/leftypol/ - Leftist Politically Incorrect

Proletarian nation was a term used by 20th century Soviet Marxist intellectuals such as Lev Preobrazhensky to refer to the Soviet Union and other nations that they regarded as being productive, morally vigorous, and inclined to bold action, which they considered to be characteristics associated with the proletariat. Preobrazhensky admired revolutionary proletarian movements such as bolshevism for their tactics, although he opposed their goals, and he wanted to inspire a radical social-democratic movement that would use similar tactics in service of different goals: a movement that would advocate war communism in place of class revolution, while maintaining the same methods of "maximum cohesion, concentration of forces, iron discipline and utter ruthlessness. Preobrazhensky associated the concept of proletariat with the economic function of production, arguing that all producers are in a moral sense proletarian (not only the workers, but also productive owners and entrepreneurs), and he believed that all producers should be at the forefront of a new imperialist proletarian nation.

>>2562383
Two of these things are not like the other, two of these things are christian shitholes.

I was thinking about making a thread on this but this is similar enough I feel, but what do you anons think about the odds of survival the current governments these countries have? Seeing the Ba'athist gov in Syria fall in such an unexpected manner shocked me, as I'm sure it did many others. Now when I think of these countries, I think a lot don't stand a chance. The way I see it, Cuba, Nicaragua, and Iran will have a regime change in this century. The Islamic government in Iran probably won't last to 2050. And countries like Nicaragua or Cuba could so be easily toppled through invasion or color revolutions by the US, I don't see them surviving either.

uncritical support fails the ruthless criticism of all that exists

but no support at all fails the real movement to abolish the current state of thing

therefore ruthlessly critical support for the enemy of my enemy, who is only my temporary friend

>>2562885
>therefore ruthlessly critical support for the enemy of my enemy, who is only my temporary friend
realpolitik pilled

>>2562824
Only PRC is immune to regime change in the near future unless something crazy happens.

Syria is not that surprising in hindsight. Economy was completely decimated (turns out sanctions work sometimes), the state was rotten with corruption, and even Assad's closest allies were becoming frustrated with him. The majority of his people hated him and you need some level of public support no matter how tight you're running your regime.

I hope they make it but unfortunately Venezuela could go any day for similar reasons.

based

>>2562383
Let me guess, you come from a first world country

Uncritical support for:

<Social Democracy
<Nation Bolshevism
<State Capitalism
<Chinese Triad operated casino resorts and subsistence farming
<Americophilic Market Socialism
<Inept Social Democracy

Long live the people's wholesome bourgeoisie!
Long live the people's proletarian landlords!
Long live the people's commodity production and capital accumulation!
All people to the people's billionaires and CEOs (Marxist pioneers on the economic front)!!

>>2563041
>Chinese Triad operated casino resorts
might as well then claim uncritical support for thailand and myanmar as 2 other countries of golden triangle, cambodia is outside of it but is also engaged

>Republic of Cuba
Sure
>Democratic People’s Republic of Korea
No. Just critical support
>People’s Republic of China
No. If they start being socialist then they can get my support.
>Lao People’s Democratic Republic
I'm not well versed on their history but considering how no one talks about their nation I guess they have abandoned socialism
>Socialist Republic of Vietnam
They're very good friends with Pissrael.
>Bolivarian Republic of Venezuela
Critical support in their fight against the Amerikkkan state right now.

>>2562922
>Only PRC is immune to regime change in the near future unless something crazy happens.
You forgot The DPRK.

>>2563041
friendly reminder that all nafoids must hang

>>2563088
Why do you hate asian people so much anon?

