio’s hard line approach has prevailed for now. But they believe their efforts could eventually bear fruit, pointing to Mr. Trump’s sudden reversals on other major foreign policy issues, such as the war in Ukraine, trade with China or Iran’s nuclear program.
<This article is based on interviews with more than a dozen American and Venezuelan representatives of disparate factions calling for diplomacy with Mr. Maduro. They described their discussions on condition of anonymity because they were not authorized to speak publicly.
>Publicly, the Venezuelan government has responded to Mr. Trump’s military escalation with defiance and vows to defend what it calls a socialist revolution started in the 1990s by Mr. Maduro’s late predecessor and mentor Hugo Chávez. At the same time, Mr. Maduro has said he remains open to negotiations and his government continues accepting deportation flights from the United States. >>2516077Lol did this uygha actually argue that 1776 was a revolution of the landless. Terminal liberalism. America was already trash from the very first footsteps they took onto turtle island
>>2516080Wow it must be true then if 'multiple people' said it
>>2516079race is class in the US because the US has a quasi caste system. It's not really false consciousness in the US, it's how things were built
>>2516081On the one hand he is very incorrect like you said that 1776 was a revolution of the landless against the landlords. It was a revolution of the local planter aristocracy against the crown of the mother country. But the revolutionary leaders like Washington did have to crush more revolutionary elements of the continental army who came from the peasantry, in rebellions which sprung up after 1776, like Shay's rebellion, and the Whiskey rebellion. On the other hand I do not know if Malcolm X was simply ignorant about the nature of 1776, or if he was simply using the popular imagination of 1776 as a rhetorical device. But yes, this is the problem with US patriotic history. It is totally garbage and liberal.
>>2516088>race is classis a black billionaire still black?
>>2516088>race is class in the US because the US has a quasi caste system. It's not really false consciousness in the US, it's how things were builtlet me correct this before it becomes a shit show. I should have said race is a proxy for class in the US. not race "is" class.
>>2516089yes. i have corrected myself.
>>2516092if I recall she actually converted when she married Jared Kushner
>>2516092jared kushner taking the picture
>>2516090trump is the only right-winger who effortposts
>>2516092I know everyone is an atheist but the more and more I think about this stupid wall the more and more I come to believe that it's actually a reservoir of demonic entities that get invited to possess whichever poor soul is dumb enough to place their hands on it. That's the only explanation I can come up with for why everyone who touches this wall is a genuine piece of shit or war criminal.
>>2516080It's just a bunch of hearsay , that's that doesn't constitute as true.
I've checked Venezuelan news and nothing of that sort is mentioned.
>>2516100if that's your standard of effortposting there are plenty of reactionary effortposters. in fact I would argue pretty much every NYTimes or Atlantic of Economist thinkpiece is a reactionary effortpost.
>>2516071 (me)
>We need to invade Venezuela and the "regime" is getting too much support>From our "government in exile" openly allying with euro fascists>And from the whole parking our navy on their cost and threatening to bomb them while blowing up small boats.>>So actually, stop looking for the government to defend you from our invasion. Maduro is one of us, the ones invading for the oil. USAno logic at play here.
Maduro can be:
-An unflinching communist
-The mastermind behind all of Igslamic 'trrsism second only to Iran
-A mere pawn of the true communist overlord of South America, the all powerful Cuba
-An international criminal heading the largest criminal organization in human history
-More of a liberal than the invading hegemon and the right wing neoliberal opposition
-An incompetent clown unable to make ends meet on a petrostate
-The leader of a vast terrorist organization numbering tens of millions slowly invading and undermining the USA under the guise of migration
All at once, or when convenient, every other sentence. Goodness, at least the old fascists tropes had the race-card to play to somehow anchor the critique in some purportedly intrinsic and immutable character of the enemy. This is just schizo babbling hoping that the audience is just retarded enough.
