/leftypol/ - Leftist Politically Incorrect

interview to Evo
Nothing much, just the pleplease and that both candidates are in the empire pocket, but the bolivian people are free to choose.

Why didn’t Arce just let Evo back in? Arce is not a charismatic politician and he knew it, why not give i back to the guy who can actually rally people?

>>2527823
Too much interparty conflicts, Evo accused Arce of a rightwingzation and Arce accused Evo of corruption and gave freeway to an attempt of a Deevization, obvious example, the case of Evo having a lover who was a m1n0r was brought back in
Reaaally heavy things would have needed to be buried to reach something of a compromise

what did he expect to happen when he told his voters to vote blank? retard

People died in the 2000s for their too even be an election where MAS Could run in, people died to overthrow añez the leadership failed those people Morales should have understood its not about him it's about the people

Kind of amazing to read the replies in this thread and see people look at the complete implosion of Social Democracy in South America only to double-down on reformism even harder. >>2527823 is seemingly incapable of recognizing the class struggle within MAS and hilariously reduces Arce's failure to a lack of charisma. Meanwhile >>2527824 reduces the struggle within MAS to effectively gossip about the personal issues of its leaders. Most embarrassing are >>2527945 and >>2528020 who essentially regurgitate "vote blue no matter who" nonsense blaming the results of a neo-colonial bourgeois election on one indigenous man because he didn't tell people to vote harder. Absurd and embarassing. You people aren't communists, or even vaguely "left". Maybe y'all would find some agreement on Reddit. Try r/worldnews.

>>2528355
Reformism doubled the size of the Bolivian economy and brought infrastructure and jobs to people that never had it before, the 2006 election was basically a revolution

>>2527823
because arce is a traitor who wanted to go more neolib, obviously

>>2528355
>blaming the results of a neo-colonial bourgeois election on one indigenous man because he didn't tell people to vote harder.
except that's literally the case because the number of blank ballots would have been enough to elect a left wing candidate. there is no "they didn't let me" or "I was sabotaged" or really any excuse in politics. and I'm not talking about evo but the mas in general, although it is worth mentioning that the party had a strong personalist component. you tell people not to vote? ok, what's the next step, are you going to engage in ppw? no? then what? you are going to continue the struggle through institutions with the unions and such? then you only made things harder by conceding an election that was winnable

there were candidates to the left of arce (and maybe to the left of evo himself) with winning chances had evo told his supporters to vote for them. now every single member of the mas from village chieftain upwards is going to prison once the evangelic guy setups the lawfare machine

>>2528359
>Reformism doubled the size of the Bolivian economy
The raw size of an economy is not a good thing in itself. It does not automatically translate to improvements in economic and social standing for the workers. Why are Bolivian workers so disaffected as to either abandon MAS or electoral politics entirely? Is that reason connected to the real conditions they face, not how much a line went up, or do you think they're just stupid?
>and brought infrastructure and jobs
For what and for who? Are you a communist or the mayor of a US city?
>to people that never had it before
Please. What exactly do you think people were doing before noble capitalism swooped in to build roads and give the people non-specific "jobs"? Do you think they just had their thumb up their asses saying "man, I wish I could mine silver for a Canadian company instead of doing absolutely nothing all day!" Glad noble capitalism in league with social democracy could show these backwards people with absolutely no agency or lives before industrialization that there is a better way.

>>2528421
>the number of blank ballots would have been enough to elect a left wing candidate.
…
>you tell people not to vote? ok, what's the next step, are you going to engage in ppw? no? then what? you are going to continue the struggle through institutions with the unions and such?
Again, it's amazing how the actual problem is right in front of your face and then you just go right on back to >you only made things harder by conceding an election that was winnable

Should have elected the Bolivian Socialist Falange, the REAL vanguard of the working class

>>2528355
sure, fair critiques. and MAS objectively helped the people of bolivia, developing internal production and infrastructure, and allowing them a much greater degree of national sovereignty in world affairs. they also spectacularly failed at holding together their position and gains. but i dont see how the obvious conclusion you take from that is, what, they shouldve just waged protracted peoples war? that has as much a record of failure even just in andean countries alone. they simply should have done it better?

im not saying there shouldnt have been more militant and revolutionary efforts. but youre not exactly providing a helpful analysis yourself, just haughty dismissiveness with no new information.

>>2528717
>objectively helped the people of bolivia, developing internal production and infrastructure, and allowing them a much greater degree of national sovereignty in world affairs.
So standard capitalism?

