/leftypol/ - Leftist Politically Incorrect

You do realize both Stalin and Hilter were authoritarian totalitatrians that wanted to conquer democratic states, right?

>>2571417
engagement bait, these types of people do not browse /leftypol/

Stalin also did ethnic relocating and many other fascist type policies, also stop using whataboutism, the west rapes and murdered millions that wouldn't justify stalin doing the same to the british

>>2571417
both Stalin and Hilter were democrats (literally indistinguishable from FDR policy wise) who naturally wanted to genocide workers

>>2571415
>literally what did stalin even do wrong
nothing

>>2571610
- Hitler after the purges

>>2571613
who cares about that shithead

>>2571415
Your timeline is wrong. For starters, when did France and Britain stop negotiating with the Soviets? Also on a completely unrelated note, why did Molotov replace Litvinov as foreign commissar?

>be Stalin
>do smart diplomacy with enemy
>go on to win ww2
>make liberals, nazis, Trotskyists, leftcoms, and anarchists seethe for over 80 years
Haters gonna hate.

>>2571415
>literally what did stalin even do wrong here?
Fidel Castro thought it was unprincipled (look it up) and that while it seemed like it bought time, it actually increased the danger to the Soviet Union by emboldening Hitler. He might be wrong.

>7 years later, raise the red flag over berlin, huzzah hitler is gone
Yeah. But it doesn't seem like people really grasp how much destruction Hitler did to the Soviet Union. Do you know what I'm talking about? The war destroyed much of the most populated parts of the country, killed millions of people, and also left many more permanently wounded such that men with missing legs on roller boards was a common sight in cities across the USSR for the rest of the 20th century. Most of the war was fought on their territory and the consequences of that shaped Soviet power for the remainder of its existence and made it hard to compete with the U.S. in the long run.

There was another problem before the rise of the Nazis when the communists had a theory that fascism was really just a radicalization of capitalist tendencies turned inwards during a process of decay. So if that's the case (if you believe this), then the rise of the Nazis may even be viewed as desirable, and it may be in your interest to sabotage other socialists and democratic movements. Or try to direct the Nazis towards the west. But I think that was disastrously misguided as a strategy.

>>2572654
>do smart diplomacy with enemy
So smart he got caught with his pants down. Hard to look at 20 million dead and conclude that everything was perfect

>be 2025
>Stalin did nuffin wronk
Next, lib???????

>>2572661
The Soviet air force was basically destroyed on the first day.

>>2571415
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/German%E2%80%93Soviet_economic_relations_(1934%E2%80%931941)
Was sending 1,600,000 tons of grains, 900,000 tons of oil, 200,000 tons of cotton, 140,000 tons of manganese, 200,000 tons of phosphates, 20,000 tons of chrome ore, 18,000 tons of rubber, 100,000 tons of soybeans, 500,000 tons of iron ores, 300,000 tons of scrap metal and pig iron, and 2,000 kilograms of platinum to Nazi Germany really necessary for the defense of Soviet socialism?

Or was it a regrettable sacrifice necessary to achieve the partition of Poland (a genetically reactionary non-nation)?

>>2572661
Versus what? 40 million dead and the USSR getting destroyed completely with the Nazis still around? The alternative could have been way worse.

>>2572670
what's the scenario in which the Soviets lose? Britain, the US, and Japan all invade at the same time with the Nazis?

>>2572654
The smart diplomacy being allying with Nazis then allying with western colonialists

>>2572690
>allying with Nazis
<literal non-aggression pact to stall for time against the inevitable war is allying
<meanwhile the many big capitalists of Europe and America literally funded the Nazi war effort
Just admit you would have loved to see socialism stamped out by the nazis so you can mind wank to le pure anarchistic "resistance" (that totally would have succeeded against the nazi warhost) to bring real "socialism" to the world.
>allying with western colonialists
The USSR literally liberated half of fucking Europe, and still, will never be forgiven for it.

>>2572654
/thread

>>2572686
do you genuinely think the Brits and French wouldn't just watch in 1939 as Hitler marches East and destroys the Soviets?

>>2572690
>so mindbroken by reddit contrarianism that beating up the nazis BUT with the help of the Western allies is seen as epic gotcha
Lol

>>2572810
How would a weaker Germany in 1939 destroy the Soviets? The sort of long campaign needed to conquer Poland and Russia would mean the Nazis would have no one on the western front to stop Britain and France

>>2572812
>MLnimal admits western imperialism is just a talking point for his ilk
Nice mask off timmy

>>2572690
>Non aggression pact=alliance
>Also USSR should not have sought alliances against the genocidal nazi invaders because that would have made them more morally pure
kys retard

>>2572654
Based and true

If he could've concluded the pact without the trade agreements that gave the Nazis critical war materials for their 1939-1941 campaigns that obviously would have been better. Additionally they probably should have scrapped the pact and attacked Germany as soon as they began the invasion of France. However on that last point they were definitely taken aback (as was everybody else including the Germans) by the speed of the French collapse and realistically didn't have time to prepare an offensive.

everyone forgets how the pact fucked over Japan, who did not give their permission or was even consulted, and got literally nothing from their military alliance with germany

>>2572791
what part of supplying Nazis with resources and rooting for the defeat of France is stalling for time? The only Soviet consideration was that Hitler proposed a more lucrative deal than Chamberlain

>>2573159
Hitler declared war on America which he didn't have to do. Germany did tie up British and American resources which made the Pacific War easier for the Japanese. The Japanese got theirs by invading the British/American colonies instead of Siberia

>>2572870
Because the Soviets were severely underprepared in 1939 to seriously resist German aggression, if you think 1941 was bad then it was 200 hundreds times worse in 1939. And again, Britain and France wouldn't have a single reason to not just watch as the Germans slaughter the Soviets for them.

Not that the Germans win in this scenario but genuinely why would the Soviets willingly put themselves in a position that would leave them even more vulnerable to Western aggression after this second world war is over?

Fact is, the Soviets tried to ally with France and Britain to stop the Nazis and they rejected thus making the non-aggresion pact the only option left to buy themselves time

>>2573156
This as well, if the French leadership wasn't full of mongrels then the Soviets could have mobilized and started a front in the East

>>2573408
>Fact is, the Soviets tried to ally with France and Britain to stop the Nazis and they rejected thus
When exactly did this happen? When did France and Britain stop negotiating?

>>2573668
All the time.

>>2573712
The PDF only confirms that the British and French had negotiators in Moscow when Molotov-Ribbentrop was announced. Stalin simply decided that the Nazis were offering him a better deal and he took it