When AI replaces 50% of the workforce by the end of the decade is that gonna actually make the normies start a revolution?
Because just looking at it artists have already been replaced, you can easily get a AI to do your marketing then have to pay a person to do so, and the shit has been introduced everywhere.
I don't know if leftypol is even paying attention to this but I think it will cause mass instability
Do you not think the AI algorithms have this in their calculation?
We are expecting this
>>2520060What are XML and XSLT?
>>2520060>XML and XSLT will replace AIlol look at this rationalist folly
>>2520062XML stores data, XSLT takes that data and punches it into a template.
https://developer.mozilla.org/en-US/docs/Web/XML/XSLTI learned about it from people using it to decorate their RSS feeds
https://envs.net/~lucidiot/rsrsss/feed.xmlbut you can do so much with this.
>>2520075This is cool but how does this replace the function of LLMs?
They will create new bullshit jobs that pay like shit but you have no choice because the alternative is homelessness
>>2520076LLMs are a toy and fuck up when you give them any repetitive work tasks. If you're trying to send someone a boilerplate email you could just make a template with dialouge trees and jusi punch in the current case's data with xml faster than you could wrangle an LLM to do it.
>>2520076Now you got me curious about trying to make whole sentences with xsl. Like grammar is a syntax, surely even that could be done if you feed it enough semantics about each word, maybe import a randomness library.
>>2520037>When AI replaces 50% of the workforce by the end of the decadecomplete fantasy. 5% tops.
>>2520079No you're dumb, LLM even in their current state have a gigantic amount of use cases that can automate huge swathes of current human labor.
>>2520092Incorrect. LLM will replace most bullshit jobs and also a significant chunk of non bullshit jobs. But the ruling class already has a solution to this, they will create even more bullshitter jobs. Also deport more people to reduce unemployment. Also start a war to cull excess labor and push millions into armament factories.
>>2520093they autoamte office work. LLMs are not going down into the earth and pulling out ores. they aren't constructing buildings. they aren't screwing in lightbulbs, sweeping floors, wiping the assess of demented geezers, performing surgery, flying planes, stocking shelves, unloading trucks and ships, tilling fields, pouring asphalt, etc.
>>2520096> most bullshit jobs is a far cry from
>50% of the work force. >>2520098They are already capable of doing that. Just need to build the robotics to run that LLM program. Yes Chatgpt can wipe my ass. Yes there will be sexbots soon. Yes it will result in the return of harems as chads get actual unironic harems of dozens of women while betas get sexbots. Both will be kinda happy. Betas/incels will still be jealous ofc. But sexbots is better than no sex or sex with a woman thats not attracted to you.
>>2520101>Just need to build the robotics to run that LLM programuh huh. and who's gonna do that? workers.
>the rest of your posttake it to /r9k/
>>2520098>they autoamte office work.Name one office job that couldn't be replaced with XML and XSLT
>>2520108You are delusional. Not too long ago 90% of the population worked in agriculture. Now that's 2%. Then 30-50% of the population worked directly or indirectly in manufacturing. Now that's 10%.
Every one of these transitions involved the creation of vast amounts of bullshit jobs in order to keep capitalism going. The bullshit jobs are capitalisms version of feudal lords commissioning the building of cathedrals or forts or whatever to keep people busy and keep circulation of money going. Or Egyptian kings building pyramids etc. you know where I'm going with this
You only need 1% of the population involved in designing and building robots. You have no idea how much humanoid robots are going to destroy every fucking job out there..
As for /r9k/ let's just say that the base affects the superstructure. Human relationships are superstructure. The economic relations are the base. And human relationships are an EXTREMELT important part of what it means to be human. You know where I'm going with this.
>>2520101I would rather have sex with a fully FOSS robotgirl, actually. Machine learning creates a blackbox.
>>2520128The uncertainty adds to the excitement. You'll never know when the LLM just decides to rip out your dick
>>2520123you're delusional. i actually work in a field where workers have been replaced with AI and while a lot of people lost their jobs, a lot of other people, qualified or not, simply got shuffled onto dev teams where they attend endless sprint meetings and talk to the devs about what the software they're supposed to be replacing workers with is actually supposed to do. Turns out the devs are clueless half the time about the software they're supposed to be building, are vibe coding with chatgpt themselves and producing highly unoptimized code that runs poorly. LLMs are not going to replace "50% of jobs by the end of the decade" and I am not "delusional" for thinking so. Please wake me up when your magical moisture-resistant LLM powered robots that are built and maintained by other LLM powered robots are mining the quartz instead of children in Africa.