>>2528797
no?

>>2528355
A movement destroying itself due to infighting is not a problem specific to reformism. Revolutionary organizations are just as capable of imploding this way too (probably even more so).

>>2528355
>reduces the struggle within MAS to effectively gossip about the personal issues of its leaders
Tell me what was the great ideological difference between the two? Evo called Arce a neoliberal and rightist while Arce let the judiciary bite him like a pillow, the MAS state has not changed a pinch in the meanwhile.
The main problem is that THE ECONOMY FUCKING EXPLODED and Evo/Arce did their part in fueling the fire by sabotaging the state.
Any goal of deepening the revolution died when the price of lithium went down

Imagine you bet heavy on one horse and said horse does this

>>2528717
>what, they shouldve just waged protracted peoples war? that has as much a record of failure even just in andean countries alone.
At least there IS a chance, even if it is small, at establishing a peoples republic. Reformism is a guaranteed failure right from the beginning because it has never, in the entire history of humanity, ever established a socialist state.

>>2528717
>MAS objectively helped the people of bolivia
I don't deny that there were positive aspects to "Socialism in the 21st Century" at its height. Evo and MAS had a genuine mass base. My challenge to y'all is to actually investigate where that all went beyond essentially saying "they're idiots voting against their interests" like a bunch of Democrats.
>developing internal production and infrastructure, and allowing them a much greater degree of national sovereignty in world affairs.
Socialism is not when the government does stuff.
>they also spectacularly failed at holding together their position and gains.
Why?
>but i dont see how the obvious conclusion you take from that is, what, they shouldve just waged protracted peoples war?
Genuinely very cute that y'all's go-to argument against essentially any critique I make is to pretend I'm suggesting that anyone should "just do PPW bro". That's never what I'm saying. What I will say is that any "gains" made in a bourgeois state within bourgeois electoralism should directly and explicitly be in service to building revolution to overthrow that state. Maintaining electoral power is not the aim in itself, and will always fall apart in this way. Expecting the bourgeois state to allow socialism to be built within it is like asking a printer to cook you a steak. The machinery cannot understand or allow that kind of use.
>That has as much a record of failure even just in andean countries alone.
Ah okay, so let's just forget about revolution in general then. After all, failure can only ever be failure. The Paris Commune failed, let's forget about that. The Russian Revolution collapsed in the long term, so lets forget that too. The Cultural Revolution also failed, so fuck that noise. The tactics and strategies of these experiences can only be viewed as failures because they didn't produce the oh-so-important "results" that we're looking for! Things can never have successful and failed aspects, or lessons, they can only be either-or. So let's stick with what we know works: social democratic reformism!
>im not saying there shouldnt have been more militant and revolutionary efforts. but youre not exactly providing a helpful analysis yourself, just haughty dismissiveness with no new information.
And you typed all this just to say nothing. "b-b-but MAS did the best they could! I'm not saying they had the correct line, b-b-but they did!"

>>2528837
When did I say revolutionary movements were incapable of infighting? Do you have anything of value to add?

>>2528891
>Tell me what was the great ideological difference between the two?
>Evo called Arce a neoliberal and rightist while Arce let the judiciary bite him like a pillow, the MAS state has not changed a pinch in the meanwhile.
Evo was right. Where he was wrong was in not interrogating (or held accountable to) his own liberalism/opportunism. However Evo's base and position in relation to the indigenous peoples of Bolivia, and the working class movement, held him to the left of Arce. Class struggle takes place in all things, even liberalism.
>The main problem is that THE ECONOMY FUCKING EXPLODED
Which of course had nothing to do with MAS' positions. Things just happen with no cause or reason. Who can know what makes the economy do things!
>Evo/Arce did their part in fueling the fire by sabotaging the state.
Neither man can be held individually responsible for the inherent trend of opportunist "socialism" to collapse back into capitalism and neo-colonialism. Arce led MAS' deep slide into open opportunism and neoliberalism, but he was put in the position to lead by a party that was already interested in making that turn.

>>2528902
*laughs in Nepal*
le "People's Wars" aren't a guarantee of anything at all.

