/leftypol/ - Leftist Politically Incorrect

the fact you care enough to make a thread suggests not.
fundamentally, to be one would require you were capable of not caring about that opinion - just as you don't care what i have for dinner today. if you can't do that, you will inevitably find yourself being turned against communists of a different view. your position here will metastasize until it takes over your brain.

this happens time and time again. look at the Scottish National Party: since the 1980s it has been a monolithic bloc, insanely disciplined, focused purely on securing Scottish independence. It rose from nothing to become the Scottish government in 2007, and secured a referendum in 2014 which it lost (but improved support dramatically). From 2014 to 2023 they were completely dominant in Scottish politics… and then the UK became "TERF Island".
As a cynical political ploy, the UK government vetoed a pro-trans Scottish Government law on spurious grounds. This was the first time a Scottish law had ever been vetoed, and the veto was used again shortly afterwards for a bottle recycling scheme. The Scottish government sued. What did the anti-trans Scottish nationalists do?
Naturally, they opposed the Scottish Government, which was run by their own party! When the Supreme court basically said "lol, deal with it, Scotland isn't sovereign and just became part of England 300 years ago" what did they do? They supported the supreme court. Why? Because their anti-trans brainworms were substantially more powerful than their Scottish nationalist sympathies, despite the fact they were all lifelong Scottish nationalists until this came up. The fact that the supreme court had reached a disastrous decision for Scottish nationalists meant nothing to them because it made a wonderful decision for transphobes.

unless you're confident that you're built different, that you don't care and can shut the fuck up, you're not welcome. not because you're anti-trans, but because you're a liability in waiting.

>>2580456
hes 100% right. anti trans sentiment is easily coopted by extremists

Just stop using twitter and dumb ideas like that won't keep popping up.

>>2580456
i choose the example because scottish nationalism has a fairly trivial and unambigous goal: more autonomy for scotland, culminating in independence. scottish nationalists cheering the diminishing of scottish autonomy (without abandoning the pretense of scottish nationalism) shows you that something has clearly gone terribly wrong.
substitute "marxism" for "scottish nationalism" and you should hopefully see the illustrative purpose of the exercise: a once disciplined party and movement was suddenly poisoned by the UK government introducing this wedge issue, and the side most eager to betray the cause was the anti-trans side. (and this is in a movement much more disciplined than any modern western marxist org has ever been - what chance do you think you have?)

the proletariat, incidentally, backed scottish independence overwhelmingly.

>>2580469
what the proletariat wants is not what the proletariat needs and the reason Scottish Nationalists broke under the narrowest pretense was because it was always a reactionary political FASHION STATEMENT *waiting* for an excuse to be broken unlike the real movement, which is eternal RAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAGGGGGGGGGGHHHHHHHHHHHHHH

>>2580483
1. scottish nationalism is a progressive movement in the UK context, akin to a much lamer version of Irish nationalism rather than to most European nationalisms.
2. were your theory correct the SNP would've balkanized decades before taking power, or shortly after taking power, or after losing the independence referendum… and yet!
3. the proletariat has no need for people who become distracted with inane side issues pushed by bourgeois politicians and weird yankee christians.

>>2580463
it's not just that it's also that the trans movement and, yes, the queer movement generally are radical recouperist pressure valves that give the false impression of gradual improvement even though it's just shifting social and political capital around + the steady and expected annual growth in the organic composition of capital

>>2580499
your model does not fit with observed facts post-2024.
if there's supposed to be an impression of gradual improvement, why have both the UK and US governments taken a reactionary turn? if it's all just posturing that can be waited out, why have corporations generally gone along with it?
i have a better model for you: because the progress really was a response to bottom up pressure, but as it became clear that these movements wouldn't be content with token gestures, the carrot gave way to the stick.

>>2580436
Yes you can. [Insert idpol here] has nothing to do with socialism.

>>2580505
No and that's precisely why not. You have to shed the bourgoise culture war and focus on economics to be a communist. If you can't organize because certain other kinds of proles are icky to you then you're useless.

>>2580503
>durrrrrr what's a capital crisis?

