Starting this thread and hopefully it stays a general. There's no thread dedicated to the EVROPA and what happens here.
everal European countries are currently reevaluating their military conscription policies, with some, like Croatia, having recently decided to reinstate it. Regarding pension reforms, the debate is also active, with France serving as a prominent example where a recent reform is facing political opposition and proposed suspension.
>Croatia.
Parliament voted in October 2025 to bring back a 2-month compulsory service starting in 2026.
>Germany
The government is moving toward a "new military service" model starting with a mandatory digital questionnaire for young men from 2027, with the potential for mandatory conscription if needed.
>Denmark
Expanding to include women from July 2025. Service is selected via a lottery system from the pool of eligible 18-year-olds.
>Latvia
Reintroduced in 2023. All men between 18 and 27 must serve for 11 months.
Concurrently, pension reform is trying to be pushed in Belgium, France, Bosnia and Slovenia (that I know of). All want to raise the retirement age and lower pensions low term.
Serbia has a rebellion going on for almost a year.
Is there anything else happening?
>>2535127friendly tip, if you want a thread to stay as a general, keep an eye on it and bump it with some news articles or something when it starts to slide out of view.
They will do anything except turn to China of use leverage against the US
>>2535127> 2-month compulsory service starting in 2026.Thats barely nothing. You learn to shoot weapons but thats it.
>>2535129I don't follow Euronews that much (except my country) and I don't mind posting an article or two sometimes but I don't want this to become /my country general/ so I'm hoping we all can contribute from news from our respective countries :)
>>2535133China and EU have relatively good relations outside of Ukraine situation.
>>2535136My TV is usually on France24 (state owned news) so I know better what happens in core nations of EU.
>>2535143I could totally go for some Frenchie news right now.
>>2535127>Is there anything else happening?Just remembered! EU intervened in elections in Romania AND Moldova to stop the "pro-Russian" candidate winning.
>>2535149Ok and? Why would I simp for capitalist Russia?
>>2535136Thanks from Austria. Currently nothing major happening other than a rabid pro-Nato and transatlantic party being in power in a coalition. They are literally called Neos. Fuck, I just hate those motherfuckers like you wouldn't believe.
>>2535156Don't try to derail the thread. It's not about support or not to Russia, it's the fact EU imperialists are openly meddling in sovereign country's (bourgeois) elections.
>>2535127https://www.politico.eu/article/welfare-finance-nato-boss-european-parliament-mark-rutte-secretary-general-gdp-defense/All over Europe as commanded by Washington the bourgeoisie are shifting what remains of the social welfare funds to re-armament in preparation for another imperialist war, WW3 is getting closer and anyone who denies it is a fool. The media is of course directing the fault in worsening living standards to immigrants to stoke racial hatred and provide distractions, it's not going to be long before fascists once again rule in Germany, but this time they'll have company in UK, Italy, France and of course the US. The neo-liberal consensus is crumbling, everything under heaven is in chaos, the situation is excellent.
>>2535166Yurop is fucked either way and honestly. Good.
Is chat control still happening?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Targeted_Poverty_Alleviation>According to Liu Yongfu, director of the State Council Leading Group Office of Poverty Alleviation and Development, nearly 100 million people were recognized by the Chinese government as poor people. But from 2012 to 2016, more than half of the population living under the poverty line has been lifted out of poverty. An average of 1.3 million poor people cleared the poverty line per year during the five-year periodWhy doesn't Europe do this?
>>2535211Delayed apparently (who knows for how long)
>>2535217btw 20% of Europe's pop is around 100 million
>>2535143>>2535147Same, the native-language european generals are too opaque to follow (am from nordic country, mainly use english)
One thing I've been wondering is what the deal is with Le France Insoumise and Melenchon.
For context, for the ignorant, France is a country where "socialists" are normie centrists and "communists" are a regular party to vote for, both having been present in electoral politics for a good while. LFI seems to be to the left of German and Nordic "left" parties and Melenchon has Trotskyish views (at least in his past).
What confused me though was that when I read some of LFI's proposals and policies. They seem to want a "people's republic" / "people's democracy". From a materialist perspective this makes zero sense and made me do a double take. It should be abundantly clear to any Marxist that France, the western European imperial core century-old bourgeois republic and with a century of social corporatist/welfarist domestic investment is materially
overdeveloped and
more than ready to be turned into a
socialist republic and, considering the national context, electoral base of the party and the fact that for the center/right a "people's democracy" sounds just as scary as a "socialist republic" – it just doesn't make sense for them to advocate this, if not for an implicit admission that they are in fact an anti-revolutionary, not really dangerous force in French politics; signaling to the G7 bourgeoisie. Can a Marxist more familiar with the situation explain what's going on with LFI?
I do love that French labor militancy is so strong regardless of the parliamentary cretinism of the "leaders".
>>2535234 (me)
>centuries* old republic >>2535234They don't want a people's republic, they want a bourgeois republic but with less executive power and more "democracy" while applying keynesian economics and being dirigiste. Imo it's contradictory and doomed to fail because of capitalist pushback if they ever win enough electorally - which is doubtful in media environment totally owned by billionaires. It can be good if they win to set things on fire and slow down the neoliberal reforms though, and LFI is currently kind of the barometer party of class conscious people so I vote for them every election.
Oh also the french section of the IMT is in the LFI somehow.
good idea for a thread
>>2535249I looked into this further and I'm tracing it (apparently misinfo) back to French youtuber Alice Chapelle:
https://inv.nadeko.net/watch?v=r5yQEX6IGNMhttps://youtube.com/watch?v=r5yQEX6IGNM@11:21
>Alice Chapelle:>"melenchon: we want to move from a presidential monarch to a people's democracy"Can't find Melenchon using the phrase "people's democracy" anywhere on the web. Then I downloaded the book she's referencing,
Now the People!, to search for the use of the term there too, to no avail.
But therein I was pleasantly surprised that he still is very much a crypto-Trot, which is at least lightyears better than the other European "labor leaders" (Corbyn et. al.). Melenchon spends several pages of the book going into scientific detail in regards to recent insurrections and small R revolutions and describes to his base how to prepare for / replicate / organize it for the future. Though I do disagree with his line / framing and particular stances on a number of things I think it would be wise for other French competing revolutionary parties to at least collaborate on united front basis until the point in time where he may suffer menshevik brainworms where they can take over from within this popular movement already mobilized, militant and prepared.