>>2529213
It did work in Nepal doe (for a time)

>>2529173
>where that all went
a US backed coup, evo having to run away, his party fighting back and getting arce in power instead, arce deviating right, evo denouncing him while arce use his power to fuck him, shitshow cause right wing to win legit this time

>What I will say is that any "gains" made in a bourgeois state within bourgeois electoralism should directly and explicitly be in service to building revolution to overthrow that state
not that I really disagree, but in latam, thats just inviting a US intervention or at least heavy sanctions though

>>2529213
You could literally say that about any revolutionary state/period/movement
Go be a liberal somewhere else then kid

>>2529509
>a US backed coup
This is a surface-level "analysis" from the start. Why did the coup initially succeed, and why did it ultimately fall apart? Was the US stupid?
>his party fighting back and getting arce in power instead
Why was Arce established as the new leadership of the Party, and what did this politically represent in relation to the previous coup and its demands? Connect this to the two coups against Jean-Bertrand Aristide and why he was allowed to resume his presidency in 1994, but wasn't allowed to after 2004.
>arce deviating right
Why did Arce do this, and why did MAS largely go along with it? Again, think about the politics around Arce assuming leadership after the coup.
>evo denouncing him while arce use his power to fuck him
Was Evo wrong to struggle against the further rightward opportunist wing of MAS?
>shitshow cause right wing to win legit this time
Can we view the right wing winning an election in a neo-colonial situation the same as how Leninism has traditionally viewed electoral politics in imperialist countries? Is this really an indicator of where the masses are at? I would say no to both. In fact, I'd say the data argues the opposite in terms of electoral power. The organized left-wing of MAS has firmly demonstrated that it is the essential component for any left electoral victory, and will not budge, while the right is in a position to be constantly hounded and disrupted by that organized left until another election is called. The critical question moving forward is how far that left is willing to go. If the neo-colonial state further intensifies its repression against the left (a continuation of Arce's policies, it must be noted) will they intensify in-kind up to and including People's War, protracted or otherwise? Is Evo prepared to break with "Socialism in the 21st Century", or will he find himself to the right of his own people?

why are people in tarija more right wing than other highland departments? are they mestizo and not indigenous?

>>2529709
>Why
>Why
>Why
if you know then you're welcome to tell us, I'm not an expert on bolivia by any means

>>2529973
Not asking for expertise, I'm trying to encourage y'all do do the barest amount of investigation before drooling on the keyboard and pressing "New Reply"

Since the thread and myself have been acused to death of reformism by the maoists and have not provided evidence of what makes the MAS-Arce different and rightward from MAS-Evo lets have other perspective

Gentlemen and hopefully ladies, the Trot perspective
https://www.laizquierdadiario.com.bo/Como-entender-el-triunfo-del-capitan-Lara-y-el-PDC
<Elections in Bolivia. How to understand the victory of Captain Lara and the PDC?

