Knowing the real history of American radical left-wing groups, this film is far too generous about their capabilities. In reality, they wouldn’t have killed any political figure higher than a superintendent, would likely have set off a bomb that killed a good portion of their members or been shot dead and arrested if they actually tried fighting against an armed resistance.
149 posts and 23 image replies omitted.>Paul Thomas Anderson is less revolutionary than Paul WS Anderson who has made countless Resident Evil movies about the evil of mega-corporations like Amazon that are destroying the world. His hot wife Milla Jovovich doing karate kicks to fight mutant dogs is true world-historic proletarian culture(Infrared Haz) "facts"
>>2539943>Pynchon's book Vineland is way harsher in his critique of the New Left>>2544451>The thesis of this thread [is that western left are decadent for some unexplained reason]Marxism 101: our material conditions determine consciousness.
The post-WWII imperialist privilege of these "labor aristocrat" baby boomer workers turned them into complacent liberals who were the vanguard of the neoliberal counter-revolution cheering individualism rather than collective struggle:
https://gnosticpulp.substack.com/p/we-are-pynchons-fail-sons-and-thot<While there were real revolutionary actions occurring in the sixties, such as the anti-Vietnam War effort and the black liberation movement, a fictional contingent of which (Black Afro-American Division (or BAAD)) visits the hippie counter culture who is occupying a campus where they have formed a sort of temporary autonomous zone known as The People’s Republic of Rock and Roll. PR3, in its search for allies, reaches out to BAAD who sends a small party to the seaside campus. BAAD’s arrival cuts a stark difference between themselves and the hippie students. Their discipline and commitment to the movement is immediately evident, for they arrive wearing matching uniforms of “Shiny black Vietnam boots, black-on-black camo fatigues, and velvet-black berets with off-black wide-point stars on them” (230).<BAAD enters into a long debate with the students, who they brush off as “children of the surfing class” (230), that is to say, unserious. The New Deal, one suspects, was quite purposefully not for everyone. It successfully played on race divisions, a favorite move by the good ol’ US of A, by elevating the white working class to a new level of comfort and security, while leaving everyone else to fend for themselves.<BAAD sees the students as cos-players rather than revolutionaries. They laugh off the idea that they are on the same side, saying “The Man’s gun don’t have no blond option on it” (231), and in the end they leave with the keys to a Porsche 911, given over by Rex, one of the most outspoken members of PR3, in a desperate effort to prove his radicality.>>2545100>please ignore the fascist regimes killing everyone left of liberals and the decades of infiltration and propaganda from state actorsthat's literally what Pynchon's book is about!
>>2540430>Uwe Bollevery Hollywood gore and violence-normalization psyop creator like Quentin Tarantino and Sam Raimi is a Zionist or funded by Zionists. These degenerates are GLEEFUL at the idea of (sexual) violence and broadcast it on all forms of media to indoctrinate young people.
Please stop normalizing fascist culture and start rejecting Zionist psyops
>>2539992>de omnibus dubitandum (Marx’s credo)Apparently Finkelstein never stopped being an idealist pseudo-intellectual radlib? He still is a lecturing pseud who rejects historical materialism for his preferred PMC gibberish that is laughably out of touch with the proletariat. Imagine being such a shithead that you feel betrayed that Chinese people want clean water and hospitals more than some childish utopianism about doing "friendly sports" and not having to lock things up lmao
>>2553559>Privileged upper middle class academic former liberal activist whose family rose up by directly aiming their guns at the proletariat shilling for nationalism and telling you how heckin privileged you are as a poor person tens of thousands in debt because you live in the West (POV: the person your arguing with literally grew up rich and is still rich)Funny as fuck to confirm you are a liberal after that gay standpoint shit
>>2553552There's some very weird overcompensation for the historical chauvinism here. In particular, you have the whole Settlers and Maoist Third-Worldist stuff which paints every (white?) worker in the imperial core as an exploiter. Settler-colonialism and imperial spoils are real but the whole history of whiteness and the labor aristocracy as a structure is something that has a history and whiteness is very temporary and fragile. So specifically in the USA, you have settler land-grabs, then you have imperial spoils and the New Deal and it is really around the 1970s and neoliberalism that the whole structure really starts to breakdown as jobs are outsourced. The trouble is that some people think we're still in the 1950s and drastically overcompensate.
