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/leftypol/ - Leftist Politically Incorrect

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I hate the “Western Civilization” narrative that conservatives and even many liberals persuade
Here are some gripes I have with it in no particular order:
#1 Why is Israel in the west even though it doesn’t touch any other “Western” countries?
#2 If Israel is in the West then how is this not just a euphemism for white supremacy?
#3 How is Russia not a part of western civilization?
#4 If this was real then why would communism be a threat to western civilization if it was made in the west?
#5 Why are “Western values” so good if the only reason the west was successful is because of colonialist violence?

> #3 How is Russia not a part of western civilization?
it's not. Russia is too good for that.

Kotkin would say it's about institutions
Really, it's just about us vs them.
A friend/enemy distinction pushed by the ruling elites of the west.

Israel was conceived as a beacon of "western values" against barbaric palestinians. It's a western vassal to control the middle east. And Russia has been seen pretty much the same way, not western but asiatic hordes that have to be civilized by the western powers.

>>2530047
I mean, its just the US empire and its favorite (aka most rich and powerful) vassals
also south africa isnt in the west since the end of apartheid

Russian chauvinists have been trying to push the narrative that they have an authentic and separate civilization by making a little pathetic pile of the rubble the soviet union left behind although they fully embraced the west. It's all a lie or "eurasianist" schizophrenia of course.

The idea of "The West" despite the terminology has more to do with political alignment and diplomacy and historical happenstance than geography or ideology. Europe has been at war with itself and the world throughout its history with constantly shifting allegiances and different hegemonies coming and going over the centuries. Russia aligned itself with Western European culture all the way back in the era of Peter the Great, aligning itself with the German Empire, then switching sides to ally with Britain and France during WW1 and WW2, after which point Germany, the bridge between Eastern and Western Europe was destroyed and fractured with the Iron Curtain emerging in its place, and Russia turned its back on Western Europe and stopped being part of "The West" forever. But it's quite arbitrary, this is just geopolitics we're talking about.

>>2530384
this is true
western civilization is chiefly christian values, the orthodox christian byzantine empire is a western culture
"eurasianism" itself as an organized philosophical movement started among russian intellectuals that fled the country after the october revolution

the great soviet encyclopedia defined "geopolitics" as such:
>A bourgeois, reactionary concept that uses distorted interpretations of physical and economic geography to justify and promote the aggressive policies of imperialist states. Geopolitics's core ideas are the assertion of the decisive role of physical and geographical conditions in the life of human society and the inequality of races (see Racism). The theories of Social Darwinism (see Social Darwinism) and Malthusianism (see Malthusianism) are also used. Geopoliticians make extensive use of the concepts of "living space," "natural boundaries," and geographic location to justify militarism and wars of conquest.

>The concept of geopolitics arose during the period of imperialism. The first representatives of geopolitics were the Swedish political scientist and pan-Germanist R. Kjellén, who proposed the term "geopolitics" during the First World War (1914-1918) (as a doctrine of the state - a geographical and biological organism striving for expansion), the German geographer F. Ratzel, the English geographer H. Mackinder, the American admiral A. T. Mahan. In the period between the two world wars, geopolitics was intensively cultivated in Germany. Geopolitics became the official doctrine of German fascism. The head of the German geopoliticians was General K. Haushofer, the founder and editor (in 1924-44) of the journal "Zeitschrift für Geopolitik", which promoted the ideas of revanchism and aggression; K. Haushofer was closely connected with the leadership of the fascist party. In the United States in the 1940s. Geopolitics' ideas were developed by N. Speakman and other geographers and sociologists.


>After World War II (1939–45), geopolitics began to revive in the United States, West Germany, and other imperialist states to justify the militarization of their countries, aggressive policies, and ideas of revanchism directed against socialist countries and national liberation movements. In West Germany, the journal "Zeitschrift für Geopolitik" was republished in 1951; the "Union of Geopolitics" was revived. Contemporary geopoliticians attempt to explain the contrast between socialist and capitalist countries by geographic factors.


