/leftypol/ - Leftist Politically Incorrect

Proletarian nation was a term used by 20th century Soviet Marxist intellectuals such as Lev Preobrazhensky to refer to the Soviet Union and other nations that they regarded as being productive, morally vigorous, and inclined to bold action, which they considered to be characteristics associated with the proletariat. Preobrazhensky admired revolutionary proletarian movements such as bolshevism for their tactics, although he opposed their goals, and he wanted to inspire a radical social-democratic movement that would use similar tactics in service of different goals: a movement that would advocate war communism in place of class revolution, while maintaining the same methods of "maximum cohesion, concentration of forces, iron discipline and utter ruthlessness. Preobrazhensky associated the concept of proletariat with the economic function of production, arguing that all producers are in a moral sense proletarian (not only the workers, but also productive owners and entrepreneurs), and he believed that all producers should be at the forefront of a new imperialist proletarian nation.

>>2562383
Two of these things are not like the other, two of these things are christian shitholes.

I was thinking about making a thread on this but this is similar enough I feel, but what do you anons think about the odds of survival the current governments these countries have? Seeing the Ba'athist gov in Syria fall in such an unexpected manner shocked me, as I'm sure it did many others. Now when I think of these countries, I think a lot don't stand a chance. The way I see it, Cuba, Nicaragua, and Iran will have a regime change in this century. The Islamic government in Iran probably won't last to 2050. And countries like Nicaragua or Cuba could so be easily toppled through invasion or color revolutions by the US, I don't see them surviving either.

uncritical support fails the ruthless criticism of all that exists

but no support at all fails the real movement to abolish the current state of thing

therefore ruthlessly critical support for the enemy of my enemy, who is only my temporary friend

>>2562885
>therefore ruthlessly critical support for the enemy of my enemy, who is only my temporary friend
realpolitik pilled

>>2562824
Only PRC is immune to regime change in the near future unless something crazy happens.

Syria is not that surprising in hindsight. Economy was completely decimated (turns out sanctions work sometimes), the state was rotten with corruption, and even Assad's closest allies were becoming frustrated with him. The majority of his people hated him and you need some level of public support no matter how tight you're running your regime.

I hope they make it but unfortunately Venezuela could go any day for similar reasons.

based

>>2562383
Let me guess, you come from a first world country

Uncritical support for:

<Social Democracy
<Nation Bolshevism
<State Capitalism
<Chinese Triad operated casino resorts and subsistence farming
<Americophilic Market Socialism
<Inept Social Democracy

Long live the people's wholesome bourgeoisie!
Long live the people's proletarian landlords!
Long live the people's commodity production and capital accumulation!
All people to the people's billionaires and CEOs (Marxist pioneers on the economic front)!!

>>2563041
>Chinese Triad operated casino resorts
might as well then claim uncritical support for thailand and myanmar as 2 other countries of golden triangle, cambodia is outside of it but is also engaged

>>2563041
Yes, down with the empire

>Republic of Cuba
Sure
>Democratic People’s Republic of Korea
No. Just critical support
>People’s Republic of China
No. If they start being socialist then they can get my support.
>Lao People’s Democratic Republic
I'm not well versed on their history but considering how no one talks about their nation I guess they have abandoned socialism
>Socialist Republic of Vietnam
They're very good friends with Pissrael.
>Bolivarian Republic of Venezuela
Critical support in their fight against the Amerikkkan state right now.

>>2562922
>Only PRC is immune to regime change in the near future unless something crazy happens.
You forgot The DPRK.

>>2563041
friendly reminder that all nafoids must hang

>>2563088
Why do you hate asian people so much anon?

>>2563098
>Le epic Stalin quote on why nationalism and monarchy is good actually
The era of competitive capitalism is over, has been since WW1. Please read Lenin.
And, as Rosa Luxemburg wrote, in our era of imperialism and global capitalism, national liberation movements - even those of oppressed nations or with small fringe progressive, socialist, elements - inevitably align themselves with an imperial power and remain within the global network of capitalism.
If you are a Marxist then your fight should be class based, not based in ethnic struggles, not when any newly formed state will just become the latest addition to the capitalist economic system, system of bourgeois oppression, and a pawn of the major powers of our era.
Recognising that fact is why despite being a Pole and a Jew, and aware of the suffering Poles and Jews faced in the German and Russian Empires, Luxemburg still opposed the notion of fighting for a Polish state and also opposed Zionism when she could fight for a Socialist state instead.
>"Small nations, whose ruling classes are appendages and accessories of their class comrades in the large nations, are merely pawns in the imperialist game played by the major powers." - Luxemburg, from Either/Or (1916).
The only valid revolution for any Communist should be a proletarian one.

Of course a very current rebuke to all these points that MLs now often ask is: "But what of Palestine, what of the ongoing genocide?".
I will preempt this response by saying that of course it is common sense to fight back against genocide, apartheid, imperialism. Palestinians should use all tools available to defend themselves from colonisation.
Nothing about opposing nationalism, opposing creating yet another bourgeois state to be dismantled, is in disagreement with that.
Defence against a genocidal state and colonisation is entirely distinct from choosing a national liberation struggle over proletarian revolution.
Communists should support a single state in historic Palestine for both Arab and Jew ruled by DoTP.