Are you guys ready for the 'Trade Bazooka
>'Europe cannot do things the same way anymore. We learned this lesson painfully with energy; we will not repeat it with critical materials'
>Speaking at a conference in Berlin, von der Leyen warned that the trade rifts between China and the US were hitting EU industries hard.
>Von der Leyen also stepped up the rhetoric, comparing China’s control of rare-earths to Europe’s previous dependence on Russian fossil fuels, exposed when Moscow invaded Ukraine in 2022.
>This includes the so-called “trade bazooka”, officially known as the Anti-Coercion Instrument (ACI) and the EU’s most powerful trade weapon.
>The ACI can cause widespread economic damage if deployed. Imposing investment restrictions, withdrawing intellectual property protections, suspending individual companies’ licences, banning access to EU public procurement markets, and sanctions targeting specific individuals, are all possible under the instrument. And, it can be used against both goods and services.
Unpopular opinion but I like european union
>>2536177Von der Leyen won't do shit, just saber rattling
>>2536241All communists should oppose the EU and not participate in EU elections
>>2536177I hate this bitch
>stepped up the rhetoricThis captures very well how they only know to talk and to write increasingly heated letters
>>2536241Why?
>>2536177Why is China attacking its last trade partner like this?
>>2536241I hate when lefties oppose European integration on grounds that EU is a neoliberal institution. As opposed to what, your national government? Whats their politics like?
millennial eurobros, are you ready for all the zoomette poontang once male zoomers all get slaughtered in stalingrad bakhmut 2.0?
>>2537016There is no "european integration" in the EU, it's strong members subjugate the weak and enforce neoliberal austerity and covet access to cheap labor power from eastern europe and raw materials such as minerals. Internationalism based on solidarity between peoples and nations is good, imperialism is not and the EU is an omperial institution that has replaced the european empires of old that have become obsolete in the era of neo-colonialism.
>it is strong members
>>2537025>There is no "european integration" in the EUWhat do you mean by that? Like obviously there is a degree of economic and institutional integration.
>>2537034I mean that that integration is imperial, in the same vein that the British empire would integrate separate colonial holdings under the same legal and economic structures. That sort of imperial integration is subjugation in nature and not desirable. Say a communist party somehow gained pwer in an EU member state, would they be able to implement communist policy in their country? No. EU law is above national law and the EU would relentlessly attack and sanction any such country.
>>2537045 (me)
In addition here's a good summary why communists should oppose the EU
>>2535234>>2536076>the fact that for the center/right a "people's democracy" sounds just as scary as a "socialist republic"No, I'm sorry but this is wrong. "Socialist republic" sounds like "I'm gonna pay more taxes" in the mind of the average boomer, while "people's democracy" sounds like "my vote is gonna make a difference for once".
You have to take into account the context: in France, we all learn that the 1789 revolution was great because it created modern democracy to replace the supreme power of absolute monarchy. The Parti Socialiste are ones who started neoliberal reforms in the 1980s under Mitterrand (tournant de la rigueur). The Yellow Vests movement was also kinda "apolitical" – both people who vote for the far-left and the far-right participated in it, and it was rather similar to the current protests in Serbia – and the demand they managed to formulate beyond expressing some vague discontent was to create a democratic mechanism called the RIC, which would allow citizens to vote more directly on law proposals or to oust a corrupt politician quickly for example.
Therefore it's a good idea for LFI to talk about a "people's democracy" rather than socialism directly, even if we all know LFI is a socialist party.
>Melenchon has Trotskyish views (at least in his past)>he still is very much a crypto-TrotYes, he was a Lambertiste, and he joined the PS specifically to do entryism. I remember an interview of him from a few years ago where he recommended reading Engels' Socialism: Utopian and Scientific.
That said…
>>2535249Frédéric Lordon wrote an article on his Monde Diplomatique blog recently, asking the question "is LFI anti-capitalist?", and technically, no, it isn't. The reforms they propose are basically Keynesian: boosting demand with state intervention into the economy, increasing the minimum wage, nationalizing critical industry sectors, etc.
But I think it's okay, especially right now, when billionaires talk about the Zucman tax (2% on people who own more than 100 million €€€ worth of assets) as if it was literally the return of Stalin on Earth.
>>2535149the "pro-russian"candidate was liked by working class people in Romania and he was a distributist and anti-capitalist.
Unfortunatley he likes the iron guard soo he's a fash……
European Union seeks to end dependency on China for rare earths
>The European Union is working on a strategy to reduce its dependency on Chinese critical raw materials, European Commission Ursula von der Leyen said on Saturday.The renewed strategy comes in a response to China's decision in October to implement tighter restrictions on rare earths exports. The Asian giant had likely done so in response to trade tariffs imposed by US President Donald Trump, but von der Leyen pointed out the impact it would have on Europe.
"If you consider that over 90% of our consumption of rare earth magnets come from imports from China, you see the risks here for Europe and its most strategic industrial sectors," von der Leyen said at a conference in Berlin.
These minerals are key for EU industries, such as the automotive, defence, Greentech and digital sectors.
Von der Leyen said that in the short term, the EU would focus on finding solutions with its Chinese counterparts, but that it would also ramp up its efforts to coordinate with other countries to secure access to alternative sources of the minerals.
"The aim is to secure access to alternative sources of critical raw materials in the short, medium and long term for our European industries," von der Leyen said, "We will speed up work on critical raw materials partnerships with countries like Ukraine and Australia, Canada, Kazakhstan, Uzbekistan, Chile and Greenland".
The European Commission chief said the new scheme, named RESourceEU, takes after REPowerEU, an intiative launched after Russia's invasion of Ukraine with the aim of strengthening the EU's independence in the energy sector, away from Russian energy sources.
"It starts with a circular economy, not for environmental reasons, but to exploit the critical raw materials already contained in products sold in Europe," von der Leyen said
"In addition, we will focus on everything, from joint purchasing to stockpiling. We will boost investment and strategic projects for the production and processing of critical raw materials here in the European Union," she added.
https://www.euronews.com/my-europe/2025/10/25/european-union-seeks-to-end-dependency-on-china-for-rare-earths >>2537067800 billion for weapons but healthcare and pensions are too expensive to fund apparently
>>2537045>would they be able to implement communist policy in their country?No, because you cant build communism in one country. Supranational institutions are necessary.
>the EU would relentlessly attack and sanction any such country.And if such situation arise with independent sovereign capitalist countries, what would their reaction be to a single communist outcast among them?