>>2547759Jesus. Yeah I've seen some weirdos in the org but its my first time hearing about that.
>>2553718A Western leftist calling anyone a 'liberal' is funny, throughout my posts when did I ever advocate for liberal democracy and capitalism? we don't advocate for democracy, we know it doesn't exist here and is more of a concept. If we were naive idiots like a certain demographic, we would make a big show about how we're going to tear the system down and get arrested, tortured, and killed while our loved ones are buried in ditches. We build real political power, as small as it can be in the most difficult positions.
But I will make one thing clear, when liberal democracy does fall and the world is ruled by strongman caudillos, China will work with them, even if those government are basically Fascist and are openly removing an ethnic group or two and we have learned to accept living under that. It's not easy, but when true violence happens you will become like us, whether you like it or not.
>>2553718like intersectionality, standpoint theory is a recuperation of marxism. marxism is standpoint theory from the perspective of the universal class in capitalism, the proletariat. and intersectionality was originally that identity is reflected through the prism of class. you are the liberal for ceding ground to them
>>2554099So you want people to be 'pragmatic' i.e., opportunistic third-positionists with broad ideologies that are just some mix of socialism and nationalism?
>>2554099>>2555505In inter-imperialist war and politics, communists should fight for revolutionary defeatism. The urban workers should fight against the Democrats and the rural workers should fight against the Republicans.
>>2553552>seem to be the exact opposite of chauvinistici wish they were, but this has never applied to them from what i've seen. whether it's supporting an irrelevant "pure theory" movement of 3,5 people that has existed for 2 weeks best or supporting popular reactionaries, leftcom style "long live the butcher hitler" done unironically they were/are chauvinists through and through
>>2544451>>2545051>>2551061>>2550192For whatever weird reasons, communism tends to appeal to social outcasts in the West. It's simply the reality that communism is popular among the weirdos and not popular among normal people. It's sort of like lumpenprole and lumpenbourg but not in an organised crime sense. Anyhow the reality is that the lumpen left must engage in class suicide. It's no different than how the petty-bourgeoisie in the periphery must commit to class suicide. To an extent, it's the opposite of the Amilcar Cabral stuff.
>>2557084This is just a consequence of western culture’s violent hatred of the proletariat; most of the “weird commie outcasts” are actually just poor
>>2557118>most of the “weird commie outcasts” are actually just poorMy friend, the new left has been dominating academia since the 1970s. I'm pretty sure the problem isn't that Western communists are "poor"
>>2557710I didn’t say anything false, New Left political ideologies and third-worldism have dominated Western social sciences, and they’ve produced exactly the kind of neurotic men those ideologies would be expected to produce
>>2567634>A protest of 7 million wine moms…100% true. Making it a meme doesn't make it wrong.
>>2567634>Did you hear that speech from Jill Stein? Me neither.what dat mean
>>2540833truth nuke
>>2541117not an argument
yes people need to listen to michael s judge deaths corner.
there was a really nice academic looking breakdown of i think gravitys rainbow but i cant find it among all the bs literary "themes" analysis
It's a good movie, their anarchist org kinda sucks
The should have included Greenwich Village townhouse explosion
>The Weather Underground had been formed from the remnants of Students for a Democratic Society in June 1969, by about a hundred activists who had come to believe that armed struggle was necessary to reform American society. At that meeting, the Weathermen, who had taken their original name from the line "You don't need a weatherman to know which way the wind blows" in Bob Dylan's 1965 song "Subterranean Homesick Blues" had discussed what actions they might take, and against what targets. The consensus was that the police and the military were legitimate targets, representing the urban racism that their allies the Black Panthers most strongly opposed, and the Vietnam War. Members present recall that while the topic of whether their actions would necessarily involve taking life was largely avoided, beyond general agreement that they should not do so indiscriminately, their actions would likely kill police officers and military personnel.