I'm half expecting for the USAnos to start editing Maduro in photos to look more like Saddam Hussein *in earnest*. And re-publish all those "The new Hitler" articles wordswapped about Maduro.
>>2516052>>2516080oh gee, well if maduro wants to do all these things i guess machado can't be much worse
i'm a neocon now
>>2516101you're putting the cart before the horse. prominent politicians get photographed touch the wall long after they have already proven themselves to be pieces of shit. They don't become pieces of shit as a result of touching he wall, touching the wall is just the cherry on top of the whole process.
>>2516092It would be really funny if archaeology eventually determines this wall is not actually part of the old temple
>>2516120archeology has determined a lot of things inconvenient for religion but religions keep on with the dogma anyways. You have giant creation museums in the US run by Ken Ham that teach the world is 6000 years old and people actually drag their kids to that shit. Evidence does not matter. People think the devil put fossils in the ground to trick people into believing in evolution. In the US people are mocked as soyjaks and fedoras for speaking out against this militant anti-materialism even a little bit.
>>2516136arabs are one of the most mercantile races on earth
(USER WAS BANNED FOR THIS POST) >>2516135> is crazy.Elaborate because it seems pretty boring right now.
>>2516157Glow-hell Peace Fries
>>2516142its true; both muslims and jews see manual labor as beneath them. its a semitic thing.
>>2516153idgaf about this reactionary's crocodile tears over some dumb idpol death threat letter a radlib sent him. he loves that shit. it benefits him.
>>2516115I think he’s just trying to riff
>>2516166>deus vult<non-believeramerican schizophrenia summed up nicely
>>2516162>its true; both muslims and jews see manual labor as beneath them. its a semitic thing.The history of all society is the history of class struggles and the ruling classes of all societies from the ancient slave empires to the feudal regimes to the modern capitalist empires see themselves as above manual labor.
>>2516166Uh oh, looks like trump is going to have to choose. Will it be golden jet plane or those Loomer blowjobs?
>>2516167Jd Vance go on cumtown
>>2516162>arabs are one of the most mercantile races on earth>mercantile races>>2516137>both muslims and jews see manual labor as beneath them. its a semitic thing.stop trying to be subtle /pol/. just spam a few happy merchants and call it a day.
>>2516178what is /pol/ about it? its a cultural fact.
>>2516167>>2516115>I think he’s just trying to riffI think he's trying to compliment him? I guess a 'backhanded insult?' I really don't get it. I think maybe he thinks we are supposed to believe that Jared Kushner really did solve the Palestinian conflict, so he's digging up this old article making fun of him to be like "and he proved the haters wrong too!" That's the only way I can make it make sense.
>>2516179>real life is elder scrolls. you get born with a higher mercantile stat because God chose "Arab" on the race slider when creating you.nah
>>2516183there's articles of them building bunkers going back to 2010
>>2516179It's getting tiring de-radicalizing you fucking retards but I guess we'll keep doing it. Better you're having the conversation than not I guess.
Anyways race doesn't exist, it truly actually doesn't. It's just scientifically NOT a thing, in any way shape or form.
If you're gonna talk about Arab CULTURE, that becomes a valid point. And you're probably also wrong there. And it's a dumb fucking argument to even have in the first place.
>>2516190conversation around culture becomes more *reasonable* sorry
>>2516165>idgaf about this reactionary's crocodile tearsYeah I don't either, but the whole situation and the spectacle are pretty crazy. Especially how he basically said: That Democrat guy running for AG or whatever should also be locked up right now, but I guess they can't. And on top of it he's just there giving a victim statement and he's acting like he's part of the administration or law enforcement(which is because in reality he basically is, I have no clue who he is other than I'm assuming he's a super MAGA "thought leader.")
>>2516194>I have no clue who he is other than I'm assuming he's a super MAGA "thought leader."Ok I just looked him up. Damn his wiki article is going hard on him. They don't even wait until the 'Controversies' section.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Benny_Johnson_(columnist)>Benny Johnson (born May 27, 1987)[2][3] is an American conservative political commentator[4] and YouTuber.[5] He has contributed to several conservative media outlets such as Breitbart News, TheBlaze, National Review, and The Daily Caller.