Like for example in context of USA, no leftist argues for "states rights", because they all understand that is just a tool of smaller bourgeois to exercise more power over local politics, how is it different in Europe? National sovereignty does not benefit me as a citizen, it only benefits national business and political elites.
>>2537052The video spend half the runtime attacking freedom of movement, one of the unambigiously best things EU does.
>>2537073>No, because you cant build communism in one country. Supranational institutions are necessary. Sure but I was referring to intermediate policy and as I said earlier internationalism is good imperialism is not and the EU is an imperial institution and would not allow those intermediate policies
>And if such situation arise with independent sovereign capitalist countries, what would their reaction be to a single communist outcast among them?I'm not opposed to international institutions, the Soviet Union was one in a way but the EU is an imperial institution and can't be reformed, the fact that it would act as capitalist states act reveals it's true nature. You could maybe take some lessons on organization and stuff from it when building a new kind of pan-european internationale but that is not a present concern.
>Like for example in context of USA, no leftist argues for "states rights", because they all understand that is just a tool of smaller bourgeois to exercise more power over local politics, how is it different in Europe? The EU is not a state but a collection of sovereign states, if you try to pursue any kind of socialist policy on the EU it would be stopped by the larger european imperilaist powers due to it's very undemocratic nature. You would need to put your national revolution on pause until most of the large EU countries have flipped to even attempt a reform or EU wide socialist policy and that is extremely stupid.
>National sovereignty does not benefit me as a citizen, it only benefits national business and political elites.>The video spend half the runtime attacking freedom of movement, one of the unambigiously best things EU does.This is a very treatlerite level of argument, just beacuse you can't take yealy vacations in cheap southern european countires doesn't make the EU a wthing worth keeping around. Socialist countries need to control their borders to prevent brain drain and the free movement of labour power and the free movement of capital benefit only larger imperial countries who want to exprt capital to gain access to cheap labour or import cheap labour. People who don't understand imperialism might be taken in the promise of solidarity and cooperation the EU espouses but once you undertand imperialism as defined by Lenin you understand the EU.
>>2537072Sorry kiddo, the age of abundance is over. If you give out free welfare how are you gonna coerce people into signing up to die for Dnieper?
>>2537073>attacking freedom of movement, one of the unambigiously best things EU does.You know its to keep wages down, right?
>>2537079>If you try to pursue any kind of socialist policy on the USA it would be stopped by the larger american states due to its undemocratic nature>>2537079>This is a very treatlerite level of argumentLmao go fuck yourself, rich people from rich countries can travel wherever on their passports. Oh noes, the brain drain, Hungarian companies are loosing on qualified workforce to German ones, clearly this is an important issue to communists, we have to curtain personal freedoms of european citizens to improve profit margins for local bourgeoisee.
>>2537131Wages down where? Like what, should every municipality have its own border control? Should people be tied to a plot of land like medieval serfs, because moving somewhere for work potentially drives wages down in that place?
Shit for brains political positions like these is one of the reasons why socialist parties keep eating shit in central/eastern europe. Utter abandonment of any actual ambition of building communism, replaced with welfarism and nationalism. Worse version of social democrats, and they are shocked that nobody supports them.
>>2537159>>If you try to pursue any kind of socialist policy on the USA it would be stopped by the larger american states due to its undemocratic natureAgain the EU is not a state but an international capitalist association.
>Hungarian companies are loosing on qualified workforce to German ones, clearly this is an important issue to communistsIt is.
>we have to curtain personal freedoms of european citizens to improve profit margins for local bourgeoisee.Insane strawman, there would be no bourgeoisie.
>>2537173>Insane strawman, there would be no bourgeoisie.Oh so we are not taking about real current policies here, but your personal fantasies? Good to know.
>Again the EU is not a state but an international capitalist association.Making it into a proper state is the whole point of European integration.
>>2537178>Oh so we are not taking about real current policies here, but your personal fantasies? Good to know.We were always talking about a hypotethical where a communists would gain control of an EU member. In such a state the bourgeoise would have no political control. Curbing domestic power of the bourgeoisie but then submitting to control by the international bourgeoisie is supreme idiocy.
>Making it into a proper state is the whole point of European integration.Talking about personal fantasies. So instead of an imperial association you want to hand over complete political power to Brussels a la Washingon like the US comparison you love so much. And how is that going in the US?
"Instead of a loose imperial power let's make it a real empire."
Infantile. Read Lenin.
https://www.marxists.org/archive/lenin/works/1916/imp-hsc/ >>2537187>So instead of an imperial association you want to hand over complete political power to BrusselsYeah, that is the idea.
>We were always talking about a hypotethical where a communists would gain control of an EU memberAnd what is going to happen if communists gain power in non-EU member? Lets say Poland leaves EU and some communist party takes over. How are we getting from that to actually establishing communism?
>>2537194>Yeah, that is the idea. Sorry I assumed I was talking to a communist and not liberal.
>How are we getting from that to actually establishing communism?Replace Poland with the Russian empire in 1917 and you have your answer.
>>2537198Anon, have you just woken up from 40 years of coma?
>>2537199The marxist-leninist understanding of revolution and how to carry it out remains the same. It is the most succesful model.
>>2537201First of all, Russia is a lot bigger than Poland. Second, Polish economy is a lot more complex and internationally intertwined than Russian was in 1917. You cannot build communism on such a small scale. You are a marxist-leninist version of those anarchists who think way out of capitalism is coops.
>>2537203Okay then what changes if the EU is a singular state, absolutely nothing.
>But the revolution would be EU wideI can say the same, let a thousands revolutions bloom all over europe. See how the EU is completely irrelevant.
>>2537172>Should people be tied to a plot of land like medieval serfs, because moving somewhere for work potentially drives wages down in that place?<Uhh yes, the only alternative to free movement of labour that benefits capital is to return to feudalismAre you retarded?
>>2537067pattern recognition was a mistake
>>2537500Ok, what is your alternative then, tell me.
>>2537203Mate, the EU is a neoliberal institution which only function it is to keep porky in power even in times of crisis. This is like arguing for the position that the Soviets should have struggled to keep the interim government in power, because that strengthens communists somehow. Equating Nazism with Communism is a EU project after all.
>>2537506>Ok, what is your alternative then, tell meAre you dumb? Do you think im against free movement in general? I already told you that *currently* free movement serves porky more than wage labourers in general.