>>2563098
>Le epic Stalin quote on why nationalism and monarchy is good actually
The era of competitive capitalism is over, has been since WW1. Please read Lenin.
And, as Rosa Luxemburg wrote, in our era of imperialism and global capitalism, national liberation movements - even those of oppressed nations or with small fringe progressive, socialist, elements - inevitably align themselves with an imperial power and remain within the global network of capitalism.
If you are a Marxist then your fight should be class based, not based in ethnic struggles, not when any newly formed state will just become the latest addition to the capitalist economic system, system of bourgeois oppression, and a pawn of the major powers of our era.
Recognising that fact is why despite being a Pole and a Jew, and aware of the suffering Poles and Jews faced in the German and Russian Empires, Luxemburg still opposed the notion of fighting for a Polish state and also opposed Zionism when she could fight for a Socialist state instead.
>"Small nations, whose ruling classes are appendages and accessories of their class comrades in the large nations, are merely pawns in the imperialist game played by the major powers." - Luxemburg, from Either/Or (1916).
The only valid revolution for any Communist should be a proletarian one.

Of course a very current rebuke to all these points that MLs now often ask is: "But what of Palestine, what of the ongoing genocide?".
I will preempt this response by saying that of course it is common sense to fight back against genocide, apartheid, imperialism. Palestinians should use all tools available to defend themselves from colonisation.
Nothing about opposing nationalism, opposing creating yet another bourgeois state to be dismantled, is in disagreement with that.
Defence against a genocidal state and colonisation is entirely distinct from choosing a national liberation struggle over proletarian revolution.
Communists should support a single state in historic Palestine for both Arab and Jew ruled by DoTP.

>friendly reminder that all nafoids must hang
Friendly reminder that I agree, my friend.

>>2562962
Do you think westoids are cucks?

>competitive capitalism is over
Better throw out my copy of Das Kapital then.

>>2562383
With America worshipers like China and Vietnam, who needs compradors? At least when they get dismembered they won't be able to feign ignorance like the Soviets.

>>2563161

>Recognising that fact is why despite being a Pole and a Jew, and aware of the suffering Poles and Jews faced in the German and Russian Empires, Luxemburg still opposed the notion of fighting for a Polish state and also opposed Zionism when she could fight for a Socialist state instead.

Except the fact that the leninist compromise of national autonomy did in facto outlasted most if not all socialist experiments, whatever luxembourg and other left deviationists could offer as a alternative "bourgeois nationalism" failed and proofed to be nothing but a stone in the shoe of actual revolutions, as history evidence us the failure of the spartakists, the undeniable failure of polish communists pre PZPL, and possibily the terroristic zinovieite/trotskyist opposition.
The idea of rejection of any supposed "nationalism" and search for a pure leftist deviation is nothing but a shameful attempt to revive a marxist current that is explicitily academicist/theorical and disconnected with the reality of workers and peasants… To justify their shortsights, and failures… left deviationists use the existing revisionism and degeneration of marxism praticied in "communist" countries as a way to position their cults as a viable, when history has prooven that the communist movement must interconnected with the international proletariat and peasantry, and the united national struggle agaisnt imperialism is one of the way

>>2563161
>I will preempt this response by saying that of course it is common sense to fight back against genocide, apartheid, imperialism. Palestinians should use all tools available to defend themselves from colonisation.
>Nothing about opposing nationalism, opposing creating yet another bourgeois state to be dismantled, is in disagreement with that.
You really showed the irrationality of your position here anon. How is the palestinian struggle against genocide, apartheid and imperialism and their "use of all tools available to them" "entirely distinct from choosing a national liberation struggle over proletarian revolution"? These are in actuality entirely intertwined struggles, rather than entirely severed forces as you seem to describe. The palestinian struggle against imperialism is one of national liberation, their entire ordeal is being a stateless people's that have no national sovereignty, no national army, no unoccupied government, no passports, no nothing. This is the root distinction between israelis and palestinians. Your weird, irrational, moralistic distain for national liberation clouds your analysis

>>2562383
Main reason I can't be behind DPRK 100% is because it's a monarchy and monarchies suck ass. Anti-monarchism is a fundamental element of leftism. And monarchies by definition cannot be DotP.
>inb4 noooo it's not a monarchy it's just a coincidence that it's a familial line of succession!