>Johnson was briefly associated with BuzzFeed but was fired due to several instances of plagiarism, where he used text from sources such as Yahoo Answers and Wikipedia without giving due credit.[6] Johnson has also worked for Turning Point USA and hosted for Newsmax TV. Holy shit they basically put it in 3 times in a row.
>>2516188>>2516190offended by reality
>>2516166what is this bitch even referencing? qatar building a base in the us?
>>2516223in northern Idaho yeah. trump announced it today
>>2516157was this actually a troll move on the part of the nobel committee? she begs on her knees for drumpf to rape venezuela but now drumpf will see all these headlines using her to criticize him
>>2516226Is it because they gave that one plane to Trump?
>>2516052doubt if true but even if it is imperialists dont want to make these kind of deals anymore. why make a deal where the government skims some of the profit, when you can just coup them and put in a cuck puppet like the shah of iran and have them give you stuff for free
>>2516227the nobel committee are just bourgeois liberals who hate "The Evil Undemocratic Dictator Maduro" and want to see him overthrown like the bourgeois toadies they are, but they don't like Drumpf for lacking manners and being a big oafish boar. That's all there is to it. It's not n-dimensional chess.
>>2516228that helped but I think what really elevated them was israel going behind trumps back and bombing the crap out of Doha. for a country that small they definitely punch above their weight diplomacy wise
>>2516227pretty much, she's a U.S puppet.
Why didn’t the Vietnam war push towards revolution?
>>2516080maduro is a mediocre retard and all the larpers here are gonna be extremely disappointed when he flees and/or folds the moment some fat americunt's boot touches venezuelan soils.
it's the assad delusion all over again.
>>2516244Because the would be revolutionaries believed in a form of hyper exclusive vanguardism and as a result didn't care about alienating everyone, just look at shit like the Weatherman congress
>>2516244>>2516264the biggest reason was getting rid of the draft, it sapped momentum and fractured movements. students didn't have a common cause with other groups as much, they could tune out and take the deal to be a yuppie
The Venezuelan Government has requested an emergency session of the United Nations Security Council, citing expectations of an “armed attack” by the United States against Venezuela in “a very short time,” according to CBS News.
>>2516244Kent State shooting.
>>2516157wtf did she even do anyway? Promote regime change? What a gusano
>>2516274Very much this. White people could cut their hair, shave, and merge right into the workforce. 1971 was the highest wages in the US after WW2, and there was plenty of work. It got harder and harder from the 80s to the 90s, but so slowly that lots of people were still able to make a decent living. Look at The Simpsons – it was plausible in the late 1980s that a poorly educated guy working at a public utliity could afford to have a single family home and his wife could be a stay at home mom. Preposterous today, but not uncommon in 1989 when the show came out.
>>2516204>meme responseThis is why you don’t debate racialists, they think in reddit
>>2516286Shouldnt that fuel the revolution?
>>2516303If we set everyone with a wojak folder on fire it would probably solve half of our problems
Massive blast at Tennessee explosives plant leaves several dead and others missinghttps://www.bbc.com/news/live/c0e9lyypedjtIron Felix I am sorry for doubting you
>>2516306I consneed Felix. I am sorry for doubting you.
>>2515252Almost as if Aliens are God.
>>2516313LOOOOOl
buSHART
SHUT IT DOWN GOY UNLESS YOU WANNA END UP LIKE CHUCKIE
>>2516303No, I think it was the last straw that finally broke the spirit of the movement. The US military gunned down unarmed students for protesting the war, and the police and the media and most of the general public thought it was completely justified and sided with Nixon and against the anti-war protestors, and it became clear that brute power had won and evil rules the world and the hippies could never bring down the Empire.