Btw, what happened to the german thread, did the krauts just fuck off? Feel kinda lonely now
>>2537521Also keeping wages down simply means that wages are currently more depressed than they would be if no free movement of labourers occured. Nowadays it mostly happens by keeping wages below productivity. More subtle.
>>2537521>I already told you that *currently* free movement serves porky more than wage labourers in general.Ok? First of all, how do you measure that, but sure, whatever. But if you are fine with free movement, why is that what you criticise about EU?
>>2535127The clowns at the goverment here have been discussing the idea, but so far it has gone nowhere because there are very few young people left.
And most likely I myself will leave in the next 2 to 3 years.
>>2535217Because our capitalism is at a more advanced stage and the scraps left for the proles are fewer and fewer.
The third world is volkerabfall
>>2536250That should apply to any state, but that's also dumb not to.
Just as an example, Ilaria Salis was arrested in Hungary for punching a Nazi, and currently she's only out of prison because she's also an EU parlament member.
>>2536241>>2537016Anyone who becomes hegemonic over the european peninsula wil ltry to form a union of some kind, with the current historical context, it would be stupid not to. Just look at how the UK got raped the moment it left the current one.
>>2537025My man the neoliberals are also hegemonic over our weaker countries. They're the ones who accepted to enter the current union, and the ones to pick the existing EU bureocracy. Again, look no futher than the UK.
There's also the problem that the same dynamic also exists inside each and every country with more than a few hundred thounsand people.
>>2537045No, that's just wrong lmao.
The EU was willingly joined by the local bourgeois, which still has power over the existing institution. To equivocate the EU with the fucking british empire is pure nonsense lmao.
>>2537058It would be retarded not to.
>>2537131So is migration, but I don't recall anyone here supporting walling up the border
>>2537194>>2537187It's true that if anyone actually communsits gets into power, EU or notm they're gonna get invaded and sanctioned. So in reality, does being or not being in the EU even matter in such case?
EU is historically progressive and must be defended. The EU model must be replicated in Africa and Middle East. Full freedom of movement and full economic integration, along with a single currency, is the best solution to all the wars and strife in these regions.
>>2537510Meh. There's a difference between a state and a nation. The bolsheviks overthrew the state of the nation, but not the nation itself, despite completely remodeling it.
Of course in case of communist victory, the EU wouldn't be the current one; but rather a new organization.
>>2537521Should be sink the boats trying to cross the mediteranean then?
>>2537726I understand what you mean by historically progressive (I suppose), but the current EU cannot be preserved in the same way the current germany, croatia, italy or sweden cannot be preserved.
>>2537733>Should we sink the boats trying to cross the mediteranean then?I wouldn't raise an eyebrow in Minecraft if all the slave trader scum excuse me human trafickers excuse me non-profit activists who operate non-profit refugee carrier vessels would drown in the mediterrean along the porkies who keep demanding cheap human resources tbh
>>2537819There are thousand routes anyway. Currently the immigration situation is a mess.
>>2537200Russia lives rent free in the left half of that graph
>>2537819the human traffickers are barely on the boats if at all you massive spaz.
Why is there no fucking anti-NATO anti-imperialist left-wing national independence movement that gets above 5% or the minimum to enter legislatures in Europe?
>Germany
You have cucked Die Linke pink hair DSA kraut addition thats pro-NATO and a dead in the water BSW.
>France
You have social democratic cucked PCF and France "unbowed" that abandoned anti-NATO and anti-EU positions
>Italy
You don't even have a Communst or left party
>Spain
You have SUMAR opportunists who are in government while supporting austerity and NATO
>Poland
You had a left-wing party Samoobrona in the 2000s but a suspicious "assassination" and it collapsed
>The Baltics
Fascist apartheid states that I hope Monke enters
>The Balkans
Nothing happening, mostly western cucks
>>2538002oh really you massive Captain Obvious
>>2538038Zero seats Zigga, at least "The Left" has some in North Macedonia.
>>2538033>Whybecause noone voots for them. anticommunist propaganda is very efficient
>>2538052Is it really still that bad? The anti-fascist defense wall fell in 89', the Union in 91'. There have been like 3 recessions/crashes since then.
>>2538033Stop spreading FUD, cunt.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/La_France_Insoumise#Political_programme>Other proposals include withdrawing from the North Atlantic Treaty Organization (NATO) to avoid French involvement in wars waged by the United States and thus only to act within the framework of the United Nations (UN); reinforcing the 35-hour work-week and moving towards 32 hours; and reducing the retirement age to 60.[10][51] This programme, named L'Avenir en commun (transl. A Shared Future), was published by the Éditions du Seuil on 1 December 2016. It is based around seven axioms: a Sixth Republic; distribution of wealth; environmental planning; withdrawal from European treaties; peace and independence; human progress; and "on the borders of humanity" (ocean,[53] space, and digital); thematic booklets, deepening the proposals of the movement, have also been published as the campaign progressed.A book outlining LFI positions is literally posted ITT. Don't @ me before opening it up, bitch.
>>2538109Which is why they fucking couldn't get an anti-NATO clause in New Popular Front. Is Melenchon gonna run and lose again and then tell everyone to vote for Macroon or Bridgette or whatever that thing is?
>>2538119Stop drinking bleach
>>2538033Because being unironic national socialist is on its face a retarded political position?
Belgian resistance holds up €140 billion loan for Ukraine at EU summit
>After a summit of EU leaders, Belgian Prime Minister Bart De Wever complained he had not received answers to all his concerns about a groundbreaking plan to issue a €140 billion loan to Ukraine.
Belgium held its ground during a summit of European Union leaders, preventing a breakthrough on an audacious plan to issue a €140 billion loan to Ukraine using the immobilised assets of the Russian Central Bank.
The bulk of the assets is held at Euroclear, a central securities depository in Brussels.
Belgian Prime Minister Bart De Wever raised the demands in exchange for his blessing, calling for the "full mutualisation" of financial risks and the provision of airtight guarantees from all member states. He also urged that Russian sovereign assets held in other European jurisdictions be added to the common pot.
"Who is going to give those guarantees? Is it the member states?" he said after the summit concluded. "Because the European Commission cannot oblige the member states to sign a guarantee."
The main concern for the Belgian prime minister is Russian retaliation if Moscow demands its assets back and sanctions are undone.
"If you take the money from my country, if it goes wrong, I am not able, and certainly not willing, in a week's time to pay €140 billion," he said.
