>Wants the Party to lead the revolution
So far so good
>Wants to establish councils/re-establish multiparty elections within the scope of socialism once the revolution abolishes capitalism
So far so good
>Wants to be worldwide so that the bourgeoisie can't establish itself somewhere else
So far so good
What's actually wrong with them ? Seems pretty consistent desu
>inb4 look at what they did during the 20/21th century!!!
The ML actions don't seem to have been this excellent too
Primarily entryism (not even for demsoc parties but socdem parties) and an utter refusal to collaborate with socialists who are tolerant of the "degenerate workers state" that was the USSR etc. The fact is Trotskyism has evolved from the views of Trotsky himself and has become a sort of left anti-communism. Many Trots are perfectly fine in my eyes and I say that as someone who thinks Stalin was pragmatic, but it is dogma mostly that makes them hard to work with.
ML objections to Trotsky's critiques are really silly when they make the exact same criticisms but simply shift the blame from Stalin to Khruschev. Ironically "anti-revisionist" MLs were more guilty of what they accused Trotsky of. Trotsky criticized the USSR but never said it ceased to be socialist or was no longer worthy of support (especially in a war with Germany). "Anti-revisionist" MLs meanwhile were going much farther than this and accusing the USSR of no longer being socialist, being a "social imperialist" power, no better than the US, etc.
>>2591284So in essence they encapsulate the problem with left-wing puritanism and niche ideologies ?
>>2591286spot on
>>2591294>they encapsulate the problem with left-wing puritanism and niche ideologies ? This is precisely the problem with modern trotskyism.
>>2591298It's not a problem unique to Trotskyism at all though.
>>2591300Of course not, but that's not the topic of discussion. Most "mainstream" Marxist Leninist parties are not dogmatically anti-trotskyist. But most Trotskyist movements are dogmatically anti "Stalinist".
>>2591302That's been my experience as well, but there are more hardline ML parties that very much exhibit the same thinking as Trotskyists.
>>2591305>but there are more hardline ML parties that very much exhibit the same thinking as Trotskyists.Yes and they are a stain on the wider movement. The CPGB-ML for example is notorious for telling its membership to disrupt marxist bookclubs and discussion groups organised by trotskyist organisations. It's ghost-worship. 90 year old wannabe nostalgia.
because trots are objectively anticommunist
they're killing the planet with 10,000 student newspapers nobody will ever read. they think you can create communism just by infiltrating soc dem parties. they don't have any real criticisms of USSR economic policy, only that they'd do what stalin did but somehow magically better.
That said, I think trotsky said a lot of true things and any Marxist who doesn't read him is an ideologically irredeemable idiot - the ML obsessive foaming at the mouth about him is boring, braindead and cringe.
All in all it's his modern followers who are the worst thing about him.
Not much, I’m an ML but I would rather work with them than isolate myself
Split split split split split split split
>>2591457Tbh there was only one split in communist history that really mattered in the grand scheme of things, and it wasn't Trots who were responsible.
>>2591280It's more about the extremely negative experiences people have with trot parties, tbh.
>>2591280Beyond constantly splitting over everything when they supposedly agree with democratic centralism, the main problem was Trotsky. He was supported by the capitalist west because he constantly spread anti-Stalin and anti-USSR propaganda, tried to stir up terrorism inside the USSR and even advocated breaking up the USSR right after Nazi invasion of Czechoslovakia. All because his ego couldn't handle being exiled and he needed to be in charge.
After he finally died Trotskyist parties were just anti-USSR communists that capitalists let hang around in order to split the movement as much as possible and they have been easily ignored ever since.
>>2591280The reason trotskyism appeared in the first place is because it was a wrecker group that undermined the role of the party as the command center of the working class and believed that socialist construction in the Soviet Union was impossible. No wonder westoids loved it so much.
The only thing wrong with Trotskyism is that it is Stalinism without Stalin.
They oppose Stalin's character rather than the historical line of reformist deviation that he represented in order to cope with the failure of world revolution
Trotskyism alone is too narrow and stubborn
Islamic Trotskyism is the future of humanity
>>2591302Most mainstream Marxist Leninist parties support NATO against Russian imperialism
https://www.solidnet.org/article/Urgent-Joint-Statement-of-Communist-and-Workers-Parties-No-to-the-imperialist-war-in-Ukraine/And then internet "MLs" have the nerve to disagree with that and accuse trotskyists of having niche opinions and being splitters
>>2591856Russia’s actions are purely defensive
>>2591863Yes, but with ulterior motives beyond just "helping russian speaking ukrainians". All capitalist nations have ulterior motives.
>>2591280Functionally there is no difference between them and the Stalinites, especially since their main point of disagreement (the USSR) has been dead for 35 years. Trots and MLs are both constantly splitting, corrosively sectarian, and have had wildly differing opinions on everything.
>>2591863Yeah and the U.S. Navy just defensively made off with a Venezuelan oil tanker.
>>2591286I consider myself a MLoid and agree with anti-revisionists on a lot of things but what you are describing is real, they straight up end up doing great man theory when they say Khrushchev and Deng killed the international communist movement of the 20th century, when it was american imperialism that did that. Its true Khrushchev and Deng did damage it but anti-revisionists end up straight up using them as scapegoats and sweeping for the CIA sometimes.
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