>>2563353
It's not a monarchy really

>>2563361
>not a monarchy
>look inside
>hereditary military dictatorship justified by divine providence
I can only grant it critical support against the Great Satan.
USSR and China got along without hereditary rule just fine.

>>2563353
>Main reason I can't be behind DPRK 100% is because it's a monarchy and monarchies suck ass
People said this shit about Cuba under Raúl. What's your cope going to be when someone outside the Kim family is elected to General Secretary.

>>2563353
the kim family is just the public head of state,most countries aren't presidential monarchies,and electing the son of someone who was extremely popular is very common

>>2563370
It is only the way it is because of the great Satan which did much more damage than it did to the ussr or china. Plus it's debatable how much power kim really has. He seems to me more like some sort of mascot for the state than a monarch

>>2563370
Kim doesn't have real power inside the party, fyi.

>>2563098
Stalin wanted to join NATO and allied with the western imperialism in WW2 :)

>>2563399
cry about it bordigger, hitler lost

>>2563494
>bordigger
is some memecommunist faggot trying to force yet another retarded meme again

>>2563161
>L*xemburg
lol keep that shit to yourself next time please

>uncritical support for anything
liberalism. stopped reading.

>>2563165
For thinking all regimes are le good? Yes

>>2563399
>Stalin wanted to join NATO
he was proving that NATO was not a "defensive" organization and was an anticommunist organization by calling their bluff and offering to join it. Their public rebuke of the USSR joining NATO proved NATO's intentions to encircle and destroy the USSR.
>and allied with the western imperialism in WW2 :)
oh, this is bait. never mind.

>uncritical support
>uncritical

Lmao, lol even.

>>2563370
>USSR and China got along without hereditary rule just fine.
<just fine
anon…. you've been in a coma. it's 2025. sit down.

>>2563200
lenin concluded imperialism based of capital
you are a retard

I don't give a fuck about any of these "le based anti imperialist" countries until any of them ACTUALLY takes any meaningful action against GLOBAL CAPITALISM.

>>2566879
stfu retard, establish your own DOTP instead of leeching off the global south

Why not Eritrea?

>>2562383
What about Belarus? The last true social democracy in Europe?

>>2570871
Uncritical support.

Fight against the imperialism is a sham and humbug.
Lenin

>>2562383
>>2566876
If the DPRK isn't a monarchy, then how is Kim Yo Jong such a queen? Checkmate, tankies.

>>2570871
Dogmatic support.
>>2602236
The OP pic is shopped doe.

Preobrazhensky was arrested in 1935 and shot in 1937

leftcoms malding

>>2603392
this thread aged like milk lol

>When your time-wasting shitpost spam exposes you on the first WORD: the thread
You are not a Marxist.

Multipolaroids losing it lmao. It ain't 2020 anymore lil bro. You are mainstream. You are now part of the humilliation that is the western left.

>>2644177
>leftcomm posting racist caricatures
How surpising

>>2644181
not a friggin leftkom pal… also im a heckin latino… read marx, engels, lenin, stalin, mao and gonzalo bub

>>2644190
If you are not a leftcom why does your image says "1# lover of commodities"?
>im a heckin latino
So?

>>2644196
1. because im just not… ok?
2. because im not a friggin unwholesome racistblud

I used to be a liberal who though human rights were the end all be all of politics.

I was wrong

sorry

>>2644206
I HATE JUCHE I HATE NATCOM I LOVE THE INTERNATIONAL PROLETARIAT

>>2644190
>read (…) mao and gonzalo
I did (I even worked on translating PCP's collected writings for a bit) and "social imperialism" is completely unsubstantiated nonsense. It's literally just Mao malding and going increasingly senile.

>>2644228
wow a real khrushchevite I didn’t realize you guys were still around

>>2644232
You can believe that Khruschev put the USSR on a steady downward path without lobbing insane accusations of "nazi hitlerite dictatorship" and "social imperialism". Imagine that!