<https://gufo.me/dict/bse/%D0%93%D0%B5%D0%BE%D0%BF%D0%BE%D0%BB%D0%B8%D1%82%D0%B8%D0%BA%D0%B0

the west = roman law, Greek philosophy, christan religion

>>2530047
>#1 Why is Israel in the west even though it doesn’t touch any other “Western” countries?
i mean isn't this one pretty obvious? it's just a western colony

Its all spooks. There has been a push amongst the alt-right to make China western because its succesful and communism was made by two Germans, for example Keith Woods, Fuentes and pebbletoss push that idea.

The propaganda comes after the fact, succesful = Western, then comes the brainworms of the Faustian spirit and other spooks and you've got a tool that ignores material reality and instead thinks that people are born succesful, which then also encompasses capitalists, who are coincidentally also rich because they were born intelligent & succesful.

Its a recycle of the old, 'annointed by god' feudal mindworm.

>>2530047
The idea of a “Western” Civilization is a Cold War era Psyop to make Western Europeans feel good about the U$ replacing them as the dominant Imperialist-Capitalist Superpower after World War II and placing all of their Nations under permanent U$ occupation with a network of quisling Puppet States in the Anti-Communist NATO alliance against the Eastern Bloc, with this allowing the Eurocucks to feel like they still mattered because at least the U$ still was part of the “West”, with this arrangement continuing while the USSR was taken over by the Khrushchevite Social Fascist/Social Imperialist Revisionist Clique, which culminated in the Gorbachev Capitalist Perestroika/Glasnost “reforms” and the phony 1991 “Project Hammer” Coup attempt which officially dissolved the USSR and put the drunkard degenerate Yelstin in power, who chose as his successor the KGB/CIA/Mossad double agent traitor Putin, who staged the FSB/CIA False Flag 1999 Moscow Apartment Bombing which acted as the casus belli for the Genocidal Russian Imperialist Invasion of Chechnya (just like the CIA/Mossad False Flag 9/11 attacks was both the casus belli for the Genocidal U$ Imperialist Invasions of Afghanistan and Iraq, along with the final conclusion of “Project Hammer”, and the Mossad False Flag October 7th attack was the casus belli for the Zionist Genocida of Gaza), with Putin’s Russia serving as a convenient bogeymen to keep the EuroCucks under U$ occupation after the USSR was destroyed, so they can lose whatever is left of their sovereignty through NATO and the fake “European Union” designed to destroy all the Nations of Europe with a fake “European” National Identity (the absurdity of the concept of a single “European” National Identity is elucidated in the Video of the changing Ethnic Map of Europe over the past 2000 years that I posted, which shows that Europe is populated by dozens of Nations/Ethnic groups, divided into several large Ethno-Linguistic groups, most notably the Germanic peoples, Slavic Peoples, Romance Peoples, etc. all of which have been Migrating/Invading, Mixing, Assimilating, and Genociding each other for thousands of years), which will pave the way for them all being fully Americanized into “White” Racist Redneck Evangelical Protestant Euromutts with a massive impoverished underclass of Non-European migrants (mostly Arab Muslims fleeing Genocidal U$ Imperialist /Zionist Wars and Black Africans fleeing Neocolonial Imperialist Poverty/Exploitation/Starvation) who will be brutally exploited by U$/“European” Capitalists and used as a Scapegoat to transform Europe into a Islamophobic Zionist Christian Nationalist Fascist Shithole, which will eventually include Russia as well once their Bogeyman role is no longer needed, and whether the absorption of Russia into this fully Americanized “Europe” which are all officially U$ States, is a peaceful integration or the result of a violent Civil War/Collapse in Russia after Putin’s death is hard to predict, but it is worth noting that all Russian “Nukes” were dismantled during the Nunn-Luger program, so their is absolutely nothing stopping an eventual violent absorption of Russia, though I believe the “Russian” Oligarchs will make sure that the absorption is mostly Peaceful, in order to preserve their ill-gotten fiefdom, 😂🤣🤢🤮!