"So I would imagine that everybody who is really for this decision, really wants to make this happen, is also ready, willing and able to make a guarantee so that I can sleep quietly at night knowing that if it goes wrong or sour that the solidarity will make (sure) that the money is actually there," he added.
This question was not answered with a tsunami of enthusiasm around the table."
France is at risk of gradual economic “suffocation” unless it addresses its budget and debt problems, the governor of the Bank of France has warned.
In an interview with La Croix on Saturday, Francois Villeroy de Galhau acknowledged that France is facing a “serious budgetary problem,” as the government deficit remains high at 5.4% of GDP in 2025, only slightly improved from 5.8% last year. He said France must bring the shortfall down to 3% by 2029 to restore fiscal credibility.
“Our country is not threatened with bankruptcy, but with gradual suffocation,” Villeroy de Galhau said, pointing to debt-servicing costs projected to rise from €30 billion in 2020 to more than €100 billion by the end of the decade. He warned that higher interest rates are already pushing up borrowing costs for households and businesses while diverting funds from priorities such as defense and the green transition.
“Finally, and above all, it is an increasingly heavy debt that we are leaving to our children and grandchildren,” he said. France’s public debt is now at €3.3 trillion ($3.9 trillion), or about 115% of its GDP.
His comments came after Moody’s credit rating agency revised France’s sovereign outlook from stable to negative, citing political “fragmentation” that could hinder policymaking. Earlier this year, both Fitch Ratings and S&P Global Ratings downgraded France’s credit rating to A+, also flagging fiscal and political risks.
Villeroy de Galhau said Moody’s is now the only major agency that still grants France a double-A rating, describing it as “a sign that the country retains strengths, even if the outlook is negative.”
He maintained a forecast for modest growth of around 0.7% in 2025, noting that France remains “the major European country that has created the most jobs over the past ten years.” Unemployment in France, which has traditionally been high, is currently at about 7.5%.
Reminder that no european movement can call itself socialist or communist if it is does not make leaving the EU (and NATO) a priority.
>>2538091>Is it really still that bad?anon I
>>2538052Its not as simple. Dedicated socialist parties suffer from 0 funding, as people with money dont enter them, which makes even putting your name out there during elections very difficult.
>>2538033>>2538469I think some of you don't realize how unpopular being anti-NATO and anti-EU is at the moment, because of, guess it,
the war in Ukraine and the disaster that is a Tory-controlled post-Brexit UK.
I say this as someone who is in favor of leaving NATO and drafting a long-term plan to leave the EU without losing too many advantages from it (minimal border controls in the Schengen area for example).
But politics aren't a purity contest, you need to appeal to the masses if you want to go somewhere within a bourgeois democratic system.
I think the strategy of La France Insoumise is pretty good in the sense that they want to leave NATO and are somewhat Euroskeptic, it's inscribed in their program, but they don't talk much about it.
Face it, most people don't care about big talk mentioning imperialism and speeches from a 1935 Soviet mummy. They want higher wages, a more stable financial situation, easy access to housing, very simple basic stuff. The emphasis should be on such matters. All the talk about NATO is already there for people who are educated on geopolitics in specific newspapers and discussion groups. Hating NATO is truly popular only in Serbia.
I don't see the point of loudly proclaiming "Putin did nothing wrong!" in the public space. It's not the time to say "We will bury you!", because normal workers are rather afraid of being buried themselves by their own national bourgeoisie right now.
>>2538678Anti-NATO
and anti-EU position is eapecially toxic. It appeals only to nationalists, who arent going to vote socialists anyway. Eapecially now that libs recognize USA as a fascist state, replacing NATO with common European defence allience seems like a good opportunity for finally breaking it.
>>2538471Because Russian alternative imperialism is more important than socialism.
>>2538678>>2538705This is the standard lib response
>We have to capitulate to the rightGo join your local neolib party you'll feel more at home there
>>2538737What about that is capitulation?
>>2538739It's capitulating to false consciousness instead of advocating for the class interests of the working class, ie. the dissolution of the EU.
>>2538678>>2538705>>2538724>>2538739Utter right opportunism. Russia's defeat of Nazi Ukraine will not only be helpful for Ukrainian Communists and anti-fascists but will be a crippling blow to the trans-Atlantic system, NATO, the EU, and the "rules-based genocide" order. Communists and anti-fascists patriots who fail to build the groundwork, mass organizations, and parties at this time period are going to be flatfooted and behind the masses when they are in motion.
>>2538759Could you actually elaborate what you mean? You are just saying things with no meaning.
>>2538781Watch the fucking video
>>2537052The EU is an imperial capitalist association. I'm done with arguing with you idiots, Lenin hashed this shit out over 100 years ago go read him if you want answers for why communists oppose imperialism.
Anti-EU is far more toxic than Anti-NATO, specially now with Trump. EU is more difficult to be against cause people confuse and think you are against any cooperation and coordination between Europe regions. That's the job of communists to say that the EU is bad cause of capitalism and its neolib structure. I don't even like nations.
>>2538737>>2538761>A socialist/communist party shouldn't talk about wages, degrading work conditions, housing, taxes, inflation, and anything that concerns the daily life of workers, they should only talk about my pet issue which is Azov and how we should suck Cucktin's cock more.Ok, can't wait for your absolutely pure party with the correct anti-imperialist line to get 0.01% of votes during the next elections.
Special mention to
>anti-fascists patriotsPatriots vote for AfD and RN, not left-wing parties. They only care about getting rid of Muslims in Europe, they don't give a fuck about anti-imperialism, they want a strong imperialist country for their own benefit.
>>2538796>wages, degrading work conditions, housing, taxes, inflation, and anything that concerns the daily life of workers, they should only talk about my pet issue which is AzovHoly strawman
>Patriots vote for AfD and RN, not left-wing parties. They only care about getting rid of Muslims in Europe, they don't give a fuck about anti-imperialism, they want a strong imperialist country for their own benefit.So we need to capitulate to their demands for some reason then?
"Social-chauvinism and opportunism are the same in their political essence; class collaboration, repudiation of the proletarian dictatorship, rejection of revolutionary action, obeisance to bourgeois legality, non-confidence in the proletariat, and confidence in the bourgeoisie. The political ideas are identical, and so is the political content of their tactics. Social-chauvinism is the direct continuation and consummation of Millerandism, Bernsteinism, and British liberal-labour policies, their sum, their total, their highest achievement. " -Lenin.