>>2644259
Ussr tried to sell africa commodities at western prices, thus engaging in unequal exchange

>>2644259
just give it up bro… its over…

>>2644293
Yeah it's over for maoism while socialism is alive in DPRK, China and Cuba, kek

>>2644210
You continue talking like a leftcom (or a "marxist", if you want to call yourself that) and you will continue to say you are not a leftcom
International proletariat: lost
Juche and Deng: won

>>2644356
>nooo i am not racist I promise, forget about the literal mutt i posted above and the unironic sharty-level wojaks I am posting

>>2644374
>International proletariat: lost, Juche and Deng: won

read marx bub…

>>2644425
you're not the international proletariat you're a petty bourg labor aristokkrat

>>2644425
understand marx bub…

>>2562885
>real movement to abolish the current state of thing
None of the "AES" shitholes are capable of abolishing the state of things

>>2644177
Quality meme, saved, will post it a lot

Based

>>2644210
>the international proletariat
>meanwhile the USA rapes the world

how can we have an international proletariat if one nation is pillaging the other nations ?

>>2645368
How many memes with racist drawings do you have saved?

>>2645553
I am mexican so I can post the meximutt meme all I want, it's like when black people say the n-word.

>>2645576
What does o algo mean?

>>2645577
It mens "or something" or "or something like that". The context is that the meximutt is a theorylet, an ignorant third world peasant with nothing but a couple of brush strokes of anti-imperialists ideas. For example, the meximutt will say
"The CIA is forcing me to eat gansitos (a mexican pastry) o algo" as in, it is true the American ruling class that have invested in companies like Bimbo and Marinela want him to eat their products, to have profits. But the CIA isn't literally forcing him to stuff his fat mouth with refined sugars and bread, so since he merely has an idea, he says "o algo". As in, "I am not sure but it is something like that" it's mocking the baseless analysis some third world latinos make about muh imperialism

>>2645576
>mexican
Post DNA test results or you are of european descent

>>2645609
I am of mostly of European descent indeed, I can trace my ancestry back to the Peninsula.

>>2645614
Okay so you are caucasian and you are making fun of natives
No surprise a leftcom is racist

>>2645631
But I am a mutt too (castizo). Arentou implying Castizos are fully hwite?

>Letter of Imam Khomeini,

>The Great Leader of the Islamic Revolution and Founder of the Islamic Republic of Iran,

>To President Mikhail Gorbachev, Leader of the Soviet Union

In the Name of Allah, the Compassionate, the Merciful

Your Excellency Mr. Gorbachev1, Chairman of the Presidium of the Union of Soviet Socialist Republics

With due wishes for the happiness and prosperity of Your Excellency and the people of the Soviet Union.

Since your assumption of office there has been the impression that Your Excellency, in analyzing world political events, particularly those pertaining to the Soviet Union, have found yourself in a new era of reassessment, change, and confrontation; and your boldness and initiative in dealing with the realities of the world is quite likely to bring about changes that would result in upsetting the equations of power dominating the world. I have therefore found it necessary to bring certain matters to your attention.

Even if your new approach and decisions are merely used as a means to overcome the party crisis, and to solve some of the problems confronting your people, your courage in reappraising a school of thought that has for decades enchained the revolutionary youth of the world behind its iron curtain is indeed worthy of praise. If, however, you are considering taking a further step forward, the first thing that will ensure your success is that you re-evaluate your predecessors’ policy of obliterating God and religion from society2, a policy that has no doubt given the heaviest blow to the Soviet people. Rest assured that this is the only way whereby world problems can be dealt with realistically.

Viewing Islam as a remnant of the pre-socialist stage, Marxists took two major approaches to confront it: to wipe out Islam as an alien element from the scene of public life by openly challenging it, and to assimilate Islam into Russian society by Russianizing Muslims. Stalin, the most notorious of all communist leaders, persecuted Muslims on a large scale by banishing certain Muslim peoples collectively to Siberia and Asia Minor. The astonishing number of Russian anti- religious publications distributed in Islamic countries is part of the Soviet government’s universal struggle against Islam. The occupation of Afghanistan was the Soviet Union’s last attempt to penetrate the Islamic world.