They did succeed in ending the war, though, it's important to keep that in mind. The Vietnam War would have gone on even longer if not for the anti-war movement causing mass civil unrest. The US government was legimately afraid of the leftist counterculture, particularly the solidarity between the white hippie movement and the civil rights movement, the joining forces of blacks and hippies in protesting the war really scared the shit out of the establishment and they fought very hard to stamp it out.
egg status?
>>2516158have there been any comfy protest live streams? Ive only seen chud freaks streaming as of late
>>2516306islamo trans leftist terrorism no doubt
Where are all the guerillas? Why is my feed full of people in dinosaur costumes? Force must be met with force. IEDs work on ICE convoys all the same as they did in Iraq. This silly bullshit is demoralizing and pathetic. No solidarity with those who are in the frog suits, grow up. How many Palestinians have to be killed before Americans give a fuck?
Maybe the treatler shit is right. How are these people no embarrassed.
>>2516244americans are cattle
>>2516346You’ll only be seeing “professional protestes” like these frog suit wearers until we hit a true breaking point, which is quite soon to be honest.
>>2516363wow. the usa has fallen sḿh
>>2516346The frog suit shit has its uses. Right now the current narrative the White House is running with is that Chicago and Portland are literally burning to the ground as antifa has overwhelmed the government and the brave MAGA patriots are hiding in fear. Dressing up in inflatable costumes and dancing in these anti-ICE protests, while silly looking, undermines the government narrative and makes them look like they're ridiculously overreacting in the process. The average American sees Trump sending in the national guard on people dressed up in frog costumes as a sign of weakness from the state, and anything that undermines the state's credibility helps us
>>2516368I don’t think we’ll see arm resistance till like a democrat governor is arrest or ice turning the Super Bowl in a blood bath.
>>2516346Getting there. I can't find it now but yesterday I saw a thread on one of the local Chicago subreddits with like 18k upvotes where the majority of the posters were cheering a guy who threw a rock through the window of an ICE vehicle. A year ago people would have said he was "giving the cops an excuse" or condemned the violence but now they're cheering. It looked like a white dude too.
>>2516157Out of touch snowmonkey committee issues war prize to agent of foreign power
>>2516390>>2516370Resistance is a process and it doesn't happen overnight. Most people are still heavily indoctrinated with the ideals of peaceful unobstructive protests bringing meaningful change, because that's what's taught to them in school about what brought down the Warsaw Pact and other "regimes". Some of them are shaking it off, liberal wine moms in particular have been pretty quick to call for blood, but the revolutionary potential of the American people needs more defrosting.
Also I think it's relevant to add that one of the unofficial cultural things that fascism likes to impose on people is the shaming and elimination of any joy and happiness that doesn't come from sadism directed at those weaker than you. Happiness is ONLY acceptable to them if it comes from collecting skulls of black children, laughter is ONLY acceptable if it's laughter at the sight of a trans women being stoned to death. All positive emotions derived from sources other than cruelty are to be discarded as "soy". Hence why it's important to have fun while you bash the fash
>>2516346How long did it take Gazans (or Hamas) to go on a suicide-murder attack against Israel? Years of suffering and trying peaceful means to solve the problem.
USA is very far from that. Guerrillas come only when the suffering is unbearable and there's nothing to lose. Asking people to throw away their lives in a heroic act is asking too much
>>2516100His interns write anything longer than a couple sentences.
>>2516107>I'm half expecting for the USAnos to start editing Maduro in photos to look more like Saddam Hussein Maduro should do this. Saddam's uniform is way more drippy than the suit, which clashes with the beret
>>2516440
I can assure you based on the fact that I'm still e-begging here for rent money, that whatever this 'collective' is shaping up to be, is not the vanguard you're looking for, and probably won't be for sometime.
>>2516107"The War on Drugs" has always been the moral justification of Liberal democracies to implement imperialist and racist policies after ethnonationalism and racialism fell out of favor.
