I'm probably going to get jumped but uh regardless, I'm feeling very frustrated because a lot of the more far left people i listen to keep saying to stop supporting stuff like DSA and junk and move to something more radical. but then they don't offer anything more radical, so we're just stuck in this feedback loop and i feel frustrated because i genuinely want to help. They keep saying that my arguments for not working on non-viable stuff is flawed but then they don't offer any alternatives and it's driving me up the wall. My main hope is that if a Dem Teaparty goes off, we can work on building actual space for third parties post trump. But I'm struggling on ways to do that, if any of you have any basic starter groups for a noobie demsoc like me please let me know. I wouldn't be here if i wasn't desperate
i do believe the DSA is good, but it's not good to convert the dems or push the dems into progressive policies, that is absurd. rather it's good because you can affiliate yourself with dem unions and dem groups which can later help you and that you can radicalize. you should join DSA's leftest groups and work with them, shrimple as, of course this will depend on where you live but even if you end up in a more moderate enviroment it wont hurt. In the end there is only so much an individual can do, just do your part.
There is nothing wrong necessarily with joining the DSA. America is in a unique position where the labor movement has not fully formed and the bourgeois democratic system is so threadbare and simplified, since America has not really had the liberal revolutionary reforms of say, western Europe. You must however realise that the DSA cannot be a vanguard party. You need a movement first before a vanguard and the movement doesn't exist yet. Only vague desires for treats and reform. But out of the DSA can come a real workers movement that does desire some radical change.
>>2588894Why limit your criterion for an org. to join or support to those that are confined to the U.S.? The communist movement is weak internationally, and a 1$ usd goes far further in many a third world country then it does in yours. Hell it goes farther even in most of Eastern Europe.
>>2588898Im within texas so it's really hard to find any real groups to work with, hell i don't even know if i'm willing to full on radicalize people. But i'll try and just help where i can.
>>2588900That's one of the main issues i'm struggling with, i want to try and help start building a movement but i have no idea how.
>>2588905I've been donating to charties for places like gaza and sudan, so i'll see what i can do.
the DSA has plenty of problems but if they are the only org in your area i would recommend joining. most locals got some solid people in there you can atleast work with to educate others
>>2588913>i want to try and help start building a movement but i have no idea how.You need to know what you're talking about first. You need to learn how revolutions were conceptualised, fought and won. Lenin did not found the party he joined. He joined a social democratic party that itself was a collection of several socialist organisations, many with their own aims and views. Some very reformist, some very utopian and idealist, some centred on specific ethnic groups. Lenin founded the Bolshevik caucus that pushed for hardline centralist leadership with very literal tolerance for liberalism of any kind. Be Lenin.
>>2588894From what I know the DSA is not even a party or anything, it just serves as a subsidiary to the democratic party and warms up left leaning populists for them. Why are you so chained to the democrats anon? Aren't there parties working outside the duopoly already?
>>2588894>supporting stuff like DSA and junk and move to something more radicalthose arent mutually exclusive, support dsa when they do good stuff or can take power against worse people, but dont limit yourself to it or refrain from criticism
>>2588922They cannot be a "party". Every communist party in the US for the past like 100 years has used the same strategy the DSA is currently using. You use a democrat ticket to get elected officials. It's not a simple "vote blue" strategy.
>>2588900>You need a movement first before a vanguard and the movement doesn't exist yet.This is categorically false. If you wait for the mass workers movement to form a vanguard, it is already too late. OP if you are interested in something more radical than DSA, you should look into the Revolutionary Communists of America.
>>2588926>RCADon't be silly. I don't even hate the RevComs, they're well read and well organised. But in practical terms they do nothing. They're flag wavers with no praxis.
>>2588927RCA is not revcoms, that is another party.
>>2588929Either you're talking about the trotskyists, which I was referring to. Or the Maoists who have worse organisation and again, is a small group compared to the DSA.
>>2588930Yes the Trotskyist party is the one I am talking about. Quantity does not equal quality. DSA is a big tent org that has a broad spectrum of members spanning from the liberal reformist to genuine Marxist. It is quite clear which wing wins out based on their tactics and leadership figures.
>>2588925How's that strategy been working?
Why are there so many stupid threads today? The “why is no one dick sucking muh bourgeois colluding succdem party” thread is last kind of thread I want to see in general.
>>2588953this board broke OPs brain
if DSA is the only thing where he is then he should join it, being part of an org is better than sitting on here
>>2588955>being part of an org is better than sitting on hereThat's highly debatable
>>2588953Im mainly just trying to avoid that and looking for alternatives.