Of course it is possible that as a result of wrong economic policies of former communist authorities, the Western world, an illusory heaven, will appear to be fascinating; but the truth lies elsewhere. If you hope, at this juncture, to cut the economic Gordian knots of socialism and communism by appealing to the center of Western capitalism, you will, far from remedying any ill of your society, commit a mistake which those to come will have to erase. For, if Marxism has come to a deadlock in its social and economic policies, capitalism has also bogged down, in this as well as in other respects though in a different form.

Mr. Gorbachev,

Reality must be faced. The main problem confronting your country is not one of private ownership, freedom and economy; your problem is the absence of true faith in God, the very problem that has dragged, or will drag, the West to vulgarism and an impasse. Your main problem is the prolonged and futile war you have waged against God, the source of existence and creation.

Mr. Gorbachev,

It is clear to everybody that from now on communism will only have to be found in the museums of world political history, for Marxism cannot meet any of the real needs of mankind. Marxism is a materialistic ideology and materialism cannot bring humanity out of the crisis caused by a lack of belief in spirituality—the prime affliction of the human society in the East and the West alike.

Mr. Gorbachev,

You may have not in theory turned your back on certain aspects of Marxism—and may continue to profess your heartfelt loyalty to it in interviews—but you know that, in practice, the reality is not so. The leader of China3 struck the first blow to communism and you have
struck the second and, apparently, final blow. Today we have no such thing as communism in the world.

I earnestly call on you, however, not to get trapped, while tearing down the walls of Marxist illusions, in the prison of the West and the Great Satan.4 I hope you will attain the honor of removing the decayed layers of 70-year communist aberration from the face of history and of your country. Today those allies of yours that are genuinely concerned about their homelands and people are no longer willing to sacrifice their subterranean and surface resources to keep alive the myth of the success of communism—an ideology whose din of collapse has already reached the ears of their children.

Mr. Gorbachev,

When after 70 years the call, “Allah is Great” and the testimony to the prophethood of the Seal of the Prophets, Muhammad (peace be upon him and his posterity) were heard from the minarets of the mosques in some of your Republics, all the followers of the pure Muhammadan Islam were moved to tears out of ecstasy.

Therefore, I have found it necessary to remind you to reflect once again on the materialistic and theistic worldviews. Materialists consider sense to be the sole criterion of knowledge and are of the opinion that whatever cannot be known through the senses falls outside the realm of knowledge. They identify existence with matter and consider as nonexistent anything that has no material body. Inevitably, they regard the world of the unseen—God Almighty, Divine Revelation, Prophethood, and the Resurrection—as mere fiction.

On the other hand, theists consider both sense and reason to be the criteria of knowledge, and maintain that whatever can be known through reason lies within the realm of knowledge, although it is not perceptible. To theists, therefore, existence is inclusive of both the unseen and the manifest. For a thing to exist it is not necessary to have a material body. In the same way that a material thing depends on an incorporeal thing,5 sensory perception is dependent on rational perception.6

The Holy Qur’an reprobates the fundamentals of materialistic thought and, addressing those who say:

“We shall never believe in thee until we see God manifestly,”7

proclaims:

“Vision comprehends Him not, and He comprehends all vision; and He is the Knower of subtleties, the Aware.”8

I should not like to present here Qur’anic arguments concerning Divine Revelation, Prophethood and the Resurrection which from your point of view are debatable. In fact, I do not wish to entangle you in the twists and turns of philosophical arguments, particularly those of Islamic philosophy. I will content myself by presenting one or two simple, intuitive examples of which even politicians can avail themselves.