The MAS's setback expressed a popular rejection that was capitalized on by the right, which presented itself as a renewed figure in the figure of former police captain Edman Lara, who, although running as vice-presidential candidate for Rodrigo Paz's PDC, was the real winner of the day.
The initial data from the Preliminary Electoral Results System (SIREPRE) confirmed what was already evident during the campaign: the Movement Toward Socialism suffered a historic setback, disappearing from the Senate and with very few seats in the Lower House. So much so that the former Minister of Government and presidential candidate for the MAS, Eduardo Del Castillo, downplayed the defeat on the grounds that they were able to "save" the party. The drop in their electoral support was capitalized on by a very high number of spoiled and blank votes (21%) and the Paz-Lara ticket.
Cement and Burger King entrepreneur Samuel Doria Medina, who appeared to be the favorite in most polls, was eliminated from the race and rushed to support Rodrigo Paz heading into the runoff, seeking to unite his forces against Tuto Quiroga. This reenacts the logic of the "lesser evil," but from the right, pushing broad sectors to support a less worn-out face of the old regime, as represented by Paz and Lara.
Rodrigo Paz Pereira is the son of former President Jaime Paz Zamora (MIR). He was a deputy for the MIR (Mother and Child) party (2002-05), then for Tuto Quiroga's Podemos (Podemos) party (2006-10), mayor of the city of Tarija (MIR-FRI, UNIR), and senator for the Citizen Community party. His past as a member of the neoliberal movement is complemented by the figure of Oscar Eid, a longtime political operative for the MIR party, who now serves as his campaign advisor. With this record, Paz was careful to conceal his involvement in the old neoliberal parties, avoided mentioning austerity measures, promised increases in dignified income and pensions, and even had progressive sparks when he announced his willingness to legalize marijuana for medicinal purposes. Above all, however, he ran a grassroots campaign, traveling to communities in the highlands, establishing direct and somewhat organic ties. Unlike Lara, who defeated the mainstream media through TikTok, he avoided using social media as much as possible, prioritizing direct contact.
For his part, Edman Lara's profile as a former police captain, dismissed for denouncing and confronting corruption among high-ranking officials, won sympathy among segments of the population, garnering support from communities and popular sectors. Last-minute statements by Evo Morales even contributed to this result, suggesting that supporters who were unconvinced to vote null, instead suggesting that they should vote for the former captain.
Lara's surprise is not only due to the fact that she contradicted all the polls, but also because the results show not only a rejection of the MAS but also a rejection of the old figures of the neoliberal cycle. Vast sectors of the population opted for a new figure who promised to end the corruption that is interpreted as the main cause of the country's crisis.
These factors explain the surprising rise of Paz and Lara, and which have led Paz to be accused from various right-wing angles of being close to Evo Morales and the MAS. However, they will also be an element that will condition, at least initially, any austerity measures they intend to implement, but will allow the new government to buy itself a few months of time and patience. In other words, the vote won by the PDC is not a blank check, nor is it a hopeful endorsement; it is more like a safety valve that preserves some of what has been achieved.
The Paz-Lara duo won in five departments of the country: La Paz, Oruro, Potosí, Cochabamba, and Chuquisaca. Tuto Quiroga won in Santa Cruz and Pando, while Doria Medina was relegated to Beni and Tarija. The electoral geography reproduces the fractures between west and east, highlighting how a large part of the MAS's historical electorate, concentrated in the west, turned to the PDC, while Tuto Quiroga and Doria Medina were concentrated in the east of the country. These results reveal that the social and political divide that was expressed geographically two decades ago continues today with other colors.
But this result has also highlighted the political operation that was mounted based on the role of the mainstream media and pre-election polls. It is clear that an attempt was made to construct the figures of Doria Medina and Tuto Quiroga as part of a political operation, seeking to tilt the electoral results even further to the right. A few weeks ago, an audio recording was leaked in which businessman Marcelo Claure and Doria Medina's political operatives discussed the purchase of media outlets, an audio recording that, incidentally, was downplayed by the mainstream press.
Finally, after the trend of the PDC's victory consolidated and Doria Medina acknowledged his defeat by endorsing Paz, in the same way as Morales's statements regarding the runoff, rumors of Quiroga withdrawing from the electoral race began to increase. With these results, the specter of spoiled votes and the old MAS becomes the space to conquer, a space that in these early stages is likely to lean toward this formula. The coming weeks will be decisive not only in confirming or rejecting the runoff, but above all because various analysts already consider the Paz-Lara duo to be the next government.

<Weak Government and Fragmented Parliament
The new government will be a weak one, hampered by a steadily developing economic crisis and social unrest that threatens to grow, fueled not only by rising food prices and shortages of fuel and basic necessities, but also by the profound lack of legitimacy of state institutions.
The results show that no force will have a solid parliamentary majority. The next Congress will be marked by unstable agreements, with weakened blocs and no figures with popular support. At least four right-wing blocs (PDC, LIBRE, Unidad, and APB-SUMATE) could control the ALP with two-thirds of its members, accompanied by a reduced caucus of Andrónico Rodríguez's Popular Alliance. The final composition of the ALP will not be confirmed until August 31, as announced by the TSE (Spanish Supreme Electoral Tribunal), but it is already clear that the new government will be forced to seek consensus and agreements to address not only the economic crisis but also the institutional and constitutional reforms they seek to implement. The resurgence of the mechanisms of the so-called "pacted democracy" of the 1990s seems inevitable.

<Competing Right-wing Parties
Paz promises a friendly "modern capitalism" mediated by the popular figure of Lara, who will attempt to rebuild the lost legitimacy of state institutions based on anti-corruption rhetoric. During the campaign, he proposed a Dignity Income of 2,000 Bs, as well as a monthly bonus of 1,000 Bs for those with a pension under 3,000 Bs. These campaign promises, which surely influenced the election result, will allow him to gain a couple of months of "social peace," which, however, could quickly evaporate if not fulfilled. Quiroga, on the other hand, offers the classic neoliberal recipe. Both guarantee fiscal adjustment, increased external debt, and openness to foreign investors. However, they do so by betting on diverse geopolitical positions. While Quiroga seeks a clear and direct alignment with the US, which is wary of trade with China and the BRICS, Paz and Lara have a more cautious and pragmatic position, seeking to build balance without distancing themselves from anyone. This position facilitates dialogue with business sectors such as agribusiness and mining, which are already trading partners of China and the BRICS and are unwilling to lose markets for ideological reasons.

