/leftypol/ - Leftist Politically Incorrect

>>2552864
People gravitate towards centralized government, just like they gravitate towards big hubs of general activity.
Asking for decentralization is more forced than anything.

>We need a society of people working and talking to each other
That is the issue with decentralization.
It hinders communication.
You could split a society into numerous languages and they people would lack communication; bring them under a standardized language, communication is easier, but that requires centralism.

China, Rome, and other civilizations had more centralized authority and they were successful. Modernity has more standardization and central authority and those regimes are doing fine (even if they aren't the most stable). It isn't only the longevity of a regime that counts, but what it does in that span of time that counts also.

>>2552915
No they don’t. Literally every centralized authority has always and explicitly been spawned by force not compliance and understandably that same forced centralization is what made such leadership fundamentally unstable. USSR faced it, literally every empire faced it, british fascist era faced if, ᴉuᴉlossnW faced it, a lot of dictatorships have faced it in recent decades, I don’t have to keep going on this list. It’s just not stable because it fails to account for the reality that central authority is far more limited in scale and stability than decentralized but generalized oversight of the many.

>>2552919
>Literally every centralized authority has always and explicitly been spawned by force not compliance
That's the map of the world.
All the borders of any political entity around the world is drawn by guns pointed at each other and their reluctance to RISK any wounds.
The rule of one class over another is also upheld by violence and force.

>>2552918
>china
>a successful example of centralized authority
Have you read anything about how politically unstable and violent Chinese history is?
>rome
Moderately less shitty example if not for the fact that its existence was in a near constant state of internal collapse. Seriously, do people just look at Caesar and forget that most Roman emperors barely remained longer than a few months if not weeks in power before some asshole would overthrow them?
>other civilizations
The Holy Roman Empire was notorious for internal wars and civil wars. Feudal Europe as a fractured hellhole run by barons and various warlords competing over land while the church remained a central authority only known for tithes, scandals, and outright lying to people as it is now. MENA wasn’t faring much better considering how many internal collapses would unfold without a Muslim expansion to drive and force some level of internal cohesion to mask how bad things were getting for even political leaders in it.

>>2552927
What are your samples of decentralized authority?

>>2552931
Canada,
not Tanzania but much of southern and central Africa,
china (weird example I know but the CPC is the largest party just by headcount and a lot of bureacatic work is delegates to village and town leaders anyways. Xi does surprisingly little given his role)
Ghana

<countries I’m not putting on this list
I would’ve put Thailand but they’re not that decentralized yet
I want to put the Nordic states but they’re way too small and also using them as examples feels like cheating at this question

>>2552919
oh yeah the famous stability of feudal or warlord states constant clusterfucks vs big empires that could keep internal peace for centuries

>>2552864
>There is no single case of political leadership
I found our problem. Less heroic individualism more collective action.

>>2553030
you will never be a technocrat

>>2552864
What you're talking about exists even in centralized organizations. Never in any centralized command structure has/does/can the top leadership tell every lower body the minutia of every single task they need to carry out, and then monitor and enforce those tasks. What centralization is is a division of labor in a way that also fosters coordinated action. The leadership's job is twofold: determine the general strategy to follow, the immediate goals, and what sorts of methods to to follow to achieve the goals, and secondly to communicate this singular message to a variety of smaller bodies whose job it is to apply this unified message. They then need to use their brains too and figure out what that means in practice, for their specific conditions and means. They might all do things slightly differently, with different results, but the beauty of the system is that more or less everyone is moving in the same direction, towards the same goals. If more coordination is needed, it can be set up, either top-down or bottom-up. A tertiary role of leadership is to gather feedback and results from the lower bodies and assess if their directives have been successful or not and why, and then either change direction, or give more refined and granular direction, facilitate coordination, and so on. That's what good leadership does, at least.

>>2552927
>Have you read anything about how politically unstable and violent Chinese history is?
China was quite stable for most of its history, people just read about the civil wars and forget that major wars in China only happened every century or two on average, which is much better than pretty much anywhere else in the world.

Can someone explain to me like I'm retarded why anyone cares about debating these endless discussions on abstract ideas of control???? Like I literally could not give less of a shit about authority/liberty/freedom/power/centralisation/decentralisation/hirearchy/

It all just sounds like whishy washy glittering generality, platitudes, and rhetoric, like does any of this actually matter in material reality????????????????????????? or am I actually fully retarded.

>>2554116
simply put, without a grand narrative, you're fucked when it comes building a coherent movement since people need to believe in something, and marxist believe in reason so you have to constantly argue your positions, it has to do with the jewish and hegelian tradition (i am not making an accusation of any kind, just stating a fact)

Centralization and working with local leaders is not mutually exclusive.
See Cuba.