It is self-evident that matter, whatever its nature, has no awareness of self. Consider a stone statue: each side is ignorant of the other side. Whereas human beings and animals clearly observe and are aware of their surroundings. They know where they are and are aware of what goes on around them. There must be, then, an element in men and animals that transcends matter and is separate from it, living beyond the life of matter.

Intrinsically, man seeks to attain absolute perfection. He strives, as you well know, for absolute power over the world; he is not attached to any power that is defective. If he has the entire world at his command, he naturally feels inclined to have command of another world once he is informed of its existence. No matter how learned a person may be if he learns of some other branch of knowledge, he naturally feels inclined to attain mastery of that branch of knowledge as well.

Therefore, there must be some Absolute Power and Absolute Knowledge to which man is attached. It is God we all seek although we may not be aware of it. Man strives to attain Absolute Truth, so that he may be annihilated in God. Basically, the desire for eternal life that is inherent in every individual is proof of the existence of an Eternal World to which destruction cannot find its way.

Should Your Excellency desire further information on these matters, you may command those scholars of yours who are well-versed in this field to study, in addition to the works of Western philosophers, the writings of Peripatetic philosophers9, al-Farabi10 and Avicenna,11

peace be upon them. It will then become clear that the law of causation on which all knowledge depends is a rational, not sensible law. Likewise, perception of general laws and concepts on which all reasoning rests is reached not by means of sensory experience but through rational argument.12 Your scholars may further refer to the Ishraqi13 theosophy of Suhrawardi,14 and explain to you that the flesh, as well as any other material thing, is in need of Pure Light which has no material entity, that man’s witnessing of his own truth does not take place by means of any sense organ.15 You may also have the scholars familiarize themselves with Transcendental philosophy16 of Mulla Sadra 17(may Allah be pleased with him and resurrect him with the prophets and the pious), so that it may become clear that the nature of knowledge is different from the nature of matter and that intellect, far removed from matter, cannot be restricted by the laws governing matter.

I won’t tire you further by mentioning the works of mystics, in particular Muhyi’d-Din ibn al-‘Arabi.18 If you wish to make yourself acquainted with the doctrines of this celebrated mystic, send a number of your brilliant scholars, who are well-versed in this field, to Qum19 so that, by reliance on God, they may, after a couple of years, glimpse the depth of the delicate stages of gnosis,20 which will be impossible for them to acquire without making such a journey.

Mr. Gorbachev,

After mentioning these problems and preliminary points, let me call on you to study Islam earnestly, not because Islam and the Muslims may need you but because Islam has exalted universal values which can bring comfort and salvation to all nations and remove the basic problems of mankind. A true understanding of Islam may forever release you from the problem of Afghanistan21 and other similar involvements. We treat Muslims of the world as Muslims of our own country and will ever share in their destiny.

By granting certain liberties to some of your Republics in matters pertaining to religious practices, you have shown that you no longer consider religion as the “opium of the people.”22 Indeed, how can Islam be the opium of the people—the religion that has made Iranians as firm as a mountain against superpowers? Is the religion that seeks the administration of justice in the world and man’s freedom from material and spiritual shackles, the opium of the people? Only that religion is the opium of the people that causes the material and spiritual resources of Islamic and non-Islamic countries to pass into the clutches of super and lesser powers and that preaches that religion is separate from politics. This, however, cannot be called a true religion; it is what our people call “an American religion.”

In conclusion, I declare outright that the Islamic Republic of Iran as the greatest and most powerful base of the Islamic world can easily fill the vacuum of religious faith in your society. In any case, our country, as in the past, honors good neighborhood and bilateral relations.

Peace be upon those who follow the guidance.23

Ruhullah al-Musawi al-Khomeini
67/10/11 AHS
[January 1, 1989

Peak leftist"com" moment right here: >>2563161

Read Bordiga.

Way to screw over The Republic of Nicaragua

>Uncritical support
Stopped reading.

Uncritical support is for (and I mean this in its proper medical definition) retards. No exceptions.