/leftypol/ - Leftist Politically Incorrect

>>2542234
>Y'know Wolfenstein had the same "Pregnant woman firing some heavy machine gun" thing and I really don't know what people see in the aesthetic. Seems pretty off-putting in my opinion.
Is it portrayed positively in OBAA? A point is made that the same character abandons her responsibilities as a parent (when the daughter is born) to keep figting her revolution.
Obviously portrayed negatively in other aspects after that, such as the affair and being trigger happy.

just watched this movie. the only thing political is maybe in the first fifteen minutes (and even then it's pointless radical cool hip and sexy anarchism), they use the word imperialist once throughout the movie and after the first fifteen minutes it's a retarded and contrived action movie about some nazifascistic cabal and le epic heroes which fight over some racial bs
waste of money
just watch inherent vice

>>2545142
Likewise everywhere, yet only a branch gets the finger pointed at it

>>2545142
I would like to point out that the man who said that wrote a snitch list to the government and possibly raped someone, so all the sandal wearing fruit juice Quakers are better than him

>>2545828
Orwell was complicated, he despised Western leftists, he even despised wannabe revolutionaries who are neurotic nerds but who can't bring themselves to be a real ML, even though that would have suited him.

>>2545082
This isn't the own you think it is, because we're talking about nearly 100 million people. These aren't just voters, these bulging-eyed fanatics who are willing to storm a parliament in the thousands. It's wrong that they're doing this for him, but this represents real political will. Name a single left-wing political figure in the West who inspires the same level of loyalty and fanaticism that Trump does.

>>2546090
Communist revolution isn’t a political campaign centering a bourgeois politician, I would be troubled if there were a bourgeois politician inspiring such fanaticism in proletarians (Jan 6th was not at all a proletarian uprising, it was a petit bourgeois putsch, the people present had substantially better material conditions than proletarians do, ranging from high paid lawyers to petit bourgeois doctors and various other small time owners, some actual CEOs of medium sized companies, and ex-military and off-duty police; all the force mostly naturally aligned against the proletarian movement to begin with)

The real problem is the sheer amount of leftoids that cannot see in Jan 6 a modern Beerhall Putsch in every conceivable way

>>2546147
That’s because the proletariat has not and never has been a political force, only the petit bourgeois has, even Lenin acknowledges this

>>2546147
You're really arguing that of the 1,500+ people who participated in Jan-6, all of them were petit bourgeois? That this fine gentleman is also bourgeois? Like it or not, no Western leftist whether socdems or so-called "radicals" appeals to the working class, neither on a political level nor in terms of spreading ideas

>>2546312
i absolutely believe this guy is PB, yea. probably has a website selling flags and horn-hats.

>>2546312
I think we did confirm he is petit-bourgeois. As is the class character of Fascism's base. Whiny faggots who want to be lords of their pathetic little feifdom.

>>2546378
A guy who was raised by a single mom and went to community college is petit-bourgeois?

>>2546761
Anon stop using terms you don't understand or at least have the decency to look them up.

>>2546312
> You're really arguing that of the 1,500+ people who participated in Jan-6, all of them were petit bourgeois?
America is a country of hundreds of millions of people, there are literally tens of millions of petit bourgeois individuals in the USA and that is from the specific class of small business owners alone, which is not to mention the millions more from the various other stratum I stated were present; 1,500 petit bourgeois individuals in a single location isn’t even 1% of all petit bourgeois in a like ten states alone

>>2546761
Many if not most petit bourgeois didn’t go to college at all, since the main purpose of college is to raise the value of individual labour-powers
Petit bourgeois isn’t a moral term, doesn’t refer to background, and isn’t about your income

>>2546787
>>2546147
My enemies supporters are actually just petty bourgeois. Actually no Western worker is working class anymore; they’re all 'bleeding imperialists' exploiting Asia and Africa. Oh, but wait, East Asians aren’t working class either, they’re also imperialists too. And then Arabs? Also imperialists. It just goes on and on. Western leftists will overanalyze, theorize, and twist themselves into knots to cope with the fact that they’re unlikable and insufferable and that a midwit billionaire (honestly, I’d call him a complete moron) is somehow more likable than all of them.