>>2588958is it? Are you making material change here? The smaller DSA chapters dont generally focus on electoralism.
He could find comrades there to work with and help his local community. He then could take the true radicals from his local and split when we have an actual workers party here
>>2588963it will also give him organizing experience which he can take elsewhere.
>>2588913>Im within texas so it's really hard to find any real groups to work withI'd also check out YALL (Young Active Labor Leaders) if u in TX
>>2588960Here’s the alternative: you do things solo, and work to develop the conditions for a true worker’s party to arise. Not a coopted cesspool, nor a glorified book club that couldn’t even reach sect status before it gets raided by the fbi.
>>2588963>>2588963>>2588971You’re not doing this in Texas unless you figure out the inevitable transportation you’ll have to face there.
>>2588894You're just hearing noise and bullshit from the internet. The DSA is just where all the serious left-wingers including full blown communists go to actually work together and do real things. If you ACTUALLY GO to the DSA you'll find radical communists littered about because of course they would be. They just have the name "democratic socialist" but they're filled with communists. Just ask anyone who's actually gone.
>>2588979> you do things soloenough of this cowboy shit, collective action is the only solution. one man cannot do anything. you cant just shut yourself in and read theory all day you have to talk to the people
>>2588989>enough of this cowboy shitToo bad buckeroo, you’ll be getting only cowboy shit until YOU lay down the ground work for something other than cowboy shit.
>collective action is the only solutionAnd yet you can’t do that.
>one man cannot do anythingConsider your status as FUCKED then.
>you have to talk to the peopleAnd how are you going to do that, cowboy?
>>2588992>And how are you going to do that, cowboy?by going outside and potentially joining some sort of org.
i dont care if its the DSA, some mutual aid group, or even a reading club. any of those is better than sitting inside and posting on here
with those connections you make outside working and talking with others you could use for when a real workers movement and party comes around
>>2588995>by going outsideWith what means partner?
>and potentially joining some sort of org.A gathering of lambs you mean.
>any of those is better than sitting inside and posting on hereChoose to be herded than stay in hiding is a choice.
>with those connections you make outside working and talking with others you could use for when a real workers movement and party comes aroundThose connections are for stranglin, not spreadin
>>2588997you are a retard that will never make material change on this earth
you will never taste the pear
>>2588999No counters, straight to the slurs. Hm.
>>2589004TBF the other guy isn't making that good of arguments either.
>>2589006no hes making excuses for his fat ass to stay home troll on here while waiting for door dashed tendies
>>2589006Well that’s because they’re being more inquisitive than argumentative.
>>2589007You haven’t answered my question. With what means will you be going “outside”?
>>2589007>>2589006>>2589004>>2588999Yall please just shut the fuck up and find your local DSA chapter and actually interact with people in real life. Stop trying to be the most perfect radical leftist or whatever and actually interact with real people to move the ball forward.
https://www.dsausa.org/chapters/The search is right there. Shit or get off the pot
>>2589015No one is paying gas money to go join a bourgeois controlled opposition party.
>>2589016Kill yourself faggot
>>2589024On rare occasions
>>2589029For your bourgeois occupied den of counter revolution? Absolutely not.
>>2589032as people have said it doesnt have to be the DSA go join up with some anarchists and hand out leaflets on bicycles
literally anything, and i mean anything is better than what you are doing
>>2589034In America?
>>2589036>anarchists>hand out leaflets on bicycles In America?
>i mean anything is better than what you are doingIt’s not. It’s not productive, it’s just a selfish denial of reality to make you feel better about yourself.
So then what would be productive in your opinion?
>>2589039ive sat down for beers with more people and explained them dialectical materialism than people you have even spoken too
educating normal offline people is a start
>>2589041Figuring out the logistics of getting the proletariat onto the streets and into worker parties is going to be more productive than handing out pamphlets in one of the most care centric countries on the planet during the digital, end of story.
>>2589043>educating normal offline people is a startOf a circle, yeah.
>>2589047How is educating normal people a waste of time?
>>2589091Because the sufficiently educated are in abundance already and only need to be tapped into, and because I know your beer sit downs lead only to a looping cycle. A looping cycle of procrastination and mingling.
