/leftypol/ - Leftist Politically Incorrect

>>2578017
always has been.

>>2578017
https://www.goodreads.com/en/book/show/12425045-economy-and-class-structure-of-german-fascism
Fascism is just a capitalist planned economy.

Most of the countries in Africa aren't failed states though. They may not be socialist but besides the Congo, Liberia and Sierra Leone most are functioning. Also I can't tell if Cuba is listed as a failed state or socialist state. If failed, how?

Also Belarus as a Degenerate "Worker's State" (Whatever that means) but not Russia? What? And "Third Worldist" state is the most arbitrary shit I've ever seen.

>>2578017
What you’re seeing is the extinction burst of fascism, the final tantrum before it finally curls up and dies as a viable political ideology. In my most doomer of moments, I pray that our descendants will have the sense to kill both the actors and the collaborators; we’ve all seen (and will continue to see) what happens when you attempt to reconcile with fascists, it’s how we got where we are now.

How is ethiopia, which has multiple civil wars going on in it right now (Fano, anti-treaty TPLF, ect) less of a failed state than Eritrea or Tanzania?

>Norway is "fascist" while France and Germany are merely "neoliberal"
mmhmm

>>2578345
Yeah, I don’t think the person who made this map understands that the US, for example, is nowhere near as bad as it could (and will) get before the end.

>>2578017
the only grim thing is that 97% of this website has not read any Marx or has a piss poor understanding of him. almost near zero dialectical material analysis is posted. Threads like this also bore me, it's more schopenhauer than marx, at least level up to hegel

>>2578344
this tbh, this year in US politics at least has for me confirmed how prescient Marx's "first as a tragedy, then as a farce" statement is in describing fascism. we're at a point of being many layers removed from there even being any coherent image of nationalism for the far-right to latch onto because we no longer live in a world broadly where geographic borders mean anything, but unfortunately there's still enough of a reserve of temporarily-embarrassed small business owners who were fucked over in the 2000s by the contradictions in capital leading to a decline in the neoliberal western imperial core having any relevance or viability through anything other than the increasingly naked and incompetent exercise of brute force on a third world that has increasingly developed its productive forces. these petit-bourg types who form the base of fascist movements only latch onto an image of nationalism because they've seen it in media and feel justified to be bad now, like it's very obvious that none of them actually believe in any of this shit and that it's all a big cope about how the old world is dying.

unfortunately it's also happening at enough of a pivotal point in history that the extinction burst fascist tantrum could succeed in dragging the rest of the world down with it.

So then what is Fiji?

>>2578017
just admit you couldn't go through all of africa, cuck

>>2578017
none of those central asian countries are anti-imperialist

>>2578328
Because it is Socialist; do you really think its in the same camp as China??
To my understanding they still have a planned economy and largely run the economy to benefit the workers.
>>2578330
Cuba is Socialist but as for Africa all across the belt you've had the Russians tip over the local french puppet governments and put in their own complient neo-colonial regiems; most of which are still embroiled in civil war.
It's not something that gets reported on as much in the west but it's a shit show right now.
>>2578336
Belarus still pays lip service to the idea of a socialist international and despite having some market reforms it Lukashenko has attempted to maintain the basic late soviet social safety net.
He works for the workers of the world to at least some extent unlike Putin who is just Russian Chauvinist at this point.

>>2578017
>Africa
Can you be honest and say you have no idea what's going on in the vast majority of African countries?

>>2578579
You said Botswana and Namibia are failed states lmao

>>2578579
>To my understanding they still have a planned economy and largely run the economy to benefit the workers.
They don't even have 5 year plans and they're one of the poorest countries in the world. They have one of the highest infant mortality rates in the word and of one the worse healthcare infrastructure in the world.

>>2578580
>Can you be honest and say you have no idea what's going on in the vast majority of African countries?
This.

>>2578017
Also how in the world is Laos considered Neo-liberal/trending fascist?

>>2578326
>Fascism is just a capitalist planned economy.
if that were really the case, then Lenin's position is that fascism is a prerequisite for socialism. But luckily that isn't the case and this is just your conjecture.

