/leftypol/ - Leftist Politically Incorrect

Indigenous societies are far less structured. Communism innately abolished structure left over from bourgeois-capitalist societies.

The left-wing racism of the "noble savage" is very real. It's picking and choosing things to make it sound like they were just their own liberal ideology. They do this to "absolve" themselves of their "original sin" of being white so they can start reforming history to fit their vision, guilt-free. It's pure ideology.

As for your statement of moving forward in time, there is a Marxist concept, borrowed from Hegel, called "Aufhebung" (which is translated as "abolish" in most texts) which can be very roughly described as the old showing itself in the new, just in a higher form. It has a dual meaning of abolishing but also preserving, like the proletariat abolishing capital but preserving the means of production.

As for gender, actual gender theory isn't the same as this idolization of ancient cultures that libs practice. Judith Butler's theory of it (idk their personal politics and idc) as a social performance would necessitate that it would evolve with the dissolvement of the current social relations that define our lives. For example, most "male" traits are about accumulating things like hustles and sexual conquests or just engaging in wage labor.

The opposite side of it are the neo-Kantians who believe in some hidden, innate transcendentalism inside every individual, independent of society (egoists as the most annoying example). It's pretty demonstrably wrong, especially in some of the culture and entertainment around it. Take the idea of the "egg crack" meaning the release of your "true" autonomy, even though it's just jumping to another gender performance that is constructed socially. That movie "I Saw the TV Glow" was particularly annoying about this. Unfortunately, this seems to be the most popular ideology because when people don't do critical thinking and study, they're just stuck in the liberal, ideological bubble and so all their theories become highly individualized, ignoring the social cause.

Because the western left is fundamentally based on ecofascism as one of its core commandments, regression to primitive Stone Age tribalism for them is worth the deaths of 99.9% of the population because having sustainable food supplies is “authoritarianism”

>>2540367
>Take the idea of the "egg crack" meaning the release of your "true" autonomy
It is not supposed to be "true" in any essentialist sense (some people obviously use it as such, but whatever), but rather finding something that feels more authentic, makes them feel better if you wont to boil it down to minimum.

>>2540333
because when reactionaries say that communism failed because of china, mao, xijing, soviet russia, venezuela, they can point and say yes! we agree, that wasn't socialism. they can look into the past and create totally ficitonal utopias based on primitive societies, and because they were in the past, and not so docuemtned they can make up a lot of shit

>>2540367
It’s more like, they study anthropology to show that capitalist cultural norms aren’t a product of “logic” but of rigidly enforced structure. Communism is about the abolition of structure.

>>2540384
Anarchist detected

>>2540333
Orientalism isn't new, it has a long and rich history of british people and other europeans gushing about how cool Mahabharata is and how deep it all is, man! SJWs are just their descendants who keep it going, much like every other part of the political scene. Nazis got their symbol and racial name from India, ffs.
What you need to understand is that SJWs are liberal, there is not a single communist bone in their body. They use the word "socialism" as a crow uses shiny objects, it's not even a decoration to them. That's also what they do with native societies, there is no thought involved there. They have no fucking idea about "material conditions", they just want the solarpunk picture from pinterest they liked and having a third gender is just a quirky thing to add into the lore dump.

>>2540367
I admire the effort to engage these culture wars. Everything I see is idpol except people dying from hunger, disease and war.

>Noble savage trope aside
You do realize that ever speaking positively about indigenous societies isn‘t automatically the „noble savage myth“, right? It pertains to the belief of indigenous societies having been perfect or are morally innocent. Reciting positive qualities their societies isn‘t automatically that.

>>2540602
There is no primitive communist. These societies are just backwards reactionary.

>>2540606
I made no mention of the existence of primitive communism.

>>2540497
I think SJWs just dislike “capitalism” because they see it as another oppressive hierarchy, they simply have no idea on what to truly replace it with.

I seriously believe Engels’ Socialism: Utopian and Scientific should be read by every single one of them.

If you read SJW in the first sentence of a post prepare yourself to see an epic fight against strawmen.

>>2540716
SJWs seem to well under capitalism. The whole liberal social justice project was to create bourgeoisie out of various minorities. If any they part of culture ecosystem of modern capitalism.

>>2540357
>>2540384
Idealism. Pure idealism.

what a hyperspecific strawman argument and utter waste of time this thread was

>>2540357
On what basis will a future socialism have the same material conditions as fucking PRIMTIVE tribal peoples, idiot?

>>2540333
Two issues. First: I can't cite anything off hand but Marx and Lenin sometimes spoke of old things returning with further development like ancient democracy or communal property except of course they wouldn't be exactly the same more like an echo. Second: As far as I know the radlib types misinterpret tribal gender models and two spirit was made up by some academic in the 90s. Seems to me most "third genders" is just a role for effeminate males which I don't think gender activists would like very much.

Anyway we should embrace some hunter-gatherer culture like singing and dancing around fires and wearing animal masks and honesatly who needs to count over seven there's way too many numbers please get rid of them thank you.

postmodern thinkers reject the concept of linear history so attempt to locate emancipation in the particularity of culture

>>2541241
you do realise that marx and engels were radical modernists who didnt think civilisation is "degenerate" the same way you do, right?

>>2541256
Marx and Engels were wrong, simple as

>>2540333
> Why do PoMo liberals and SJWs always invoke indigenous/tribal societies when talking about what the culture under a future communism would look like?
Because they aren’t communists, and can’t imagine liberation from this society by transcending it
> Noble savage trope aside, are they really this ignorant in thinking the superstructure of a future socialism would adopt these aspects?
They arguably aren’t thinking about socialism at all but neither are 90% of self-described Marxists who are usually one of three types of 20th Century fanboy (socdem, stalinist, trot)

>>2541432
Republican governments existed during dlavery therefore we keep absolute monarchies into communism makes sense, you can never ever reimplement an idea from the past without the past’s baggage very dialectical very smart

>>2541250
This.