>>2516153>killed in an open field just like CharlieThat didn’t even happen lol
>>2516346you yourself are unwilling to engage in direct action and operate in legal grey areas; why would you expect others to?
>>2516368Can someone tell them to start wearing clown costumes? It would be much more appropriate.
>>2516447Houdini fetishises the counter culture of Britain in the 70s-90s. He just wants to create this little punk-ish, anarchist-ish little crew where they try hard to be too cool. They both want and do not want people to take them seriously. They both want and not want to actually do something. They are political gooners, constant wanking without ever climaxing.
Houdini idolises May 68. To have the form of a revolutionary, but the content of a fashionista. To muse edgily on every happening, but to never engage in the background hard work in between happenings, which are essential to cause future happenings.
Houdini worships the Black Panthers. Because Houdini wants to be a fleeting wave of revolutionary sloganeering, leather-wearing, gun-holding cultural icon. But one which does not seriously attempt to overthrow the fascist state, one which does not even dare think about it.
Rule of cool will lead him nowhere, and that’s how he likes it.
>>2516461Unironically yeah, some Joker costumes here and there would be good optics
>>2516225It took her less than twelve hours from getting the nobel prize to call the US to bomb her country, this must be some kind of record
>>2516466I'm the jokah, baybee!
>>2516346You talk a real big game for someone who obviously isn't out there setting IEDs himself
>>2516225>Thank you Nobel Foundation! Very cool.It's funny I never even heard of this chick before this morning on the news, and my first instinct was she was some American comprador agent, and what do you know.
Remember when Trump brought the Guido to the SOTU and everyone gave him a standing ovation including the squad and AOCIA and the rest?
Too perfect this lady immediately slaps the Dems in the face when they were probably all lined up to kiss the ground she walks on as the next girl boss messiah for world peace and democracy.
>>2516225Is there a more meaningless award in the world than the Nobel PISS Prize? The fucking Razzies or any random Miss Universe contest have better selection criteria and prestige.
Well for anybody who wants to take some magical direct action, this would work best with a proper altar to Qayin and materials harvested from a properly consecrated garden but it should work with store bought materials. Anyways.
So we all hate the people in power and folks affiliated with them, Laura Loomer, Libs of TikTok, JD Vance, the works. They suck. They all suck. Would you like to smite them like the vermin they are? First, construct a crude effigy of them out of whatever, which you will hang over the incense mixture. As for the incense itself, this Malediction blend will require the following
>2 parts tobacco
>1 part sulphur
>1 part stinging nettle (make sure you dry the plant out first before handling it)
>1 part patchouli
>1 part black mustard seeds
>1 part chili powder
>1 part asafoetida
>1/2 part dry grave soil
Once you've got that together, collect that in those little thingies you burn incense in and dangle the effigies over the smoke. Be sure to burn this either outdoors or in a well ventilated area and avoid inhaling the smoke if at all possible. Thank you for your attention to this matter!
>>2516490Why waste it on non-entities like Vance and Loomer?
It’d be better to get a guy like Thiel. Though he is much harder to reach.
>>2516447I would personally never pay you for rent and writing your uneducated articles.
I would pay you to read Marx, Engels, Lenin, though.
>>2516495I was just listing random examples, you can use it on Theil too although I think someone like him might have some magical protections. Otherwise someone would have killed him already.
every single thread on this website is gay and retarded
>>2516516and you’re gay and retarded for posting in any of them
New statement from dear leader on the China question from a little less than an hour ago now.
>It has just been learned that China has taken an extraordinarily aggressive position on Trade in sending an extremely hostile letter to the World, stating that they were going to, effective November 1st, 2025, impose large scale Export Controls on virtually every product they make, and some not even made by them. This affects ALL Countries, without exception, and was obviously a plan devised by them years ago. It is absolutely unheard of in International Trade, and a moral disgrace in dealing with other Nations.