>>2578426
>these petit-bourg types who form the base of fascist movements only latch onto an image of nationalism because they've seen it in media and feel justified to be bad now, like it's very obvious that none of them actually believe in any of this shit and that it's all a big cope about how the old world is dying.
I think this is why I find it more tiring than scary. It’s all so fake and coming from people whose principles change at a moment’s notice depending on what will make them the most comfortable personally/satisfy their innate bloodthirst as Americans. It’s all LARPing at the end of the day, but it will, and is, getting people killed. Occasionally, I still find it in me to get angry with them, but these days I’m mostly bored by fascist posturing because they’re incapable of doing or saying anything new. That doesn’t change the fact that they’ll need to be dealt with, but it lends a new flavor to how pathetic they are. It can’t be stated often enough that these people are fucking losers.
>the extinction burst fascist tantrum could succeed in dragging the rest of the world down with it.
I sincerely hope not. I believe we’ll make it through this moment and see the other side of it.

>>2578682
>That doesn’t change the fact that they’ll need to be dealt with,
O

>>2578670
They were replying to someone who asked why Haiti is in blue

>>2578579
>despite having some market reforms it Lukashenko has attempted to maintain the basic late soviet social safety net.
Belarus is the last 20th style social democracy on the planet, looking at it's political economy. It's large state sector, and fully public welfare state has produced a society of low income inequality, and a strong state.

Lukashenko is a hero for resisting the neoliberal virus, and defending state/public assets from imperialist predators, neoliberal ideologues, and bourgeois conscious insurrectionists.

Arguing over what is fascism is just about the only thing more pointless than arguing over what socialism is.

>>2578017
did you mix up the colors for laos and cambodia anon

>>2578426
>these petit-bourg types who form the base of fascist movements only latch onto an image of nationalism because they've seen it in media and feel justified to be bad now, like it's very obvious that none of them actually believe in any of this shit and that it's all a big cope about how the old world is dying.
>>2578682
>I think this is why I find it more tiring than scary. It’s all so fake and coming from people whose principles change at a moment’s notice depending on what will make them the most comfortable personally/satisfy their innate bloodthirst as Americans. It’s all LARPing at the end of the day, but it will, and is, getting people killed.
I'm in a very cynical mood at the moment, and it's odd today because right-parties say stuff that is kind of fascist, I see it most of all in the U.S. with Homeland Security and ICE, especially this weird HOI IV mod-inspired aesthetic that they put out on social media. But then Mamdani wins (he's also a "socialist") and then he meets Trump in the White House and they have a "productive conversation about lowering the cost of living for New Yorkers." It still falls back on that technocratic, apolitical and non-ideological framework when they do "politics."

It throws people who read a lot of ideology into these people for a spin. A lot of younger people change ideology so often because it's all memes. You change your ideology when the memes become cringe. Look at the ideologies adopted by 99 percent of people on any side. Marxist-Leninist. Catholic Integralist. Leftcom (Italian), Leftcom (Dutch-German), l/r/e/u/acc. Classical Fascist. NatSoc. SocDem. SocLib. AnCom. AnCap. It's hard to discern the actual positions between them that's either not that far removed from the center-left or center-right, or if edgier than that is not just contrarianism.

>>2578788
>Arguing over what is fascism is just about the only thing more pointless than arguing over what socialism is.
Well since you mentioned it. I've been reading a book about fascism (a comparative history of German and Italian fascism), and just watched this 1974 Italian documentary comprised of footage from the fascist period there. I wanted to know what the actual fuck was this shit. A big theme in Italian fascism was an attempt by these self-proclaimed revolutionary ultra-nationalists to break Italy out of complacency, frivolity, and trying to just change Italy (and the Italian people) from this circus of goofballs into an ascetic, muscular, militaristic (and ultra-modern too) ROMANI IMPERII. They had a slogan that went: BELIEVE, OBEY, FIGHT. ᴉuᴉlossnW would give these speeches that were very theatrical and he'd say "Comrades, I am here before you on this sacred day…"

They never really defined the ideology and ᴉuᴉlossnW's frustrations with actually getting Italians to *do* what he wanted them to do is a whole fascinating story in itself. But they tried to construct a new political religion based on their own "myth" of themselves. Be willing to sacrifice yourself. And very much an image that Italy was "on the move." The fascist gerarchi (hierarchs) would stage photo ops of them literally running to work in the morning. "Yes, at once, Federal Inspector!" It was all very 1930s.

I see some of this stuff with Trump. "Fight!" And NEVER BEFORE HAS AMERICA BEEN IN A GOLDEN AGE LIKE RIGHT NOW… THANKS TO ME!!!!" But Trump is also really lazy.