<What is the significance of the spoiled and blank vote?
The undemocratic nature of the entire electoral process encouraged Evo Morales to call for a spoiled vote last Sunday. He did so in response to the electoral ban that his former colleagues from the MAS managed to impose on him. The spoiled vote, which usually hovered around 5 or 6%, this time combined with the blank vote, exceeded 21%, reflecting the enormous rejection of the electoral process as a whole.
Although the spoiled and blank vote cannot be considered a homogeneous political expression, the truth is that without Morales's support, this spoiled vote would not have reached the levels it had, making it the second largest force after the PDC. The significant weight of the spoiled vote prevented the elections from serving to re-legitimize the worn-out "democratic" institutions and, on the contrary, highlights the undemocratic nature of Morales's ban and the profound divorce between the entire state apparatus and so-called civil society.
The former president's call for a spoiled vote has been viewed with disbelief, at the very least, by sectors of the MAS. While this spoiled vote ultimately settled the internal dispute within the MAS, granting Morales victory, it also facilitated the right-wing advance. The truth is that this result underscored that neither Arce nor Andrónico had the strength to displace Morales, who, despite not being a candidate, remains a major political force and should not be underestimated.
If the coup d'état closed the political cycle of the MAS, opening a period of transition that is still undefined, we can say that last Sunday's elections confirm this change of cycle, not only because of the virtual disappearance of the MAS in the state, but also because of a scenario that is more right-wing, albeit in a very precarious and unstable manner.
If the coup d'état closed the political cycle of the MAS, opening a period of transition that is still undefined, we can say that last Sunday's elections confirm this change of cycle, not only because of the virtual disappearance of the MAS in the state, but also because of a scenario that is more right-wing, albeit in a very precarious and unstable manner.
If the coup d'état closed the political cycle of the MAS, opening a period of transition that is still undefined, we can say that last Sunday's elections confirm this change of cycle, not only because of the virtual disappearance of the MAS in the state, but also because of a scenario that is more right-wing, albeit in a very precarious and unstable manner.
If the coup d'état closed the political cycle of the MAS, opening a period of transition that is still undefined, we can say that last Sunday's elections confirm this change of cycle, not only because of the virtual disappearance of the MAS in the state, but also because of a scenario that is more right-wing, albeit in a very precarious and unstable manner.

<For an independent, socialist and revolutionary alternative
The dispute between Paz and Quiroga does not reflect a new progressive cycle, as some misguided members of the MAS are trying to recreate, relying on the growing criticism of the Paz-Lara duo as "MASistas" from the far right, but rather the decline of a political regime that can no longer offer solutions for the working and popular majority.Given this situation, it is imperative to build a revolutionary alternative for the workers, a Revolutionary Workers' Party (PTR) that articulates the strength of workers, social movements, and youth against the right and against the failure of the MAS's "progressivism." A profound assessment of the past two decades is necessary, especially of the political responsibilities for the way in which a political cycle that began with major national uprisings, beginning with the Water War in April 2000 and culminating in the coup d'état of November 2019, has ended.Only by extracting the revolutionary lessons from this political cycle, which was full of diverse experiences—from national uprisings to right-wing coups and sparks of civil war to referendums and electoral processes, diversions, and cowardly capitulations—which leave countless lessons for the younger generations of workers and students to learn and prepare the tools to lead our class and the oppressed to victory. Only in this way can a perspective of real emancipation open up: a government of workers, women, diverse groups, and oppressed peoples, fighting for a truly socialist future built on our own forms of organization.

>>2529949
First
<Idpol
Second
It is a gas province. Their bourg is hooked to gas to the veins. The goverment has not been favourable to the interests of gas exploitation ("do the greenface :DDD") so their political support was put in other places.

>>2532454
>aaaand that's why you need to build the workers party!
i hate how i know how every trot article will end and that it is always the same, no matter the party, no matter the country.

Also, Evo in >>2527822 this interview does not deny that he was in a relationship with a m1n0r, if you listen or put some subtitles he says "where there is no victim, there is no crime" textually. (6:05)
So fuck you

>>2532477
They're not wrong.