>The Weathermen purchased a large quantity of dynamite and a number of electric fuses for $60 ($500 in 2024) in New Hampshire in early March. After a meeting they designated three targets, including a noncommissioned officers' dance at Fort Dix, which was due to take place on March 6. It was reported that "arguments went on day and night" in the townhouse, with Kathy Boudin advocating that they kill as many people as possible with anti-personnel bombs. Diana Oughton reportedly had misgivings, although others present say she never showed them. Wilkerson wrote later that she felt powerless to stop what was going on in her father's house. Theodore Gold threatened to kill one close friend after he had a breakdown over the plan at one gathering.
>None of the Weathermen had experience with explosives, and Robbins and Wilkerson did not even understand the basics of electricity. They worked up a simple timer and trigger device that lacked any safety features, and packed the dynamite with sharp roofing nails. Robbins was unwilling to deviate from the way he had been told to build the bomb, and unwilling to listen to suggestions from anyone else.
>Robbins had chosen the dance at Fort Dix as their target; other reports indicate that only some were intended for the dance, with the rest to be detonated inside the administration building at Columbia University. The morning of March 6, he and Oughton were making final preparations in the same subbasement where James Wilkerson restored furniture, while Boudin and Wilkerson, both of whom were due to appear in court in Chicago a few days later over assault charges against them from the Days of Rage, were upstairs cleaning the house in preparation for Wilkerson's parents' return that evening. Other members were preparing their disguises for that night.
>Shortly before noon, Gold left to get some cotton balls Robbins needed, according to Wilkerson. She began ironing a sheet and heard Boudin beginning to shower upstairs. A few minutes later, she heard a dull roar from the basement and watched as the carpeted floor broke in several places beneath her, letting through a red glow as shards of broken wood and plaster erupted from it. After a second explosion, the floor collapsed and Wilkerson recalls nothing for a while afterwards.
>Oughton and Robbins were killed by the blast. Gold was returning to the townhouse and was crushed by the collapsing facade. Wilkerson regained awareness and heard Boudin nearby on the edge of what was now a crater in the basement; the two were able to link hands and escape just as a fire built up behind them. Just after they got out, the fire built up into another explosion, blowing out the wall of Hoffman's house and knocking his desk into the crater.
>The Weather Underground's total membership declined by two-thirds in the aftermath of the explosion and it lost much of its support. In May, after the remaining members gathered in San Francisco to confer, Bernadine Dohrn issued a statement in the name of the group declaring war on America, warning that they would "attack a symbol or institution of American injustice" within the next two weeks, and confirming that Gold, Oughton and Robbins had been among its membership. The statement named Robbins as the third body and described Gold, Oughton, and Robbins as revolutionaries "no longer on the move".
>>2539918the black woman power thing has also been super cringe as black nationalism hasnt been progressive or relevant for 50 years.
>>2573037It's not like any other strain of Western left-wing radicalism has been successful. This
>>2572992 the peak of their violence, a badly made bomb that gor their own members killed, and they all follow the same patterns, regardless of their ideology or whatever queenr group or racial identity they claim.
>>2550192>>2550816pvre vnfiltered trvkivm
>>2539918The films portrayal of the "new left" is kinda shit. We know nothing about their ideology other than freeing migrants. They are well organized but no org in the west in anywhere near that.
I don't think PTA is a revolutionary of any sorts. He had his best bud Johnny Greenwood do the score. That dude is a hardcore Zionist and his wife is a baby killer.
My brother read the original book and he said it made more sense. They were actively fighting against the drug war and his ex gf and "daughter" ultimately side with the feds. It's an allegory for the hippies voting for Reagan.
>>2551344he is literally me
>>2551061As a western leftist I agree.