A half assed case of Geopolitical “Civilizational” Woo Woo that is just as dumb as both the idea of the “West” and a united “European” identity that both EU Liberal losers and Fascist freaks love so much, is that of a united Islamic “Ummah” that Islamist retards embrace (never mind that the U$ and the Zionist State have promoted both Sunni and Shia Islamists to destroy secular Arab Nationalist Baathism, with the Reactionary Iranian Theocracy put in power by the U$ and the Zionist State in the phony Anti-Communist 1979 “Revolution” and armed by both during Iran-Contra in order to destroy Baathist Iraq during the Iran-Iraq War, prevent the National Liberation of Arabistan, Kurdistan, South Azerbaijan, and Balochistan, prevent the creation of a Socialist State in Iran, and divide the Arab Nation on Sunni-Shia lines in order to secure Us/Zionist hegemony in the region, with the entire “Axis of Resistance”, including Iran, Hezbollah, and Hamas, being Controlled Opposition to the Zionist State whose sole role is to justify the Zionist Genocide of Palestine, as proven by the October 7th False Flag attack that was coordinated between Mossad and Hamas to provide a Casus Belli for the Zionist Genocide of Gaza, 😂🤣🤢🤮!), while the only half assed case of Geopolitical “Civilizational” Woo Woo that is even dumber then all of the preceding ideas combined is the concept of “Eurasianism” parroted by Russian Reactionary Fascists like Dugin in his “4th Political Theory”, one of the most Schizophrenic works of Political “Theory” ever written which perfectly the encapsulates the Pathetic Intellectual bankruptcy of Post-Soviet Capitalist Russia, with the idea that Eurasia has any kind of common cultural identity being extremely absurd given the extreme Ethnic, Racial, Linguistic, and Religious diversity that exists in that Supercontinent, and even the narrow version of “Eurasianism” that seeks to claim that Slavic Russians have something in common with Central Asian Turks, is equally absurd considering that Russians and Turks have been fighting each other for as long as the two groups have interacted, 😂🤣🤢🤮!

>>2530751
In conclusion, the only hope for the Workers and Oppressed Nations of the World, is that the inevitable World War III between the U$ and China will escalate into a Global Nuclear War that will destroy the entire Global Capitalist-Imperialist System, thus allowing for a World Maoist PPW to create a Global USSR (The SSRs and SFSRs of the future Global USSR are shown in the first Map I posted, the second Map specifically shows the SSRs and SFSRs of the future Global USSR in West Asia, while the third Image I posted shows the version of the Two-State Solution to the Zionist-Palestinian Conflict implemented in the future Global USSR with the Zionist State overthrown by a Maoist PPW and replaced by a Jewish SSR created inside the 1967 borders with 1:1 Land swaps that are very similar to the two Maps in the third Image I posted, while the West Bank and Gaza are placed in the Arab SFSR that will include all the Arab majority regions of West Asia and North Africa as shown in both my Map of the SSRs and SFSRs of the future Global USSR in the first Image I posted and the second Image I posted that specifically shows the SSRs and SFSRs of the future Global USSR in West Asia, and the 1:1 Land swaps between the Jewish SSR and Arab SFSR will mean that Arab villages in the “Triangle” region https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Triangle_(Israel) on the Jewish side of the 1967 borders will be exchanged for Jewish Settlements on the Arab side of the 1967 borders that are inside the “Seam Zone” https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Seam_Zone , so most Arabs and Jews that are in the “population transfer”, will not have to leave their homes, ✊😜🇨🇳🇰🇵🇨🇺🇵🇸🏳️‍🌈🏳️‍⚧️🚀☢️!) that will place the Workers and Oppressed Nations of the World on the Shining Path to Communism, ✊😜🇨🇳🇰🇵🇨🇺🇵🇸🏳️‍🌈🏳️‍⚧️🚀☢️!