>>2546847
Jan 6 rioters aren’t “all of Trump’s supporters”, maybe don’t hold retarded assumptions and you can comprehend how 1,500 rioters turned out to be significantly better off financially than the vast majority of Americans lmao

>>2546847
Please go and read instead of throwing around terms you don't understand, this is horrible to look at.

>>2547710
shrek was a landlord monopolist over his swamp who becomes reactionary at immigrant inhabitants, and makes a deal with the aristocracy to have them evicted.

>>2542234
>not some dude who'll write a long screed about how "Normal is an aesthetic category of the bourgeoisie" or some horseshit.
Bruh all the local CPUSA people I met IRL are exactly that. I'm not kidding, they all became nonbinary and are a part of a massive polycule that is expanding into other local orgs.

>>2547710
>>2547725
On the shrek question

>>2547759
After Gus Hall, the CPUSA fell apart and really hasn't recovered.

>>2547759
>are a part of a massive polycule that is expanding into other local orgs.
Seems extremely irresponsible.

>>2545100
>>2545107
>>2545109
See, this is what I mean, as a third-world socialist, the reason we don't like you is because you over-hype yourselves so much. You all talk about 'beating up cops' at some protest or how you're politically repressed, but you're not. You don't realize what actual political violence is like. My professor's friends were all arrested and murdered, their children were threatened and a relative of mine was beaten so badly in an anti-Zia protest that he's brain-damaged and crippled. That's the reality for most of us. That's why we are more cautious. When we see you talk about your alleged leftist oppression, we lash out because you don't get it. You were never a threat to any institution of power, to anyone on this planet. Your lack of success is simply because you're all unlikable and that's it

>>2542227
>>2542234
>betty bourgeois social fascist reformist party survives in a petty bourgeois social fascist country
:O omg it must be because it's such a great communist party

>>2550192
you're like the psychos on /pol/ replying to everything with "YOU WON'T DO SHIT", we have described a problem we face and at no point said it's a worse problem necessarily. If you want to feel superior then please do, I don't care, but fuck off if you are just going to fling shit and not be constructive.

>>2550278
Calling me a /pol/tard for pointing out that Western leftists won’t do anything substantial, yet believe they’re fighting some major war, is pathetic. What I’m talking about isn’t about feeling superior, it’s about accepting reality and working within your actual limitations. Socialists in my country know what we have to do to survive, we were forced into these conditions. We are China shills now and our politics mainly focus on getting our nations to have deeper relations with China, We work with local reactionary and corrupt parties, fully aware that they’re reactionary, corrupt, and openly ethno-supremacist, because they’re the only popular ones that aren’t Islamist. And even then, we remain careful, there are subjects we will never mock or comment on because we know we could be arrested or murdered. We do this to survive while Western Leftists continue their LARP sessions.

>>2550816
>Western leftists won’t do anything substantial
Bill helped China enter the WTO you stupid ultroid

>>2550192
>>2550816
actually existing TRVTH NVKES

>>2550192
>>2550816
An imageboard isn't the place to find actually sane socialists in the imperial core. Not really sure how to diagnose the weirdness of the imperial core but overall it's pretty fucked. I don't know the whole society is just pretty surreal and maddening. We kind of live in the clown-world of the bourgeoisie where everything works on upside down logic. You go too far into that you just get into Baudrillard nonsense though. We kind of live in a simulation of capitalism. We're relatively unproductive due to imperial spoils so it's more like superstructure than material base. A soldier in an army can scrub toilets but he's still a soldier. Likewise, an overpaid barista in the core is still in the superstructure. However, class relations are still reflected in the superstructure. The barista is still a worker the same way drafted infantry are workers and the officers are capitalists. So we live in an unproductive/superstructural simulation of the capitalist/material base which much of has been offshored to the semi-periphery and periphery. It just gets really confusing. That's my take on the whole madness.

>>2550947
I've met Western leftists IRL and I think many of you mean well, but you're just disconnected from the world, In both your own societies and others. The only advice I can give to Western leftists is to just try to be normal. And don't over-anylize why you can't connect with people as some natural result of capitalist production. You're all genuinely kind of 'weird' and off-putting to a lot of people. I've worked with many Americans and Europeans in my line of work (which is unrelated to my activism), and these are just regular guys. I can have a conversation with them, talk about everyday things. I have rarely had a similar experience with a leftist activist, with some notable exceptions most of you just seem "off" and this extends to all of you, to black western leftists, to white western leftists, to asian western leftists, your all just kinda off-putting in a way that's hard to describe.