>>2540367
>Judith Butler's theory of it (idk their personal politics and idc) as a social performance would necessitate that it would evolve with the dissolvement of the current social relations that define our lives. For example, most "male" traits are about accumulating things like hustles and sexual conquests or just engaging in wage labor.
actual TRVKE. it's genuinely a shame that they are the one most associated with "gender studies pomo gibberish" forced memes both in anti-idpol left circles and among reactionaries of all kinds regardless of economical position (mostly among libs)

>Socialism is about going FORWARDS in time, not backwards.
>I would really love to understand the logic here aside from the usual “muh deconstruction of social norms” bullshit.
Going forward is deconstructing the previous spooks and establishing a better base–which serves to the former as much as the former serves to the latter–in a loop.

>>2540333
Why wouldn’t communism simply be a return to tribal structures?

>>2542138
how exactly would you try to undo everything that came after tribal society stage

>>2540333
Because the imperial core outsources a lot of production to the periphery, contradictions are largely in the superstructure. SJWs just take a very reactionary approach to criticizing the superstructure.

> Socialism is about going FORWARDS in time, not backwards

That doesn't mean anything

You're right about the rest but I don't think i'd like you

The funny thing to me seething about anti vax or anti science from right wingers then defending all this bs tribal rituals and fake treatments. My family does a bunch of voodoo type stuff and it's all bullshit no one should defend it. But plenty of liberals will cause they are brown and special

>>2542214
Idk man a bit of time with a citronella candle and a tarot reading calmed me down after getting my vax. I think the shamanism can be good aftercare after the proper scientific care.

>>2542247
Tyler Oliviera is a schmuck.

Daily reminder that the "Noble savage myth" is a myth in itself popularized by a 19th century white supremacist, John Crawfurd, to push 'race science' and the view of indigenous peoples as inherently inferior

>>2542258
The savages were indeed generally pretty fucking noble compared to the "civilized" crackers crashing in, raping, looting, enslaving and genociding them.

>>2540333
Very bizarre strawman you cooked up.
Nothing of what you're talking about has anything to do with communism or anything proposed as a "future communism". You just took some random Twitter/tumblr posts and mixed them into a slurry of nonsense.

>>2542214
>le both sides!
being anti-vax is 10000x worse than any new age or alternative medicine stuff liberal wine moms are into
at least some old plant-based remedies end up being legit and turned into "modern medicine" in more concentrated forms
anti-vax is a genuinely genocidal ideology and should be treated as such

>>2541805
Yeah Butler was right about that.

PoMo dick in yo ass lil faggot

stop bumpin this thread

>>2542258
I thought that myth was started by Rousseau?

>>2540333
>Why do PoMo liberals and SJWs always
they appropriate communist language and neutralize it. its called recuperation.

communists dont say we should go back, they are making two arguments. the current organization is not human nature: proof is that it was different before. second is that things dialectically repeat at a higher level, sublation doesn't mean repetition of the identical, but recognition of identity through difference, aka its about the journey not the destination. the act of existing and the nature of time fundamentally changes the thing, preserving the identity of the concept in a way that isn't possible without the experience of duration. reality matter in motion, in constant flux, and not only can you not step in the same river twice, you also are not the same the second time around. its not something that can be intellectually theorized, thats not that same thing, it can only happen through practical action. thinking about stuff doesn't change things, but doing things must change thinking

>>2540409
>Communism is about the abolition of structure.
<ANAARCHSIST!!!
We call communism the real movement which abolishes the present state of things. -Karl Marx, famous anarchist

>>2542415
So communism doesn't have a structure? Come on.

Isn’t postmodernism just Kant? I’m confused.

>>2542482
nah. :^)

The centralization of human civilization and its power structures has devalued human life, robbed us of our dignity and agency, turned autonomous workers into slaves, alienated people from each other, wasted enormous resources, permanently damaged the environment, waged wars that killed hundreds of millions of people, and will quite possibly destroy every living thing on this planet someday with nuclear weapons or something even worse.

In a world of small decentralized tribes or villages, life and death still mean something, people control their own destiny, everyone knows each other and has a relationship to each other and to their community, everyone's voice is heard, there's no "superfluous population" that must be systemically criminalized and brutalized and exterminated, war is on a much smaller scale with less collateral damage and destruction to the planet, instead of industrial automated mass production poisoning the air and water and using enormous energy you have craftsmen who make things by hand for their local community, one of kind things made with painstaking care that are better than any piece of shit you could get at any department store, direct democracy is possible, socialism or communism or anarchism are possible, the scale of society is small enough that everything is manageable by the people without any need for representatives or hierachy of any kind.

>>2542250
For just reporting as it is? Did he make him eat the poop or what?

>>2543539
So how does humanity go back to tribal living, idiot?

the inevitable and imminent global thermonuclear war, presumably

Still better than the bible at the MAGA

>>2544318
>go back
the only way out is through

>>2544318

The off-the-grid RV/van/shantytown/trailer park intentional community will gradually become less of a fringe weirdo thing and more of a mainstream lifestyle choice that a significant percentage of the population decide to make when the cost of living in cities is no longer worth the benefits it provides, especially as technology continues to develop and become become less dependent on city infrastructure for things like electricity, water, etc. while industrial capitalist society continues to get worse for everyone except for the affluent.

>>2540333
>PoMo liberals and SJWs
Don't forget the anarchists.