I'm a bit of a weirdo but I do alright, I have a job and a girlfriend.
However some of the people I organize with make me look like a Chad. It's mostly the ones that aren't well read, radlibs obsessed with idpol.
>>2577773>>2577792Like I said, I know there are normal guys amongst you, and I’m not saying you should have false hope, but as capitalism falls, I know the more naive among your colleagues will either mature and leave and your ranks will be filled with more normal and competent people
>>2539975I think Mao and Nixon raping Vietnam together also contributed
>>2550192State opression doesn't make you right, martyr.
This movie was dogshit, a truly embarrassing vanity project for Decaprio.
>>2577903Funnily enough, the Falangists ended up becoming a somewhat pro-Soviet RW faction in the West. Their ideology was essentially centered around opposing everything the US supported. There was even a funny incident where Falangists attended World Youth Day in Cuba on a Soviet ship. They actually got along with the Yugoslav Partisans and sang The Internationale with everyone before singing Cara al Sol (the Falangist anthem). At that point, Castro reportedly said something along the lines of:
>"Comrades! I know what you're up to!"They then gave him a signed copy of José Antonio Primo de Rivera's speeches. Supposedly, Castro had some respect for Jose Antonio as a nationalist (and Che similarly felt the same about Juan Peron)
>>2553605>"Nooooo! You can't enjoy the gory action movies because they're propaganda that normalize violence and Zionism!"Shit like this is why I didn't enjoy talking with my film snob friend when he was in his leftie phase. Stop doing this shit
>Chinese people want clean water and hospitals
And short term opening up made alot of areas have less of those , from the 80s to the 2000s it was a wealth transfer from the inner provinces to the coast only relatively recently did China start funneling wealth into inner areas to bring them to a higher standard of living, read the battle for Chinas past to see the serious problems of the deng reforms.
>American left-wing
oxymoron alert
>>2542218>CPUSAanon does not like self-criticismimagine my shock
>>2547710Certified Autism Score moment
Is it worth watching? The start was so cringe I got tired of it.
>>2596680The cringe is on purpose. It's lampooning the left, it's supposed to be funny. I think that guy who read the book is probably right that he probably downgraded the original book which was also lampooning the left.
>>2596684What does lampooning mean please
>>2550192>>2550894Is there anything we Americans can do to help? I at least wanna try to make things better for people.
>>2596684>it's supposed to be funnyI dont find cringe shit funny. Just uncomfortable.
>>2596713Well that's been one of the most popular forms of humor for the last 20 or 30 years. Awkward humor, mumblecore, etc. I feel the same way, but the movie didn't bother me like that, I still laughed because the left is really that ridiculous.
>>2550192How popular is Marxism among the Pakistani youth, comrade?
>>2547759What’s the difference between being in a polycule and a situationship at that point, besides a bunch of other people know about it?
>>2596700The same advice the Vietnamese gave to the Weather Underground, try to organize and send letters to your congressmen, donate some money if you can to orgs you think are valid and have good track records. If some of you are really desperate to fight, you can find a conflict looking for volunteers, just get fit before that, because otherwise you’ll be wasting everybody’s time.
>>2596717No one supports Marxism proper, except for a handful of extremely minor political groups. The mood here is cynical, as our Chief of the Army gave himself a position from which he can never be removed and now has complete power over the Army, Navy, and Air Force, so a dictator in all but name, though there is still a sham democracy. But as I said, the hope is China. Chinese solar panels are now used by around 25% of the country, people here trust China more than the government, and there is a widespread view that the “China system” (as laypeople understand it) will be better than anything we’ve had before.
>>2594537I disagree somewhat with his take, but he's not wrong. Films have normalized a lot of disturbing behavior. but I’d say it’s less about action movies and more the cruelty in popular comedies and horror films, where we often see scenes of child distress or women being graphically and violently murdered or tortured. I do think it’s more of a director’s fetish, and I believe people on the left should be calling this out more.
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