>friendly reminder that all nafoids must hang
Friendly reminder that I agree, my friend.

>>2562962
Do you think westoids are cucks?

>competitive capitalism is over
Better throw out my copy of Das Kapital then.

>>2562383
With America worshipers like China and Vietnam, who needs compradors? At least when they get dismembered they won't be able to feign ignorance like the Soviets.

>>2563161

>Recognising that fact is why despite being a Pole and a Jew, and aware of the suffering Poles and Jews faced in the German and Russian Empires, Luxemburg still opposed the notion of fighting for a Polish state and also opposed Zionism when she could fight for a Socialist state instead.

Except the fact that the leninist compromise of national autonomy did in facto outlasted most if not all socialist experiments, whatever luxembourg and other left deviationists could offer as a alternative "bourgeois nationalism" failed and proofed to be nothing but a stone in the shoe of actual revolutions, as history evidence us the failure of the spartakists, the undeniable failure of polish communists pre PZPL, and possibily the terroristic zinovieite/trotskyist opposition.
The idea of rejection of any supposed "nationalism" and search for a pure leftist deviation is nothing but a shameful attempt to revive a marxist current that is explicitily academicist/theorical and disconnected with the reality of workers and peasants… To justify their shortsights, and failures… left deviationists use the existing revisionism and degeneration of marxism praticied in "communist" countries as a way to position their cults as a viable, when history has prooven that the communist movement must interconnected with the international proletariat and peasantry, and the united national struggle agaisnt imperialism is one of the way

>>2563161
>I will preempt this response by saying that of course it is common sense to fight back against genocide, apartheid, imperialism. Palestinians should use all tools available to defend themselves from colonisation.
>Nothing about opposing nationalism, opposing creating yet another bourgeois state to be dismantled, is in disagreement with that.
You really showed the irrationality of your position here anon. How is the palestinian struggle against genocide, apartheid and imperialism and their "use of all tools available to them" "entirely distinct from choosing a national liberation struggle over proletarian revolution"? These are in actuality entirely intertwined struggles, rather than entirely severed forces as you seem to describe. The palestinian struggle against imperialism is one of national liberation, their entire ordeal is being a stateless people's that have no national sovereignty, no national army, no unoccupied government, no passports, no nothing. This is the root distinction between israelis and palestinians. Your weird, irrational, moralistic distain for national liberation clouds your analysis

>>2562383
Main reason I can't be behind DPRK 100% is because it's a monarchy and monarchies suck ass. Anti-monarchism is a fundamental element of leftism. And monarchies by definition cannot be DotP.
>inb4 noooo it's not a monarchy it's just a coincidence that it's a familial line of succession!

>>2563353
It's not a monarchy really

>>2563361
>not a monarchy
>look inside
>hereditary military dictatorship justified by divine providence
I can only grant it critical support against the Great Satan.
USSR and China got along without hereditary rule just fine.

>>2563353
>Main reason I can't be behind DPRK 100% is because it's a monarchy and monarchies suck ass
People said this shit about Cuba under Raúl. What's your cope going to be when someone outside the Kim family is elected to General Secretary.

>>2563353
the kim family is just the public head of state,most countries aren't presidential monarchies,and electing the son of someone who was extremely popular is very common

>>2563370
It is only the way it is because of the great Satan which did much more damage than it did to the ussr or china. Plus it's debatable how much power kim really has. He seems to me more like some sort of mascot for the state than a monarch

>>2563370
Kim doesn't have real power inside the party, fyi.

>>2563098
Stalin wanted to join NATO and allied with the western imperialism in WW2 :)

>>2563399
cry about it bordigger, hitler lost

>>2563494
>bordigger
is some memecommunist faggot trying to force yet another retarded meme again

>>2563161
>L*xemburg
lol keep that shit to yourself next time please

>uncritical support for anything
liberalism. stopped reading.

>>2563165
For thinking all regimes are le good? Yes

>>2563399
>Stalin wanted to join NATO
he was proving that NATO was not a "defensive" organization and was an anticommunist organization by calling their bluff and offering to join it. Their public rebuke of the USSR joining NATO proved NATO's intentions to encircle and destroy the USSR.
>and allied with the western imperialism in WW2 :)
oh, this is bait. never mind.

>uncritical support
>uncritical

Lmao, lol even.

>>2563370
>USSR and China got along without hereditary rule just fine.
<just fine
anon…. you've been in a coma. it's 2025. sit down.

>>2563200
lenin concluded imperialism based of capital
you are a retard

I don't give a fuck about any of these "le based anti imperialist" countries until any of them ACTUALLY takes any meaningful action against GLOBAL CAPITALISM.

>>2566879
stfu retard, establish your own DOTP instead of leeching off the global south

Why not Eritrea?

>>2562383
What about Belarus? The last true social democracy in Europe?