>>2538796>A socialist/communist party shouldn't talk about wages, degrading work conditions, housing, taxes, inflation, and anything that concerns the daily life of workers, they should only talk about my pet issue which is Azov and how we should suck Cucktin's cock more.When did I say that retard? Of course, a Communist Party should focus on bread-and-butter issues and be the leading force in the movement for housing, unions, better wages, etc.
>Patriots vote for AfD and RN, not left-wing parties.Surrendering your nation and its history to right-wing populists is a disaster. Read Georgi Dimitrov's "On National Nihilism". Communists must represent the whole working masses of the country and the patriotic alternative to the traitor NATO-occupied American whore house governments. They must lead the fight for sovereignty, independence and security.
>>2538789Its is a stupid video. In no way has it been demonstrated that dissolution of EU would be to benefit of anyone other than national rulling classes.
Like nobody here is for EU in its current neoliberal form, soft euroskepticism is inherent to any leftist movement. But saying there should be no EU is an awful policy, EU already does too many things that have tangible positive impact on lives of European citizens, you cant run on "we are getting rid of good things you like".
>>2538759Leaving the EU should be done right, look at what happened in the UK, it's not a silver bullet in itself, they still have horrific neoliberalism, nothing changed.
>>2538793The problem of the EU is that EU treaties are above national laws. You can perhaps start enacting a few socialist policies at the beginning, but at some point there will be a conflict with Brussels if you go too far (renationalizing too many critical industries is verboten for example). Even Keynesian reforms are too hardcore for the EU, and that's the main problem.
And if you are part of the Eurozone, you are subjected to the whims of Germans, you can't print money to increase demand and tax the rich to avoid inflation in your own country for example, you can't because Brussels and Frankfurt stated in a treaty a 2-3% inflation rate by year is the optimal rate and you need to deal with it.
So that's why I think leaving the EU is necessary at some point, it's not because it's le big bad imperialist or some buzzwords from terminally online MLs, it's because the treaties are above national law and neoliberal to the core.
However I'm still in favor of a Pan-European union, but it should be done right.
>>2538825The EU is a Nazi-Atlanticist tool that was used to tie the national bourgeoisie of Germany and France together under American vassalage. The "free market" clauses within the EU literally make it, from its foundation, an anti-Communist reactionary organization, let alone its anti-Communist laws, acceptance of the Baltic Apartheid states. The Communist position is national liberation and independence from Yanqui pimps and their prostitute dogs in Brussels.
>>2538814>>2538823What is your plan then? Why not do entryism in the biggest left party of your country and start pushing for more anti-NATO talking points? Or join a party who is focused on this issue? Or start your own party?
You are posting here as if bitching about the situation and posting a Lenin quote on /leftypol/ will change anything, as if suddenly anti-NATO talking points will become more popular among the masses. I just analyzed the situation and stated the reasons why I think it's an unpopular topic in the current geopolitical situation. If you think left-activists should talk about it some more, join them, talk about it, see their reactions, put up some anti-NATO posters in the streets, really, I can't help you to do your own activism if this is a very important subject matter to you.
>>2538705>It appeals only to nationalists, who arent going to vote socialists anywayThe problem is that these nationalists are predominantly working class and not just that, but the only major political force that appeals to the working class.
>>2538837>let alone its anti-Communist lawsThere is a communist party in my country, but they are morons, so they are unpopular. They used to be popular, but it's not the fault of the EU if they started shooting themselves in the foot repeatedly during the last 50 years.
>acceptance of the Baltic Apartheid statesAh yes, another very popular topic: let's give the Baltics to Russia. I wouldn't even mind, the Baltics are a shithole, but try talking about this to left activists IRL or normal workers and see how they react. Do it, you learn by doing.
>The Communist position is national liberationSo the Baltics getting annexed by Russia would be "national liberation"? Not sure if I understand the logic here. As far as I know, Lithuanian, Latvian and Estonian are different languages than Russian.
wholesome smol bean russians need living space, you nazis wouldn't understand this
>>2538828>it's not because it's le big bad imperialist or some buzzwords from terminally online MLs>it's because the treaties are above national law and neoliberal to the core<imperialism is fine bros<the problem are treaties and le hecking neoliberalism<you fucking terminally online MLslmao
>>2538859>There is a communist party in my country, but they are morons, so they are unpopular. They used to be popular, but it's not the fault of the EU if they started shooting themselves in the foot repeatedly during the last 50 years.What country are you in? France or Spain? Eurocommunism wrecked havoc and all of these Communist parties became left-wing social Democrats.
>The Communist position is national liberationThe reconstitution of the USSR is the position that MLs have across Europe in order to facilitate the revival of the Communist movement on the continent. Estonia, Latvia and Lithuania are republics in the USSR that was illegally dissolved
and taken over by neo-Nazi separatist bandits.
>>2538828This narrative assumes that a.) EU is largerly independent from its member governments, and b.) member governments would love to do more pro-worker leftie stuff, but EU does not let them.
Both of those are false, EU parliement has pretty consistend record of voting to the left of most national parliements, while EU commision is appointed by member governments and EU council is just meeting of government representativea.
>>2538876Reconsitution of USSR? Under what, current Russian governemnt?
>>2538886Well wake me up when they assume control of Russia then.
>>2538870I'm not saying imperialism is good, it's that saying the EU is le big bad imperialist doesn't address the crux of the matter, which are EU treaties being above national laws, preventing anyone to stop doing anything except what Brussels want.
Perhaps it feels good to bitch about muh big imperialist Satan on the internet, but most people don't give a fuck, they don't know Lenin's definition of imperialism. Getting rid of EU treaties would be a necessary step to stop being le evil whiteboi imperialist, it's not simply a vibe, you need to explain the actual political mechanisms at play here.
>>2538876>all of these Communist parties became left-wing social DemocratsExactly, and that's not the fault of the EU if they became retarded.
>The reconstitution of the USSR is the position that MLs have across Europe in order to facilitate the revival of the Communist movement on the continent.Kek, and if France colonize Algeria again, we will get another Paris Commune by that same logic.
>>2538878You aren't wrong, but the problem is that currently, no one in the EU commission want anything to do with socialism. If Die Linke or LFI come to power for example, they will be restricted by EU treaties if there is no push to change them, regarding for example privatization.
It's a "bend or break" kind of situation if a socialist party want to do something else that distributing scraps like boring socdems and get humiliated in the process.