>>2551061
I‘m well adjusted and normal

>>2551061
>You're all genuinely kind of 'weird' and off-putting to a lot of people
no idea what kind of leftist exactly you met or how many, but this seem like a pretty retarded generalization. I've met plenty of "normal" people in the radical left

>>2551061
>>2551131
It's probably a lot of it that a lot of people interested in socialism in the imperial core are just really bitter and angry people. I'm definitely one of the dysfunctional types. I'm a little self-aware of it and try not to make it other people's problems but it's definitely true that normal people aren't so involved in real leftism in the imperial core.

This website is definitely going to disproportionately feature the bitter and angry sorts though.

>>2551061
Weirdo suburbanites being part of the left isn't anything new

>>2551061
Why are western leftists like this

>>2551262
I think that's a good first step. But again, all of us in the Third World who are serious about politics self‑censor. For example, I know a lot of people who are likely atheists and they know I'm likely a atheist, but we will never bring up the idea of dismissing religion, we know what will happen if we do. It's not the same as some conservative writing an opinion piece; we would be murdered by a mob for it. This extends to a lot of other issues, if you insult even a local politician, he'll send men to beat and kill you and your loved ones. So the only way to survive is to be in the good graces of another corrupt politician who will only aid you for ethno‑supremacist reasons. These factors almost create an evolutionarily pressure for us to establish an environment that is alter and favors normality

>>2551367
See the problem with "Why can't Western Marxists just be normal?" is that historically it hasn't worked.

I don't know what's wrong with the West. Shit's fucked. But being normal in the West just gets shit watered down and incredibly chauvinist. The dogmatism and revisionism and just general assholery hasn't emerged from nowhere. There has to be a better way to deal with these issues than being a cultist or a crackpot definitely.

>>2551367
Nah this is retarded, at the end of this path lies the USSR's end where no one actually believes in anything resembling Marxism and it's in their material interest to sabotage and dismantle the state to sell out to foreigners. No Marxist should fetishize proletarianization or careerism, the "norm" of capitalism is one of slavery, bending to it puts you under it's spell and allows it to subsume you entirely. Then your entire worldview becomes self-reproducing because you can just boil any princpled stance against capitalism to someone being "weird" and "not normal". Stop peddling bourgeois captialism normalization, I think people in the first world absolutely have massive fundamental issues but this ain't one of them chief. The revolution will only spring from the nations most advanced in capitalism and the patriarchical communal structures that exist in the third world will eventually be broken down by capitalism like it has in the first world. It is an inevitable end, so instead of trying to normalize such behavior accept that what is progressive for thirdies and firsties is entirely different owing to the different stages of development. Your advice on this matter is not needed nor is it useful.

>>2552021
I mean I think "be normal" is bad for the imperial core but I think the USSR was historically progressive in the main. If "be normal" works for Eastern Marxism then it works. But it really just tends to lead to social fascism to in the West.

>>2551983
>>2552021
>>2552041
Do you all hear yourselves? This is exactly what I was talking about. You will not appeal to anyone outside a small handful of educated leftists with this rhetoric. Outside the West, Communist and Leftists faced/face actual political repression that has resulted in death and imprisonment (not just a bunch of Hollywood writers losing their jobs), we’ve learned to be pragmatic. Our political views aren’t driven by what's trending or what we feel is more revolutionary or debate which is more progressive. they’re shaped by what has allowed us to survive, what has kept us from being murdered, jailed, or having our families threatened. This doesn’t apply to all Third World socialist parties, but it does for most, We work with ethno-supremacist parties who are moderately socialist (we know these parties are corrupt and violent). We are 'China shills,'(e know that China isn’t fully communist) and yet we do it to further our aims. So, seeing Western leftists face none of our constraints and still fail time and time again due to your own neurotic nature offends us. It offends us that you’re so politically useless and naive, retreating into academia and then LARPing like you’re fighting some kind of war.

>>2552204
And I'm telling you that being pragmatic and compromising with social Democrats has led to fuck all time and time again.