>>2578579
Dawg how did you label 80% of Africa as failed state but think Haiti doesn't fall into that category? By that standard Haiti is a failed state

Also what's bleak (but tragically funny too) is that some people who post here would have TOTALLY fallen for Italian fascism if they lived during that time. That's okay though, a lot of people did. Namely people who see things mainly as a struggle between "have" states and "have-not" states because Italians played up this whole "proletarian nation" thing and wanted to revise the world order and balance of power (although ᴉuᴉlossnW largely preferred to work within the European system at the same time), because Italy was a second-rate power in relation to Britain and France. And Germany too but Germany was down bad after WWI.

But that's part of where this whole emphasis on "will" and "determination" came from. They wanted to double down and GET MOVING in order to level Italy up to challenge Britain and France.

Italy also had fairly good relations with the USSR for awhile even though "fascist" was a term of abuse in the communist world. Fascist Italy built warships for the Soviets and regularly hosted Soviet art exhibitions in Italy. ᴉuᴉlossnW also liked FDR winning in 1932 more than Hitler. It wasn't until a few years later that relations with the U.S. really fell off when he invaded Ethiopia.

>>2578825
Italy would have been fine if it didn't do the retarded LARP of trying to recreate the Roman Empire through African colonies and chose to side with the USSR as its backer and not Hitler(ᴉuᴉlossnW didn't believe in that aryan shit and IIRC he mainly allied with Germany out of practical reasons as they could have crushed a lone Italy in 1 millisecond). But then again if there wasn't any retarded LARP it wouldn't be fascism anymore

>>2578345
>Even socialist countries have property rights.

funny how mls can't see the contradiction of a so called "socialist country" still having property and rights

>>2578017
Remove the dark blue and green entirely. Make the light blue "socdem leaning". Make dark red "ᴉuᴉlossnW inspired". And make some failed states in Africa light red instead. And you got ther truest map of the world.

People here really think that fascism is when the government politician says mean things.

>>2578017
I wonder what the maker of this map thinks about the uncolored states (Belize, Zyprus, Luxembourg, the European Microstates, Taiwan, the pacific Island states, Lesotho, Eswatini, …)

Wannabe-fascists? Failed Third-Worldist state?

>>2578426
it wasnt marx who said that lol

>>2578885
damn i thought it was all hegel
i stand corrected

>>2578017
Comrade, we find ourselves in the decades where nothing happens. Fascism is on the rise, yes, but it will not take hold of our world until the next great imperialist war does first (roughly 10-15 years left for it). Until then, international communism must reinvent itself, ask every single question a second time and answer them all over again, and prepare to face the storm. It is never over until every last man on this earth has had his blood go cold.

>>2578664
This is the case and why I vote social-fascist, the historically progressive path.

>>2578825
>Also what's bleak (but tragically funny too) is that some people who post here would have TOTALLY fallen for Italian fascism
Even you fell for socdems like Fetterman. That is the same situation that people who fell for Mussolino felt like. ᴉuᴉlossnW final moments was thinking he should've done what Franco did instead of putting all his eggs in Hitler and the Nazis

>>2578706
This.

>>2578825
>a struggle between "have" states and "have-not" states because Italians played up this whole "proletarian nation" thing
Fascism is all about taking socialist ideas and dressing them up in idealist nonsense. Lenin recognized the existence of oppressed and oppressor nations, Marx and Engels wrote about "bourgeois nations". ᴉuᴉlossnW taking the idea and making it about how "some nations have strong muscular workers lifting sacks of grain and others have effiminate bankers" doesn't discredit the idea, it only discredits ᴉuᴉlossnW himself.

>calling north korea socialist
>calling all nordic countries fascist
breh

this entire thread is beyond retarded. this is what map games do to your brain?

why the fuck is colombia the same color as venezuela? because the left-leaning candidate won the elections? and what happens 4 years from now?

elections don't change the material conditions, a capitalist country is a capitalist country regardless of bourgeois democracy. does this mean that colombia is in the same category, or should be considered to have the same position as argentina or bolivia? in broad terms yes, although the fact that there is a left-leaning president there does change things a little, it isn't a fundamental distinction

there are only two colors in the modern world: the countries where the capitalists are the dominant class and the countries where they are not. at most you could argue for a third category of countries where the local capitalists holds more power than foreign capitalists (russia, for example), but the lesson of the 20th century is that bourgeois nationalism always capitulates, so even then the situation won't hold for long

>>2579273
Columbia is literally a fascist state too its been at war with the ELN since the 60's.

Donald Trump is surely a fascist

>>2579272
both are true albeitever