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/leftypol/ - Leftist Politically Incorrect

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Revolution almost always requires a brutal civil war so that a new society emerges from it. But the ideal of a new society never emerges immadietly after. We see it with the french revolution, and then the russian revolution. The american revolution seems like an exemption from this. Why is that?

Men make their own history, but they do not make it as they please; they do not make it under self-selected circumstances, but under circumstances existing already, given and transmitted from the past.

>>2553638

Revolution in society is almost never a revolution. It's almost always evolution. Stalinist Russia is just the tsar, but better. It's not a complete break.

>>2553637
>The american revolution seems like an exemption from this.
I don't think so.

All revolutions are partly civil wars, every single one including the american one. It was literally a piece of the british empire breaking off dummy. Their independence war was a civil war

>>2553645
>>2553642

I did not say that america had no civil war

Just that the system of gouvernance was not more authoritarian than under colonial rule. In that sense, it was a success.

>>2553637
the fuck are you trying to say, comrade

>>2553648
You mean no revolutionary dictator who then devours the children of the revolution? I mean, Washington came kinda close, they wanted to make him king after all. But he didn't even really wanna be president, just sit on his farmstead and watch his slaves toil the land. Some people argue it was his personality that caused him not to centralize power and that might very well be, but it always seemed like a bit of a copout answer to me. There's probably more materialist reasons for the success of the american revolution. It being far away from their previous rules, a relatively new country with lots of space and possibilities, it could be many different things

>>2553654

I think if you have monarchs in your country, it's almost impossible to completely remove yourself from it. Indepedence is easier.

>>2553637
>Revolution requires a brutal civil war
Anyone else notice how this has never ever ever led to socialism?
<Inb4 capitalism becomes socialism once your manager’s title is “People’s Democratic Supervisory Specialist” and not just “Boss”

>>2553716

I have been thinking that americas check of balances could have been beneficial to the young Soviet Union.

>Revolution almost always requires a brutal civil war so that a new society emerges from it. But the ideal of a new society never emerges immadietly after. We see it with the french revolution, and then the russian revolution. The american revolution seems like an exemption from this. Why is that?

Free Real estate.

The constant expansion West could serve as a great pressure release valve. Yeah, you could agitate and risk getting murdered for the ideals of a better society in, say, Boston… orrrr you could head West, young man. Get yourself a nice fertile plot of land or pan for gold or work the fur trade. Colonization opened up a massive potential for social advancement that wouldn't really exist in overcrowded metropoles in Europe.

There isn't much of a question of "what is to be done" or executing loyalists en masse or what have you because the loyalists could just fuck off to Canada and the Patriots who could risk turning on the revolution could be bribed with further expansion. The irony of the American Revolution being that while taxes did go up higher than they were under the crown, the Ohio River Valley was open up to expansion and exploitation; a trade off that meant all these rich lands could be cultivated and improve the standard of living for the colonists who'd settle there.

>>2553637
The U.S papered over their contradictions by pointing everyone west and telling them there was free land for anyone that can take it. Also there was rebellions after the revolution. Like the whisky rebellion, they were quickly slaughtered though by George Washington himself.

>>2553654
The materialist reason is that it wasn't a revolution. There was no real change in the socioeconomic power structure and so it didn't suffer from the kind of instability, foreign intervention, or other problems that characterize actual social revolutions.

>>2553738
>check of balances
Ignoring the misspelling/mondegreen, lmao, imagine actually believing this is a real thing, and ALSO that the United States had/has it while the Soviet Union inexplicably did not, somehow.

>>2554055
You're probably correct, it being a mere political revolution that didn't really change much about the social fabric, nor was it meant to, is the main reason for its "success" as compared to actual revolutions

>>2554080
>while the Soviet Union inexplicably did not, somehow.
there were show trials and shit, dawg

>>2553641
Revolution comes from revolve or a cycle, a spin, it changes nothing, a cycle always leads back to where it started. We need liquidation of all of the past and creation of a new present global year zero +∞↗


>>2554467
America, nor any country which claims to have "checks and balances" has ever had a show trial, ever.

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>>2554479
>using etymology to decide how a word is actually used in practice.

dinosaur means terrible lizard in greek, but dinosaurs are not lizards

>The american revolution seems like an exemption from this. Why is that?

Because Americans have been loudly and aggressively insisting that their revolution was successful and their empire will never collapse, but it will. Just give it some time.

>>2554487
>>2554579

democratic centralism and the erasure of the councils is a one party dictatorship

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>>2554930
oh no. not a one party proletarian dictatorship. it is much more democratic to have multiple bourgeois parties pretending to compete while cooperating to fuck over workers.

>>2554943

When the Soviet Union banned multiple factions in the early 20s, a opposite party could have been a safety net

Even today, at least having a second party in the US is better than just one. Not by a lot. Just a tiny bit.

>>2554091
Bourgeois revolutions rarely change much beyond the political system because they typically happen when the rising bourgeoisie has already become the economically dominant class and main coordinators of wealth production, held back only by the reactionary privileges of a fully parasitic and non-contributing aristocracy
Like, France was already dominated by capitalist manufacture before the revolution that allowed the bourgeoisie to fully oversee the political system

In fact the reason for the utter failure of socialists again and again rests in the lack of constructed socialist relations able to burst capitalist relations, yet the rapid transformation of capitalist relations into socialist relations throughout all the mediations of this system (and the ways they reproduce mediations of previous social control systems) is likely the only way to prevent capital from reasserting itself

>>2554945
>>2554945
>Even today, at least having a second party in the US is better than just one. Not by a lot. Just a tiny bit.
Why do you believe this? Are you legitimately retarded? The party form isn't trans-historical, it has not always existed and it will not always exist.

>>2555229

how do you propose the soviet communist party woudn't have disintergrated?

unless you are a MLoid

>>2553637
With AI powered mass surveillance the age of revolutions is over.

How come socialists are like "multiparty democracy is the perfect system to solidify capitalist rule wow they're so clever" but then they don't implement their own multiparty democracy to solidify their rule.

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>>2555357
We already did

>>2555364
But they lost to treatlerism.


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