If you had said something more reasonable like "automation" (not just "AI") would replace 50% of the currently existing jobs by the end of the century I would have found that a lot more reasonable of a claim, though still highly speculative. But your claim is not only speculative, but alarmist and ridiculous. Things are moving fast, but not nearly that fast. For AI alone (robotics is an additional layer) to replace 50% of all human jobs by the end of the decade, i.e. only 5 more years, is an insane claim. But even then, technological unemployment results in a bunch of people who make no wages and therefore can buy no commodities. If you really want to replace humans with robots so that robots can produce commodities faster and more cheaply than those humans, you have to give those humans new jobs so that they can continue purchase those commodities. Otherwise they become homeless and eventually die and then you've lost a huge market of people you sell commodities to. So in reality what we've seen in the past is temporary technological unemployment followed by the creation of new jobs, usually jobs that revolve around servicing and maintaining existing technology that has replaced old jobs.
fixed a couple typos >>2520060stop with the copium please
>>2520123"humanoid robots" are basically just mechanical-turks in their current state, if you want a humanoid robot that can mine cobalt? not gonna happen for at least 10-15 years
>>2520304Okay, cool? I'll be alive for another 60 years, god willing. So I'll be unemployed for only 45 years in the best case scenario. If your robot can mine ores, it's smart enough to do like 90% of other jobs.
If I can get a sexbot and $2000/mo UBI I will straight up stop giving a shit about communism and imperialism and suck Zionist dick till eternity. I'm too tired to fight anymore
>>2520315i'm presuming a best case scenario even then for AI robotics, you're gonna be working a standard dayjob in the thiel pan-opticon, it's over man
>>2520297Coping for what? You can't just accuse of coping at random, coping is context dependent.
"AI" is copium, the tech to replace every job that AI is supposedly meant to replace already existed. AI brings nothing to the table yet has become the load bearing drywall of the imperial core's economy.
Are there any Marxists on this site? Has literally anyone understood Marx? or is it just me :3 AI can never make history because it cannot expend labor-power. That's it. AI will never replace humans because only we can actually experience and write history. AI can just sort data.
>>2520317You'll get bored of that after a while.
>>2520317Everyone knows it's really a mombot and not a sexbot.
>>2520394*makes a robot that can expend labour power*
btfo
>>2520317how does zionist fascism bombing palestinian children into chunky marinara sauce result in you getting a sexbot and UBI? I don't even see the connection. Zionists are just straight up killing palestinians. they aren't even exploiting them for cheap commodity production. if a glorified human sized fleshlight and 2000/mo is really all it takes to permanently shut you up about genocide maybe you're useless and should be shut up permanently, period. You're "tired" but I bet you haven't even exhausted yourself in any fashion. Just disgusting. Appreciate your honesty though. So many of you try to pretend to be better than this.
>>2520444destroying the planet to make memes that don't change anyone's minds and just makes people who already agreed with you laugh.
>>2520444If people see that your agitprop is AI generated they'll associate what you have to say with web enshittification, that your stance is itself the product of AI slop and search engine optimization, while with rightoid AI "memes" this is not a contradiction, which is why they tend to use it even when inconvenient.
Either say what you want to convey directly, or make a small doodle, even traced if it features topical figureheads (not reccomended), that would be more effective and not risk being counter-effective through being transparently fake.
>>2520455AI is laughably inefficient to the point of being unprofitable, but it's adverse environmental impacts pale in comparison to DRM, javascript frameworks, telemetry or the data centers storing said telemetry.
Training is the issue, and since China is in the lead in the AI industry (unfortunately for china) most of that training is done on clean energy. Basically a non-issue ecologically, but impending doom economically. (which is a good thing)
>>2520461>winning twitter debates is dismantling societyYou're ignoring so many technologies that would assist better to this end in favor of a fruitless one.
>>2520461Socialism isn’t gonna be possible if all the food chains collapse. 150 years of carbon fueled industrialization has put a similar amount of CO2 in the atmosphere as thousands of years of Siberian volcanic eruptions did during a period scientists call it “The Great Dying”. I don’t see how you recover from that with new growth reforestation and a messy transition to “renewable” energy sources that still require mining and environmental destruction to build and maintain. The idea that humans have either conquered or are separated from nature is a myth. Unless you manage to bioengineer entirely mew species to fill in gaps of the extinct ones, I don’t see how even full world communist revolution fixes or copes with this.
