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/leftypol/ - Leftist Politically Incorrect

"The anons of the past have only shitposted on the Internet about the world, in various ways. The point, however, is to change it."
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This thread is for the discussion of cybercommunism, the planning of the socialist economy by computerized means, including discussions of related topics and creators. Drama belongs in /isg/

Reading
Towards a New Socialism by Paul Cockshott and Allin Cottrell: http://ricardo.ecn.wfu.edu/~cottrell/socialism_book/
Brain of the Firm by Stafford Beer
Cybernetic Revolutionaries by Eden Medina
Cybernetics: Or the Control and Communication in the Animal and the Machine and The Human Use of Human Beings (1st edition) by Norbert Wiener
Economic cybernetics by Nikolay Veduta
People's Republic of Walmart by Leigh Phillips and Michal Rozworski
Red Plenty by Francis Spufford
Economics in kind, Total socialisation and A system of socialisation by Otto Neurath (Incommensurability, Ecology, and Planning: Neurath in the Socialist Calculation Debate by Thomas Uebel provides a summary)

Active writers/creators sorted by last name

>Paul Cockshott

https://www.patreon.com/williamCockshott/
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCVBfIU1_zO-P_R9keEGdDHQ (https://invidious.snopyta.org/channel/UCVBfIU1_zO-P_R9keEGdDHQ)
https://paulcockshott.wordpress.com/
http://paulcockshott.co.uk/
https://twitter.com/PaulCockshott (https://nitter.pussthecat.org/PaulCockshott)
>Cibcom (Spanish)
https://cibcom.org/
https://twitter.com/cibcomorg (https://nitter.pussthecat.org/cibcomorg)
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCav9ad3TMuhiWV6yP5t2IpA (https://invidious.snopyta.org/channel/UCav9ad3TMuhiWV6yP5t2IpA)
>Tomas Härdin
https://www.haerdin.se/tag/cybernetics.html
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC5fDgA_eHleDiTLC5qb5g8w (https://invidious.snopyta.org/channel/UC5fDgA_eHleDiTLC5qb5g8w)

Podcasts
>General Intellect Unit
Podcast of the Cybernetic Marxists
http://generalintellectunit.net/

Previous threads in chronological order
https://archive.is/uNCEY
https://web.archive.org/web/20201218152831/https://bunkerchan.xyz/leftypol/res/997358.html
https://archive.ph/uyggp
https://archive.is/xBFYY
https://archive.ph/Afx5a
https://archive.is/kAPvR
https://archive.is/0sAS2
https://archive.is/jXivP
https://archive.is/Lx8TF

reposting Cockshott's response to academic agent here

File: 1763576064981.png (318.64 KB, 2960x2280, 1761465349671.png)

UPHOLD COCKSHOTT THOUGHT

File: 1763578947644.jpg (68.55 KB, 1024x829, 1763573219713138m.jpg)


>>2566230
yeah he probably means because everyone will be using crypto or some bullshit

>>2566586
My guess is hes starting to see planned economy as a viable alternative due to advances in AI. Maybe im just projecting.

>>2566595
you are, think about who he is, hes literally a Nazi, no exaggeration. he means some type of slavery with rationing. imagine how it would be for workers stuck on his mars base. that's how he wants all of the world to be. he's a white supremacist eugenicist.

>>2566230
it's a pipe dream on the MEDIUM TERM, there's already backlash to AI because these retards couldnt stop salivating about slaving everyone.

>>2566230
uyghas in here not reading the chapter on machinery as usual: https://www.marxists.org/archive/marx/works/1867-c1/ch15.htm
>automation will kill gabbidalism dis tiem!

>>2566917
>liberal describes "communism"
<it's capitalism
>liberal describes capitalism in its death throes
<it's communism
many such cases

>>2566230

LEFTCOM MUSK

LEFTCOM MUSK

>>2567644
I can't help but feel sympathy for maidbot. I'd probably help it do chores.