The EU at its core is a free trade agreement that binds together the capital of European states, but it itself is not a state and has no authority to restrict the power of capital in any way, whether in the practical sense (it lacks the most important aspect of a state, the monopoly on violence which means it can't forcibly confiscate the property of big corporations and billionaires or force concessions out of them) or according its own declared principles, which are decidedly neoliberal. Behind its abstract moral principles the EU in practice is a
1. Vehicle for corporate welfare. Every EU grant, including those that are officially given to Eastern member states to help them catch up to Western Europe eventually flow back into the pockets of Western-Europe-based corporations.
2. A tool to disrupt the industrial policies of member states as there is an inherent tension between industrial and finance capital. The former promises insufficiently low returns to capital, just as Marx predicted. The disruption (Western tech startups love this word for a reason) then allows financial capital to extract profits to the disadvantage of national economies. A good example is how the EU favors wind and solar over everything else (even carbon-neutral nuclear and hydro) because the unstable supply of electricity provided by them allows finance capital to short energy markets to an extent they could never do if only stable energy sources were used.
3. A source of funding for soft power operations in close cooperation with institutions like the OSF or the NED that help to keep disobidient member states in line.
>>2538705>replacing NATO with common European defence allience seems like a good opportunity for finally breaking it.100% agree with this.
>>2538888nice quads, but also wake me up when they're an actual party, also unrelated, but does anyone have that guy showing the KPRF isn't even a political party? i couldn't find it anywhere
>>2538858working class or dejected petty bourgeois? there's a huge difference, that's the actual voter base of most of those nationalist parties btw
>>2538705>Anti-NATO and anti-EU is eapecially toxic>anti-imperialism is in fact nationalism>Trump doesn't want to go to war against Russia so we need ze Krauts and Frogs go to war against Russia again t. Visegrad
fuck the EU btw
>>2538825The EU FORCES you to have a private market economy to join. It is a FUNDAMENTAL DEMAND of the EU. If you think that this is progressive in 2025, you are a RETARD
>>2538825>EU already does too many things that have tangible positive impact on lives of European citizensSuch as?
>>2538896what you say is that we have to embrace idealist bullshit and cater to rightoid nationalists. peak nu-leftypol. but yeah, these terminally online MLs are the problem, not libbrained clowns believing in treaties, ignoring material reality of UK still being an imperialist hellhole going down the shitter, ignoring that Slowakia and other former soviet republics still get bullied by the EU even though they are not part of the EU, thus are not beholden to EU treaties.
>>2539008>implying Slovakia isn't part of the EU since 2004So that's the power of radical anti-imperialist political analysis, huh. If you want to post about European politics, maybe research what is actually happening in Europe, out-of-touch sloganeering isn't helping your case in any way whatsoever.
>>2538896>If Die Linke or LFI come to powerIf the left came to power in Germany and France, they have enough clout in the EU to so whatever they want. And more importantly, Linke got 8% in last elections, LFI 10%. If there were socialist governments in power who could make their own leftist international association, then to hell with EU, but that is not the world we live in. Why are you basing your current political positions on hypothetical alt-history scenarios? How is this different from anarchists who reject traditional socialism on grounds that we should just build cortagecore solarpank commune instead, who you would undoubtably label utopian and idealist?
>>2538962Everybody has private market economy. None of its current members were anything other than private market economies before joining, and none of them currently show any desire to be anything but.
>>2538991Freedom of movement is a big one. Consumer protection laws is another. Plenty of EU innitiatives in education. Lot of things being build, like schools, parks, infrastructure projects, etc. have a plaque on them telling you it was done thanks to EU funding. People have positive experiences with EU. Anti-EU crowd is overwhelmingly rightwingers, who are fundamentaly lost to the left. Pandering to
hard anti-EU sentiments gains you nothing.
And dont say thing about this is capitulation to communist principles or whatever, its doing the best in a sub-optimal situation. Abandoning building planned economy, throwing minorities under the bus, selling arms to genocidal regime, that would be betrayal of principles. I would love to have European Soviet instead, but I dont, instead I have to pick between neoliberal internationalism or national conservativism.
>>2539105touché. i bow my head and accept that only rejecting treaties and fellating rightoids is the way to go.
>>2538938Workers absolutely support right-wing parties
That doesn't mean petit-bourgeois can't right-wing too, but that depends on what we mean by petit-bourgeois. Actual small property owners that produce real goods, farmers in particular, are usually right-wing nationalists. This is what Marx meant in his time by petit-bourgeois and it is still correct in the economic sense, but context matters. The way capitalism developed in the late 19th and early 20th century, the uppers strata of the working class, professionals and the trade union bureacracy became just as subservient to capital as the petit-bourgeois. After neoliberalism, material production of things became less and less useful to capital and the source of profits shifted to monopoly rents. This made the industrial and agricultural petit-bourgeois an opponent of finance capital. Meanwhile the lower strata of the working class became lumpenized and its upper strata in large part shifted from managing industry to managing rentier capitalism. So in the political sense the real reactionary middle class is the professional-managerial class, and not the commodity-producing small property owners. It only makes it clearer that certain types PMCs refuse to be legally classified as workers because with their high income it's more beneficial for them to give up the legal protections that people classified as "employed" enjoy just so they can avoid paying mandatory social security contributions. These are the people who vote for mainstream liberal/green/"soc"dem/conservative parties. They are the ones with a stake in the system. Not the farmers getting raped by Monsanto.
>>2539146>If there were socialist governments in power who could make their own leftist international association, then to hell with EU, but that is not the world we live in. Why are you basing your current political positions on hypothetical alt-history scenarios?It's like a HoI4 autist who asks himself "what if there was a socialist revolution in Austria-Hungary and it became socialist?" Cool idea, but it won't ever make the Habsburg dynasty committed Marxists.
>>2539155One thing these graphs should include is what % of total number of each strata voted at all. In last German elections only half of all eligible voters voted.
>>2539202Could be solved by legalising drugs, but judeo-christians would be malding so we cant have that.
In Slovenia anti-Roma tensions are rising because a Gypsy murdered someone and in general they are disliked in that particular region of Slovenia. People seem in the mood to pogrom the gypsies while the rightists are talking about 'law and order' and the leftists are talking about 'tolerance'.
>>2539146>Everybody has private market economy. None of its current members were anything other than private market economies before joining, and none of them currently show any desire to be anything but.Except every single post-communist country which were given explicit demands by European advisors that they should fully open their markets to the West and sell off all of their state-owned industry if they ever want to join the EU. Their economies were purposefully hollowed under a carefully executed plan that was explicitly neoliberal.
