/leftypol/ - Leftist Politically Incorrect

the imperialists are old, confused, demented and dying, the communists young and full of SEX

>>2538189

The capitalist class is by definition divided against itself; Each capital in competition with all other capitals for supremacy (or at least relative survival) of market share of the whole economy.

Therefore its not too surprising that they might engage in behaviours that degenerate each other, or at least refrain from larger scale cooperation to prevent their overal.degeneration.

>>2538194
Sure, that and nepotism could do it, but how has nobody other than Kissinger said "Hold on. Just hold the fuck on and reign it in for a while." yet? As far as I can tell, the techies were the only ones giving them the wherewithal to continue on their current course. They have to know that the ship is going down at this point, right?

As far as I can tell, the idea is to maintain the course and let (controlled) opposition to take the reigns in a few years to relieve some pressure, but surely we've passed a point of no return… I guess I'm just rambling at this point and don't take issue with anything you've said… I'm just in disbelief that people so incompetent could seize control of such a massive machine and fuck things beyond repair so quickly. As far as I can tell, the technology for their neo-feudalist system isn't even going to be ready for at least 30-40 more years, crumbling infrastructure notwithstanding

>>2538213
Oh and the most offensive part is how unconvincing they all are now; they don't even fucking try. Used to, they'd at least have good bullshitters: Regan, Bush (even Jr wasn't a bad bullshitter), Clinton, Obama. Now? None of them are any good. They're LOW-QUALITY. Fucking pathetic the lot of them.

No. The issue is that Western Imperialism is in a crisis of capitalism and no one has come up with a theory to replace neoliberalism to keep it going.

So porkies are scared and either clinging to neoliberalism, which grows weaker every day, or jumping on reactionary populist bandwagons like Trump. But neither group has a convincing theory for dealing with China’s economic domination.

The paths forward in the near future will either be the reactionaries start a war with China and lose (or it goes full strategic nuclear exchange and we all lose) or the neoliberals accept reality and capitulate to China. The result will be a return to semi-planned capitalism, with maybe some social democracy veneer, and higher taxes on wealth.

Oligarchs are degenerating because the opposition to them is even weaker, have you met or followed union leaders lately? Embarrassing

>now
the powers that be have never been particularly intelligent or competent

>>2538213
>>2538220

I think the logic goes something like: If things cannot be significantly improved (because the kind of collective action is impossible in the circumstances) why bother investing in increasing people's competency do that they can improve things.

That obviously allows some degenerative feedback loops to take hold where less competence people train people who are even less competent and so on.

>>2538189
Its just blind parasitism to power, I guess the mileage varies in each country but in mine it feels like they are just trying to accelerate the looting process

>>2538213
Because Kissinger was the last realist/pragmatist who actually cared about America's success in power in the United States. The ones that came after him were either neoliberal/capitalist democracy ideological fanatics or purely self-serving and uncaring of national interests.

>>2538357
I forgot to write the whole thing, that the ideological fanatics have a worldview based on their ideology which leads to a disconnect with the actual material reality, and thus they make irrational decisions. e.g. China can't invent anything on their own because they're not capitalist and the system stifles competition etc. etc. so if we block advanced chips to them they won't be able to make their own.

Yes the ruling class is incompetent. Now what does that say about the common people who vastly outnumber them? We are even more incompetent and retarded. Maybe we deserve to be ruled, after all.

>>2538189
>the current batch
theyre like two generations removed from the people who wrote the cold war propaganda. so even if the previous gen who taught them sorta knew it wasn't real they 100% dont. see that NED exec who got exposed for not knowing they are a CIA cutout and genuinely thought they were spreading democracy and got in a fight with their boss for being woke and then got him fired by HR
https://thegrayzone.com/2023/05/29/grayzone-national-endowment-democracy-vp-cia/

also see any one of andrei martyanovs rants

>>2538461


In some ways the western elite from the late cold war onward are like the inverse of the Soviet & post-Soviet elite; Many of the latter didn't believe in their communist ideology at all, whereas a huge majority of the former believed in their liberal & neoliberal ideologies so ferociously they overdosed / are overdosing on their own supply.

*By elite here I am referring to the petty bourgeois intelligentsia.

I mean, are the ruling class really losing? On what basis are they incompetent?

If you mean because standard of living sucks then no that's not incompetence they just don't care. If you mean because economic growth sucks, that's also not a problem for them. They are all loaded and their own life is extremely comfortable. Economic growth is really a problem for the plebs because the job market sucks and their wages don't grow. If you mean because their geopolitics sucks, again the ruling class themselves personally don't suffer as a result of losing in the Middle East or Ukraine or whatever.

Again, all of this is just cope. If the West collapses, it just means your life will suck more. The ruling class have been winning for centuries and they continue to win, and none of the things that happen in politics and economics really matter to them. Their own personal lives are fine.

>>2538463
>I mean, are the ruling class really losing?
Yes

>On what basis are they incompetent?
They've concentrated their wealth into derivative financial instruments with little underlying real value. And aren't giving enough scraps to workers to stave off unrest.

>If you mean because economic growth sucks, that's also not a problem for them.
Of course it is a problem for capitalists where most of their wealth is tied up in derivative financial instruments.

>If you mean because their geopolitics sucks, again the ruling class themselves personally don't suffer as a result of losing in the Middle East or Ukraine or whatever.
Yes they do. Without access to goods and labour from those areas at an unequal rate of exchange they can't sustain the economies of the Imperial core.