+ obviously meme movements don't die when they satisfy their constituency, they die when another meme movement comes along like, for instance, either side of the trans issue. My position is a full break + radical indifference on the part of the communists and that's easy to do considering it's not my genitals on the line and I rather like most queer people

>>2580520
your arguments would be more convincing if you gave the impression of even a passing familiarity with scottish nationalism.
(crucially: they're not actually dead, just severely wounded, because they didn't split 50/50. a small group of wreckers engaged in severe wrecking.)
moreover: britain had another meme movement, Brexit, and that did comparatively minimal damage despite being given massive prominence from 2016-20. your sociology is terrible.

if you can indulge radical indifference that's great. if you want everyone else to be radically indifferent while you run your mouth, go away.

>>2580505
yeah well "socialism" is a middle class movement

yeah just keep it to yourself, I also believe cutting off your jhonson or boobs or implanting a fake meat jhonson into your poonani is a sign of deep mental unwellness but it doesn't really affect the struggle of the working class so I stay quiet about it.

let them eat the estrogen/testosterone and mutilate themselves, just let them.

Yes you can be a communist while having bigoted opinions. Do you think the people involved in the Russian Revolution would have the exact same opinions as a modern blue hair ? Bigotry is harmful to the working class movement because it hurts working class unity, but it is not fatal. Nevertheless we strive to eliminate it.

>>2580436
why do transgenders pop up across different cultures? if they can just be taught to stop being transgender why would so many cultures let them be

At least in my country, there's undoubtedly more trans people living openly like that now than in the past. But we don't live in a society where 90% of the population are family farmers in which your wife having 9 kids is a matter of necessity and survival out on a homestead. That's what the country was like in 1820 but those days are long gone.

Capitalism has undermined traditional family structures and also separated procreation from sexuality to an extent. It's actually at the same time that modern capitalism has created a large population of wage laborers that it also freed people up to form distinct communities who organize their personal lives around a sexual or gender identity. I think automation is also reducing the gendered division of labor in the society compared to the more male-heavy, labor-intensive, elbow-grease industrial workforce from 100 years ago.

Also think about medical advancements and what future medical advancements and biotechnology will enable people to do to their bodies.

>>2580631
>why would so many cultures let them be
Those cultures hadn't yet been westernized into thinking they needed to stop people from being trans.

Yes, but you probably deserve to suffer.

>>2580631
>>2580645
You can do this little exercise with literally any mental illness, kys. And you don't actually know anything firsthand about the standpoints of different cultures and if you did you wouldn't ever be able to properly square it vis-a-vis the western monoculture because you're sissy faggot retards in that particular way only otherwise smart people can be. Everyone outside the cult can see it. You can't. You're probably literally being cointelpro'd too.

>>2580436
>Can I still be a communist if I think blah blah blah I don't want blah blah I swear
"Me me me me me me me" that's individualism. it doesn't matter what you think or whether a bunch of losers on an imageboard try to gatekeep you from calling yourself a word, nor do your particular opinions on social issues stop you from participating in the real movement.

>>2580818
That's a whole lot of vibes and not a hint of materialism. If you read Marx and Stirner you wouldn't give a shit and would just go to an org and just let the scary tankie transhumanists tell you what is needed and do it.

>>2580436
Here's a question for you OP, if I'm a transhumanist (I am) and you told me you think I should "learn to accept my birth sex" the same thing told to me by MAGA Republicans, and you think I'm being "conned into mutilating myself to pad big pharma and the service economy" why would I have a positive opinion of you and why would I not find you repugnant and a harmful person trying to spread ideas aimed at fucking up my life? Do you genuinely think these ideas you just posted in the OP would make my life better if I went along with them, or do you just not give a shit about me and don't care if my life is miserable and suicide inducing? My experience with people like you leads me to believe it's the latter, so how exactly are you different?

How can you be a communist if you use superficial judgments and right wing talking points to paint me personally and people like me in a negative light, then go thinking I should consider you some great communist? Communist is a high bar so why would I view you positively on the side of liberating the working class when you've decided a non-trivial number of them are either personally or indirectly needing to get their lives fucked up by your policies you just proposed?

I think you lack basic kindergarten level empathy, and an actual material understanding of transgender people, so I think you're just of stupid and not likely to be some great communist.