>>2530047
The west is real. All imperialist countries have been pushed to ally with each other and become United States vassals during the Cold War and afterwards, that is an objective fact. This is how most people use it in everyday life, they don't mean Romania or Poland.
Sure, it does get mixed up with cultural and "civilizational" bullshit, but that's just how things go in bourgeois science and society. The same goes for "first world", but that term is becoming obsolete in real time as a socialist country comes ahead in terms of industrial production and quality of life, so the west it is.
>>2530384
"Eurasianism" is bourgeois coping with the fact that they live in a Bolshevik country built on Bolshevik principles and ideology. Russia itself is entirely Bolshevik in origin, no retarded white nationalist asked for a Russian federative republic or had any input in its creation, unlike in Ukraine. That makes it much better against the wishes of those who control it.
To answer the questions in OP:
1,2: Israel is imperialist so it's western
3: Because it stopped being imperialist in 1917 and never became imperialist afterwards despite what the rulers wanted
4: Because communism is a threat to imperialism
5: Because look at all that sweet GDP

>>2530047
>Why is Israel in the west even though it doesn’t touch any other “Western” countries?
No-one thinks it is, zionist just say so because they want oeople to defend jewish supremacy

>>2530047
>If Israel is in the West then how is this not just a euphemism for white supremacy?

Zionist aren't white supremacust, they're jewish supremacist. Don't pussy out of describing what they actually are. By calling them white supremacist your pushing responsibility away from them onto other people.

>>2530801
Many of the most rabid and unapologetic ultra-Zionists running the show are conservative Jews of Middle Eastern descent anyway. The Ashkenazi labor Zionist leadership were no less rotten but generally promoted things that were in line with Israel as an ethnonationalist but relatively secular Western country.

Most of the shitlibs who say this are either uninformed or too spooked by ww2 to acknowledge Jewish power. I haven't seen as many of them nowadays though, people seem to have just moved on to Fuentes esc Protocols nonsense and Israel really being responsible for American crimes (having a well funded ethnic lobby and lying a lot =/= controlling the world and being responsible for everything bad under capitalism)

>>2530820
The lobby also gives it's members moneyvia the US and Israeli government, it's how Adeldson became a billionaire and the largest donor to the Republican party. Tge US gave Israel money that they used to make Adelson a casino billionaire. There are several cases like this. It's probably how Bloomberg became a billionaire by selling stock market interface that ended up more or less a monopoly on wall street

>>2530047
lmao that map is so funny, but there are actual retards on south america who talk about "western civilization" n shit.

>>2530047
it's the concept of civilisations as a large scale thing that is wrong in general, as border states are culturally closer to other border states then the rest of the civilisations, a country like Spain has a lot more in common with Mexico then it does with Finland for exemple, or Greece and Turkey have a lot more in common then their respective civilisations, cultures just aren't that neatly fit into little blocks, especially if you look from a historical standpoint, I mean in the early middle ages, Francia had a lot more in common with the Caliphates then with Scandinavian vikings.
>>2531528
In latin speaking countries Latin America tend to be associated with the West

>>2531530
ask a yanqui or euorpean if latin america is part of the west, you will get a no

>>2530751
Would any of my fellow Comrades like to give an Intellectual critique of my In-Depth Dialectical Materialist Analysis of the inherent absurdity of the concept of “Western Civilization”, and other half assed cases of Geopolitical “Civilizational” Woo Woo such as a United “European” identity, an “Islamic Ummah”, and “Eurasianism”, and what do you think of the Video of the changing Ethnic Map of Europe over the past 2000 years that I posted in order to prove how absurd it is to claim that their is a common “European” identity that supersedes the dozens of Nations/Ethnic groups in Europe, 🤔?

>>2531534
Ask a spaniard or a Frenchman if they are, and you'll get a yes
Litterally, the term Latin America was invented by Napoleon III to claim a brotherhood between latin america and latin speaking european countries

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>>2530047
Since when was Hatay considered the West? News to me!

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>>2530778
>Russia itself is entirely Bolshevik in origin

>>2531563
Haven't read it but I'm assuming it is based

>>2532765
It's always absurd when they try to claim that Russia's government functions that way because of Mongol influence, already because it simplies very different government forms The empire was different from the Soviet union and both are different from the currently ruling oligarchy, but also Russia's governments were very clearly inspired by western ones, Russia's absolutism comes from French influence.