>>2520486>entirely mew speciesGMO catgirl AES
>>2520486But, like, isn't this a solved problem? We have so much wealth lying around that with central planning we can reduce production to a minimum, reduce the work day to a minimum, let people explore the fruits of human labor for like a decade with the amount of free time and let them partake in any and all hobies with so much stuff lying around in warehouses. Wasn't the planet rapidly healing during the lockdowns or am I too optimistic?
>>2520461>don't use the technics of society to dismantle society, that would be le wrongnot what I stated, remotely.
I don't believe there's a marginal point where "Things get bad = Revolution", maybe some spontaneous insurrections, but revolutions need organizing. And organizing, beyond all else, is what we're totally deficient in.
I think the "best" we'll possibly see is some kind of Nepal situation where a seemingly "spontaneous" uprising ousts the old political establishment, but without real organization it just means that the conditions which gave rise to that uprising will remain and people will just "elect new leaders".
>>2520499
my favorite genre of reactionary trolling is when any concern for having a sustainable environment whatsoever gets dismissed as "ecofascism"
>>2520581a lot of it really is
>>2520037>WhenIf only. In reality it won't, no matter how productive AI or robots are, because jobs under any mode of production are socially predicated on perpetuating the system that produces them. Automation under "feudalism" also resulted in more "bullshit jobs" (endless servant roles, merchants, etc.). It was the same in the USSR where no matter the level of automation work hours remained stagnant from the 1930s till the end. The same of course has happened under capitalism.
It's not going to change until people decide that 20 hours or less per week is enough, no matter the standard of living this enforces.
Until then jobs will keep becoming more farcical, abstract and alienating. And the mountain of (both digital and physical) 'slop' produced to make it bearable will also keep growing.
Like why the fuck are people in China working as much as they did in 1990 when they now have fully automated factories where trucks are produced with 0 human input?
>>2521000we are a doomed species.
>>2520554ah but cpua anon havent you thought that maybe things get bad is when organization starts happening?
Humans are cheaper than robots in the short term. We have not seen long term planning in economy where the companies plan is to make everyone obsulete
>>2520075>>2520060>XML + XSLTAny other developments that will out compete “ai”, anon?
>>2521052Well there's blockly: it's like scratch but you define tranlations for each block and you can get code in another language. If someone made blockly maps for rust I think it would save "vibe coders" a lot of time prompt wrangling since they could just drag the blocks for the functionality they want in place.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BlocklyNow that I think about it this is pretty much XSLT but with visual editing. I should look at blockly under the hood and see if that's what it is. If not I could try a crack at making such in godot.
>>2520554well i mean you do need things to get bad, or at least substantially worse than the normal for things to actually start happening, organization really only matters if there's anything actually going on, as you'll learn from a good few historical examples
>>2520554>>2521009>>2521079The central flaw here is thinking people revolting because they're starving is meaningful at all. Starving pigs will gladly devour you, but you wouldn't exactly call this a revolution would you?
The fact people generally only feel compelled to act 'violently' (i.e. the kind of violence directed at the bourgeoisie and capital itself instead of workers) and revolt when materially deprived should be utterly black pilling in itself.
Events like Nepal or Madagascar aren't signs these uprisings aren't 'spontaneous' (hate that word really, as if this shit happens in a vacuum based on a dice roll), or that they're controlled by shadowy NGOs or whatever.
The issue is they're revolts motivated by a 'primal' material deprivation. Not 'choice'. A bunch of libs revolting in Hong Kong because they don't like the CeeCeePee is way more existential and 'meaningful' (in the existential sense) than some bread or water or whatever riot over in Madagascar.
There's this issue where communism is viewed as something that is ultimately imposed upon people. You don't 'will' communism into existence, you don't choose it. It's something that just 'happens'.
>When the conditions are rightAKA eschaton, the rapture. One day we all wake up and find The Revolution happening or having happened. Alternatively it's viewed as something some outside group forces upon "the masses", e.g. scary totalitarians (lib position).
I'm also convinced 90% of the shitting on "individualism" and "revolutionary adventurism" comes from this idea others are meant to save you.
There's very little appetite for the idea workers already have power (which you know Marx explicitly argued in his writings), and we are already 'free' to act differently, and enact changes even if they completely fuck up "the economy". Hell especially if we're explicitly aware they will.