>>2568103
>all these productive forces posted unspoilered
l-lewd
but actually there's still humans involved. as with all automation, it merely moves where the labour is actually being done. instead of assembling and welding the cars themselves, workers now program and maintain the robots that do those things. we might see maintenance be automated as well eventually

Wondering if TNS and other cybercommunist works have been translated to Nepali, Korean, Russian, or Hindi. I know there's translations in Spanish and Mandarin - and people working on a Vietnamese version - but some of the largest parties on earth are in Nepal and India, and would certainly make use of it, though i'm sure they're already broadly aware of the ideas presented.

Finally finished reading the reproduction schema paper by Alex Creiner which "proves" that in Capitalism, equilibrium of supply and demand is compatible with disproportions in production growing to the point that production completely collapses.

This ugly wall of text really needs some space between the paragraphs and highlighting more words. I made a list of typos to prove I read the thing to the end:
complextion, intenstion (this one gets repeated throughout), apploet, its subjects, volumne, its increasing level, finished what he started, waiting for capital inflows being which are stuck being hoarded, Marx observes observes, We are now faced with an overemphasized wage capital goods department and an underemphasized wage goods department, cylcle, crisis of disproportionality we are dealing with is not, wage goods are the goods whose use-values lies, use-values they are producing isn’t aren’t, entirely concerned, its own, are seen not to produce not producing, are seen blindly investing, would also would, spiraling, can inadvertaently (end of sentence missing here), they abruptly they explode, do a good job, Indeedn, We already noted (where?) that (the author wrote "where" here, remember I'm the one using italics for my comments), its subjects, its relation, we can clearly see two things clearly, its subjects, that that, he could likely have anticipated, value remains, we should address is the issue, fisrt first, its supposed function, as. necessary, A true solution to (rest of sentence missing), equaliing, Many Marxists since the controversies about the transformation problem sought to escape them the controversies, Marx at the end of his life ended his life was convinced that, in order to (end of sentence missing)

There are also several instances of "???" appearing whenever a precise reference is missing.

The tone of the paper feels inconsistent. Is the result strong evidence of the irrationality of capitalism or are the model assumptions too unrealistic for that? The author swings from one extreme to the other.

>>2570610
is this going to be published somewhere?
I've taken a gander at Creiner's work before. seems reasonable enough. he does go on for perhaps a bit too long around having discovered positive eigenvalues in capitalism

>>2570356
There are translations but no one that could influence a country's economy is reading it

ДИКБЛАСТ IS INEVITABLE.

>>2573818
BИЛЪЯM KOKШOT
is that Safranov in the middle?

>>2573818
>А.В.Сафронов – историк, экономист, кандидат экономических наук, ведущий канала «Простые числа».
so it seems. historian, economist, kandidat (roughly MSc I think), video (though it almost reads like Veduta's) channel prime numbers. and yeah he's on the Prime Numbers channel

>>2573828

Дикбласт must become ДикВласть. Αμήν.

What the hell did he mean by this? Is he /ourguy/ for real?

The so-called TRULY FREE MARKET

Continuing with my abstract non-proposal from the last thread. I was thinking about a meta-procedure that combines an auction with something else.

Quoting this critique from myself:
>The fixed prices were introduced to deal with worries about raising prices. But to deal with that, it is enough to have a price ceiling.
What are the worries about raising prices really about though? If somebody snatches a thing right before your eyes, what good does it do to know you could have paid the price? It's better to have a guarantee that you can obtain a thing. So I have come to the conclusion that the part of the proposal that isn't an auction should not be something with a fixed price, nor something with a price ceiling, but simply something without any price. And since I got no idea how to combine the parts in an elegant fashion for now, we just do first the part without any prices and then the auction stuff.