Your main problem is being shot. Our main problem is chauvinism. It's a very different situation. I wish I knew a strategy that would work in the West. But "just be normal" isn't it.

>>2552204
>So, seeing Western leftists face none of our constraints and still fail time and time again due to your own neurotic nature offends us.

My dude you're retarded.

I dont know why it has to be either/or. CPC and Bolshevik parties both won with less than 1% of the population actually being party members. You dont have to water down your own party to be in a coalition with others

>>2552366
We work with ethno-supremacist, corrupt racists who have taken part in ethnic cleansings and probably read their kids the elders of zion. If we can do that, you can comprise as well.
>>2552548
The Bolsheviks won 23% in the first Russian elections. More importantly, they had established a popular base within the Tsarist Army, recruiting soldiers, low-ranking officers and then later forcefully conscripting higher-ranking Tsarist Generals. Without these decisions, they would have lost the war and been crushed, a footnote in history. A Western leftist party is nowhere near that popular, and the idea of them having support in their nation's military is as unrealistic as monkeys flying. The CCP started out really small and would have been irrelevant as well, but by that time the Soviet Union had established itself and was willing to aid the Nationalists if they formed a union with the Communists. During this period, they would proselytize soldiers and peasants alike, creating an entire left-wing faction within the KMT, numbering in the hundreds of thousands from virtually nothing. This left-wing would become the basis of Mao's CCP. All of this was the result of pragmatism and political common sense.

>>2552204
>We are 'China shills,'(e know that China isn’t fully communist)
If you know this, why do you use this tactic? I can understand using "Mao Zedong Thought" as a basis with the intent to pivot towards a more effective socialist strategy later on, but holding up China instead of charting your own course seems self-defeating.

>>2552598
>work with
>won 23%
yes but were they party members?

you say to be normal i think that is good. you say to self-censor. so you dont talk about religion on specific politicians.

this is fine. when people bring up religion ambiguously refer to religious values that align with your politics and say something about regular peoples material needs. you dont need to say hail satan 666 tip your fedora and say god is dead. if people bring up a politician dont criticize him, offer a positive example of something you would like to see. people dont want to see a raging troll say fuck that guy he is a capitalist pig bring on the guillotine etc and if they do want to see that they wont respect it.

>>2551983
>watered down and incredibly chauvinist
why does it have to be this way? being normal doesn't mean agree with reactionaries.

>>2552021
>No Marxist should fetishize proletarianization or careerism
You cant find comradeship and pride in doing a good job and helping build a society together? You can't commiserate with colleges pushing papers that you wish your work was meaningful and helped people?
>It is an inevitable end, so instead of trying to normalize such behavior accept that what is progressive for thirdies and firsties is entirely different owing to the different stages of development.
What makes you think they are saying something else?

>>2552204
>You will not appeal to anyone outside a small handful of educated leftists with this rhetoric.
Well they wont anyway because theyre being defeatist and dont go outside. But inside /leftypol/ or in party recruiting you arent really trying to appeal to the masses. It seems like your advice is for individuals, not parties, and I would say that that sort of rhetoric probably wouldn't be in a party platform. But thats sort of what I mean, their outward facing posture should be like you say, normal. They should follow democratic centralism and propagandize according to the consensus and not inject their weird internet hyperfixations into public facing discourse.
>yet we do it to further our aims
Yeah that is what progressive is, well depending on your aims. Some people who are liberal think progressive means having the correct social ideas. I think it means bringing us closer to communism which is done through building productive forces and working class organizing. So working with people who want to build infrastructure is progressive, because it gets infrastructure built, even if the people doing it are corrupt. Your goal isn't getting the corrupt politician into the party, its getting schools or hospitals or whatever. Starting a union and bringing workers together to demonstrate collective power is progressive, even if the workers are backwards and reactionary. The goal isn't the workers joining the party, its creating a collective body that can exercise working class power.

>>2552366
>being pragmatic and compromising with social Democrats
compromising to complete an objective with a coalition group is not the same thing as compromising your principles or changing the party platform to get votes

https://www.marxists.org/archive/lenin/works/1920/lwc/ch06.htm
https://www.marxists.org/archive/lenin/works/1920/lwc/ch08.htm