Basically OP you want to talk about trans people in the third person as an outsider group, and to find other people in this thread who believe things about this group that are practically exclusively believed by people who are not a member of that group. Can you explain and give a good justification for why this is a useful thing for a supposed communist to do, and how this helps achieve communism in any way? To mislead the majority into believing lies about a minority that harm that minority and therefore cause a contradiction in yourself that makes you incapable of wholly advocating on behalf of the working class?

If someone is advocating for a trans workers, this shit you said in the OP is going to make them quickly realize you're just trying to fuck up their lives

If someone is advocating for you or other workers with reactionary believes like you, is this a deal breaker, that a communist they support has to also want trans peoples lives to get fucked up by those policies you advocated? Why? And why are you incapable of researching the material conditions of trans workers and explaining to transphobic cis workers why their reactionary beliefs are backwards?

I can answer why, it's because you yourself have not done this research and actually maintain these vestigial reactionary beliefs yourself, so you are incapable of uniting trans workers with transphobic cis workers, against the bourgeoisie

So how is this a useful stance to take?

It isn't, and it just shows that you aren't a serious person and you aren't behaving intelligently. Stop being a dumbass.

>>2580850
holy fucking reddit. yeah superficial judgements unlike you the superior empath making outright textually incorrect judgements and also
>no argument

And yes, I do think this is necessary and will make people generally, and even you, better. Better people who don't type like…….. that(Rule 11 - low-quality posting)

>>2580860
You're OP? Your response is garbage and actually worse than I expected. As predicted I don't see a single answer to any of the questions I asked you. So basically, you're a dumbass

>>2580859

that reaction image is malebrained and AGP at the same time

>>2580436
>could, would
Mods, ban this voluntarist NOW!

>>2580862
All I see is a lot of crying dressed up in low quality "muh material conditions" slop posting, and identifying transhumanistess with weak beaten-up fuckups is informed by genuine lived experience around them and by their own admission frequently.

>Their barbarous superficial judgements vs. Our glorious lives experience

>>2580436
First, you have to materialistically prove how modern transgenders and their individuality is a capitalist pathology like the psyche of the rest of the individuals. If it is so, then in communism there organically will be no transgenders or not as much as now. The trans question will solve itself in communism then.

>>2580884 (le me)
Therefore your primary concern must be le communism.

OP should be permabanned really.

>>2580883
>"muh material conditions" slop posting
You went to a materialist board and asked if you could be a communist, something that requires you be a materialist, and then openly reject materialism.

OP is half right half wrong

>>2580912
go on.

I'm back bitche

The real movement IS GOING to thread the needle between regarding transhuman-ness as false consciousness convenient to capital and not having its rhetoric be captured by the bourgeoisie and used as pretense for mass murder when Raytheon has a bad quarter. I will be back with more ammo and a clearer thesis. FULL BREAK FULL BREAK FULL BREAK FROM THE LEFT WING OF CAPITAL SOCIAL *AND* ECONOMIC

>>2580889
>but you can't prove it
all you have to do is peek at /lgbt/ and see all the threads daydreaming about them being tradwives in a wheat field after the day of the rope has removed all the shitskins

>>2580993
What? What are you talking about?

>>2580993
nice divide and conquer fed, /lgbt/ does have plenty of mental illness and is representative of transhumanists but not like that

>>2581065
*the failings of

transhumanists

>OP starts by vagueposting, promises they don't want to do a holocaust about it
>slowly drifts towards arguing his transphobic case more and more, less and less emphasis on his purported socialist/communist sympathies.
>claims he's going to "thread the needle" on "false consciousness convenient to capital", made no engagement whatsoever with the point that post-2024, capital is unambiguously moving in the other direction. despite not engaging here, is clearly angling for an argument because what he really wants to do is argue about transgenderism rather than talk about communism.
The Joanna Cherry of Anonymous. Total >>2580443 vindication.

>>2581087
It has been barely ONE SINGULAR YEAR niqqa the pendulum can easily swing the other way again. Acting like you won't go full throttle on transhumanism again in three years when America and her *toys* paint themselves blue. Acting like your whole leftoid ass isn't hanging out. FULL. BREAK.

but yeah maybe I'm being too singularly obsessed rn. still kys tho

>>2581137
watch total war on south america be declared tomorrow keeeeeeeeekkkkkkk

>can i be a communist if [american retardbabble]
No. Look forward to getting raped by transfolx from the 7th Neo Red Guards division. Hope this helps