Assume a given pile of classified and quantified resources, ready to be used up in the next period. After the central authority has set the Resource Access Power (RAP) of each pseudo-firm, the pseudo-firms should not yet have to participate in the resource auctions. Instead, the central authority sets aside a part of the pile for the pseudo-firms making requests in kind. The hydraulic diagram from a 2D world describes a situation of just three pseudo-firms. On the left, the blue liquid representing the resource sits in a tank that is closed at the bottom. If we let the resource flow, it will go through the pipe into the three vessels on the right and will reach equal level (and the air will escape from the vessels through the pipes they got on top). These three vessels represent the three pseudo-firms. The width of a pseudo-firm's vessel is proportional to its RAP, so these three are equal in that. The size of a pseudo-firm's request is represented by its vessel's volume (and since the diagram is in a 2D world, area = volume). A pseudo-firm exaggerating its request will make its vessel taller, but not wider.

(Maybe it would have been better to show two pseudo-firms in the diagram, one at half the RAP of the other, but I'm too lazy to edit it. Anyway, you should be able to picture what that would look like.)

Only after this procedure is through do we start with the auction stuff.

Get the fuck in here.

>>2573879
of all porky, musk seems one of the rare breed that are a little bit class conscious as he doesn't expect billions of homeless proles to just disappear when the automation layoffs fully hit

>>2576720
class conscious porkies are the most dangerous

For a long time, I've wanted to write a piece on the potential of a social networking platform as the facilitator of voluntary collective labour coordination.

From everyday communication, to house parties, and large scale mass mobilisations, it is clear the internet has revolutionized relations. Why not extend it to organizing production?

Of course tankies prefer to fantasize about political power, but why in general do communists never actually talk about how to organize production in a communist world.

>>2577144
Because the porkies have already organised production extremely efficiently and are continuing to rationalize production.

>>2576710
thanks anon

>>2577144
Anon read some of the archived threads at the top there have already been a ton of proposals on this.

>>2578390
>crashes ever 8 years or so
>extremely efficiently

>>2576720
all porkies are class conscious lol

>>2576294 (me)
Continuing with my boring exploration.

I know the hydraulic procedure does not have any prices, but could we do a scalar evaluation of the resources after they got assigned with this procedure, just on the basis of the assignment pattern? (You know, for the accountants.) We could simply do this: For a resource, we look at which pseudo-firm received some of it and just add all these pseudo-firms' RAP scores together. It seems to me that, ''within the constraints that we neither look at excess stocks nor at the request forms nor anything else besides the assignment pattern, this is actually the most fitting measure we can do. If this measure feels weird, it's really due to the method the measure was made for.

File: 1764832382089.png (443.61 KB, 1040x1171, Porky is delusional.png)

>>2578921
if they were truly class conscious they wouldn't be their own gravediggers

>>2583286
anon this anlysis fails to realize that porkie doesnt care about what happens after they die. A lot of the porkie will die before collapse happens so who gives a shit about lel future

File: 1764836149219.png (1.68 MB, 1528x1080, bezoslaugh.png)

>>2583306
if they can't or don't want to perpetuate class society after they die then they aren't really class conscious, they're just individualists, nihilists, and egoists. For the bourgeoisie to be conscious as a class they would have to want society to continue after they die.

But the analysis in the picture DOESEtake this into account. They hoard more wealth than they can spend in one life time. A lot of them could retire and never run out of money but they choose to continue attending board meetings and doing interviews and shit. They dress up and go places and act important and try to force regulations in their favor. They try to extend their copyrights more than a century. They try to use life extension tech. Elon Musk has a ton of kids. They really seem to think the Earth will survive their bullshit and they want their progeny to inherit their wealth,, on the one hand, but they continue to act in ways which guarantee their downfall, and/or the destruction of the earth, on the other hand. They want to live forever through life extension tech, on the one hand, but they don't create a political situation that tolerates their perpetual existence, on the other hand. They absolutely, as a class, seem to care about the future, but are very bad at understanding that they have outlived their historical usefulness as a class.


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