>Freedom of movement is a big oneWhat's so good about brain drain in poorer Eastern European countries and increased competition among workers in richer Western European countries? Or about the middle strata of Southern European countries being turned into open-air museums with sky-high unemployment and ordinary people getting priced out of major cities? Does anyone like these aspects of open borders?
>Consumer protection laws is anotherThe reason why they are there in agriculture is because farmers are constantly in revolt. It wouldn't be otherwise without the EU, especially when it has already done a lot to make agriculture more export-driven and severely reduce the food sovereignty of European countries. In the car industry they are mostly about how to annoy the people sitting in the car the most effectively. They are a protectionist measure which is fine by me against non-EU countries but it also makes cars stupidly expensive. I have to admit the tech industry regulations are cool, but it's also not a flex because the only reason the EU is doing objectively good things like making USB-C mandatory is because it has no tech companies to speak of and in practice that means that US companies control the minds of Europeans and any EU country can be literally turned off at a push of a button. But I don't think there is a single person that is glad about those stupid plastic bottle caps, other than the (most likely German) companies which were given the chance to developed otherwise unnecessary machinery specifically for crushing plastic bottles.
>Plenty of EU innitiatives in educationWhat do you mean exactly? The mandatory propaganda classes in high school about the greatness of the EU or the free networking opportunities for would-be PMCs?
>Lot of things being build, like schools, parks, infrastructure projects, etc.We should also thank the EU for not putting people below a certain income level into gas chambers and legalising raping children for people above a certain income level. None of the things you listed can be considered an achievement when they are necessary for the day-to-day functioning of any country and the EU's budget is funded by member states. Also they are in essence corporate subsidies. I wonder why every single playground in my country has those tilted rotating rings that every kid has fallen off from at least once…
>People have positive experiences with EUYou probably could've said the same thing about the Orthodox Church in comparison to the Russian Empire as a whole. Doesn't matter. Eurocrats will get what they deserve.
>Anti-EU crowd is overwhelmingly rightwingersAnd proletarian. At least definitely more proletarian the legacy parties.
>>2539146AfD + CDU will reign supreme here in 2028 and even in the most unlikely case of moderate pro-NATO both sider lukewarm succdems like Die Linke seizing absolute majority in the Bundestag and RN getting BTFOd by Mélenchon nothing would change. Not in Germany, not in France and definitely not in fucking Brussels, because the main point of the EU is to cement the status of the bourgeoisie as ruling caste forever and thwart even the slightest, most moderate attempts towards socialism.
>Freedom of movement is a big one.For drug trafickers, human resource trafickers, bourgeois and kulaks who exploit cheap labour from Eastern Europe that's a big one indeed, in fact ensuring "freedom of movement" is one of the EU's most important tasks. For the working class it doesn't mean shit though (i don't even move a lot around within Schengen during holidays). Or it means becoming another foreign bum on the streets of Berlin after losing a temporary job and getting booted out of the flat.
>Consumer protection laws is another.Getting axed as we speak. Worked admittedly halfway decent some 20 years ago, however only for foreign products. Domestic porkies get a free pass for blatant scam and rip offs. Like, there's nothing being done about inflation in the food sector since like 5 years. NOTHING. Because the EU does not give a shit about "EU citizens". The EU exclusively cares about EU porkies.
>Plenty of EU innitiatives in education.Like privatization initiatives and allowing capitalists, the church and even all sorts of religious nutjobs and esoteric crackpots to transform public education into a business. Also i don't give a shit about stuff like Erasmus. That's for the benefit of bourgeois and upper middle class kids only.
>Lot of things being build, like schools, parks, infrastructure projects, etc. As if we didn't have that before the EU. In fact it actually functioned much better before the EU was involved. What's more, right now these funds get reassigned to build a monstrous conventional war machine i.e. billions if not trillions that are much needed for other tasks such as social housing are going to disappear in the deep pockets of a couple stinking rich MIC porkies in the US and EU with zero ROI for EU taxpayers. Not to mention the prospect of an actual war against RU.
>And dont say thing about this is capitulation to communist principlesYou sound like an average liberal tbh, so you probably don't need to worry about that anyways. For an actual principled ML however not taking a hard line against fundamentally anti-communist entities like EU and NATO is simply stupid.
>>2539246lol where are gypsies not disliked?
>>2539282>Also i don't give a shit about stuff like Erasmus. That's for the benefit of bourgeois and upper middle class kids only.See, this is why no actual discussion can be had with likes of you, just 0 intellectual honesty. On its face a nonsense, as if bourgeois families have to rely on a stipend to be able to study abroad. Obviously this is a program that benefits people who cant afford that, but that doesnt matter, none of these arguments are based on any reasoning. You just have some emotionally motivated dislike of EU, not even as a real institution, more like an abstract idea of it, and then you retroactively make whatever justification for this feeling.
You know what I got reminded of, white reading your post, there was this moment in US Democratic primary debate between Sanders and Clinton, where Clinton tried to justify her opposition to free college by saying American people should not be paying for Donald Trump's children's education.
Fuck you.
>>2539246Yawn. Lumpen gippoes need to be forcefully sent to work camps, prole gippoes already want a job but won't find one due to racism. Kill all p-bourg gippoes.
Le "racial tension" solved in 3 steps.
>>2539305Under AES, where they got to lead dignified lives with the rest of the population, you fucking scum.
>>2539367>You just have some emotionally motivated dislike of EUMy dislike for the EU is political in nature because the EU is not a person but a political entitiy and that dislike is from a working class perspective. I gave you a number of clear examples why the EU is shit in particular for working class people but for some reason you got triggered by mentioning Erasmus which barely concerns an average EU prole but is loved by middle class youth and smug liberals in particular because they like to be smug about their education and how much they know about the world. Erasmus is for kids with higher education which means upper middle class because 75% of PMC offspring receives higher education. These kids don't need stipendia, because their parents are top earners. Meanwhile only 25% of kids with working class background make it into higher education. So i reckon you're a deluded middle class burger liberal who knows nothing about the EU's actual nature or you're a dishonest liberal EU shill. Either way, i'm glad i made you upset.
>>2539384I wonder if the proles will wake up when they notice all that money "we" saved by gutting the welfare state for decades gets used up immediately on weapons. the cheque hasn't really arrived yet, and you can't blame immigrants forever
>>2539282Basiert DDR fahne posteirt. Rot front von ein Ami genosse!
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