>The ruling class have been winning for centuries and they continue to win, and none of the things that happen in politics and economics really matter to them.
Tell that to the Russian nobility.

>>2538462

>In some ways the western elite from the late cold war onward are like the inverse of the Soviet & post-Soviet elite; Many of the latter didn't believe in their communist ideology at all

A passage from a diary of a Soviet official, Anatoly Chernyaev, to understand the vibe of late Soviet Politics

> March 8 1990 : "Richard Kosolapov’s article in Pravda, “The Life Position of Lenin”… A strong articleby an honest and decent person who is concerned about the collapse of moral principles ofsociety and the state. The moral principles for which Lenin laid the foundation. A desperate callto use the moral potential left by Lenin, which is embedded in Leninism. We aren’t using it well,he says. He writes about Lenin’s stance on “bribes,” too… 60 years later. Lenin once wroteabout bribes, at the beginning of the NEP. Kosolapov believes that out of the three vices L.I.wrote about with anguish (communist conceit, illiteracy, and bribery), we completely got rid ofonly the second. Alas! (I understand Richard) Our illiteracy is worse now than it was then. Notactual illiteracy, but an even more dangerous kind: when we swear by Leninism but we don’teven know it and don’t want to know it. Which of our leaders has ever seriously studied Lenin?Which of them refers to him in his political practice? Who reads Lenin seriously? Or even thematerials that our scholars develop “on the basis of Leninism”? Not to mention following Leninin everyday morality and political morality, they do not want to hear about it! If anyone addresses such a claim to them, he is immediately branded as anti-Soviet."

>Also, based Kosolapov for trying.

>>2538472
Western countries still produce massive amounts of physical goods. Financialization is a debunked thesis btw, read Michael Roberts. Also we are literally entering the new paradigm of protectionism and bringing back manufacturing.

Once again you are doing nothing but coping. You are trying to alleviate your own personal suffering by pretending that the ruling class is losing in any way.

>>2538478
>Western countries still produce massive amounts of physical goods
Not without sourcing either precursor material, assembled components, or energy from outside the West.

>Financialization is a debunked thesis btw
Westoid porkie cope.

>Also we are literally entering the new paradigm of protectionism and bringing back manufacturing.
Which can't be done without access to at least cheap raw materials from outside the West and massively reducing Western workers wages.

You cannot catch up to China on automation at this point and Western workers are not going to accept being reduced to 19th century standards of living.

>Once again you are doing nothing but coping.
I'm going to 'no u' this one. You are parroting ridiculous ideas like "bringing back manufacturing" without even a cursory understanding of the economics of it.

>You are trying to alleviate your own personal suffering by pretending that the ruling class is losing in any way.
I'm not suffering.

>>2538481
>I'm not suffering.
I should say. I'm not suffering now, and I'm not suffering if "bringing back manufacturing" actually did magically work, as I work in industrial automation.

I might suffer if the geriatrics and koolaid drinkers crash the economy because they are hopped up on Western supremacy delusions.

>>2538475

Ouff, rough. Poor Kosolapov…

I mean its no wonder Ilyenkov committed suicide right?

Everytime I look into this stuff I get a bit depressed with how much liberalism & revisionism eroded the USSR's intellectual climate over time.

>>2538229
Watch old videos and it becomes clear everyone seems to be much dumber today than they were 50 years ago.

>>2538189
Bourgeoisie are not under direct threat like during cold war so they are free to be as retarded as they want without any risk.

>>2538475
>> March 8 1990 : "Richard Kosolapov’s article in Pravda, “The Life Position of Lenin”… A strong articleby an honest and decent person who is concerned about the collapse of moral principles ofsociety and the state. The moral principles for which Lenin laid the foundation. A desperate callto use the moral potential left by Lenin, which is embedded in Leninism. We aren’t using it well,he says. He writes about Lenin’s stance on “bribes,” too… 60 years later. Lenin once wroteabout bribes, at the beginning of the NEP. Kosolapov believes that out of the three vices L.I.wrote about with anguish (communist conceit, illiteracy, and bribery), we completely got rid ofonly the second. Alas! (I understand Richard) Our illiteracy is worse now than it was then. Notactual illiteracy, but an even more dangerous kind: when we swear by Leninism but we don’teven know it and don’t want to know it. Which of our leaders has ever seriously studied Lenin?Which of them refers to him in his political practice? Who reads Lenin seriously? Or even thematerials that our scholars develop “on the basis of Leninism”? Not to mention following Leninin everyday morality and political morality, they do not want to hear about it! If anyone addresses such a claim to them, he is immediately branded as anti-Soviet."

Made a mistake. March 8 1980. Not 1990.

>oligarchs
back to /pol/ you go

>>2538189
When were they competent? Trump's personality formed during the peak of American dominance, most people who are in power right now are the same. These people are also quite sheltered and distant from society. There are many very basic things about modern society and culture they don't know. Trump may not even know how to use a web browser, that's how old he is. He is a member of the ruling class from the very best glory days of capitalism, he was active in political circles for many years before he got elected. British ruling class still gets maids to jack them off in bed like the aristocracy did in the 1700s. That's why figures like Bismarck are so legendary and historically important.

>>2539107
hes still competent since he can basically convince half the country to do anything. not to mention stephen miller and all the ppl behind him are doing all his policy decisions

>>2538933
Maybe /po/ (from dvach)?

>>2539142
the ones that got to leftypol from that grim place probably wouldn't complain about the "ineffectiveness" of their pork variety