>>2589094how is that worse than sitting around posting on here eating tendies?
and generally once people are educated they want to learn more and then teach others
>>2589094>the sufficiently educated are in abundance already and only need to be tapped intosay you arent american without saying it. most americans read at a 6th grade level. it is a nation that is proud of its cult of ignorance. the only politcal philosophy people here follow are the various flavors of liberalism that cable news and now podcasts offer
>>2589101Lowk we really just need to fix education and ecology and maybe some healthcare and we can begin a recovery, hopefully build to a multipolar world
>>2589101>say you arent american without saying it. You’re the one talking about drinking beers in this economy.
>most americans read at a 6th grade level. You don’t meet the average American, period.
>>2589100>how is that worse than sitting around posting on here eating tendies?Because you would be deluding yourself, which is worse than “nothing”.
>and generally once people are educated they want to learn more and then teach othersNot necessarily.
>>2589115>we really just need to fix education and ecology and maybe some healthcare and we can begin a recoveryNot that simple, at all.
>hopefully build to a multipolar worldYou mean a stateless world.
>>2589123Please educate us on how to get people out there then and what parties to join/make
>>2589129>Please educate us on how to get people out there thenFirst lesson: Stop deluding yourself with activities such as “handing out pamplets”. The proletariat currently requires actual material assistance in movement building, not more education they can’t actually put into practice.
Second lesson: American is a decaying car centric dystopian hellhole police state that is undergoing ever increasing levels of enshittification and financialization. The many cities and towns of America are not designed for the proletarian majority, but rather for capital and capitalist decadence. Think Dubai for an alternate example.
Third lesson: Any efforts to organize the proletariat will be met with an uphill battle against a system that has long locked down the mobility of its “citizens”. It has turned the very landscape into a weapon against the proletariat, a weapon that has only grown more damaging with every year.
Fourth lesson: If one wishes to have any chance at succeeding, they must become self sufficient against the capitalist fuel trade and expand that self sufficiency to the rest of the proletariat. So long as the capitalists dominate it without sufficient competition, your mobility and your opportunities in the American landscape will be greatly limited. Whether this self sufficiency comes in the form of solar cars or socialized fuel stations, I do not know. But what I do know is that it is mandatory step any American communist must take.
Fifth lesson: You will also need to turn these bourgeois weaponized road against the bourgeois forces themselves. This means cutting their support networks. This means isolating them from the proletariat while the proletariat rebuilds their circles. This means ruling the roads while they cower in their shitty little dens. It need not be spoken on how easy a task this will be.
>and what parties to joinForget about joining a party. The FBI and the CIA were too thorough with their work. Trust none of them.
>makeRead the communist manifesto
https://www.marxists.org/archive/marx/works/1848/communist-manifesto/ >>2588913For Sudan, see if you can get a hold of the Sudanese Communist Party. They desperately need funds given the catastrophic circumstances in the country.
Try looking at solidnet for contact info. Alternatively, try getting a hold someone from the KKE that might be able to act as liaison (They definitely have foreign based cells in New York for example).
>>2589188>Just be a sophist and travel around telling individual proles about the book you read and surely they'll be instantly convinced and the revolution will happen that wayAnarchist schizophrenia and literal idealist bullshit. You have to do things in an organized, democratic, centralized manner. With hierarchy. And real power. An actual monopoly on violence within your jurisdiction. You must create your own communist controlled state by either welding a ready made state or replacing it entirely with your own.
There is no other choice. It has been done elsewhere, and it will be done in America as well. But there is a distance between point A and point B that you cannot teleport past. You must traverse it. Swallow your pride and grow up. Interact with people you disagree with on the specifics to actually help people.
>>2589200>Just be a sophist and travel around telling individual proles about the book you read and surely they'll be instantly convinced and the revolution will happen that wayLiterally none of this has anything to do with my post, but okay wrecker.
>Anarchist schizophrenia and literal idealist bullshit. You are one of the last people on earth who should be saying this. Stop shitting up the threads you glowing ass succdem.
>>2589205>Don't join any parties>Vague paranoid suggestions for praxis>Calling me the wreckerK bud.
>>2589200>>2589205Right, well, im probably gonna join up with my locals groups like you said and spread the ideas you mentioned here where I can. Thanks guys.
I am a do-nothing internet guy and I would never in a million years shit on people who are actually doing things.
I don't know why some of you faggots have the gall to do that. It's really not hard to be humble even on the internet.
>>2589217Yeah you should do that, man. At least get out there and see for yourself. And don't start with a splinter group or whatever the most "radical" sounding one is, because you'll just be surrounded by ineffectual impotent nerds who couldn't keep a lid on it (no social skills). Just go to the damn DSA and you'll see it's fine. And if you
really can't stand it then whatever at least you tried and you should then join another org and maybe you'll feel more motivated there
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