>Based on the fact that China has taken this unprecedented position, and speaking only for the U.S.A., and not other Nations who were similarly threatened, starting November 1st, 2025 (or sooner, depending on any further actions or changes taken by China), the United States of America will impose a Tariff of 100% on China, over and above any Tariff that they are currently paying. Also on November 1st, we will impose Export Controls on any and all critical software.
>It is impossible to believe that China would have taken such an action, but they have, and the rest is History. Thank you for your attention to this matter!
>DONALD J. TRUMP
>PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA …
>>2516528Here's your anti-NATO anti-imperialZts bro…
>>2516535Trump loves getting his ass kissed more than anything else in the world. This is how Sheinbaum has managed to avoid his wrath for so long.
>>2516520Here's the first Trump truth about chynah of the day.
>Some very strange things are happening in China! They are becoming very hostile, and sending letters to Countries throughout the World, that they want to impose Export Controls on each and every element of production having to do with Rare Earths, and virtually anything else they can think of, even if it’s not manufactured in China. Nobody has ever seen anything like this but, essentially, it would “clog” the Markets, and make life difficult for virtually every Country in the World, especially for China. We have been contacted by other Countries who are extremely angry at this great Trade hostility, which came out of nowhere. Our relationship with China over the past six months has been a very good one, thereby making this move on Trade an even more surprising one. I have always felt that they’ve been lying in wait, and now, as usual, I have been proven right! There is no way that China should be allowed to hold the World “captive,” but that seems to have been their plan for quite some time, starting with the “Magnets” and, other Elements that they have quietly amassed into somewhat of a Monopoly position, a rather sinister and hostile move, to say the least. But the U.S. has Monopoly positions also, much stronger and more far reaching than China’s. I have just not chosen to use them, there was never a reason for me to do so — UNTIL NOW! The letter they sent is many pages long, and details, with great specificity, each and every Element that they want to withhold from other Nations. Things that were routine are no longer routine at all. I have not spoken to President Xi because there was no reason to do so. This was a real surprise, not only to me, but to all the Leaders of the Free World. I was to meet President Xi in two weeks, at APEC, in South Korea, but now there seems to be no reason to do so. The Chinese letters were especially inappropriate in that this was the Day that, after three thousand years of bedlam and fighting, there is PEACE IN THE MIDDLE EAST. I wonder if that timing was coincidental? Dependent on what China says about the hostile “order” that they have just put out, I will be forced, as President of the United States of America, to financially counter their move. For every Element that they have been able to monopolize, we have two. I never thought it would come to this but perhaps, as with all things, the time has come. Ultimately, though potentially painful, it will be a very good thing, in the end, for the U.S.A. One of the Policies that we are calculating at this moment is a massive increase of Tariffs on Chinese products coming into the United States of America. There are many other countermeasures that are, likewise, under serious consideration. Thank you for your attention to this matter!
>DONALD J. TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA >>2516538>They are becoming very hostileWell, gee, I wonder why they'd become hostile to the US and EU all of a sudden, and for no real reason.
>>2516520>It has just been learnedwhy is he writing in the third person
>>2516538>But the U.S. has Monopoly positions also, much stronger and more far reaching than China’s. I have just not chosen to use them, there was never a reason for me to do so — UNTIL NOW!What fanfic writer did they tap to pen this slop?
>>2516549top ten things that is:
1) true
2) real
3) true & real
>>2516549does anyone even watch Agent Kochinski anymore? i thought he got arrested
aunt FIFA
honkoid status?
>>2516528jesus that bitch is boring to listen to
>>2516528president pootin. president fartin
charlie kirk death celebration @ tha white house
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>>2516082I'm not saying this is wrong, obviously such is the case, but it becomes obvious that once again the way to abolish this as a problem is by abolishing poverty
>>2516626can't do that inside the current system
No one is to blame. It is neither their fault nor ours. It is the misfortune of being born when a whole world is dying.
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