>>2530047
>how is this not just a euphemism for white supremacy
hmmm

>>2530820
>Many of the most rabid and unapologetic ultra-Zionists running the show are
white anglo saxon protestants

>>2531565
Im a frenchman and I would say no without even thinking about it, literally nobody I know would say latam are part of the west

>>2533057
Really ? I remember as kid I was taught of south and North america as one continent, and that Russia and Latin America were parts of one "Judeo-Christian" civilisation, I went to a public school. Generally I feel like French people feel closer to Latin America then they do Eastern Europe in general, and I never see the anti-latino racism that you see in the US for exemple.

>>2533068
>I remember as kid I was taught of south and North america as one continent, and that Russia and Latin America were parts of one "Judeo-Christian" civilisation
uygha, what school you went to, the Albert Speer remembrance college?

>>2533068
<school teaching about '"Judeo-Christian" civilisation'
lmao, i don't believe you.

>>2533124
Nah, ghetto school, I was one of the only white kid, but I think this was a department thing rather then a school thing, (I mean they did also teach us about Islam) But I live in the crazy right wing area of the country.

>>2530524
>>2530593
I'm gonna be real with y'all, Greece is culturally not as western as a lot of people think it is and it really shows just how arbitrary the whole idea of "west" and "east" is. Genuinely, a lot of Greek culture has and has historically had a shit ton of overlap with that of the Middle East right down to the point that a lot of Greek people have similar food, music, and even manneurisms to people in places like Turkey (not a shock for obvious reasons), Lebanon, and Egypt.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8goAOiz7Zvs

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n-BKe_EsHg0&list=RDn-BKe_EsHg0&start_radio=1

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dri3DubX5KE&list=RDDri3DubX5KE&start_radio=1

And that's not even mentioning that the reason we have classiscal Plato and Aristotle too was because Arab scholars in the Middle Ages were huge Greekaboos who realized that it was a good idea to start translating shit into Arabic.

Genuinely, I wish people outside of Greece realized this because the version of Greek culture here in places like the US is so distorted that people do not understand it at all and that's honestly sad. It also doesn't help that when the British supported the Greek war of independence that a lot of the native Greek culture was basically discarded as "Ottoman corruption" even though it was there well before the Ottoman empire.

Angloids genuinely ruin everything they touch.

>>2535782
Also, while I'm ranting the fact that Latin America is not considered western despite the fact that it very evidently has a huge European influence shows that the whole idea of "east" and "west" is arbitrary. I guess if you're poor and have one too many native/black ancestors you get yeeted out of the "west" despite being more Catholic then most of western Europe is.

"West" and "east" is genuinely a fucking retarded concept.

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>>2535782
>a lot of the native Greek culture was basically discarded as "Ottoman corruption" even though it was there well before the Ottoman empire.
>>2535790
>I guess if you're poor and have one too many native/black ancestors you get yeeted out of the "west" despite
>>2530047
>how is this not just a euphemism for white supremacy?


>>2530524
>the orthodox christian byzantine empire is a western culture
Isn't Byzantine empire the east? As opposed to the latin west and catholic church

>>2535796

Addendum.

>>2535782
Greece is an observer state of the Arab league.

>>2530047
Read the west as "imperial core" and you will get why there are some discrepancies
it meant "white civilization" before and they are trying to make it mean that again

Why isnt latin america considered part of the west? and being mixed race doesn't even disqualify it if the USA is the westest

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"the west" is code for "countries that exploited others & didn't get properly punished for it after WW2"
literally the bourgeois on an international level
the axis were rightfully crushed, but the allies get to act like they've done no wrong

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>>2537306
>properly punished for it
spooky
either you take the bag from the ruling class or you don't
there is no "proper" "punishment"

>>2537335
Amoral scum like you, Marx, and any of his acolytes will be an obstacle

>>2537335
the only people that could've truly punished them at the time were the anarchists, but marxists kept on getting in the way
we'd have some anarcho-communist strongholds today, if marxist socialists hadn't been so obsessed with needing a state back then


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