Communism begins with choice. And I don't mean strictly individual. And sure, one can bring up Stalin talking about 'how there can be freedom if one is starving.' In which he had a point. But he should have taken it further; what meaningful freedom is expressed as self-avowed 'communists' if we're not willing to
choose starvation and death over anything
but communism?
The fact most shy away from 'theft' or anything illegal, no matter if they feel materially deprived or not, is damning for the idea of a "mass" and truly "global" Communism being possible itself.
>When AI replaces 50% of the workforce by the end of the decadeI am once again asking anons to read the chapter on machines in vol I:
https://www.marxists.org/archive/marx/works/1867-c1/ch15.htm >>2521233what if machines consume and also build machines
>>2521009>>2521079>well i mean you do need things to get bad, or at least substantially worse than the normal for things to actually start happening, organization really only matters if there's anything actually going on, as you'll learn from a good few historical examplesSee things have been getting bad for a while now. I mean talking about my own family, my grandfather was a manager for Sears back in the day and could afford a home in a good neighborhood, a wife that could stay at home, three kids, vacations, and a really cozy retirement. My dad is a manager in a grocery store and could afford a house near "the ghetto" and two kids with my mom having to work to support us, and even then the house is showing its age and needs repairs.
I work in a grocery store and can afford to rent.
Things have gotten worse for a substantial number of people. Though I suspect part of the problem is we engage in this Steven Pinker line of thinking where we fallaciously compare the economy of today to underdeveloped economies of yesterday: "Oh you think this is bad? Well did you know that a century ago you would've been an illiterate dirt farmer?!"
Shit if I remember right, Lenin thought Communists should be organizing always, in good conditions and in bad ones. But I think it's something curious to the American political imagination where we only perceive political change coming from a general collapse. Wait for the old system to just kill over, revert back to the Wild West, then as the old saying goes "MY civilization will emerge from the ashes!"
Like fucking Ayn Rand of all people thought the state collapsing would give libertarians carte blanche to build their utopia. So I don't believe the poor state we find ourselves in is a matter of "conditions not being right" or some inherent failure on the part of the people. I think its on us. I believe we have to take responsibility for the state of the Left here. And we need to figure out better strategies for actually organizing people in real life.
I know this is gonna piss people off, but I was reading a bunch of articles on Trump and the rise of nationalism globally. The more explicitly lefty ones repeated this mantra: "The ONLY way to defeat Trump's nationalism is with International Working Class Solidarity." Well in practice what does that even mean? Why is that the only way? And people will scoff or insinuate its some kind of chauvinism on my part, but I'm serious: what does that mean? What does "defeating Trump's nationalism with international proletarian solidarity" mean in practice? It's a call to action but the "act" is completely occluded. Is it trying to harken to something already existing? In which case how many Americans consciously see themselves as "proles" or part of some "international working class"? Hell, how many people in
any country see themselves as that? Or does it mean declaring that people are part of an international working class so they "should" reject Trump's nationalism on those grounds? In which case, well, to me that sounds like an evangelical Christian trying to get things banned for being "Blasphemous" in a wholly secularized society, you're presuming a commitment to an idea that most people don't already have. Does it mean international workers "do" anything or is it all on the domestic working class? What is it that we "do"?
That's a lot of what we're lacking. We've got these starry-eyed types that talk theory and say the right words, but there's no list of things we should actually be doing in concrete terms.
>>2521318>So I don't believe the poor state we find ourselves in is a matter of "conditions not being right"it is at least partially the cause
>What does "defeating Trump's nationalism with international proletarian solidarity" mean?i think the problem is they assume intuitively that you do know, because what i think they mean is "go connect people to struggles abroad and inform people to reject chauvinist nationalism" which is all well and good but that's a pretty tall order, one that even a fairly well organized group would have to do at the micro-level to even have an effect, the problem is that there is effectively no strategy book, or anything like it published, and if there is one it's gonna get attacked by sectarians for not fitting their favorite 20th century institution, but on the point i made about "things are gonna have to get a lot worse than the normal for things to start happening", i think the problem CPUSAnon is that for the most part, things haven't really gotten much worse than the "Normal" since the "Normal" is shit for most, but for the most part it isn't a condition prone to riot, protest? maybe but it's rare that protests cause mass movements to attempt to seize power, it's not exactly an exaggeration that homelessness would need to climb astronomically, starvation would need to be a serious threat, and other horrific things for things to even have a chance at actually changing. and that is incredibly depressing although true
>>2521247we already have that. they're called industrial robots
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